Best Made Weddings®
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTIONS - PART 1

*Please forgive any spelling or typographical errors. Episodes listed in the order they were recorded.

Episode 30 - I Just Got Engaged, Now What? - Photography

Well, thank you guys all so much for coming on. We have Chelsea coming right off of a plane this morning, and we had a Aspen hopping on that. Jamie's and GoPro Jamie's been on both the, I get to know your wedding pro podcast and the best many weddings podcasts to talk before. Thank you guys all so much for coming on today. This is the start of a, kind of a new idea through the best new weddings podcasts, basically saying. So I'm engaged now. What, you know, what should I be doing? I'm going to talk to a bunch of different vendor types. You know, throughout the course of the next, you know, few months about this, but today we're going to start with photography. I just saw, you know, w we see it every week online and other posts. You know, our bride or groom posts in the, in the wedding groups. Hey, we just got engaged. We're looking for a photographer. They get 500 people comment. You know, they get overwhelmed. It's not a good experience for them. It's not a good experience as a way to find photographers or any vendor that you want. So I kind of wanted to hop on today, talk to some real photographers. You know, what is their advice? If you just got engaged and you want to hire a photographer for your wedding, what should you be looking for? What questions should you ask? You know, what should you be thinking about that we're not thinking about? So thank you guys all so much for coming on. Jamie, why don't you introduce yourself? And then we'll go around and we'll get into this. Sure. Hey, I'm Jamie. Oh, Jamie, luckily photography here in Seattle. I do wedding photography to couples. Some midwives. Every now and then. But mainly weddings. And they asked me, what about you? I'm Aspen and I'm asked them today. Photography. I am a California native who relocated to Seattle and primarily do weddings and all things. Couple elopement engagement, all that kind of good stuff. Yeah. Perfect. And Chelsea, what about you? A hot aisle hopping on late. I appreciate it. Hi. So I am from Hawaii. I moved to Seattle three and a half years ago. And I'm still duly based between both which is super fun. I also specialize in weddings and couples, and I'm also a business coach. So I liked that like, I also coach people to do this for their clients and the same thing. So I'm excited about this. And so I think we all, you know, I posted this yesterday online. I said, this is what I'm thinking. Yeah. I think we all kind of know exactly what I'm talking about. Right. Someone gets engaged. They go on, you know, to one of the Facebook groups, are they, you know, they post on their own thing or whatever. Hey, I just got engaged. They get all these people that respond. It's like a race to the bottom. You get all this, you know, competing styles and, and you know, how the people work and all this different stuff. So, first off, I guess we'll start with Chelsea and go back around, you know, when you see these, when you hear this, obviously, you know, I think. I think you guys are all, you know, a little step above, obviously like, right. These, you know, a lot of the people that comment on a lot of these boats, but I think that you guys can give insights to this. So what do you think, you know, when you see these and you hear about these and kind of this like mass overwhelming, when people get engaged and they're looking for photographers, So I feel like it depends on the, so as a couple, if you're going to go post on any of those boards, like, it seems like the right place to start because. Typically, not a lot of people are running around in circles with professional photographers. And so no one really knows what they're doing. It seems like your grade bicycle, because that's where all the photographers are. And. It depends on what you want, so you can do it can end up being a more work and more like overwhelm. Then help sometimes because there's so many people offering so many things, everyone's like, Oh, I'll do it for free. And I'll do for this. And so. Like that's a whole nother conversation about like what you want to choose to invest in, but when you're posting on these groups, A lot of times you don't even get what you ask for. So someone's like, I need someone who's Colorado Bates who can do this, this and this for this much. And also like when you're posting that sometimes, you know, like maybe you've done some research, but oftentimes like most of what I've seen and what I've experienced with a lot of my friends getting engaged and doing this. Before, like talking to me is they're just pulling numbers from Google. And a lot of times the Google like estimates for what people should expect to invest, aren't accurate. Or aren't accurate. For the quality and like be expertise that most people are hoping for for like one of the most important, special, wonderful days of their lives. So posting on those things, if you can try, if you want to like go for it, but know that you are going to get blasted by like so many comments and it's, it's a pretty saturated market, no matter what city you're in, and everyone is willing to go wherever. Like a lot of photographers have like, Oh, I'm Hawaiian, Seattle and worldwide, which. Her mom was going to go worldwide, but that also means travel fee, but also means someone who doesn't, you know, Isn't maybe familiar with your location. So I feel like more so than posting in those groups. You're better off looking at like Google or, you know, I don't love the knot or wedding wire, but those are good listings to see. Who's actually local to where you're going to go. And someone who has at least some experience with either your venue or the weather, or just general things. Like a lot of people come and shoot in Hawaii and don't understand like just basic safety. Like I have a friend who's an Iceland. And people will go and shoot an Iceland and put their clients and themselves, and a lot of really dangerous situations. So I think most of the time. It's better to err, on the side of hiring someone locally and start searching for things that way. Unless you've had your eyes on someone forever, which in which case you probably wouldn't be in that Facebook group anyway. I asked him. What about you? What do you, you know, obviously we all kind of lament over this. So what do you think when you see all these people post and this kind of race to the bottom mentality? Yeah, I actually did this for my sister's wedding. She got married in November. And I feel like it was interesting to be on the other to be a poster. Like I've been both a commenter and a poster. And I think the thing that saved my butt when I was posting is like, my advice is if you're going to do this, which I also am with you, Chelsea. Like. Not the best. Maybe. But if for whatever reason, you're feeling powerful. You want to get a lot of attention really fast? I had cut it off after 10 minutes, because I already had like 45 comments. And it's stacks. And I, you know, there were 200 likes because my sister got married in Cabo and it was a destination wedding. It was a whole thing. She used to super hot. So with her fiance, you know, everyone, they're an interracial couple or sort of we're half we're half. And so that, the whole other thing, but like very desirable for your portfolio. And so. I would just say, if you're gonna post be on it, give it 10, 15 minutes at an Oregon. Like give a comment number that you're willing to go through, because if you just leave it open-ended, I mean, you've all seen them. There's 200 comments. And like you said, Chelsea, 90% of them are not. In the location that you want, or even really eligible to your standards. She wanted, my sister wanted a photographer who had a style similar to mine. And I can't tell you how many people. I didn't even look like. Mine or so I think the other thing that's really interesting. Is when I see these blasts. Now in these posts. As I check more often than not they're for people who are looking for a bargain potentially. Or I could deal with like, Oh, I'm getting married in Cabo and I'm hot. So. I might do my 12 hour wedding for $1,800 and people will do it, but it's, you have to kind of ask yourself, okay, well, what kind of quality is that going to bring to this day? That is. You know, there's no do-overs on this day. And so I think that's the thing that comes to mind is like, if you're going to do it fine, Cut it off very quickly. And. You know, If you're going to do research before, figure out what styles you like and your preference, because not all styles are the same. And see if he can recognize that so that when you're going through those comments, you're finding what you actually want. And not choosing a photographer who is within their right and their style, but ultimately it's not what you want. That's a great point. I want to talk about South to, I want to get Jamie's thoughts on this, and then that's a great topic to bring up for our next questions. Jamie, what do you think about all this stuff? So I think it's kind of a double-edged sword in that I remember in 2012, when I was planning my own wedding. And. Trying to find like it was on to say. Eight years ago. But trying to find a photographer was really difficult because, you know, you went to Google and you searched. Like we got married up in Victoria. So Victoria wedding photographer or Victoria, Canada. And, you know, you went through the first page and you clicked and you went to their website and they went back and he went to that site. And then you're like, okay, I'm done this for an hour. I'm going to go away and come back and you come back and you search it. Well, then you search it again. I get different search results. You're like, Oh, did I already click on this? So it's kind of nice having it in one place. Where it's like. A lazy person's notebook. You just make your posts. You can come back into your post to any time and you can reference it. But at the same time, I do think people just are scrolling through their Facebook and they see this. You know, looking for a photographer. Just say, Hey, I'd love to do it in your way. Address and go away and you didn't even read the post. So I think definitely for people, the more specific you can be. Style how long? I mean, obviously not everyone knows how long they want in the beginning, but roughly. A lot of places won't might you put a price range, which can kind of suck because you can't. Narrow it down that way, but if you can do it. But then what I do cause I, when I refer weddings to other people, I started doing kind of like a capture. Where I'll put, like, if you read this whole post type in with your comment, [unknown] and if nobody puts that in their comment, I'm like, I'm not even going to go on your website. You couldn't follow simple instructions. Take five minutes of your time to read my post. You're done. So that's kind of a good way to winnow it down into people who actually want the job, but like, because they like the seven. Who you are. Versus just people who are scrolling through. Look on our board. I wanted to add to that too, because that's super important, like for you to make sure that someone actually cares about you when they offered to shoot your wedding. And isn't just like, Oh, sick, I'll make a couple grand. It's like exactly. If you don't take. Was anybody here, here just for the money and you really don't actually care about what I'm asking for. So I love that. And that's like, I love doing that too much. Like leave your favorite gift. And then if someone has made a gift. You can tell it's just copy pasted in super generic. Okay, well, path. I think it's really important to like, at least let someone pass that very first biotech. They actually read your book. Even on, you know, there's so many and that's it. We're not going to hit on the Facebook posts all day. Cause I do want to get into like actual stuff, but I do. I totally agree. Cause even the ones cause I do video. And so in a lot of the groups here, there might be 50 photography ones, five one video, one. But even though like the video ones, you'll get these photographers, like I'm available and it's like, you didn't even read, you know, Where it said, you know, video, whatever on there. So, so, so whether you're going to go to Facebook, you're going to post, you're going to look for this stuff or you're going to look otherwise. Would you guys agree that that first and foremost, you know, we get engaged. You need to figure out what, what style you're looking for, right. Is that as photographers, I'm asking this out, like the first question that that couples should be asking or what, what is the first question that a couple should be asking when they're, when they're getting. Engaged with him wanting to look for a photographer. Yeah, I would say it's like, Yes. Style in that, how you want your photos to look. Right. I mean, so. Style. You guys run me through these, right? We have, you know, like documentary, right. A gloomy and brighten their, I don't know why I'm not a photographer, so I'm not at a walk me through some of the styles. And maybe can we define some of those for people that are thinking about, you know, looking for a photographer. Yeah. I'll I'll start. I'll get a couple. And then you guys can fill in, because I think about this a lot, but I think one of the styles that I see a lot is. I would say. Like there's the Brighton NRE, which that covers a lot, but it's, it's the more colorful and in my mind, a lot of times that lends itself to be more pink. Which I'm sure we, as photographers can see, but maybe a client might not be able to notice, but it's typically more, much more bold colors. And there's a much, much bigger. A variation between colors. So they're not the same. And then on the other hand, they've got bright and airy and you've got maybe more nudity or like neutral tones where a lot of the colors tend to be the same or just a more mild version to, they're not that bright. Bright and vibrant, and those in my mind tend to be more green. Off which is on the opposite side. Right? We've got magenta on one side and green on the other and blue and yellow on opposites. And so. Blue magenta tends to get one side green and yellow on the other side to kind of start that. And then as far as like actual colors go and. I think too, like watching, being a person of color, I always look at how, how, and if they edit skin tones, Because oftentimes the warmer, darker, moody. Photographers tend to make someone with darker skin, maybe a little bit more yellow. To maintain them bright. Or like the warmth of their photos. Which is kind of another topic, but like, I think that's a different, an interesting variation that you might not see that as often when the photos are brighter and more pink, But it's a little bit more touchy when they get into the yellow space. And so Brighton, Brighton, airy. Dark and moody and muted. Kind of our, at least the spectrum that I often see. And then our people. I, those are the two extremes and then people are looking in between then. Is that, is that pretty, I mean, for video, I shoot through the life as much as I can. Right. So I don't, that's why I'm asking. What do you guys do? I know this stuff. Cause I just tried to make it look like it looked too. You know, when we were there. So I, Chelsea, what, what do you think about. Or other, and then other styles within that more. Stylized. I don't know, more true to life. I mean, what, what are people looking for? Well, so I feel like I've had people tell me they want one thing and then show me the example. And I'm like, Oh, Oh, okay. You're talking about. So more than like having someone and also that just, it makes me wild and I am still guilty of it too. But describing our stylists photographers were like, Oh my God, it's like effervescent and brilliant. And whatever we make up, all these words that don't make any sense. And. We're like, it's not fancy. What does that mean? So more so for clients like it, for couples looking for a specific style, like make a Pinterest board as much as a lot of photographers, like hate on Pinterest boards. It's so important. And because a lot of times maybe people aren't super attached to the editing as much as the feeling. So being able to. You know, no, your chops is a photographer. I'd be like, Oh, cool. So I can see your Pinterest board here. I see like, you know, you like this kind of style, is it candidly? Oh, do you want to look like a Vogue model? Oh, you need something more like fine art, maybe like more editorial. So I think that's a better. Vibe more than anything. And this is my personal thing. I edit pretty true to life. Two, I, you know, I have my own special Steve's on things, but. More important than like that specific coloring typically is like how the photos make you feel. And I think that's really important to you. So you can like, Oh, this color looks really pretty, but making sure that like you can imagine yourself and them, and it's not just like, The type of editing. So I think it's important, obviously, like people have vibes and making sure also if you're going to have a videographer that those two can match or at least be cohesive, I've seen some of my, kind of, it just, it feels jarring. If you have video that doesn't match your photos, it just feels a little for me. That's my personal, like, I just think it feels jarring when they don't. Kind of gel together. But that's what I would say. I more so is like, instead of trying to explain yourself, just show us and we can tell you what you're asking for, because it's, there's so many different styles and styles change. So if you really love something that's like super pop in right now. That's great. If you love that and just keep in mind, like, yes, I'm going to continue to love it, then yes, it will continue to match my vibe or like, so for, you know, true to life, whatever we call it, that looks like how the day went or it's pretty similar that, you know, Maybe won't have as much of a timestamp on it. And so if that matters to you, that's something to consider too. But I think that's been the biggest thing is that people don't really know. All the time with day one. They have Pinterest boards and then like Instagram. And so I always ask like, Make sure that you've gone through my Pinterest or like my Instagram and making sure that most of what you see there is what you like if some of it is, but not all of it then, like that's important too, because. It's just as important for us as your photographer is to be able to deliver and have you be super stoked in the end instead of Utahns telling us something. Oh, totally. I can definitely do that. And then you being disappointed. Nobody wants that. You're unhappy photographers. I'm happy. So the more you can show us and we can help you decide and not try to chameleon say, Oh, I can, I can do that. Like we just need to be honest with ourselves. Is that our style or not? And for a photographer is like, I don't want to shed, but like it's in our best interest to have our clients' best interests at heart. Like why. Why choose to do something that we're not super competent that we can really deliver on. And I think that that's what that's, what can happen from those Facebook posts. Is that people maybe don't know their style or just are like trying it out, which is fine. It's great. People have budgets. And if your budget is more in line with someone that you might get from a Facebook post, great. Nothing wrong with that. You just have to know what you're getting and be okay with, you know, the levels and things like. They come with whatever range of price you're hoping to invest in. Yeah, I have a great story. When we get to actually about matching portfolios. I Jamie. Wha what do you, what do you think styles people, you know, Doing the Pinterest board thing. Is that, do you recommend that? I mean, what do you, in terms of people trying to figure out like, you know, what. The aesthetic that they want for the photos to be. Yeah, I definitely prefer people to show me like examples of what they want. Versus saying to me, you know, Oh, I want a dark and moody photographers, like came to you and then I'm like, But I'm not really that our committee. So how did you end up here? It's like, I don't want them to kind of put me in a box before they've seen my work. So I would prefer that they. Find a website of someone that they like find a Pinterest board than just like, be like, Hey, I like Brighton Mary photos. Can you do that? Like, don't go to, like, you don't go to burger King and be like, Hey, I was just a, McDonald's like, can I have big Mac? Yeah. Like. Go to burger King because you liked her. Right. I dunno, what's burger hanging on for. So they don't offer. I was over there. I don't go to burger King. The one on the corner is terrible. But, so I get the point that you're saying, right? So that you want, and I get this a lot in, especially like when I was starting in video two, you get this a lot, right? I want this, do you do this versus, Hey, you know, I've looked at your work and I enjoy the things, you know, the words that you have on your website, the photos that you have, the things I've learned about you. Right? So, I mean, is that when people asked me, did you have something that you wanted to say, or you agree with Jamie? Aspen's got something else before we go. I want to say, I think. When people come to me, one of the things that I try to help, and I don't know if you guys do this, but it's kind of educating the client. On even what they're looking for, because I, for example, I had a friend of mine. I'm doing their elopement in may. They came to me and were like, the colors were all, they were all Brown. And white. And I was like, well, that's really interesting. Can I see them? Like, you know, like it was so muted, they got engaged in the snow and it was all the same. They're also Brown and they were in the snow. And so I was like, well, yeah, because that's the only color that's showing up, you know? And so I think even like, Having my couples, helping them walk through that, like, yes, our style might change based on the location. If I'm shooting on the beach in Hawaii and there's blue everywhere, it's just inherently going to look maybe brighter because it's two o'clock. Then golden hour. At deception pass where everything's green and the Brown, the blue is way more muted. And so I try to do that with my couples to have like inquiry. Hey, show me who you like talking through that process because when I show them. Two different photos of mine when might look brighter and more airy. And when might look dark and moody, this is after some, you. I thought a B is out is post sunset sounds gone. It's blue hour and photo a is at 12 o'clock. Ceremony. In broad daylight. So I try to do that as well. I think I wanted to go ahead. I know. I'll I'll help line after you go for it. I just want to call him that too. And it's super important. And so I would say 99% of all the wedding. They shoot our afternoon, evening weddings as most weddings are. And so the one unhappy client that I had gotten married in the morning. And she was like, the pictures don't look like what I wanted. And I was like, Okay. Let's fix this. Let's figure out what, what happened? Like where would there a miscommunication. How have I not met your needs? And so she sent me all of her pictures that she really liked. And so she got married at maybe like, Nine in the morning. Should I married in the shade in dappled shade with like a big blue sky behind her? And so two, as we know, as photographers to match for the, her being the shade, the sky was a little blown out. Whatever there are different ways to do it. My mistake, maybe then not taking more into account and thinking it would matter as much anyway. I, so she sent me all the pictures that she liked and they were all from like 2:00 PM on. And I was like, I see. Okay. Let me explain, and I don't think you're going to love this answer, but here's why, so, like, this is the, just the conditions of the day, the same as like, if you're in the snow, like. It's going to look a little flatter depending on if it's an overcast day, we're not going to have bright, crisp blue is their bright, crisp green. That's just. There's. That's why I think like dark and moody and like light and airy. Like there are those extremes and I feel like a lot of us. Fall into the same thing where like, it really depends on where we are and what we're doing, and like the actual weather, like the situation that we're in. So I think that's really important to you. Like. Over managing expectations. And that was my fault with her wedding too. Is that. If I hadn't asked her, like when the wedding was, and we didn't get a timeline until like a month out. And I didn't even think to like, Oh, it's a morning wedding. I should tell her that it'll be different. So that can happen. And I think that's really important too, with style. So more so than style. I'm like, how do you want to feel in these pictures? And again, cool. I can help you feel that way because I'm good at my job at good at creating that space for you to feel those things. And cool vibe check. You want to feel those things? Great. Now go back and double-check it. My portfolio, if you can like feel those things for my portfolio. And that you liked the color. So like, I feel personally style is the first thing that catches people. But even if someone had a beautiful gallery that I love and I couldn't vibe with them, or like we didn't connect on the phone. So I always recommend like, do a phone call. Pick your top five, top 10. Reach out. Do phone calls and like, That's. Yeah, I'm all about like, you should imagine me being at your wedding. I will be next to you. The whole time. More than like your partner more than your bridesmaids. I will be with you. So like, you can imagine me being like, An honorary bridesmaid, or just even the guest at your wedding. That's going to be like, it doesn't matter how beautiful your pictures or you remember that. I sucked. You want me to, he didn't like me. Yeah, it's tough. You know, I guess. With these styles in, in with the aspects of the day, you know, the weather and all that, one of the best weddings I've ever, it's still one of the best ones on my wedding, a website, you know, I really overcast October day. Right? Randy, whatever. And I loved the photographer that we had, but, you know, they were so in their style is radically different. And I mean, you wouldn't even know he was so bright and airy. Either ratchet up. I mean, you wouldn't even know that it was the same day, right? I mean, you look at this, you know, and I've showed, like, I showed my wife and she's like, really? Like, this is the same. I go. Yeah. You know, and, and, and, and that's fine. I mean, like Josie said, you know, you can, you can force that. Right. You know, [unknown]. To fit that style. I think I was just, we had Gina on our four old trends. One this last week. I think this really is applicable to, to photography as well, where, you know, you guys want people you have at jive with the style that want your interpretation of things. And she said the same thing with, you know, when it came to be in a forest. It's like, if you were a chef and you wouldn't go to somebody and be like, yo, how did you do this? I want a grilled cheese sandwich with like this or whatever on it you would say, Hey, I trust your expertise. Right? I want your interpretation of whatever that is. Right. So that way, like, you know, Chelsea said, you know, if it's a morning wedding or if it's a dark wedding or if it's. You know, I work with all these photographers that are like natural light, whatever. And then the client gets married in like a barn somewhere and they have to use flash the whole time or whatever. Right. It's you need to, you make sure that whoever you're hiring right. That you want, maybe their interpretation of what your day is as opposed to just like, these are the 16 photos that I want. Exactly. I made right back at me. Jamie, what do you want when people reach out to you on your website or Instagram or wherever they get in touch with you? What do you want them? Some questions that people. You know, the brides grooms, whoever couples should be asking, what do you want them to be saying? You know, when they reach out. So I think for me before they even start asking questions, Once they've kind of vibed with my style. And they can tell. They can see themselves in the photos. I want them, like also Chelsea said, I want them to imagine. If they could stand me for. You know, Six eight, 10 hours. Following them around. Like, are they gonna, are they gonna have fun with me or are they going to just be like, you're just the hired help. Like if I have like a thing on my contact page where I'm Mike. I kind of placed my values. And then Mike, if yours. Align with this, send me an email. If they don't. Cause I don't even want you to come into contact me at that point because we're not going to have a good relationship. Like you need to imagine that. I basically want to shop till wedding filling my time, going to a friend's wedding. I know I'm going to have for eight hours, I'm going to have a good time. And I'm going to be able to like relax into the day versus like, Wondering whether, you know, these people are. The same as me. If that makes sense. So you say that it's both a, they. That you want it. It is important for you equally for someone that jive with your style. And also the personality that you're bringing to the wedding, which I think is something that other people that are booking don't. Not that it's not important to every vendor type, but I do think like your personality should vibe. Significantly more with your photographer then like the person that's doing like the rental drop-offs right for you not to obviously. Yeah. On everybody, either everyone. We want to be friends with everybody and everybody to get along, but. And that's the same thing I deal with with video, right? Is they think, Oh, I'm going to have my photographer. I'm going to do the engagement session we're going to meet for coffee. 18 times are ready to do all this. But it's like, I'm also there too, right? You know, and so I do some of that. So you're saying, so when someone is engaged is looking on their website, looking for photographers that both sides of their brain, right. It should be. Equally looking at style and then also personality and vibe. Is that, am I saying that right? Yeah, definitely like you. And not even just personality, like, I guess it kind of ties into first time a bit, like, what are their values? Like, don't just give your money to someone because it's, you know, someone who makes pretty pictures, like make sure they're, you know, disinherited Bay and they're not going out on the weekends and like murdering children or something. Like make sure that this is someone that you could picture. Having like pictures. Make sure it's someone that you'd go to the public for six hours on a bender, like. Cause you're gonna let. I mean, you're not going to go on a bender on your wedding day, but you're going to spend six hours with them. Like, is it going to be six hours of just kind of awkwardly trying to make small talk with them? Or is it six hours where you're like cracking jokes together and having a good time? Like I would rather spend money. On something that I know is going to be fun. Versus something that is just being spent to be done. And I'm going to go to Aspen. And after this, it's so funny. I have one photographer. It's one of the only photographers I've ever had, you know, run-ins beef with weddings and this goes back like five, six years. And. Every time I work with this lunch photographer. I always know what the couples are going to be like. And it's, it's, it's weird that like that they gravitate to. But it's always like, it's always the same kind of wedding. Like I always get along with a couple, I tried to get along with everybody, but like, they, it's just certain personalities meshed with this photographer versus, you know, other people write and it's clearly that there, you know, And that works for them. Right. And they're working whatever, but I always know exactly what that, you know, what that vibe is going to be like walking in. Like you said, Jamie to that wedding. I know what that wedding's going to look and feel like if that photographer is there as a wait, what do you think about that? People reaching out booking. You know, looking at things. Questions, all the, all the topics we were talking about right now. Yeah. I think one of the things that I recommend to my friends, anyone who I know who's like getting engaged to not reaching out directly to me first as that client. Is to sit down and kind of figure out what your values are. And what you value during the day. I think that. Knowing knowing that helps dictate and direct a lot of your steps in who you hire, you know, I think in Jamie, you talked about that as like, what are your values? So for example, I've had a couple who was like, we really want to spend time with our friends and family. This is like pre COVID. But we have people flying in from around the world really important. We really want to spend happy hour with them. We know that usually happy out and they'd done an auto research. They're like, we know usually happy hours when we do romantic portraits, we're going to hire you to do that another time. We really want to spend time with our people and like having them come to me with that already. Was really harmful to be like, yeah. Okay, great. We're on the same page. It's it's a boat. It's both parties working together to really set that expectation for the day. Because had I not known that I would've just been rolling on right. Using that time to get these portraits, but instead we built it out to where they, we did portraits before. And then after happy hour, we took a little bit time and did that after, but I made sure that they had like a solid hour. Of just spending time with their people where I also got to just chill, which was great. So I think knowing what you as a couple want and what you value should. Give you another layer of like, of a filter for who you hire. And I think too, I mean before booking I again, pre COVID would go out for a drink with people. And just get to know them. I love it. Kind of like we talked about earlier, but like the litmus test and you know, like, did you read my website? I mean, I love when couples. Or like, Hey, we thought you love panic at the disco. We also love panic at the disco. Thanks for sharing that. And it's like, Oh great. Now I have something to respond with and we can kind of. You know, it's like online dating a little bit where it's like, you gotta find some way to connect with us. This person and feel like, read my profile, like read my website. I wrote a lot about myself and who I am and what I value pick a value that you also align with. And like, let's talk about how to. Incorporate that because I think the photographer. Had a lot of power in guiding that day and making it busier or less busy, you know, and working together to create the data that you want. And I think. Yeah, I think it's, it's tricky. I had a couple of people. You know, who don't want to talk when they reach out and that's pretty difficult. So I would say as a couple, like get ready to invest. In that preliminary contact. I'm just like what I call the first date. I'm like, let's talk because you know, if we don't hit it off, It might not be the best fit and that's okay. Chelsea thoughts about that? Yeah, I think that's one of the most important things. I know a lot of people could do a lot of different things like, Oh, don't make your clients do anything. I'm like, I think it's really important. Like if you don't. And I get that people are really busy and I think that's a me to do with the price brackets is that you're in as well. Like sometimes I don't get to meet my clients because it's a planner referral and we're just trusting our mutual vibe check. That like, okay, cool. I trust her enough that this client is gonna be perfect for her and vice versa. I trust that you can do a job. And I'm like, okay, great. Well, here's a proposal. So sometimes we don't get to meet them and it's a lot of just trust. So that goes in with, you know, like meeting your vendor is getting good relationships with vendors. And so I would say for clients, like if you hire couples, if you hire a planner first and they come with recommendations, I think definitely consider those recommendations, go through, look at their work, make sure you like that. Make sure that like, Hopefully most photographers at this point in most websites, you can get that at least some iota, their personality from just reading their website. And I always personally, like I get a lot of my business from Instagram, so I always thought for Instagram, like go check their Instagram, watch their stories. Hopefully they show up or go into their highlights and you can see how they talk, like how they speak. Like. And just being able to get a general kind of. Gut reaction to somebody I think is important because same thing, like we. You're trusting us with something super important. And most of us are in the bracket and it's going to be several thousand dollars. So it's not an easy, it's not a light investment. It's not, I think a decision that should be made. Like flippantly or quickly. And I feel like typically in that three to seven, Thousand dollar investment range. It's people like a particular skillset. And who should be able to meet you where you're at and answer all your questions. Like that's one of my things like it's never, I personally don't believe it's ever my client's job to know what they're looking for. They should just know that they like me and have a connection to me. And then we can talk in continue. Hopefully they'd done a little bit of research and maybe read my website to know, like, can we give it up for them? But that's kind of where I stand on the. I should have the basic information out there. They should be able to like, yeah, let's go through. I think it's important to just like, have as a client. And I use this word so much, but like my Jags, like having a vibe check every so often. Do you get like their website? Cool. Yes. We like the instant. Yes. And it's really important. Like if you see a big disconnect anywhere, like. I personally vote for running in the opposite direction. Like everything should be cohesive for this person that you're hiring. Like how awful again, that's why I like looking at their presence online and then having the conversation with them, like. As who they are or who they're portraying themselves as online. Actually who they are when they speak to you, like. If they're saying they gotta be whatever values and they speak to you in a weird way, or you just like. Feel some type of way. That's not ideal. That's super important. And so I'm all about a good vibe check. Make sure you like this person. Make sure there's no like weird sketchy things anywhere. At all. And I think as you get higher, every pay more and more as you're willing to invest more and more. There's less that. That's not true. There's occasionally less chance of that, but still the same way. Like I know like sometimes we as photographers and get big egos and like, Oh, like maybe this is my client because they're getting married in a barn. Like again, make sure that you have the conversation because if they treat you like less than this is going to be the person that's gonna be with you all day. Nothing worse than getting a beautiful thing. And just remembering that the experience was bad. So like going to a restaurant and having a really, really great meal, but just remembering that the waiter was super, super rude to you kind of sours the whole thing. Same goes for your wedding photographer. I asked when you have a, you have to note. Yeah, I think kind of on that same vein. I would recommend to couples who are looking for a photographer to get out of the mindset. And Jamie, you touched on this I've hired, like of being hired help, or like you're just a vendor. Like that can be a big shift because God forbid anything awful happen. But like even Chelsea, your, you told the story about how you were able to even have the conversation to explain why the photos look different. That's because you had that kind of relationship where they weren't like, I'm going to Sue you. You didn't deliver what I wanted. And it's like, that's where the. Like all of that stuff that we're talking about matters. Like at the end of the day. Yes, we're a business and yes, this is our client also humans. And like, to be able to even get to that point of having that conversation of like, Hey, my photos look weird. Why is that? You want to be able to say that to your photographer and. Expect and trust that they're going to respond. Accordingly and with a good response, you know, I think that relationship can save a lot of miscommunication if there is God forbid again at, but I think that relationship piece is, is key. Do you think that that's under. Undervalued or underappreciated or under thought of. When people are entering into, you know, maybe they get that, you know, six months down the road or after their wedding day. But do you think. Going into hiring a photographer that they don't necessarily, you know, the couples booking don't realize how important that relationship is that they're going to have with their photographer. No, they don't, because I think like I talked to my couples about this all of the time when they first inquire is like, I'm going to be seeing you more than your mom, more than your partner. Like you are not marrying me, but in some instances, especially when it's not a priority too. Get time with your people. You're literally seeing me more than anybody else. So you better make sure that we got along both and both partners. Got along with me. Because that is where I think. All lot of miscommunication can live is if we don't have a good relationship or if we're coming from another vendor referral, like again, I talk a lot with the planners and it's like, okay, great. I get along with a planner, but like, do we actually matter? And so as a couple don't necessarily dress, like you said, Chelsea, you don't necessarily just trust your planner to give you the perfect person, even though they get along. It's like, you really need to make sure that this is something that you can have conflict resolution with because your day is going to be stressful. And can you trust them to help walk you through? Those difficult moments with your future? Mother-in-law. Et cetera. Jamie, what do you think. I was actually just lamenting the other facts that the other day. But the fact that we currently can't have in-person. Wedding consults. And like the whole doing it through. Everything is just. It's the same and it's not the same. Because. There's always those like weird, awkward silences. Between people talking and stuff and it just doesn't feel the same. So I kind of feel like people reaching out right now for weddings or kind of a disadvantage for that. And I feel for them. Because I'm a lot more fun number sitting in a coffee shop. I'm sitting here at the other end of my computer, just being like super awkward. Cause I'm like, Oh, did they try and phase out in a way? So it's kind of. You should definitely. Where COVID safe. Try and meet up with your person. I don't think I've ever booked. A wedding without meeting them. First. So that's definitely like. The gate. Like you need to. You need to talk, you can say, and I guess people these days have it a lot easier because of things like Instagram stories. But you can post. You know, the most. Flubbery nicest. Facebook posts, blog posts. Even Instagram, regular posts. And look like an altogether. Suave person. And then people go to your Instagram stories and you're just a hot mess. But that also makes you more human like that. There's that extra layer of connection, even though you're not necessarily doing it. Part of that person. They then feel that connection to you and that might cause them to reach out. So I think that's like so good these days and why more people should be doing Instagram stories. Chelsea thoughts, and then I'll have a comment after. Yeah. And so I, again, and this is super unique to every photographer, every client and the, how the personalities. So for me being duly base and especially. You know, in Hawaii, I personally don't do it in person meetings even before this, just because it never really worked out for my schedule. Like all I do meetings with my books clients, but I do all of my consults over the phone and that's just my preference and my business practice. So I'm a busy person. And typically my clients also ended up being busy people. So we're like, Kind of like the same thing, like, Oh, we could, how you're doing this podcast. Or you'd like, we could go around for months trying to actually get a coffee date, but like we could also help in the button five minutes. So that's my personal thing. And also with personalities, I think it's important to consider, not just that you like them. But that your personalities can make. So my purse, I have a bigger personality. I'm loud. I heard a lot of energy, like. Really excited at weddings. And sometimes that is what people need and sometimes that's too much. So also considering what type of photographer you want to have. So do you want someone who's going to be able to guide you through the day? Or do you want someone that you don't notice? Because both are fine. It's all depends on what you want. And then still having that conversation of like looking at a full portfolio. That's another thing we didn't mention, but when you do talk to people, ask to see a full gallery, because like everybody, our Instagrams and our websites, or our highlight reel, we're showing you the best because we want you to know that we can do excellent things. And it's also really important, especially if you, if your budget has you hiring someone in the lower range is making sure that they can photograph a full day with excellence and not just the pretty parts of the sense that in the nice dress. Or that someone's portfolio, isn't just like a style sheet anyway. So let's totally off topic. But meeting in person, I think is really important. Personally, I feel grateful my, I can put my personality and connect with people pretty much anywhere. Anytime. I'm grateful for that. But that's not the case for all people. And even with my clients, like I've met a lot of people and it is kind of awkward sometimes just like. Is there a question? So my personality makes this a more successful approach for me because I'm just like, All right. Let's set the scene. Let's handle that. And I think there's more that as photographers that like, Knowing that like, just putting, starting with that, like, all right. Zoom things are not as great as in person, but we're doing what we can do. So if there are any health group. I apologize in advance. So if I talk over you so sorry. You know, my internet. Is garbage, but. Yeah, we're all just doing the best we can. And even with that, like, Do you want someone like who can make all right, this is going to be awkward. I promised them and be much funner in person. Or like, And giving yourself and your photographer's them grades, like if you do have connection issues and it is awkward, like try again. If you really like them, or there was something there, like try again and give each other grace both ways. I agree with that. And I think you said. You know, Lots of different personality types and other is right or wrong. Right. It's it's what, what do you need? You know, we work, I work with a plethora photographers and, you know, summer in your face and some aren't and some are. You know, moving the fingers around to try to get, you know, pre COVID to try to, okay. Your hand needs to go, you know, and then summer. Are not right. And so it's really, like you said, finding what works best. I do want to talk about that you were talking about, you know, so looking at full portfolios, looking at work, right. I will tell my funniest story here really quick. The one of the only really unhappy couples we ever had was a couple of years ago. Mom, mom of the bride books is like two weeks out. It's like I some fell through something or other, you know, and so we go and it seems fine. It's like a really not a nice lady. And like, it's just kind of. BMO, just not really aesthetically, whatever. We do our best. I like threw in all this drone stuff and everything. And we send it over and bride hates it and I'm like, what? Like totally like not, not one redeeming quality of this at all. And so, you know, we go back and forth and it finally comes out after about three or four emails back and forth. Does she never looked at one thing of anything on the website at all? You know, before, right? Cause. You know, My work is pretty consistent. You know, we have hundreds of these videos to look at. And so now I'm like, well, I don't take any blame of this anymore. Right. You know, Cause, like Chelsea said before, you know, sometimes. You know, they're looking for one thing you do the best you have, but I mean, there's no excuse when you haven't looked at anything and you don't necessarily know what you're getting into. So when it comes to photography, You know, we got portraits, portraits, portraits, all over everything. Right. Full self on the website. What's your couples be looking at and asking to see and trying to see when they're, when they're hiring a photographer who wants to start with this one? Awesome. Okay, Jamie, go for it. Yeah, I would definitely say an IME. Kind of one of those people that pushes on them, because I don't think a lot of people know are, I think a lot of people might find, might think that it's kind of offensive to ask, but. I asked for a full gallery. Like. I mean. Most websites nowadays have blogs on them. And that was good. But again, that's still a curated. Gallery to a point. It might show the whole day, but it's showing the best of the whole day. So, yeah, definitely like ask to see a full guy. If someone says no, then that's straight up a red flag because. Even if you've done, you know, five weddings, 10 weddings. Not like not all of them are going to be like, I show my photos to anyone. So there's absolutely no reason why somebody shouldn't have a full gallery. Okay. It might be like, Oh, hosting. But they can take a day and upload it somewhere or whatever. But. There should absolutely be a full gallery made available from. The start of the day to the end of the day, everything that they delivered. And hopefully it will match. What's on their website. When, and maybe asked him when, when you, do you agree with that first off? And then if people are looking through a, what are. Things that they should be considering whether things they should be asking, you know, as the couple, when they're looking at these, you know, like a full gallery, because I wouldn't know. Right. Like, I wouldn't even know what to look at. Yeah, I think that the full gallery thing is huge. And I'm thinking back, even as I'm listening to this. Of how many couples have not asked me for a full gallery, which is kind of shocking. I think it's absolutely. That is, that should be a deal breaker if you don't like the full gallery and granted ask those follow-up questions of like, Hey, why does this look different? Oh, it was a 9:00 AM ceremony. That's going to be a great starter to asking and happiness conversations, set those expectations. Like ask her a full gallery. I think knowing what you value again already. Coming into that conversation is going to be so helpful. Like for example, my, again, I've mentioned that to my sister recently got married. My parents, for example, don't have any photos of themselves like any good photos. I don't know why I haven't taken photos of them yet, but. On my radar now, but I was like, Hey, this is going to be a great opportunity. I really want photos of my parents to remember now. You know like that, because they've been married 33 years and it's awesome. And so I told the photographer that I was like, yeah, it's not my day, but I know my sister values that. And I know what my sister values and I'm kind of helping translate that as a photographer. And that was an expectation that we set as well with the photographer. But I think like knowing what you want already. So if family portraits are really important to you, family portraits often don't make it in the Instagram post. They don't often make it in the blog post, ask for a full gallery and look at the family portraits. If you don't like them, that's usually that people use. And what people will look at right, is like the couple of them, their grandma who passed away recently or whatever, it's like, that's what, at least for me being on the other side of that as a. At a family member had the bread. That's what I value. And so. Oftentimes, I think we know as wedding professionals. That gets. Blitz through like that is like family portraits are chaotic. They're one of my least favorite parts of the day. But now that I have the other side of that perspective. Chelsea you're laughing at me, but that's fine. We, yeah, they can be really difficult to manage and get through, but knowing how important that was to me, I need to know that about my client, if that's the most important thing, that way I know how to move. And I think this comes with. Time, and this is where the Facebook blasts. Can you, you can get a little lost is like, I'm not trying to build a portfolio anymore. I mean, sure. If I get a kick ass wedding, Awesome. I'll add it, but I'm not like. Dying for the details anymore. And I think that's something that I was really hungry for my first year, where I would spend 30 minutes photographing the tables. And crying my way through the family portraits when that's not, or like taking pictures of the shoes, it's like, we want one photo of the shoes, but like, that's not what it's about. And so I think that's one of the things too, with expertise and time and longevity of being in this industry, which is going to cost you, but you're going to get a different result, right? It might like one of my friends is. Annie Graham love her. She's an awesome photographer. We talked about this all the time. I've second shot for her. And it was so funny. I think like when I'm one of the first time, the second shot for it with her, I was like, Oh, do you want to get pictures of the ring? And she's like, no. Like, I don't care about that. My client doesn't care about. And like, she was very, she did not say it in that way at all. She was very nice. She was like, no, that's totally fine. I don't need it. It's fine. Or do it if you want. But like, even just knowing that shift of perspective of when I was starting versus she's solidly in her career, I can how's she. You know how she builds again, that feeling. It's not about. Oh, God, I need all this for Pinterest. And for myself, it's like the shift suddenly changes from portfolio building to your client and their actual needs. Which usually are more candids. And more like random group photo moments during the cocktail hour and last pose stuff. And so I think, I think all that's super important. I've been bad. A fantastic point. And that's definitely somewhere in the ideal with that a lot with video people too. And I remember early on, we used to do these like videographer meetups all the time, and they were asking like, what do you post every wedding that you do? Do you do all this? And we're, I'm a volume, we're a volume studio. We do a lot of weddings every year. And so. You know, not every wedding has to be like website ready. And that doesn't mean that it's not a beautiful wedding for them. And that it's not, like you said, when you have your portfolio, when you know that and are you guys have your referral base and your Instagram, and everyone's going to book you guys anyway, it really does allow you to focus on what does my client want, what do they need? And I think that's great. You know, I used to spend an hour hanging in the dress and I would go up on the roof and hang it off the chimney. And my assistant would be hanging. I mean, I'm serious. Like. My S you know what? My assistant almost fell off a roof. We were out at that, that Seebeck park out in the peninsula. And, but like now, if, if, if you know, I, you know, if you spent a minute on that and then you're able to spend 30 minutes with, you know, the groom getting ready with his mom or whoever, or, or, you know, the grandma's, they're putting the necklace on or whatever it means is way different. And I do love that. Like, That shifting perspective where you do to relate it back to the Facebook post and stuff, where a lot of the people on there. You know, and it's not wrong, but they're trying to build portfolios. They're trying to do that and just know that. As a client you're competing with that other desire right? During the day, whether they're intending it to be or not. Right. If you have a portfolio you're. It's just different. You're going into that, right? I mean, Chelsea, did you guys, do you get where I'm saying with that? Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, like you said, there's nothing wrong with hiring someone who's building their portfolio. You just have to know that there is more assumed risk with that. And so, and this is something too by God's photographers and videographers, or just in general, visual artists of the wedding industry. Not everybody cares. Not everybody cares about having a super, super dope portfolio of our gallery of images. Some people just want to capture it. And so there is a photographer for everyone. And so some of the lament I hear like with Facebook posts, like, Oh my God, like everybody's on there. I'm like, there's people undercutting and whatever. Like, it shouldn't matter. Because like, for me, like my goal is like, Well, and luckily, luckily. And as I've been in this long enough, like those aren't my clients anymore. If someone tags me in a great, they can come and find me, but typically. Like there's a specific client that goes to a Facebook post for what they want or that they just don't know. And there's a specific photographer that is excited for those. And all of that is excellent. All of that's fine. But like you were saying, and like both you and Aspen. There is a switch. And so sometimes I do get clients that are just like, Hey, can you, I like a wedding. I had an October. She was like, I want all the details. Like I've put so much time and effort into these details. I'm like, perfect. I'll photograph the s**t out of those. Awesome. But some people don't care at all. And that's a part of the interview process too. So like, if I, if a photographer has asked you what's important to you, that's like, You should be able to already have that conversation before you get booked. So again, that's part of like, do they care about me? Do they care about my wedding? And do they care about how I want my wedding to be and how I want to experience it? And you know, not everyone is like purposely excluding that question, but it's important to notice if they ask you about those things. Cause like, yeah. With any Graham, like her clients don't want that. And she has established enough that like her portfolio is don't include these curated photos of their, you know, the dress hanging on like the peak of Mount Everest or whatever. Or the ring, like so perfectly, whatever, and that's fine. And that's again, very different styles of photography. So there's very stylized. There's more document. Any documentary, like journalistic approaches. And so that's, I mean, you can decide to, so auditing yourself. Like, what are the most important part? Like I always ask, like, are you more interested in HighQ bit being a photo shoot? Like as a bride, I wanted a damn photo shoot. I love the dress. I was like, I'm going to take extra time before my content. I'm going to put extra booze at the reception. I'm going to go get my photo shoot with my husband. And that's what I want. Like I'm hiring my dream photographer. Pay a bunch of money for it. That's what's important to me. And then yes, I wanted family portraits. So. You like. Are typically will attract the right people, but like, it's not our decision. Or a choice to like tell our client what matters to them. Like I am of the belief that as a photographer, if someone's paying me my premium. That I need to be delivering their day for them. And like again, throughout the process, like. We're gonna attract people based on the portfolios that we have out, I'd still have had people like, Hey, will you photograph this kind of wedding? And I do all of these kinds of things when it's like all off camera flash, or it's all like, Super dramatic, like whatever. And I'm like, Oh my God, did. How did you find me? And like, did you, did you see any, I don't do any of that at all. Like I wish I was so cool, but no, that is, you will be terribly unhappy if you hire me. Let me refer you out. So, yeah. I think having the portfolio is important, but. Yeah, we have. Our Halloween wedding this year. It's the same thing that they, we did not one second of romantic portraits the whole day at all. And my assistant with, he goes, we got to go get them when we got, we got to get them outside. We are, I said, Why they don't want that they're hanging with their friends. I didn't want that at all. If they wanted that we would have time to go do it. I certainly don't need this wedding for my portfolio. Right. Everyone's mass we're in this weird Airbnb, right? I mean, it's, you know, it was. They did a good job and I'm like, I don't need this. Like, why are we going to stress about making them do something that they don't want to do, that they clearly have no interest in. They, you know, they've hired this photographer a million times to do, they've got all these pictures of them everywhere. You know, why do they need, what do they need? 15 minutes of us having them walk through the woods for when they could be spending time with their families. So, yeah, I think Y you said knowing, you know, what, what that client wants is important. We're we're I com. Running time here. I mean, we could go forever about this. I don't want to keep you guys, you know, all day, obviously this is a topic that weekend you'll go back into later. I think Chelsea, how their comment and then. You know, maybe my maybe final thoughts for today, or, you know, maybe not forever, but at least for today about, about this. I really, you know, I appreciate everyone's time and you know, I hate to have this go on. You know, often you'd like, Chelsea, what would you say? The last thing you wanted to add? As far as like knowing what our client, and again, like, I am very much of the camp that our clients don't know because they don't, they don't know like we are in this industry, we're doing this all the time. With so many different types of people. So it's one thing for our clients to tell us what they want and for us to also be able to hear what they want and what they need. So a lot of times, like I don't really care, whatever. I don't care about my family portrait. I'm like, okay. Well, I think you'll be pretty. Let's just do to like, pick your two favorite. And thinking of things like that and then sharing from our own personal experience. So like I had been married. On one thing that I never thought about was like, we, we rush through our family portraits and I had asked her, I was like, Oh, should I make a shot list for you? And she's like, no, it's fine. And I was like, okay, we're going to be 25 people. I didn't think it was gonna be a big deal. We cycled through most of them, but I wanted more pictures with like, I only had two maids of honor, so I would have liked more pictures, but then, but I hadn't thought about any of this and got so swept up in my timeline and the day that I like it didn't even cross my mind. And so being able to educate our clients like, Oh, with the shot list or the photos that you, what you want, how you want to experience your day. What photos do you want to print? Like, you know, family photos that make it toward Instagram typically, but those are the ones that get printed. Those are the ones people buy those, the ones that you have on your mantle forever, or you send thank you cards. So I didn't get a picture with my sibling. And I was like, ah, we're never together. And we have a family photo, but none with just me and them. So little things like that for us to hear and then offer our perspective and like, Oh, I've never thought about that. Thank you so much. Yes, let's do a quick one. And then, you know, whatever, we just wing it and go through it. But hearing what they want are people like, I don't want any rhino project. Okay, well, I'm going to just sneaky. Get a couple for you. I won't take a lot of your time, but I feel like you'll still love them. And I had that experience too, where like the group doesn't want any of it, but he's like, Oh, I'm really glad you did that. And I'm sorry, I was a turd about it, but I really, really loved those pictures. Thank you so much. And so it's part of our job. I hear what you're saying, but hear this. I'm gonna give you this other perspective, too vocal. You won't even notice. So that was my last thought on that as clients. Think that they know what they want and they do, but we also know what they need. And Mike. For us, for people who are charging a premium for us to be able to get over that and like exceed their expectations is really important. Yeah. That's why I always fight to, well, not it's weird right now, but with. You know, getting a lot of like pre-stuff pre-game right. For video, especially, I'm like, you know, all, we just want you on for the discomfort, the first LA or like right when they're getting rivaled, we're done getting ready. I'm like, Man that hour of you guys. Shooting the s**t and playing cards and all that stuff. Like that's the stuff you want a lot of people for us, one of the video, right? I mean, you know, you, don't, you're going to frame all your other staff and whatever, where you're going to I'll look at us and we were. You know, being humping each other, being funny, or, you know, wrestling on the ground or, you know, whatever it is. Right. But that's always the stuff that they're like, Oh, this is so, I'm so glad we have all this stuff where I'm like, was. Yeah, it was probably worth paying that extra hour or whatever for us to come early, to be able to kind of get all that stuff. Aspen, final thoughts for today. Yeah. I appreciate everyone coming on. I, in any parting words for, you know, this so far, Yeah. I mean, I think, I think that we've talked about, if we're going to try to synthesize it is like, if you're looking for a wedding photographer, Find someone that you like and take the time to find someone that you like, because that relationship is super important. Figure out what you value. You know, I think going into that, knowing that you really want those family portraits with your siblings, knowing that you really want to pick up your shoes. Is super important to help set those expectations. And I think, you know, asking the question is the biggest, the most important question of, Hey, can we get together? Can we talk, can we community find a way to connect with each other, to figure out where we're at with each other? I think that's super important and. Just remembering that your height, you're trying to hire a friend. I know that sounds really cheesy. And really maybe lame, but it's like, this is someone who's going to be with you. For most of the day, I'm one of your most important days. So make sure that you feel comfortable, the more comfortable you are, the more your self you're going to be. The more that's going to show up in photos. Which is going to provide, you know, really excellent. Photos, which is ultimately what we all want for our clients. It's great, Jamie. Take us home. So I think what I would say is if you're out there looking for a photographer, And the stones like. Try and look at it as a, from a place to have what you want. Versus what you can get. So trying. And obviously it's, you know, at the end of the day, it's going to be one of the most expensive days of your life. Because hashtag nobody else's could be able to buy a home from now on. So it was going to be an expensive day. You're going to be dropping them. Ton of money on this date, but try and look at it without putting the monetary value on it. Try and look at. What that person brings to the table without looking at their pricing first. And if you get to a point where you're like, yes, this is the person. And then you look at their pricing. And it's still in, then I think you're onto a winner. Yeah, read that. Read the damn websites. I tell ya. I have, I mean, all the bio stuff, I have our pricing linked are listed on like every page in my website and I still 85, 90% of the emails. Hey, what are your, what are your packages and pricing? I'm like, I was just thinking. That might be the topic for next week is because there's a whole debate. Right? Do you, do you list pricing? Do you not? Do you do all that stuff, but I'll tell you that nothing, nothing makes me madder than they get the email. Hey, are you available? And then. Yeah. Whether your packages. I'm like, I list that on every page. I'm very, we're a volume studio. I'm very up front with pricing with all on there. So. Thank you guys so much. I'll link everybody's stuff. Do you want to just a quick plug for, for anything we'll go around. We'll start with Jamie and go back around any, any final plugs, anything that way. Thank you guys. All, some rubbing on. Yeah, thanks for having me. You can find me on Instagram at Jamie Buckley photography. Jimmy pulled the. I mean facebook.com forward slash. That sounds right. I'm not on Tik TOK, cause I'm not cool enough. I asked them. I I'm so glad we got to meet today. Ah, well, I'm at U a a. Yeah, you can find me on Instagram. My name is Aspen Janai for anyone who's confused. So Instagram at Aspen X, generic Aspen, Jeanette. Dot com. I also am not on Tik TOK. But I'm okay with that. Thanks for having me. And Chelsea, I'm glad as well. To me, I love I'm glad Jamie care. Come on. I'm glad we can get some new voices as well on here, which is great. I do tend to go to the well a lot with the same people. Sometimes I'm glad to definitely get new people on here. He's bored of me. Yeah. I am Chelsea. I am on everything. I am on all the platforms everywhere. So at Chelsea umbrella, there's two A's in there, like April with a B. I, yeah, I'm one of many happy little Brown girls living in the Pacific Northwest and happily serving Hawaii and Seattle. Have fun, have fun with your wedding planning? Hopefully once in a lifetime thing that you do. Yeah, and this is good. I think we got this positive today. You know, sometimes when we go start crapping on Facebook posts or something, thanks again!

Episode 29 - 2021 Floral Trends

Thank you guys so much for coming on. Gina was recently on the, get to know your wedding pro podcasts. We had a great, a wonderful sit-down discussion about her and florals and, and getting involved in the industry. A genie this year with her friend, Rebecca at Raymond today. And we're going to talk about, I was inspired, you know, we were doing a lot of these micro weddings, elopements things lately, obviously, you know, Restrictions fluctuate. We tweak a month to month, but I think the small weddings, the microwave and see allotments for the next, you know, three, four, five, six months are going to be. You know, what's allowed and what we're going to be doing. And so with that comes, hopefully, you know, reduce guest counts. Have more money to be spent on things like. You know, videography. I better photography, you know, and especially florals and really kind of elevating, you know, your ceremony, especially, and, and really kind of, you know, the bouquet and all that other stuff. So I really wanted to get some forests on early in the year to kind of talk about this and give you guys ideas for things to do things, to be thinking about. What's on trend. You guys, no way about that, more about this than I do. So why don't you guys both introduce yourselves and then we'll kind of start brainstorming some stuff today. Awesome. Well, I'm Rebecca, Raymond. I actually live on Vashon Island. So my wedding business started seasonally. The weddings there really are from may to say September, October. And. It's interesting. This whole, the intimate wedding. Concept now it was last February before the COVID hit that somebody was asking me so that I'm kind of scaling back on big weddings because I'm moving forward. Toward floral education. And so I was already kind of going that route with more intimate. More high end design. On a smaller. People count yeah. Scale so that people would bring me. You know, these amazing glorious photos that, and their budget just didn't fit in and be like, okay, well, you know, pick the thing. That's the most important to you? Pick the thing, and we're going to put our money into that. Like, if you want to get married in front of this elaborate gorgeous arch, and that's where the budget goes and you would like to have, you know, we can do that and then we can take some of those orchids and put it in your bouquet and we can make it all cohesive. Pick up that thing versus the whole deal. And so I was working towards trying to make that work for my brides anyway. So for me. Sort of the using the intimate wedding. Whatever you want to call it, that the, that the platform of the intimate wedding. That particular concept was not a big jump for me. What has been a struggle of course, is helping people who had planned on having 150 people at their wedding. And now it's 20. Yeah. So, yes, we adjust. Yes. We say, well, you know, we can adapt that and we can make this, this glorious event. You can have the most amazing photographer you can, you know, with that budget that you already had set. It's going to be like much more well for your dollar. Because you're concentrating it. So there's, there's, we're trying in every way possible. To bring the positive to a very difficult situation. Yeah. And with empathy and grace. Hopefully, you know, there are times when you just have to say. You know, There's only so much you can do. And Gina, who are you? Yeah. Yeah, we're good. Backwards. That's okay. I know. Yeah, I'm Gina. I've been on with read before, and I really appreciate and reaching out to you this again, you know, we have a lot of perspective on upcoming trends and. What's really new and hot this year. I feel like. I love. I've always loved a lope minutes, cause there's so much fun. You get the best pictures and the best videos from these brides, they go off to the mountains, to the sea. You know, I just love getting those pictures back. They're just so special. And I think that's, what's really nice about the situation. Is couples can really focus on what's important to them. You know, they, they don't have to feel the pressure to conform to, Oh my gosh, we need to have 500 invitations and they need to be, I mean, whatever's important to you. If the invitations are important to you, spend your money there. You know, they really get to prioritize and choose where they're putting their dollars to work for them on their wedding. So I'm, I, I love what's happening. I mean, yes, there is the sadness, but I like to think that this has power because people are making more conscious choices. So I'm here for it. I think it's great. Don't you think, do you know that. What comes out of that is just too. The experience the wedding itself. There's a different kind of magic to it. Yes, there is just a, there's just this real soul appreciative connection. Having smaller gatherings. Like those are the people that you know, that you like there that's frozen. And that intimate gathering, like often I, I said, you know, you can have a big table and a big party. It's not as lovely as having an intimate dinner gathering because you really get to connect. And I'm seeing that, not just in the pictures, but in that, in the energy. Around the experience. When you, when you go to bring the flowers are set up. It just feels like you're part of it. The chosen family, right? Like, you're the one that was picked specifically to do this for that day. So I don't know. I, I know that it's been tough, but I do think. It really cuts out on the boat, you know, like. There's a lot of stress around getting married. There's a lot of stress around weddings. You know, a lot of dollars wasted in places that. Wouldn't really be necessary. We, we, one of Dorothy's good friends, right? When we started dating, they got married at bell Harbor and they had their reception at the top. One of the Tom Douglas restaurants. And I remember when I got into video, cause I wasn't doing wedding videography yet. And when I got into it and she said, You know, obviously you weren't there, but, but if, if I could have hired the videographer, the amount of money I spent on the chairs that the people sat in. I never looked at were not in any, you know, photo. Nobody remembers I don't even remember. And she goes, I would do anything to go back. And like you said, you know, Cutting out a lot of that, you know, we, we tried to look at the positive on this podcast and, you know, the benefits of having the small weddings. I've said a lot of times on here that. You know, last summer, the summer before we would do these eight, 10 hour weddings. And by the end, the couples would be totally done. Don't want to do photos. Hey, do you want me. I don't even want to talk to people anymore. And we would be like, Hey, do you guys want to go do sunset photos? Note, we're good. Right. And I mean, it's like crazy to think about it because you know, you're just so burnt out the family stuff, the planning, all the expectations, the day. And so yeah, now that you can do this great, two hour, three hour, whatever micro wedding, I really liked being able to, like you said, pick the things that you care about and pick the things that you want to spend the money on. And it could be flowers, it could be invitations, it could be, you know, dessert. It could be whatever, but, but really spending that time and money on that I think is so important. Yeah. Yeah. I think it takes a lot of stress out. Makes people enjoy the day a little bit more. You know, like it's meant to be a day you enjoy. And I've always said that, but you know, a lot of, a lot of couples, just like the unnecessary amount of stress you're putting on yourself to perform. And, you know, The amount of stress you put on things that aren't gonna exactly go as you planned. Yeah, the controllables and non-controlled Molson. In some of those, you don't even know what they were going to be in the day of. And. Put all that energy into something. And then it does, you know, the stress that happens from that because they're thinking it all has to go. The expectation level is very. I feel like it's just a little bit more relaxed. It ha it is. And also people are just. There is this thing where there were so many choices. That and so much access and so much, I guess I should, because that's what everyone is doing. And it really like write it all down. Yeah. And it was like, Oh good. Almost I did. I'd have somebody say I was actually kind of glad that my, you know, I don't have to worry about my people flying in. And making sure they're tended to and doing all the things I need. You. So like that was taken away off their plate. And in a way, although they'll miss them there. It made everything easier. So, you know, there are a lot of gifts in it and I do hope that people go forward thinking. I'm creating this beautiful space. To, you know, move into another part of my, my life, their life. And they're sharing it with their, you know, closest people. And they have the rest of their lives together to throw a big party. Oh, a big party and that is a whole different energy. So in a way, I I'm, I'm almost hoping it's going to shift the trend. I think it's, I think it's time. You know, we can have these beautiful, intimate weddings that are romantic and magical. And then, you know, Have the, you know, the release from COVID summer gathering and it's loose in barefoot. You know, easy and it's a barbecue. So there's a lot of options that can happen. You know, we're not going to be in this situation forever. It is going to change. We are going to see the lift of, of COVID eventually. But I do think that the gifts that we have learned from this experience. We'll definitely make a difference in the future, especially when you have couples who are. Having a hard time choosing, cause there's too much to choose from. We can say, no, we've done it. We know now we we've done this. Everyone has done it and we know how special it can be. The scale back. Yeah. I'm having a real fears a lot. I don't know what the kind of, where this dilemma in my head, you were talking about the, you know, the weddings and everything. And, you know, is it going to be more focused on these allotments moving forward? And we, I just got my email that like the Seattle wedding show, you know, they postponed this year. They're doing it next year. And I got my email to do my placement and I'm having the very, I, you know, I don't know if. And we'll see, I think as we get into the summer, but I don't know if our world, you know, and booking these large scale weddings, it looks like it is going to, you know, it, whether it takes a year or two years or if it ever comes back, I don't know. Right. And you know, the idea of. Going back and doing this convention and trying to book these big weddings where I don't think. You know, for the most part, people that are traditionally booking the load mints and micro weddings are going to conventions, right. They are looking, you know, You know, Pinterest and things and searching it out more, more curated that way. So, anyway, I mean, this is, yeah. It's a discussion for a whole nother time, but it is it's, it's, it's a weird juncture where we're at right now. What it's going to work. Aye. Aye. For me that I have done that Seattle wedding show and. Honestly, it wasn't my cup of tea. To see the star struck, stressed out. New bride. Walking up to you like this. With her eyes like logging out of her head. Yeah. Just with the overwhelm, the sheer overwhelm of. Every like every booth, every piece of paper she's gathered it's to me, it was just not my place. In the wedding industry. I, I didn't care for it. I, I really like what's happening now. I'm like all about. Making it special, all about. The connection and the special pieces. So, you know, I don't know that wasn't my cup of tea, so I. I'm okay with that. I like the word curated. I think that that is, well, that kind of covers the umbrella of the wedding. The choices that people are making. You're you're, it's more of a curated specific. It's just more to their heart. They're not going to have to compromise on dollars that maybe they wouldn't. My husband always says to my girls and I've been in the industry for. What 27 years. And I have two girls and my husband's like, please alone. I will pay you. I will pay you to a lope and you can put a down payment on a house. You know, don't, you know, so. So we're, we're, we're shifting our thinking and now we're seeing that happen. So, but yeah, I don't know. It'll be interesting. I think some areas of the country, the big stuff will come back because that's the way it is. Yeah, like the South big weddings and stuff and the East. I always had the biggest that's tradition. So they may grab onto that as soon as they can actually it's already happening. So. But we're different and it's different in different areas of the country, which is something that's important to keep. Remembering. So, whether in Gina and I talked about this. Cause she was on about a month ago or so I'm trying to remember that with the holidays and stuff. You know, so for brides and grooms people planning now, you know, looking at for us, you know, trying to figure that out. Knowing, right. You know, it's just going to be a ceremony now, you know? Right. And it's going to be, that's going to be the main focus. What have the conversations you guys have been having with either your clients? What are those looking like? Are people, you know, sending new inquiry is whether those sounding, like, whether, whether people wanting to know or what are you guys talking with them about? Yeah. So on top of the fact that we're making things a little more curated. Ceremonies. Any sort of like special ties, you have to any. Like style. The style is huge for the weddings. I think. Not only style, but we're moving into a very, like eco-conscious, eco-friendly. Mentality. And a lot of us in the floral industry are really getting on that train because weddings and events are wasteful and there are better ways to do things nowadays. So. Leaning towards that, any way you can re reuse pieces of your ceremony to either like, have your guests go home with it in arrangement or, you know, making sure the products that you're using are going to biodegrade and compost. There's just so many things that you can do. On top of making a curated vision, but also being very conscious about your decisions. Yeah. I mean like lots of different kinds of archways shapes. I think we're trending with dried. Plural. Lots of drive right now. Which is great. I mean, I love using dried florals. Yeah. And the mayor. Yeah. Even blending plants. Oh yeah. You know, I use, I do that a lot, like blending. Potted plants live plants with your florals. And so those products are not going to be tossed in the garbage. They can be gifted to your guests and then there's a little keepsake, or they can plant them in their first home. Trying to incorporate things that are. Going to be carried with you or continue on. Now we're actually planning a shoot. So this is where we really brainstormed this last night. So we're going to do something together that incorporates all of that. And we'll definitely share it with you guys, cause it's going to be pretty cool. So. Keep an eye out for that after Valentine's day. Yeah. Cause I think the idea is maybe the fear is sometimes, you know, if I'm planning the wedding, there's only going to be, you know, 10 or 12 people. Right. It's going to be us up there. We can't have, you know, maybe the full bridal parties that we wanted. Right. We can't have, you know, 87 people standing up there wherever, like it seemed like it was getting right where you would have. Yeah. Or is it, you know, all these are, our friends got married years ago and I was filming the wedding. I think they had like 22 people come down the aisle. I for, I know in like Texas, I'm sure I'm with everybody in Seattle. This'll it does a lot of people coming down that aisle. But I think the fear is my ceremony is going to feel small or empty or right. Or like, You know, we see these things now and there's chairs spaced out and there's all this, you know, Dead space. Right? Weird space. Weird. And so I think it is that fair that people are thinking about it. And then potentially that you could use florals right. To, to really build that out and talk about some of those ideas, because I do, I know that that's a. A fear or a self consciousness that people have. Yeah. I mean, there are ways to fill that space and filling it with design elements is perfect. You know, maybe. You know, you're not spending the money on like those 22 table centerpieces. So why not put those dollars to work on getting something really special? You could eat. You know, we could do something like bring like live elements in, maybe build some trees. Any sort of like building stuff, backdrops. Really cool pieces, art pieces almost. Yeah. So constructing some floral art for the event itself. And, and as far as. It does, of course depend on the location. And so, you know, on the other hand, like on the Island, do a lot of the weddings are outdoor and you know, so there's the big tents and like all of a sudden. We're having. You know, we're taking all that in and these beautiful buildings. Are. Now. You know, like, okay, we're gonna have a wet, like, it wouldn't be able to host a wedding in that smaller space. Right. But because the weddings are smaller and there's less people. That some of those things are becoming possible. And the tenting is not this huge, vast tent where people get lost in it. It's all smaller, but as far as the ceremony itself, Like, I'm just actually working with a bride now for her spring wedding and we are concentrating on, she went from 150 to 20. And we are making this awesome aisle runner. Yeah. So instead of doing like a marker and a marker and a marker, which is standard for a big wedding, we are like creating this work of art as an aisle runner. So that, and then the Archway, which she has some specific ideas. So even though those chairs are spaced out from it, You're creating a stage of intimacy and the wow factor. And. The photography is better that way, because you don't have to have scope it out. Everything is more cohesive because it's all right there. And that's where that magic comes to. I mean, that's how you make that magic and then they get the wild factor. And it feels really special because nobody's done that yet. You know, it's been spread it out as much as we can so that everybody gets the little something, and now we have smaller groups, so everybody gets something fabulous. Yeah. So those are options that we see happening. Yeah, it just seems like we need to kind of embrace this as opposed to, you know, And online and at weddings I've been that. And I just see all these weird how they're configuring everything and trying to do it. And, you know, we did one where they had. Like some antique, you know, couches and things that were spread out just to make it feel. I just think as opposed to like, well, this is what we were supposed to have. We were supposed to have a hundred chairs in this thing. Well, we're just going to pull out 48 of them or whatever, and then still do it, but really. Coming up with ideas or across the board too, to just make it look and feel this is what we planned or not. Kind of like our backup for what we can do. They're also really fun. One that I saw, I thought it was. Cool where they had, they had. It wasn't like he walked down an aisle situation. It was like, I don't know how the couple would actually like get to the. You know, the backdrop and the ceremony part, like it's not a hundred percent clear in my mind, but there would be a cautious backdrop. Right. Whatever kind of Archway with floral and everything, but the guests would be seated at small little intimate. Like cocktail tables, but seated, like seated bistro tables. Where they can get a jazz show. Yeah. I have your specialty cocktails. Yeah. Just get to sit and watch them get married. Like I thought it was the way. It was so cool. Like very clever, very clever. You know, you can, they can have something nice and intimate, like a little, you know, a small little center piece, like small, but. I thought it was really cool. I thought what a great idea, you know, maybe point to people that are from the same household at one little piece to a table, and then it, yeah, you could even go like genius straight up per region thing with that. How would that be? Like, that's a super, super great idea. I love it. Yeah, because it's just, I think, you know, and we've, this has been, you know, are my cross on here and everyone's for, you know, months, it's like, we need to really be embracing what, what is happening now. And it just seemed for the longest time, it's like, well, Okay. So I can have, you know, up to this and up to this and up to this year, as opposed to just, you know, and, and we've, I've done episodes before where we've talked with email other couples that plan, and they've said, you know, once we just embraced it and cut the list and just said, this is what we're doing. Yeah, not only did the stress go away, but then like you guys have said, you know, we, we can really focus on, you know, what we care about, what we want to see as you know, that that's always been, my advice is just not to. Not to focus on what you can't have, but really emphasize what you can have, what our weather and this could be obviously, even before everything going on now, but, but questions, things people should be thinking about when, when you know, asking about four girls, when they're trying to build everything. I mean, I. You know, I can't even remember how the dummy questions we asked, you know, when I was getting married and had no idea what was going on. So, you know, what are the questions they should be asking? Are those things changing now because of everything going on. Not really. I feel like the questions are still very standard questions. You know, we do get a lot more of like, Hey, would this be a possibility? Like, could you make something like that? And. That's fun because people are realizing that they can do those kinds of things. Because they're not paying for the other stuff. Right. So they can spend the money on that really, really cool Pinterest backdrop. They saw. So I'm getting a lot of that. Like, could, was, would you be able to do that and I'm, you know, I'm all for it. Sure. Let's do it. So that's, that's always fun. You know where to start. Like I always recommend starting with a color or a style that really resonates with you and then, you know, going forward from there. Because, you know, once you start picking and choosing each little flower that you want it, just mother nature just will throw your plans. Right? Up the side window. Not controllable. They're not going to have troubles and we've had such a hard time. And getting products and having. Like we have hard goods. We have to buy for events and things like that. Those have been delayed, even getting like, I don't often, but like when stuff has to get shipped in from other parts of the country or even out of the country, it's just been so hit and miss. And with live product that's really. But it's an issue. You know, sitting in a box for two days in some warehouse. And it'll be dead by the time you get it. So. A lot of people are leaning towards moving to a local flowers. I've had a lot of couples ask about that and I'm a full supporter of our little slow flowers movement. Which is we try to buy American ground. We try to buy as local as possible. And I've actually, you know, to, to cut costs. I'm kind of thinking about growing a little bit more stuff. This year as well. I mean, not that it cut costs, but like it's, it gives me the control of that variable about like stuff not being in seat. You know, available. It just gives you more. Choices. So. And I would agree with everything that Gina said. And to that same point I have also because I live on the Island in a rural area. I do have a garden and for years, What gardening is how I got into flora street. Actually the one what came before the other, but one of the things that people can start thinking about is. I love incorporating live plants into, into designs. I just think it gives you that surprise, like a pansy in the middle of a book. Hey, it's not. This, not a pansy. That beautiful, delicate cluster on that, you know, It's it's. I mean the way I usually try to work as this is the standard and what else can I put in there? That's going to be now? What is that? You know, because that's what I want to bring that surprise and delight. And so one of the things, if people want to be thinking about what can I do is. How can I incorporate plants? How can I, you know, utilize that will, you know, ask your designer, would you use real life plants? You know, can we do this? Do you know how to do. You know, how could we make this so that. It can be more eco friendly. Like start thinking about not just what color, what flower. You know what shape. But what is it take away that what is the overall. Concepts that are not commonly used beforehand, that we could incorporate into our wedding to make it really special. And the only thing that I would say. And I do this as well with my clients. Anyway, is. Get out of your head, what flower you want? Yeah. Shake s**t. That lifts. Right? Because designers who know their stuff. I know how to create the look you want. Oh, the flower. Is not the situation. It's the overall. Aesthetic of, and the mood you're trying to create. Now we can do that. With a variety of options. So it's, so if you know how to design, you know how to make that work for them. And so I don't know that people are aware of that. Yeah. I think that's a tough one for them to grasp. See the Pinterest picture. I think it has to have that. 4:00 PM. Right, right here, here, here. Yeah. But it doesn't like you could take those out and use something else. It's it's I really like in us to chefs. I don't know if that makes sense. Right. Creating a recipe. Literally. And we adapt. To create recipes for it, but, you know, Everybody has a different way to make their mom's meatloaf. Right. So one, designer's going to add onions, one hates onions, and isn't going to use them. So it's all, it's all different. But to get the same result. I would say one more thing that I would ask the brides to, or the couples to think about is really get in touch with what is your priority? I often have. Brides who say, you know, I just want my vocation to be the most glorious, beautiful thing. And I'll say, but I know that I don't have very big budget. I said, you're going to get that. Yeah, you're going to get that. Okay. And even if your bridesmaids only carry something very small and simple and your centerpieces are simple, that thing pick the thing. Yeah. That's a good advice. And do one, two, three, if I could have. Anything I want, if I only could have three things, one is my number one. Yeah. What is my number two? And what is my compromise? And coming from that viewpoint, it really sets a boundary. It does. You're setting yourself a boundary and I have the same with my kids. Boundaries set you free. Because it really helps you be close to what it is you truly want. Cause they do get all this other input. Yeah, but if they're coming to me and it's like, okay, let's talk about what you really want just for you. And it can be different for every person. I mean, I have a bright spot. I just want this gorgeous photograph. Yeah. I want the Arbor. I want that picture. I want the sunset. I, that is the money for me. That's what I want. And the rest, I just want to party. Yeah. You know, so everybody, like you said, it was different, but that is a really good way to approach your wedding. Yeah. It's the music. You know, it's and that's. You know, I talk about, I probably don't talk about this on the podcast. As I go about this a lot, you know, to the couples that I consult with, you know, we have a pre-wedding questionnaire you're right. That we send out, like before the weddings and. One of the things we have them go through is a shot list, right? Like you guys talk about, you know, listing these things, whether most important. And the story I always share is the first time I ever did this. You know, cause you, it goes through the day and the details getting ready, you know, family photos. You all, everything you could think of for a wedding. And it has the like cocktail hour guests dancing, couple days. And all this stuff. And when the first couple Danica and Phil. I filled it out and I get it back and it's like, you know, cocktail photos, 10 guests mingling 10. Right? And I'm like, but then like portraits one, right? Like, okay, well maybe they, maybe I have this wrong or they, whatever. And I've talked to them about, I go, Hey, so you guys, you're ranked all your couples, photos really low, but you guys really want, it seems like you guys really want a log of like cocktail hour and stuff and they go, yeah, because. Yeah, we've gotten the law school all over the country. We have to, I mean, this was back a couple of years ago, you know, we have 250 people coming in. We haven't seen all these people in, you know, 10 years. You know, we want, we don't care about us. We get photos of us all the time. Right. But we want to remember all this stuff. Right. And I go. If I hadn't have asked you that. Right. And we hadn't gone through this process, I would not have known that at all. And like you guys said, you know, I figuring and it's different for everybody. And so that, that's my point to get back to your original, you know, what you were talking about is, you know, Those three things for you are different than that. And so, you know, who am I as a videographer to know that, you know, the shot of your wedding shoes is the most important thing in the world, right? Or, you know, your grandmother made this cake and you really want shots of all of that stuff or whatever. I think zoom was catching up there, but anyway, it's just interesting. So, yeah. Anyway, I think that's a wonderful point to pick those things and go through that way. Gina. We had talked about. Spending. Being able to spend more money, you know, eco-friendly, that's kind of a trend right now. Is that with people may be having the potential of having more money in the budget for, you know, forums and things like that. Are they, is it, is it like, this might be a dumb question, but it's not like buying like organic fruit at the store. Like, it's the better thing to do. A little more expensive. It can be. It's not necessarily more expensive to buy local flowers. And that's what I would equate organic food too, is our local market flowers. You know, when I say local market, I mean, the growers that are from, you know, Northern Washington. Right in our backyard, we have so many really great growers. All over Washington, but to the point, yes. It is similar. I mean, we can totally do locally grown fully in season. You're going to get the most bang for your buck with locally grown product. But as far as like the alternate side, that the couple doesn't see as the mechanics. What you're using to create these designs is it's important as well. And it, Tina. Little more labor intensive. It is it's labor intensive to make it that way and make it more eco-friendly. But hopefully, you know, once the floral industry gets on this train and catches up with the rest of. I don't know humanity. You know, maybe we'll have some really easy to use products, but right now, you know, we have this thing called like the floral diaper. It's all compostable products. So you would basically. Makeup. Okay. Wrap those stems and like a little diaper and it goes in a compostable bag and you could attach that to the Archway. But there's a few other products that we've been yeah. Rebecca is more experimenting with them. I haven't received my box of it yet, but there's. Like a wool based. Floral foam. Because a lot of Flores right now are trying to get away from using floral foam. And I get a lot of brides to ask, like, do you use floral foam? And I'm like, well, a lot depends on what you want to, because in some. Instances it is necessary, but in others, I mean, if a bride wants to be fully like no foam, eco-friendly, you know, it, we can make it work. Right. It's figure out if we can make it work. But there is a little bit more labor to make it, you know, To make it work. Yeah. It's time. We're engineers. Yeah, we are, we literally are in jarring things like, and, and we'll look at some like, Oh right. Let's let's brainstorm how we make this work because we're definitely can-do girls. Yeah. We're like, do the research. What can we use that is biodegradable the least impact on the environment. And, and we'll like with the reuse and reduce and use eco-friendly whenever possible, what is the time and labor to dismantle? To be able to do that. Yeah. Because this can be recyclable, but it doesn't matter if you don't recycle it. So we always try to do the whole picture in mind. So your comparison to organic. Food is, is actually spot on. I agree. It's really actually, I liked that. I don't know why we didn't think of that before. What's it been like, you know, obviously, you know, we're in a more unique situation than, you know, DJs and stuff. You. There's been some more regulations with, with being aware. Right. Like I can still film. You know, a wedding it's smaller, right. You know, ceremony, you guys write, being able to improvise, do these micro weddings, you know, mountain elopements, the rest of it. What's it been like for you guys, you know, navigating through that and lessons learned, you know, advice that you have for couples or other vendors. I mean, I know there's a ton of different ways you can take that, but you know, we're, we're in a more unique situation than some people where there's always something for me to film. Even if it's one hour or 10 hours, there's always a need. Right. For, you know, Some sort of centerpiece, a bouquet. A boot, you know, obviously not to the scale maybe that we're used to, but what are you guys' thoughts on that? I don't know. I mean, it's, it's hard. Like, I feel like you are. You're using the flowers to create more of a mood. And it's strange because I feel like we're the last to find out about the party, you know, like Hmm. We come in, we set up, but we don't really know, like, are we doing this outside today? Are we, are we inside? Like, I the last wedding I did, I was like, we were waiting on the rain. You know, we were like, yeah. Is it gonna rain? Is it not gonna rain? Go ahead and set it up. So, you know, we just kind of go with the flow. It's it's tough, but. Yeah, you gotta make do with what you, you can. And I, and I would to answer your question, I think this was a question about. What would we suggest couples to keep in mind? As going forward. I would suggest go in with an open mind. Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing. From from a day of, from. We're kind of going away from the, this is my list. This is my rule. This is what I want. And it's gotta be just so indebted at a de it's more like, okay, we're gonna make this work. Let's see. And so often when you let go of that rigid thinking. You get something so much better? Yeah. That's very true. So much better. So go forward, proceed forward. Like number one, figure out what what's your top three. And proceed with an open mind and say what can be done because, you know, we know. Well, I think we can do just about anything. Yeah. We have the wherewithal and the time and that, you know, we are, we literally our engineers. Yeah. And, but I also just want to make another point that a lot of people. A couples do not recognize that. There are different. Scopes to floral design. And. It's okay to try, you know, you want to have that relationship. You want to have that right fit. Oh, yeah, there are brides who say, and I even have it on my questionnaire. It's like from one to 10 similar kind of thing, it's like a, where do you fit in? And it's like, I know exactly what I want. And that is exactly what I want. Or I trust you do your thing as long as it's within the range. That's my ideal customer apps. Cause then there, you, you know, you're going to be able to give them exactly. You know, something that they're going to love. But so if they come to it with an open mind, There's more that we can get. Absolutely. You're going to get so much. So much more when you say having, I have to have it this way, because. That is, you know, One person's mile is another person's marathon. So, yeah, I would say open-minded is a really big deal. Yeah. And that was the point I was going to make before too was when you were talking about it, it's more like a chef, right. That you see. You see this look at, you know, and it's for anything for photography video. [unknown] anything, you know? You need to trust the experts, right? Like you guys said, you know, it doesn't necessarily matter, you know, what is that two flowers out of the three or whatever to get you that you're looking for that mood. And that's the same way, you know, with us, you know, I have these clients and obviously it's a case by case and we have plenty of them where. Shoot a bunch of stuff and we go through. Yeah. They, they pick the things that they want for whatever, but it's when you get to, I get some of these couples and corporate clients sometimes where you get too in the weeds, they get too in the weeds and you're like, well, you know, From this, to this, and we need to move it here and we need to do this and this and this and this and this. And I'll be like, well, but in this could be for like corporate stuff. Well, the, we need to do a 62nd thing or whatever for Instagram. So now it's a minute 37, right? Or like we've totally lost. Even like the train of. Or either you wanted to five minutes. You know, like you just get to. You get too in the weeds and it's, and it's weird. And like all talk with Dorothy, my wife about that a lot. She'll be like, Oh, how's it going? I got like, they've gotten too in the weeds now with this. Like there are two anyway, and there can be the same with forest. You just get too into it and believe me, I understand that the need for control and, and wanting to have things and having the vision, but. At some point, like you said, you know, it's the chef and you need to, you just can't get kids and you really do get lost in it. And I've had some where they've got lost and then it's like, you're, they're totally off the cliff. And they've never been, never come back. Right. Like. It's a weird, you get what I'm saying? Like you almost put yourself kind of in that. It's a weird, yeah. It definitely shoots you in the foot. That's for sure. You know, we talked about, you know, the eco thing. I know Gina and I talked on the podcast about. Maybe large bouquets. Being out, what are some other design elements, things that you see more, INTREN now more in Vogue that you guys are being asked more to do. Yeah. Yeah, we did talk a lot about trends. I am seeing a lot more people leaning towards, you know, different shapes, like. It's still in that genre of very open and loose spoke. Hey, but it's maybe got a cascade this direction, or like maybe explains a little bit and it's shaped differently. I still think that we're kind of trending towards not huge. Bouquets anymore. And that kind of fits along with the people being a little more eco-conscious and curating their bouquets to make a meaning out of it. Like, you know, I had a bride a while ago. She. Wanted snowdrops in her. Okay. And those were very special in the sentimental to her. And you know, that's chat. I was like, Emily, once no drops, she gets no drops. So, you know, just finding something that has a little bit more sentiment. I mean, it just, it encompasses everything. Like the whole ceremony is going to be a little bit more sentimental. You can do more with it, but all the way down to like the boot near the ribbons. The pin on, like maybe you have your grandma's heirloom, right? She can't be there so you can incorporate maybe her brooch or her wedding rings. And I get a lot of rides. You want that? And it's very easy to do. Like if you have some things sentimental, you need put into a bouquet. It's we can do that. And I think that it just, it's the same thing that the bouquets are. Slowly. With the curated wedding package. Becoming more artisan. Yep. Which means we are putting a little more style into it a little more. It's not just. I don't mean I never just throw together a hand tight. But it's not just a simple hand time. Right? If it is. It's artful. It may be, you know, as you said, a specific flower that's concentrated in an area or, you know, yes. We're going to do a. If your grandma loved the pansies, then we're going to make, find a way to make that work. Violet's same kind of deal. Even just different textures and elements that you wouldn't say, like maybe. Maybe you can put some really pretty yarn, like in Lovin. Yeah. Other textures and elements have always been really, really huge and other, like, you know, in the European market. But I think we're starting to see a little bit more of that trickle and florists are actually having to start learning their trade. And figuring out how to do more than just a basic hand side, which I'm all for. Like, I think that's an amazing achievement to be able to make something that's considered arts. You know, instead of just a fluke. Right. I made a bouquet of flowers and the side, the side though, too. To an artisan. Say bridal bouquet and Gina and I are both European train. So we both have our European masters. So the beautiful thing about something like that for a bridal bouquets. Is when the flowers are gone, you really do have a keepsake. Yeah. You have the, the dominant. And all the elements. And you could conceivably every year on your anniversary. And I do tell people this, you keep that form. You can put that innovation and it's set up so that you could put flowers into it and say, Hey. No it's is it going to look like what we did? Probably not, but that's, that's, it's going to be something that you take on with you if you choose to. So that's just another way to make it. Especial it's another, another option. And I do see things becoming a little more curated and artisan. Absolutely. Yeah, just it's you. It goes back to the, you know, the ceremonies and the bouquets, all that stuff where, you know, and, and believe me, I deal with it with video all the time where, Oh, we it's, I need to did. And we're not going to watch it. And with four girls, right? Like, well, that's going to go away or it's going to die, or it's not going to like, He spends, you know, and I say that about food all the time. I mean, you spend the money on this food and people, but, but you know, having good. Yeah. For old stuff, especially that is in, you know, every photo of everything, of any kind. Right. No matter whether that's the manager of fits. You know, if it's your portraits, if it's a ceremony, if it's the reception, if it's the groomsmen stuff, if it's right. But it's an, it's an every single thing. And so it's. It's just interesting to meet, you know, and obviously we talk about, you know, prioritizing your things, but if that is something you care about, no, that, that is like this overarching thing in it. Every aspect of your day. You know, It's going to be an every photo. You look at it in one way or another, the decisions you make, right. And the money you spend or don't spend any energy that is spent or not spent. Any thoughts on that? Yeah, I actually have had rights and that didn't. Come to that realization until I told them. You know, not just bright couples, couples who don't think about that concept. And it's a very important concept and it's like seeing a light bulb, like, or like, you know, the emoji exploding head emoji, like. You're right. Like that is literally going to be in every photo that I have for the rest of my life. I will be showing my grandchildren. Or, you know, hanging these pictures on the wall. Like I, why. A good looking. Okay. Or boot. Boot near, or, you know, some gorgeous flowers in your hair. Like. You want that memory? Like. I still agree. And we both said it exactly true. And, and one of the things that I do when I'm showing with my practice. I actually designed for the photo. Yeah. I designed for the photo. Like I'm the, my mom, my kids think that it drives me crazy them crazy to get a full picture for the family. Cause I'm like, Oh no, I'll go to the left because there's this, like, you're going to have the stick coming out of your head. That's by the lamp behind you. Right. A little here, like I'm designing for the photo. I'm looking at the overall. Experience. And when I'm trying to explain that to the bread, sometimes I'll say, okay, show me, like, show me a picture of a dress. A beautiful picture of a dress. And we look at this beautiful picture of a wedding dress. I said, now, That's beautiful. Now you put flowers with it, overlay that picture with a bouquet. Do you see the difference? And this was in the day when we didn't have interest in internet. Cause I'm old. So I didn't. But it's the same thing now electronically. I literally did it with paper so they could see this is beautiful, but once you've put that okay. On top of there and I literally would cut them out of magazines and set it on top of there so they could go. Hi for doll style. I did. Cause if I'm telling you I'm old, They would have that visual impact was so powerful, and that is how they were able to go. Ah, right. And then, you know, the same thing with the music, essentially. Like it's the same thing. It's like, okay, you have this party and it's beautiful. And you're sipping tea and champagne. And. And everybody is experienced this. Okay. What does it feel like? Well, it feels like this, and then you turn on this music now, what does it feel like? It's. That it's just another thing as professionals, they deserve responsibility to guide them so that they can get that thought in their head. And a lot of people don't do that. No, it's not. It's either not taught or it's not a skill or it's not natural for them. But I think it's really important. And I think when you're working with clients like that, they get it and they get you and then you have that connection and you know that you're going to have that trust. Unfortunately to get that visualization. Yeah, we have a just, and not to, you know, Now that you want to like overthink and freak out about everything and every filter, but it is something to think about. We have a, we have a little bit earlier this year, a small wedding and really, you know, pretty, he was great looking. She's great. You know? Have the hair going have this, you know, it was like this tight dress. Like it was just looking gorgeous. Right. She's getting ready. And I could see her. And she was, she like pulls out this like Tiara kind of thing. Out of nowhere. Right. And it's one of those, I mean, you know, that's, it's great. Look, you know, it's whatever it was one of those, like, Maybe if it had been 15% more expensive, right. It would've looked, you know, 80% more better. Right. Kind of thing. And you could see, and she was kinda like, Oh, I don't like as you put it on and putting it off and put it on and put it off. And I'm just sitting there in my head screaming, like do not put this on. Right. Do not because, cause I know, right, this is Kaylee. It's going to change the look of every photo, right? It's going to change the vibe of your dress. It's good. And I'm a guy like I don't even know all the intricacies of all. But you caught it though, right there. Ta-da you saw her doing this? That. Right there. The fact that she's uncertain, she should wear it. She's going to be uncomfortable all day long and that's going to affect her pictures too. And so she's kind of looking at it and she's like, ah, I mean, she, you know, we had done a lot of our stuff. I mean, she wasn't like, she knew me really well, but that was just like, you know, I said, why don't you like, I'll just let me just put it in my pocket. Right. Let me just put it in my pocket. Like, we'll go out and start doing photos. And like they, when did the first leg of my, like, I left that. I mean, man, we never went back to it. But, you know, But it goes with all of this where it's, it's these decisions you make. And like I said, not to stress about it, but you know, it's the same with the flowers, right? If, if you, if you have a cheaper, it can boot near whatever it's going to be an everything for the rest of either for your life. Right. Printed on your wall. Like you said, whether you're showing your grandkids or not, there'll be printed somewhere. There'll be on your. Everything. Yeah. You need to think about that stuff. I also have to think about, I mean, not only like, not only on the cheap. Cheap again, vocare boot near, but like, what if you are a smaller person? Yes. You want that giant ass? Okay. Sorry. I don't know if you can say that if they ask. I swear. Anyways. You don't wanna look like you're holding a tree, like, come on. You need to make sure you're, you're trusting the florist with the proportions that you need, you know, taller people can pull off very long cascade. Okay. A five foot person. Probably not the best choice. And we're here to help with that as well. Like the reason we ask what this is, dress look like. Yeah. It's a very important key. What into their body type and why, you know, if we're going like, Are they going to have a long train, even for the boot nears? Like if you're not having a bouquet, like what if your boot near doesn't match your suit? Or like, what if you have the same, if you don't want it to feed in. I mean, I treat the boat near as just important. It's okay. So I, I like to incorporate them and make them. Special as well, but yeah. Yeah, you really need to trust. That your professional. Understands what you're wearing. The overall overarching theme and, you know, it's important. It really is because that shows up to you. Yeah, that's a really good point, Gina. And that's like, even in, when we're talking about a trend of moving towards artisinal artisinal bouquets. We're not leaving the guys out. Yeah. Like we're talking about a cohesive package. And so whatever, like when we're designing stuff, Like. The usually the bridal bouquet comes first. And then how can we create an autism? Boot near. So that, that picture matches. So if this book, Hey, has these flowers in it, and then you just do like just a basic standard. Road near. Weirdos like rubbish. We would not design that way. We would put, we're always looking at the overall picture. What is that going to look like? So, By my favorite boots near ours are the ones that are left in the hotel room. And then we get. Through your portraits. And then we have to go back and redo. The stuff that's out. It's my favorite. We do it. And then we're like, Oh, we gotta redo that. We gotta redo all the guys now because we forgot it. That's always my. I really, they really, it just lightens my day. I have to come back. Well to that, like if you're doing a drop-off and you're not putting it together, You know, you're doing a drop off and you're not there to execute the event. I usually like to pan out. Get the box and it's like, Oh my gosh. These people didn't get them. In the books and like all the kills me because. It hurts us to read. [unknown] I feel your pain. You know, what else bothers me is when Susan lamps from bridesmaids. Okay. On a chair. That one makes me mad. Because in their diet, Karen, whatever her name is. Yeah. Share and it's dead. An hour. This has been fun. This has been good. I I'm glad that Gina, that we could connect again. And Rebecca, I'm glad that we could get you on as well to share some insights. And we'll have to get you on to get to know your wedding pro here as part of your. Q1. Content planning schedule. Well, thanks for having me this. It's been really fun. Nice to meet you as well. If you got, if people want to learn more about both of you guys, your styles, everything, please plug away anywhere where you would have them check out to kind of see all the different stuff you guys are working on. Sure. So I'm from the ground up plural.com. If you're listening to this and you're a florist, who's looking for more floral education, I have a. Other websites from the ground up for all.media, I have classes and courses and Rebecca. I'm Rebecca Raymond floral.com. And it's Rebecca Raymond floral, or at Rebecca Raymond floral on Pinterest, or excuse me on Instagram. And I also do a little short at this point. It's called Tuesday at 10, and it's an Instagram live where it's basically behind the scenes in my studio. And my design process. And what I share. It's not, it's not scripted. It's Rhea. As my daughter says, mom, it's the stuff behind the curtain. That's what people want to know. I go, Oh, they want to see my mess. Well, great. Well, hopefully we'll. This'll be one of many conversations here for the next year, trying to figure out this content schedule with everything going on, but I really appreciate it. You know, giving some ideas for a couples. Yeah, planning and trying to figure out how to elevate these smaller weddings. And that's really, like I said before, that's what we're all about right now is making the best out of it, elevating what we can and really, you know, making all that stuff be great. So thanks again and stay safe!

Episode 28 - The 2021 Wedding Season and The Vaccine Pt. 2

Well, well, good morning. Thank you guys all so much for being here. I really appreciate it's. It's a ton of faces looking back at me. The last couple ones of these we've done have been a large groups and that's so exciting. Thank you guys all so much for coming on to give a little context today for our best mate weddings podcasts. Two weeks ago, we did a vendor focused discussion. NBC news ran an article talking about 20, 21 weddings, the vaccine. Optimism, you know, what are our thoughts about that? And so I called a bunch of wedding vendors. We all came on and then we were joined by Holly, who is, who is a bride, has rescheduled many times trying to find the perfect date, you know, dealing with everything going on. And the goal always was to do a follow-up one of these with couples and brides, grooms, whoever they are, they're actually getting married to get their discussion, you know, their thoughts because. So much of the time it's it's vendors talking about what vendors think. And I do think we need to, I've done these before talking with couples and it's great to get their insights. So, thank you guys all so much for, for joining. We have Claire who is certainly no stranger to the, to the wedding planning podcast. We've done to get to know your wedding pros with her and her co-business owner, Jan. And then we have Jocelyn and Mercedes as well. Thank you guys all so much. Why don't we just start with Holly, why don't you introduce yourself and your significant other, and then we'll kind of go around and we'll get into kind of everyone's thoughts today. Sure. So I'm Holly and Joe. And we are on our fifth wedding date. And so currently you guys are scheduled for August of this year, August 9th. Perfect. August 9th. And then Claire, I, someone, like I said, I really do really appreciate you guys coming on because you do want both of those lines as someone that's definitely up on all the regulations and everything, but then also wants to get married and have the wedding of their dreams. So why don't you introduce yourself and your significant other. Well, I'm Claire. I'm Mike. And we are currently dated for August 14th. Of 2021 and we got engaged in January and thankfully. We always said we're getting married next year. So. Yeah. So far, we haven't had to reschedule and, you know, hopefully we, that. It stays that way. But as a business owner, I've definitely seen how many people are rescheduling. And just as a tidbit, we're not taking on events before February and now with. Things coming to light. It'll probably be closer to like, April before we would take any bookings. Yeah, we, we just had our first February canceled or not canceled, but they, they emailed me yesterday that they were going to do a midweek. You know, smaller thing that was, they were, it was going to be August 1st and then they moved it to February, which was great, you know, at the time. And then obviously now, Mercedes. Why don't you introduce yourself? Thank you so much for coming on. Hi, I'm Mercedes. I got engaged in February of this year. And we had already, already gotten our venue in November of 2018 or May 23rd of 2021. So. Sorry, not 2018. 2019. My bad. We currently are not living our dates. And where are you guys getting married? That cause that must be a good venue. We're getting married at born. One with castle down in Lakewood. Perfect. And Jocelyn, thank you so much for reaching out. You were kind of the impetus of this a little bit, you know, you had, you had seen the first one that we had done and you said, Hey, you know, I watched this and now we were having some second thoughts. So. Give us a little, introduce yourself, please. And give us a little context about your decisions. Sure. My name is Jocelyn. My husband and I got engaged December. Last year. So almost a year ago. Actually it'd be a year ago this weekend. And then January, we set the date for April, 2021. And we're like, Oh, great. You know, we're on the ball and then COVID hit and it's like, okay, next year. And then after seeing the last week's podcast, we decided it just, the vaccine's going to come out early, April, late March for the masses. And it's just a little too close for comfort. So we bumped it to September of 2021. Perfect. Well, thank you guys all so much. You know, I know this is a, you know, it's, it's personal things to talk about, you know, it's, it's definitely not the most ideal thing, you know, wedding planning this challenging enough as it is. So. I really appreciate you guys, you know, and, and I, we sat on the vendor one, this is just everyone's opinions, right. You know, in, in nobody's, you know, right or wrong, or if you're listening to this or if you have to. You know, and people are certainly, I know I changed my opinions on things, you know, a hundred times. And I remember Alan Chitlin, a friend of the show, he was on the other podcast. You know, we had said back in March, If this is going on in August, I don't even want to think about it. And now we are here almost at Christmas, so it's definitely, you know, everyone's subject to change. Holly, I guess just cause you were on the last one. You know, takeaways from that discussion moving into today, you know, you, you shared a lot about. Not frustrations, but just, you know, kind of moving things along and rescheduling. What are your thoughts now? We're, we're two weeks removed from that. And we had the first kind of [unknown]. They wheeled it out like a heavyweight title belt. Right. They have the vaccines on the car that I saw online this week. How are you doing? Well, I have to say from the last podcast, if anyone is watching this and hasn't seen that one, they should definitely watch that one because it opened my eyes a lot to the vendor side, which I already thought I was pretty like understanding and compassionate about, but then there was more things I was like, Oh, I didn't think of that. So I just think everyone's wanting to support each other right now. It would be helpful for other brides and grooms, listen to that podcast and kind of understand how. How these pieces of the puzzle fit together, but we're optimistic. I mean, the vaccine is like, people are getting it. We're hoping to hear that like good things are coming from that. But we're all, but we stay positive anyways. And that's how we've been able to do five different dates and yeah. Thanks wrong. So. Claire. We're where you, where you walk both lines. I mean, how has that been for you guys? Kind of going through all of this? I can't. I'm trying. I know 'em. I it's ready. I know another vendor that's getting married right now to this talking about what's it been like for you? I mean, I can't, it, it was tough enough for me to do it five years ago without everything going on. So what has it been like? I mean, so we got engaged in January and of course that COVID hit what, like March ish is really kind of when we had to start thinking about what it might mean for us. And since I do. Event planning as well as the party on the rocks, bartending and staffing. I kind of had everything planned up. Except for like desserts. That's the only thing we still have to do. I mean, I did my wedding dress shopping in a, in a mask and that was definitely different. But I will say the one real big benefit I've noticed for us is that I know. The questions to ask, because I know what my contract is. And so making sure that like every single vendor I asked before we put a deposit down. Like what if we do afternoon? Like, I know it's an August and I don't want to have to move, but what does it look like for us? And what does it look like for you? Yeah, in case we do, and most vendors already had, you know, Free moving of dates and things. But for example, like our hotel block, they weren't going to have any sort of ability to move the date until we asked about it. And they're like, Oh yeah, we'll add a rider on for that. And so it definitely was. Yeah. Yeah. And we had, like, we had our venue, we had our planner before, like really toxic COVID, but like a couple of other, our other vendors we didn't. And so they. Have like COVID specific things in their contract. And if you, if you guys have any questions or anybody else to get a feel free to ping me and let me know about that. Mercedes. For you. What has it been like, kind of going through this? I can only imagine either, maybe give a little back, you know, background about what you have going on. And then you're obviously I want this as much as anybody, right. To have, you know, we, we want to all be on, on, you know, going forward. He made it, so, so talk us through what's going on. So we. I'm a crazy person. We, I found my wedding dress and the venue in November of 2019. We weren't engaged until February of 2020. So we had already kind of set our date. Gotten the big, the big items out of the way. I had actually been talking to our caterer since November of 2019 as well. I had a tasting scheduled with our caterer in April. Obviously that didn't happen. So we had already kind of been planning. I had my coordinator by that time. So it was, it was weird to have kind of a bigger parts. Finished. And kind of that date set and then COVID happened and. Both my fiance and I, our thought process was, Oh, well, you know, it's a, it's a year. If a year, a little year and a half away, like we should be fine. Vaccines to hopefully be coming out. So I actually got put on standby during COVID. During the quarantine shut down. And that actually was really great for me because I planned my whole wedding. It was interesting. Trying to do things during that period of time. Our cake samples. We had to go pick up and taste at home. I had couldn't do with sample with my keto, like a tasting with my caterer. I did a lot of virtual calls with vendors to try to meet them and kind of figure out if we were on the same page. So it was definitely a different experience. I think I actually got my wedding dress back from the designer during COVID. Tried it on did my first sitting at my house, freaked out. It was wrong. But like, I didn't have any avenues to like, bring it back to the boutique right then. Cause I couldn't go to the boutique. So it's, it's been kind of stressful. But we were kind of, you know, kept going with, with the date because we weren't hearing anything from our vendors at the time. That we. Didn't think we could have it in may. But really on my end. I've been very clear with my vendors every time that should, the restriction does not allow us to have the event. We will postpone. So we're not gonna do anything that jeopardizes any, anybody else's personal beliefs. Business license, any of that kind of stuff. If we can have it, if we can't have our 115 people, we're not going to have it at all. And we'll push it. We'll get married. Legally, and then we'll have our party. Later on. So we're trying to be aware of that fact as well. What is. Most of it's family, honestly. I'm adopted. So I have a really big family. It's an open adoption side, both sides. So we're hoping that things are, are fine. Everyone in our family knows like this is kind of what we're planning, but be prepared if we have to postpone. So, I don't know, that's kind of where we're at and. I've been talking to my coordinator. I've been talking to the caterer. I've been talking to kind of all of our vendors. We're really waiting to hear. What Washington actual distribution plan is because we have that draft that they submitted, but we haven't really got affirm kind of timeline. Now that the vaccines are being administered. We're hoping that the governor comes out with that information. In the next. You know, few weeks. And then our kind of our first step in January as to follow up with our venue to see. If they heard anything, I actually have a second job. I work at a country club that is a venue venue. So I have a little bit of insight there. They actually just pulled all of their brides. That they are not expecting to have a group larger than 30 until September of next year. Not because they've heard anything, but that's just kind of like, what they've said is their standard. So wait. Kind of just playing it by ear right now. Yeah, it stuff. And like you said, you know, you don't want to jeopardize, it's so hard and this is even something in my, my brothers. Girlfriend her, her family, I believe it's her brother was getting married and they had a wedding last weekend in Utah. And it was one of those things were. It was really hard for my brother and his girlfriend. And he ended up not traveling. She was going to travel cause it was in Utah and that it's a little looser there and it, you know, it's one of those things where you are. And like you said, Mercedes, so you don't want to put anybody in any situation, which is great because it did feel like. It was putting people in the situation, right. Asking them to like travel, especially either a lot of people were out of town and going in. And, you know, my brother's like I did live at, you know, he's he takes all this very seriously. He goes, I've lived at my house for five months and now I got to go be like an usher at this wedding. Right. And it's like a very, it's a very stark, you know, where I go out and do a little bit more filming and stuff than he does. Jocelyn. What about you? I, you know, I hate to say that, like, you know, I saw your message first. I was like, Oh no, but, but, but right. I mean, we want to, we're having these discussions and be educational it's August through either you saw the podcast and what, what were your thoughts about it? Watching it. So leading up to the podcast, we were kind of being hopeful. We were going to wait till after the holidays. Yeah, January, February, before making the decision. My family is incredibly small. Like eight people counting me. But my husband's family is huge. He's got big family on both sides, but some of my family has medical conditions and he's got, you know, aunts, uncles that are a lot older. So it was kind of, we were going to wait and see. But then after seeing the podcast and hearing how people rescheduling or having to potentially go to weekdays to reschedule instead of weekends, And we really want it to be a weekend. And then hearing the, I don't remember her name. I think it was Rebecca. That she had and working with Inslee and that they were projecting the mass vaccine going out late March, early April, and then Dr. Fowchee. On the news had said the same thing and I was like, okay, that's a little too close. We're looking at about a hundred person wedding. So I immediately called her venue. We're doing the command center and command on Island. And like, do you have a date? Like, yes, that's actually the last Saturday we have available in September. It's like, okay, we gotta do this now. If we want to have that date. So we did that and then it was just going through the various vendors, which they've all been fantastic and less than a week, we have everything moved. They they're not charging us any extra. No additional costs for the new date or anything. It just like caring for Sonya the new contract. We're good. Yeah, just keep us updated. Was that a relief to know that you were moved on or was it because it's, you. It's heartbreaking. But it's also like it was a breath of fresh air there. It was a bit of both. So I'm a to-do list person. I literally wrote down the vendors I needed to contact and start checking them off the list. I fully expected to be one of those horror stories I hear about where the vendors are super difficult. And it's going to cost you more and it's not going to be available and then have to scramble for new vendors during COVID. So I was really surprised how easily it went through. And then after it all got moved, then it was kind of a little bit of grief that had to deal with as well. Not want to take depressed. I was very sad. Because it was only four months, total. Our date. I was so excited. You know, I already had the dress and everything. You know where I'd say we're 90% planned at this point. And now having to now it's nine months away. But we knew it's better for our families and everybody's health and I've got asthma myself. So it was, I knew it was the right thing to do. It was just hard decision to make. Yeah. I guess. There's a lot of different ways. I have a bunch of different follow up questions in my head, kind of where we want to go. I guess, first off is the idea that, that you all, it seems like want to have, you know, not, not these large, like huge, you know, 300% while he served, but we want to have, we're talking like, you know, 100% top, right. At least weddings. Right. So what is it? And maybe we'll go to you Claire, on this one. What is it about? Cause, you know, we we've been advocating on the podcast, you know, do the micro weddings, do the thing, do whatever. I mean, and believe me, like we had the wedding and I get all that too. So what is it about wanting to have that celebration and wanting to. You know, either reschedule or hold or do whatever to make sure you still have that celebration. Yeah, I think for us, it really is Mike's family. He's from New Jersey and all of his family is either in the East coast or in California. And otherwise, like basically we'd have like a 10 person wedding, which would be like my mom, my uncle, us, and like a couple of friends. So, what we've discussed is like, we, you know, Barring like apocalypse, we will get legally married on our date. We really like the date and like what it means for us. And then if we need to, we will push out a year. Which I went into a lope in the first place. So like, I'd be fine. But Mike wants to have, like, for him, it's like this big opportunity to like, not only show his family where he's lived for the last eight years, but like, they've done just a lot for him and being able to like the wedding is. The reception. It's about showing appreciation to all of these people and getting them kind of exposed to like our life and what we do. When it's. Pretty much, always us going to the East coast, which I don't mind a good trip to New York, but it's nice to have the opportunity to. Wine and dine them for a change. No, I think that's great. I think that's absolutely it. And that is probably something that gets lost in a lot of this. Right. Cause I do think that people. You know, vendors, especially look at it as like, okay, well, yeah. It's a little more cut and dry where, like you said, you know, this is this, you know, once in a lifetime opportunity, right? However, Everybody come. I absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Think that that is such a valid. You know what. Just something that gets overlooked. I think that's why I enjoy having conversations like this because we get to hear from things that we don't. I do think we get in this echo chamber sometimes with vendors. Holly, you guys, you know, famously right. I want to have this, this wedding that you want. You postponed now five times. What is it about that that maybe vendors are missing out where you guys still want to have that celebration that you've been and, and Joe, please. You know, for both of you guys, please feel free to answer. Well for me, I am the youngest of five. And so. I have a big family. And so the celebration part of it is. What we're looking for, what I'm looking for. For me, this is will be interesting. We're both very pragmatic. And it is no doubt. However you spin it. It's a lot of my, that you spend on your wedding. We went to the wedding show and we're like, I was just like determined. Like we are going to be so efficient about this. And at the end of the day, no matter which way we cut it, it's still at least $20,000. And so we really sat down and were like, Because obviously you can do other things with those, but without money. And so we're like, how is it worth it? And how do we want to be that we do want to spend that money. I do. I like really do not want to have the day look back and be like, Oh, it's over so fast and all that money, Scott. I want it to be over and be like, yes. And we would do it again. So we were very in like intentful about planning our wedding. So with all of that intent and purpose, and we do really want to spend that money on it, it, it means that much to us we've made it that fun and we've made it that special. And that's why. We've postponed so many times because we, we did think about a loping it's for us. It's not like we don't need all the attack. It's not about attention or anything like that. We would be fine just getting married just to us, but we've made it more and we're sticking to that. I'm mercy is I see. You're nodding your head quite a bit. So feel free to, to share your thoughts as well about, you know, wanting to have what, what you've been looking forward to. Yes. So similar to Joe, I'm the youngest of six. But on my adoptive side, but I'm also the oldest. Child on the other side, on my birth family and it's an open adoption. So that's kind of like a really important thing for me. I it's something that I can share with them. I don't, obviously I don't actually share a ton with them cause they are. They're not kind of my first family, which sounds terrible, but it's kind of my family. And then my, and then my birth family. So sharing that moment with them kind of at the same time. As my adoptive family is important for me. And cause I've kind of always had to choose. Growing up like one or the other. I go this day to them. I go this day to them. I missed this holiday with them. So that kind of biggest moment of my life. Then even with them is really important. On the other hand it's my, my fiance is the only son on his side. So he's. The only boy, it's the, he's the first one getting married. So for his family, it's kind of a really great opportunity to bring his family together. And my family together they've never actually really met, but on the other hand, what Holly was saying was. You know, we're spending. I wish we were only spending $20,000. We're spending a lot of money on this wedding and I actually wanted to go to the courthouse first and just get married. We've been together for seven years. I was ready. Let's just do it. But my fiance. Was like, you're going to regret not doing something. Right. And so now at this point, we've put so much, I put so much time and effort into this and I want all of my family to be there, to celebrate with me. And the fact that we put so much money for us. A micro wedding is. Just kind of destroying all the hopes we had and it's. We're like, if we're going to do it, we're going to do a big, we're going to do it. Great. It's going to be this data. Everyone remembers it's going to be exactly are bougie selves. You know, and it's just something that we just can't see doing. Any smaller, honestly. And. We can kind of whip. Sending about 120, 115, 120 right now. That's about 15 of those people are, are all my nieces and nephews. So. We would nix them, honestly, if we needed to stay at like a hundred. But other than that, we're not, we're not going under, under a hundred. We just can't. Yeah, I think it's not, not to use the words like a sunk cost, but then it's right where you put so much time and money and energy to do this. And then, yeah, I absolutely. You know, feel free over that. Joseph. Same question to you just about, you know, having this vision right in your head. Something that you've looked forward to in talk me through that. So initially we were going to do kind of like a little, just, you know, Like elope. You know, Courthouse type of thing, and then have a big party hit. My husband's family is huge about parties. Like they have an annual family reunion type of thing to get together for a weekend. So it's a big to-do. And so I I'm the oldest of two and he's the oldest of two. His, his brother actually got married August of 2019. So it's like, okay, now it's our turn. We gotta throw a party. We figured out it was going to cost the same to have the venue we get the entire day to have it for just the reception as well as the ceremony. It's like, well, at that point we might as well have the ceremony too. We have, I don't know the actual count we're up for the wedding. It's probably going to be under 20 grand. We've done a lot of DIY. It's a Disney inspired wedding. So we've made all of our centerpieces. I crochet, I, then he does 3d printing and I painted pieces. We've gone to Goodwill and collected things. So like each of our tables is a different Disney movie. So I have boxes in my sewing room of set that I've crocheted and painted and they're just waiting. And lots of hot glue. I'd burned my fingers a couple of times, hot gluing stuff together. My mom's going to crochet my bookcase. We've invested all this time and effort into it. So at this point, canceling is not an option. Because I just hate to see all that hard work and effort and love. Put into it to go to waste. Aye. It's so nice to hear you talk about. Some of these special items, right? Like, you know, doing the themes and all that. I remember I would do anything just to have to think about those things again. Right. And not everything else that's going on. Like it used to be like, Oh man, What are you going to do with you? Whether you're like, okay, we're going to have this theme or do that thing, or we're going to do a Halloween, whether either we're going to do whatever. And now it's like, can we even have a wedding? Like I would do anything to be able to go back to, you know, To, to really that personalization I think is, is so great. And yeah, like you said, we're, we're just so much. It time, right? Time and energy. My question. I know Mercedes and Claire, you guys both mentioned. Your planners, right. Having, having coordinators right. Helping now, Holly. Did you guys have a, do you have a plan they're helping you? I can't remember. We were lucky we have a friend that's just, just helping. So we do have someone to consult. And then Jocelyn, you're a DIY a little bit more. Oh, yeah, I'm doing it all myself. Okay. I would say my husband gives a couple, you know, Oh, that's nice. Sure. Let's do that. But it's for the most part, it's me making the decisions and, you know, he helps pick up the vendors and whatnot, but yeah, I'm the one planning at all and I've never done this before. So. It's fun. I have a question, Claire. Is your, is your coordinator? Like if you're a coordinator planner, my coordinators just my day out so I can email her questions, but I can't really do much more than that. Yeah. So we are probably in the unique position. So we're working with Rebecca Grant. Our venue requires us to actually have partial planning. And at the beginning I was like a little happy, cause I was like, well, I know how to do this. Like, I don't need her to do all of that for me. And I'm gonna be honest, like she hasn't had to do a whole lot, but like just, it's also been really great that she's been the one working with like Inslee and. Like Jocelyn, you had mentioned hearing about that. And so I think we get kind of a bit more, like, I, I feel like we're just in better hands than like. When we decided to do this big wedding. I want to like it's it does kind of come down to the money thing. Like I was. I know me and I know that I would show up and like redecorate, if it wasn't the way that I wanted it to be. And I don't, I don't want to do that. Like I want. I, I do so much for other couples that like on my day. I want it to be able to, like, it doesn't have to be all about me, but I do want us to be able to relax and like, Actually get into it and enjoy. This thing that I've put together and we've paid a lot of money for. Yeah, it's. As someone that I literally had to like duct tape, Dorothy, down to be on a zoom call to meet, you know, we hired her back at two years ago, but to be like, no, please like. If we need to have a coordinator, but that would just be, you know, in my advice for anyone listening, either in Drosophila, it's so hard, the DIY. Having someone just being able to like, Be on the ball about stuff to be able to like have questions. It's so like, Isolating, I think sometimes to try to plan stuff and either you're second guessing things or you're in the, you kind of get caught in this thing. And, and so that would be, you know, or at least reach out or, you know, these podcasts and stuff to try to get some insights about that. Cause it is really hard to kind of keep up with everything and then also be planning. My questions. I guess for everybody, you know, we have all the couples on, what do you want? There's been so much, he had the vendors and we all talk and there's comments and we all commented on the article. What do you guys want? Like us. Other people didn't know or things that would be more helpful. You know, for you guys, if things were different or, you know, things that you've learned kind of through this, I know, I see everyone kind of ruminating. Anyone want to go first on this one? Sure. What I would say for couples who are going through the planning process, either they haven't set a date yet, or they have set a date and they're trying to be hopeful. Take it a day at a time. It is super easy to get overwhelmed. With trying to find vendors or trying to make that decision, trying to plan things at all. Take it step at a time. Maybe make yourself a list and just kind of baby. Step it through. Most of the vendors. In my experience, I can't say for the rest of you. Have been fantastic to work with. If you're talking to vendors, find out what the regulations and what they're covered procedures are ahead of time before you book them. So you kinda know the fine print. And I actually have like a folder with all my contracts and I write on it on them. When I call them or speak with them. I print the emails. I have everything in writing. I probably can't say they're not get everything in writing. Just to protect yourself. But yeah. If it's next person. Do you ever see is go for it and Jocelyn that's great insight. Thank you. I think a big thing for me is that I would tell other people is, is. Stay true to what you want. Right. I think that a lot of the stuff coming towards us, like we were talking about these micro weddings is pushing us to, to reconsider and duties, micro weddings. But at the same time, like yes. Be aware of the regulations, but like it is your day and hopefully you only get married once, right. Or. It is specific. At wedding don't want to be judgemental, but you know, like this is your day. It's something that you're doing for yourself. It's really, and be true to what you want for that day, you know? And for us, We want it. We want it to be amazed so badly, but if we can't share it with all the people you want to share it with, we're not going to have it, you know, but we will have it later. So I think for me during this planning process, it's been. Really being communicated with your significant other and, and really deciding what is important to you are all these people import, if they are. Then postpone, you know, and I think the other kind of end of that is being very clear with your vendors. I've talked to a lot of vendors. I follow a lot of vendors on Instagram that kind of puts on her stories sometimes. Of of brides not being honest. About their counts or about things like that or how they feel about COVID and. Being very conscious of other people's. Beliefs and opinions about what's happening and the restrictions put in place by the, by the. The state. Because you are. Putting them at risk, right. Health and business wise. Right? So don't tell them you're going to have a 30 person wedding. They show up and there's a hundred people there. That's not cool. So you're putting them in danger, their business license, their personal thoughts and beliefs on this. And so kind of both, you know, be true to yourself, but also be honest with who you're speaking with. That's good. Yeah, we, we have a couple issues to summer with that, and it does really put. And I know that we had one where the photographer had to had to bow out, you know, because of everything and it really did, but you know, Her and them and kind of everybody. Cause it's really hard when you say, well, we're, we're just going to go ahead with this. Right. Or, you know, maybe the venue is being whatever. And then if you have someone that's like, well, I can't, but then you're the bad guy, right. Even though you're trying to do maybe the right thing. Claire. What about you guys? You know? Advice. For other couples or vendors kind of going through this right now. I would say, check in with your vendors and find out what their timeline is. If they need to know a certain amount of time. Before. But especially at like, knowing that this is gonna affect their livelihoods, especially with like the small businesses that are run, like with people like me and you read is it affects us a lot more than the people who like. Can collect unemployment and all of those good things. So finding out when they need the, they need to know your new date. In order to like actually make it happen. I know for me it's we have like a team before COVID we were prepared to go into this summer. With 60 employees. And now I probably have like, 15 that'll stay on you for various reasons. Like, I know a couple of my employees had to like move or they had to, you know, get different jobs that like now, you know, they were like, we have a couple of people who work in festivals and now. They're working actually for past clients of ours. So I would just find out when, cause I think Jocelyn brought up a great thing, like mega list and include when your vendors need to know bias so that you can be like, okay, you know my wedding's in August, but I need to have a good plan by June. On whether or not. It's something that it's safe to do. Yeah. It's I I've given that advice so much on here. I think. And I talked with photographers that were like, well, I'm afraid to reach out. Right? Like Eva Ansley would come out with something and I'm afraid. I'm like, they know what's going on. Right. But like, they're afraid of, I reach out, then they're going to start thinking about it and then they're going to cancel. Right. Or then they're going to whatever, but I've talked with people there. Oh, I'm afraid rather than, like I said, they don't really know what's going on. Like you need to reach out and be communicative because they need to know that you, they need to know that, you know, what's going on because obviously you guys are planning the weddings, you know, what's going on. And so you need to know that your vendors also, no. Holly. What about you guys? And then I kind of have a followup question for everybody. Okay. Well, one thing I would say is for couples, like this is such a trying time and so many ways, and it's really an important time, especially if you're engaged to really set your relationship apart from the chaos around you. Right. Which is just going to set you up for life. So it's a good time to make sure that like, your relationship is strong and. You're not attaching all these meanings to like, if you can't get married, then it's just like, self-reflection time. I would say. And for vendors and talking to vendors like. Be open. Like, you know, I feel like there could be like a barrier up, right? Like with the vendors are kind of like afraid to reach out and stir the pot. And then maybe brides and grooms are feeling like afraid to talk to the vendor because they're like, you know, aware that they may be hurting them if they change their day. But like, We're human dealing with this, their human on the other side, dealing with it, like, let's just have an open conversation and say like, what is our, what is our desired outcome? And like, through some open discussion, like maybe some unique things could come from it. So just being like real open and honest, The only. Negative reschedule anything that we have this year. And I think I talked about it a little bit on the one that Holly was on, but it was, you know, when I had sent all these emails all year and then they came back with one email and it was like, yeah, this is what we are doing. And there's, you know, like there's no options and I'm like, Okay, well then that, then you did. Then this is what's happening, right? Because I have been very open all year. We have been open with everybody, you know, I think at that point I'm like, I have rescheduled, you know, and I know Claire, you guys have way more events, radio I've rescheduled, like 30 weddings. Aren't ready. Like you are not special in that regard. Right? We can have a conversation just like everyone else. Did, you know, as opposed to just saying this is what's happening. Segwaying off of Holly. This is actually going to be my next question about how has it been like with, with your significant others? Right. I, we did a podcast earlier this year. I will, I'll try to link it below. Greatest. McLeod is a, she does counseling and marriage therapy and all this stuff. We did a fascinating talk about what. You know, planning, weddings, balancing ideas with your partner, you know, dealing with Kobe, kind of all these things, you know, just kind of like how to live with someone and plan all this, and you're in quarantine and everything's going on. So what's it been like for all you guys? And then we have two sets here and there and then the other two. Maybe first for you, Mercedes. What's it been like? You know, going through everything with, with your. You know, I love him so much. No, it's actually, I'm kinda mentioned earlier. We're a little busy, so. We kind of went into this with him, telling me like, Oh no, a planet. Do it all, it's fine. I trust you. And then I'd bring him things and be like, why are you doing that? I'm like, come on. So there was a lot of, a lot of research on my end to get to a point, and then I show it to him. And he's like, well, I don't want to do that. So that, that was a little difficult. I probably had over a hundred invitations samples. We went through mind you, I picked five. He didn't like any of those buttons. We had two cake tastings. We had two catering tasting because it was a, Hey, I like this, but what about this? It might be better. Cause he's kind of particular. So. I think the big thing for us is like a lot of communication. I Mmm. And like making sure that he was paying attention when I talk to him because he's very busy and I would tell him something and I would think that that would. Thinking, and then I bring it up again and be like, I don't remember that conversation. So it's been a little, that's been, that's been tough, but we're, I mean, we're doing great eye. I'm back at work. So I'm out of the house every day. Now, since about may. So it's nice that we got all of this mainly done during kind of this shutdown in quarantine, but that's kind of how it was is, is me doing a lot of the labor labor work and then throwing everything in the trust started. That's great. Yeah. Joseph, what. What about you guys? Yeah, it sounds like a COVID planning, letting in is, is similar to it with a, with a, guy's not listening to Danny. Any wedding planning. Jocelyn. What about you? What's it. What's it been like? Dealing with all this stress and everything and where you guys had to reschedule. And I'm sure just all the, a lot of heartache in that way. But we had, I'd say 80% of it planned by early March. Just because I'm a go getter. I was like, okay. Less than a month after we were engaged, we had a venue. We had a date. And they're just kind of lining everything up. And we went to, I think, one last expo or early March, just as COVID was starting to hit, like before the max mint and mask mandate was a thing. And so we had met a videographer and a photographer at that expo, which we really hit it off with. So that was fantastic. So we came to a decision together really easily. The rest of it just more, you know, we've had some discussion on things, but he's very data oriented. So he's like once you've lived the spreadsheets. I, I call him the spreadsheet King. He likes to have all those data. I'm a list person. So. That we've both been working from home since well, since March, actually, and our office, we share the same office together. So he does his work and I do my job and the same office. I'm trying to get all that. You know, just, I hadn't put dates on a calendar of when deposits are due and. Of that. So the more info data stuff he's great with, but the color palette, that was my thing. I'm like, Hey, let's do Rose gold and Jade green. Okay. We agreed on Disney cause we both love Disney. So for the most part on things like truly needed his feet, his opinion on. You know, as I get that from him, but. It just been kind of sure, whatever you want, dear. Claire. What about you guys? What's it been like? [unknown]. Have you guys here to talk and kind of give your answers. It's been great. I love spending all of my time with him. I'm a little scared where we've gotten a little codependent, I believe. For two nights. And we spoke on the phone for like two hours each night, which was stupid. But yeah, no, it's what. That feels really cool to me is like, I feel like this is like a, make it, or break it time for couples either you realize like, yeah, I could spend the rest of my life with this person where you're like, Oh, I should get out of this. And I'm really glad to say that it's like just cemented what I already felt and even like, even more so. It's been really cool planning with him because I get all of that support. Basically whenever I need it. Earlier. Like maybe a month or two ago, I had the biggest meltdown on napkin colors. And so it was like no rental color or rental company in the greater Seattle area had dusty blue linens. And so it was just like, I had a meltdown. Of course it was not just about dusty. We Lenin's, but Mike was like, they're able to like, calm me down in the middle of this. And it was kind of like, okay. Yeah, you can order the Ukrainian dusty blue napkins. Etsy. So you have the color you want. I will admit, I did not quite understand the difference between the Marine napkins that they had in the dusty blue. That's you. It's like, yeah, but I. I laid it out for him. You can see them. It's very obvious differences. And he was just like, aha. So, yeah, no it's been it's, it's definitely been. I COVID as a whole is an awful thing and I wish it unknown. And I, I, you know, I wish there was something magical that we could all do to just like erase it from the world and all the pain that it's brought. And I really do feel like we have. We've gotten this experience that is also really special. For us, but that's because it hasn't hit us. And, you know, like his, his family living on the East coast. A ton of his like aunts and cousins. Did get COVID and like, some of them were really scared. Thankfully. They're all. Okay. And everything. And I, I get that a lot of people I've had worse experiences, but we want to make sure. I mean we've, we've had. Positivity out of it all. All right. What about you guys? Well for me, I enjoyed. Staying home, especially with her and. I allow them a home body. So I like to stay home. We really enjoy the time. And for. I'm like Jocelyn's husband, I'm the XL or guy. I like to see the numbers. See where it's all going and Kubosh it. If it gets above this number, And for me, I don't really care about the fruitfulness of color napkins or. Layouts. I just want to enjoy our time, have a stress free wedding. Just half the people around us have fun. Everything else. Whatever. It'll fade into the past. Yeah. So. I want to talk about silver linings. You. Having the extra time, you know, Jocelyn, you, you have an extra time. You know everyone else. Email, having extra time just at home. Like, you know, Claire said to kind of plan everything. I want to talk about, you know, silver linings, positivities from this, you know, something okay. Holly's already. So maybe we'll just circle back around that way. We'll go back to you guys real quick. Oh, that's just like what I was really like vibing with what Claire was saying is. We've definitely focused on appreciating like the good that has come or the good that we still have or whatever it is. And it's not at all to dismiss the bad that's going on, but it's a way to stay sane and. Stay sane and stay healthy. So I've enjoyed that about wedding planning during quarantine and these different things is just, Hey, we've had a lot of extra time to think about it. And when my gosh, when this way for all of us, when this wedding gets to happen, Is, I mean, it's just going to be like tenfold because everyone's going to be so excited and there haven't celebrated anything for a long time. Haven't really seen each other. It's just going to have such an extra, like magic in the air. So, you know, we're, I'm, we're all on the same page. Right? We're waiting. We are going to have the sick get together whenever it does have to happen. So. It'll just be even better. Claire. What about you guys? Silver linings. Ah, I don't know. I would say that. It's been great. Being able to, you know, spend the amount of time in like nine months that I probably would have gotten with Claire over like five years. Right. So I think it's great. We've got time to connect that we really wouldn't have, you know, if I was going into the office every day, Claire was doing events on the weekends, you know? Yeah. Yeah. We got more, we got a variety of experiences to where we, at the beginning of all of this. Bought a house out in the Leavenworth area and it was kind of a hot mess. So we have spent the last like nine months. Renovating it. And if you've never done a renovation project with your significant other, I highly recommend it to see how they. React under the duress of like needing to replace a shower. And it, I mean, it. It's definitely given us a lot of time doing that. To like really. Experience one another in an, in a way that we wouldn't have otherwise. That's good. I like that. Yeah. Mercy said that you guys. It's been really good. I think. I am normally a pretty busy person. I work a full-time job and a part-time job and I'm going to school. So the amount of time I spend with my fancy is minimal. But I think the quarantine portion of this, where we were stuck at home for a couple of months, I got put on standby. Obviously my second job I was. Food service. So it shut down. So I was home all day long, everyday. I wish I, it was good, but it wasn't good. He was busier than normal. So actually there was a lot of insulate, like insulation. That's not the right word isolation that I felt during that time. Wedding planning was a really good outlet for me because I love being busy and I wasn't, I play a lot of animal crossing. Lemme tell ya. So having the outlet for wedding planning was really good. It gave me something to focus on while he was so busy. And so that all that like kind of research and, and, you know, legwork that I did on all these things when I brought them to him. Yes. Although it bothered me when he was like, No, I don't trust you on that anymore. Let's do something else. It was still nice to kind of have those conversations and kind of work through them. And I had the time to do so. Without having that. I honestly don't know if the wedding would have been planned. I'm the type of person who writes an itinerary for vacation. So planning the wedding was really important to me and coins and gave me the opportunity that I wouldn't have had otherwise. But at the same time, like, yes. There was an isolation feeling for me there. But like, We've kind of found a new rhythm. I've been back at work. Since may working both my jobs that I actually do work. At another place that's opened and I am going to school 4.0 this quarter. But it's it's. We've gotten two new, new rhythm, which has been really good. And we realized even more. So we did a lot of virtual games with our friends. We realized even more so that we're the same person. We, we will say the same thing in these games will submit the same wording. We'll text each other and I'll be like, Oh, I was about to say that a little bit about to do that. So. It's been good kind of overall, even with the little kind of road bumps in the beginning, there. I asked Jocelyn with animal crossing. Jocelyn silver linings about all of this. If people can take away. With with COVID. Me and my husband and I we've gotten a lot closer together. You know, we'd both go to work every day and then come home and spend the evenings. But now we're together every day, Yale he'll make me my cover. He hasn't drank coffee. They help room my cup of coffee for me in the morning and sometimes make breakfast before I start my shift. Yeah. Just really sweet things. So we've gotten a, we've always been like the old married couple anyway, before we got married, but it just been, you know, Greater our relationship and. The whole wedding planning. I think kind of like a Mercedes said, I probably wouldn't have had as much time for planning if I'd been able to, you know, drive to work and come back. My commute is walking across the hallway now. I think it took, I felt my car the last time for gas in March. And I took me until I think, August to actually use the tank of gas. I'm saving money, not spending it on Starbucks every morning. Cause I'm using K-cups. So things like that, we, our paychecks and we've been depositing into a what a joint wedding fund to help save for deposits. And we knew we were going to hit the Mark for April. But we, you know, Instead of maybe having the caterer supply dishes, we were in a buy disposable ones. To try to save money, but now we've got all this extra time. Now we're talking. Well, maybe we'll just have them do the dishes. It's more green. We can afford it now. You do the little extra things that we may not have done before because we have the extra time to do it. Last question is since, you know, this was kind of, you know, We've gone down all these different and thank you guys all so much. If we do, if you guys do have to postpone, right. Even if we have to delay again, what would be kind of that? And I know Jocelyn, you guys have. Have either a low, right. And then, and then doing the value of what, what would be that kind of. We got it. You know, we got to. Right. I mean, is it, is it just the regulations? Is it, you know, whatever. So maybe we'll start with the Mercedes and more emo rap back around that way. Yeah. So, like I mentioned earlier, we will not do anything that goes against the state regulations at the time. So if we can't have more than a hundred people, if we can't, you know, say it's still limited at 30, then we'll. We'll get married. And, but we are postponed wedding. Won't just be the party will actually still do the ceremony. My brothers are efficient. He's a pastor here in Seattle and we have some really personal to us touches that are happening in the, in the ceremony itself. My father is known for making jams. His grandfather's known for making. Scones. So our unity moment, instead of a candle is going to be them kind of putting that together. And then we take bites of it. And it's just like really special moment because it's the joining of our two families. So things like that, we don't want to get rid of the will. No matter what, even if we get married, we'll have that ceremony and then have the reception as well. We hope to not both own, obviously, but if, if the restrictions are still in place, we will do what the state has mandated. Joslin, forgive me is the two 74 behind you. Is that dates to these, to the wedding now. Oh, yeah. That's the current dates to our new wedding date. Perfect. Yeah. I was like, man, I should have asked about that a long time ago. That's awesome. In the photo from you guys. That's so wonderful. This is from our mini money in September. Oh, okay. So we use a, a very intimate ceremony with just immediate family on a park. My husband's uncle is a lawyer to hate this year for us. He had officiated for his son for years ago, and we loved the ceremony. So you had to do it for us and we just kinda all stood there. Socially distance masks on wait pictures with him without the masks. That we decided to frame the one with the mask because it's not everyday. You get married in cupboard. And then we just kinda went out to lunch and had everybody household of their own little table, but the tables near each other, as much as COVID would allow. So it wasn't your reception, but just a way of kind of being at the same restaurant and having that, that moment. But no flowers, no cake, no music. We say it's all of that for the big day. Claire. What about you guys? You know? If something happens, what's kind of that, you know, a line in the sand. Yeah, well, I think ours is, we have very similar feelings to like Mercedes. We've asked my grandma who lives in New Jersey to officiate for us. And so like nothing that would put her at risk. I also like kind of just a callback from like earlier we're spending so much money that like, This should be what we want and what we want is a giant party. We want people to be able to dance. We don't want to have to like make people compromise their health or like. Their ability to have a good time. On this one day, because it is. The reception. Is truly just one day. And so putting anyone at risk for that day seemed silly. I think, yeah, we're just. Really helpful and will make the best call that we can. And one not going against any regulations. Hollywood about you guys. I think for us. I, you know, I really we've already invited everybody. And so for me, I really didn't want to get. Sorry. Okay. Well, I think for like uninspiring. But I didn't manage the invitation. Bobby didn't do formal invitation. So I'm at the point where like, okay, maybe in preparation for August or possibly postponing, I should get clear on my actual guest count. And like, I think we're Sandy said. We could probably eliminate kids. We could probably eliminate some, you know, plus ones. And so my goal is to get clear on that. So if we start to have to think about postponing, I really know like, well, maybe it is only a hundred and I could still fit here or whatever. So I'm going to get clear, but obviously if we can't have near a hundred for us, Just keep moving it down the road. Yeah. I think we're at work. What tour were kind of numb of. Postponing. So doing it again might not. You know, Might not be a big deal. So yeah. Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah. Well, I think your guys is, you had mentioned a power outage before. I think we're running near the end. Your wifi was cutting out there for a second. But I didn't know. It was. It's been great so far. So I'm so glad that we could get, yeah. I mean, that would be unfortunate to be kind of numb to the idea of having to postpone again, but. You know, it stinks. Thank you guys all so much for coming on today. I really appreciate it. I know this isn't like a normal thing that people do every day, you know, come on and talk about kind of all this stuff in the public forum. So I really do appreciate it. I'll I'll obviously post this and link to the previous one and the article. In question, just, you know, about optimism for 2021. And thank you guys all so much again for coming on. And normally we do all these like vendor plugs and everything. Claire's got party on the rocks and. Well, I'll do that, but normally we run down all this stuff, but thank you guys all so much again. And. Yeah, I just, we're going to air this for. Next week. And I think we'll probably get two weeks out of it and then take, kind of take a break through new years and then we'll come back on with new stuff in the, in the 2021. So thank you guys all so much.

Episode 27 - The 2021 Wedding Season and The Vaccine

Uh, well, thank you guys all so much for joining today. We have a large lively group. I hope to discuss the topic today. I was doing the little preamble about this before. Uh, so NBC news came out with an article this week talking about, um, hope hopeful. You know, couples planning, weddings in 2021. And now that there's going to be, you know, the vaccine they're working through and coming out. And, uh, just a lot of people that maybe didn't want to do the zoom weddings are the micro weddings or that sort of thing. And so, uh, Loren, uh, posted this in the, in the wedding group and, and. Anybody could have posted anybody. You could just share that to throw him under the bus. But we said, Hey, I generated a lot of discussion, right? Are, are people optimistic for 2021? Whether we thinking. And so we've, we've assembled this group today. I think it's a pretty good swath around, uh, just how I'm looking at everybody. Let's go to Sean first. If you could introduce yourself and then we'll kind of go around and kind of explain kind of how everyone's involved in what's going on today. Yeah, thanks so much, uh, happy to be here. Happy to join the group. My name is Sean Whitmore. I do business in Portland, Oregon, and Phoenix, Arizona, both. I started my business nearly a quarter century ago and, uh, most of my work. Has been deejaying and master of ceremonies. Uh, over the duration of my career. And then I find myself the last eight months. Uh, working as part of the lobby group to help, uh, the live events industry and all of my, uh, brothers and sisters who have been impacted greatly by COVID. Awesome. And Alan is back in the guest chair this week. Alan took over the podcast last week and we had a lively discussion about blogging with Laurie [unknown]. Uh, why don't you introduce yourself again for people that don't know? I am Alan s**t like a Puget sound. DJ is my company name. I like Sean. M an MC and the DJ. And, uh, I'm excited to chat about this today. COVID wow. Yeah. And then we tried to do a little bit off of it for awhile, and now we're back. You know, try to bounce around a Holly is, is that bride planning the wedding. Uh, it's going to be a unique perspective today for that. Holly, why don't you introduce yourself and, and, you know, in a, in an elevator pitch, kind of what, what your history has been going so far? Sure. So my name is Sally. Chanel. Um, my original wedding date was April of 2019. No, sorry. My twine. Yes, the craziness this year, I can't keep track. I literally just two days ago scheduled my fifth wedding date. So I suppose we'll get into that more, but that is where I'm at. And so you were still, uh, you, you have dates we're, we're working towards it to get to, that's kind of the goal still. Yes. And, uh, awesome. And, and Loren would the latte, Loren was the one that shared the order. Uh, the article I'm so glad you could make a non today. Why don't you introduce yourself? I think you already did for me. So, um, Just been in the industry for over 15 years. Lots of great experiences. Um, love working with brides and grooms and, uh, Grimson and grooms and brides and brides and everybody. Um, the industry has just been so kind to them. You know, to me. And, um, I just, I love doing it. So I really appreciate being on. Thanks for having, you know, creating this. Having us on. And that Rebecca has been on no stranger to the podcast. Rebecca Grant. Why don't you introduce yourself, please? Hi there. Good morning. I Rebecca Grant and the owner of new creations, wedding defining coordination, as well as the co-owner with my husband of 20 Willow gardens in venue. Snohomish. Um, I've been a planner for over 15 years, five years. And the rest here. Seattle. And I represent that main core group of. Uh, Washington state wedding and events association. I had to help advocate for our industry that we open. And I am also one of four that is on weekly calls with the governor's office directly. Um, advocating for our industry. And Rebecca, I might, we struggle with your wifi last time too. I might have you now. If you want to turn your camera off and now you've got the introduction out. We can get your audio going clean for that. I appreciate it. Up in Snohomish, they just did the Internet's not too great. Um, so Warren, you were the one that, um, that shared the article today. Um, Right. Here are a couple of days ago. Yeah. So, uh, what was, what was your impetus for that? And, uh, and going forward. To, to share it in the first place. Yeah, just get some happiness going. Ah. You know, some, some sort of good news, um, I, uh, that's the only reasoning that really that's the only reason. So. Just say, uh, is the idea that when the vaccine coming out there, there, there would be some optimism. And how has it been for you guys this year? Dealing with the challenges and rescheduling and everything. Uh, I would say half of ours have rescheduled, um, wi. You know, there wasn't anybody that canceled per se because of COVID. Um, they just move their dates. Um, and you know, we work with them as much as we can. To give them, you know, our experience of what the possibilities could be. Uh, some of them actually did their weddings and chose to have very few people at their wedding, like five. Um, You know, there was times where we had, where we were able to have 30 people there. Um, you know, According to the restrictions. And that that also went very well, but it was really the choice. Of, you know, the couple and what they wanted to do. And, uh, we went with that and we just made the best suggestions from our experiences. Um, you know, prior, because obviously nobody has an experience with this. But, uh, just to make it the best possibility we could for them. So a lot of them, you know, did something small. Maybe they're having their wedding. You know, that's, uh, I guess a bigger reception next year or something like that. And some of them just kind of wanted to do everything super small and just kinda. Move on. You know, that's that's okay, too. So there was a lot of, there was a lot of changes and, um, You know, we've seen it. There's a lot of people that couldn't do like photographers. Just for instance, Um, industry people that couldn't do participate, you know, in those weddings. And that's a very tough decision. So I, uh, I understand their position and, um, you know, we just did as much as we could and we masked up. A lot of it. If not, well, I would say entirely. I'm not double mass, you know, sometimes. And, um, just make sure that, uh, you know, we were safe. There was, um, there was also a. We, uh, got COVID waivers from the one of our photography. Um, This associations, um, And that also helped the clients kind of understand. You know that there is no fault of anybody. Um, and you can't, we didn't want to put responsibility on anybody. So, um, that helped. Our clients kind of understand that. You know, we choose to do this. Would you do it? If we don't that's that's we, we don't either. Uh, and so that a lot of photographers. DJ Suarez. You know, they'd have to make the right choices for themselves. And that, you know, that's just what it is. So. Uh, Sean, I had sent you the article when we invited you in to do this. What was kinda your initial thoughts from reading through and, and some of the optimism looking towards, uh, opening back up more in 2021. Yeah. Um, Obviously with, with vaccine brings some hope and some promise that we might be able to resume the careers that are currently on pause. I'll just step back for a moment. My, my summer, typically for my team. In Portland would have been close to a hundred weddings from may through early October. Um, and my entire team. Uh, did 10 weddings. So we're staring at 2020 at a 90% loss has seen an article like that. Obviously restore some hope and a measure of, um, maybe a little bit of excitement that maybe as we move into this engagement season here over Thanksgiving and Christmas Eve and Christmas day and new year's Eve and new year's day, when. When a mass amount of engagements happen and then January, we see this big booking influx for, for Portland. Um, it gives me some hope that maybe that will actually transpire, uh, there's been so much uncertainty for our couples and trying to not only move for [unknown]. The couples that were affected, but the new bookings are way off because they just don't know what to do. They're uncertain about what's happening and where Cove it's going. And. Uh, if the vaccine will be distributed and widely distributed and when will that be distributed? So I think the fact that, that we now have some estimated dates, you know, maybe a first wave of people are, are. You know, vaccinated in April and get that second shot maybe in late April. Um, maybe by June 1st, we can sort of begin to resume. In a staged way. What we used to know is our industry and be able to do live events in that same manner. Yeah, it's tough. Dorothy, my wife's friend, they just got engaged. Oh, probably a month and a half ago. Now I'm trying to remember when I told the story the first time on the podcast, but yeah, I mean, I told them like, I don't know what you do. I don't know if you do you wait to 20, 22, you know, are we, do you do a small thing now? Uh, Holly for you, was this, uh, was this kind of the article you're looking for in the news and talk about, you know, you've held off and what is the motivation for wanting to wait and then, and continue to reschedule and push back. Sure. So for us, um, our wedding date two days ago was February 26th. Then we're getting into the season and we're like, okay. People are still going to gather for the holidays. They're going to gather for new years and we have the flu season. We just didn't see a way that February would be what we wanted it to be. Um, My fiance and I both agreed early on. If we're going to spend the money on a wedding, we want it to be that big party. And the last thing we want to do is cut down the guest list and cause we've already invited everyone. So how sad you say, well, now you didn't make the cut. So we that's what really we want to avoid. And that's, what's making us say we want to wait as long as it takes, and we want to be the party that we originally wanted it to be. It will happen at some point. So seeing this article. Really made us we've rescheduled into August now. So I'm like, I feel we're far away from. Flu season and winter and all of that. So between that and the vaccine, we're really, really hoping that this will be the date. And if it's not, we're both just like, you know, it is what it is. And I know some people are really distract, you know, brides and grooms, but. These things are out of our control. And so we're just doing our best to like look for the positive. And when we finally get to have it, boy, is it going to be fun? Right? Everyone's going to be so ready for sets of such a celebration. Uh, Loren, you had a comment. Um, Holly. How many times did you reschedule again? This is our fifth wedding date. Okay. So you were, I'm guessing you were planning. In. Like 2019 then. Or 20. Yeah. Earlier. Like this is spanning over two years, but our first date was April of this year and we were planning in 2019. So yeah. COVID hit or like, Oh boy. And so you moved the dates long. I understand. Did you did? I was just curious. Did you have any help? Um, From like any of your vendors, um, that, did they make any suggestion for you or not? Um, I don't feel like we needed suggestions per se, but the vendors have been phenomenal in understanding. Cause I, you know, I felt horrible saying, Oh, I need to change the date because I'm so aware. Like I'm a business owner myself. And so my heart just breaks and hurts for thinking of all of the wedding. Vendors and their businesses and the impact. And so for my fiance, we were happy to pay in full as we would have on our normal date, but still, I felt bad taking up a new date in the future, but I know, you know, we can't avoid it. So what I would say is the vendors have been so. Patient and encouraging for each time we've said, okay, we're going to push out. We need a new date. I've never felt one. Ounce of, you know, some tension or some weirdness about it. So that's something that I really appreciate. That's. That's good. Alex. I wanted to know your thoughts. I know that we had messaged about this and I said, Hey, do you want to either be involved in this discussion? And you say, well, You know, I don't, I don't know. I have mixed feelings. Right. And I think that that's okay. I think it's okay to have mixed feelings or maybe not, you know, eternal optimism either here we are getting close to, you know, the Seattle wedding show just got postponed, you know, we're back in lockdowns in Washington right now, you know, my, my. Uh, XFL co-host Paul lives in LA and they they're like all home bound again, like we were. So what were your thoughts kind of reading through this. Well, I'm not sure that the headline really fully represented what the article said. I thought the article was pretty accurate representation of what wedding vendors and couples have gone through. In 2020, but. I'm not sure that there was a lot of evidence in the article that things are going to get Rosie and we're going to have no pun intended. Uh, reads nine-year-old dog is Rosie. Six-year-old mind. Oh, geez. Yeah. Should we just had a birthday on the day before yesterday. Yeah. Alright. So yeah, it's my Rozi Khan. Um, so I, I have real concerns about next year. Um, I, I believe it's going to be great that when we have a vaccine, but as I look at the resistance to the vaccine among a certain set of people out there, I'm not sure that that's the one. Cure that we can all really count on. You know, we need a significant percentage of people to take the vaccine for that to really work. Um, and then we're just so challenged in the Pacific Northwest. By our short window. Uh, with the weather. I mean, most people really want to get married. In July, August in September. And if we miss that window, People are going to be less interested in getting married next January. And, you know, personally for me, I had, I had two couples on the day before Thanksgiving. Cancel. One was for next may and one was for next August. So I'm sensing, uh, some trepidation on the Mount. Uh, on the, um, Mindset of couples. And. A little bit of a, I'm just tired of it. I want to get on with my life. I'm I'm I'm uh, I have to say, sorry, but I have to say, like, I, I feel like, um, that might not be the case because we do still have like a lot of inquiries. Coming in. We have. A lot of. Um, last minute, small weddings that are coming in and even in the winter and stuff like that. And I think it's, it might be difficult for your side of the industry, for sure as a DJ, because. Um, um, you know, they might have changed or may have to make different, um, you know, creative options or whatever for there. Um, ceremonies. Music. Um, Situations, but, uh, Um, maybe, maybe that is maybe that is like, you know, the, your side of the industry, which I totally get now, as I'm saying, so. Um, but we, I think it's just like people's choices there. They're deciding what they really want to do. Where they really want to have the wedding now, or they want to wait and have the really big, big wedding, you know, with lots of people in it. And that's obviously they would have to wait. So, um, but I get what you're saying. Totally again. Rebecca for someone that, you know, as a planner and as a venue owner has been just rocked on both sides of it. Right. When you read all through this, what are your thoughts? Um, I'm coming to that from various different angles. So when I am talking with the governor's office and I'm talking with them, not only about Maxine distribution, But I'm also in about em with rapid stain options. Is that an option to get those Archer guest counts into a wedding? Because we can potentially have, you know, Go starting cell rap testing. Right. So can we potentially leverage that and bring that into events on a larger scale? Um, the also other side of that, the feedback we've gotten from the governor's office is that outdoor will be significantly safer and significantly higher numbers than indoor. So that's something to be aware of an outdoor venue. Bye. We are still seeing nervousness. You know, Brian and I, within the past two weeks have had three cancellations that are been. And. Not because of COVID concerns. It's because people are moving on with their lives. And one realizing they can't afford the wedding that they work. I need to have tea. You know, saying we've moved on, we've gotten pregnant we've we have already eloped, you know, the wedding's not as much of a priority to us anymore. So that's, that is my biggest fear. As a vendor, you know, here we've scheduled a couples three or four times. And in your case, of course, Holly, Like you're on number five. So that's, that's I wedding dates that we have taken out of our inventory. To be able to reserve for one couple and their life has moved on. Button. They've had a baby. You know, they've eloped. And they're just realizing that big party is not as much of a priority as it once was. And so the cancellations are starting to roll in and it's like, well, shoot. Now what, you know, I mean, we've reserved. And then it's really, it's really awful conversations. It's, you know, we have this great conversation and relationship with our couple. Up to this point. And then all of a sudden it shifts of like, I'm sorry, we cannot be like your money back. Like we are just not enough financial position to be able to do that. And a couple might have chosen your date might not be choosing the same cancellation as you know, at the same outcome as you are. So we are losing revenue because of your choice, not because of anything we've done. So, um, so it's been interesting in the past couple of weeks with really, really tough conversations. Um, and it's not fun, you know, here we've been dragged through a year of this already and. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I am emotionally worn down between new creations and twin Wello I've rescheduled over 75 bulls. And it's exhausting and tiring and the conversations SOC you know, and so I'm like if we, if that little glimmer of hope can give couples hope too. Hang on with us. I'm all for it. Cause I'm like, I'm tired. I'm exhausted from this. You know, like I, like Alan said, I'm ready to move on with my life and like, let's get to work. Yeah, that's a tough thing. Um, That's all. We've gone back and forth on here on the podcast. And we did a whole, um, Podcast episode, we called it like saving the 20, 21 reception where these couples that have gotten married this year. You know, are, are rescheduling. You know, the large party for next year. How do we maintain that emotion for next year? You know, w when a lot of maybe the, you know, the, you do the first look in the vows and all that kinds of stuff now. And, but yeah, like you said, now, it's, it's more even, are we saving that 20, 21 reception and it's are we even, are they just moving on entirely? Right. And that's. Something. I fear that Dorothy's good friend. We did a backyard wedding in October and whatever. We'll see it's supposed to be on for next October. And we'll either, I don't, I don't have a lot of confidence in that just because of. You know, she wants to, they want to start a family. They want to do all this stuff. Uh, Holly, do you, uh, Do you ever, have you ever gone through thoughts like that? Of moving on or, you know, or just doing the smallest thing. I know you were saying with the, with the, um, even by the people and doing all these things, but how do you keep, I guess, that motivation going for, you know, continuing to go forward. That's a good question. Um, I think it's actually, it's an interesting time for couples, right? Because you get to choose what the wedding means to you. And marriage. Is. The certificate, but your relationship at the end of the day in and day out is that relationship. So I think it was a, it was a good point for us to stop and check and say, well, what, uh, what does the wedding mean to us? It doesn't have to mean that we're waiting for our relationship to get better. Once we get married or something like that. I've been there. I've been married before and that's kind of what I did the first time. So it's, it's actually enjoyable for me this time to be like, okay, the wedding is a ceremony and it's a celebration, but our relationship can be amazing now. And it doesn't, it doesn't matter when to ask the wedding happens. Um, you know, we do want to get pregnant next year. So I'm like, if this keeps going much longer, we are going to be more in a position of like, well, okay. Um, but I think it's a good time for couples to be able to stop and talk and really keep their relationship strong, no matter what. Is going on, which is obviously going to be a great tool for the rest of the marriage. So that's, that's been our philosophy with it. It's just staying cool. It is what it is and being our happy selves. You know, as much as we can anyways. It was interesting. They just posted last night. So you can check, you can put it in your health stuff and you can check where you're out in the vaccine list. I don't know if anyone else. Yes. I like the new Yorker, the New York times. It was something I am. I plugged it in and I'm like, you know, there's 300 million people I had in me. Right. Or whatever. Uh, Sean. As someone that that does, uh, in Portland and then down in Arizona, too, and, and dealing with that. Thoughts about that and, and timelines for that. And just like, yeah, if we have a vaccine, but if, if we can't eat, I mean, I even put Dorothy, cause my wife's a teacher and I put her on there thinking, well, that would be significantly higher. And it's not really that much. I mean, obviously you got to get first responders and all that, but what are your thoughts when it comes to kind of getting all that rolled out? Yeah, it's um, it's going to be extremely interesting because, um, the seasons and why I do what I do between Phoenix and Portland is because our peak seasons are opposite. So, um, here, you know, as the heat comes in, you know, by the end of may, that the season starts to wind down June fizzles out, and then obviously we're blasting off there in Portland. So I'm gravely concerned here for Arizona, because I don't think the peak season, which starts in October ends at the end of may. It's it's not going to exist. There is nothing happening here in Phoenix now. At Mike Phoenix home right now, there's, there's nothing going on. I don't anticipate a big rise and things going on. So that's concerning because you're going to lose now. What would amount to the, the second half of your full season? This last year in 2020 and now a full entire season peak season is going to be lost here at late 2020 through 2021 is it's just going to be gone for Arizona. I do have some optimism about what is happening in Portland. The fact that our season really in earnest doesn't get started usually for me until late may. Um, I have all of my main business that is locked now. Our COVID reschedules. I think that will all happen at scale at allowable scale. Um, and then June through October, our new bookings and rescheduled. A bride and grooms. Um, I'm optimistic that we're going to be able to hold on to, uh, our June through October, but I also have concerns like Alan has an EDS has, has expressed. I'm nervous because. Everybody thinks it's just going to end and it's not, we're going to have requirements of mass. We're going to have requirements of pants, entities. Sanitation. And we're going to have probably no buffets in the early part of this. We're going to have to still work together as an industry to be problem solvers and figure out how we bring together people safely. And we have a huge hurdle to guys. We have a PR problem right now of. What's happening with COVID and getting people to understand that it is safe or safer to return. So how do we overcome that PR and get people back to booking? Alan, you know, we've talked about this a lot about, um, You know, People thinking that this 20, 20 season and everything, you know, everything's coming back, we're going to give it back to this later. Right. We're going to get it on the back end. Like we're going to reschedule these and we're going to go. I mean, at what point is it. I mean 2020 is just a loss. I know that that's not what people want to hear, but like at what point is it. We just kinda got it. We got to focus on new things here. I think that's a great point. I mean, I think from a couples. Standpoint. You've just got to figure out what's right for you personally. And I, and I find that people are doing a variety of things. What, one of the things I really admire about Holly is she's in, she wants a great wedding, you know, and so. I think that's part of the reason her vendors are ready to support her. Um, And, uh, As a. Vendor, I've sure had conversations with people like during this past summer. Well, you know, Uh, 2021 is Joe gonna rock. We're going to, we're going to catch it all back up and all these people are going to have a weekday weddings, and we're going to just really. Um, we're going to have twice the bookings and stuff, but I'm not quite seeing that. I mean, literally the last seven or eight inquiries I've had are for 20, 21 dates that I've already booked. And they're mostly booked from 2020 couples who rescheduled. So from an industry stand point, I'm not sure that we're going to be back and better than ever. I feel like we might get. 2021 might be a year where we recover. Um, but you know, there's also, uh, Some really sad things going on with different venues. Uh, going out of business. Um, I know people in difference. Fields who are self-employed. Who are not quite making it. I mean, the wedding industry is going to be really different. By next year. I would agree. Helen. I want to jump in on this, um, you know, The couple have canceled. They have told me, they're like, well, we want to cancel early enough. So you have the ability to rebook the date. And I kinda, I kinda chuckle at myself. That because you're absolutely right now through my planning company, I personally rescheduled 31 weddings. And my normal season is 30 to 35 weddings. That's my cap. And in order for me to survive and to sustain my business through this, I have to book more than I would normally realistically take on a new year. And so I did. I'm I'm going to die next year. I'm pretty for weddings. Just myself planning. And it's pretty, one of those are rescheduled. So realistically I'm trying to survive, you know, on 13 weddings pain, my salary for the year. And. This new inquiries, I will entertain the option if it's, um, you know, an off season where I'm not just going to be insanely crazy for 2021. A few inquiries are still coming in, especially on the venue side, but in order to protect my business, I am responding to couples saying you are entertaining having the option of a wedding in 2021. Knowing that COVID is already a thing. So because of that, I unfortunately, as a business owner need to let you know that I cannot allow any cancellations or any reschedules of your event. We will have your event regardless of what the mandate is at the time. And that may mean lowering your guest count. Cause I have to protect that income. I keep moving everything onto, you know, a year out a year out a year out in hopes that we're going to be okay. And Holly, you're definitely anomaly. Cause my, my couples that have rescheduled multiple times are saying. Screw it we're having a wedding in 2021, no matter where we are not rescheduling again. We are ready to go. This has been on their site to not only emotionally wrapping your head on that many dates. And not many changes. And that many of financial, you know, Um, burden that the couple takes on with those reschedule. So it's just interesting to try and protect, you know, as a business owner. So I can be in business for future weddings. You know, I do 100% agree with Alan. I think the landscape of the Seattle and probably the Portland wedding market. Is going to be quite different in two years. I mean, I, there will not be businesses that will survive this, and we're already seeing that. And that's my worry with couples continuing to reschedule. Well, you're under BNB. Yeah, we, uh, and Loren, I'm hopping to the next. We had a, either a concert the other day and this the same thing, cause they're getting married next summer. And I said, we will not, there is no cancellations at all. Like we can. You know, apply your retainer. If we need to do a ceremony, like, like we've done this year, or we can postpone that, figure that out. But like, yeah. There's no, we're not canceling anything at all. And like anything that's been on and it needs to. In one way or another needs to go through and we need to move on with that. Warren at my question for you. Cause I, you know, I think one of the differences with. You know, like when you and Alan are, are talking about events, you know, as photographers and videographers were able to do a little more small scale, right? Sometimes we DJs and MCs. It's a little bit more like we're either doing the thing or we're not doing the thing where like us, we can come in and do a little five person thing. Um, so obviously you guys have been adaptable and are doing that, but that's. You know, you, you can do 20 small weddings, but that's not going to replace the same scale of, you know, cause you guys are a higher, um, A higher valued vendor, right? When you, when you do your full wedding bookings. So how are you guys kind of balancing that. Well, so the first part we we've asked the clients that are changing their date to go to another day, other than like a busy Saturday. And many of them have only a few of them had to have a Saturday. So we're, we just, you know, kind of. I guess you could say stuck it up, if you will. Um, and, but a lot of them have been very nice about it and have moved to Monday a Sunday or Friday or something like that. That, um, as a little bit more helpful, Um, but I'm just like, as. As Alan has said, as Rebecca has just, um, you know, mentioned. You know, it's, it's really tough to move the dates. And then, you know, if somebody tries to cancel. I actually. You know, try to make suggestions of how do we work around it. Um, and I've only had to do that maybe once and we worked around it and, um, the rest of the clients have been, you know, I'm nice enough to move the dates to something that we were opened or out of a certain realm of dates. If you will. You know, not a Saturday between June and October or something like that. And, um, they were very nice about it. Somewhat. I don't think compliant is the right word, but just again, very nice about it. So. Um, and it is, it is different. I think for. Probably for some photographers. I'm just thinking about my myself and, you know, as compared to venues, coordinators, DJ's forest. Um, and then the, you know, the rest of the list. Um, I get, I get where he's at. It is a little bit unfortunate and you can. You know, only deal with so, so much. With what you have, I guess we could say. So my, my, uh, You know, my deepest feelings, heartfelt stuff. For people that are. You know, it doesn't matter what side you're on, whether it's industry side or, uh, You know, client a couple of sides. It's very tough. Very tough. Yeah. At one point read to, to make too. On what Loren is saying and what Rebecca just said too. I think. Um, for these 2021 clients it's imperative that the voice of the industry kind of is speaking the same thing and explaining to people what Rebecca just said in that. If you're choosing these 20, 21 dates, we do need you to understand that now it's not just kind of a free, you know, you can do whatever you want with COVID. It's now needs to be adjusted to reflect the knowledge that we now have and understand the impact. We seen this in our insurances. These companies are, have not been flexible with us with regards to paying your premiums and still charging you for that. And not only that, but they didn't cover. Any of this pandemic for people and people didn't even understand they had exclusions of that coverage. So. W as an industry and, and Holly probably, I'm sorry that you have to hear this, but as an industry, we have to actually be able to move forward and still exist after COVID. And if we don't set some groundwork and lay down this foundation of understanding with our clients, we won't be here to serve them. And so we do need to take a little bit stronger. Uh, stance with people, get them to scale their weddings down to those sizes that are allowed and work within the parameters that we can for 2021. Or you might as well kiss this entire industry. Goodbye. And all I wanted to go to you next time that you, you put it in the cat. Um, yeah, it's tough with the vendors and. I know that back in, in March and April, I think like wedding wire and stuff, you could get, you know, 10% they were giving some discounts and things spiky. So EO paying for these things like. You know, I've paid the same music licensing subscriptions all year, even though we're not doing the same number of weddings, right? Like I've paid the same amount on wedding wire, except for like those two months, you know, I know some of these, like we're still paying all the same things, you know? I mean, obviously taxes are lower just because revenue's lower butt. Yeah, a lot of these kids that like, you know, why the wire can exist without us. And so like, we have to pay for that or something, you know, somewhere someone has to pay her for that to keep it afloat. Um, Holly, I know you wanted to talk about a weekday wedding is brainstorming and trying to figure out dates for people like that. So what did you want a copy of that? I'm also, well, what Sean just said kind of leads me into that as well, because what I would love to be if there's a separate time to chat about this, but. I mean super open-minded I'm typically really good at seeing all sides of something. So it would be an interesting talk to hap to how do we bridge the gap between these hurting business owners and then the brides and grooms, because, um, there's. I think brides and grooms may not typically, I typically under I understand business, but not a lot of them do. Right. So they don't realize like what Rebecca was talking about, um, when they keep moving their dates and when they insist on being on a weekend and all these different things. So I'm just interested in, and if there's a way for me to help have a chat about that, Because if we, a lot of people are probably like there's a lot going on in their lives, family's lives and jobs. Right. They've lost jobs. So it's going to be harder for them to like pull their head up and look at their wedding situation with an open mind. And if we can have a conversation and maybe come up with some marketing that may help. Help with that. I would love to be a part of that discussion. So I was just wondering if you guys have seen people four of my five wedding dates for all weekdays, because I'm like, I want to be easy on bottom on my people. It doesn't matter to me. So I've been really happy and thrilled to be that person that's like that it'll be a Wednesday. I don't, I don't care. The important people are still going to come anyways. So even if that's a chat that we could have, that we could kind of put out there. People started doing that more. If I keep the brides and grooms, it could be like, Oh, that's a good way to think about it. I'll apply that to my own thinking. And then it could help, you know, the vendors in the industry in general, but it sounds like some people have been open to weekday weddings, but anyways, just want to see how, what, how would you frame the conversation to help. Um, everybody, because I totally understand that the vendors may not be around if this continues and that is devastating him. And I'm sure that that's not what bride and grooms mean to do. So how can we all just like be one team? And move forward. Uh, before we got the warrant, I just want to say, I wish we could just spawn a Holly so we can all have yes. Uh, Warren, what did you want to say? But I guess that's another question for Holly is like, so, um, you know, again, you seem to have come up with a lot of things on your own, which is great, and you have an open mind, which has worked very wonderful as well. So how, how did that weekday thing come for you? What did so many mention that in one of the vendors, did you, did you know, Y Y weekday for you, other than what you've already said is everybody's still gonna show up. Great question. Um, my first wedding was a week day, and we did it for money. Um, and that's why I did the second time, both my fiance and I are super pragmatic. And I'm like, I looked at, you know, when I went to the wedding show, my big question to everybody was what's the weekday rate versus the regular. And when you realize you can save four or $5,000 for having a weekday wedding to me, Why the heck would I not do that at the most important people are going to be there. Anyways. Um, you know, we tend to have, we have a strong social group, so I know that most people wouldn't take the day off work to come and not have a problem doing that. Um, That's just the world I come from. So for me, it was just being pragmatic. But if other people aren't thinking that way, I would love to help. I mean, I would be happy to be interviewed for a. This being an outlier. Mindset or whatever. Um, just because of people heard it and that could be like, Oh, I can, I can get down with that. And it could, it could change some people's mindset, which would really help you guys. So, yeah, I'm going to jump in on this one. Cause ad planner, you know, I've been directing my couples is. They need to realize that wedding vendors literally only have 52 weeks a year to make money. And that is very much unlike any other industry. And most of us, realistically, to not burn ourselves out. And die. Can only go on about, you know, kind of that max 30, 35 number right around there. It seems to be pretty average. Um, however, you know, In also talking with couples about it. I've been a maid. What a joke out of it, but a little bit lighter of the situation of saying rules are out the window at this point, you know, like everybody's in the same boat. All been dragged through the mud. This year let's have a great celebration, regardless of what day it is. And being able to talk to them about financial benefits, like exactly what you just said. Um, and being able to just tell them like, people get it, they will understand that you did. They want to celebrate with you and they want to come in and be able to take that day off work and really just have a great celebration with you because they understand what you've been through, you know, of having to reschedule so many times and. The people that are, that are going to want to be there. We'll be there no matter what. And, um, that has tremendously helped me out with my schedule of even being able to take on those 13 weddings that are saving my 20, 21 season. Because so many of my couples for 2020 have moved into a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday wedding. Yeah, it's a great point. And I want to go to Sean about this too, because you know, Holly is, like I said, it's kind of that ideal mindset, but it's just not necessarily all the inquiries that, you know, we still have been getting are all Saturday. You know, nothing's changed. It's not like I'm getting a bunch of like, Hey, we're getting married on whatever. So, Shawn, I know that you had said before, and I wanted to get back to you about this too, about, um, your thoughts. Yeah. So Holly, we appreciate so much the mindset that you take into this, sadly, most are not taking this. Um, Uh, there's even been a struggle. Like I offered Fridays and Sundays as a free alternative for people in the future. And then have a nominal, like a very nominal Saturday rebooking fee. Um, I would say it wasn't received well, generally as a rule. I didn't love doing it and just understand from a vendor perspective. Our desire would have been just to shift everything forward if we do. So though, we literally take all of our income ability. It just gets wiped out. Cause now you're doing. You know the date next year for free, or you're doing this year's date for free and you're getting paid next year, but either way, you know, w we're losing this entire date and are our dates are the inventory. So it becomes such a challenge for the industry as a whole. And there's been so much. Uh, conversation through the entire community of how you're handling it. And what are you doing? How do we help these people, but also not harm ourselves. And it oftentimes feels like it's a loss loss it's lose, lose for us because if you don't just move the client forward, you're losing Goodwill. If you don't. Uh, move the client forward. Um, you're harming yourself too, if you don't have additional fees moving forward on those prime dates. So it's been a struggle for me personally, um, with so many. I'm close to 80 movements, as far as the clients. You know, on our team with our three DJs and it's, it's been a challenge to figure out where to move them, how to navigate those. And, and there's been some really like Rebecca has noted some very difficult conversations with some clients about. You know the reality of our situation and how we can move forward and do it together, unified with our clients and still be here to serve them in 2021 and beyond. Let's go to Loren. And then I have a question for Alan. In the. The other thing, I think I was gonna kind of piggyback on to a lot of this is. For some of us. I don't, you know, I can't speak for everybody, but for photographers, um, You know, I have a lot of touch points with my clients, um, prior to the wedding. Um, obviously Rebecca does too. And I know that all the DJs and in Reid, Reid does also as a videographer. But I have a lot of post-production that I have to do. So. Unfortunately, it's, it's really tough for me to like, Take. A weekday wedding and maybe give any type of like, you know, discount or something like that. That's really gonna impede. But I really do for my clients. So that's what makes it tough for me to like, You know, being at the wedding show or something like that, which we are at. And, you know, saying I can do this for this much off because I have the same amount of production time, post production time. As I would a normal Saturday wedding. And, um, if I start stacking weddings, You know, Saturday Sunday. Or Saturday, Monday, or, you know, some in the week. Aye. Like Rebecca says, you literally lose yourself. And you're just, all you're doing is working and we put, you know, I know all the good vendors, they put so much energy and time and work into making that way. Those clients, their clients winning like perfect. And those, those are the good people that really care about all the things that they're doing for their clients. And there's just so much energy. Pour it out into that wedding day. Did it makes it really difficult. Um, for me to, you know, to do that in as much as I'd rather just like give them an extra canvas or something like that, to give them some sort of incentive to do, you know, something on a weekday. Um, but it would, it's hard. It's very hard to, uh, just because of like the time that. You know, I currently spend. Where you can probably speak on that post production. I get it. I get it. Absolutely. Um, yeah. I mean, I used to, before all this stuff, I used to say, you know, you work as hard as in February as you do in August, you know, there's no, if you're onsite. Alan. I wanted to get with you. You know, Shawn was talking, you know, it there's a lot of despair right now. Right? It's a lot of heartache. You're kind of, you know, optimistic. You know, Alan Wright, we call you. Knowing the behind your back. How do we, how do we, what are you looking at here for positivity about this? I mean, there's a lot of different stuff going on. Well, uh, we do have a vaccine on the way. We have had a good amount of time for people to adjust their expectations, both from a couple standpoint and a. Vendors stand point. So I think people are able to make some adjustments, um, And. Maybe it's not the worst thing to have. Say a smaller wedding. I think that's become a reality. For a lot of couples. And most of the ones that I've been involved with, um, when great and people were happy to have the concentrated number of. Of people that they had. I don't know if I'm going to have any 20, 20 weddings with 200 people. Um, Holly, you're not at 208. Um, Um, so, um, In terms of optimism. I do think we're on a path though. Let me say that I was reading some projections this morning. That Mark we're we're it's going to be bad, bad, bad through March. March is going to be the peak of the worseness. Um, But bye. By the spring, I believe we should start having, uh, the, the vaccine and. I think things will start to return somewhat to normal. I want to go to Rebecca about this and because I'm always Allen and I, I do think it's an interesting, cause we're always kind of a little opposite sides of the same coin, right. Where we. I think we want the best for the industry, you know, were you say, uh, I think we've had enough time. You know, for people to start adjusting. And I would always say, but yeah, but have the people adjusted, right? Cause it does still seem like there's the mentality, you know? You know, 200 people are busted for some people, not for all, but for some, uh, Rebecca, do you think that people have, have adjusted their, their mindset and their expectations moving into next year? Um, for a couples. Have rescheduled already 100%. Like I said earlier, they are moving forward, no matter what, regardless of, of whatever the needs are, because they've, they've been through this for couples that have not been through this, they're the ones that are reaching out to reschedule. Um, and that is where I come in. I'm saying I've been a year. Yes. I have been the couples that have decided to move forward no matter what. And I honestly can tell you that they are significantly happier than those that keep rescheduling. Sorry, Holly. But they. They are, they don't have to worry about the wet F and the what's next. And. Oh, my gosh, we have to adjust. Um, so I've had some like, yeah. Totally get that. And they're willing to readjust their mindset because of that. In my experience, I have found that the couples that, um, How do I say this without sounding. That are more into the party and more into look the wedding and more into kind of showing off a great event. Those are the people that are wanting a wedding. Like it would have been in 2019. And the. Couples that have. The ma is that, have, I just want to freaking get married? You know, I wanna, I wanna have a great experience, no matter what. Looks like they're the ones that are choosing to move forward. No matter what. So, yeah, I don't know if that fully answers your questions, but. That's my theory. Yeah, it's interesting. I'll be curious if yeah. Couples that are getting married right now. Like they're, they're walking into like the bar and there's been like a fight that we've all gone through and there's been this whole big tussle and they'll walk in like, Hey, what's going on? Like what? You know, that they haven't been. You know, living and dying with like Inslee's either mandates and whatever. It's the same thing. I was just on a, um, Um, uh, uh, Kelly Blair that manages historic 16, 25, just how to she's leaving the industry. So we had like a little zoom going away. And someone on there was asking about, uh, thoughts about hoppy, not on unemployment here, now that we're getting into the end of things. And I was like, where. You've been for the last nine months, like asking these things now, like literally what you know, and also this isn't going to be a thing in three weeks unless they figure it out. But it was so I'll be, do you think that, um, maybe Sean, let's go to you because you were laughing at my joke. Do you think that, um, The couples now are going to be cognizant of these things, or is it going to be a whole new re-education process again? If they're not cognizant of what's going on with COVID. They've been living like in, in Jupiter or Saturn or something. Cause. If they're coming to most of my clients that are the new bookings, have a lot of questions about the contract and what we're doing with their money. And rescheduling. So I think there's quite a bit of awareness. I've done a lot of what Rebecca has done it as well. I'm coaching them about the facts that. As we take on these bookings per say June, July, August, September. There is an expectation from, from my company's standpoint that we're going to be having some type of function that day at a scaled size. Minimally, you know, Um, so trying to set those expectations for people, understanding that the realities are what they are and we're in this situation. Um, but you know, we expect to get back to doing events here, um, you know, in, in 2021 and we need our clients to take that ride with us. So. Uh, I'm very hopeful that, that, you know, setting those expectations has them understanding what we're up against and what we're, what we need to do so that we can get back to doing what we all love, which is celebrating joyful and exciting, you know, celebrations with these couples, because our relationship has gone from managing the joy and the fun and the excitement for like Alan and I specifically to now managing these awkward conversations in these. What if scenarios. And as Rebecca and all of you, it's tiresome. It's frustrating. It's frustrating for us too, to not know, and to not be able to answer these questions for our couples, because we don't know what our governors are doing. We haven't had a national mandate. We haven't had a national. A voice that speaks to everyone in the same tone. And so, um, I'm encouraged about what's going on. I'm cautiously optimistic. I've always been glass half full. Um, I think there'll be a summer season next year for Portland, Seattle. And, um, yeah, I'm glad Holly's in August because I think she has a good chance of celebrating the party that she wants to have. Uh, so we're getting close to an hour here. I want to, you know, don't want to hold it to everybody all day for this. I really appreciate everybody. You know, it's great to get this many voices and whatever together I want to do one final go around any last thoughts, any last takes, any lasts, you know, whatever, I'll put everybody's information. So don't worry about, you know, like talking about. You know, we'll put it who everybody is, but just kind of last takeaways and thoughts about this, and maybe let's start with Rebecca. Yeah. I'm hanging in there. Every bag. Both on the vendor's value to Anna and on the client side, um, the more, the more we can get couples to just look forward to their celebration, regardless of what that looks like, the better, um, you know, both for their sanity and for sanity. Um, I'm optimistic that we are going to sound much more of 2020 then. We initially probably thought we would, um, especially for outdoor venues. I'm, I'm very hopeful that that news is right around the corner. Um, so yeah, I'm, I'm hopeful that. We'll be able to get back to that celebration back to the happy times. That's why we got into this. I'm believe we truly genuinely loves freedom with our couples. Loren, whether you last takeaways and you have a new friend here. Yeah, this is bulky. Um, You know, I, I, I think Rebecca pretty much. Um, we're just looking forward to getting back to celebrating. Um, and I know that, uh, We are trying to do as many of you. Many of you are. Trying to just work with those clients and make sure that they're happy. That's probably the best thing that we can do, um, try to solve the problems as best we can. And, uh, you know, keep an open mind when we're talking to the clients and. Um, you know, If you have to stick to something, you might have to stick to something, but it's better to be flexible in these times of everybody's needs, including our. So. Um, but yeah. I'm looking forward to getting back to normalcy. Thank you. Uh, Hollywood about you. And thanks again for hopping on this kind of, you know, with the vendors and everybody else either. Probably not something you do every day. So thank you so much for that. Uh, any last takeaways? Suggestions for other couples planning or any other thoughts that you would have. Yes. Yes. Um, so first of all, I appreciate the opportunity so much, and it really opened my eyes to some things that I did not think about behind the stands. And it just makes it just like, feels me to even more, want to just keep having that conversation because. Um, I just want you to talking about it. So, um, I would love, love to help in some way, shape or provide new ways for, you know, current couples planning to think. So. If that's something that's interesting to interview. I, I don't, I wouldn't know where that conversation would go, but anyways, I'm very interested. I really appreciate what I learned today. And I mean, if I was in any way involved with couples planning, um, I just think there's a lot of opportunities coming in the next year. And we've been in COVID long enough that it's not new. Couples have to understand what's going on, right. And be more willing and open to work with their vendors and, and listen and understand what their choice, how it's impacting their vendor. And everyone wants to do this right. Everyone wants to pull it off. So how could everyone come together? You know, for success for all of them? As much as possible. So just thank you for having me. I learned a lot and you know, happy to keep chatting. Also, I have some ideas coming up. We'll we'll be in touch for that. Uh, we'll go to the shower on, and then we'll give Alan the last word as normal per his, uh, for his rather in this contract, that contract. You bet. Thanks so much. I think to the, to the fellow vendors, I'll say this, um, leave room for other opinions and ideas and thoughts and handling of all this. Um, I've spoken to so many people and the choices that I make are maybe aren't the choices that you'll make, but I want to give grace for you to make the decision that's right for your business. I think that's super important right now to the brides and grooms to the couples in the corpora. Corporations that are all affected by not being able to gather, not being able to produce live events. Be patient and come back to us and then lift us up when we get to do that, because this is an industry that has been impacted far greater than the restaurants, far greater than the airlines, far greater than all of them they're working. We are not. So it's super important for everybody to understand when we get to do live events, we need you. So come host your events, host a bunch of them and let's party. Also, there's been like lots of billions that have gone to the, not to downplay the airlines and stuff, but I mean, there has been, there is you have to be a industry bailout for that sort of thing. Uh, Allen thoughts. We need billions and bailouts for DJs. I think John and I can agree on that. Um, I guess. I think one of the big challenges of this era has been the uncertainty. If you said to couples, if you said the wedding. Uh, professionals, no weddings from here to here, but then we're coming back. Right. But. I never in a million years last March would have. Imagined that we'd be where we are. Day. And the fact that 2021 is so uncertain. Is, it was really unnerving and I think it's an opportunity. For both couples and wedding professionals. To establish greater communication and greater empathy. I mean, just like Holly was describing, she's learned more about what goes on behind the scenes with. Wedding vendors right now. Like it's really tough on it on every wedding vendor that I know. And most of the wedding vendors that I know are in it because they love couples. They love weddings. They love love. Um, and. And so I hope couples can respect that. The reason that we're trying so hard to stay in business is for that. And, and from, uh, A vendor standpoint. People have envisioned there. Weddings for years. Years, and maybe they grew up going to their cousin's weddings and they want their whole family there. And now it's like, Five people on the mountain side or whatever, it's, it's a big, big difference. And I think we need to have empathy for all the emotion. That is as occurring within couples too. And sometimes couples may not even be agreed. You know, and sort of how challenging would that be? Um, So hopefully a greater degree of communication comes out of this greater degree of empathy comes out of this. And at some point. The fog gets lifted and we're all having fun again. Yeah, the Facebook messenger receipts are there for Alan. And I say, man, if this is going on in, this is back in March, this is going on in August and we're going to be in there is going to be a serious problems. And yet here we are in a, in December. So, uh, thank you guys all so much again, my last takeaway. Yeah. The title of the article is. Say no to zoom weddings. You know, it's not the worst thing in the world that we do a lot of live streaming. I got, I got a live stream on when, uh, this coming Wednesday, a weekday wedding either. You know, at Newcastle and it's going to be great. So that's not the worst thing in the world if you still want to get married and have everybody there. So that will be my last block. I bank you guys all so much again and see Loren, I told you it would not be so bad and we would all be happy. So there we go. Thank you guys so much. Thank you. Thank you.

Episode 26 - A Podcast About Blogging! (Alan Chitlik Takeover)

Hello and welcome to episode 26 of the best made weddings podcast. I'm Alan chitlik. And I have taken over this week's podcast to introduce you to two specialists who are going to educate you about blogging. First. I want to introduce you to wedding planner, Lori losee. lori, can you tell us a little bit about your business? Yeah, so I started elegant affairs back in 2005. Originally this was supposed to be a fun summer part-time job. I had a young son who will now turn 16 in two months. And so this has grown to what it has become and with additional staff and we are just super excited about what's going on. We're looking forward to 2021, so, and 2022, but yeah, so I love doing wedding planning and it's been a passion of mine for ever since I got married in 2003. That's awesome. And our other guest is a man named Reid Johnson. Now Reid, you're a first time guest on this show, Is that correct? And that is I'm a first time guest on the best meet weddings podcast. Cool. Well, welcome to the podcast. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your business? Yeah. Thank you very much, alan, for hosting this today, I enjoy your XFL Mark casher. Thank you very much for that XFL show.com/merge. We are investigating videos wedding videography company, live streaming corporate video production. And yeah, I invest a lot of time in social media stuff and blogging and website stuff and content creation like this podcast and the other podcasts we do for wedding stuff. So I am very excited to talk about all this today. Thank you, Brad. Well, you're welcome. I'm glad to have selected you now, lori, maybe we can start with you. Can you talk a little bit about where blogging began for you and how it fits into your business? Yeah, it was really organic. In terms of more of educating clients, I think when we would do initial consultations and throughout the wedding planning process, there was a lot of questions that brides and grooms and parents had, and sometimes we just didn't have enough time to kind of go back to the basics in planning meetings. And so I would say blogging for me really got started probably the last three or four years and really heavily probably the last two to three especially with lovely COVID and trying to educate everybody, especially here in Washington state, since our roles have changed several times and quickly. And so it's getting that information out to the masses in one single platform. So that's kind of where we look at from blogging. I try to be consistent in doing at least one blog post a week, obviously. We kind of do Tuesdays, we do kind of a helpful hints, tips, tricks, kind of thing, to kind of educate again, couples. And then usually Thursdays is reserved settings. We have been very low on that and the amount of weddings we've had, so we're kind of trying to pace it out. So once we really kick off 2021 hopefully, and soon you'll start seeing that more on a regular basis. But I think for me a lot of people resonate with the real weddings cause they want to see, Oh, I'm getting married at XYZ venue. I want to see what I can do or what other people, whether what other wedding professionals have done that either I like, or I don't like or something that I know I need to be on the lookout saying, okay, I definitely know that this venue has a water feature that I need to either cover up or highlight or just completely ignore. So I think for us the real wedding blog posts are our biggest hits. And can you talk a little bit about what just overall you see as the benefits? Is it, is it that you want these couples to know you better get your advice better? Or how would you describe what you consider to be the benefits of blogging? Yeah, I think definitely so that they can understand our personality. So besides myself, I have Lisa Owens, who's my associate planner. So she helps write blog posts too. So it's giving me our company name, our personality out there. So people that maybe they've interviewed us and they're interviewing other wedding planners, we definitely say, Hey, go check out our blog. Kind of see it through the planning process, see the kind of work we'd done. And education tips that we're giving to couples. And sometimes that's the tiebreaker. And we've actually seen that the last couple of years people saying, Oh, I read your blog post, or I saw your blog post on my venue that popped up and I really love what you did and I want you to do that for my wedding. So I think you kind of see couples and other vendors reach out to us and saying, Hey, I know I'm going to be working with you this year. Really wanted to see kind of your aesthetic, what's working with you. Like so we also appreciate that, that too. And we also love collaborating with other vendors like you guys and doing guest blog posts. And I also love to have guest blog posts on our site too. Great. Reid, what about you? How did you get started with blogging? Well, it's interesting listening to where you're talking about it and I think it's fascinating because I think we're kind of on two totally separate spectrums, but with the same goal. Right. So I think lori does an excellent job and there was a reason why we kind of talked about, you know, having you be included right. In, in doing blogs regularly, you know, rich content valuable content. And while I obviously, you know, produce the podcast and things, you know, for education and for you know, the enjoyment of people and to, and to learn things, I try to tend more on like the Moneyball side of everything. Like I'm trying to figure out getting the most content I can on my site, you know, for Google and for, you know, analytics and things like that. And obviously getting you know, people reading and sharing couples, weddings and stuff like that is an added bonus of that, but that's more on my, where I'm on that side of things. And so I think it's interesting, we're, we're kind of like opposites, but with the same goal of, of producing stuff, as much as we can to, to kind of build that world out. So I, I, to answer your question you know, we started blogging videos are really hard to rank on, you know, websites and, and it's nice to have texts associated with that and keywords and things like that. And so what, what kind of originally started as just you know, me horribly trying to recap weddings, I'm terrible at writing. I'm not good at it. I was going to major in journalism and then I ended up, I think I have a minor, but like drastically reduced it. You know, now I have my brother Scott do all the blogs, but you know what originally began as kind of a really terrible recaps of these weddings. Now we have, you know, we do the full wedding recaps. We do a behind the scenes post. We do the bizarre wedding news series as a whole separate blog series. We do, but just trying to generate as much content that way is where I'm at. And I was a journalism major at WSU go kooks. And so I was actually a newspaper reporter back in the day before I started my wedding planning business. So I got to use my college degree beyond once I moved on from that career. And I I'd like to hear from each of you about your your just emotional feeling about blogging lori, it seems like you embrace that role as a former reporter, and it's a good outlet for you. Read, I know you've talked a little bit about how it is not necessarily something you enjoy doing, so you have found other avenues to make it happen. Can you guys elaborate on that? Maybe Lori first? Yeah. Well, I mean, I just love writing and I love for me, my soft spot is for the real weddings. I love to look back, you know, show the videos if couples have hired videographers love showing the professional photos and just really reflecting on that couples experience and if possible, I love to incorporate the couples view. Sometimes it doesn't always happen if I have a tight turnaround, if I don't give them enough time. But I think to make that emotional connection for me is really big and also kind of piggyback on what reads that obviously we're looking at it from an SEO, analytical, analytical, and you know, the keywords and things like that. But for me, before I even knew about what SEO and all that crazy stuff was, and that's a whole kitten caboodle right there. You know, I just love giving back to my couples and saying, you know, Hey, I loved working with you. I want to feature your wedding because, you know, not all of our weddings are going to be, you know, magazine worthy, according to the magazine, people will just put it that way in our eyes. Every wedding should be published, whether online or in print. And this is kind of our way of saying your wedding was amazing and it needs, it really needs to be shown to the masses. So for me, I look at it more of an emotional standpoint. And then when it comes to like the helpful hints and tips and things like that, I just feel like it kind of helps me. I always tell my couple, like if they're thinking like, Oh, we want to hire a DJ, what are some good tips or things I can say, okay, well, Hey, here's kind of some background, here's a link to my blog post. And it kind of makes that connection that way. So I like just educating my couples as much as possible. So for me, Just be alphabetical by first name, as they're searching for DJs, That would be the easiest thing to do. I mean, but you know, Except for Aaron, Aaron is a bad luck DJ name. I believe, I hope there are. I don't think there are any DJs. Oh, Adam, Adam, we can't have Adam. No, no, no. Aaron DJs, but we do know Adam Teague. All right. I'll take his, I'll be as backup. I'll take the second read. What about you? Well, Just same for herself. Like Laura was saying about, about publishing the couples. Weddings. I also agree with that where I remember back, we used to have these videographer meetups all the time. And one of the questions that someone that was newer was asking was, do you put every video that you do on your website, like in your portfolio to show, you know, that you're getting the most hits off of and you know, my answer was no, of course not right, because not every, and although every wedding is amazing and beautiful to the couple that's having it, not every wedding necessarily is reflective of maybe what people are looking for or what they want to see and trying to have that you know, swath of, of choices to see. But yeah, every, when he does get a blog post, they get a feature, you know, they get a ride up that way. So that, I think that that's a great way to, like you said, still feature the couples, take time, reflect on it, talk about everything, you know, who are the vendors, what's the story, all that stuff without necessarily saying, this is part of the 15 videos I want to represent my company for the next, you know, two, three years. Alan, to your, to your first question about you know, the, the posting and yeah, it's definitely not something that I enjoy doing. I don't necessarily enjoy writing but what's always been important to me. And when I started as a videographer and I think this goes to a lot of different professions, but obviously just speaking from my experience, you know, there's a lot of fly by night videographers. There's a lot of people, I get stories all the time. You know, someone disappeared with my footage or someone didn't show up or this happened and that I know that goes, you know, DJs, I'm sure, you know, planners, I'm sure you guys all know those same stories. So it was always important for me to legitimize us as much as possible in every way. And so, you know, being visible and posting things and having our names out there, you know, it goes to the podcast, everything else, but, but having us there, so it's not like, well, who is this guy? And you Google him. And you're like, well, I don't know, like, what is this going on? Like, just so, so the blogs are always as part of that. And it was obviously, you know, you're producing the videos anyway, and it's trying to get as much out of the weddings that you are doing. And, you know, if you're doing 20 weddings a year or 15 weddings a year or 50 weddings a year, you know, you can get 50 or a hundred or 150 blogs out of those weddings, even if you are a lower quantity vendor. Right. Because I do think that sometimes that's a misconception is, Oh, well, some photographer does a hundred weddings a year. They're going to have all this con I just, I don't, I don't do that many weddings. I don't do that many weddings. And I do think even if you are a smaller boutique, you know, vendor of any kind for us videographer photographer, you can get just as much content if you want to to do that and just to finish talking. Cause I do feel like I'm rambling on here. It's weird that are usually used to being the guest, but it just, just maintaining that visibility. And I think that COVID, and the shut shutdown recently has really showed me, you know, there are some videographers that I know that I literally have not heard from seen from at all in eight, nine months. Right. And obviously, you know, you hope everybody is okay. And obviously everyone's dealing with all these things, but at some point, you know, people are still booking weddings and are still searching. And it's just been really interesting to me to see across the board, you know, what vendors are still here, what vendors are still doing podcasts, or are you still blogging still posting and doing social media? Versus there are people that I have not heard word from since, you know, February. So it's interesting. And sadly, I mean, there are some vendors that have gone out of business and you just, you just kind of hear through, you know, I heard about one of our caterers that I love working with. I heard it from another venue that they had gone under. So, you know, it's kind of just keeping you relevant and saying, Hey, we're alive. We're so here we are still booking. So, and you know, I think that's the biggest thing for us is that we want to stay relevant. So when we are booking 2021 couples in 2022 you know, we do have that content on our blog saying, Hey, you know, if we are still having small receptions or sorry, small weddings or outdoor receptions or whatever the restrictions are going to be, you know, next week, two weeks, six months from now that we provide that information saying, okay, here's given this situation, here's a great way that you still have the wedding you want just on a smaller scale or how to, you know, as Ross from friends says, you pivot. Yeah. I mean, people aren't going to book 2021 weddings in 2021, they're going to start booking them now. And it's the same thing. You know, I remember seeing a videographer that was starting and, you know, kind of jumped into the business in like June or July. And you're like, well, this is people are not going to be booking, you know, July weddings in July, you know, they're going to be booking for the next. And it's the same thing with posting this stuff. You, you know, I would like to be relevant now to book for next year and the year after, as opposed to, you know, waking up in a year and going, Oh crap, I gotta get some stuff going. And meanwhile, you know, your website's gone down, your social media has gone down all these different things. I mean, it is a lot of balls. You have to juggle all the time. And it's easier for us, you know, with obviously without a family. And I, and I do sympathize for vendors that have families and are trying to juggle, but it's just more things that you gotta, you gotta keep up and it is, it's a constant, if it was easy, I think everybody would do it. So exactly. Can you guys talk about the importance of consistency? I, I know that we've all had the experience either with wedding blogs or other blogs you go there. And the last one was from June of 2016. W how do you view the importance of staying up to date and being consistent? It's huge. It's everything. If you aren't staying consistent and relevant, people are just going to say, Oh, this post is from June, 2016. This is not current information. Or you could tell that they're not putting a lot of effort into it. And also too is, you know, COVID has been crazy with being home and being teacher principal, sometimes award in at my house and trying to figure out, okay, looking at my business, what are the main things I need to focus on? And sometimes blogging has taken a back seat. But having consistent posts, maybe if I don't have a post a month, I may have four, or I try to at least get one post a month. Obviously my posts was supposed to go live today and literally with everything going on, it's going to go live tomorrow. So it's just, you know, just letting people know. But I think too, it's with the consistency goes to batching work. And I tell my, my shameless plug for my other company that I helped with wedding professionals as social media. And it could be blogging virtual assisting the social attendant is batching work. It's real easy. And you don't need to write these blog posts that are, you know, a thousand words, because realistically, if you don't capture them as attention within three to five seconds, you're going to lose them. So that's why we always put a great, you know, video up top or a great photo because that's going to capture somebody saying, Oh, Hey, that's at my venue. I want to, I want to see more or, you know, a great headline, but again, that should work. I usually take you know, one to two hours a week and really focus on social media and blogging and say, okay, what are the hot topics right now, obviously with the new Rose with Kobe, do I want to do new blog posts with that? And is that going to be timely once that gets published the next week? Is that going to be now outdated? So again, it's, it's being on top of the time. And so for me consistency is key and just saying, okay, I'm going to commit to four blog posts a month. And then it's showing your clients and your potential clients and other vendors you work with saying, Hey, I'm going to post every Tuesday and Thursday, or I'm going to post every Wednesday. So people know to come back and look for it. And that goes to also, you know, having some type of, you know, newsletter, storage, something. So people are going to sign up. So, you know, if they see, Oh, Lori did post a blog post today, Oh my gosh, alert the media, something's wrong. You know, they get an email every Tuesday and Thursday of a blog post goes live at 7:00 AM saying, Hey, new blog posts from elegant affairs. So people know to expect that. And then I also you know, repurpose that for Instagram too, so that they maybe didn't get the email. If they're not on our mailing list, they're going to see it on Instagram or Facebook page. But again, it's knowing what your limits are and what you're capable are and giving that to the masses, because if you don't do that, people are like, well, I'm not going to look back at her blog because she hasn't posted anything in like six months. And then all of a sudden she starts posting. So you just, you know, set a plan and then you just execute it. What do you read? How important do you think consistency is? I was going to say, would you like me to comment? Yes. I think consistency is huge first and foremost, like Lori said, if people go to your sites, they're going to look and see, you know, if the last video you have on your portfolio is from 2016 or whatever. I mean, people know this, that kind of thing. People are really smart. Obviously I think this year with, you know, like I have not had a public 20, 20 wedding video, just because of restrictions and limitations and things like that. But, you know, I think this year will be different, but for the most part, I think you want to have consistent content on your site that is fresh for people to see more so than that. Even besides what people might care Google cares a lot about consistency and that's kind of where, and I said before, most of our blogging does go where, where if only one person ever reads my blog posts, but it's Google. That's really all that I care about in terms of them recognizing that there's new content on my site and recognizing that this is a fresh active site. And I think that that's important. I update our site at least, you know, four times a week, five times a week, you know, putting new stuff on whether it's a podcast or whether it's the blogs, whether it's whatever else. And, and what happens with that is when Google, you know, people always talk about, you know, ranking higher and wanting to pay people to do all this SEO and stuff like this is all stuff that you can do for free. But, but when Google sees, Oh, there's new content and then they go back, Oh, there's new content. And then they go back, Google is going to recognize your site and, and crawl it. And, and basically like refresh it more and faster. And the more that it does that, there's a reason why, like, ESPN is like the number ranked number one sports website. It's because there's a billion people adding content to it all the time. And then all these people reading that, you know, it's obviously not a billion people are going to be reading our wedding websites, but, but the idea is, you know, I see these photographers and they post and they go, well, I'm going to sit down today and catch up all my last six months of blogs. Like I just did 15 blogs. Isn't that great. And it's like, you need to do that every, you know, take those 15 then, and then post them once a week, twice a week over the next six months. It does you no good to dump all that stuff and feel like, look at me. I caught up on all this Google. Yeah. I mean, obviously having more keywords and having more content on your site is always going to be better, but Google wants to see that consistently for long periods of time that we back in when, when COVID started. And I was trying to figure out, cause I was paying someone to do some backend SEO stuff for us. And when I was obviously trying to save money and, you know, and we, we canceled that right away. I was trying to figure out a way to get new video production content that wasn't weddings because obviously we do the weddings, we do the wedding recaps and things like that. And we, I just started this like trending and video blog. And then I just, you know, I put it on the corporate side. I don't even really share it because it's not even really it's not even that, that like interesting. And it's just me kind of like going through like looking at it like, Oh, okay, this, this new thing, or this new thing about Oh, you know, tick talks got a new filter out or whatever, but, but things talking about video, but what I do is I go on there. I post every Monday, Wednesday, Friday. And like I said, I didn't even really share it. I just posted on Google. It doesn't cost me a penny. I mean, I post on my site, doesn't cost me a penny and our site's gone up the corporate site, which obviously isn't updated nearly as much without the podcast and the videos and the blogs and things like that. I mean, it's gone up 20, 30, 40%, you know, in visibility, just in the last couple of months and me not spending a penny on anything except just like posting content three days a week. And so what I do and I hate writing, but I, I do force myself on that one to do it. You know, I post my one on Monday and then I suck it through and I write the next one. And so then Wednesday, I can post the next one and then I, you know, suck it up and I write the next one. And so I'm always one ahead and it feels a little more free in that way. But yeah, I, I see these photographers and I was talking with Mike tobolski is a friend, and he was trying to figure out stuff to spend money on with the wedding show, getting postponed and all of that. And I said, you don't need to spend money on things. This doesn't cost me a penny at all. I sit in front of my computer for 25 minutes in the morning and I post the thing. And then I look up an article and I write the next one. But what that does is it tells Google, Oh, this site updates itself all the time. And so we need to update that all the time. And then when you Google like Seattle corporate, whatever, now we pop up because of that. And it doesn't cost me anything. So My observation is that a lot of wedding vendors view blogging the same way they view exercising, eating vegetables, and maybe flossing. They know it's good for them. And they would like to be the kind of person that did those, but they don't want to do it. Yes. H how do you overcome that for yourself? How do you, and do you have any suggestions for people who are just like, Oh God, I don't want to blog. How do you get over that, that hurdle emotionally and get excited about it? Yeah, it definitely can be a daunting task and you're just like, okay, I run out of all my content, I've got to think of new stuff. And so then it's just like sitting down, clearing my head and saying, I've got to do it. I've got to sit here. I will set my watch for, you know, an hour and say, okay, I'm going to try to bang out as much content as possible. And I just do free write. I don't do any editing right away. I just write, write, write, write and sometimes I'll even do like a voice memo and just say, okay, here's some topics that I needed, you know, we need to talk about, or maybe I'm talking with a vendor and they're like, Oh my gosh, I really wish brides would understand X, Y, Z. And I'm like, ding, ding, there you go. There's, you know, a great content or two. But really it's just, you got to sit down and do it. And it suffers a lot of people. It's it's the whole thing was social media. People know how important it is like blogging. They just don't want to do it. So that's why, again, why I started my other company just because I like doing this stuff. It's fun for me. And the ways that I can help other businesses succeed, especially now with, you know, a lot of us are struggling that, you know, 2020 was supposed to be, you know, my best year ever. And clearly it's not. And next year I kind of, you know, joke offhandedly with people. I was like, pretty much I'm working for free next year. And I know that's a lot of vendors and it's like, you know, we're trying to find different avenues for, especially the Seattle wedding industry to survive. Cause it's been really hard. It's been hard for all of us, whether, you know, you're a DJ, a videographer, a planner, a florist everybody's been affected and we all need to come together as a community and say, we are one, we are going to get through this. And again, it's talking to our couples and saying, yeah, the sex all around, but you can still get married. We're still going to have the most amazing day ever just on a, you know, it's on a different scene. And so I think for me, that's why I look at blogging as a way of giving back to my couples and even to my vendors and saying, Hey, I loved your wedding. I want to blog it. Those ones are a lot easier for me to write just because I have an emotional connection to but again, you just gotta put your big girl pants on and just do it. It sucks, but you need to do it. That's right. Read, put your big girl pants on and do it. I got 'em. I got 'em on to Lori's point to the voice memo thing is a fantastic tip. And that was something that I used. I use off and on and I used a lot doing the corporate one was, you know, and I obviously have a microphone, but you don't to have, you know, your, your iPad has a microphone or your, you know, whatever computer has a microphone, but you know, you can just go on and do like a quick time audio recording and they'll use the mic on your computer. And yeah, just talk like Gloria said, you know, talk and then, you know, what I did was I would kind of pay, cause I hate writing. I would pay and you can, you know, pay the, like, transcribe all that stuff. If you really don't want it right. Or else, you know, you could sit there and just, you know, re type out the stuff. But I do think people are better talkers sometimes than they are bloggers, but blogging should be conversational. Right. Because Google doesn't want, you know, whether you play on there, whether you play on there, whether you plan it, like all these keywords, they want conversational things that are on topic. And so, yeah, like Lori said, you know, just speaking out loud and doing it, and then either going back and transcribing that yourself, or you can go online and pay one of the sites to have a robot, do it for you is a great way to do it to, to the point about, you know, getting out and doing it is this one of those things you have to do. And it's, you, you need to figure out if it's not something that you're good at or you Accela, is it something that you're willing to pay for it? And so, like I said, I don't I don't particularly enjoy it. My brother is a journalism major and I pay him to do it and I pay him, you know, like twenty-five bucks for whatever the words are. And then 50, if it's a longer one and you know, you might sit there and think like, Oh my gosh, like that's, you know, why would you pay for that? Yeah. Okay. So you figure over the course of a year, maybe it's $1,500, right? I mean, if you're, you know, if you're making 60, 70 grand a year, you know, doing wedding stuff, you know, at some point you need to figure out like where you're spending money and if you're spending money on your website or you're spending money, you know, you could pay, you know, I think wedding wire right now is, you know, about 12, 1300 bucks a year for my category. Right? And then you have to pay that twice. Cause now of course we have to be on wedding wire and the knot, you know, you could take that money and pay somebody to do the blogs for you. And I guarantee you that would be a better use of your time and money than trying to be one of, you know, 5,000 photographers on the not, you know, all paying $1,500 a month. And so that's kind of where I get to it is, is either, you know, you need to do it. And if this really is something that you don't want to do, then find, you know, like Lori has children find, you know, find a high school or that, that wants to make some money. Like I said, my brother works and then he goes home at night and it's an hour later. And then he can go buy whatever the heck he wants to buy. And it's a win-win cause I don't want to do it. So that would be, my advice would be, if you don't want to do it, find somebody and find the situation that works. Maybe you could do a trade. Maybe you could do some photos for someone that wants to write and then you can figure out that way. But yeah, it was one of those things that you, you have to, you have to invest somewhat in your, in your wedding company to make it grow. Oh, absolutely. And I'm all about bartering to that. If it's like, Hey, I'll write you three blog posts in exchange for a branding session and you know, things like that, that I'm like, Oh, that's a win-win for both of us. So again, I think too, if you're just kind of in that mindset, you're like, I'm not going to block pretty much not going to happen, but I know I need to do it, outsource it. Yeah. Really easy to do. And you know, other, the other thing too is when, when I blog to kind of what you said read is that conversational. I never want to talk down to my clients or just saying, you know, as a wedding planner, you need to do this because that's not realistic because that's actually going to be counterintuitive to my business. So it's, you know, having that one-on-one conversation and just saying, you know, Hey, when you're looking for a venue, here's some helpful hints and tips to look out for. And you know, those questions that as a couple, if you don't have a wedding planner, Oh, I didn't even think about asking, like I want to do this wedding in March. And then I find out when I get there, Oh, the venues tent doesn't even go up till April. Well, that just wasted my trip, you know, up to this venue. Cause I didn't even ask about that. And then you find out once you sign the contract, Oh, I can't have my wedding in March because their tent is enough. So it's just ways that again, giving our knowledge of this industry and our particular niche and giving it back to clients and potential clients, because a lot of people that do read my blog, aren't from this area aren't gonna book me and can be other vendors too. And again, it's just sharing, sharing the information and sharing the wealth of knowledge that we have with other people that from years of experience, I would consider both of you to be among the more successful and prolific bloggers in this area. What would you consider to be the bigger challenges that you face with regard to blogging and how do you overcome them? I think kind of what we just talked about is just sitting down and doing it cause there's some days I just, I don't want to do it. And I just know like, Hey, this is on my calendar today. And I, you know, I got my little sticky note on my computer saying, okay, Sunday is logged in. And I just like, Oh God, I dread Sunday. I don't, I don't want it to happen. I just, you know, you're like, can we just skip over Sunday and not just do it? But I think just knowing what content is out there, that you can, you know, put a fresh spin on and just writing it and just doing the thing, just because, you know, you need to do it, but it's just physically sitting down and saying, okay, I'm gonna sit at my computer for the next 20 minutes and just free write everything. And sometimes I start on a topic for like,uyou know, picking the best, you know, music for your wedding reception. And then I'm like, okay, kind of like I do, normally I get off topic and then I start talking about something else. And then sometimes I'm like, okay, now I have two blog posts out of this one that I'll just cut short and move to the next week. So again, it's just sitting down and actually writing it, A challenge that I don't necessarily have in our business. But I think that a lot of people might have, you know we obviously have the wedding videos right from our, from our weddings, you know, to post about. And if you're a photographer, obviously you have the photos from your wedding. But a lot of feedback I get when talking other vendors about blogs is they go, why I never got the photos from that wedding? Right? Like, what am I, what am I supposed to do? I never got the photos. I emailed the photographer. I did whatever. And you know, my advice with that is always, you know, let's say you're a photographer and let's say, yeah, let's say you do, maybe you're up and coming. And you don't do a lot of weddings with people like [inaudible] does, are like phenomenal with sending all this stuff to you, right? Like if you do a weddings with certain photographers, you know, you're going to get a thousand images and you can do all this stuff you know, take your camera, take your phone and do behind the scenes photos. And that's what, you know, I've talked about before. And if you're a florist or if you're a, you know, a calligrapher or if you're assigned painter or if you're, you know, it doesn't matter what, what industry you're in, in weddings, but take your photos and write about it. That way that the not having the photos is such like a BS excuse, I think because honestly, Google doesn't care if you have the photos or not, they really don't. I mean, yes, it's nice. And obviously, you know, for people that, you know, you want to make the blogs to people on the reads and all of that, but Google doesn't care about that really. I mean, it's nice to have those to make your site look good, but ultimately, you know, you need to have the content there. And so if the idea is, why do you don't have the photos from that? Or I don't have the video from that either, you know, reach out to those people and say, you know, what the heck, or just do that. But it's such a crutch that people say, well, I just, I don't have this stuff. I can't do it. I don't have it. So that would be my thing and my advice. And literally, I don't think there's any industry in weddings. Like I don't think there's any vendor type that couldn't do that and have the same success without, and you would never need a photo at all from a, from a photographer. And I think for us, I mean the only time realistically, where having the professional photography photos really matters is when we do the real weddings. And obviously if you don't have those, their wedding doesn't get featured and that's read, and I know this from a wedding where certain content was not, we weren't able to publish it. You know what I'm talking about? I feel I do. I do. Yeah, I do. I do. But here's my thing is so like say I want to write a blog post on creating a wedding budget. Well, sometimes what kind of wedding picture can you have? I mean, we don't do money to answer. So when you see the couples, like with money, just float down, like that's great. We've actually, I did a blog post with that, but there's so many free sites that you can use stock photos. That, again, Google doesn't care that it's not your photo. And again, you have unlimited use for it. So why not use a stock photo if you're talking about, you know, creating, you know, a music playlist or you know, creating a budget. I mean, I can name five different places online that you can get stock video and stock photos. And sometimes you don't even need a credit, the photographer or videographer on there, or it's not even credited on there. So again, I wouldn't use that as a crutch either. Like what reach set is, if you don't have the photos, you can't block, well, put your little headshot, you don't even even have to have a photo. It's just about the text. That's going to rank you for Google and for your analytics that just writes something at the bottom, just put, you know, Reid Johnson, best made videos and have a little blurb about himself. Well, he's got a picture it's not ideal, but at least there's something. Yeah, I know. I mean, don't get me wrong. I mean, it's obviously you would prefer to have these photos. I mean, we would prefer to have all these things. I'm just saying, I just hate that as an excuse, that, that, that yes, if you have any wedding in the world where you have photos, please do that. But I'm just saying that using that as an excuse is, is not in 2020 is just not w with so many resources out there is not acceptable. And it's, I think it's the same thing too, you know, not just for blogging, but for social media where it's like, well, I don't have all the professional photos. Okay. Well, like you said, take behind the scenes there's preset, so you can buy, you know, for relatively inexpensive that, you know, you can take a really bad dark picture and make it beautiful. And as long as you have your client's permission that you're able to shoot on your own, then you're fine. lori, on your blog, your real weddings posts in particular are chock full of great professional photos. Do you have any tips and tricks about obtaining those from photographers? As Reid mentioned, sometimes photographers are very focused on sharing their photos and getting them out there, but other times, photographers get pretty busy, especially given how compressed our wedding season is. And, and if you, if you work with a photographer in September, it may be that they've got all their summer weddings that they're still trying to edit and get through. How do you break through that? First off, I make sure that I have a model release in my contracts for my clients, that they are okay with us using information. And we also include the blog on there to just be, and that most times couples are like, Oh, I'm really excited. I'll be on your blog or that's how I found you kind of thing. And then when it's finding out who the photographer is usually with photographers, we've worked with on a regular basis, it's never been an issue. But if it's a new photographer or a friend of somebody, I just say, Hey, I would love when you have your images, I'd love to be able to have the gallery or you pick your favorite, you know, 30 or 40 images that you would want to have shared on social media and our blog. And most times I would say 99% of the time, photographers and videographers are amazing to getting us images. And again, kind of, depending on the timing of the season, sometimes we get photos back within two weeks. Sometimes it's been six to eight months before we see photos. So we just know like, and I like to do everything chronological in terms of real weddings. But again, it doesn't really work, especially in a COVID free wedding season. Because again, I can get a full wedding gallery in two weeks for, let's say a July wedding and then a June wedding. I don't get those photos until October, November. So it's just, I like to kind of just touch base with the photographer videographer, but not bug them. Cause I obviously I know that they've got other weddings that giving the wedding planner photos is the least of their concerns right now. But I also say too, Hey, this is remarketing for you that you're going to get, you know, backlinks for your website and you're going to get a credit on our website. So people are like, Oh my gosh, that video was amazing. I want to figure out, Oh, that's the videos. Oh, I want them for my wedding. So we're also doing you as a service that you're getting a free ad with us and also recognizing the amazing work you did. And I only run into a couple of times with photographers where they've wanted me to pay them for images. And so then I just say, well, you know, I enjoyed working with you, unfortunately. Well, you know, I don't have it. Yeah. And it's, it's been really interesting with that. And, and they're like, you can't even have the couple send you photos because they own the copyright. So again, you know, I'm not going to ruffle feathers, it's their copyrighted work. Then we just leave it alone. And then, then I have to deal with a couple of saying, Oh, well you just, you skipped our wedding because we know you how you do it. And I said, well, unfortunately we didn't get access to your photos. And I have had on one occasion, the couple actually tell the photographer, we want our wedding featured on the elegant affairs blog. So they released seven photos to me. So seven is better than nothing. But again, most people want, want that free advertising and showcasing their work on blogs, not just ours, but anybody. So I would be very hard pressed now to find vendors, especially now, since everybody's hurting for business saying, no, you can't use my images kind of thing. So Just to touch on that too, because obviously we have the videos and stuff for our blogs, but if you are a photographer and you are posting a wedding blog and you are not tagging and crediting all the other vendors, you need to knock that off. And it's one thing where like you know, sometimes they like forget to do the videographer and that's fine. I mean, I'll like message them and be like, Hey, Arlene chamber is like, you've forgotten an inch of it all of a sudden, sorry, like, you know, she always just easy, but there's so many photographers I work with and they don't credit anybody. Like they don't credit anybody and they don't, or like the list. And they won't link them or they won't. And then my guys, like Lori said, putting the links on there, you know, not only is great advertising and whatever, and people could, Oh, who's the florist. Okay. Whatever. But that, again, it tells Google, all of these things are connected. And if you're, if you're on, you know, like spoiler alert, like we rank pretty good for like wedding stuff. And so when I tag like other vendors from our weddings, like, that's good for them too. Right. And if you're a vendor and then you take back and forth, but you would be amazed how many photographers I work with. And I can think off the top of my head and I want you know, throw him under the bus. But like, they'll just put, you know, the they'll, they'll write, you know, two sentences or whatever, and then they'll post their photos. Oh, well, that's our blog, that's their blog. I'm like, man, you are missing 75% of the thing if you're not listening to the vendors and linking between the sites. Because again, Google doesn't care about the photos. I mean, yeah, you can put your little, all tags and whatever, but Google cares about the content and then the links that are on there. So you need to link not only to give credit to everybody that deserves it, but also like for a selfish reason, you are handicapping your blog. If you don't do that. Right. And I think too, that for me, that's big for Instagram too, because I see a lot of, and I'm not going to just say one category. It's everybody, everybody needs to take everybody. So typically what we do is before the wedding is we like to send all the vendors, a tag list of every single vendor, even if it's a small vendor that has a little part of it. Those they're still part of that wedding. They, they still did a beautiful job that needs to be captured and needs to be reflected and thanked. So that's my biggest thing is I always make sure I find out who all the vendors are and I try to get their website and their Instagram handle, because really those are the only two that really matter to me. So that we can give credit on the blog. We link to their website and obviously on Instagram, we do their Instagram handle. And we try to, we try to link if we do it an Instagram caption, we try to do it in the post. Sometimes if it's not a vendor, say it's a beauty vendor and it's a reception shot. I at least make sure that they're in the caption as opposed to the photo, but I try to do both. And when I try to, then when I share it to an inside story, I do the same thing. I share all the vendors, because again, at the end of the day, whether it's any form of social media and blogging and social media, the more people you tag, it's going to help everybody involved. So that's my biggest thing is it's free advertising. Please take everybody. It's huge. Yeah. Also, yeah, I don't care if it's like the restroom vendor that like brought in the portable, you know, like, I mean, I'm talking like every vendor that's on the thing and yeah, I, Gloria said you would be amazed how many times I see all these shots from weddings and like, we're never tagged. Cause it's like, well, it's a, it's a reception shot. Like you weren't, you're not in the photo. I'm like, yeah, you're not in the video. Like getting a photographer. Like you're not in my video, but I still tag you and you know, everything. But I see that all the time. And I've had weddings with like three years ago that still get posted and tagged all the freaking time. And I'm never included in any of that stuff. Cause, well, it's the video, it's the, it's the reception shot you weren't in there. And you're like, well, okay, do you want me standing? Hey, no. Like, you know, we're all part of the event. Yeah. I don't care what, what vendor it is, because if you think about it, like if it is like the fricking restaurant people, if there's only a couple of them in the, in, in the area, right. So she has, is, are like, if you take them and all this stuff and you have a good relationship with them, like they're also giving referrals out, back and forth. Cause there's not that many of them compared, you know, the 10,000 photographers there are. So Yeah, I would also say that philosophically, we are a team putting on a wedding, right. And so a photographer gets great shots of a beautiful room because somebody decorated it. And because there was a good florist or, you know, if there's a packed dance floor, that probably means that it's a successful DJ or those kinds of things. So it's nice to, for a photographer to recognize that many people contributed to producing that moment, that produces that great image for them. She gonna say, what if you don't include a lot of dancing footage in your wedding video because I'm kidding. Well, then you, then you should seek professional help. And re-examine your values because people don't need 10 minutes of what the green beans and almonds look like. They need 10 minutes of people dancing, read. So where we were going next Laura, you had mentioned Instagram. And what I'm curious about is when you, when you have a blog post, what next, how can you take that blog post and leverage it and get more traction out of it? More eyes, more benefits from it? I would say definitely having a mailing list on your website so that people subscribe. So they know like, Oh, people that are on my mailing list are going to get an email tomorrow at 7:00 AM that, Hey, there's a new blog post from elegant affairs. Then I also repurpose that information. I make a really cute graphic in Canva. And then I shared on my Insta story and, you know, promote it there. And I also promote it on my personal accounts too. So the more places that you can get it, and again, it comes back to tagging. So let's just say I do a wedding with Reid and I, you know, and we do a real wedding and I'm going to take all the vendors that are part of that. So then Reese can see, Oh look, best made videos was tagged. Well, I'm going to share it on my Insta story too. So again, it goes back to that, the more people that you tag and include the more times it's going to get shared around. So again, use it everywhere. If Facebook is huge for you. Ideally our ideal client is on Facebook. But we just do it because it's just easy you know, share it on Facebook. And then sometimes face was a little bit easier because that can get shared a lot easier with people saying, Oh we did David and Krista's wedding and David and Krista share it and then their family share it. And it's just kind of like the telephone game, the more people that you can have share, share it and read it the better it's going to be for you for No leadership read. I believe you're on Instagram. Right? I was going to ask you a quick, I was going to ask you a question now. And I was going to say what He asked my friend, what if, what if you share a podcast On Instagram and that vendor did not also share the podcast, That would be a podcast that we could have for another day, the etiquette of sharing podcasts. But for now, what I'd like to hear about is your approach to taking content and then expanding its impact. Yeah. So I have a pretty set thing we do for all of 'em. You know, we do Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Pinterest, and then there's like this Flipboard, which is stupid, but Kate gas, neither got me on it. And so I've listed on Flipboard. I don't know if anyone reads it at all, but I just sound like a plugin and I just click in the chairs. But it is, it's a pain, it's a pain in the butt. It's a pain in the butt to pay us to post on the album. Lori knows. And it goes back to the end of the day. Like these are things that we know that we need to do, you know, they're hard to do, but it is, is a pain. Like I gotta do it on my phone. I gotta do the Instagram thing. And then I got a short nit to do on Twitter. It's all these different things. I know they have sites that like, I was on Hootsuite for awhile and they like post all this stuff, but they tell you that you should be posting natively on all the different platforms that you are doing and, and that's, you know, take it for what you want. But I would recommend that as well. I wouldn't recommend one of these, like you know, they, they aggregate and posts on all the different stuff I would log in to each of that. That's just me. Cause I'm OCD about like you do it also, the reason why I do that is it's not consistent on all of them. Right? So like, if you, if you post something on Instagram and then do you like this share on Facebook button or whatever, it doesn't tag all the same people in it. Right? Like it'll post it on your Facebook timeline, but it won't. So, you know, I like to like the best name, weddings podcasts. I like to go onto Facebook, you know, tag all the people, take all the vendors. Well, if I posted it on Instagram and then just share that it wouldn't get that same you know, whatever. So that's how I try to maximize it again. I don't, I just do it all. So we just maintain the visibility on everything, right. I mean, I don't, I'm not the best with like analytics, like what do, where do I get the most, whatever from obviously if the couples are on Facebook and they share it with your family on Facebook, they'll get more whatever. But I always just want to have that base level of visibility across everything. And so that like our Twitter wasn't last updated two years ago, you know that, Oh, Hey, they posted a thing, you know, because people Google you, you know, whether people think that or not, like if people are looking at vendors, they do look and see where they're out on everything. And so like lori has said as well, you know, making sure that you have recent stuff on all the different platforms And here's one thing too, and face that's really good that you can actually schedule your posts on Facebook. So I'm like with read, I'm very, I like to natively post, obviously I will store stuff like with Instagram on plantarly or plan or one of those accounts, but then I manually publish it myself just because I want to have that engagement and not posting dos. Also the I, I am always very hesitant about the scheduling things just because life happens. And I don't know, I just always have the weird, like if I schedule something for next week and then I forget to whatever and there's an earthquake or something, I don't know. I just always get weird about that. Like I like to know, okay, this is what's going on at this time when I posted it. And I do think it's great to schedule things and like, you know, we post Best Made weddings every Monday, you know, or, you know, and the things happen, you know, it's in the morning or later, but like, it's schedule, I just in, and please like, don't quote me on. I mean, you can do what you will, but I'm just saying personally, I do worry about scheduling sometimes if, if you know things happen and then you can't, you know, And I think at the end of the day, when it comes to blogging, have a content calendar, so you're going to map out, okay, I'm going to post every Tuesday and Thursday. And I'm going to talk about this. Tuesday is going to be budget. This Thursday is going to be David and Chris's real wedding. And, you know, go that way so that, you know, so you can create your graphics and everything beforehand. So again, try to do it all set aside two to three hours and say, okay, I'm gonna do blog posts. I'm gonna do all the graphics. If you do schedule, if you don't schedule or at least get it loaded in your drafts and Instagram it just makes life a lot easier. So you don't forget like, Oh my gosh, I did post my blog post, but I didn't share it on Instagram or I didn't share it. You know, all these different places. I, I suspect that both of you have heard the theory that attention spans are shortening that that people respond better to visuals than words that people don't read as much. How, if at all, does that impact what you do? I think kind of what I said earlier, I like to kind of have that at least for a real wedding. I like to have that video or great image. That's going to capture someone's attention saying, Oh my gosh, I need to read this. And I also would say the last two years, we've actually shortened the content just because I was writing a whole novel and nobody is going to read anything. So it's, you need to be short, sweet to the point saying, okay, if I'm going to talk about budget, here are the main five bullet point items, and I'm going to break it down that way. So it's real easy to figure out I'm not going to do paragraph after paragraph, after paragraph. And that's even with the real weddings I talk about, you know, working with the couple, I kind of ha I, you know, I have a template, what I'm going to go, and I just have to change the words for each couple based on, you know, their season, their, their vendors and things like that. But, you know, once you kind of come up with a system, it makes it very easy, but be very powerful with every single word you choose when it comes to blogging, just because you're going to lose people's attention right away. Even if people don't read it, Google will read it. So that, that is my I mean, I wish I had a better answer. Like I said, lori, it does a much better job constructing those, those you know, must read educational blogs, right? I mean, it's just the truth, right? You're, you're at a higher, different level of that, of, of providing that service. I am much more on the maintenance and this is something that needs to be done side of things. But even if not one person in the world reads your blog posts, Google reads every blog post you write. And that is also very important. Sure. And both of you have been extremely successful with, I would say different strategies. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, I mean, I think it's great. I think Laura is, you know, it's, it's two sides of the same coin and that's why I think it's, it's really, it has been really interesting today to hear Laura's philosophy on it. And just because it is it's neither is right or wrong. It's, it's, it's two sides and, and hopefully you are not as right-sided with it as I am, but that you can incorporate a lot of Lori's ideas in there, but I do. Yeah. I think it's, it's two different, valuable ways to look at the same. Well, I think at the end of the day, you have to look at why are you doing blogging? And you got to focus your attention for that. Obviously the way I'm doing my blogging is different than redoes it. And that's what works for him. And so you just had to have to sit down like, okay, am I doing it for Google rankings? Am I doing it for content-based? Whatever it is, you know, there's no right or wrong, but what I was going to say earlier too you know, Google also likes more content. So it's kind of been a double-edged sword with us, cutting down our blog posts. I have to think is that hurting us by shortening it down, knowing I'm looking at it from a reader's perspective, as opposed to Google, which I think I need to look, I need to come to a happy medium lori, what's your baseline minimum number of words per blog posts. Oh, it really depends. I like, I would say around a thousand to 1500, granted, don't go on my website, don't go on my blog. And then like, I'm going to copy it and see how many words, but ideally if I can get a thousand, that would be great. But realistically, it's going to be between five and 700, 500 to 750. So again, I'm trying to find that happy medium. And I'm still a work in progress on that. Yeah. I just, I would say if your blog posts is less than 500, you should not bother posting that. No, because it's not enough. It's not enough. And I see all these photographers, they put, you know, they post like two lines and then all the others, if you're, if it doesn't have 500 words, it's a waste of a post and you shouldn't do it. And realistically it's an Instagram caption. I mean, yeah. It's not a blog post. No. I'm curious about whether either of you start thinking about your blog post, your real wedding blog post prior to the end of the wedding, is there anything that you build into your process as you work with a couple that, that finds its way into that eventual blog posts? Like you say, we met at this coffee shop and I really noticed the way so and so looked at so-and-so, at least me for the real weddings, I don't write that stuff down. Sometimes it will just be like, Oh my gosh, I met them here and, or I've known the co or I've known the bride, or I'd known the grin for a long time. So we have that connection. But I don't jot anything down. But if it's something where they're going to do something really cool and over the top, then I'm going to be taking mental notes and just saying, Oh my gosh, make sure that the photographer videographer gets killer shots of this piece that I know I'm going to focus on for our wedding. So we do a pre-wedding questionnaire because not all of our weddings have such wonderful wedding planners, right. That we, I like to know that we have you know, lots of content of, of, you know, what is happening, where, and all these different things. Cause we, we just have a base level of information that we need, right. Obviously, if you have someone like Lori, we get a lot of that, but we can't always be lucky. And so we have a pre-reading questionnaire and part of that includes questions for the blog about like, how'd you guys meet? You know how, what was their proposal? Like, what are you guys doing after the way? I don't know, there's like four or five questions on there. And then the couple writes those. And then we post that on the blog post. And so that's half the half the work is done. So what we do does again at 500 word minimum, so Scott writes 500 words, and then anything that, that couple fills out, cause it might be, you know, they might write a paragraph, it might be a page or it might be, you know, we met in school, we just add that to the end of the blog post. So, you know, every blog post is at least 500 words and then it could be 700 words. It could be a thousand words. And then also what we do is we have them put their wedding website and I'll put this stuff up from the wedding website on the blog because that wedding website is going away. You know, they either know the not kills in like two months. I don't know what the timeline is for when they kill those websites, but we add all that stuff on there. And again, that's not a it's not a crutch to writing a blog, we still write the blog, but then we use that stuff to, to add in and that's written from the couple and that's a great, and then it's, it's usually really thought, you know, they think it out it's really well written and it includes a lot of stuff. And so if you were to read the blog, not as Google, but as someone that really, you know, want to get to know the couple, that, that would also be like really great content because it is straight from the couple's heart about like, tell us about the proposal. Oh my God. You know, we were in Hawaii and I was tired and then they got me a bottle of water and there was, or whatever, but like that's also really good content besides for Google. Now it is good, you know, reading content that people care about. If you want it to get to know the couple in the, in the blog post. Absolutely. Great. Well, I want to say, I certainly appreciate both of your time today. I think it's been a very interesting discussion about blogging and hopefully we've inspired some wedding professionals to dip their toes into the water and then take a big swim. lori, do you have a final I would say lastly, if you are wedding professional and you still, after listening to what Reid and I have had to say about blogging and you still don't want to do it, but you want to check me out on the social attendant.com and we do blog posts. So let me know how we can help, but again, understand how important blogging is to your business and future business. Great Reid, do you have any final thoughts? How was your experience as a guest? It was good. I appreciate it. I don't get to be on the side of the microphone very often. So that was good. I appreciate you taking the time to do this alan. Yeah. My biggest thing is, you know, like, like Lori said it, I think that's a great point. If you don't want to do it, find somebody that will do it. That was specialized in that. I know that there are a lot of people right now that are really hurting and business. And, and like I said, you know, people are trying to figure out like where, where do we spend our money or where do we, you know, where do we invest? How can I get ready for next year? And a lot of this stuff. Yeah. Obviously if you, if you have that advertising budget, yes. Like, you know, spend it on someone like Lori, that that will do the work, but you don't a lot of these tips that we gave you today don't cost any money at all, if you don't really want to. And so that's what I'm saying. Like, I think there is a base level of money that one needs to spend to maintain the successful business of any kind. Right. I just, I, there, there are some, you know, photographers in the world that have never advertised ever, and they do everything word of mouth and they don't have a website, all these things I, you know, for, for the mass, vast majority of people, I think there needs to be a base level amount of money and time and energy that you are spending. And there is no better way to do that. Then setting your website up for success and making sure you have content on there for Google and for, you know, searches and all that kind of stuff that I just think that it just gets lost and people think like, well, I just don't even know where to start. Or even though like, you need to start, you need to be consistent about it and you need to take some of these tips that we gave you So great. And can you tell our listeners how they can reach out to both of you? Okay. Yeah. So for elegant affairs, you can reach us at www dot elegant affairs, Y as in w a.com or my other business, the social attendant.com Great Johnson. You can go to Reid at best made videos.com is my email, but best made videos.com is the email address. And everything's on there. Like I said, we have you know, we have the blog, you know, we, we have the podcasts, we have the corporate side, if nothing else, you know, take away from today, the importance of just generating content and having stuff on there, there's nothing worse than going on the site. Like we've said that, that hasn't been updated in a long time. And I just think it's so important to does it put a fresh go that pan on all the time and keep everything, you know, keep all the, all the boards nailed to the wall, you know, keep everything all in place and, and do that. But yeah, Best Made videos And it's never too late to start. So if you haven't done it and months or years start next week, start tomorrow. Start today. I have done, I was looking at this today. When COVID started, I started doing the like I said before, the, the corporate video blogs 86 of them I've done as of today. Right. from, from whatever it was middle of March, you know, starting it cause I wasn't doing anything right. And I thought, well, I'm not doing anything so that, but that's 86 blogs. That hasn't cost me a penny that I've done that. So yeah, there there's no, there's no worst, you know, there's no bad time to start, but that was something that I just said, I'm going to get up every day. You know, I got 20 minutes or an hour, whatever it takes and do that. But yeah, that's 80, whatever blogs just from, from when COVID started. Great. Well, thank you very much. Both of you. You've been very inspiring and I hope a lot of wedding professionals take your advice and get off their butts and start blogging. alan, where Can I get one of the sweet dragons banners? Oh, well, as a matter of fact, if you email me, I will be happy to send you a picture of the dragons banners. And if you go to West Seattle, you just break into Reid's house and you can have the Jersey. There you go. Thanks, Alan. I really appreciate it. This has been a, this has been a takeover. It has been the takeover.

Episode 25 - Wedding Toast Do’s and Don’ts

So thank you all so much for coming today. We're talking about wedding toast do's and don'ts today, this kind of spurred from. I think one of the conversations Allen and Irene and I were having with Rebecca about wedding timeline. Sorry, Greg, you weren't on that one, but we were talking about wedding toast and reception things, and we found that that would be a really great kind of standalone episode. I have my own story just from a couple of weeks ago with toast. So we're going to be talking about wedding toast. Do's and don'ts today, both from like a couple that's planning the wedding. And then also, if you are asked to toast at a wedding, whether some things you should keep in mind. So we have two DJs and I'm sure are well-equipped to talk about that as well as the photographer that has photographed, I'm sure. Many, a many, a wedding reception test. So thank you guys all so much. Why don't we start with you, Greg, can you please introduce yourself and tell us who you are and what you do? Sure. My name is Greg ladder with affairs to remember entertainment and I am a wedding MC and disk jockey. And Irene, thanks for coming back on again. Who are you? Hi, I'm Irene Jones. I own IJ. Photo. And I'm just happy to learn all of the things today from these cool DJs. And Alan with his new snazzy microphone, he's not wearing his accent, found Mark Hasher today, but I've been promised that's coming up soon. Why don't you introduce yourself? It's coming up very soon. Alan Chitlin is my name. Puget sound DJ is my company. And Alan and I are, are planning a takeover podcasts where Alan is actually going to be taking over the, well, we can say that we don't have to say what it's about, but we can say this to take over podcast is coming and that it's going to be a good one. So we're excited. So thank you guys all so much. So, where do we start here? I think, I think we started, if I'm remembering the conversation, we were talking about wedding receptions, trying to figure out the timing. How long should they go? You know, when, how long do people dance? And we had a wedding in a couple of weeks ago and it was kind of casual. It was kind of the, the COVID wedding thing and, you know, a little more casual and we ended up toasting for like an hour and 10 minutes, which was just kind of way too long for not only the vendors, but like just kind of everybody there. It just kind of was like this huge, like a lump of. You know, uh, you're trying to process everything while we're going through all this. So I think that's kind of what we w we were talking about, you know, what's the right times for toast. What's everything else. So, Alan, this was kind of, you're a little bit of your brain child here. Where do you want to start? Where do you think we should start the conversation today? Well, I think we can just go around a little bit and talk about some of the things that we have seen that have made toasts be effective. And some that have caused them to drag. And for me, other than the ceremony, the toasts are maybe the most emotional, personal section of a wedding day. I just feel like it's an opportunity for the people who really love and care about a couple. To express that and see why. And so I'm very committed to trying to make sure that that's successful. That. The, the people who are giving toasts are put in a position to succeed that the guests here, everything that it's well-documented for the videographers and photographers who can capture all the content and all the emotions. So I think for me, that's sort of the framework where I, where I think about some of this stuff. How about timing of that, Alan? What I mean? This year. COVID it's a little bit different. I think it is, as far as that goes, but let's say. In the past or when things get back to whatever the new normal is, what do you think. Uh, what do you like for, for the timing when to do the toast? So, uh, great question. Um, I, I like to try to build an emotional arc after dinner. So any of the activities, like a shoe game or anything like that that are just sort of comic relief. And then I, uh, prefer, I would suggest cake and then I would go to toast because for me, that really builds up in emotion and it builds the point where gosh, Uh, I want. I want everybody to be paying attention and listening and taking this in. Um, and the one thing that I absolutely cringe when I even think about it is having toasts during the meal. Like I want them to be. Uh, I want everything to be quiet in the room. I don't want there to be the slicing and the clinging of plates and they don't really like it when the caterers are trying to bus the tables. Uh, what do you think time wise? Hang on. Hello. Give me two seconds. I'm sorry. It's a bad cable. Let me reach into my emergency box and get you a new one. I wonder if that means. That it wasn't recording us. Oh, Yeah, I don't know. I'm going to go with cable, not Mike. I don't read lips. Oh, my gosh, I do. And I've been such a, I've been so disadvantage since COVID started, because I can't read anyone's lips. And I'm so frustrated by it because all of the weddings for all of the years is maybe partially deaf. Uh, Irene, you are the one person on this call who is not aware of this. But I have really bad hearing loss and I, I wear hearing AIDS. Oh yeah. So I'm totally with you like the, the masks both from a sound standpoint, it's not clear. Anymore. And just from a cover the mouth and you can't refill it. It's been really challenging. I heard something there. Read back. Check. Okay. Wow. That was weird. Do you know anybody that could edit this video so we can get that part out of here. Yeah. Well we're back. I was having a little audio issue. That was very weird. I think if people watching the video version could see my panic in my face. When Irene, while Greg and Allen, we were talking about tests. So continue the conversation. I think first off it would be valuable to talk. Alan, I think did a good job of this. What is the role of the toast at a wedding? I think some people think it's like an obligation or it's an honor. It's a thing. What Greg from your mind, what is the role of a wedding toast at a wedding? Yeah, I think Alan said a good part about the emotion of it. Um, I think that, that, that the. People that you asked to toast, take it as seriously as the couple who asked them to toast. If that makes sense. When we get the, uh, the couple who says, you know, Oh, you know, we're doing our final planning meeting. I should probably ask somebody to, to stand up and give a toast. Odds are that the TOSA probably not going to be as heartfelt and, um, memorable as, as the ones where the best man is emailing me nine months before the wedding to see how I can help him with the toast. Or I'm emailing him. Um, So [unknown], and I'm not saying either one of those is a bad or a good thing, you know, we've seen people put a lot of effort into ones that, um, You know, they thought was funny and it was too full of inside jokes and things like that. Um, I'd say in addition to that, it's scheduling them, you know, you could. You could have as few as, you know, one toast to as many as. You know, besides everybody toasting, like you were talking about your one a few weeks ago, but, uh, you know, even if you just kind of had the wedding party and stuff like that, four or five, six is, is fairly normal. And so if you all of a sudden have your, your clothes or go first. That sucks, man. I, there was a video on Facebook going around yet. I watched actually just yesterday that the, the, in the middle of his toast, it was in England. The dad's steps out of the room. And a video comes on of him going and, uh, getting the bride stuffed animal at her house. All James Bond style. And it's Epic and it's great and stuff, but you could tell it was really good in the video was amazing. But if with a tiny bit more of scripted of how he did it, it would have been that much higher. Cause he kinda just said. You know, Oh, I got to go and, and, and, you know, somebody show them a video, you know, and it's like, they're just could have been a little bit better set up. So sometimes that's set up. For something that in theory could be Epic. Um, Is a, is a payoff. And a lot of that comes by talking to us, you know, to make, let the photographer know to where to be and what's coming on and. Um, so communication. Yes, that's it. And I read this, someone that, you know, Documenting right. You know, were, were Greg and Allen are kind of facilitating the toast. You're focusing more on the emotions and things. What are you, what are you looking for? What is the place of the toast and the wedding's in, in your mind? The toast for me is a recommendation to the guests of why these two people should be together. The chances are the people that are toasting or someone that knows both bride and groom and not every single person that attends the event. Nose bowl parties. And so you get an opportunity to give a little insight, to give a little love and explain like almost to an employer. Really. This is why you should hire this people. It's these why these two people should be in love. And if you do your job, right, everybody in the audience comes away going. Yeah. These two really are made for each other. This is great. I'm so happy I'm here and I'm supporting this. So you have a really important role as a toaster, and you should make sure that you do it with style and with grace and authenticity. Um, not necessarily drag the whole thing down because you don't want those guests to go. Why am I here? Why am I watching this? Absolutely. It definitely gets. Yeah, there's definitely that fine line. I think we want to figure that out today to kind of that fine line that you're going to walk. Is it, is it important in your guys's minds? Um, How does that focus go? Cause you get a lot of people come out. Maybe the best man is, is just talking about the groom. You know, they try to kind of segue in, you know, the bride at the end or one or the other, you know, it's not all brides and grooms, but just, you know, one, one. Uh, you know, wedding person to the other. Uh, D do they need to know both, like Irene said, is that helpful, Alan? What do you think when you're looking for people to test. That's a great question. I love asking the couple who do, who who's on your list, you know, are you going to have parents? Are you going to have people in your wedding party are sometimes. There's a friends that may be introduced them, but maybe aren't in the wedding party, but have a role or a story to tell. Um, and I believe that order really can help. Um, Tell that story. In my case, I liked recommend that parents go first. Because parents tend to speak very broadly. They can speak about this. Their child and how they developed, and then they can integrate this new person into that person's story. Um, and as you go along with the peers, they can really kind of zero in on the here and the now, and they probably know more about that relationship. Uh, even though the parents do so that the progression of those toasts ends up telling that couples full story. Hopefully if, if they're done well, Greg has mentioned that to you then. So is it almost like, kind of like a set line out for like a band or like you're setting up like an order of, uh, of, uh, you know, performers, like, you know, you kinda, you really want to set. Have kind of like, you know, your main event is that kinda how you look at it too, Greg? I do, but not necessarily. It's not the same weekend and week out. You know, it's not always the dad of. You know, Traditionally, there's kind of some of that stuff, but I think all that's kind of thrown out now about it's more who to the tradition is more still who speaks not necessarily the order. Um, so really you can kind of talk about that and. You know, if you've got a one set of parents who, who doesn't know the bride or the groom, because you know, they're on the East coast and, you know, have it spent a lot of time with them, then maybe you don't get that broad aspect of it like Alan was talking about, but the parents that are here do. But then the parents that. You know, maybe you went to visit a couple of times, so they have some very specific, um, Uh, you know, story. So if they do then let them maybe go first and then, you know, kind of like Alan said, build up to that thing and, and, um, and then I don't know about you guys, but I always like the bride and or the groom to go last. And, and nine out of 10 times, the reason being, um, Is that I want them to close so that we don't get just unknown stragglers to go up at the end. Um, you know, once not too many people are going to have the guts to go and speak after the bride and groom. I've seen it. I'm sure. So do you think. I have a solution to that. First of all, I just don't believe in an open mic. Um, you know, because th for, for many reasons, but one of which is the last thing always ends up. Anyone else? Anyone else? Bueller Bueller. We'll I guess we'll move on now. Um, so if a couple does want to add some spontaneity, what I'll do is make announcements during dinner. If you'd like to give a toast. Uh, tonight, please come see me and then I'll put them on the list. And then I will make sure I've got their name and I've got their relationship with the couple and so that I can properly introduce them. And then that whole order still flows. I will, I will say one thing about probably every other year and usually with an older couple, um, second marriage, something like that, maybe a little bit of a smaller wedding. Um, they've. You know, I kind of try to not talk them out of it, but kind of mentioned like the stuff you said the reason not to wear some alternatives, but when they kind of say, Hey, we want to open the floor and then I I'm working the room. You know, with my microphone. I would say. Once every other year that I've done it. It has been spectacular. And, you know, so maybe like we're doing it every year and then every other time of that, you know, It works really well. And, and what always happens is you get the schedule people to go first. Um, and they do well, and it's nice. And it's kind of the people that we've all talked about so far. And then you kind of get the middle people who are, um, the ones who. Uh, you know, they kind of get up and say, well, I don't really have anything to say, but I just want to tell you guys that I love you. You know, and that's nice, but you know, we know that, you know, they're there and all that sort of stuff. Amen. After them though. You get the people that never would have gotten up. And it could be that because everybody else has, maybe they feel a little bit obligated or it could be that, um, they've had enough drinks or whatever, but it's that third tier. That have been the most spectacular. And literally like, like I'm almost crying. And I had one. I'll never forget it. Is that the Edgewater hotel? And literally the guy got up and he opened with, you know, Bob and Susie saved my life. That's his opening line and he proceeded to tell a story about him. You know, hitting the bottom of the barrel and you know, it didn't have many friends left and they let them stay in their, in their, in their basement. And this guy would have never gotten up. You know, and I can tell most people in the room either really knew the story or didn't know anything about it, or didn't know him. But man, by the end, And everybody's hugging him. And then a regular time. This guy never would've gotten up, but he really felt like, you know, this was five years ago and he felt like he owed them his life literally. So that was a cool payoff. You know, the bride and groom didn't know that, that he was going to say that or get up and stuff. So. Every once in a while, there's that payoff, it's kind of like, you know, playing a song that ever works in every once in a while it'll work, you know? So. Yeah, it's a tough gamble. Irene, what do you think about the open, the open mic? Format, like, kind of after the set Tesco. Uh, well, I have had the opposite experience every time, Greg, every time there's been an open mic, um, I've had someone get up and recite the lyrics to gangster's paradise. And you look at you, you look around like what. So, yeah, as a photographer, it can be really hard because it's generally with open mic. Those are where you get the Wanderers. And they start moving around, they start doing something and then they expect me to catch things that I didn't know that was coming. Right. And it is really hard to anticipate the movements of a drunk guy. And where he's going. So I don't generally get me wrong. I'm not recommending it at all. But in that rare time where I'm, my hand is forced a little bit. It has about every other time work. So we try to not let it happen most of the time. Yeah, it probably is about the capital more than anything else. Right. If you have a certain person that it might just work for, but it's generally like a 90 10 rule. Yeah. Well, and somebody said a work thing. Like one time, the. You know, the boss got up and spoke and then all of a sudden, you know, the boss was partner felt like he had to get up and speak. And so. That happens sometimes. But I like Alan's role of, uh, or, or guidance of, of asking people to come up and sign up. It's kinda like karaoke. I like that too. I liked knowing and being able to anticipate, because. Barney is just the logistics too. And I want to get into more of this, about, you know, kind of recommended number of toes. You know, how long should it tell us go all those sorts of things, but it's really hard. The effort. If you're a planner, if you're anyone yet, you're trying to figure out this reception. And you're like, well, we're going to do open mic and it could be 45 seconds. If one person wants to say something or it could be, I mean, I've seen it get passed around and passed around, you know? And then it's like this endless thing. And you're just like, when is this going to. It's just not going to end, you know what I mean? And so I think, I think it's, it's interesting because at that point you really are trying to balance, you know, The couple and their wedding and having good things. Sound about them, which is obviously awesome. But then you also need to look at kind of like everybody else in the room that, you know, like maybe it has no. Like, you know, I'm always a big proponent of looking at the wedding day. First and foremost from the couple, but then also from the people that are at the wedding and sometimes open Mike while it might be a router, you know, riotous funny time for the couple, it might be a little awkward for. Well, I don't know what's going on there. I don't know these people or whatever. Uh, one thing I wanted to finish our thoughts out before we move on too far. Uh, the, the wedding couple speaking alumnis, Ania. They should always end the toast. Is there ever a rule where they are. Say what. Greg was saying that you said that to, you said that the goal is there ever a rule, is there ever a time when the couple should not say thank you at their wedding and why is that always the case that they should always do that? I read, maybe you go first. Uh, yeah, well, these people came to celebrate you. They took time out of their weekend. They gave you a whole day. Um, and they care about you. They brought you a gift Stu like, say, thanks. I get embarrassed when couples mentioned vendors. And I know that that's nice of them. I personally want to hide under the table though, when they pretend that I exist. Yeah, they, um, I would say 90% of the time they, they, um, they do. And then, or the end they say they want to, from the beginning, the couple does. And then of the remaining 10%, maybe it's half and half. Whether they don't or whether they then do the day of feel, you know, somebody has gotten in their ear or they've had a couple of drinks and, you know, I try to talk them into it. If they don't though. I will prep the best man to say something on. Something similar to on behalf of the bride and groom, you know, I want to thank you guys for coming. You know, on the East coast, traditionally, a lot of times the couple, when they get introduced, they'll come in and get on the mic. And thank everybody right then. So then when it comes to the toast later, They don't necessarily need to say anything. Um, though, Alan, I've got a friend who always says, you know, it's a great opportunity for the groom. To, to, to talk about his wife, you know, like, Hey, this is my wife look hot. You know, I mean, There's a very, very unique opportunity to put yourself out there and, and, and, and really. You know, say what you're thinking. Alan. Why should the couple always say thank you at their wedding. Well, I think just overall it is important. To show that gratitude. And as Irene mentioned, people have sacrificed to be there with you. And so you want to show that appreciation. And I believe what Greg was just describing is the time where they can say that and have the maximum effect on the flow of their wedding. So you do this grand entrance. They've come in to great fanfare. Um, and there's a big song and people are hopefully standing and cheering. Uh, to me, that's the best time for. One of the members of the couple to say, thanks everybody for coming. We really appreciate it. This is so awesome. Um, And then I feel like that is a great transition then to dinner or whatever is going to come next. Whereas. If you just come in and people are screaming and shouting and black IPS are playing and then you're like, okay, well here's how we're going to have dinner. And then you turn on Jack Johnson. There's just like no transition. There there's no flow. So that's why I like to have them say thanks early in the evening. I shouldn't, it shouldn't be lost for the audio only listeners that Alan has a prop microphone, this wealthy. Is he saying when he's, when he is. Show use as a transition to where you hold your microphone. I want to get into that too. I just, I just wanted to finish up just this one thing. I think it's incredibly important as someone that has traveled to another state to go to a wedding, they didn't do toast. I understand that. I understand it in 2020 and things are different and not everybody does everything. And you know, we did not do a garter toss. I completely understand not wanting to do a variety of things. I think it is so important that you think the people that came to your wedding, I can't describe enough. And Dorothy will still talk to this day about the wedding that we went to and they did not. Thank anybody. And, you know, we, uh, there was many of the other issues they ran out of the food, everything else. But, but the thing that stuck with us was I thought, man, this is crazy. We just spent a lot of money to come. You know, we travel took time off work, you know, hotels and all this stuff. And then to not be thanked for that, I think even if you're shy, even if you're not someone that likes public speaking, the wedding that we had, um, Two weeks ago. Yeah. They had the hour and whatever. The groom was not a public speaker. Right. He said that, but he still got up and said, yeah, I really appreciate everyone being here. Thank you for, you know, they had been together for like 10 years before me. I knew that was hard for him. Right? Like it was a big ass, you know, big guy kinda shy. Right. And I get that, but it, but it means so much more and it'll mean a lot to your guests, you know, even if you are shy of just making that effort, I just wanted to kind of like get that point across. No. Yeah. Uh, so, so when we're trying to figure out number of toes, You know, we've kind of danced around this a little bit number of toasts and then like, yeah. How long should each person tell us, um, where, where do we want to start with that? Alan? Or Irene's got it. Yes. Irene. I really can't stand more than a five minute toast. Just because my attention span is too short. And I think most people are that way. You can tell a really good story. You can have an emotional highlights, you can share something that's insightful in five minutes. Yeah, you can do it in three, honestly, if you're good. Um, you definitely can't do it in under one though. And so when someone gets up and says, Hey, I love you guys. This is awesome. Glad to be here and sits down. That's not a toast. So, you know, do a, put a little bit of thought and energy into it. Try to get one, maybe three, five, if you're fantastic minutes in there, because you know that you're the highlight, you're the entertainment right at that moment. I think that's gonna, I think people also. Just have no concept of time as someone that has, um, Has, you know, I work with people, I, you know, we want this video to be two minutes long or five minutes longer, but you know, it just, uh, five minutes is a really, really, really long time. And so, you know, like it is, you know, so, so yes, you should be able to get that across because yeah, if you have this big, long drawn out thing and you're up there for that long. It is a really long time. And it's a long time to ask if people too, you know, that are seeing people they haven't seen or eating or not eating or trying to congregate. And then, but yes, I think, I think that Alan, what do you think for a timeline? How, uh, how long is it? Good speech time. I think three is perfect. And I'm with Irene. I think one's a bit short. Um, I have seen longer toasts be successful. If they're good. If they're well thought out and the person is speaking articulately and, and have something compelling to say, and maybe has good stories. Uh, I think I've seen posts that go well, and I have seen toasts that lasts 35 or 40 seconds, but they seem. Uh, like they're lasting all day. Cause they're just so bad. Um, And, you know, you, you want to avoid that. Like, if I'm giving a toe, like, Uh, Greg, can we play act for a second? Can you introduce me as a toaster, ladies and gentlemen, it gives me great pleasure to introduce to you our first toaster, the evening mr. Allen Chillicothe. Oh, hi everybody. Uh, for everybody who doesn't know me, I'm Alan Chitlin. You don't have to do that. You've just been introduced. Um, and I'm, I'm really, uh, I'm not very good at public speaking. Um, uh, but, uh, you know, I really felt like I had to do this. Because I'm the best man. And, you know, people who go into that without, um, a positive attitude, they just lose you pretty quickly and it's hard to recover. So I think that. A rough guideline is probably three minutes is a good toast. You know, parents I've seen longer parent speeches that they've had a lot of years to think about that speech. So I'm giving five, if they need it. I have been planning my oldest son's wedding toast. Not kidding. Since the day he was born. I've rewritten it in my head at every wedding while I'm listening to someone give a bad toast, that kid is going to get the world's best house someday. And it will damn well be under five minutes. And can I get a copy after you're done? Because I could use that then. There you go. Yeah, I'll probably have a copy when I filmed that, you know, I'm just assuming. Yeah. Now, Greg, what do you think about tea toast, time, time, limit. Yeah, I was doing voiceovers this morning. It had a page of materials at bat a minute. So, um, well at the font size, I need to reel to read it, but. Um, but yeah, if you think of the screen of your computer, a page on, on word, It is, uh, is about a minute. I was, I was just under a page and it was coming up about 50 seconds every time. So. You know, that's a good guidance. You really need more than five pages. Um, You know, So I think you go with what works and, and people, you know, need to do it. I think also, you know, there's a great book called a wedding toast, made easy and it's by a friend of mine named Tom. Hi back. And Tom is a great. Um, he, he used to be the PR person for a spokesperson for, uh, during the Olympics for, uh, for the Vancouver, a tourist agency up there. And this book, I gave it to my clients for 10 years and it's a lot of good it's really good stuff, but a lot of stuff, it talks about his practice. You know, grab a mirror. Sit in front of it. Heck do it on your computer if you want. You know, and, and I mean, nowadays with, with, with video, Or your phone or whatever videotape it lock look into, but make sure it's like right now, so you can see yourself as you're doing it. Um, practice holding a. Alan's practice microphone and, um, And just see how it sounds. And then, you know, Probably ask somebody else's opinion. Cut it, cut it as much as you can. And. The other thing that we haven't brought up and it's something to think about is, is maybe that person that, um, That either has a little bit too casual of a toast to give for a wedding or that the bride and groom are fearful of that person. And what they'll say. And one suggestion I have for that person. Is maybe it's more appropriate for them to give that toast at the rehearsal dinner. And that might be a great time to give those inside jokes. Um, Maybe a little bit more drunken stories, you know, something to embarrass people a little bit, but. You start talking about. Past dating life with either couple. It's not a good thing to bring up at the wedding. No, I think that's a great, I think that's a great idea. And that was something that we, I think even did it at our wedding. You know, cause we're talking about this, you have the right number of people and killing the mood. Isn't the right word. But just, you know, having things overstay their welcome sometimes. Yeah. If you are, you don't need to have 12 people do toast at your wedding, you know, you can. Like Greg said you could do, you know, mom, dad, you know, best man maid of honor or whatever. And then, yeah, I think Dorothy had some of her friends give a, give a speech. You. At the rehearsal dinner, like you said, a little more casual. Also, if you have someone that's, that's nervous about giving the toast. Lot less people write a lot less pressure. I mean, we didn't even have, you know, they. They could just even get up, get up and stand that, you know, they don't have to do all that with the microphone and stuff. If they don't want to add the rehearsal dinner where there's a little more. Uh, casual. When we're talking about, you know, Greg is talking about, you know, writing things down, practicing. I wanted to get everyone's take on this. Um, Do you want to have something really written out? Are we okay with, should people focus on bullet points? Should people, is it okay to read things off your phone nowadays? All these different things, right. Practicing. Okay. Alan shaking his head. He has thought so let's start there. But do you go with, I'm trying to get out, like if I'm going to get up and give a toast, how prepared should I be in? Should I have it scripted? You know, word for word, or should we have kind of some general points? What do you guys think? Allen. Well, the first thing, I believe that we'll talk about staging, uh, at some point today about how the people who are giving toasts and the couple are going to be, but in general, I want that emotional connection. And if I'm giving a toast, I want that emotional connection. And so. Uh, it, it certainly, you know, you, you can write it out, you can print it out, you can have it on cards. You can do outline. I think all of those things can work if you know it and you've gotten it sort of memorized. Be able to speak extemporaneously. Because I can sit here and I can talk to somebody with a piece of paper here. And I can still be connecting with them. I can be right there and I can say read. I remember when you and I first met at [unknown] wedding and I knew you were going to marry Dorothy, you know, um, However. If I get on my phone, that's all gone. Like, there's just, you, you are getting this phone in your face. And you, you lose the emotional connection. I've seen it happen so many times by the time the wedding day takes place. If somebody was giving, Joe says, Oh, I've got it on my phone. There's not much I can do at that point. I just, I roll with it. But if what your goal is is to achieve some sort of emotional connection with your couple, right. Then, then having it on your phone just is a nonstarter for me. I read. Yeah. I read this, someone that obviously is trying to photograph those emotions. What do you think about all this? I can't stand watching people trying to juggle a cell phone, a microphone and a glass. You have two hands, three things. There's a problem. Uh, and generally like people do the thing where there's cell phone screen gets dark. So they go, Oh, hold on a second. And then the scroll through it for a couple seconds and that totally loses your momentum and your flow and pictures look terrible. And he's standing around holding your phone. We don't know what you're doing. Um, and I can't get any icons tacked out of somebody who's toasting. Um, in that three minute period that you're speaking, I really want to get a photo of you laughing and making eye contact with the couple and the couple reacting to what you said. Um, whether it be tears or laughter or something, because I want them to be able to see, and those two images side by side, that there's a relationship that you guys share. And even if the context of exactly what you said has gone in the still image, the emotion still lives on. And that's really beautiful. So you have to have that barrier pulled down like Alan was saying, so you can look them in the eyes so you can speak directly to them so that they can feel that what you say has value. Otherwise, I get photos of the grim. Looking at the table and he looks bored because he's just waiting for you to finish whatever story you're telling so they can move on to whatever's next and get some cake. Oh, we serve the cake before the toast. There we go. So just to play devil's advocate a little bit. I don't necessarily disagree with you guys at all, but you know, the bride's 22 year old sister has probably never held a piece of paper in her hand and spoke from it. Well, she's got to learn, man. Yeah, I'm just saying. And she probably never will. You know, most, most college people don't have a printer. Learn how to memorize stuff. They do that in college, still Mamie, but not virtually. But, you know what I mean? I mean, Maybe there's other ways around it. Maybe they need a teleprompter, you know, your iPad can work well for that, but I understand what you're saying. An iPad actually works really well. I use that when I do ceremonies and, and it's kind of cool. Um, but there's still a printed out. Ceremony script in my bag. So we'll then also with the iPad, it almost is more like paper. It's a little, I think the phone thing like you guys are saying, I think you do get, get really lost in, in staring at a phone. You're trying to read, you know, where it is an iPad. You can blow it up a little bit. You can have it more like, you know, like Greg, if you do the ceremony, You can and still be able to project and look at it right. Versus being locked into like a phone. If that yeah. But yeah, but how do you, how do you convince the 22 year old to print something out? I guess that's where I'm going with that. I mean, what we could say is great and might be perfect for the parents. Perhaps the bride and groom, or we can offer to do it for them, but. You know, she wrote it last night. So she can use the paper. She wrote it on. And she wrote it on her phone. No voice to text. Dorothy made me cause we run them and then I had to, um, I pan out my, uh, you know, the vows. Piece of paper. And I was like, I've never written anything so long in the year. It seems like the most painful thing. They're trying to hand write that out. I was like, this is brutal. Try the ride in, on all the paper and not mess it up so she could have it, you know? It's somewhere. I think you're making a good point though, Greg, like we are working upstream against a lot of the way society's moving and that is hard to convince someone to do otherwise. Maybe if we can just have them lower at once in a while, make a little bit of eye contact, come back up for a bullet point. That'd be that'd make me happy. So speaking of which Alan, do you send out anything about toast? To the family and friends and bridal party before the weddings. It's on my list to start doing. Yeah, I don't either. I agree. And it's something that. Probably. Yeah. I mean, it. Yeah. I have a half written. I mean, I've gone through and taken notes and gone through and done it, but sometimes, you know, it's, it's pretty rare. Uh, if I contact anybody beyond the parents. So, but now we can just point them to this podcast. That's true. So how about microphone? Holding and we'll get to that. Yeah, I think, eh, I think it's a good idea. I mean, and I don't know what I read sends. I know for video. W w when we book, I have just a couple of little, whatever, that stupid thing you put the photos and the text over it, and you can make a level, you know, like an MP4. And I mean, I just, I don't even use like final copy, but I just use like, this. Yeah, you can even text it, but I do think it's good to have like tips for toast or what do you, I mean, I have that like, Why do we need to do for the wedding day? Like, don't worry about it. You know, how do we put the music? Here's your. I mean, I think it's a good idea. I think it's a good idea to have that, you know, we, we, I have an FAQ video for video staff and then I have, um, you know, like a pre-booking, but I think that would be great for DJs to be able to have. You know, tips and tricks. You know, obviously the Spock outs will be the number one resource, but I do think that would be good. Uh, uh, Before we get off of this topic? Uh, yeah, I think, I think the phone thing has just the, um, People are used to, if people are holding the phone, I'm looking at it that they're not paying attention. Right. Like I just think that that is ingrained in at least are all equals eight, you know, not the 22 year olds, but that's all in our heads. And I know that like, um, even yesterday I was recording the podcast for the XFL and. Uh, Paul, you know, my cohort was like, something was going on with this work and he was getting to tax. But you know, to me, that's like the most disrespectful thing to be looking down at the phone. Like, we're trying to have a conver you know, like we're trying to record the podcast and he's over here. And so I think it's the same thing with toast. Like you see people with a phone, you see him looking down and you assume like, I read that, like, I don't know what they're doing. Like, I don't know whether, you know, like I assume they're reading the stoves. So, yeah, I think there's just trying to, you know, if you're going to use a phone, you. Don't don't be glued to it. Try to project a little more, try to have it down a little bit. So like someone like Irene could get a nice photo of that because you do lose that emotion when you're kind of staring at that screen. It reminded me of a story read. I had a guy a while ago, get a phone call from a solicitor in the middle of a toast. Yeah. He's a ringer was on and everything. So we all heard it. He was like, ah, Turn it off and I'm like, how do you fix that paper? Doesn't have that problem. We have our, our Halloween wedding. I was live streaming it, and they were doing the re there was only like 12 people there. I mean, this was before that, obviously that they even were just, they were, they were like under the 30 people. And that the father of the bride's phone rings. Middle of the ceremony. There's something like 15 people. And it's like in a bag under this table in the back. If he's kind of like get up. Walk back. And I mean, I think he was like an important business guy or whatever, you know, like. The bride was like, well, you can now I'm like, man, it was so bad. Like have to get up and do like the walk of shame back. And then all the people are watching on the live stream. Right. And I see them commenting, like, what's let me do it. I want to see it. Cause they all know what it's like, imagining it. It was, it was really mad. Um, So Bob. On the live stream was the guy calling him. Yeah. Uh, so how so. So I had six toes. Is that a good number? I mean, I know we tied so three minutes, right. Less than five. So, you know, three is the middle just before we move on, we'll get into mic placement. I know the DJs want to talk about, you know, all these different things. How many people is the right number of people for a toast that's 18 minutes, 20 minutes. Is that a good number? I'm going to say five. That's man maid of honor, both the parents, both the parents, bride and groom. Allen. Uh, I, I think six feels about right to me. Um, Yeah. Irene. Well, it can't be one. That would be weird. So I'm going to go somewhere between six and two. Yeah. If you got, I think wedding couple, you know, best man, maid of honor, and then both parents, and then maybe like the best his friend in the world that, you know, couldn't be in the bridal party. Cause they had to fly in the night before, but they've known the couple for 30 years or something. Right. I do think like that six is, is a really is a good number. Okay. Or a sibling. One real quick thing. Ray, I had a wedding a few years back, which was 700 guests. And again, stick like cultural explosion. Um, and they had, they had 30 toasters, but they were smart and they broke it up into multiple sections. So they would do like a group of five than another group of six and another group of five. So it kind of space it through the evening and they coordinated the groups as like, these are all the brides friends from these different parts of her life. So it told stories about the bride. And then we talked about the groom. Then we had family and it really felt cohesive and I didn't get tired of it. But when they told me that they had 30 toasters. I bet lost it. Well, you also, I, you don't have to edit all of that. I mean, I know the funds, like I have to edit, like when it's an hour and 10 minutes. I was like it's an hour and 10 minutes. There's no. Oh, we take three hours and then we boil it down to 10 minutes, like an hour and 10 minutes to tell us is still an hour and 10 minutes ago. And there's no way. Yeah, devil devil. Double cameras. So it's a lot of stuff. Make sure your videographer is happy is the moral of that story. That was the thing not to get on that wedding, but we just, it was like really like coverage all day. And I was like, man, this is going to be really easy. Just, you know, not, not just to be weighed down with all this footage. And it was like throwing out the window. Like where I really need more memory cards. Like we need more batteries. Let's afatinib. Um, so, so DJs here, it seems like an obviously photo to, we really want to talk about holding microphones where the place people, where they do things like that. First off, I think we gloss over this at the beginning, but where should the toast be in the reception? Uh, ideally, uh, all things considered and maybe we can start with Irene on this one and then circle back around. I know lots of people have strong feelings on this one, but I love my couple to be seated at their head table or standing in front of the cake. If that's the best spot, whatever's a good vantage point for the couple. And then I want their toaster right next to them. So they can have a conversation that we get to be a part of. Yeah, it depends on the room. You know, every, I there's some place in the room that is our stage and that, that is where we want it to be. If there's multiple places like the head table, the dance floor, that the cake, I almost always leave it up to the photographer and videographer. Um, just because of the lighting situation. And. You know, I know a lot of DJs are real, you know, it's gotta be here. It's gotta be here now. I just let them do it. Plus, if it ends up the natural place that DJs tend to like it as the middle of the dance floor. But I feel like you're sometimes on an Island there and there's no place to set their glass down. There's no, you know, and it's just the name between toast. Kind of awkward. Yeah. And you gotta go like, grab their they're trying to like, Oh, let me go get my drink glass. And then they got it. Yeah. Yeah. So I'd say seven out of 10 times. I just. You know, we'll talk about it during dinner and with the two of you guys and, and, and try to figure it out whatever's best. But I, I tend not to have. S as strong a feeling about it, as long as there's not going to be feedback issues. So. Allen. I feel that the best effect is achieved by the couple standing and the people who are giving the toast standing next to them. That way they are on that same plane there on the same level. And if the person giving a toast says something funny, they'll laugh. If they say something emotional, they might cry. I think when the couple is sitting down, You just lose that connection. A little bit. Um, and sometimes I've seen couples that stay at their spot at the head table. And then it's kind of like, They're just straining their neck for the whole time. So I believe that having everybody standing makes her the best moment and I believe it also helped makes, makes for the best documentation. I mean, you can get a good video. Irene can get a good shot. Like she was describing before of the person giving a toast, making that couple react. You know, and having all P all those people in the same frame. Um, In terms of where exactly that is. I think that depends on the venue. And what the photographer and videographer and vision. It's nice to have a good background, not have exit signs or restroom signs. Uh, in it. Uh, if I can go behind the head table that allows the people who are at the head table. To see what's going on. If I'm in front of the head table, then the people at the head table are going to see there. Backsides of the couple and the people giving toasts. Um, but sometimes that's the way rooms work and you just have to go with what you got. I will tell you somewhere I've progressed just a little bit. I would say for. Maybe the, my first 500 weddings. You know, nine out of 10 times, we, I was pushing for me to do it at the cake table. And then I distinctly remember a photographer saying, Oh, well we gotta do toast before the cake because you don't want to have a picture of a half cut cake in the background when you do toast. So now, if we, as we've been talking about earlier in the podcast, we, we like to do the toast after the cake. So that kind of rules out the cake. Table as a good place to do the toast because yeah. And inside of a cake, isn't the prettiest backdrop in the world. So it's kind of, I mean, again, Since then I've kind of progressed into thinking about the other things, but it's kind of an interesting little thing that you don't always think about. Yeah, and I, yeah. And I want to touch on that to Alan when you're talking about the different levels. I totally agree. And especially if like the, you know, the food is being there, or maybe they've dropped off a salad or something. You know, they're always like shoveling food in and then all of the kind of ways are people eating. I mean, that's, it's tough where if they're standing, you know, they've got their drink and they are. Kind of pot committed to what's going on and not kind of distracted by what's going on at the table or whatever. Um, yeah. I guess my first question was, was going to be placement of, I actually placement in the timeline of where we think the toes should be not placement physical placement, so we can do that one now. So you think, uh, Before cake, after he came, we said, no dinner. Where are we? Where are we putting it in the actual timeline of the events? Where do we think Greg? You had said after cake, after dinner, after cake, Uh, my thought being that it's kind of nice for, I mean, it's also, it's a good use of time. And if, cause if we do cake afterwards or they passed cake out, Then we've got another 10, 20 minutes, perhaps. And again, it depends a little bit on how many toasts we have, but we have. You know, time for them to be doing. You know, it's like where the now, now we're waiting for the meat cake. So. Not that. You know, sometimes if people have their cake and they're watching, if it's going to be a long toast, it's kind of a good use of time. You could say the same thing for the first dance later, where people are eating their cake during first dance. Um, but I kinda liked the toast thing. It's again, it doesn't fit every room and everything, but. You know, if we can say dinner's over, let's say you're doing cupcakes and a cake, you know? They go cut the cake and then we invite everybody to come and get their cupcakes. They sit down. And we start the toast. Then people are kind of eating cupcakes as they're watching. And you know, it's not that noisy or anything like that. So. That's again, if it has to fit the room and the people, but. Generally, that's kind of. Efficient. I like it reverse actually, because I know that there's a lot of grandmas out there that the second that cake's cat they're out the door and they'll miss the toast. If you cut the cake first. And so I, I personally like, and I know, um, it's a good question to ask your caterers because it depends on their staffing. Um, I like it when they do dinner. Clean the place pass out the champagne at the same time, and then they do toast. And then as, uh, the toasts finished, they walked directly indicate cutting after they do their little, thank you. And then they can pass the cake while we were doing dances. You know, I've heard other people say that before. I mean, there was a DJ in town. Um, that was his big thing. And, and he made a huge deal about it years ago. And I just have never found that to be the case. Uh, I've seen it so many times. You got to hang out with more Mormons. Wow. There's there's uh, not a lot of drinking at the Mormon weddings. Yeah. We only live for sugar. I want to get to Allen. I prefer Irene's timeline, but my biggest thing then is. The caterers, always rushing into clear everything during the first dance. And it's always right behind the couple. So I'll all I know. I do like that more timeline-wise then they do need to wait. At least we need to get through the first dances and then you can clear that stuff. I mean, but it write it. It ain't like, I read, have you seen that? Like, it's always behind like the first dance and there's always someone like right the table right behind them cleaning everything out. So I'll do like timeline-wise. Yeah. Yeah. I luckily a lot of venues have a separate dance space, which is helpful. Um, but it can be problematic, especially if you've got a dance floor right next to that head table. Yeah, Alan, what do you think timeline wise? I like to get everything else done, then do toasts. Get all the guest's attention. May bring out all the emotion and then that leads so nicely into a first dance. You know, you said that the beginning Allen and I, I, I actually like building to that and then going to like a shoe game, or if we're doing any sort of activity and then roll that into the first dance or. Boucane garter toss after that. And again, it's not a rule, so to speak, but it's, you know, Just a preferred way and stuff. And I don't know, just different strokes, I guess. I liked the humor. I was going to make a joke. I was going to say thoughts of the shoe game and why we should never do it, but I won't let me know. You haven't even ever do it properly. I'll agree with you there. She never, what? You've never done it with Lilly. Oh poorly. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I want to talk about we, the, the mic thing before we go here, um, are. You know, are we fans of a mic stand? I like a bike stand as one last thing they have to hold. We know where the audio is going to be for the video. I know it gets in the way photographers. Hey, that same way with the ceremony. So, uh, let's talk first about Mike stands and then Mike holding and stuff from the DJs. Irene, do you like a mic stand or not? I don't care for toasting. If you do it during the ceremony, I will yell at you. Okay. That's a good point. So ceremonies. Okay. Or ceremonies now. Okay. Tostones. Okay. Yeah. I agree with that. It's then you can like drink thing. Okay. Allen Mike stand or not, or otherwise, what do you do for my placement? I know this is a big thing for the DJ. So this is your guys's time. Um, I am not a big believer in a mic stand. I do believe that more people can control their volume. If they're holding it. I literally go to each person. Who is giving a toast during dinner? And let them hold the mic, let them and give them kind of instructions on how close they need to get it. That is roughly 75 to 80% effective. Uh, 25 or so percent, I'm just going to, Oh yeah, I really loved. And that's torture on the DJ and on a videographer who is trying to capture sound. Um, and to Irene's point earlier, you know, if you've got notes and a drink, Yeah, you're right. You're holding those three or two hands. So the answer to that. Is put your drink down, have that be on some nearby surface, say what you want to say. Put your notes down, raise your glass and offer that toast. Yeah, I'll roll a cocktail table out there. Sometimes if I, if I know we have a fair amount and it's when, like we were talking about before on the Island, in the middle of the dance floor. For the toast and I'll just roll it out there. Just. Just because it should be, but. Pre COVID. I can't even think of the last time. I did. Like scheduled toasts, where we had a mic stand. Now when a couple of times where we've had open ones where they've wanted that, but their compromise was to have it, the mic on a stand. So people had to physically come up. Which is more than. So you get less of those. You know, Hey, I'm just here. Cause I love you guys sort of thing. Cause it is. It's a little daunting for some people to make that walk. But since COVID. Mike stand every time. Then I can clean it and put on the little covers and all that kind of stuff. And that might be. You know, I could see that being a trend for the next couple of years. So. We had one where they were. Uh, the, they were, the bride and groom were passing around the mic and they were a spraying the lifestyle, like. I was like, guys, it's not, that's not how it works. You need to sanitize the handy. Yeah, I have the cover on it, but I do think, right. I mean, I think if you seen that ties the afterword, I think you could pass it and sanitize the hand thing. I mean, do you have that cover on it to protect against this life of Gideon in there, but it's that? I don't know. Greg, do you have you have the booties on there? Is that really. Yeah. So that one I did when things were kind of legal and ship. My first job in a year of July. Uh, we, I literally had it on a stand. And I went up with gloves and swapped out the cover and, and wiped it, even though they hadn't touched it for the most part in between Maverick, one guy touched it. And I kind of like gave me this dirty look that I realized later was on the video. I'm like. You know, But, um, and since then I don't, I. You know, I don't know, I wrote the, I wrote the standards that the state has out there. So you kind of have to, uh, be a little bit careful as far as. You know, People are talking into it. So, I don't know if I'm more afraid of what they're touching or what they're, what they're spitting on. So, um, best case scenario, I would be changed the cover in between every person. Either if it's on a stand or not and wipe it down. So are we going to talk content of what you say and you're toast? Please do. Can I start, please do. Or if he's coming home. So I'm going to go close the door so she doesn't yell or scream, happy chairs at Rosie. And please continue. I can hear you. Um, it's really important. I think that you're toast has some highlights that cover the things that you understand about the couple and why you love them. But it shouldn't be these crazy long stories about every interaction that you ever had. Uh, I get really tired of hearing. The, this is how I met so-and-so, you know, because I think most of us know a lot of those stories anyways. Um, but I think it's good if you've got a little bit of insight to put those things in there. Um, uh, I would love to counsel people to stop telling bathroom jokes about the groom. Like come on guys. He's an adult's. Let's let them have an adult day for one day. Save that like Greg was talking about for the night before your rehearsal dinner and. Do your potty things then. But I mean, being an adult for the three minutes that you're up there, that's all I'm asking. Um, and that'd be good too, if you do in, in your toes, like you. You share them. A little bit of why. You know, these people are great for each other. The insight that you have, the reason that you were brought into this, you probably have a unique perspective on who these two people are share why their love is special. And what inspires about you. Um, I had a great couple of few years ago that the guy. About nine months before they were supposed to get married, nearly died in a car accident. And he was in the hospital for several months in a coma. And she was by his side the entire way. And when he came out of it, He wasn't really the same guy at first. You know, it takes a while to recover some of that, but he eventually got back to where he was. So much of it was because that he had people standing by him that loved him and that his wife was right there. And that's the kind of stuff that people want to hear is they want to hear. What about them as this great character that really puts them together. And I loved that everyone was crying through that entire one. I mean, they all knew his story, but they wanted to hear the story from the perspective of the best friend that watched her friend take care of her husband, you know? So, so bring your unique, spin to it in a way that we're really. Share some authenticity. You know, speaking of that, Irene. I've seen a couple of times and, and. If, especially like bridal party where maybe all the bridal party members are there, all the bridesmaids are going to get up. I had one this year where they all told the same story. About the bride meeting the groom, but from each other's perspective, And it was kind of cool. Um, and then they cut, they coordinated it. So the point being not necessarily that you have to, you know, all have a combined story, but the fact that, that this group of ladies coordinated their story. So there wasn't a lot of overlap. Now they wrote it all together and then kind of did it. But I liked that sort of thing. They Mmm. Obviously they put some thought into it and it was very memorable. And, um, you know, I enjoyed it. It was fun. Well, isn't that the key, like, just putting a little bit of thought and energy. Yeah. I thought we'll go so far and making you a fantastic public speaker and coordination in this room. Well, that's the thing. I mean, if you're going to ask someone, you know, I think we were saying earlier, you know, good. I always say if you're able to get a Bible. I don't really have a lot to say or whatever. Like if they're asking you to say something, you know, say somebody's wedding. You know, try to find something to say, and if you don't, you don't have to say. You know what I mean? Like there's no rule that says, you know, you have to do it or you have to go this long. You have to go whatever. I mean, Not, you don't have to ask every person in your bridal party to talk, you know, and you, don't not everyone that wow. That was really loud. Everybody that. Uh, you know, wants to talk, you know, it needs to talk, so. Sorry, I'm going to turn that off. That sounded like your easy bake oven was ready. Yeah. I was like a text message in my bam. Alan content stuff. Before we go, we're going to get ready for the Seahawks game here. Well, uh, two things, I think Irene, a Greg. I've had some great ideas there. I would also say that consider your own personality and who you are and have your remarks reflect that if you are sincere and emotional, Don't try and go funny. Right. Like Mo most people are, are not as funny as they think they are. Um, but if you're, if, if, if you, if you've got something in your heart that you want to share, Do that. Um, but if you are known for. Being funny. Uh, go for it and execute it and be funny. Um, so I think that's kind of unimportant thing and I, you know, I'm just with Irene, I think, try to answer the question. Why are you, why are you happy for this couple? Yeah, no. And then your remarks, hopefully you do that and there'll be a successful. I love that. Alan, not everyone's as funny as they think they are. I mean, I am. I know how you know, that, that one. Solid Greg solid. Alan, why, why should we not ask every person in our bridal party to stock in their wedding? Well, I think that. In general. A good maid of honor, a good best man can kind of reflect them as a peer group. And they can say things about that relationship that don't need to be repeated five times. Um, So I think that's one of the ways, and I guess one of the other things I would add is I, I. Do not encourage couples to force people to speak. Yeah. If you've got somebody who is just really uncomfortable. It's not going to be a good toast, right. And just let them be, let them take the night off. If you want somebody else to take their place or step up in some other way. Great do that. But you know, if they're that terrified of public speaking, they're going to be kind of miserable until toasts to like, they're going to be thinking about it. Totally. Nobody really wants that, you know, I've had. Groomed best men do it two different ways where they spoke as they were representing the bride and the groom. And then I remember last year I had one at the Seattle tennis club and the best man spoke to as he was representing all of the groomsmen. And I really liked that. So he actually had his written, then when they all got together, he asked if they wanted to add it. And he put in a few other things that people were in there and they didn't, they weren't all like best friends or anything like that. But. I kinda liked that. That was a cool way of, of thinking about yourself. Or your job. I think that's good as opposed to having 14 people toast. I think, yeah. I definitely think that you could have a couple of people represent. That group didn't have 30 seconds for me. And that's the thing too, is you go, Oh, well, everyone's only going to talk for like, you know, whatever. Well then it's either going to be too short. There's not going to matter. Right? Like Irene said to you, it needs to be a little bit of time. But also did you afford your five? Second toast is like a three-minute thing. By the time they get, you know, you announced them, they get up, they do it. So it does add all that time up. Right. If you're trying to, you. If you are trying to plan everything and figure out your timeline, Oh, we're only going to have, everyone's only going to do well. It's not really a five minute toast. It's like five minutes and then 45 seconds on the other side, getting people up there and getting it all squared away. So yeah. Um, anything else before we go? I know there's, I mean, obviously tons of stuff that we can get into, but any, any huge glaring errors that I've left in, in the, in the holes right now. I took some notes here real quick, just to stuff. Um, I think we could do a whole podcast about Epic notes or Epic toasts. I'm sorry. And ones that are over the top. Like I was talking about the dad being the James Bond, but also. If you're in your toast going to be, uh, making some pop references. Like I had one last year where, where they referenced the groom's supposedly favorite song from the, from the 80s or whatever. Maybe give me a heads up on that because I would've been happy to have played a clip on it. And, and, you know, I can, I'm quick on them. On on pulling up a song, but I can't do it as you're giving the toast. But I had one, a couple of years ago where they talked about how many times you say watch top gun. And, you know, I played five seconds of, of, you know, dangerous home. So. Something like that would be, you know, would add to it. And then it elevates you as the toaster, because it looks like you put a lot of effort into it and stuff yet it took us five seconds to, to figure that out. Um, Oh, the other thing, and I, and I think. This is something that, that, that. 60% of the people forget. You're giving a toast. So a bring a glass. And B actually say toast at the end. To toast the couple. Um, I can't tell you how many times I've reminded people of that. If I can, and I can usually do it for the first few, but you know, the, once you get the fourth or fifth or six people person, they'll forget. And then. Um, and then when they're done there, There's no to the bride and groom or graze your glass or anything like that. So just remember that. That is kind of things you want to include. My last thing is smile. Like I know that's hard. But try once in awhile to look up and look pleasant during your toast. It's so hard. It's so hard. I just, in my head, while we're talking about all this and cell phones and, you know, people, Holy things, I just, in my head, I see these like grand toast photos. They can just be so good and just can capture all of that. You know, every, all of the emotions in one frame. I mean, that's why the photographers are so good. And yeah, just trying to. To be happy. And if you are a stressful, you know, don't have too much to drink or whatever, just try to be present for the couple. And they really want you to be there. And. Yeah, they're asking you to do it for a reason. Alan, what about you? Um, my last issue is about parents. Sometimes I've seen, uh, challenging dynamics that couples have about. Uh, wanting to invite their parents, but they don't want their parents to feel obligated to toast. And, uh, at least once a year, I go up to somebody. Uh, at dinner in, in order to brief them and I'm like, Oh, I'm here to talk about your toes. What. I'm giving a toast. And I just, I really, I feel for that parent, I don't think they are then put in a position to succeed. Again, I'll repeat that observation from before. If a parent doesn't want to speak, don't force them to, but I think most parents should at least be given that opportunity. Um, and then from a staging. Photographic documentation, documentary standpoint. I think both parents should come up. Even if just one person is giving the toast. And one speaking that photo of both of you and the couple, I think. It is a, is a good memento of that moment. I agree. Yeah, the parents I know. And this is probably to seven to get into, I mean, I know there's dynamics asking the parents if the couple is paying for their wedding, you know? And so there's always some tricky things, but I do think it's, it's appropriate to at least. Maybe they don't need 10 minutes, but maybe, you know, they still. They're still your parents, even if, cause I've had that dynamic where they're like, well, we're paying for everything. Like we're going to do the big toast and I definitely understand, but I do think give your parents the option to, to say something, even if you feel like, you know, you're, you're established on your own. Does that make sense? Is that, have you guys I'm sure have like, had that question before I've seen that dynamic. Yeah, I think it just depends on the, what you want. I mean, Aye. You know, that's kind of brings up an interesting point. What were you? I don't think one. Toast should affect necessarily affect another. If that, if the parents want to talk for five, I mean maybe from a time sort of frame, if you're worried about that, but. You, there's no reason that that if the couples or the parents or the parents are gonna talk forever, they want, you know, am I not going to. Um, I was just gonna say, I'm not going to turn off the microphone, but if you want a really quick story, I will tell you about turning off the microphone on the father of the, of the bride. Okay. I did a wedding. Um, A couple of years ago up at new castle and, um, uh, they were all a native Mandarin speakers. And I'm the father of the groom gets up and speaks and gives a long. A toast and there was not a bit of an emotion. Four for 20 minutes. There was no laughter. There was no smiling and I'm not talking to just him, but anybody in the whole room. He just gave a very long speech. And then he finishes and they give the microphone to the father of the bride. And she gets up and the first thing out of his mouth, he has the room, his stitches. I find out later it was because he was insulting the grip. And which of course. In, in Chinese culture is, is especially bad. Um, and then he proceeded to do that for another 35 minutes. And by this time we are pushing against the sunset, the golden hour at new castle, which of course was the reason we were all there. And he's going on and on and on. And I'm, my eyes are on the grill, the grill, and I'm waiting for him to give me the signal. And finally the F. Brother goes up and ties to physically take the microphone from is from the, from the dad. Then the groom gives me the signal. I cut it. He never stops talking. It's like this guy waited his entire life for somebody to give him a microphone. And he wasn't gonna stop. And he kept talking. If you have talking and he spoke for so long, we then said, we're going to go, do you know? Cause the wedding coordinator is freaking out because of sunset. I can see it coming in through the windows. And so everybody gets up, goes outside to do the T to do sunset pictures. And no one leaves. Every single person comes back in and we proceeded to do another 30 minutes of toast. Bye. Uh, the wedding party and the bride and groom. The dad taught the two dads were we're an hour and 15 minutes. Wow. 45 and 30. That was crazy. It was. Crazy terrible all at once. Yeah. No. And I didn't understand a single word. Uh, well, that's good. And died. Any other thoughts? We good. Alan has given me the thumbs up. Thank you guys all so much again, I know this is like, you know, probably part one again. I've stuffed down the line, but I really appreciate it. And I think this'll be a fun little Mmm. You know, not to, COVID the kind of good. Uh, discussion for hopefully the future when people are looking back and planning their wedding in the future.

Episode 24 - Making a Plan for Those “2021 Weddings”

Well, this actually turned out really good. Timing wise we'll get is as well as it can. Uh, Elisabeth and I had talked, uh, probably a month ago about having her come on, you know, whether we want to do, we want to do a best meet weddings. Podcasts. And you had some COVID policies and ideas and things as a wedding planner, you know, obviously that you're talking with your couples about and you know, other vendors and whatnot. And on Friday. So this is Monday on Friday. I got an email from my bride, from our wedding last weekend and she, uh, was COVID positive and had to either email. I assume, you know, family and friends, I don't know all the details, you know, if they had to let the hotel know with all these things, but, you know, she let me know and I had to go get a COVID test. I've never done that, you know, was, um, You know, worried. I mean, I felt like I had been through, you know, it was Friday morning. The wedding had been last Saturday day. You know, but I felt okay about it. I'd been working from home all week, but anyway, so this is really timely still, you know? Cause [unknown]. The podcast. W, you know, we try to do some COVID and not, we just did our wedding timeline. Chat, but obviously this is still going to be a thing going into next year, kind of talking about, um, You know, not like responsibilities, but like, you know, where there's some good practices and things. And so I don't want to put Elisabeth on the spot today too much with like, you know, legal advice, right. We're not trying to give any sort of like definite, um, you know, this is what the, you know, you need to be doing or whatever. But I think we just want to talk about some, some good practices and things that you're talking. You know, with your couples about, you know, as they prepare for, you know, Weddings here into next summer where this is still very much more than to be on top of mind. So thank you for coming on. That was a really long intro. I'm sorry. Uh, please introduce yourself and tell us who you are. Sure. No. And thank you so much for having me here read. I mean, I know we chat about this over email, but I'm really glad that things worked out for you. I know how scary that is. You're not the only vendor I've heard this year, who has been in that situation. I'm. That's not the only couple I've heard who's been in that situation. So I'm glad that you're healthy. Um, as far as who I am, my name's Elisabeth Kramer and I am a day of wedding coordinator based in Portland, Oregon. Um, I, before COVID during COVID, um, my whole work is to really tear down the wedding industrial complex. That's kind of what I talk about. So the way that I do that, um, I do a lot of writing. I do a lot of podcasts on my own show. Um, I hosted an event for vendors. Um, and then I talk, I talk to couples, both couples who are my clients who might coordinate for, um, and also just couples out of the world who are trying to make sense of what this looks like right now. Um, I mean, wedding planning has never been easy, so why not add a global pandemic? Right. Um, that's who I am and I'm glad to be here. Awesome. Yeah. I mean it, and it's tough because it's something that everyone is, is dealing with. Right. And there there's obviously there's different mentalities behind it and, you know, trying to. To stretch things out to get, you know, the tippy top of what's being allowed. And what's not, I think that the focus on our podcast, my podcast specifically here has been. You know, to focus on what you can do safely as a couple planning the wedding and not lamenting on what you can't do. A and we've had certainly a great discussions with, um, you know, Jenny GG and Ann Marie. We have the grieving, your wedding. Uh, podcasts. We did a couple of weeks ago talking about dealing with some, um, Feelings of sorrow and sadness. Either having to cancel or postpone or, well, that feels cause there's a lot of stuff. So, I guess first off, you know, w where do you, where are you out on all this right now? You know, we're beginning of November and how's it going for you? Oh boy. Million-dollar question. Right. Well, I mean, at first I want to acknowledge him so glad to hear about, um, kind of grieving your wedding. I mean, that's something that I really believe in the share. Um, I have a article on my website. That's all about, you know, it's okay. If you feel sad about your wedding and that article is really addressed a couples, um, and it's addressed. Um, to couples because I was hearing a lot of this. I wrote it, I think, in the spring. So. 5 million years ago and pandemic time. But, um, in the spring, because I was hearing a lot from my clients and just from people I encounter the world planning, weddings. Um, just, they were feeling in certain negative emotion, usually directed at themselves. Um, about their wedding. Um, and I just really think that it's such a challenging thing and you always end this line of work. I think you always have to start from a place of empathy. Um, and that also goes a lot for vendors to, so as far as where I'm at. Um, so I've done three weddings this year, um, to give kind of a metric. My goal was 20. I did 18 last year. So three is a very small season for me. Um, I did two in February. Um, so that was before COVID came to my part of the world. Um, I actually did a wedding on leap day, which the first case of COVID was reported in Oregon on the 28th of February. So it was all right then. And I have this kind of growth post. Now in hindsight, on my website about, I wrote about. Going to a wedding where there's this thing called COVID and people were talking about it, but what is it? Why are we scared? Um, well that. That's a little, uh, kind of makes you grimace that eight, nine months later. But, uh, so I did two in February and then I, um, my season for 2020 throughout the summer, um, canceled or rescheduled for very good reasons. Um, I would say the majority of my couples did what a lot of couples are doing, which they got married this year. So they had a wedding. Um, the wedding was much different than they anticipated. And when I say different, it usually means a much smaller guest count. Um, and usually not at the venue or venues, they originally booked, um, with the goal of getting legally married, um, and then often doing some type of celebration. Presumably next year in 2021. Um, and then I had, um, I had quite a few couples cancels, so they're making completely different plans. And then I had this one, couple who wanted to, you know, no matter what they were going to get married in October and they decided that they wanted to stick. With a very reduced plan. Um, for what they originally had. So they're originally guest count was about 80 to 100 people. Um, and eventually the wedding was tailored. Um, Kind of a metric for me. And I think a lot of vendors or relate to this as, um, I'm not going to break the law. So my, my kind of metric has been is the wedding is the event. Abide by County and state regulations. Um, so this wedding did that. We had a very intense. Um, COVID protocol in place, which I'm happy to get into. Um, and then ended up being, I think at last count was 43 people in queen vendors. Um, you know, mass social distancing, um, every, every safety protocol you can think about. Um, and I have to admit, I left that wedding with a very different impression that I thought I would have, which I'm happy to talk about more, but. Kind of give you the snapshot of my year three weddings two in February, one in October. Uh, my season now starts again. In June of 2021. So who knows where we'll be at, by that time? Well, I think it's so important to you to develop, you know, like you say, a COVID policy, you know, with, with, um, you know, hopefully you're working with a planner, but otherwise, you know, if you're planning to get married because. Yeah, I do think there's still this, this sense that, um, you know, 20, 21 is going to feel a lot more normal than it really is. I don't. Mmm. No, no. If that's the case, right. You know, we have, um, my wife's friends just got engaged and they're trying to debate, you know, do we, do we try to do something this next summer? Do we winning? I think a lot of people aren't. And I don't, I don't know what next summer's going to look like and nobody does. Right. And nobody does, but this idea that we're going to have 300 people and that's going to be no holds bar. It's not probably where we're going to be. Right. Is that, is that what you're thinking too? Yeah, I mean, It's so hard. It doesn't ever think they'll load it now. Like these things were used to talk about, but now it's like, everything feels like a loaded. I mean, obviously this is my personal opinion, but, um, I agree with you. I 100% agree with you. I think that, um, you know, I can't speak to where we'll be at as far as vaccine, as far as caseload, as far as death rate. Man. If I knew that information, I would share it loud and proud, but I don't know. Um, what I do know is kind of two things. One. I do think just looking at how, how, um, the I'm not going to say slow, cause I think slow is a negative word, but just the pace that a lot of the phase rollout has been particularly. So I'm an Oregon. I know Breger based in Washington. Um, you know, my County in particular Multnomah County has been in phase one. For months, I mean the whole summer. And, um, to give a sense, I mean, phase one, Um, That the legal ease around this is quite blurry, but in Oregon, the cause there's a difference between social get together and a gathering. So get together has a smaller guest count. Like 10 people is kind of, it varies. I mean it varies week to week. Um, but 10 people and then, um, uh, gathering, uh, is often what a venue is using right now. And that, that tends to be where weddings full, um, And that is 50 people indoors on a hundred people outdoors in Oregon. Last, last I looked, um, and again, that's very, very much, this is actually more open than like Washington where resections are. Are straight up, not allowed. I mean, last I heard, um, You've opened that now. Oh, So open now. Yeah. As of now, it's. I think they just extended. It was 10 o'clock and then now it's a little extended beyond. Um, yeah. With 50 people or less, but yeah, right. To my point, right. I mean, it's, it's like this moving thing, which I mean, makes sense. Right? The virus is changing. People's relationships changing where we've hit it. We're hitting record numbers right now. I mean, there's good reasons why this stuff isn't clean. Um, but I think the bigger thing I've noticed, and I was just writing about this last week is no matter where we're at with COVID and I don't mean to discount that. I mean, I mean, obviously it's huge. I don't want to just kind of, but I think more than anything, attitudes have changed. Um, and when I say that, I mean both for vendors, but I really mean for a couples. I mean, I've had a lot of conversations with couples this year, but they've been in the vein of. Our COVID wedding. So I'm using that just for shorthand of our wedding. That happened the way we adapted for Kobe. We actually really liked it. And I think that, yeah, I say that laughing because I've noticed initially what happens is a lot of couples. They're Facebook has horrible dilemma, and I don't want to discount at all the fact that a lot of people are having to choose their most precious, loved ones, not being able to be there. Thousands of dollars. You know, not being able to make good on, I mean, these are huge problems, but couples are, are eventually coming to a plan that a lot of people would think are as their last resort. So these are small weddings is, or what are often called micro weddings. I just liked the word wedding because the wedding is a wedding. It was a wedding. But, you know, it was probably 10 people, maybe fewer I'm usually all outdoors. And people are really liking them. Um, and I, I really want to point that out and I know it can seem counterintuitive coming from a wedding planner where I make my money booking weddings if somewhere in the neighborhood of a hundred to 200 guests. Um, but I'm mainly in this work because I believe in joy and I believe in witnessing joy. And that was kind of the big takeaway I took from that wedding I worked in October was. This felt like a wedding that was trying to happen in a time that no longer exists. And we may very well get back to that time. I mean, I don't know about you read, I love a party. I very much want to go back to a world where we can all dance to Whitney Houston. And hug our friends and family. I mean, Of course, I think we all want to get there. Right. Um, we're not there right now. And so when I went to that wedding, I think that was my big impression of just like, this is 40 people sitting in a room and, you know, we're all kind of freaked out because none of us have sat in a room with 40 people in months. Um, and you know, where are we? Six feet apart? Where did we have all the windows open? So it was airflow. Did people wear masks when they weren't eating and drinking? Yes. That I mean, that was baseline because this is a real virus. This virus kills people. Uh, we were also all sitting in there and feeling kind of awkward and, you know, just to speak for them. The couple's not on this call. But the feeling that I got was I didn't see that moment of joy, that access point that I look for in all of my couples of this kind of that rack share that enjoyment, that pure joy that I do my work for. I didn't see that happen until everyone left until they were with their core 10 to 15 people at the end of the night that I don't know what their personal rules were, but they were. They were a bubble in some capacity. You know, I'm I'm again, I'm not sure what their roles were for themselves, but this was a group that I felt comfortable touching, felt comfortable being on mass around each other had been together for awhile. Um, that's when I saw the fun happen. And you know, I don't say that to be prescriptive. I don't say that to make couples feel bad if you, if you're playing by the law, you know, if you're following the law. You're doing your best to be safe. I'm not going to tell you right or wrong. I'm just going to point out that I think a lot of people are striving to make joy happen under very intense circumstances. Then you've got to kind of push yourself here to think about. Okay. This might not look like. A wedding when we think about couple. You know, capital w a wedding, but it can still be a wedding because we can still access joy. It might just be different than how we thought we were going to do it. So I hope that makes sense. No, and I think that's a good point. And, and it's, it's so it's so tough because like you said, you know, uh, these micro weddings things, we've done episodes talking all about this. Timelines for micro weddings and how they get the best photography. You can go back in the past episodes here. But, um, I, the wedding I just had on Saturday, and I'll be curious, your thoughts on this. I don't want to save the DJ's name cause I don't want to speak for them, but we were having, I was setting up for a live stream and we were having a discussion. And it's been, it's been my belief for months now. Did, uh, the microwave deans now that people, and I want to phrase this as positively as possible. I think the, you know, the, the micro weddings and people are doing now, they are in their head thinking that this is a placeholder, uh, best we can do right now. We're going to have the big thing next year. And it's been my belief and I don't think a lot of other vendors want to hear it or, or couples, but, uh, I think either people are going to be between this year and next year decide that that did suffice, whatever they needed or that they're just kind of over the planning day did it, but it could be, you know, cause I'm trying to spin it. It could be positive, right. It could be. Hey, the thing that we did that we thought was going to kind of stake and it was going to be 20 people and it was lame and do it. That ended up being what we needed it to be. Right. Or they're just going to say F it, I'm totally done planning. I'm burned out. So where do you, where do you fall on that? What do you think? Oh, man. Got it. It's just, it tears me up too, because from the, from, you know, Beth Kramer person in the world who does this work because she wants couples to have joy, start America to access, you know, have this wonderful day. Um, I'm right there with you. It's like, you know, a couple, if, if you did your thing in 2020 or into 2021, and, you know, if, if it did feel like kind of plan B or plan C or is now happens, plan D right. Or plan Z a loss. Um, but you, you do that and you actually have a wonderful time. And that is your wedding. Great. You had a wedding and you started a marriage. I'm a big believer of that. The wedding is important that as a beautiful day, but what you're starting is ideally a lifetime, right? I mean, that's a marriage is the thing that you are trying to give birth to. Um, I mean, I just had a couple today, then I'm working with next July. Very similar. They had, um, A small, can't remember the exact guest count, but 10 or 15 people this past summer. Um, and they're already kind of floating the idea of the thing. We pushed everything to July, 2021, um, for kind of the bigger party element. And they're already kind of like, you know, What kind of did the thing. And we're kind of happy with it. And like you said, Rita, I mean, there is a. There is a point where, I mean, my husband and I got married last year in November. In hindsight, it's like, Oh, how did that happen? Um, but you know, I mean, I think about us and it's like, gosh, I can understand why couples feel this way, because if we had. Had to do what a lot of couples are doing this year. I mean, what do we really want to keep pushing us into 2021, 2022? I mean, It'd be so hard. It's just so much emotional labor. I mean, I know it's complicated because you could be losing money as a couple. You will be losing money as a couple, but, um, yeah, I could see white couples want to cut their losses because they had their day. Um, and I, I, before of course that's all couple facing, but I really want to talk about the vendor part of this too, because the vendors who are listening to this. That man. I'm so sorry. You know, I mean, I'm looking at my revenue. I'm looking at my paychecks this year. I'm making half of what I made last year. And most of that is from the government. So, you know, and when I say that I made on unemployment and I just, I want that at a real stark reality, that so many of us are facing. Um, I host this event. We're going to do our next one on December 12th. So this year that's called alternate on the reason we started, it was just to get vendors together who feel like I do as far as like, I love what I do, but I hate a lot about my industry and I hate the racism. I hate the sexism. I hate the fatphobia. I hate all that. Um, so I want to talk to other people who feel like I do who do this work and want to change the industry. Um, and so we've hosted a couple of days and then I got the committee together this summer and I was like, what the hell do we do now? You know, do we, do we do one? Is that weird? And where we landed was we just want to get vendors together to make vendors less sad, because there's just so much sadness and grief. And I know so many people who are having to leave the industry out of duress, you know, just because they can't pay their bills, you know, and that's because they're not good at their job. Not because they're not pivoting, not because they're not trying. It's just, you know, it's blood from a stone right now. For very good reason. Um, and I don't say that to guilt trip couples. I just, I want to acknowledge that, you know, Vendors. I hear you. And I right there with you and you know, I don't have an answer. I don't have a silver bullet. I don't have a way to pivot your pivot, your company and the profitability in 2020. Um, but I can't be your friend and I can talk to you about these ups and these downs. So, um, as far as to answer your original question, I've read. I mean, yeah, I think you're right. I mean, I think that we're going to see a lot of that next year and I don't know about you. I, I perpetually I'm kicking the, can. So I made it right now. I'm like, okay, maybe through the election, let's do Thanksgiving. Okay. Next Christmas for me, you know, or whatever holiday may or may not celebrate in December. Um, okay. And then we'll get to 2021. Um, and then I'll figure out what my 14 weddings look like for next year, um, which feels super wishy washy and kills my planner heart, but I don't know a better way to make it through it right now. No. Absolutely. And that was kind of my thing. And when all this started back in, you know, March, April, I'm. Cause we had, you know, 40 whatever on the books. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to wake up one day and there's going to be a hundred emails right. In my inbox. And I'm going to be like, you know, what the, what do I do here? But it has really been kicking the can lid skin. Grew the April ones. Okay. Now we're kind of through that. Okay. Let's see what June feels like. Okay. Now, And I really kind of have this fear. I think I've talked to him on the podcast, but a lot of my November weddings now that we're at. Were those may weddings that moved to November. And they really did think we are going to be able to, you know, we're not going to be. We're going to do what we wanted to do, where the opposite was by September. And October's had kind of rationalized, okay. We're probably going to have to do something smaller. My November ones, I don't think ever thought in a million years, Hey, this is going to be, this is. You know, going to be nine, 10 months at this point, like, we're definitely going to have this other control and they are now postponed, but I, you know, as we approach November, I really thought like, I, again, I'm going to wake up one day, I'm going to have 10 emails from all the bloody things and whatever it is, it's kind of one after another, after the other, but it's never been that overwhelming thing, but it has just been like this progressive. It's like I had waves a lot this year. I mean, You know, for me, it was like pretty much every 60 days. And I would say, as we kind of got closer to like July and August weddings this year, it was more rapid because. I mean couples or people. Right. I mean, they were reading the news, they were reading the headlines and we were getting good at pandemic, figuring out what this looks like, you know? Um, but yeah, I mean, for me, my, my hardest, like this. I feel like all of it is made up, but I made up this like one thing that it's like I hold onto and kind of my Latin of the storm is like 60 days. It was kind of my hard marker for go no-go. Um, and I say, that's a couples just because it's like, okay. 60 days out from any events, from a wedding, you have enough time that we can kind of figure out what the next plan is. Um, but it's also close enough, but maybe we'll have a better idea. I mean, I think the 60 days when I used to say that in March or April felt like a lot of time or, you know, it felt like, Oh, of course we'll know now of course in 60 days, things can change three different ways every week. Um, so it's not as good as rural as I would like, but it is still kind of the one I point to. Um, and I, I mean, that's kinda my, my benchmark right now, right. I mean, I think a lot's going to change again in January, of course, with the inauguration, like who knows? Right? I mean, if we have a federal policy. In this country against events. That's going to be its own thing. Right? I mean, that's that. We'll have pros. I don't have comms, but that'll be something. Um, if we don't, it'll continue to be stayed in County. Um, and kind of my touch point is. Does it break the law? Like I said, I mean, I hate to be so weird about that, but I've definitely had a couple that I had to break up with this year who. The wedding that they were planning for this past October for October 20, 20. It was not legal in the sense that it broke County and state regulations. And, you know, the way that I had that conversation was just, I'm not the planner to serve you anymore. You know, I, I'm not going to tell you this is right or wrong. I'm not going to have a moral judgment on. You know, is this a safe thing to do? It's just, if it's not legal, I don't, I'm not going to participate in it. You know, and I wish you the best. Um, but you know, I think for a lot of couples, that's, that's, it's not that black and white, right. I mean, it's much more just trying to figure out, well, how do we do this thing that we really want to do? And still be healthy and safe. And I guess I would just challenge couples to, you know, be honest that. You know, just have conversations with your partner. You know, why are we doing this? Like in so many ways, I feel that COVID has done to the wedding of the straight, what I wanted to do the wedding industry. It's encourage couples to have these conversations with themselves about what are our priorities here before we just hop on the carousel of wedding planning, which is super easy to do. I say, as a wedding planner and someone who just planned her own wedding last year, um, let's sit down. Let's think about how do we want to feel like beyond what we want to spend or how many people we want to have there, where we want to have it. When we want to have it, you know, it's just, why are we doing this thing? Why are we birthing this marriage? Um, and that's, I think is the best advice for couples. You know, for vendors, I feel like we have a heart, even if we have a hard road to hoe to Oh, just because how do you make money and a model that has completely upended. I'll be honestly, I don't know. I don't know. And I'm continuing to figure it out so completely off tangent from where you're talking about, but I think it's all part of the same. Yeah, it's I want to get it. Well, First off. To echo your point about sitting down to focus on what's important. I do think, and I've said this before on all the podcasts I do that. Um, it really did, like, you know, last summer before last, and it really did feel like we had a lot of our weddings are 10 hour days either. This isn't normal. You will bug. And it really felt like you get to, you know, our eight or nine and these couples were done and they were tired and they didn't want to deal, you know? And like we're talking, Hey, do you want to go deep, beautiful sunset photos. We have this guy we're done, we're totally down. We're totally done. And you know, and, and obviously it's to each couple to drive their day, but it seemed to me like, you know, couples are almost just tired going into the day, right there. They're overwhelmed, they're burdened. And then they go through all this and then it's 10 hours and receive their body. And so that was my hope to, like you said that maybe this would force people, you know, w with a lot of things are taken away or whatever, you know, what is important for us to still try to do right. And in like our, um, the, the last dream I just did on Saturday, they did a really small, you know, ceremony. And then I think there was 10 people there. And then there was 35 40 people watching online. But they used it. I thought the efficient did a great job of retelling. The couple of story really. But it was, it just. Interesting gave context to everything really told their story. And really, I thought it was a really nice for me just being hired the live stream. You know, like a twenty-five minute ceremony. I thought that he was the best use of that time that they can have to be like, okay, this is our day. This is how we met. Um, whatever. Uh, and so, but I want to focus here now kind of moving forward. I got it here. With your COVID policy. And talking with couples. And I will say we're in the process of booking the wedding for next August. Um, I send them some stuff today and they had asked me, Hey, you know, what is your COVID cancellation policy? This is slightly different than your COVID, but, um, it was interesting to me because, and I've just kind of flat out, told him back. I said, uh, there will be no cancellations now. I mean, we, we know that COVID is a thing. Uh, if we need to, if we need to postpone, if we need to downsize, if we need to reduce coverage, if we need to either shift whatever, but there is no cancellation policy. I we're past all that now. Right. And I guess. Maybe I'll get your feedback on that before we get into this. But I mean, I really do feel like this whole bit when it was March, April, may all this, Hey, what are we going to do? And do we. Uh, the, the, um, forest measure and all this stuff, I'm like, we're all kind of done with that now. Like everybody. Became lawyers for a hot second and March. Yeah, but like everybody knows it's a thing now. Right. And if we only had one, um, of all the weddings we've moved this year, Like I said it was like 35, 40 weddings. I only had one. Um, it wasn't hostile, but I only have one. Upset. Interaction with a couple. And it was because they just wanted to find out, cancel. And I said, I totally understand that. I absolutely respect that. Um, but that is a choice now you're making versus downsizing and postpone the rescheduling lane, kicking the can, whatever you want to do, you deciding to cancel. That is a personal decision that's outside of everything else. So, I guess first off as a roundabout, and then we'll, we'll finally get to this step that we've mentioned. What do you think about that? That this whole like Kobe cancellation thing now that we know it's a thing. Oh, you know, I think I have two thoughts going in my mind, the first one, and I recommend this article to vendors and to couples. Um, and I'll share it with you read so you can include it wherever you'd like, but there's a planner based in Seattle, Cindy Savage. Of ILS traveled and she has a wonderful article that I've referenced a lot where she talks about, you know, I mean, I'm going to not do justice to her thesis, but the, just, I took from it. Couples, this is why you don't get refunds. And you know, that sounds really harsh, but the thought there is an, I think it's very easy to forget about is that this is the money that vendor's live on. You know, I mean, this isn't. Like the way that I structure my contract. And, um, before COVID it was 50% payment, you know, deposit non-refundable than 50% balance due two weeks before the wedding. I've since changed that two thirds, just to try and space things out. But, you know, the language of my contracts, the same that any money somebody gives me is nonrefundable. And again, that seems really harsh. Like, well, gosh, I mean, never. Um, and I'll talk about that. No, not never. I've definitely given refunds, but the reason that it is that way. Is because, you know, this is my full-time job and this is the money that I use. This is my paycheck, right. That when that money comes in, this is how I both pay for my business expenses. And also how I have a paycheck that could take home to my husband and myself. Um, so if it's refundable, I have spent that money on rent. I spent it on food. I spent it on our internet bill. Um, I don't just hold it. I'm not a big enough entity that I can just have this money kind of sitting until I'm done with your wedding. Um, of course that would be ideal, right. Because then I would have just. Tons and tons of Scrooge McDuck money, you know, just sitting in an account somewhere, but I can't do that. I mean, this is my full-time work. Um, different vendors do it different ways. I mean, particularly now a lot of vendors are having jobs outside of the wedding industry. And so they're going to structure their business models differently. Um, you know, and as far as this question of like, What do I think individual vendors should do as far as cancellations? I mean, I think you make a great point rate of. You know, we all do have the information right in front of us. It's like, COVID is a thing. Uh, when it will be over, who knows? Um, so, you know, we all need to go into it with our eyes wide open, I will say. And I hope this doesn't come off as patronizing. I don't think couples know what they don't know. And so I think as a vendor, as much as it puts the burden at your door to have to. Mention the potentially awkward thing potentially mentioned the thing that could lose the client, lose the booking. Um, I think you have to be a front, you know, and I have varying degrees of success myself with this, you know, I mean the last thing you want to talk to a new couple on the phone. Is, Hey, so I know you really liked me. I know you're about to Venmo me half. Um, but just so you know, I won't give it back. Right. Like it's a super awkward thing to say. Um, and you know, obviously you wouldn't say it that way, but I think as a vendor, you do have to try and empower a couple, you know, and try and be clear. And I have had really good responses from people like you were saying, read of just like, if you put it in the terms of like, you know, this. This is the money that I live on. Does this is the money I used to pay my bills. This isn't money that I'm just. I don't know, spending frivolously and, you know, rubbing in your face. I mean, this is money that I need to go to the grocery store tomorrow. People, I think often are coming from a place of empathy with that. Um, the wedding industry is very hard though in that sense, because I find that vendors, um, We're all very siloed because we all work at our dining room tables or in our offices. I mean, w we don't work for big companies usually. And so, because of that, we're often not very protected. Um, and you know, w we don't have unions. We don't have, you know, many of us don't have easy access to insurance or retirement plans. Um, and so we can feel very, I think, you know, just kind of on our back heels when couples want to have these conversations with us, but I think it's important to remember and remind people that like, So this is my job. This isn't just a hobby. Um, and then couples, I mean, I know, and maybe I send my home talking out of both sides of my mouth, but couples. I know that can be hard to come from that place. Right. Because I don't know about you, but I don't think anybody's job feels secure right now. So maybe you're feeling like, wow, you know, I don't really want to go pay Beth $1,800. That's a lot of money to me and something happened and I want my money back for the services that she did or didn't render. I think as much as possible. You need to remember that before making this investment and couples that were planning early in the pandemic. I know that was difficult. Like we didn't think that would be a problem. So. That's its own gray area, but for couples who are actively planning now who perhaps got engaged during the pandemic, or like really thinking like we're planning with this mindset of COVID as a reality, now it is a reality that could go on for much longer than we anticipate. It is something I need to talk about. Is this a, is this a gamble that we're willing to do? You know, the $34,000, that's the average cost of a wedding in America? Is that an amount of money? We feel comfortable investing, knowing that we likely will not get any of it back. If things continue to go the way that. They're going. And if the answer understandably is no. Then you need to spend less money because it's going to, you're just going to save yourself a lot of heartache. And a lot of really hard emails and a lot of kind of making people who are just trying to do their job feel s****y. Um, if you, if you kind of have that conversation with yourself and, um, you know, I know I could just kind of goes back to that prioritization. Right. You know, why are we doing this? Why are we doing this right now? How do we want to feel if you, if you kind of start from that blueprint with you and your partner, I think you will save yourselves a lot of heartache. And I think you'll save the people that you're hiring a lot of heartache. Uh, it's not a COVID related, but I do remember. To your point about, you know, people paying their paychecks and things always remember, uh, it was right after I, cause I, I did my whole day job, you know, transitioning to full-time video. Uh, over about the course of nine, 10 months. And then I'll remember it was at first, you know, I had no money. Right. There was no paycheck. And I remember I had done a music video for a singer and cause I that's like the thing you do in your life up and start video. I was like all of these music videos, like I got these old, uh, you guys want to see like these old rat videos and I did. But I have this singer and it, we ended up just spending a tremendous amount of time. Like it was, it was just hours and hours and hours of editing and doing all this weird color effects and all this stuff. And then, um, you know, it got done and she said it was done. And I think it was like 1200 bucks or something like she, uh, which was like a ton of money, you know? Yeah. Zero. Yeah. And I said, okay. Here's the thing. And I remember when she goes well, Uh, I'm gonna need, uh, I need a paycheck or two. You're going to need to give me the time to get you the money to you. To pay this. And I remember, you know, they gave the writing in saying like, that is not my problem that you need. Like, this is my paycheck. And, you know, and I, I completely understand. Um, you know, it is, it's not an unsubstantial amount of money by you knew that this was coming right. And like you said, you know, with planning the way, like, you know, that these are the costs. And if you weren't ready for it, you know, you wouldn't go buy a car and finance it and then be like, why don't have the, you know, whatever money every month. Or I wouldn't buy a house or whatever. You know, we, we worked on this for three weeks. Like you knew there's no surprise here that you knew that this was coming. And so I just will always remember that. And, and I'm so protective of that now, because I was so like, mad about it, you know, I'd just be like, why would you like this is, you know, anyway, I'm just repeating myself now. No, that makes sense. And I would say, you know, so I think kind of distill kind of what you were saying redone and what I want. My mom, I word vomit. I was trying to say is, so vendors, the advice here is be really clear. You know, if you're not clear on your pitch, I understand that that can be uncomfortable, but be cleaner contract. Right. I mean, we're just as like in the beginning, when we all had pre pandemic contracts, You know, none of us know what forced majora was. Right. You know, I mean that, that time has passed. Unfortunately we'll never get that innocence back. So make sure you're clear right. In your contract, um, and couples read your contracts. You know, um, be clear about upcoming deadlines. You know, one of the things I do as a planner for my clients on the books, but the clients can very easily do for themselves. Um, is most often it's very clear when you owe people money. People are very good at telling you that. Um, make sure that you have those reminders on your calendar or your timeline or your, you know, your family calendar on the fridge, whatever you use time that I keep your life in order. Um, and set reminders a week, 30 days, 60 days out because often this is a negotiation, right? Okay. I see. We're going to, Oh, Beth, our next third installment. On March 1st of next year. Okay. I let's have a reminder, a trigger February 1st, because how are we feeling? W do I want to do this wedding? I mean, once we pair that money, we're not going to get it back. So we kinda knew we need to talk. And I know that can be hard because it's gonna, it's going to by necessity, jumpstart, a lot of these conversations for couples, you know, months before their wedding. It also is the best way to make sure that you aren't losing money unnecessarily. Like I just send a check into my a couple today. Um, cause I emailed my couples every month. Um, which is kind of a weird exercise right now, because we all are kind of like, Hey, see you in July. But I have a couple of their next, um, I think it's for their venue. They have a payment coming up at the end of end of December. And so I just said, Hey, just want to keep this on your radar. That money is nonrefundable. So if we need to change our plans or we feel like we're going to change our plans, or we're not sure what about changing plans? This is the time to start thinking about this. So we have lots of room and space because I have found them. Such generosity from venues than vendors this year to just go out of their way. Often when it means that they aren't going to make money or they might have to lay people off. To make accommodations for couples because assists so challenging. Um, that gets a lot easier when a couple can kind of come to a vendor or a venue and be like, we've had these conversations. This is kind of what we're thinking. You know, where are we at with this? Um, that I, and so again, I know I keep kind of going back and forth on like, you know, how conversations have conversations, but it's the best way I've found to navigate this. Um, give yourself lots of time so that it isn't, you know, the night before that, that payment's going to go on your credit card. And you're like, Oh my God. Um, I don't actually know if I want to have a 200 person wedding next July at this place, you know? Um, because my guess is you could talk to that venue where you can talk to your vendors, um, because you know, they, they want to make this work with you too. And I also want to stay healthy and safe. We all have the same goals. And I think we can move in that direction together. Yeah. Communication thing. And I've said that forever, that, you know, when everything started and then like, not so much now, but when it was, you know, all these rapidly. Things. You know, I emailed everybody and I talked to so many vendors and they're like, well, I'm kind of scared to do that. Or I'm scared. Kind of like, like they were afraid. That they would email the couple and tell them something to the couple didn't know already. Oh, it was a surprise. Cause she didn't hear. No big deal. It was. And then my knitted Amilla you need to have these conversations because then, like, for example, the one wedding that we had and it got, um, they were upset. I said, I don't know what you want me to tell you. Like, I have been here having these conversations do view. For months, you know, I mean, this is not a surprise. You knew that I was offering live streams. If we needed to do things. Reschedules. If we needed to do things or posting, I, you know, We know all these different things, but yeah, it's definitely the having the communication thing and not being afraid of what if I tell them something that they don't know already? Totally. No. And I mean, it's just, it is a constant challenge and empathy, right? I mean, I. I've mentioned a couple of couples this year. I mean, the couple that I, um, you know, that I broke up with because they're the, the wedding actually didn't abide by County and state laws, but then just recently I had to break up with a couple that, um, they're getting married, this coming January and, um, their wedding. I mean, this couple has gone above and beyond to make sure that their wedding is legal. Make sure their wedding is safe. But at the end of the day, I was just in a place where it's just on my spectrum of COVID safety, whatever words we're using now, it just, it was two in the red for me and my family. Um, the main thing they're being that they're gonna have, they're gonna meet the legal requirement and, um, the state and County for 50 people indoors. Um, but there's gonna be food and there's going to be actually no alcohol, but there's going to be drinking. Right. There's going to be beverages. Um, and I don't know about you. I haven't figured out a way to eat or drink with my mask on. So much as I would like to be, and it just was a place that I'm not at yet, but I don't feel comfortable yet. Um, being in a room with that many people with mass off, even if we're apart from each other. And even if there's good ventilation. Just it's a personal thing. And I don't say that to weigh judgment on anyone. It's very much my personal spectrum. Um, and so what did I do there? I mean, if I had funded 100% by what my contract, then I could've just walked away. You know, I mean, that's very clear in my contract that the money that they pay me, the half deposit they'd pay me since they were a couple that hired me in January of 2020. So before, before COVID came to our part of the world, Um, I could have walked away, but that was then to feel in line with my values. So, what I did was I found a planner who that does fall within her spectrum of safety. Um, I sent her all the collateral. I did an onboarding call with her, um, and I got her pretty much queued up and she agreed to take the wedding for the balance that was owed. And then I did decide, okay. You know what? I, I don't feel like I, I, as much as I need that money, as much as I would love not to claim unemployment this week, I'm going to give a couple half back of their deposit. Let's go. The total amount they paid me was $900. I gave them four 50 back. And that way they could pay this new planner, the four 50 that I'd given the Mac plus the 900 remainder, um, which is about, I think it's 1350, which for coordinators that's low, right? That's a low fee for a wedding. But this planner is because it's January, because she knows me because I had done a lot of the work. We made it work. Right. And that's the plan I proposed to the couple. Um, and you know, you send that email out. You're like, God, I, you know, that's a lot of work I want to move beyond. And this couple wrote me back and they weren't mad. They didn't threaten to Sue me like the other couple I broke up with. Um, so that was a win, but you know, they weren't happy. You know, they weren't pleased. Their email was very aloof by my judgment, very distant. And that hurts. Right. That just hurts because, you know, as a small business owner, everything that you've done. And how much you'd love that four 50 heading into the holidays. Um, but it's not about me, right? It's about their wedding. It's about the marriage. They're going to give birth to its, uh, its about. Me in relationship to them. And so I just had to come from as much as possible that place of empathy. And try and serve them while also abiding by my own values. And do my best and try and leave the campsite cleaner than I found it. But, uh, it's not easy. And I only share that example because I find sometimes in this mash of the world right now, it's helpful to have like tangible numbers. So hopefully someone listening to that, it's like, okay, I probably wouldn't have done it that way, Beth, but maybe I would've done it this way. And hopefully you can get value from that. Uh, so if a couple is to get to this. Uh, you know, actual reasons that I brought you up. But it's been it's, you know, this is. The vast, uh, fantastic. Yeah. If you are going to have a couple, they're wanting to get married next year. You know, whenever, uh, so you have on your, your website because of a wedding policy template. The COVID thing. Uh, it, what is the mentality behind that? And kind of walk me through that and what you're doing with your couples. Totally. So before it was a wedding planner, I was a journalist. So I only say that because one of the best ways I know how to communicate it to their writing. Um, despite this podcast where you're probably like, well, you talk a lot too. But, uh, I, uh, so I have all my resources that I use a wedding planner. I just make them freak. They are on my website, both as blog posts and then Google docs that people can download and edit and do what they will. Um, and so I'm always just publishing stuff that I think would be useful for couples out there. Um, and for vendors that actually a lot of my, I get a lot of emails from Hunter, so like, Oh, I used your card blank template and I'm like, m**********r. Um, so the COVID safety policy, um, the thought behind that was when I was working actively on that wedding. I did at the beginning of last month. Um, I mean, it just seemed like a thing we should have, you know, I mean, One of the funny things about working in the wedding industry is we don't actually have like a there's no OSHA, you know, I mean, we don't have like a board of like rules or regulations, which can be a beautiful thing, but it can also be a completely frightening thing when you're like, well, what do I do? You know? And so it just felt like as a, as a coordinator is kind of the conductor of this wedding, right? The project manager, this wedding. That I needed to put together a policy. That I could have really for myself and my sanity, but also for the couple, for any, um, to use a drug anywhere, but any communication they wanted to use for their, for their friends and family. Um, many of whom have the same questions that we all do right now. Like what are the rules? Should I wear a mask? All these things. Yes, you should wear a mask is always the answer, but, you know, Are we writing math? Um, and then also I wanted to have it for vendors to send it to them when I sent all my other stuff, my timeline and my FAQ and all that. Um, and so what you'll find on the website is just, I've just created a template. So the thought here is that a couple or, or vendor. Um, but probably a couple with sit down and just, you go through different sections of like you fill in what works for you. You know, and I tried to cover most of the things that are going to come up for you. So like, where are we at with your County and state? Um, what is our rules around food? You know, that's a big one. Are we doing open buffet? Are we doing Play-Doh? Plated. You're probably doing plated, but you know, let's talk about that. Um, hand sanitizer, social distancing. Are we going to have dancing? I mean, a lot of these things that are gonna come up. Um, I try to get them all in one place so that you and your partner, or if you're a coordinator or someone else. You know, who's a vendor using this. You can use this as a way to have those conversations, um, because you've taken nothing else from this conversation. It's that you gotta talk about this stuff. And that adds a lot of emotional. Labor. It adds a lot of time at adds. Just a lot of logistical work that, you know, weddings weren't easy on that front before they're correct before the pandemic, but it's just out of this whole other tier to it. So. Um, the goal is then you would create this template, you know, create a policy that you can share. You know, you can put it on your wedding website. If you have one, you can put in an email to vendors and print out to have on the day. Um, but just so it's there in black and white, this is, this is what we're doing. If you feel you need to justify, this is why we're doing it. Um, and it's all there for people to reference. And yeah, and this is great. So is the idea behind us. Having some self accountable. Accountability to where, like, you're actually having to think through some of this stuff too. Like maybe we haven't thought about that or we didn't think about excuse. It's going to tell you when you were talking about food. We have a wedding this year. And their dessert table was just these jars of cookies. Not a tongue to VC and Oh. Like, what do I do with my hands? I wouldn't probably do this anyway, the wedding cause I'm like kind of a germaphobe. Yeah. Like, especially with no tongs or napkins, like. Look, I'm just putting my hand in and went out. No, I have those thoughts all the time. Now, things I used to do before the pair debit that I'm like, what was I thinking? Um, but is it. It's it's to make people think about these things beforehand, right. And then give you that kind of a black and white thing delay. Cause that is the fear to then a lot of vendors. And like you said, if, if the, your couple is doing something and you didn't feel safe or someone's else didn't feel safe, you know, it's about the communication. Cause we've had in, in, in our big wedding group, um, a week or two ago a go, whether it be admins posted. This whole story that, you know, a photographer got totally blindsided and showed up and it was a hundred people and no mass and all these things. And, you know, we kind of, you don't laugh at that. You're like, that is terrifying if they, you know, If you, if you were a photographer in like, you know, let's say you, you are immunocompromised or you're taking care of a family member. You know, like my, my mom is extremely immunocompromised and she lives with my grandma. Who's 90 years old. And so I have to be like when the whole worry thing came down with Friday. Today, we were planning to see my mom's Sunday and had I not gotten that test back in time. You know, we could, we wouldn't have gone and we did, and it was safe. So, but, so the idea is it is not only holds the couple's accountable, but then it also presents it in a way that is easily digestible by family, friends, and vendors. Right. Definitely. Again, I think it's really interesting what the family part of this, because, you know, I not so much now, but I imagine it's still really top of mind for a couples is, you know, couples don't, I mean, it's kind of what you said earlier read about how, like, you know, vendors didn't want to kind of like, be like, so this COVID thing, right? Cause it's like, Oh God, I don't wanna mention it. Um, I hear that a lot from couples as far as like, Oh God, I don't like want to talk to my guests about it, you know? And it's like, well, I mean, Heytesbury chia. They're thinking about it, you know? And. How could they not be right? I mean, of course, I'm sure there's weddings out there where your guests aren't thinking about it and whatever they're on. I want that because that, uh, that type of, uh, Ignorance would be lovely. Um, uh, as we go into just, you. I'll go into the holiday season, but. You know, my guess is 99% of the people in your world are thinking about this and you are going to do them a favor as a couple. If you have rules. And I'll, and I know that sounds gross and nobody wants to be the task master. Um, but if, if you're going to do this, you know, and when I say this, we're talking about a wedding that probably has a guest kind of more than 10. Um, perhaps there's an indoor element, which of course is a huge thing with COVID right. If you're indoors, the risk goes up. Um, if you're, if you're going to do this. This comes with it right now. And I know that's a really hard reality. You're also going to save yourselves a lot of heartache. And if it's not about you, then you're definitely going to save people who love a lot of heartache. If you set some ground rules. Um, and your vendors are going to appreciate it too. And I know on the tier of people were caring about, you know, that's understandable, you probably care about your mom more than care about, you know, your coordinator. That seems right to me. But you're going to make it, you know, you're gonna make it easier for everybody and you're going to make it easier for yourself. Um, so yeah, you know, with the template, it is meant as a tool to talk about it, you know, and talk about it. And I think what would I want couples to know is. You know, if you do this and he sit down and you just your energy on this, it's just drained. You know, you sit down in your life. Lord. I don't know what we're planning, but I don't like it. It doesn't feel like us. Then you, then that leads to another conversation, which is, is the thing that we're trying to create. Is that what we want to do? You know, and I know in a perfect world and a world without COVID. You wouldn't have to have that conversation with yourself. Right. But I think there is an opportunity here to, okay. The cookie cutter, right. Whatever we thought we were going to do. That's not working for us. Right. It's it's draining our energy. We're fighting, you know, we're just stressed out or anxious. Or it goes to Austin. When we think about our own wedding. That was happening before COVID, but it's definitely happening more now. And my whole thing is don't do that to yourself. Don't do that to your partner. Don't do that to your love, you know? That doesn't have to come with wedding planning. And so that might turn into a conversation of, okay, what parts of this are giving us the most stress? How do we adapt to that? And at this point and went and planning and this part in the pandemic. We know a lot of those answers. Right? Okay. Well, the thought of being in a room with a bunch of people, I just like my, my chest tightens up. When I think of that. Okay. We, we know not to do that. Now we know we have some options. Man, the idea of being endorsed. I just, I'm just not there yet. Okay. We have options, you know, and I know that that can feel like, Oh my God, this is going to be like a three hour conversation. Then let's make it. Let's continue just to break it down. Let's tackle one piece today. Let's do baby steps. Um, and I definitely have had couples that have been like, Wow. Okay. All we want to do is get legally married. You know, we just, we want to get legally married and there's a lot of reasons for that. It's we want to, we want to have a marriage. Um, we want to be on each other's health insurance. We want to, God forbid someone gets sick. We want to be the first of kin, right? I mean, there's a lot of reasons. You that's, that's a very simple conversation. You can get a marriage license very easily in our part of the world. Still. But then there's a gradient from there. So you have options. It's not just dead end after dead end. But you, you've got to have the conversation to start and multiple conversations. Um, this is great. This is, this has been good. Thank you so much for kind of walking through some of this stuff. I know. Two, you wanted to talk about your new season of your podcast. Um, and that was kind of the original impetus was I think you had messaged me and said, Hey, could you ever run the spot? You know, where I could talk about my podcast? And I said, well, do you want another. Why don't you just come on and we can do a podcast and then you can be able to hear you. And then also just so generous. And I was like, well, that's awesome. I'd love that. So, uh, talk to talk to us about that too, before we go. Oh, well, thank you, Rita. I really appreciate that. I know this is always like the weird part of these things, cause you're like, hello. Let me tell you something that I want to promote. Um, the reason I think people will care about this who listened to this show. Um, particularly if you're a vendor. So I have this podcast that's called a tear down. Um, the reason I did it was because I kept meeting super cool people in the wedding industry. Um, and I wanted to talk to them. I wanted to talk to my friends and when I started off, I've been in business for years. Wedding planning. Um, I had a lot of trouble finding people that kinda I vibed with, you know, I mean, not to be cliquey about it, but like people who loved what I love, what we do. Right. Love couples, love, love, love, joy. Um, but, you know, I saw, I didn't like, like a lot of what I saw in weddings, you know, I saw a lot of the same stuff. I saw a lot of age-ism, you know, I saw a lot of like, just, if it was a straight couple, so much gender stuff, I mean, it's just, the list goes on and on all these nasty isms is kind of the way I sum it up. So it was, had a lot of trouble finding vendors who would like talk about this stuff openly. Um, and so that has influenced all of my work because I wanted just to create these gathering spaces where vendors could get together. Because like I said earlier, one of the hardest parts of our industry is we don't have any coworkers. You know, I mean, There's no water cooler where all the vendors get together and they get to talk about, you know, the thing on Saturday. Please pockets exist, but they're, you know, they're very disparate and different people are in different things. Um, so altered the event was one of them and then the tear down. Isn't that other one. So I interviewed vendors. Um, and then I end every season talking to a couple. So this season it's a three episode season. Um, and it's my first sponsored season were being sponsored by joy, which is a wedding app. That is actually a super cool wedding app that really walks the walk. If you haven't checked them out. Um, so I'm talking to two different vendors. Terica um, who, um, has been doing a lot around racial justice and the wedding industry this year. She has been for years, but particularly this year. Um, and then Jordan, Manny of all the days. Um, so Jordan, for those who aren't familiar with her work among many other things, she was behind the step-up pledge, which came about, um, earlier this year, which was calling upon big name, wedding media, and Martha Stewart weddings, the knot wedding wire. Um, to step up, to have more representation in their photos. So not just all CIS straight white couples, um, to actually show that lots of people get married. Why don't we see it in our pages? Um, so I'm talking to both of them, individual episodes and I'm ending the season with a couple. Um, it's actually a couple of minds. So a couple of that hired me during the pandemic whose wedding as currently planned for nest next August, um, Sinclair and Julia. And we talk about why did you hire me? Where are you at? Why, what, who are you hiring pandemic? What money are you spending? I mean, We really go into a lot of those details that I hope will be a value to vendors. Um, if you're a couple listening, I know a lot of couples listened to the podcast just because they like to know what vendors, like, what do we do? Um, you might really like to listen to the couple to, because I think a lot of what they share is what you're thinking about too. So, um, yeah, it's called the tear down the season goes live. Live in December, he can get it wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah. You said. We did. I did one of those a while back because we do a lot of these, obviously the vendor ones. And I said, you know, I think I'm going to, I think hopefully the talk to some couples this week, because there was all this, you know, we, we sit there and, well, the couples need to be thinking that. It's actually here. And it's great. You know, a lot of people are thinking the same things that you're thinking and asking the same questions you're asking and have the same doubts and whatever. And so, yeah, I definitely think there's almost more value sometimes to hearing those and whether, like you said, whether you agree with them or not, or. That was crazy. I wouldn't have done it that way. Right. It's really nice to hear that and know that you're not alone in that. And especially right now with, with everyone's going through all this stuff, being able to listen to maybe another couple, that's going through that similar experience. Is invaluable because no one has ever impro. Hopefully we'll never go through all the same stuff again. Right. Once in a lifetime. We're going through now. Uh, but that's great. So thank you for that. And then just your wedding planning stuff in general, please plug before we go. Just all your hoes. Yep. Well, it's all on my website. So everything I've talked about, um, both client facing. So for couples out there, all those reverse sources that I mentioned, I have a gist. A little sun oodles of blog posts, because that's just what I do particularly this year. When I thought I'd be working weddings, I just ride a lot. Um, so a bunch of stuff, they're all my vendors stuff. I have a tab on my website that says four vendors, um, that his podcast that is the event altered. I mean, it's, it's all that stuff. Um, and it's just that my website, Elisabeth kramer.com and I am on Instagram. So it's Elisabeth Kramer PDX, because believe it or not, even though my names are spelled super weird. I'm Elisabeth. Is with an S not a Z and Kramer's with a K not a C even despite my weird name. Elisabeth Kramer was taken on Instagram. So I had to add my city little, uh, three, three acronyms. So let's have Kramer PDX. Eric kramer.com. Oh, well, thank you again for this. I think we kind of, um, uh, we kind of have a general idea, but I think we stumbled into something good. And I think, uh, I think this is really good and valuable, and I just appreciate, you know, any vendors wanting to take their time to, to better kind of this community and provide resources.

Episode 23 - Creating the “Perfect” Wedding Timeline Pt. 1

Well, thank you guys all so much for joining us today. This has big, uh, episode. I found it was episode 24 it's episode 23. Rebecca was on episode number one. It's hard to believe that it's been, you know, 23 weeks now and we're still, um, we're doing this. Uh, best me weddings. We're we're talking about, we're going to craft the perfect wedding timeline to that. And so we have a, uh, a DJ photographer and the planner here, and we're going to 'em. Figure out some tips and tricks for how to get the best photos and, and reception staff and you know, kind of the whole overall thing with Rebecca. So I think you guys all so much for coming, Alan, why don't you introduce yourself? And then we'll go around and then we'll get into this. Great. Uh, I'm Alan Jelic Puget sound. DJ is my company name and I am honestly so fired up. I love talking about flow and timelines because I feel like it's the heart of getting a successful wedding. Awesome man. You got your, uh, Alan such a favorite now in the podcast, he has his own podcast microphone. We appreciate that. Yeah. Uh, Rebecca, I, thanks for coming on again. I know you're so busy and you guys got back into town. I appreciate it, Alan. And I said, we have to get Rebecca on here, so thank you so much. Why don't you introduce yourself? Yeah. So I'm Rebecca Grant. I'm the owner of new creations, wedding planning. I've been a wedding planner for over 16 years now, and I'm also the co-owner along with my husband of twin Willow gardens wedding venue out in Snohomish. Awesome. And Irene. Uh, no, no introductions needed. We appreciate you've been on many times before, but why don't you introduce yourself and tell us who you are. Hey, I'm Irene Jones. I own IJ photo and I'm a wedding photographer who just like our other friends here. I love talking about timelines. Love. Making a wedding day happen. Perfect. And so I think first off it would just kind of be interesting to ask each of you, what is, what does the perfect timeline just mean to you? Right? Cause that could mean lots of things to lots of people. It could mean. Not a lot of stress. It could mean lots of time for photos. Give me lots of time for dancing. So Irene, at what for you, what is just the perfect wedding timeline? What does that mean in your eyes? Uh, the perfect week timeline for me is a timeline that really takes the needs of all the people involved and finds a way to balance that. A lot of times we say, you know, weddings are about the bride and the groom and all about that, but I mean, they have a bunch of guests. And you want the guests to have a great time and really a lot of downtime and a timeline can really make for a core guest experience. And the same time you've got vendors that need to get them enough time to get their stuff done. You know, a DJ can't set up in five minutes, so we need to make sure that the timeline is well-balanced and fits the needs of all those involved. Excellent answer. Excellent answer. Ah. Rebecca, what is the perfect wedding timeline mean for you in this? Can't just be one that has the new creations, that logo at the top of it. What does it mean? But what it means to me is that vendors is actually read it. Pet peeve of mine. Okay. Um, no. It's it's very much to echo what Irene just mentioned, but I, my goal is to make sure that I've addressed all of the vendor arrival. They're staggered enough that things will actually be set up upon that vendor arrival, uh, make sure I'm allowing enough time for the event. Flow or a couples actually mingle with they ass and talk with their guests and enough time for them to go to the bathroom. You know, it's just kind of those little things that need to be thought of on a wedding day. And that's. I personally think for a lot of experience comes in is, um, you know, some of the timelines that I see from newbies and like, Oh gosh, you're missing so much. You know? So it's just, um, it comes with experience and it comes with knowing kind of the overall flow of the event day and making sure that we're addressing all the little pieces. Um, that the couple wants to incorporate in their wedding day, but also supporting those vendor needs for sure. Awesome. Uh, Vicky and Allan, as someone that, you know, obviously are more reception focused, but still, you know, keeping in mind the whole event of the day. What is the perfect wedding timeline mean to you? Well for me, I would echo a lot of what Irene and Rebecca just said, but at its core to me, a timeline. Is the flow. We're going to do this, then we're going to do that. And then we're going to do that. And then expanding that to where are we going to do that? And, and, and how people are going to move around how the guests will experience everything that they are seeing. Uh, and then, uh, As has been said, Take everything into account. The caterer once that food served hot. So they want a certain time where that's going to work a photographer. Wants to have sunset photos. Near wind sunset's going to happen. Um, and, and so you want to make sure that you're accommodating everybody that's on your team. Uh, and, and then it just flows because that's the kind of wedding people will stay for and they will remember, and they will enjoy, uh, if your wedding does not flow, if you have a lot of dead spots, People are going to be bored. They're going to be on their phones. They're going to be giving each other that look, do we have to stay? Yeah, we have to stay. That's great and true story. And just to kind of echo all about with, you know, guests experience at timeline and flow. We have a Halloween wedding. Like, you know, obviously this time of year, um, couple of years ago, and this is a true story. And we had, I know they probably had 60, 70 guests at the wedding and I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't a huge affair, but it was, you know, it was, it was a big, it was a big to-do. And we got done with the ceremony and like, we were doing family photos and things happened and things were taking a long time and no one was really, yeah, there wasn't a plan or telling people what to do. The DJ wasn't, you know, echoing any of this stuff. And we came in from you and the photos. And there was like 15, 20 people up. Like everybody went home and cause they were like, okay, what's happening here? What's going on with dinner. And so, you know, and, and we all as wedding vendors, Obviously there's like dinner's coming in and these things are coming, but like they didn't know or didn't care or ran out of time and patients. And so this is really area. I mean, this is an important thing, and this was a huge wedding and a lot of time and energy. So yeah, we want to make sure, like, Not only for the couple of Guinea mirror, but obviously for the guests to, I think it's so paramount to keep all that in mind for everybody. Cause I do think sometimes he had a couple of Getty, Marriott has a lot of focus on them and rightfully so, but I think, you know, the gas and the family and you know, if your mom's waiting around, did you something or you know, people that the food's running late, so yeah. I definitely agree with all that stuff. So starting kind of at the beginning of the day, um, I debated having a hair and makeup person here as well to kind of round this discussion out. I figured with Rebecca kind of handling, you know, a lot of timeline building, you know, Over the years we could get a good frame of that. What do we, when it comes to like getting ready hair and makeup. What are we thinking? How much time does that take? You know, Do we do the first, do we do the bright laser? You know, what, what kind of, what are some tips for that part of the day? So I can definitely jump in on this one. So kind of working from a vendor perspective, cord. How I build my timelines. I always share the rough draft of the timeline. Minimum two months in advance with my entire vendor team. So at that point, I've already talked with a couple of what do you want to include? What do you not want to include? How many ladies. Saving here, make up service as, and what I build timeline out as the rough draft is this is the time hair and makeup needs to be done. So I can build the entire rest of the day, according to when photos need to happen when the ceremony needs to happen, et cetera. And I always tell my brides. Let your hair and makeup artists know this is the downtime. And I will also share that email with them and I let the hair and makeup artists dictate what the start time needs to be because I'm not a professional. Hair and makeup artists. You couldn't tell it right. Aye. I, um, I don't like to force them into what the standard is. I want to make sure, like, if they're working with unique or style, Um, for curly hair. Straight here. If working with, you know, a here. The rides we ran or I hear of the shoulders, you know, like I want them to be able to dictate that. So I always let them do their start time. On average though, um, the bride should take about an hour and a half to two hours. The wedding party and moms should take right around 45 minutes to an hour. So that's kind of a general rule of thumb, even mine that does not include like how many makeup artists. The vendor is bringing on site. So if they've had a team. For ladies that are performing here and makeup services, obviously that's going to move a lot faster than if it's just that one singular event. They're trying to perform and make up services for the entire wing party moms. Um, obviously that's going to be a lot earlier start times. So that's something to keep in mind, not only with vendor availability. Also then use availability. So if you're trying to get ready. You know, on site, a lot of places won't let you in, you know, Here at 20 below my. A couple of mental techniques you have available. You know, you have the option of adding additional hours, but that is a cost. So that's something to have a couple of way out is. Okay. So increased cost of hair and makeup. So I can start later and actually you've been an excellent breakfast. Or do I want to save the money with one hair makeup artist, but increase the venues time? Um, what is that way out at? Um, then he asking. The last part you were asking, um, I don't remember. Anyway, I'll let somebody else take it from here. We're really having a little bit of wifi trouble with ITI, Rebecca. I hate to, and then we moved to you before the episodes started, um, trying to get a it's all it's a little bit cut out. Um, but no, that's good to, to, um, differ the hair and makeup. Uh, when you, when it comes to, you know, like the bride. You know, there's always this debate, you know, does the bride goal last? Do they go second to last? Are we waiting on mom or someone to put in the dress? I mean, any advice on that? Does anyone else have any thoughts? Irene's got a thought about that. I always tell my brides to go first because, uh, that way we can do a first look while we're waiting for bridesmaids to finish hair and makeup, and also. I tell them whatever your hair and makeup person says for the amount of time it takes for them to their services. Add 30 minutes because you're going to get randomized. There's going to be somebody who says I can't find such and such centerpieces and you got to get out of the chair. They'll help him by the centerpieces. And then come back and the hair and makeup, people know their stuff and they know how to do their business, but they can't necessarily account. For all of the other random little things that are going to happen during your day. So if you buffer it just a little bit, your chances of being on time or a lot higher. I just know that when it came to and Rebecca did our wedding, when it came to Dorothy Gideon, you know, her hair and makeup done, I remembered that like they had hit her and then a couple more for friends had to do it afterwards so that she could go and they weren't. Yeah, they were integral to the wedding, but they were not integral to like photos or family things. And so she was able to go and we could do our first looking things while people could still, cause I can't tell you how many times, you know, we have a bride done. But their mom's not ready at all. Right. And okay, well we gotta wait now she's got to put on the dress or the maid of honor has got to do whatever and they're not ready to go. So it's not just. Yeah, making sure, you know, the, the woman of the day is ready, but it's, you know, is there someone that, that needs to be with them to do things or like, are they leaving together or is she helping carry the dress? And we need to have those people done. More as a unit right. Than just having like the bride hovers. You know, whatever done right. And I think a lot of that comes down to just really planning. Um, so one person isn't carrying the lion's share of all the work. If everything rests on the bride and the bride is solely responsible for all of little details, it's going to take much longer because she has to answer a million questions or if mother-in-law is in charge of. You know, doing X, Y, and Z, but she should be getting ready because she needs to be in photos. Then that can be a huge time suck as well. So delegation is key to a really smooth, uh, working morning. Yep. And that's also one of the reasons why you hire a plane. There are two is because all those million little questions we have already asked, and we should already know the answer to that and can help take that stress off of the bride shoulders. That she can actually enjoy being fried. Truly being the mom. And we're the ones running around to just making all those little decisions and that the little fires are put out. Yeah. Totally. We have the wedding. I think I've told this story before. Was it last summer? And whether the bridesmaids was asking the brand, you know, Hey, w w I, we were getting ready at the waterfront, and then they were getting married at a church. And then the reception was back at, uh, Like the bell Harbor convention center. And they were like asking the bright, okay. So should I park my car here? Or should I take an Uber? And I'm like, why are you asking her right now? Like, what are you doing? Like. I mean, you can, you need to figure out your own stuff. Like, can we please get her dressed and get going? Like, why are we, but yeah, like you said, that's why you definitely want to have a plan or, or, you know, a point person. Cause you'd be amazed. How many dumb questions, people that are not getting married have a day off. Right. Uh, when it comes to, to, you know, photo video to arrive, uh, I re and I want to hear your thoughts on this and Rebecca too. When, you know, I always say, you know, like half hour or so before that, you know, the dress gets on to get some details and stuff. What do you guys think about that? I read. And when you tell your couples to start, cause I think people freak out like, Oh, why don't need like five hours of getting ready for those? I mean, what do you tell your couples? Um, I tell the bride that I want to be there an hour before hair and makeup is supposed to be done to start details. And that way I can be there for the dress going on and also get some of the guys. I think it's really important that we get the same amount of coverage of the men getting ready or a partner in getting ready. I really hate it when a wedding's lopsided and it's about one person that feels kind of weird to me. Rebecca thoughts on that. Yeah, I'm right there with her. Typically I will build a timeline out with about 30 to 45 minutes prior to hair and makeup services. Um, but again, that's why you share that, that rough draft of the timeline with the entire vendor team two months before the wedding day. Is to make sure, like, if I'm working with Irene for instance, and she, she wants to go, no, I want that full hour. I have the ability to bump that up and then talk with the couple for shifting the timeline of photography coverage up a little bit. Are you guys okay with that? Do you need to pay for extra time, et cetera? Um, but yes, that is very standard rule. Um, I know when I arrive on the eighth, I helped get the shoes, jewelry, Vale. Um, any vow books, the rings, uh, any personal details, family. Et cetera. Out and set for the photographer. I'm not necessarily doing like a flat lay or full stage, but I won't get a photographer to have availability to all of those. Upon their arrival. Um, I also, at my final wrap-up meeting will. Always ask for a copy. I will always ask for a copy of the, um, of the imitation suite as well. So I bring that with me and have that available for the photographer too. And alongside that you also something that has always gotten, um, for amateurs and for people that are doing this without a planner is also want to make sure that Flores does there at that same time. Um, cause if the poor photographers trying to take detail shots, And there's flowers there, or if there are any to go get a photo of the guys getting ready and there's no boot nears depends on that's a missed opportunity. So you want to be sure that the personal flowers are there at that same time. Yeah. How many times do we see in the world? Okay. We did the first lock or we're halfway through like guys photos, and then we're like, Oh, we don't have anybody in here. So I go, we gotta go do it. Got to go do all that over again. I know. And that's great advice from Rebecca too, about, um, having those details and stuff set aside. I can't tell you how many times, you know, if I show up and if the photographer is not there yet, or if there some, some photographers aren't big into details and stuff like that. And like, You know, you might spend 20 minutes just trying to figure out, okay. Where are the shoes? Okay. Where's your ring out. Okay. Okay. The address is here. It's in the bag. Okay. Where's the hanger. Okay. You don't know where the hanger is. It's in the box and you're trying to do all these things. Yeah, that's eating into that time. Right? I remember we had a wedding last year and they wanted like all, they wanted all the bridesmaids dresses, all photographed, and none of them were ready. None of them had the hangers. None of them were ready to go. And I looked at it. Or I say, you're paying us to do this then, like, this is like, I'm at this point, I'm a, I'm a Sears worker and I'm putting clothes on hangers and hanging them up. I mean, he took half hour, right? By the time we tried it for the guys that I don't think that's what they envisioned, you know, pain. We all, you know, wedding vendors cost a lot of money. And I just don't think that that is what you envisioned is paying your wedding vendor to kind of do your laundry and hang everything up. Right. I mean, you, you want them to know that the stuff that you can do. I read other thoughts about getting ready to stop before we, you know, anything else I forgot to ask about that. And Alan, we're going to get more to you later. I know. So you're ready, Alan standby. I read. And other thoughts about getting ready stuff or tips or tricks? Um, you know, Rebecca covered it really well. And I have done weddings where she's done that and it's fantastic because I walk in and I'm like, I don't have to dig through your underwear bag. This is great. It was awkward to look for through somebody's stuff to try to find their rings or shoes or whatever. Or sometimes I photographed the wrong stink and shoes. When they don't put them out. Yeah. We've all done that. Um, and it's written. [unknown] to have to, you know, kind of go through that. That process. So, yeah, I really appreciate a good planner who understands what the needs are and anticipates those things. I don't think couples really understand how valuable having someone that can anticipate what the structure of your day is going to be. So where I think we should go next is, is to the whole question of doing the first look or not. Is that, does that make sense? If I'm going kind of were going through the timelines. So we've got people ready, equal time for, you know, both sides of the party. I think it was really important. Like Irene said, you know, making sure that, you know, the guys feel like they're, they're getting some shots too. Cause you know, they're, it's always. I got like two shots of me getting ready on my wedding day, but that was almost more of a personal choice. But anyway, so we get to the first luck. Uh, Alan, what do you think about the first, like, I want to talk to you and what is, what is, I know you have thoughts on this and everybody does, but why should couples do a first look on their wedding day? I am a DJ. But I will say that if I were to give one piece of advice to a couple, the number one suggestion I would have on my list is do a first look. I'm going to let somebody who's much better qualified than me. Talk about some of the photographic elements of it. But I want to say a few things first off. Uh, your flow is so much better. It really impacts your whole day. If you are going to wait until after the ceremony. And. I think we've all been to weddings where that cocktail hour was an hour and a half. And everyone's looking around where, where are they? And they're getting their pictures taken. And I feel like that really reduces the energy. For all the guests. And then one other point I often make to couples. Um, you are. Spending so much energy and. Money. To gather these people under one roof. At the same time. You can maximize that. By doing a first look. And then you, you have more time. That you can spend with people you could potentially go in and, and have cocktails. A little bit during the cocktail hour. And I think if you asked most people who got married. Uh, what's an extra half an hour with all those people worth. They would say a lot. Yeah, it was paramount for our wedding that Dorothy wanted. We never left anybody after the wedding. You know, once we got there that we did photos and family, but that was really important to her. And I said, well, you know, We're getting married in West Seattle. We can get all these great sunset photos. You know, it, it would take, you know, half, hour, hour by the time we would actually, we would have had to drive from where we got married, but she said, no, I don't want to do that. You know, it was important. And, and, and if that's not to say that's important to everybody, but it is, if you're not going to do a first look. Then E you have to lose something somewhere. And so then by not losing the first look, you are losing a lot of that time with, with people at your reception. Uh, Rebecca thoughts on first look. Oh, there is a huge topic for me. Um, I get asked this question a lot. And I will always 100% of the time try and talk couples unless they are absolutely dead set on having that for a sec. And down the aisle, I will always tell them the benefits of having that first look photo. Oh, and there's several reasons to me. So not only what Alan touched on. Um, but it is also like the cocktail hour and being able to join that cocktail. Or is really replacing the tool. Hello. Kind of like the table to table receiving line, if you will. Um, which takes up so much time. Like your day and completely delays the entire rest of the programming, where you're trying to move things along and keep people engaged and keep people there and present. Um, being able to really engage in me. And walk amongst your guests during cocktail hour is so vital. Um, kind of backing up before that a lot of brides have concerns. Well, I want that feeling. And I will tell you I'm not. Sure. How many of you know, but I've been married twice. My first wedding, we opted to wait until walking down the aisle. My second wedding. I did not. I learned my lesson. Um, the, that. The sense you don't lose it. Well, I got married to my husband, Brian. You know, I'm married to now. Um, he told me that when he heard me laugh and when he saw me for the first time, Is stressed. Just. Way down. And just, he was so amped up and so nervous for the day. And as soon as we saw each other that went away and that melted away. You're able to talk with each other and you're able to like, say you're amazing and you're able to just really engage and be with each other and have those moments without feeling. Pressure of, Oh my gosh. We have to get through. Family photo. And we still have to get through portrait photos and we have people waiting for us back at the reception, you know? Um, you get both. So, not only do you have the opportunity to talk with people and know your wedding party? Your spouse. Before the wedding. Once you have those guests seated. And all eyes are on you and the music starts and your groom is waiting or your partner's way at the end of that style. You. 100% will get that same feeling. You will absolutely have that. Experience, even if you decided not to do a first look. What are the other things? My brides. They are opting to do a first look. Really. They're going to be losing out on that feeling. It out of Vail. Um, sometimes don't wear the male for the first leg. Don't bring your book here for the first look and then for the ceremony. At the Vale, add the. Okay. And he's going to get, or your partner's going to get a totally different view of you than what they saw at the first Slack. So. Is down. Always do. You're trying to say is what I've been. Sometimes up to three hours. Great. If you went out for cocktail hour and you're going to be disappointed that not getting the photos that you want and all that Irene speak to that. I it's really cutting out the wifi. Is there anywhere? I know we can pause here for a minute. Is there anywhere that would be. I know that. Let me see if my husband is. So I can remember the, um, to okay. Sorry. Let them use mine too. Yeah, no, that's fine. I just want. Here. It's it's it's it's getting progressively choppier. Okay. Sorry. Hold on one second. If that's okay. Irene is chomping at the bit. My wife. Okay. Keeps cleaning out right. From the photographers, like when do I get the. Talk about the first look, I want to talk about it now. We'll get there. It's cool. Shopping. I have a lot. Okay. I see. We implant that, um, We have created a router last night. And so now my internet is so fantastic. Oh, great. I love nothing more than we have. Uh, there. Let's say expensive, these like mesh Wi-Fi routers, but like, cause we pay. I paid $300 a month for fiber under that. So I can like upload all this stuff. And I was, I was infuriated that like the routers we had, weren't keeping up with it. Yeah. They're very expensive, but yeah, it's, it's, it's a life and death. You know, it's a game, it's a game changer. Like I can't go to other people's house. Like my mom's house. I'm like, Oh, this is like terrible. It was this testing. Testing testing. Are we good? Uh, your pictures now, it's kind of moving. Pixelated. I'm sorry. Um, where's your router in your house? I'm sitting right next to it. What, if you turn your video off, do you have like a photo? Yes they do, because it might, it might be better with just the audio. Okay, I'll try that. Let's see if that I'm so sorry. Okay. Oh, thanks. Yeah. So far. Yeah. It was hard to be worse. Where it was getting near the end. That's fine. I'm sorry. Well, no, it's fine. Um, Yeah, I would love that actually. Why don't you, um, I'll set up and then we'll toss it. That'd be good. Um, well, we're going to have Rebecca turn her video off here just for a minute to see if we can get a little bit better. Audio connection, Rebecca, what are your thoughts about doing the first look and, and encouraging your couples to do the first look? I am a huge fan of first Luxe. I will always direct my couples to 100% of the time. Do a first luck, unless they are absolutely dead set against it. Obviously I want it to be your wedding. So I'm going to take into account what you want, but if you want my opinion and what you're paying me for. I will always tell you to do our first like photo. And the reason being is one, because you're trying to basically squeeze what sometimes is up to three hours of creative portrait photos into an hour cocktail hour. And you're then looking at the clock all the time. You're trying to go, Oh my gosh, we still have to get to your family photos. We still have to get through portraits and keep in mind when you're trying to do photos during cocktail hour people scatter. And so it takes even longer to try and find those people. Um, also like. Having the couple be able to join the cocktail hour has really taken the place of that table to table greeting. Which takes freaking forever. And it takes you away from eating dinner and it really pushes back the overall programming of the day. And people are starting to get bored as you're engaging with an individual table. One-on-one. Um, in the morning to like one of the biggest concerns that I have from brides is like, well, I want that feeling. And I want that. Emotion, you know, That they see me for the first time when I'm walking down the aisle. And I will tell people, you know, I've been married twice and I, the first time did not do a first look photo. And the second time I did and I would never do it any different, um, You know, and that's how I can really speak from firsthand experience to my couples that. Think about it. Like if you don't do a first luck, the first time you're walking down the aisle and see each other, you can't talk, you're all of a sudden, immediately into the ceremony and you can't tell each other, you look amazing. Oh my gosh, how's your day, Ben, you know, like, You can't move right into that versus if you were to do. A first look, photo. Your nerves are at ease here. Your presence with each other is a lot calmer. You can talk with your wedding party, you can laugh and engage and go have a great time with each other. Um, prior to the ceremony, not having to stress as much about time, not having to stress about people, waiting for you, you know, to get back to them. And then on top of that with couples wanting to still have that experience. I tell brides all the time. Like once all eyes are on you, the music is going. You're happy. Viewable K you have a veil in, um, you, you will absolutely get that feeling. You'll still have that breathtaking moment of, Oh my gosh, this is happening. So. Once you're in the moment and the music is there and the people are there and you know, your partner's waiting for you at the end of the aisle. 100%, you will still have that moment. I was going to share a couple of stories by that. Want to hold off on Irene Sheeran. That's about the first look anymore as the photographer. So I'll toss to Irene and I'll share my story. I agree with your thoughts on the first look. So I don't push too hard to get people to do a first look and all about 50% of my couples of don't, but I always do phrase it very similarly to the way Rebecca did about how, okay. Here's the trade offs. So if they are on the fence, generally after listing those trade offs, so you can still get the same emotion. You save a ton of time. You get to speak. More time with your guests. You do get all of the butterflies that you're looking for. With them, they go, Oh yeah. First look sounds great because they see that it's a better deal for them longterm. Not just monetarily, but like emotionally and you know, just a better experience. And, um, those that say, no, I really, I really have to do this first look. Um, I've always wanted to be Julia Roberts and runaway bride, and that's how she did it. Then I go. Sure. That's that's fine. Um, but then I do tell them we're going to cut back on the number of photos we're going to do. So that means we're going to do split formals. And we're only going to do a certain set beforehand because you only got a bride or groom and we're switching off. And you may not get that big family photo with both parties. And I also say we're only going to do 30 minutes, 45 minutes tops. Of the couple together, because we've got to sign your license. And someone's going to ask you a question and somebody's uncle is gonna run off. And those things are going to take time away from me doing the job that you're hiring me to do. So if you're okay with me doing 45 minutes instead of an hour and a half or whatever, you were hoping for it, and you want that thing, then I'll go ahead and do it. But I think it's really important that I set realistic expectations for my couples as to what the two different options are going to give them. And if they're okay with no first look, then I'm okay with it too. But. I am very clear on that. That being said, the people that do a first look, I feel like they get a lot more value out of me as a photographer. And that of their entire wedding day. So I am like Rebecca, I'm always saying, this is a great idea, but I'm not going to force someone to do something they don't want to do. Yeah, I mean, Dorothy and I did our first look. I still was a sobbing wreck walking down the aisle. Right. We still, yeah. I mean, we still, we still had all that. And then I will just say too, and this is obviously just from like personal whatever, but I think it speaks to. The feel of the day with the couples. You know, the weddings that we do, where we, you know, they do a first look, they're able to hang out all day we're as the photo, the video team were able to hang out, come over. It just, it feels like they got to have more of a day together, you know? And obviously I'm just speaking. Cause I got to have a day with them, but I feel like we all got to have a day together. Whereas when you do this, this chicken dance where, you know, we're seeing the one and then we're doing the other, and then he's off running around, or who's knows what's going on. And then at the end of the day, you're like rule. You know, we got married and then, then you're eating and your people are talking to you and then you do your dance and it's done. And like, you just didn't get to spend a lot of time together and, and, and that's fine, but. But that's a nice thing too, is to be able to think about like, I got to spend, you know, my wedding day with my significant other, which I think is, is cool. Yeah. And something, something too to think about if you're really like on the fence about doing a first look photo or not. And I'm, I'm sorry, Irene, if I'm stepping on your toes as this one, because this one's very selfish to me as a vendor. Um, if you've only hired one photographer and they are then pulled away to only be doing your formal portraits during cocktail hour. They're completely missing out on the opportunity to photograph people during cocktail hour mingling, having those engagements without you getting detailed shots, which is huge. Especially if you put a lot of time, energy and thought into your decor. Um, it is, you're missing out on a lot of those details that are typically happening during cocktail hour. When the photographer is able to be freed up to go do that. If you have two photographers, Obviously a little bit more easy to do that depending. Um, but if there's like multiple locations involved, it still can be really, really tough to be able to get all those details shots. So just keep that in mind, if you're on the fence about it. I have to say I'm 100% with you on that one. That's totally the truth. And I wish couples would really realize that I'm only one person. I can't be in two places at once. Uh, can I tell you a funny story about my wedding raid? Yes, please. Do. So my husband and I did a first look a couple of minutes before the church. And as we're, uh, I'm standing outside waiting for him, he pulls up, he gets out of the car and he is wearing the wrong suit. If we had not done a first look. We would have gone to the altar and I would have sworn at him I'd have been so mad. I would have gotten in so much trouble with my phrase. Because I said, where are the tuxedo? The suit is for day two. We had a two day wedding. And he totally reversed that. So first look saved our marriage man. No. That's great. And, and just yet with, with, like you said, with the one photographer videographer to like, cause yeah, if we're doing portraits and stuff after the ceremony, like then it's only going to be me doing the romantics with Irene or whatever. And then I got to send off the assistant or their, you know, or you're like, Oh, we got to rush and get detail shots really quick before they do the internet. It's never going to be, like Rebecca said, it's never going to be as, as, um, Just have enough time to do it that way. Uh, we wanted to talk when I pose this question and I said about making the perfect timeline. Irene said, um, scheduling your ceremony. If you can around the light, is that correct? Yeah, so, so we've done getting ready. We've done. First look now, ceremony stuff. Talk to me about that. What are your thoughts? Well, I think, um, I generally work backwards from sunset when I'm thinking about how a wedding day should go, because every single one of my couples want sunset photos. And if, especially during the summer, we get some gorgeous sunsets here. So I'm telling people if you want to do the sunset photos, that means we have to be at a place at the reception where I can steal you for 15 minutes. So what are the moments that you can break away? Uh, there are very few of them. Honestly, you can do it during dinner. You can do it during dancing really, or before the reception starts, depending on the time of year, those are your three options. And so, uh, if you are planning for sunset photos, you need to keep that in mind and move your ceremony accordingly. Also, I tell people to avoid, uh, depending on their venue. Ceremony start time. That is, uh, in bright, open, sunshine out in the field at noon. Just because everyone's going to be dying at Pete. The shadows are going to be ridiculous and you're going to be miserable. Tuxes or hot suits or hot wedding dresses are hot. Um, that being said, a lot of venues already have this taken care of for you, which is so nice. They know when their ceremony time should be based on experience. So I tell people to trust their venues or their planner when they say, Oh yeah, at twin Willow gardens, we know that the sun is in the right spot. At this time of day for your wedding. So that's when you should have your ceremony. Alan is someone that, that is involved with the ceremony to, do you have thoughts about this? I do. I feel like, you know, I, I respected Irene wants to work back from the sun. I like to work back from the contracted end of the reception. In most venues these days, there's a 10 o'clock music off. So that's a starting point that says your desks. You gotta have a laugh stance at nine 50 and an exit at nine 55 or something like that. And by and large, without any other contingencies. A wedding is about six hours. So my, my default, if you said, what time should we have a Saturday wedding would be four, six. And that does give a photographer, uh, preferably Irene. Uh, the ability to take you out. Uh, for your, your sunset gives you an ability to do all the things you want to do, spend your time with your guests. Have a good amount of dancing theirs. Other things that could change some of that, but that's where I would start for most couples on a summer. Saturday. Also who wants to eat at three in the afternoon. Yeah. Ironically, I would say that for some Sunday, weddings. You want to avoid? Um, that thing where people start to think about Monday. You just don't want to let your guests do that. So in my opinion, Start your Sunday wedding early. I like a, if I were, if, if you just said to me, Alan, when's my Sunday wedding window, I would say, start your ceremony at two and ended at eight. Because people can stay up until eight o'clock to stay at your reception. If you can't, you've got to find new friends. Um, Rebecca, what are your thoughts on this? And I have a question for Alex. I also worked backward from this, from the venue in time, and that is 100% how I always build my timelines, but I do a lot for timing. Uh, for sunset, especially during the summer. Um, and. I always, I built in the timing in terms of the sunset. Same as Irene, you know, typically I want it to happen as guests are getting seated for the reception, or I want it to happen as the caterers are serving champagne for toast, you know, some something where there's naturally a deck. Downtime. Where couples can escape without really being noticed that they're gone and then guests can kind of wrap up whatever they're doing. And then we move right into the next thing. Um, I don't want us to be like, Oh, it's time for cake cutting. And the photographers, like, wait, I have to take sunset photos and then everybody's waiting around. So, um, I do, I do build my timeline's off of the venue and time always build in time for sunset. And then we work backward from there. Um, based on your ceremony start time. And generally speaking with later in times, like Alan was saying anywhere between 10 to midnight is an average venue and time. Your, your ceremony is not going to be in the heat of the day. It's always going to be, you know, somewhere between two to four. And then if you want like a black tie. Evening event to your ceremony. Somewhere right around six, six 30, somewhere right around there. Yeah. And you could be, I mean, like I know at our venue at Salty's cause they do like, they did like a morning rental and then an afternoon rental it's our ceremony had to be like at six, 15 or six 30. I mean, there just wasn't. There wasn't an option to, obviously you're going to have situations where you might be tied into a specific time because of your venue, right? But ideally. Yeah. I do a question I wanted to ask Alan is, you know, so, so that Sunday wedding is tough because you need to schedule it at a time. I think that two o'clock is a good two or three, because you need to schedule it where people are still devoting the whole day to it. Cause I've done some where it's too early and then people were thinking like, wash, I can go watch football now. Like I got, I gotta get outta here. Right. So talk about that. Is there a concern about that too? If that ceremony is too early on a Sunday, I think if you're going to go early on a Sunday, embrace it as a brunch. Wedding. Uh, or something like that. Um, And I think if you were to go significantly early at 11 or noon or something like that, that is probably how people would approach it. I believe that the character of a Sunday wedding generally. Is different than the character of a Friday or Saturday wedding. Anyway, I think it's less of a party atmosphere and more of a family reunion. Sunday picnic. Everybody gets together. Kind of thing. And as long as that's your expectation going in. Plan around that and just make it fun for everybody to do that and just be able to socialize with each other. I want to go to your Sunday wedding. So sound like fun. Yeah, I let her out. I'm talking about the character. What is the character of his Sunday when he wants to sell. Is that like I'm in. I guess Sunday weddings. Likes long walks on the beach. Most sons wedding mimosa could work. I paid the sunny. Cause that's the thing is. You know, I think people have this email and my wife is guilty of it too, but I think a lot of people. If it's not a wedding party until midnight, it's not a wedding and that's not necessarily the case. Right. You can have, we've had great brunch. Wedding's on Sunday. Uh, you know, or, or, you know, lazy afternoon kind of getting into the evening. Uh, w would you shift the time, like a Friday wedding? Uh, obviously shifted. Like when people are off work, is that the only consideration there? Anybody else considerations for like that Friday? I tell people, I'm sorry. Go ahead, Rebecca. Please go ahead, Irene, after you. I tell people Friday's the, to take that into consideration, um, and that their family members, specifically people that are in photos or wedding party, that they should be taking the day off and that they need to make those. Does announcements those family members. Well in advance, please get this day off. You're a part of my wedding party. I need you there at two in the afternoon because I've had that happen. Where they say, Oh, the best man, won't be here until 20 minutes before the ceremony, because he couldn't get off of work. And I'm like, Okay. Let's see what we can do to work around that. Let's. If we can minimize the number of curve balls, we have to throw our vendors on a wedding day. You have a much higher success rate. Yeah, I would 100% agree with that. And also just keep in mind on normal times that Friday afternoon traffic, especially in Seattle sucks. So, I mean, I would even encourage like your entire guest list, either work a half day or take the day off, like go explore downtown Seattle, go. You know, have time to get your hair and makeup done before you attend the event. You know, make a day of it if they have that flexibility. But, um, I mean, obviously we know people's work schedule. Doesn't always allow for them. To just be able to take an arbitrary day off because it's a friend's wedding, but, um, definitely take that into consideration for your ceremony. Start time, especially if you're on. The outskirts of the city. It's going to take a very long time to get from point a to point B. I think one creative way that couples can address that is to consider. Starting there Friday wedding with the cocktail hour. Have your have your wedding. How'd that start, maybe it's five. Or for whatever, but have that be the buffer. So that if people are stuck in traffic, they are, they're not going to miss the ceremony. Um, and then you do your ceremony and you go pretty quickly into dinner. Um, there are lots of implications. Of that. Uh, on, on photos and on attendance and the, if they're, if it's, if there's a bride or brides involved, they would not typically get to be involved in the cocktail hour because they're typically. Hidden off. So there's trade offs and things, but it's a creative approach. That can can make the Friday wedding flow a little bit better when taking Puget sound traffic into account. For sure. Yep. And also kind of to piggyback off of that, you don't have to have a full hour cocktail hour. So even if you needed to push your ceremony, start time back later. There's nothing to say, especially if you've done a first look photo beforehand. If your venue does not require you to have a flip of the space. So going from where the ceremony was, moving everybody out, transitioning it back into the reception space. If your, if your venue has the ability to have two completely different preset spaces, you absolutely can shorten up that cocktail hour. Move everyone from point a to point B and be able to start your ceremony a lot later than you would have had you, you know, Rather than having a full hour cocktail hour. I love the, I like the idea of doing the cocktail hour ahead of time for that Friday, whether you, and I think that's a great tip. I mean, Something just to keep in mind too is, um, obviously keep your catering staff and prize. The Sarah I've done. I've seen it where we're moving the ceremony up or whatever, and then there's no planner and they're like, caters not ready. So like, okay, we got married, but now we don't have food for another hour and a half. So you're like, so you do, I mean, there's. There's considerations across the board. Uh, one last question on the ceremony while, you know, during the summer, right. Building around sunset and everything. As we're moving out into winter and there is no sunset right. Limited stuff. Are we just trying to get married while there's still light in the day I ran or whether we, is there any other tips for doing like a non summer wedding ceremony? Start time. Yeah, most of this, uh, winter weddings I'm doing are indoors and it doesn't really matter. So you're just working with the light that you got. A, one of the venues that it does really matter is Lord Hill farms, because they've got those big gigantic windows. And, um, it looks really tacky and terrible in my opinion. When it's night outside, because all you're getting is reflections back of flashes, popping and things. And so it looks really gross. So I'm always telling people if we're at Lauren Hill farms, please give him hair aid before the sun goes down. So the window doesn't become a huge distraction. Other than that. I haven't had a lot of trouble because not many people are getting married in the middle of the day, outside in January. Alan do you, do you. Same rules for reception stuff for winter weddings. I mean, same kind of timeline. And people were just getting married inside. I agree with that concept. Like a, an off season wedding is generally going to be indoors and. If you're, if you're isolated in a room, you had the opportunity to have great party. People people are still in that. That good mood. Uh, so I think any of those things can work. What about hypothetically speaking, if you had a wedding, let's say last weekend and they did it at six o'clock and it was pitch black and freezing them, they do about five. Did that happen to you? Like it was so dark. I was like, we got married over this. It was the somewhere I'm like fall city. It was like the river. Anyway. I'm like, why would we wait till it's pitch black? I go, why would we get married here? And then we can't see anything. It was like, and it was just freezing. I go, isn't actually freezing it for it's freezing now at six 30, I guess, freezing. I'm sorry. I was like Rebecca, any other thoughts on, uh, on off season ceremony started times before we move into Alan's time to shine? Nope. Alan and Irene already covered everything. If you want to take advantage of you start at when it's daylight, if it doesn't matter. Start it later. Uh, Alan, I'm curious your thoughts about this, you know, constructing this reception, and obviously everyone can comment on this too, but you know, what is the realistic time that people are going to be dancing and that people are going to be doing stuff that it's going to be alive as a reception? Two two and a half hours is a good. Solid amount of dancing. So again, you can sort of work backwards a little bit. If you're going to have your exit at nine 50 or nine 55. You know, getting into open dancing by seven 30 is an appropriate goal. That that, that they, it gives you enough. Time there, there are couples and they can self identify who want more. Who want to dance three hours, four hours. Uh, Sometimes five, which hurts my legs. Just thinking about it. Um, but they know it right, but most crowds, most guests, if you get to two and a half hours of dancing and you are going to feel fulfilled, you are going to feel like you really got to celebrate. Um, And in my opinion, it's better to have a dance party that stays strong and you have a great memorable, last dance with almost everybody still there. Um, and then you have an exit where maybe people just tunnel or whatever that, to me concludes that event on a really high note. So I'd much rather see that than somebody scheduled three and a half hours of dancing and it kind of Peters out. It's a tough thing. There's been so many that we've done where it's, it's just this totally other kind of like skeleton crew at the end and yeah, you just were spit. I don't know what you do there. I mean, is it just less time we scheduled through this schedule less time for that and be realistic. I, I think that a couple needs to make a mental decision about what their goal is for some people staying with their hard core friends, having 15 of their best friends on the dance floor at the end. Is great. They're having a great time for other people. It's like, no, I'd rather, I'd rather cut it off. Uh, when it's still going strong. And so I try to give them some realistic ideas based on their guest count the day of the week and things like that. About how much dancing there will be. And then throughout that night, I'll be checking in with them. Rebecca, what do you think about this? And then I have, I want to, I probably should've asked this first about flow of events in the reception of the lips. So let's talk about timing of reception and then maybe let's get into order of order of operations. Sure. So. Timing. I would agree with Alan that typical heavy dance party is about two and a half hours. The absolute worst is when I have to check in with a couple when there's literally like six to 10 people there and I'm like, Hey, do you want to. Keep going, do you want to cut it off? I hate that conversation. So let's just have that conversation. Like, let's be realistic. You're hiring me for my 16 years experience. Let's make sure that it's a killer dance party and then go from there. There's a couple logistical things around that to be aware of. If a couple has hired transportation for the evening. And if they do decide to end up. You know, ending earlier than what they were expecting. Sometimes they can't leave because that vehicle is on another run and they can not get to your venue or the emergency hotline doesn't pick up. And I can't even let them know that we're done early. So definitely like better to just build a solid timeline from the get go, rather than have to scramble at the end. Um, also alongside that, I typically, when I'm building in my timelines, Again, based off of that. Venue end time. I will always do the last song of the night, about 15 to 20 minutes before the actual venue hard end. And that allows time for the five minute. Last song of the night allows time for the goodbyes and then allows time for P for the couple to get offsite right at their end time to allow the full cleanup time for vendors that they, that they truly need. If, if guests and the couple are hanging out a half hour after the end time when it's supposed to be vendor cleanup vendors. Others are scrambling. And then you're all of a sudden, possibly incurring additional costs for that venue rental because you weren't out in time. So just kind of some logistical things to keep in mind around that if you're doing a formal sendoff, um, that, that sometimes we'll bump it up a little bit earlier for the last song of the night. Cause you need to allow logistics for people to move from point a to point B. And by this point, they're drunk. And so people tend to move slower. And do you want to make sure that, um, you're now you're just giving them the best opportunity to get those photos that you need. You know, people lined up for the sparkler is the sparklers handed out. Instruction's gone over, um, make sure that the vehicles there make sure personal belongings are loaded into the vehicle. Um, you know, just kind of all those last, last of the Knights stuff that needs to be from point a to point B. You got to allow time for that to happen. So even though your venue says, yeah, you've got until 10, realistically, you're going to be wrapping up right around nine 30 to nine 45. No. You should be running the country girl. If you can get 200 drunk people, the whole fire and nothing goes wrong. You deserve. They'll try it. And I was going to say, I really prefer when we do the first week I get the sparkler send off is at 10 and then we don't actually start getting everybody ready to do it until 10. And so then it actually takes like 20 minutes and then we do it like at 10 30. That's really, my favorite is limited that way. No. I much appreciate. Yes. Yeah. If your, if your vendor team has done at 10, you need to have be done at 10. You don't need to start getting ready to go at 10. You need to do that. Um, I probably should've done this first, before that. Like order of operations. This was a big thing for me when I plan my wedding reception. And I know I talked to lots of, you know, everybody here and stuff about it. What do we, is it, do we like doing, you know, toast cake cutting all that into, in the open dancing. Some people like to, like we did tell us we came in and did tell us because you know, Dorothy's family wanted the details and then we went into stuff. Alan, what, what do we do? Order of operations? What, what do you think is successful? And then we'll go around. I think there are lots of different contingencies that need to be taken into account. Like we were just talking in general about a timeline. So, um, but in general, if it were me suggesting a timeline, I would eat. I would do any games or activities that don't necessarily require guests to be done eating yet. Like if you were to play the shoe game and people are still eating that work sign, this is a little comic relief. In my opinion. I like to then suggest, Hey. And then toasts, uh, and then ceremonial dances. And the reason I like that is that it builds emotionally. Right. Like. Nobody's going to cry at your cake. Cutting. It's just symbolic. Photo opportunity. They lie. That the ants want to see. Um, But hopefully if done well, people are really going to get emotionally involved in your toasts and that connection and that emotion can carry. Well into your first dance and people are just really feeling it at that point. So that's how I like to start the discussion. But. It may be that, uh, the caterer needs extra time before champagne or extra time to cut the cake. Uh, and those things need to be taken into account. Um, one of my favorite venues is nature's connection space and there. It just makes way more sense to do the toast behind the table. Then you go around the corner, cut the cake there, and then the couple keeps going. Uh, onto the dance floor, because you don't want a situation where your guests are asked to. Focus here. Focus here, focus back here, right? Like you just want it to kind of flow smoothly from a logistics standpoint. So there's a lot of considerations about how to do that. And then on East coast, it is very popular to do your first dance right after your grand entrance. It happens here too. Um, so that's another consideration. If a couple wants to do that. I don't love that. Yeah. I've gotten that a lot lately. I mean, obviously with Kobe, that's been trying to deal a little bit of different stuff on that, but I don't, I don't love that. I read thoughts about. Photographing stuff and D yep. For everything to be, or how do you, I mean, I don't even know what your thoughts are. You know how you relate to this? So, what do you think. So my big deal is. Um, the room and the space that we're in or the yard or whatever property that we're on really dictates how I can move about to capture those kinds of moments. And so it's really important for me to work very closely with the DJ during the reception, because if the DJ decides that we're going to go with no break in between, say cake, cutting and dances, but they're in different rooms. And I can't get from room to room B quick enough to capture that moment where dad starts crying at the beginning of the dance. Then I'm I'm at fault, you know? So it's really important to me to, to work with that DJ and the planner, especially during the reception and logistically talk about how we're going to make this work. I often tell couples to have their person that's toasting. Stand up by them by the table instead of in the audience somewhere, because then we're not dealing with wireless mics cutting out. And we're also, I can get a twofer. I can get that shot of dad with daughter crying right next to him kind of thing. So you can really feel the storyline. And so that's super important to me and generally. Um, it's really hard to convince people of these little tiny logistical things. They're like, well, why do you need five minutes in between this and this? And I'm like, well, we're in a really dark venue and I've got to move myself through a crowd of 200 people with my gear. So give me five, you know, That, that stuff really is stuff that nobody ever thinks about besides me and the DJ. And the planner. Of course the planner, Rebecca. I'm so sorry. Rebecca. What do you think about this? Yeah, that's all. I'll actually tell a personal story. This was one of the biggest learning curves. When I was just starting out as brand new wedding planner. It was actually a wedding at Kiana lodge. Which has several different locations. So you've got to move people from point a to point B to point C. So we moved everybody from, from ceremony, lawn to reception space. Great. No problem. Reception space. We were trying to move them to dancing space. And I got mom and dad. I got everybody that was important. I got them all moving, saying, okay. The dances are happening. Let's get moving. As the bride and groom are in their first dance, I'm starting to scan the room to get father of the bride ready for father daughter dance. He is not in the room. And I was like, Oh crap. And I was like, he was, he's just missed out on his daughter's first dance. And I could not find him. So we moved directly into cake cutting so that the rest of the guests could go ahead and like be engaged, still just made that call. And the father walks in and slams his hands on the DJ table and said, I am the f-ing father of the bride. Do not start without me. And that was such a huge learning curve for me. That was one of three weddings I've ever cried at, just because I'm like not, not in a good way. Um, and from there on out, it has really like, you constantly have to be prepared for the next thing. You don't start until you are ready for the next thing. And this is where, you know, experience again comes into play. You. As a planner, I am responsible for not only that couple. Also the guest experience, but also the entire vendor team. And we've touched on it a little bit. Like if that DJ is making the announcement, please be seated for dinner and caterings like, Oh crap. We didn't know that that was happening were not ready. Then that makes everybody look bad and it's a bad experience. So the timing is so imperative and that's why it's so important to have. Great vendor team one. That's knowledgeable. Knows what they're doing and just makes it a seamless day for the couple. Um, and in terms of flow, I agree both with why Alan and Irene were saying. Typically I do kind of go into toasts. At the last portion of dinner service to, again, let those that, especially if it's a buffet, let those that have gone through the buffet first and are starting to wrap up with thinner and might start to be bored. Um, It gives them something to look forward to. That's also where I leveraged my MC to say, Hey, can you give people a 15 minute heads up that this is coming next? So if you need to use the bathroom, now's the time to do it, et cetera. Um, so I typically move into toasts and then generally indicate cutting. First dance, father, daughter, mother, son. And then into open dancing. Um, but this is where you've really got to watch your timeline. You know, if you're losing your photographer and videographer at a certain point in the evening, and you're still wanting to do a anniversary dance, a bouquet toss, garter toss that could dictate when it happens in the evening. Like whether or not that's right away, right before open dancing or whether it can happen a little bit into open dancing. Um, it's just all about watching kind of. The timing and what you've paid your vendor team for and what you want to squeeze into the night. And then in addition to that, Alan kind of touched on it a little bit, but we. I worked with a lot of cultural weddings. I work with a lot of Asian ethnicity specifically, and there are different cultural elements that are brought into the date. Um, tea ceremonies are a big one. Chinese lion dancers are a big one. Um, so any, anything that couples wanting to incorporate into the day, if there's a specific time that it needs to happen based on that culture that also needs to be brought into account. Um, and then those East coasters, we gotta love him. They. They very, very much, you know, especially my Jewish couples or couples from New York, they are very used to dancing between each dinner course. So. You know, it's. It's all that stuff that we can try and talk them out of it until we're blue in the face and tell him why, why, why that we don't suggest this. Um, but they're going to, you know, and obviously it's their wedding, so we're going to do what they want and we're going to try and make it the best that we can. But, um, there's, there's just so many moving pieces that go into a timeline. Or like that. I mean, and I get some of the practicality, if you have like the multi-course dinner and you're like you toast, and then you do a course, and then you could all of a sudden. For the guests. That's the wonderful for your vendor team has tried to shovel. That's a little bit more challenging. Yes. Can I give you connect? Can I give one more tip in terms of this, this element of the day. Sometimes, like Rebecca mentioned and Kiana lodge. You'll be eating in one place and then you'll have dancing in the other. Am I doing that right on the screen? Um, so in that case, what I recommend is allow your guests to sit through toasts, do your toast there. And then if you're going to be taking everybody over for the first dance to another spot, Um, do your cake cutting in that other spot? Um, and I'm thinking of places like Robin's wood. Uh, gray bridge, the skin, Sonia are all a little bit like that. And if you do that, You have created a buffer with that cake cutting. Where if people are meandering a little bit. They are still going to get to see your first dance. They're still going to be there for that. Or kind of like a historic 16, 25. I feel sometimes like, they'll do tell us the way on the one side. And then they kind of, then a couple of goes and cuts the cake on the other side of the room so that everyone kind of like shifts their attention and then we all get up and go into the, I get it kind of. Transitions that way too. Yeah, I think that's a good. Keeping it not ping pong in your guests kind of around and figuring out what's going on. I think is, I think is good. My one, whenever we can do for order of operations. So they catering does not have to clean up the plates, um, during toes or right behind the couple, when they're doing their first dance, it would be awesome because it's always whatever. With no, it doesn't matter where it is. It's whatever table is right behind the couple during the first dance, they are picking up every single, big him up all the water Cubs speaking up every single man and Mike it's killer it's killer. Does everyone else know? Irene knows exactly what I'm talking about. Oh yeah. I might, can we just like have eyeballs for diesel Huggins? Like. Yeah. Well, this has been, um, this has been good. I don't know if there's any other specific Irene's got, I always got something. How do you handle the father of the bride or whoever that decides to give an hour long toes? Like how do we do. How do we fix those time? Sucks. That we can't account for. I think a lot of it comes down to it. You're like you're DJ Alan and, and your planner. Um, you know, it's my job to prep the couple, when I'm building their timeline, I always let them know. Okay. Typically it's around three to four toasters, typically here's who would give a toast. You want to be sure to communicate with them that toast should last. No more than two minutes. So I'm trying to give like, as much preemptive information to the couple as possible, but then I, I personally think a lot of it's on the. You know, DJ MC as well to kind of prep the couple on. And Alan, of course you can speak more to that. Well, I it's a challenge. You know, I've, I've sat there sometimes. And I'm like, God, I want to meet this God. He's the father of the bride. Um, but some of that is preemptive as well. So during dinner, in my case, I literally go to every person who's giving a toast. And I have worked with the photographer and the couple to identify the spot. We're toast are going to be, and yes, indeed. They should totally stand next to the people who they're toasting. I give them some techniques on how to hold a microphone notes and a drink and manage all of those three things with two hands. Um, and in doing so. I will talk to them sometimes about the content of their toast and they will see, okay. You're fourth of five. You know, and so I think there's some encouragement at that point, too. Keep it brisk. But. I, there was no great answer to what. And sometimes there's just no controlling it, you know? And it's like, well, we gotta let them do what they're going to do because obviously their family and it's important. But yeah, I mean, I. For me, it's a lot of the time of. Well, eight, eight ptosis a lot. So just trying to kind of talk them off the ledge, you know, and remind people that at times that can take upwards of six, seven, eight minutes. Times six people you're at 50 minutes at that point, you know? So it's just kind of reminding the couple, like time is a reality and you're taking an hour out of the day. For toast, when you could get into open dancing or you could get into, you know, sunset photos or whatever needs to happen next. Well, I think Alan would recommend to maybe some of those tests could be split on the rehearsal dinner, maybe just to kind of split it up. I mean, we have one. Uh, the, the six o'clock pitch-black ceremony, they also. Uh, I think we toasted for an hour and like 15 minutes. Yeah. I mean, I just, I can't, I can't express it like, you know, obviously when you're kind of in the moment and it's, you know, your mom or your dad or whoever, and I understand all that. But, I mean, it is like internal panic attack for me. Like the whole time I'm like we have where we have like, We went from shooting. You know, not a lot of footage all day. And now, like I have six times as much footage as I've had now. Like just in people toasting. In this room and yeah, it is. It's tough. It's tough to, you know, you don't want to cut them off. And, you know, I think not having open mic is a good place to start, you know? We would all agree that having a finite amount of people, you know, Hey, these four people are going to toast or these, you know, five people or whatever, you know, not doing the hay. Okay, who wants to who's else's got stuff. But yeah, I mean, it is. It's tough to read the room sometimes with that. And like I'm walking around. I go, man. Yeah, I can not be the only one that is like, we have been standing here for ever. Especially when it's inside jokes, like that's the worst you lose the entire room when it's just a joke that you, and you know, the bride, are you in the room? Are the only two that know, you know, and it's just like, Oh my gosh, this is so painful. You know, just keep it brisk. Keep it. You know, sweet and heartfelt, but move it along. Uh, Allen, I think I've, I think I've produced our next podcast. It would be wedding toasts do's and don'ts. That's a good, I think that's it. Can I guess, uh, that one, because I've got so many stories of bad toasts. We'll do the Redux. What I was going to say any way to, I was thinking we have to, we have to run this out here to see, and I actually have to go to get a COVID test because we have a, we are bride from last weekend, had a scare. So we are, I'm going to have to. Cut this one short so I can go, but I was just lamenting and all the things that we didn't talk about, you know, like, uh, I had suggested in the email about, you know, the number of, uh, how long you should schedule, like each. Uh, you know, set of family photos for all those kinds of things. So maybe we'll need to do a Redux of this. Anyway. I kind of creating the perfect wedding timeline part two a and then also the wedding toast using downs. But any other final thoughts on this before? I hate to kind of scurry off here at the end of this, but any other final thoughts before we go? I have a few. I'll go through them really quickly. I believe the ceremony should start. At the ceremony start time. It's become trendy to set, to put on the invitation for 15, or I'm sorry. Four o'clock. Are you being serious? I have had, um, I have had weddings where the invitation star time was four o'clock desk out there at three 30. They're sitting in the sun and yet nobody behind the scenes is working towards a four o'clock start time. They're all working towards for 15 because. That's what they read on some blog. And I think it's completely disrespectful to guests. Um, if you're five minutes late because things happen. Nobody has a problem with that. But work towards your start time, uh, in terms of creating your timeline, the difference between a buffet and a plated dinner. Is hugely significant. Um, the phase almost always are less than an hour. Uh, Plated meals, never less than an hour. Um, and adjust as I, uh, I think earlier we were talking about, um, Irene assumes a certain amount of time. Uh, if the caterer who's doing a plated meal, says an hour, I'm allocating least seventy-five minutes, maybe 90 for that. Um, and then one quick tip about your first dance. If you want to do one of those things where it's very. Uh, energetic and you've, you've, you're going to do a slow song and then bust out into a dance. And you want everybody to join in? Do parent dances first. Then drew your then do your, um, first dance. And then that leads right into open dancing. You've got a perfect transition. Yeah, it's hard to put the genie back in the bottle. The other way. Yes, sir. But did you like a first dance then? Energize? Okay. Now everyone goes, sit down. We're going to help you in a mom and dad come up. Yeah. One other note about the ceremony. Start time. Uh, with, we have live streamed, a lot of weddings this year. It is really, really important that you have your ceremony and whatever time you say it's going to be, especially if you're going to live stream it, because the people on the computer, they're not doing all the other stuff that you've been doing all day. And so they are definitely there at four o'clock or whatever. And we had one this summer and there was, it was kind of during that really limited time. So there was whatever 10 people or whatever. You know, it was like a really, really small amount. And there was like 80 people waiting on YouTube and I'm looking at the bride. I go, we gotta go here because there is the needs of the, of the mini here or are outweighing the needs of the field. I'm like, we gotta, we gotta get this move in. So. Uh, eh, Irene, uh, anything else? No. I'm good. That was awesome. It was get Rebecca final thoughts. Oh, gosh, so much better. Yeah. Why we get me really need to do another one of these, but yeah. Yeah, but I 100% agree about that ceremony start time and be sure that the actual ceremony start time is what's listed on your imitation as well. Don't do that 30 minute buffer of who I'm going to put three 30 on my imitation, but we're really going to start at four because then guests will show up at three and then those poor people are waiting for an hour. So just really think about the respect of your, of your guests that are putting their time and money and energy to come celebrate with you as well. Well, uh, we did it. We made the perfect wedding timeline today. So I want to thank you guys all for that. We're we're done now and no, but I do think we should do it well, we'll have to schedule another one that is, uh, th there's just so much that goes into it. And that even as we get going, I was like, Oh my God, you know, we're just, there's so much to get into. So, thank you guys all so much for sharing your expertise, Allen and Irene and Rebecca. Uh, I'll, you know, I'll put everybody's information on and I just appreciate it again. Rebecca thank you.

Episode 22 - Thinking Outside the “Summer Wedding”

This is kind of one of our go-to round tables for a lot of this sort of stuff. I think the last time we were all together was the, um, Some of the big regulations came out or something. And it was like, you know, whether we going to do, uh, but thank you guys all so much for coming on. Um, we were kind of trying to brainstorm this before we started recording and about how we want to focus this today. And I think that the topic we came up with was. Thinking outside the summer wedding. And I think, um, you know, as we're moving, it's, it's end of October now and moving into fall, um, you know, and Kelly made a great point that a lot of the weddings next year, you know, dates and availabilities and things, you know, are getting really slim. So we want to try to figure out the best way. Tips and tricks. If you're going to get married inside, it may be like off peak. You know, that that may June, July, August. Months. You know, tips and things that you can do from a venue, from a planner and from a photographer's perspective about kind of maximizing that. So, thank you guys all so much for coming on. Uh, Kelly, why don't you introduce yourself? And then we'll go around. You say Kelly is Kelly Blair and I am the manager. Down at historic 16, 25 a event venue. In Tacoma. And Cali. [unknown] sorry. Kelly and McQuilkin, which is an events I'm located out of the summer Lake Tapps area. And we service. South Puget sound. Awesome. And Rebecca, how about you? Hi, I'm Rebecca with Rebecca Jane photography and. I'm a wedding photographer and we service the SAS area. We're based out of somewhere Auburn area. And just at first, I've just kind of general check-in how's everyone doing? That's been a while since we've all kinda been on, um, you know, we've been bit. Fits and spurts kind of getting everybody on the podcast in these round tables, the last couple of months. Rebecca, how are you guys doing how's everything going with everything? Just kind of general. Check-in. I'm going slow over here. We're doing okay. We're shaking over there. We're fortunate as one of the vendors he doesn't have happened. Overhead costs. So we're able to keep going and keep trucking along. We're doing pretty good. We're hanging in there. We're excited for next year. Fingers crossed. Yes. Yes I am. Kelly. What about you? Oh, we're doing good. We have pivoted that word. Um, we have, uh, opened up. Elopements at the Kelly farm. And Laurel Creek. So we're kind of doing kind of that all-inclusive, um, ceremony. That includes a photographer. Right. Rebecca. And then we have, um, an officiant. And we also have all, and then we also have flowers and the venue and music. So it's nice. So we've been able to kind of fill our calendar. With with those. So we're excited and we're still booking into 2021 right now. So it's just working on our past clients that we've moved and new clients that we have moving forward. And Kelly, what about you? And I am kind of excited to get your take on all this today, just as an indoor venue that, uh, for better, I think kind of it's you kind of get the same all year, right? I mean, you really know what to expect, and I want to focus on some of those benefits today as well, but, um, how's everything going for you? Good. I mean, I'm thankful to be working. All this craziness and keep a routine, I think has kept me just saying personally, um, being an indoor venue, we use stay busy year round. So generally our calendar has been. A fun little task. I feel like our first big wave of rescheduling is kind of been all settled, kind of in our rear view. The last couple weeks, I've really seen a change in people starting to wedding plan, people actively booking for the future. So it's been nice. Just kind of get back into the normal routine. And like this weekend we have two events and kind of moving forward for the rest of the year. It seems like we're back to a little bit of what normal. So we can, obviously things have been tailored down scale wise. You're trying to enjoy the quiet. If you want to tell him myself, Hey, normally this is the time where you're like pulling your hair out. You're not sleeping. You haven't seen your friends in months. You, you know, It's that time where you're living off of diet Coke and caffeine. And so I've been trying to just personally tell myself, like, enjoy the quiet, because it's going to be like zero to a hundred, whatever the flood Gates open. So. Um, I've been trying to enjoy it, but I do miss the craziness. I never thought I'd say, Oh yeah, I. I miss doing weddings. I miss the craziness of wedding, even if it means no sleep. So. Absolutely. Yeah. That's a good point, too, just in talking about, you know, shifting the calendars and again, part of the podcast today and thinking that and maximizing those off-peak things. Yeah. I don't like people that are like the inquiry brags of call. I got all these inquiries, whoever I it's I've had like five August 7th and like the last week, I really weird for us for, you know, for video and to get that, like, if people are, if you are engaged, Dorothy's friend just got engaged, they're trying to figure out what to do. If they want to do something small this year, you know, wait, do the whole thing. If you are thinking about getting married in, in next summer peak dates. It is they're going quick. And so that is recommendations for planners and venues and photographers and everybody. But if you are listening and you are even at all thinking about the 20, 22 or 2021, so I'm all screwed up. I followed the XFL and everything's supposed to be twins. So my summers are all off, but, uh, yeah. So if you're looking for that, so anyway, so, um, first off, you know, what do you guys think. W w when we talk about like, you know, like off season, like off summer, what comes to mind for you guys? Cause, cause I know I have certain thoughts about that. Um, and Kelly, maybe we'll go to you first. What do you think about, um, you know, like that off summer? Uh, what comes to mind? I mean. I would say you have more consistency and off season, um, summer gives you options to have indoor outdoor ceremonies. All of those things, when we get into the out. You know, kind of the fall through mid spring. The real reality is, is that everything's going to be inside. So I would say it takes a level of stress off of some of the couples that they're never wavering back and forth. Whether I can have. The ceremony inside, outside pictures, inside, outside. And so it's cutting. It kind of gives that kind of confirmation right at the beginning to say, this is what we're going to do. And here's the plan and go from there. Um, so I mean, and winter weddings, there's some perks there's your off season. So sometimes depending upon the vendor you have off season the rates, which is nice. It'll save you some cash. Um, and you know, also Haas. I would say hotels or a lot less expensive in those off months. So if you are planning a, you know, a hotel wedding, It might be less expensive for your guests to come in and stay maybe the full weekend, rather than just coming in on one day during the summer when it's, you know, the highest, highest rates on those things. So. And that Rebecca, what about you? Um, first thing that comes to mind for me from a photographer's perspective is lining. Um, winter weddings are, can be a challenge because of lightening. I mean we're daylight savings. Time is happening this weekend, where the sun's going to be setting apps for 45, you know, four 30. Um, a lot of people plan their wedding ceremonies to be around five o'clock. Um, and so the first thing, and the biggest thing that happens for me is people start to plan out their timelines and they don't necessarily think about that because generally it for a winter wedding, somebody starting to think about their timeline. In the summer, you know, they're, they're thinking, okay. I have a few months before my wedding. Let me start with tiny on my timeline. I don't think, let me take the sunset time. And so they they'll send me a, sort of a rough draft of their timeline and I'll take a look at it and I'll see that they planned their ceremony at five, and then they want to do their formal photos after. And I'll have to come back to them and say, Hey guys, the song's going to be set there. We're not going to be able to go outside. If we have good weather. Um, so then they have to revamp their timelines. So, um, a big thing to think about is timing. Um, if you're doing a winter wedding, You're going to want to do a first look. And, um, yeah. First looks are great. First looks are fantastic. They give you more time together on your wedding day. Um, and then give you more time with her guests after your ceremony, because you're not having to go be pulled away for an hour to do photos. Yeah, I totally agree with that. I think. First and foremost, shifting that timeline. Either during the summer, our normal timeline is like noon to 10 or like 11 to nine. And it just doesn't work in these winter weddings. And it's like, I think Rebecca, that's a great point. You said that people start planning these weddings. Not in the winter. And so then they just, you don't think about that. And our wedding on Saturday, it was a perfect example and it was, they wanted it to be, it was Halloween themed, you know, lots of decorations, lots of, you know, she had a black veil, all these things, but their ceremony was at six o'clock outside. I'm like this like deck area overlooking the river. And it was pitch black. It was pitch black. And I understand that they wanted like the moody dark evening thing, but it was pitch black. You could not see anything at all. I mean, you might as well have been any literally anywhere in the world, right. It would have been the same. And so, yeah, I think if we had shifted because we still show up at noon. And shifted that, you know, maybe 10 do the ceremony at three. I think it's a totally different world. So I think that that's a great point. We'll talk more about that. Uh, Kelly, what do you think about this? When you hear about the off-season weddings? Isn't doesn't really exist for me, I guess. So I always kind of like chuckle. Everyone's like, Oh yeah, come. Like in a normal world, like I'm such. Aaron's like, Oh, now that wedding season is over let's network. Let's talk. And I'm like, we are in the thick of our busy season. So to me, this off season has always been kind of ironic to me, just working on an indoor basis. Um, Our pricing used to be the same year round. Just being an indoor venue. We kept it the same because we stayed busy. Since then we've kind of broken up. Just try to make that off season more busy, I guess. Um, and so I think our take on it is just a little bit differently, just we're in a controlled environment. And because of that, we're able to stay busy year round. Um, pricing fluctuate, salmon, January and February is a little bit slower for us, I guess. Um, We're not doing three, four weekend. We're doing, you know, two, maybe three weekends during January, February. So it's hard to say, like I just never feel like it really is an off season. Um, because then in turn as a venue, the off season of January, February is engagement season, which translates to booking season for us. And so. Um, I don't. Yeah, so off season to me. Functioning year round. Go, go, go. Talk about that when you're, when you're touring with couples and they're looking at your venue as an indoor venue. Yeah. I can imagine if you're trying to show a venue and it's. Well, if the sun's over here or if it's raining or if it's this, if it's that talk about just as an inner venue with couples touring. And like you said, just knowing these things are going to kind of be the way they are and is that reassuring to them? What kinds of, you know, when you tour and you show, I know you showed the venue and you have other people that showed the venue. What is that experience like as an indoor venue? Yeah. Usually we just try and get an idea of like their vision or what they're wanting. Most people don't really know what they want. They just think of like, Stereotypical ideas of what they want and when their wedding day. Um, and I think as we just show them around. Then start to ask questions. And then usually when we start to get to those little details is when they're like, all right, what does your availability look like? Like we want to know. This is kind of like start the calls are booked right now, or we can look into this month or whatnot. And then that's when we kind of talked about this conversation is about shifting things. A lot of people are just looking for the right venue. And then adopting their wedding to fit that venue is typically what I get. Um, I mean, there is a small group, if you're like, Nope, we're getting married in the summer on a Saturday, or it has to either state. And I'm frankly, it just doesn't work out because of that. Um, but a lot of people will come in and they'll be like, yeah, we're getting married on August Saturday and they leave and they've booked. Uh, February. February Saturday or every Sunday. Um, Cause I think just being able to tell them like, exactly what timeline might look like, what weather might look like. And for them, I think it's all about the visuals. And obviously Rebecca can talk about this, but it's really the photo ops and photo opportunities onsite offsite. What does it look like if we're in a traditional downpour, Washington rainy day? And it's like, I have a couple of photo albums and like we'll flip through them and I can like recall like the months and stuff of what they were taken. And you would never know that these two photos right next to each other, right. It's like a flood. Um, and so I think just trying to give them that reassurance and just kind of talk through things and mostly just painting the picture that whether it's 90 degrees or negative 19 and snowing, like once we're endure. We're going to be in a controlled environment and you're going to be able to have, you know, a beautiful celebration, no matter what's going on outside, you know exactly what's going to happen inside and not just immediately takes off. So much stress, like the AC will be cranking in the summer if we need it, or the heat from Ukraine. And the fall-winter as needed. Um, and so I think just knowing that that's something that's made control, no matter what just is such a huge relief for those planning. And then they just kind of look at, okay, what dates work or what does this place work for us? And then we go from there. Yeah, I still remember. We had a, I wouldn't even know if you were at historic. Yeah, I had a wedding years ago. It was like Alexis and Joe. And then. Uh, it was. That was that's Kelly's first, second wedding right there. Year and a year. Wasn't it. 2016. Or was it 2015? It was 2016. Yeah. And, uh, they butt. It was like crazy October. They predicted it was like the wind storm of the century that everybody was going to lose power and all those, but then I, it didn't matter. Right. You were inside that wouldn't have, you wouldn't have known, you know, it doesn't matter. Right. Because you're kind of just, it. The world could go on and whatever, and it's just a benefit of that. Uh, Rebecca, I want to talk about it when couples. Your book, you for a, for a, you know, a winter and off season wedding. Are they realistic about like the photos they're going to be able to get. You know, with you, are you like in terms of, you know, lighting and being outside and things like that, or is that, are those conversations you'd have to have to kind of educate them more? It's 50 50. Um, I have some couples who. They're like, I know it might rain. I totally understand. I trust. Like your professional opinion on where we should do photos and how we should handle our photos. And then I have some couples who are like, You know? Oh no, it's raining. I can't believe it's raining today. And it's, it's December 3rd and you're like, well, it's Washington. It rains in December. So, um, You know, sometimes I do have to, I do have that conversation with my clients about like, Hey, if it's raining, You know, Think about your indoor options? Um, that's another reason for doing the first look. Um, because a lot of the times I have had couples who have opted not to do a first look in the winter. And then after their ceremony, Um, maybe there's a room full of happening. All of their guests are mingling cocktail. And then at the same time, we're trying to do their formal photos. On another wall in the venue. And depending on your venue, you may not have space for all of us to be happening at the same time. Um, So it really kind of just depends on like where their venue is. Um, For example at historic, they have so much space. It's huge. We really, it doesn't ha. It's not a problem. We don't run into any issues there. Um, a smaller venue where everything's happening in one room. We might have issues. So, um, I always encourage people to do the first book. Do all your photos first, that way. Your guests aren't there. We don't have, um, catering trying to flip a room. And, um, it works out great. And I mean, nine times out of 10, the weather clears up at some point we're able to go outside and get some photos outside. So, um, I always also encourage my couples to just like being. Um, It's just like, relax. Don't don't let the weather bother. You will get something it'll happen. Um, even if it's an umbrella and Orain shot. Um, and I mean, I'm sure you guys have seen my rain shots. Like I'll pull it off. I'll make it happen. It'll be awesome. And you'll have this like amazing, you know, Photo from your wedding, even if it's raining. So. Yeah, no. I remember, uh, we had, uh, Andrea and Jeff at, uh, and I think that was a Cali wedding too. And we were at, and they have that. We have the wonderful rated shots outside at Kelly farm. Um, that that's the thing with the first look and, and I just think it's so worth being said again, in these w with the shorter days in the darkness. And being able to do a first look and people think like, well, you know, why do I want to do that? I want to have the first look at the ceremony. That's what I've always envisioned it. And I absolutely get that. And it's, it's super emotional and it's still going to be emotional, even if you've had a first look, you know, for photos and then you're still going to be in the ceremony stuff, but. Were you able to do that first look in, in Rebecca. Would agree is then you can get like all those other photos done, like everything, like as opposed to do, doing the peekaboo game where you don't see each other all day and you're running around and doing all this stuff. You can see each other, you can do your portraits, you can do all your bridal party stuff. You can do all the family stuff because what ends up happening. And we all know this is like, If you don't do the first, like maybe you do try to do okay. Let's do the guys' photos and then let's do the girls' photos and let's do like her family or his family or whoever. You always end up forgetting one or you always end up having to redo part of, um, it never really saves that. I mean, it, it it's, it's a benefit. Right. But they never really saves that much time. And so just, just being able to do that, uh, Kelly. What do you think about that? And then I have a follow-up from a planner, but what do you think about the whole doing the first look in terms of you and in building the day for your couples? Yeah. You know, when I hear a couple that doesn't want to do a first look, you know, the first thing I ask is why, like, what's the real reason behind the first luck or not doing a first look and, you know, It runs the gamut and when they, and. Then I tried to explain, like, if you don't do this, here's X, Y, and Z, it's going to happen. You're going to miss this part, this part, this part, this part, this part, your guests are going to be waiting. Extended periods of times go cocktail hour runs a lot longer. Um, you run the risk of lighting being a complete issue because if you do. On an average Saturday night, five o'clock ceremony. By then it's already dark. So your guests are coming in and when it's dark. So it's just, it prolongs the whole thing. And you know, there are some brides that are like, adamant about no. This is we're doing. And I say, okay, well your trade off. Is it a really great photos. Or are you seeing your, you know, your fiance at the end of the aisle? And I said, you know, you got to give them, those are the two options, but at least giving them all the information as to why the reason why. Um, but I would say like, going back to Rebecca had said something about. Some couples are just, they freak out when it starts to rain, but that's also a Testament to hiring a professional and for hiring professionals for your wedding, who can really be like shift on a quick dime. And knowing what to do, you know, and not, you know, like Rebecca, your rain shots are gorgeous, but like that's a skill to itself. It's not something that you can just pull off one day, not practicing. And so you don't really want to have. Being in a lot of practice. Yeah. And so for couples that, you know, and that's one of the reasons you hire professionals, because you can have that shift quickly and to have it looked like you executed that on purpose. So. Um, I would say also, you know, and, and part of the planning too is asking couples, do they want to do an early, if they don't want to see each other until afterwards, or if they want those, you know, Sunset photos at four o'clock in the afternoon. Then they're going to have to do an earlier ceremony and they're going to end a little, they're going to end it earlier. That's just, what's going to happen. So, you know, I think it's. Informing the clients as to the reason why we do these things. Not because we want to like shift their whole vision of their wedding, but just to give them a reason behind it. Yeah, I think that's, that's a great point is, and this is something that I've really dealt with a lot this year with, um, just different circumstances. And we've had a lot of like live streams and things where it's been a lot of like give and take and, you know, we they're perfect example on Saturday we were on Sunday, we were doing this ceremony. And the bride had PA ended up picking some, some music and it wasn't working with the live stream. And it was, it was one of those things that we were getting these copyright issues. And, you know, we're trying to talk with the dad. Um, and we're seeing like, you know, here, you know, we can do this or we can do that. Right. And like there's pros and cons to both. And like, we can either. Not use that music and then it's going to be fine and it's going to go on, or we can keep using that music and we're going to risk YouTube, like cutting off, like you're going to lose, you know, you got 80 people on the stream. You're going to lose this stream. And trying to like pro and combat. And like Kelly said, you know, it's not. Telling people like, you know, what to do or what they can't do, or like dictating the vision of the wedding, but there's just there's gives and takes to everything and especially moving into this year. And I think everyone's realized, you know, kind of what we thought was going to be, you're not going to be in, and it's, it's really shifting times, but yeah, I think that's a great point. Just not. Not dictating, but giving options and saying like, why, why things are the way they are or why they're not going to be that way. Right. Does that make sense? Yeah. Kelly. When people reach out to you to plan a wedding that you know is going to be in the off season. Are there certain considerations you take into mind or do you ask them different things than you would someone that was getting married in August? I mean, yeah. I asked, you know, what. You know, first and foremost, like what time of the ceremony are we going to go for? Are we going for an evening event? Are we going for a daytime event? Um, because in the off season I find that it's like, I have done quite a few brunch or lunch ceremonies and receptions where, you know, at Peter's out in about six or seven o'clock that night. And then, you know, the couple either has an extended party, which we have seen and it's, you know, a non ceremonial piece. Um, but those are the kinds of things then, you know, if they decide to do an evening event, which is probably most typical, then we're asking them, okay, great. Well, you're probably gonna have to start a little earlier because we're going to be able to have to do photos earlier, which also extends the time for photos and then, you know, and video. I mean, realistically, those are the two things are in makeup starts a lot earlier. And so just asking the question of. You know, here's again, the trade off. What if you want these things? This is what we're going to have to do to accommodate your request. Um, and I would say the ceremony obviously for inside is a lot easier because we have a general idea, but. There's some venues that indoor ceremony. And an indoor reception call for a flip. So depending upon the venue itself, Where all those people are going to go during that flip time. And so sometimes it means that we have to rent an extra tent just to accommodate a cocktail hour, maybe out on an outdoor patio, um, to, in order to do the flip. Depending on. I would say, you know, there's a lot of variables, you know, guest count has lot to do with it and those kinds of things. Um, but you know that also. Can be more costly than. You know, a venue where you can do everything in one space without having to rent a tent to, so I said, I think there's pros and cons to all, um, All spaces. And I think that, like, those are the questions we ask ahead of time, too. Kelly as a venue in, in dealing with those timelines and those shifting timelines, if it needs to be earlier or later, you know, accommodating those in venue rentals and all of that. How does that work from your guys? Is, is it, you know, like you have a, for six hours or how, how does that, I have no idea. Yeah, so we include 10 hours of time in our rentals. Um, and then the couples can choose how they use that between noon and 1:00 AM. Um, the noon start time. Sometimes we can be flexible on, but from our end, you know, we have people here til 1:00 AM on Saturday. We then have to clean it, get it flipped, reorganized, ready to go. We need that time here. Um, Uh, speaking like winter wise, a lot of people always come into wedding planning, thinking. You know, Paradise. The party of the year, a lot of times, Like in her head, it's like, Oh yeah, we're going to go to 1:00 AM. And then a lot of times we see like those winter couples, all of a sudden it's like, can we actually do noon to 10? And they've become more realistic or kind of settled in. Um, I feel like. With us, like Kelly was just saying about having to flip and whatnot. Our setup is pretty streamlined, easy going there's ample space weather. You know, year round, you get what you get. And for that reason, I mean, I love winter weddings, fall weddings. They work seamlessly. Which I know is a lot of a challenge that a lot of vendors have other places it's like, okay, How are the guests? We gotta get everyone out. And for us it's like sometimes we're just moving chairs and chef led people to the next room and all is good. Um, but timeline wise, we're pretty flexible and we give them ample of time. A lot of times our couples days starts. At a hotel or a salon or somewhere else getting ready. That piece typically isn't done here. Um, but noon as usually as early as we really ever. Yeah. Cause it's certainly with your guys's venue, you could do. I mean, there there's the Murano and there's the, I can't remember the one that sounded the waterfront there, but you know, Silver cloud. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's plenty of options where you could, if you need. Earlier start time. You know that you could do that, getting ready piece offsite, and then come on. And, you know, we can always shift our time. It just means our setup steps getting here at four instead of five and things just kind of get a little bit, so usually during bedtime, someone's in the building. Day, like 24 hours. Because, you know, someone's here, which people don't think about, like what happens between the weddings, but that's kind of, if I'm chaos, Uh, like I want to talk a little bit about, you know, ceremony and benefits to, to do in the indoor. I know from a video perspective, at least for us, you know, We're really trying to document the ceremony. Right? I mean, at the end of the day, you guys are getting, you know, like the artsy stuff and you know, the big, all the, you know, if we can get, you know, a couple of angles, if we can hear everything, if we can see everything for video, right. That's what we. And so I actually really liked the indoor slash you know, we know what the lighting is going to look like. We're not going to have, you know, trucks driving by making weird sounds. We're not going to have, you know, the wind, whatever. Um, Talk about things maybe that you like about having indoor ceremonies and then maybe things that are challenging and how you do too. You know, combat that. Um, I'll start with the challenges, I guess. Um, I mean, lighting can be a challenge just depending on the venue, darker venues, um, with, you know, dark walls, dark ceilings. Um, and then especially a lot of people with winter weddings, they kind of envisioned this. Um, candle lit damn, um, twinkly light. Uh, ceremony, which sounds very beautiful and it looks very beautiful, beautiful to the naked eye, but it translates differently on as you know, on video and in photos. Um, so it can be a challenge sometimes to try to sort of talk to your clients a little bit about the realistic expectations of what their photos and their videos going to look like. If they. Or in a dark room. With. All the candle. It only, um, and, and I tell my clients, I'm like, you know, at the end of the day, this is your wedding. I want it to feel the way that you want it to feel. And I can work with. Being in a dark room. Uh, it doesn't scare me. It's not an issue. It just means their photos are probably going to be a little bit darker. Um, same goes for video. It means there. Video's going to be a little bit darker. Um, and it's not an issue I can bring in lights and I can light them. And I'll talk to them a little bit about that as well. Um, if they want me to. You know if they're okay with me putting a flash on a stand in a corner to light for photos that I need. Um, and most couples are totally fine with that because it's not a continuous light. It's just a flash every so often. And most people don't even really notice it. Um, And so that would be kind of the main challenge, but I've been doing this for so long that it doesn't even phase me anymore at this point. Um, The benefit really? Is kind of the same thing as the lighting. It is controlled. Um, I've done weddings in the summer where the sun is blaring and because of the direction of ceremony. You have the groom. Completely, you know, blinded by the sun. His eyes can even open. So squinty and he's just so lit. But then the bride is in complete shade. And there's really nothing I can do about that at all. It just, it is what it is. I can't, there's no amount of light I can put on the bride to make her match the groom and the blaring side. And there's just really nothing that can be done except for change the whole direction of the ceremony, which generally isn't even an option. So, um, You have copy of your. You're equal. You know, challenges and benefits to both. Um, but I, I kind of do prefer the indoor ceremony because. I don't have to worry about the sun deciding to do its own thing. I just know what it is. It is what it is. And I can get myself set for it. And I don't have to worry about things changing. Yeah, that's such a great point and two with where the ceremonies are. Um, I remember, and I won't, uh, Throw him under the bus. There, there was a venue. Up North and they, I never been there before and it was. They have this, uh, beautiful. You know, you're looking at this mountain and it's the ceremony with everybody, but it literally couldn't be in the worst spot in terms of light. Right. Because you're going to do it basically like any time from three to eight o'clock that you would want to do the ceremony. The sun is. Just quieting their body. I mean, display you can't, you couldn't see anything right. And you know, all the, a lot of these venues set up, Oh, you know, look at this beautiful ceremony space, but there's never going to be a good time. That that's going to look well lit. Right? You're always going to have the sun or the trees or casting shadow where the arch is casting a shadow where this stuff, but that's not. And so it is really nice in those indoor weddings and you know, you like, you have the focal point or like, I know it historic, you know, you people. Like, you know, the stuff on the wall or the arches, or kind of whatever, and you can, you can make your own focal point and then. Accentuate that with the lighting? Uh, I think it was really nice. The other funny thing is, uh, talking about the candle it's stuff. We've had those where they're like, it's going to be all and you're like, no one is going to see anything. This is going to look really terrible. And then you always have like grandma off in the corner. That's got her flash going. So we had one where it was, um, They didn't want, they didn't want any flash. They didn't want the photographer to use flash. We weren't going to use like, cause they wanted to create this ambiance, which is fine. And then, but then you have like all these family members with like iPhones and stuff and we're like, no, You know, it's it's solely and it just, it looks, it looks challenging too. Uh, Kelly, any thoughts about this so far? I don't have a good question for you yet. I'm working on it. Me. Golly. Oh for me. Oh, Yeah. Kelly for ceremony, staff and, and benefits and things. I didn't have a good follow-up question. I just figured that tossed to you. Oh gosh. No. So I would say. This is kind of just comes down to ceremony, but this also comes down to photos too. So like for us, Like, I always make sure that the ceremony is done first. As far as the decor goes. I can help it. If it is raining or the outside is not so good and they have to come inside to do photos or any of those things. Like I, we move I'm. I make sure that it's done so that way, like Rebecca can come in, take family. Portraits, even if it's just in front of the Arbor or wherever that's going to be. Um, but you know, for, from a lighting perspective, I would say. That is one conversation that I have, we do have the couples cause trust me in my perfect head of heads. When I wanted to get married, I wanted to get married at, in the dark. And I wanted to have really like beautiful mood lighting and all of these things. And then the real reality is, is I got married in August and the spend doesn't set until like nine o'clock. So real reality, unless I wanted to start like an evening wedding, that didn't work. So that was like, when I first started, I was like, Oh yeah, duh, you can't have that. So those are things and just letting couples know that too is just like, you want to have, there's a certain look, but there's also a certain way you want your photos to be. And I would say that there's also from a planning perspective. Changing lighting in the middle of all the, you know, The video and photography. Throws you guys off. Cause you have to readjust all of your stuff and everything. So like a lot of times I won't change lighting. And a space until pretty much after the formal dances, because once the formal dances are set, then we're, we're ready to go. So I don't know if that's, I don't know. I always find that that's helpful for you guys that you don't have to like switch gears right. In the middle of all of it too, but we know that they want, it wants to be romantic, but there's certain way that we have to start. Help every, all the vendors do their job, the best that they can do. Do you as kind of that emotional support as the planner, like you had said you had a vision, you know, for your wedding and then, you know, shifting things. Are you, how does that go when you're working with your couples? And like you said, maybe they were going to get like with COVID stuff, you know, maybe they get married this August, and now they're looking at, you know, I different date. That's going to be not. You know what it was originally going to be, or the vision. How do you work with that and shift, maybe those expectations and everything. You know, I think honesty is probably the best piece and a lot of couples. And I will say I have three couples this year that, you know, right. They were in the middle of that whole no weddings zone. So what was that? April? So I had had one couple, and she had just got home from her bachelorette party in California and got off the flight and found out she couldn't do her wedding. And she was like, obviously distraught and, you know, having that conversation to be like, Hey, I know that we're supposed to have your wedding and like, Within the next two weeks, but that's not gonna happen. Sometimes it's just a matter of saying I'm sorry. And giving them options, but not expecting. An answer right away, because a lot of you have to process. And I feel like if the shock factor. It's sort of like what standing everyone thinks it costs this much. And then it ends up costing this much as that first shock. Everyone kind of goes, Oh, and then they backed up. And then I think about it and then they can come move forward and keep moving, you know, checking on. So I would say that like part of our job is just being really honest about what we can do. And then how can we help them, you know, have a have a shift and they may not like it at first, but there they will. A lot of, all of my couples have come back and go. Okay. You're right. Um, this is your right. We just needed to think about it. We needed to go through it. And I think with, even with all of us, we all had expectations going into this year about how it's going to look like. And we all had to shift too. So, you know, also remembering that it's not just us and not just them too. So I would say just. Time is probably time and options are the best way to approach couples these during this time. Uh, Kelly, you're obviously on that side of the things too, with, with shifting dates and reschedules and stuff. How does that go? And I know that you I'm sure have a lot of different stuff, but, you know, in terms of moving Weddington, In trying to, um, settle those nerves or settle those, you know, uh, worried thoughts. Um, It's always a difficult conversation to have. Like, I just it's getting easier I guess, but it just always feels like. I feel like I'm Dillard. Delivering like this huge disappointment, like. These people have looked to the state for like their whole entire life. And I'm like, Hey, sorry. Like, It can't happen. How you dream, this is what we can do. Like what do you want to do? It's an awful conversation to be having. Like, I hate it. Like, I don't know if anyone else feels like that, but it's just like, You're just delivering disappointing news, which is a task that is never easy. And so usually I just kind of like, you know, just start the conversation and usually that initial conversation, I just know it's gonna be shock value. It's me the follow-up conversation that happens in like a week where usually we get down to the nitty gritty and really talk through things. Um, and I think just being understanding. Um, just reassuring them, like, Hey, like, We're going to take care of you just have faith and kind of your vendor team. Like I know this is a bummer, but we're still going to have a great celebration. Um, and then just kind of talking through the options and just kind of the painting, the picture of what can, can happen. What can be. All of that kind of stuff. I don't know. I just feel like I've become like a therapist this year. Like part-time sort of, um, but I just think that anytime, like, I just feel like part of being in the wedding industry, it's like you get the clients that come to you and really they've only thought of their wedding at like the surface level. Like, what is this going to look like? Like the pretty visual, like once we, my mantle piece, like my canvas photo on my mantle, what is that going to look like? And I don't think of like all the logistical little pieces. And so like the lighting. What the venue looks like timing, all that. I think they're just like, I know this is what I like, make it happen. This is what I want. But it's like, if you want bright, white, natural light, natural photos, pastoral look, and then you book a brick. Venue, like you kinda gotta tailor that. Um, and so I think really just navigating. You know, this year versus other years, it's really just taking what your client wants. Kind of. You know, saying, Oh yeah. Like we're going to make that happen, but kind of being realistic with it. And getting them to like that happy medium, where they're still getting what they want. They just don't realize that it's a little bit altered than I first thought, I guess, if that makes sense. Um, I think Springfield has come to us with the end product that they want and don't realize. How much it actually takes to get there. So bright, white, natural. Looking photos in a dark venue like this, like Rebecca, you know, like. Yeah. You're surrounded by Brown when you want to be surrounded by bright white. So. Yeah. It's definitely tough. And we just apply this on podcasts. And then the episode that we have posted this week, I think we call it grieving your wedding, but. Uh, we had a talk with Alan and Ann Marie who's in the officiant. And then Jenny Gigi about kind of this whole thing. And if anyone's listening, you know, vendor and couple. I thought it was really nice. Just really, it's just been a lot for everybody this year. And from every side of, you know, from people planning and people that got married and didn't get married and in the vendors and everything. And so I thought we had a really good, I mean, there was no really like, answers to come from it, you know, but it was a nice little, I thought it was a good discussion about, uh, just grieving the different losses and emotions and everything that everyone's going through. Um, Rebecca for you, and to round out this, this topic for your couples, if you've had people have to shift and, and maybe even change venues or, you know, change time of year, anything like that, how have you gone through that process with them and, and, you know, Working through their expectations of what to expect from their photos and their day. You know, I've had it. Honestly, most of my couples have either. Capsular date and eloped. Or moved to the same time of year for next year. So really I haven't had to deal with a lot of that. Um, I mean, I have had to deal with a little bit of. Um, I mean, I guess on the same sort of topic of like shifting and. Managing expectations for what your photos are going to look like. Um, I have had clients who've shown me like their Pinterest board and they said, Oh, this is like, what I envisioned my weddings look like, and this is what I'm thinking. Um, And it's just completely. Opposite of. My photography style. The venue that they booked. Um, you know, and I, and I'm kind of, I have to have that conversation. A cup maybe once or twice a year. I'm with a client saying, Hey, like, You're showing me photos that are very dark and moody and that's very opposite of my photo. Farfisa style. Maybe we need to have a conversation about. I'm looking at other photographers because I can't shift my style to match. What you're showing me here. Um, and so, I mean, I've had, I've had conversations like that. Um, But for as far as like people having to shift for COVID and, um, move their weddings. I'm really having. Had any. Problems. It's all been elopements. Um, which, I mean, I guess there has been a little bit of a shift in what to expect. The Loehmann's because we're not getting. Those were not getting the same, getting ready photos. And we're not getting the same ceremony photos, because there's only 15 people, um, at your ceremony and we're not. So it's like, it's been a little bit, um, definitely different this year. Um, but it's. Been really nice too. I feel like the shift has almost been. Like a welcomed. Sort of feel to weddings because it's very intimate and it's, um, it's very relaxed and calm and you're not dealing with a hundred people and chaos and stress and. Running behind schedule and we have so much to do. And so many pieces that are going into it because it's just kind of simplified the process, which at the end of the day, I think is kind of what weddings. Are sort of supposed to be, they're not supposed to be stressful and chaotic and. And crazy and, Oh my gosh, we're relate. And you know, we have all this stuff going on and they're, they're supposed to be about the. You know, the coming together of two people and your closest friends and family. So. Uh, it's interesting. You were talking about. Yeah. The shifting or not shifting the dates. Uh, Kelly. I want to talk with you as a planner and there's no right or wrong. And there's no, it's just more interesting to me. I mean, there's no. Answer necessarily to this, but the idea that, because we're the same way, like, you know, half of our couples. So like, alright, you know, August 8th, this year. August 7th, next year we want the same thing. And then the other ones were like, you know, screw this. We're going to elope or we're moving. You know, we have like an August, our August 1st is going to be, I mean, you know, fingers crossed. It's going to be in February and they're just totally changing everything. And it's just so interesting to me how, like some people are just. No, that is what I want. Just with a 21 on the end and a 2020, and then the other ones are totally willing to. I mean, what are your thoughts on that? I mean, and I know there's a million different reasons why people want to get married or not, but just where, like, it seems like half of them are wanting to do it this way and half the other way. And what do you think about that? Yeah. I mean this last year, I mean, it's, it's been cool to watch everybody's stories. I mean, and this is where the real life comes from and where you see true, you know, like who of these couples are as couples. Um, and a lot of like, we've had quite a few couples get married this year on the date that they had. And it was whatever parameters that we were given, whatever mandates we were in and, you know, whether it was 10, five, whatever it was on. I don't think zoom, we didn't do any zoom, weddings. Um, but every single one of those couples, less their wedding on such a high, and I'm such like a. Like, this was perfect. This is exactly what we wanted. We didn't realize that this is, you know, we're whether or not they're going to do their reception later. Some may some may not. I don't really know. Um, but all of them have said how amazing it was, because it was the very intimate reason why they decided to get married. And the reason why, you know, a lot of them I've had a couples that are. You know, they want to start their families this year. I mean, this is a big deal for this, you know, these couples that have been planning and this is sort of, you know, their plan. And they're like, if we have our reception next year, it might be a baby shower too. I mean, that's this that's the conversation I've had. I don't even know how many times I've had couples get married this year because. COVID is a real thing. And if they got it, they couldn't be in the same hospital because they're not married. They're not family. So a lot of couples did it for. You know, those reasons sad, but you know, there was a couple, I haven't had quite a few couples that they were like, that's the reason, or for the matter that they, you know, people move jobs and they were already get like, this was the plan they were going to get married this year on this date. So that we're going to be able to, maybe they felt that they couldn't move in with each other until that was all done. So there's, again, a lot of reasons why people are doing this, but all of them who have that married this year on the date or around the date that they were planning to. And had a very intimate celebration. Are like blown away. They loved every single minute of it. And. I have had two couples now get married. Have there. Elopement really intimate. And canceled their big party next year. And I, unfortunately I think that might be. Something we're going to see going into next year. And, um, we're going to have to, you know, deal with that. You know next year too, but, um, You know, that's something where, what I'm finding out, but then there's a lot of couples have said, forget it. We can postpone to next gen. No big deal. And then they're going to have the big party that they wanted to and the full meal deal. So, um, but I would say it's up to each couple's choice and there's no right or wrong way. You're right. There's like, there's no right or wrong way to do this. And we're here to help you in whichever direction you want to go. Uh, yeah. And to again, to apply. We did a, um, saving the 2021, the wedding episode. I don't know, two or three weeks ago. Kind of about that same thing, about people that are going to give you getting married this year and then are going to give me you. You know, have another wedding next year, or if it's the, you know, the reception or the bigger thing or whatever you want to call about, you know, the micro wedding to lever that I thought that was really a great conversation too, about just some ideas of, of. Uh, You know, not that it needed saving, but I, you know, kind of being a jokey about it, but, you know, so it's not like a disaster down the road, right? Like, how do you make sure you say I have some of those same emotions and all that sort of stuff. So I thought that was a good conversation. Um, before we go, I want to do a one, like takeaway from each of you guys. Um, either from a planner, a photographer and venue, if you're. You know, if we're going to get married here. I'm not into summer months. What is something I should be thinking about planning, having in my head as something to be successful about. And I see everybody doing lots of deep thinking, so that's good. Uh, let's go. Kelly seems like she has one. So Kelly Blair, we will go to you first. What's your big takeaway? I just think that to couples planning, um, just to stay open-minded and really trust the vendors that they hire on. I think it's important to do your research, you know, have questions ready to go. Um, I think it's always important to think outside the box. Like, obviously it's narrow-minded and your opinion of how you want your wedding to be is going to be a particular way. But also know, kind of just open your mind open kind of your thoughts. Um, and ask like, Hey, what is it? Well, January wedding look like, or what have you seen or what. It was typical. Just asking those questions and really just hiring on the vendors that. You feel are going to be there when you also need to start spender and lightening and down pouring, who's going to be in your corner to really pivot plans. Make it like it's not even thunder and lightning and raining outside. Um, I think that's really important is just. Rely on. Kind of just get some reassurance that a January wedding, as you know, no big deal to them. And they're not just excited to get a January booking sites, you know? Some money that they weren't expecting that it's, they're genuinely excited to be there. They're excited to celebrate. They're going to treat your January Saturday wedding the same as they do in August Saturday. Um, and I think that's really important. I think a lot of vendors just shut their mind off. Once we hit the off season. Um, and I think it's important to have those people are still in the groove and still kind of working through and really building your team. That was like another thought too. I like 20, 20 has been an awful year, but I think that as a, you know, Planning their wedding as a vendor. I think it's just important to. Pause and we'll get this time with a silver lining and maybe you need to step away from wedding planning and focus on a house project or something else or. Um, just enjoy like date nights with your fiance. Um, and then as a vendor is to like step away. Like what's been on my to do list for three years and I've never actually tackled and I'm going to kick myself if I don't actually get this done because we have an empty season of sorts. And so I think, um, that's kind of my takeaways, my, my advice, and then kind of my recap on. The whole idea of winter off season weddings, but Hey, we function year-round so you guys can come party with us any weekend or a year down here. And, uh, maybe, uh, If I'm a wedding vendor and I want to do it, come on like a wedding, get to know your wedding pro podcast and really share my story and do some networking that way, too. That would be a good idea. Kelly knows about. Hey. Yeah. Hang out with read it's the best day. It's the best time ever. So I'll do that. Uh, Rebecca, I don't think they've done it yet. No exactly. Rebecca. I want to go to you. This has been a really, I think you've had a standard that performance today. I mean, now a lot of good ideas and everything. Any final takeaways. And the device after you as a photographer for a couples wanting to do something, I'll see you then. Yeah, I wanted to go back to the first look. Um, You know, a lot of couples really envisioned this. Um, This magical moment of walking down the aisle and their grooms, seeing them and just like the emotional, um, But. Doing this for 13 years, gosh, 14 years. The reality is. Nine times out of 10. I see a more emotional reaction out of first look and it's because the groom isn't standing. Up on a stage in front of. People refer what she doesn't know. Um, it feeling nervous. So really, I, you know, when a groom is standing up there and the brightest walking down the aisle, And more. More often than not. I see nerves and not emotion. Um, and I think a lot of people don't think about that. They think about, Oh, he's going to see me. He's gonna break down and it's going to be this glorious, emotional moment, but I really see more emotion out of first. Look, Um, and with doing the first look. Especially on a winter wedding, it just creates more opportunities and more time to do your photos. I have had weddings where they opted not to do a first look and the weather was gorgeous and beautiful. Before the ceremony. And then if our branding. And it was like, if you guys have just on a first look, we could have done your photos before and we could have been outside and it would have been great. Um, so really just urging the first look. That being said, I'll never force my clients to do anything that they don't want to do. So if you don't really have your heart set on not doing a first look. I'm not going to make you change that. But really just, um, think about your timeline. Give yourself plenty of time. Think about what time the sun sets. Um, Think about. Everything from the venue you're booking. Um, is there a space in there to do photos? If we have to stay inside? Um, even something as simple as renting statement piece, like a, like a beautiful vintage couch. Um, we'll create another photo op. Um, you know, we can get a couple photos sitting on his couch. It'll be like a hoop. Oh, we lost the Rebecca there for a second. Sorry, we lost you for the last 10 seconds. We were on scotch. We ran into statement couch. We were getting for those on the statement. Yes, it creates another photo op. So. Um, You know, think about things like that. And, um, Just ha bring an umbrella. Yeah. Uh, and Kelly Holcomb last year. Yeah. You know, here's, here's some things to think about no winter wedding. Um, a lot of your, you know, when you get married, it seems like it's an onset of all of your friends also get married within, within a couple of years. And I feel like a lot of our couples have weddings that they're in pretty much all summer months. And so I'm doing an off season wedding. Um, not only like puts, you know, changes the dynamic and maybe you can enjoy all your friends' weddings in the summer, but it also gives all your friends, the focus to be at your wedding. Um, and a lot of times people don't think about like, And doing like a, a honeymoon, like you're not going to want to leave our beautiful sunny state to go to Hawaii. I mean, you probably will, but you know, like, and you were to do a honeymoon and like the fall or winter or spring, like to go to Hawaii or Mexico or wherever to somewhere like it's a total change. And so these are like little things, but like every year, maybe then, you know, in that off season when it's, yeah, the weather's crappy. Here you go somewhere else for your honey for your anniversary. And that's something. You know, something to think about. Um, another, I know we touched on it as far as like ceremony goes, but like, Weddings really do give you the ability to have that candle light and the, you know, the winter weddings, because it gets darker quicker that candle light does show up and it makes it really pretty and romantic too. So, um, You know, may, may have to adjust for photos, but that's okay. At least you still get to have beautiful candlelight on your tables are down your aisle, and it really sets that glow factor for your wedding as well. Yeah, we just had a, like, it was a small kind of a little family thing wedding. And they had this beautiful table set up and all these candles and everything and the photographer, we were kind of just hanging out and they were taking photos. And they're all. Do you want us to lie to all these, you know, he's like, it's not, I'm not going to see any of them. Like, it doesn't mean, you know, Is it it's two in the afternoon, you know, bright sunlight. So yeah. Is that, you know, Some of these things in this ambiance and stuff can definitely be, uh, to show up better. You know, in more of the evening and you're more of the moody lighting. And so. Yeah, for sure. So, yeah. Sounds so nice right now, now that you said like a trip to the sun, Right. I know. Uh, well, thank you guys all so much for coming on today and rally and to do this and, uh, just a shared device. I mean, I think you guys all brought a lot of really good advice to there for people. Um, In any last plugs in the other things, before we go, we'll start with Kelly Hall com and we'll go around and then we'll say goodbye. Yeah, we have a, we just added two more elopements at the Kelly farm. One on November 19th and, or excuse me, November 21st and December 19th. Um, two Saturdays, we have availability. Um, and then we also have availability for an early morning allotment. Laurel Creek on December 5th. So check out our website. Holcomb weddings. And then it's unreal. Implement page. Perfect. Uh, love oral Creek too. That's a fun place. Rebecca. What about you? Um, so on the topic of shifting and pivoting, um, we have shifted and we have built a studio on our property here in Auburn. And we are getting ready to set up for holiday mini sessions. So if anybody wants family photos, um, I'll be announcing that soon. I haven't set a date yet. Um, but I'm going to be announcing something within the next week or so on my Facebook page. Rebecca Jane photography. Awesome. And Kelly Blair, take us home. Nothing too exciting. I, gosh, I hate to end it. Um, we're just doing, you know, intimate ceremonies within, you know, current guidelines right now. And so as we transition into, you know, the fall winter, perfect on topic, those who are still wanting to get married this year, for whatever reason, tax benefits, health benefits, what have got, um, we can make it happen. Endorse maybe lab. Um, so like we are doing. Ceremonies instrument, receptions. Um, we don't meet a lot of decor, which is always wonderful. It's a fun little, I love the ambiance. Our venue takes on the fall into the winter. It's nice and cozy little setting. Um, so we, our historic 16, 25, we are wedding and event. Anyway. He went to coma and our social media and whatnot is just historic 16, 25. Yeah, I've never done. No, I guess I didn't want to ma historic. I was going to say, I don't think I've ever done like a summer and actually July wasn't. Um, the mermaid themed wedding was in July. That was the August. Okay. I lied. Okay. Alright, well, so we've been there all year anyway. Well, thank you guys so much. Again, this has been another episode of the best made weddings, thanks again.

Episode 21 - Grieving Your Wedding

Thank you all so much for being here today. We've assembled quite the crew, basically how this worked out is I am Marie. We did the wedding together, uh, about a month ago with Jenny, Jenny, and I am Marie, how the wedding? And I said, we want to get Ann Marie. I'm one of these best me where these round tables. And so I reached out to Anne Marie said, What, what do you want to talk about? What do you think this is kind of a timely podcast. We try to do this week in Emory's. Yeah. I kind of had this idea. We're we're kind of calling this grieving your wedding. Um, kind of. I accepted the changes. Are there going to be happening this year, going to the next year, just kind of processing all that emotion. I do think this is going to be a little bit more higher level today in terms of, you know, just that the things we're talking about and the Emory said, I want to have Alan and Jenny on. And I said, well, then we're going to have Alex and Jenny on. This is where we're at. And, uh, And so we're going to kind of let, uh, Emory. I think we kind of have an idea of what this is going to be. We'll kind of feel this out together, but, um, Alan, why don't you introduce yourself? And then Jenny, and then we'll, we'll have Emory introduce herself and then we'll kind of get into this. My name is Alan chitlins and my company is Puget sound, DJ, and I am excited for this opportunity. And Jamie Harris made weddings. And Jenny, how are you doing today? You look great. Thank you. I'm doing great. My Jenny GG of Jenny GG photography. And Ann Marie, uh, the, the person. So it's awesome. Have your own podcast here. I'm in such esteemed company. Read. Hello, Allan. Hello, Jenny. Hello everybody. I'm Ann Marie Julianne, and I am. A married lady at wedding officiant here in the Seattle area. So Jenny era, sorry. So Emery. Yeah. To me through, you know, I reached out to you, I said, we want to do, you know, what do you want to talk about? We want to, this podcast is for, you know, wedding planning, couples, also vendors, but a lot of people that are getting married have gotten married. Kind of a crazy time. So what kind of candy your head today? About what we're going to talk about? Well, I think that when we talked about the whole year of 2020, I think I'm really tired of people saying, you ask somebody how they're doing and they go, great. I'm doing great. And that sure. I believe them because I think it's a really up and down process, particularly in the events industry of which the wedding piece is a part of the events industry, which has just been really hit incredibly hard. And I think like Alan and Jenny, and perhaps even you read, we spent a lot of time postponing and canceling weddings. And Alan, we had this conversation a number of weeks ago about, you know, what is the real health of 2020? What is the real health of 2021? When it comes to. Um, couples and their feelings and how this impacts that only the wedding, but the potential marriage, because this is a lot to navigate though. The boatload of disappointment, the boatload of fracture. Um, I have a number of couples that I just don't think are going to come together in 2021. And, um, I just think there's a lot more going out there and win. This is a sea of, we truly don't know how to handle this. But there's a lot of conversation and there's a lot of emotion and feeling out there. It's a very emotive time. And if we just put pretend, Oh, let's just postpone it. And a 21. There's a lot more that goes with it. Yeah. Yeah, go ahead. Do me. Turn your microphone a little more out towards, there we go. And so obviously you, you work with a lot of couples. Yeah. So what kinds of conversations are you having with them? And what kinds of things are you guys talking about? Sure. A lot of the conversation happened in March and April and may where we really thought we were kind of naive. We really thought these couples as well as I did that, we could reschedule entered July, August, September into the fall. And so I am working with couples that not only have rescheduled once we've rescheduled two times and three times. The interesting thing is, is that a number of these couples went ahead and got legally married in small ceremonies to summer. So it's going to be interesting to see if they still stay fully engaged. If it's important to them to have the larger celebration. Or are they going to kind of redo it? Into a different way, perhaps a smaller celebration, not the hundred, hundred and 50 guests, which you've been hell knows if we'll be able to have any number like that in 2021. There's just a lot going on. And a wedding is supposed to be supposed to be in a normal, whatever is supposed to have kind of like this tapestry of, of, of steps, the engagement. And the steps have been blown up. And there's a lot of frustration. There's a lot of financial loss. There's a lot of, um, Like the tectonic plates in a relationship. Couples are having to negotiate ways that perhaps they're not accustomed to that is about pain and loss and disappointment. And how did two people. Do this, it's just, it's a lot. You know, and this kind of segues to, and to Alan was just on actually the one that we just posted this week talking about kind of saving the 20, 21 wedding, you know, whether are we going to do in terms of. Physically, like, how are we actually going to plan this wedding either? We got married, sorry, we got married this year. You know, we're going to do a reception, a larger wedding with ever next year. And that was a little bit more, um, You know, like I said, the physical planning, I think this today is going to be a little bit more about the mentality behind that about kind of more of the, the, I love metaphysical is right. We're just kind of what's going on in your head. Uh, Allen w what do you have to say about this? And then I want to touch in with Jenny too. Well, I think that the key issue. That Amber is bringing up is just the emotional challenge for any couple who has been envisioning their wedding. And has had to go through this. I mean, it. It, it really can be perceived as a loss and. All right. You know, as, as painful for some people as a death in their family, right? Like you've got this expectation of what your wedding is going to be. And in some cases, you know, if you were getting married August 8th, You heard from the governor 10 days before? Nope. Nope. You're not going to do that. Um, And what strikes me about this is that it is. Many of these couples probably don't have peers. That fully understand what's happening because it's such a rare occurrence that so many weddings get postponed or canceled or split up as we're seeing right now. And. So the opportunities to have somebody who truly understands are kind of limited for some of these couples, um, And I would say in some cases, Maybe they don't necessarily agree on how disappointed they should be. You know, maybe one person is like, okay, well that's. That's what. What we can do. And other, the other one was like, but this was my dream. Jenny. What do you think reckless? I know, uh, we had, um, I'm struggling right now. Uh, are there a couple that we had back on Whidbey Island, Cappy and Jackson, John. Yeah. Thank you. Um, you know, and they had kind of gone through this too, where they were going to do a wedding and you had been booked with them forever. Right? It was, I got brought in really last minute, but this was something that you had worked with them through a lot of desks. And finally, they just said, F you know, we're going to do, and it was just us in Emory and them, and they just said, yeah, we got to do it. What was it like, kind of going with them through all of this, you know, as someone that had. You know, I'm sure they check ins a lot with them kind of going through this whole process. Yeah. I mean, I think, uh, with that particular couple, they're still planning on having a party next year. They, uh, just like, uh, Anne Marie had mentioned. There are a lot of couples that decided that, okay, well, you know, we can't do it the day that we wanted to do it, but maybe we'll still get married that day. And I'd had, you know, I've had a few like that where they still get married on the day that they planned on getting married. But. They're going to party. Uh, you know, next year, what, and I actually have a couple right now that they rescheduled back in. I wanna say April. For next year. But then as the year has gone and they've been seeing certain things open up and like now we wa. Uh, if you're, you could have like 50 people now or something like that. And so they've decided to can the, the, the. The next year date, and they're going to bump it up and just go ahead and get married anyway, in a much smaller situation. And so they've rescheduled twice, I guess, you know, um, in that timeframe and we've been chatting a lot and I will say there's an enormous amount of relief that seems to come. From folks, that's sort of been the vibe. I had a wedding last weekend that canceled because one of the couple, uh, tested positive for COVID and while it was a horrible thing and you know, not, not part of the plan to have to cancel. There was something in the tone of her voice when we chatted that gave me the impression that on some level there was relief. Uh, I think out of, because they work in the healthcare field and they've been seeing the COVID experience. Uh, you know, right here. Um, they, I think were really worried about. Being vectors or, uh, You know, getting it. And I think, although they were really excited to get married and to have their loved ones, there was a lot of like, Yeah. Anxiety that was around that, that I felt that at least to me sounded like, um, even though she tested positive, there was a bit of relief in her voice. Oh crazy. So when you posted that, I was like, this is okay. Yeah. Have it be right smack dab in front of you is yeah. Especially the bride, you know? Yeah. Yeah. But, I mean, I think they they've been testing a lot because they work in healthcare. Both of them actually work in healthcare, but, uh, um, She just has negative tasks all along. And I think she was just doing it for peace of mind and then Whoa. So, I don't know if I actually answered your question. That's okay. How are we going to help you email? We kind of, we see what's going on here. So how are we going to kind of work through this? I think part of it is just getting real. For instance, I'm on a consultation with a couple of the other night, they want to do 150 people in a closed space. Next. August. And I, I just, I'm just listening to this and I'm thinking really. It was happening I think, and I could be wrong. And Ellen and Jenny, I've talked about this. Is that we're going through a profound shift right now in terms of what is a wedding? How do we celebrate a wedding and how many people do we have at this event? And I think right now this whole COVID thing is going to shape shift. The landscape of what a wedding is, and it's going to be very different going forward. And I think 2021 is a complete crap shoot in terms of what's going to happen, how it's going to do, what's going to look like, I think. In my opinion, we can take a look at 22. And 22 seems to be. People can kind of wrap their arms and their hearts around 22 but 21. And I think. Yeah, I think this is my opinion. And I could be totally crazy. And totally wrong, but if we're in phase three, Or phase two. What happens is, is that it gets very, very complicated in terms of, uh, terms of people. And. You've got couples out there. Who are juggling a lot. They've got jobs. They've got unemployment. They've got family members who can't come in. You're not going to put grandma on a plane. And I've had so many people say if my grandmother and my grandfather can't be there, I'm not getting married. The emotional component to this isn't necessarily. What's the word MPP logical. A wedding isn't logical. It's emotive. It's it's. It's this complete massive ritual, a transition. It's so big, huge as much as it is a celebration. It's the emotional pieces that go into saying, I'm going to choose to share my life with you. And they have a blown up. You have to put that back together and keep the focus on what is really, really important. And what's important is to people. Sharing their lives, figuring out a way that is going to be their story. And so going back to your point. Reid is. Getting real for what? Is right for a couple. And not. Thinking larger. But keeping it really contained and special and beautiful. Because we don't know what's going to go on. What do you think Jenny? What do you think T 2021 is going to be what's your gut say? Oh, you know, it's not that I disagree. I just, uh, I feel like. Things might shift definitely in terms of size. Yeah. Scope. Yeah. Um, but I mean, just in a, in a few weddings that I've done this year, it's been lovely to see how many people will say to me. I just want to get married. Whether it's, whether it's with zoom or, you know, five people or whatever. Um, that has been a lot of that. And maybe it's just because I come at them with such like, well, what did we, I can photograph anything. 200 of us, you know what I mean? Maybe it's the angle at which I combat. I don't usually come as couples with a lot of. Uh, like it seems appropriate for an account team to talk about the emotional component and to have that sort of therapeutic aspect in the planning or a planner, even, maybe, you know, like having this sort of emotional, um, I'm all about whatever is going to make you happy in that moment. That's, what's going to make happy images. So. If, if having grandma there is, what's going to hinge on that. Then by all means, wait until grandma can come. Um, Uh, but a lot of people really, at least from my experience so far has just really wanted to get married regardless right in the hole. One last point. COBIT is totally an addict control experience. It's a totally as well. If a couple can kind of bring that control back. And say, these are my choices were going to do this. I'm going to figure this out. This is going to happen. Then some semblance of understanding and control. Is kind of like really beautiful medicine to say, we're going to do this and we're going to figure it out for us. Emery do me one favor real quick. I'm going to do this. I remember. Keep you going your savings. Can you turn your microphone down just slightly? Sorry. I hate to interrupt the, uh, Uh, Either your audio settings. Just did it. No. Am I too loud? Just, it was just, it was blowing loud. What zoom does, is it it like, it doesn't know how to handle it. Do you want me to take off the headset? No. Okay. Talk to me, I think that's better. How's that. Is that better? I think, yeah. Okay, I'll hold it back. Oh no, you can do it. Let it go. Yeah. Okay. Um, do you not rain and we're re. I'm like, Oh my God. I've been told many times I talk too loud. There I am on a zoom blowing you up. I totally get it. Uh, Nobody, but it's a great point to talk about. And this is interesting too, because so, uh, Dorothy's good friend. They just got engaged last, like last weekend. I I'm. Missy my dates out, but they got to gauge and Dorothy and I were talking about it at brunch last weekend. I said, I don't wouldn't know what the heck to do if I got engaged right now, because I certainly wouldn't want to plan something for April or may, right. This year, you know, like coming up on whatever. And then if you're doing, you know, June, July, August, you're running into still, maybe COVID and then also dealing with couples that are postponing and we're shifting this whole wedding industry, you know, a year in that. No matter what city you're in, right? You could be in Seattle or New York or wherever. Right. We're all dealing with these postponements. And as the Dan, if you're waiting to next year, That's a really long time to be engaged, you know? You're getting engaged in. You know, October and then the planet for almost two years. It's nuts to, I mean, I just don't even know where that were kind of fits in. I dunno what, what, what I would do if I were them. If that makes sense. Al, what do you think about all this? Well, I think one of the big challenges is the uncertainty. No one knows what the summer of 2021 is going to be like. And if you did know. If it did know that we were still going to be under restrictions. You have a better ability to emotionally prepare yourself for that. And then logistically. You have a better ability to say I'm going to act this way. I'm going to have my ceremony. At this time with this many people, I'm going to do this about my reception, but. Um, th. The challenge is. Wow. Who knows. I've got a bunch of couples. That are betting on 2021. Um, I will share that I'm a big concert goer, and I had many concert tickets for this summer and they literally all just went. June 6th, 2020, June 7th, 2021. They just rescheduled for a one-year. Hence, and it's not clear to me. What it's all going to be like. And, and I feel like we're at a big disadvantage. The couples here are at a big disadvantage in the Pacific Northwest because so many of the weddings happen in that 15 weeks. In July, August and September. So. Uh, if you're in Southern California. You can always just move four months out or six months out in eight months out. And you're going to get to have the same wedding. Here. If you have August scheduled for 2021. And it still isn't going to happen for you. Then you really do after wait. Yeah, 11 or 12 months to get that wonderful humid free. Wow. Well, that was like trying to, I mean, but I. Until I get what you mean, you know, an Allen did our wedding. I mean, Dorothy was bound and determined to have an August wedding, you know, and that's no jokes aside at all. You know, we had talked about trying to do something off season, just as a wedding vendor would have been really nice. And that was really important, but you know, that was really important to her. And if that is important to you, which it is important to a lot of our couples. They have those summer Saturdays. It's really, really tough. I, it was interesting that we just had our 10, 10, 20, 20. You know, that was this, this last weekend. And. To think of how long ago that, uh, Caitlin and Ben had booked up, you know, me. And then to think of all the world that had changed between yeah. I don't even know, two years, year and a half that they had booked it. To today. And then to think it's just crazy. It's really a crazy time. And did you know that they went from having, and not that it was not sell the wedding of their dreams, but it was a very definitely different idea than they had originally planned. Even though we did get married at their same venue. Very very small live stream. We were done at five mass. All this didn't, you know, I mean, it was, it was very, very, very different than it, than it ever would have been. Um, Emery. W, what do you call this? You know, I think it's a number of factors and I think Alan and Jenny you're absolutely spot on and read. I totally agree with you on a lot of what you're saying. There's a lot. There's the emotional loss. And then there's the financial loss. And then there's other components. A lot of the couples that I've married this summer are getting married for insurance. They're also getting married because you want to start a family. And they're really not sure what 21 is going to, going to bring. And. There's an emotional maturity that comes with absorbing disappointment. And rewiring and reframing something. And when you're in your 20s and 30s, You're you're you. Compared to a couple of decades older, the framework for understanding how to navigate that is different. And the point was made. I think Alan, you made the point where two people really take a look, a disappointment. Differently. And there's a real enchantment to say, you know what, here's the deal. The wedding is important, but we're focused on the marriage. So if we look at both and we say, cause a lot of these couples is do something well said, Jenny, they just want to get married. They want to start their lives. Did you not want to be held hostage? Two, as you said, Alan, the uncertainty. So I feel like it's taking back control and saying, all right. How do we want to do this? How's this going to look? What is this going to be for us? And recognizing it's not about the number as much as it is just the opportunity to share with our best people. I've had some amazing weddings and Jenny, you bet at a number of them. Where, you know, where they get 10 people, 20 people, 30 people. And right now in phase two, we're at 30 people, phase three, where it 50 people. I don't know. We're not at 50 now. It's 50. No, I believe it's 50 and phase three. But it's 30 in phase two, the above 50, right. Allen youth. You know, I think it, I think it is still 30. There were people advocating for 50, but they didn't get it. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. The reason I thought the last, the last switch. Give a bump up to whatever restaurants have or whatever. Yeah. It's very complicated because Inslee. The guidance comes out really randomly. And we really don't know, but as far as I know right now, it's 30 for phase two. It's 50 for phase three. Well, it's, it's so interesting too. And what can you, as the point that Jenny made, where the difference between, you know, kind of where we fit in versus, you know, an officiant or a planner. You know, it can be two people on the side of a beach and we're there and yeah. It's a wedding and we're capturing it right there. There it is. It's about kind of meeting the couples where they want to be, but also reframing those expectations. I don't know. I mean, we're the same because yeah, like you said, we could. Like Kathy and Jeff were just there in the backyard and it's a wedding and we're done. And it's, we've always sat on the podcast trying to. Uh, get people to focus on what we can do versus. And it's been a real struggle. It's been a real struggle even with, you know, couples that I've had of trying to push the rules and do this and do that. And I remember Alan and I talked back in March, I think. And I remember you said. If we are still in this, whatever in August, I will, you know, I will be very afraid for what is going on, just yeah. Country and our world and our economy just in everything. And here we are now in October, right. We are still, you know, in all that. Fall before I came on this as you well know, I'm at. I was at the gym. I still am at the gym. And I was watching CNN. And the vaccine. The whole. It's constant conversation about, as you said, the unknown, we don't know anything. So try to plan something for 2021. There's a lot of trust and you're going to have to be a Gumby. But you're going to have to say, okay, we are going to embrace it. We're going to plan this. 2021, this we're going to do it this way. And we also know that we may have to make some adjustments, but the reality is if we're already at 30 people and 50 people. Unless we have a big blowup. I think couples can count on those numbers and those are really beautiful numbers of people. For a ceremony and the vendors are here. We're all here. We want to just work and we just want to celebrate and enjoy with these people. And, you know, fairy dust and with all of our talents. I think it's going to be okay. I just might. Question is the disconnect for the larger weddings and couples who are coming to me and saying, yeah, we're going to have 150 people on this date in August that I'm not sure about. That causes me concern. Jenny, what kinds of, uh, you know, if you are, but what if you're booking couples into next year, talking with couples? What kinds of conversations are you guys having a name? Whether you, um, you know, what kinds of things are you guys talking about right now? Yeah, it seems like, uh, there's a presumption that there will be stronger direction from our state. There's a presumption that we'll we'll know more than kind of a thing. And it seems like. Uh, if masks, just for example, if masks are now part of our norm. A, vaccine's not going to change that. Especially, I mean, the reality of a vaccine. Particularly down to, you know, common. Just everyday folk. I don't think that's going to be anytime soon, you know, like, and, and, you know, and that brings up the whole conversation of who's actually going to take the vaccine and what it is when an F and all that, you know? So, um, but it seems to me that the conversation is more, um, we're gonna plan for what we hope. And then we're going to already have what I have been encouraging couples to do is have your be plan B like right here instead of your B plan being on the ground. Cause that's gonna set you up for some massive disappointment. So, if you just assume that. There's going to be some consideration, having to be put into place in regards to COVID. Whether you're planning for 125 gas, like you would normally have, you know, maybe the plan is instead of worrying about the guests couch, thinking more in terms of, am I in an environment where I can have my money outside, if that's what I need to do, uh, you know, and if there's no mandates and I can have it indoors, then great. I can get. You know, married in front of that fireplace. I love whatever, blah, blah, you know, um, uh, it seems like those are the things that need to be clicking and where as a photographer, I always suggest that we keep the B plan, not too far from the plan. I think that just has to come into play. With the whole deal, you know? And, um, yeah, like, even with like preparing, when you're going to send out your paper products, you know, you've got to think like, okay, you know, Instead of doing it the way that dear Abby would have told you to do it back in the day or whatever. Now we got to think in terms of COVID and. And what that looks like. So, um, I also think that as the streaming becomes more on lock. And less foreign to folk. I think you'll, you'll probably start to see a lot more people being willing to let their grandma not physically be there because there are certain that their grandpa can watch it or whatever you. You know what I mean? Um, Yeah. It's it's interesting to me. And something that I've noticed just with my own bookings in the last couple of weeks is I had a lot of, you know, may weddings in June and they all pushed. It just happened that they all pushed, you know, the, all the Saturdays in November into December, whenever that was the ninth and the 16th or whatever those, those dates were. And then a lot of my October weddings were always kind of booked because at least where we book, we kind of book until November. And then it's generally a hard stop just for video. We don't do a ton of off season stuff. And what's been interesting to me that I've noticed is a lot of my October weddings have been really, really flexible, like our one on 10, 10, and downsize. And we have one on the 24th and they have downsized and the one on the 25th as a live stream. And they're an Indian, you know, tons of their, family's going to be in India, watching. All this remote stuff. But all of our November weddings, I think when it w when they decided to make that push to November from may or whatever, In their head, it was, we're doing the big wedding. We're pushing to November so we can do the big wedding. And now that we're getting close. They're all. They're all. Um, there's no downsizing. They're pushing again. They're pushing again. They're pushing again, which is just interesting to me because I thought, man, I don't know whether November's are going to do. And they're all, every single one of them's pushing it down the line now, which is obviously they're right. But I think, you know, nine months ago, they've now they're six months ago. There's no way in the world that we're not going to be able to have the wedding that we wanted in November. And you know, here we are, and it's still. You know, basically the same. Galatians we've had for months, right? Yeah. And interestingly enough, I've seen more. I don't know if it's because we've gotten deeper into this, but I've seen more couples have more of a, of a. Almost attitude of. Well, I'll let people decide what's best for them. Like. Uh, and not necessarily taking the full. I think initially a lot of people put it on the cells. Like this is, you know, I'm making the decision kind of a thing and it seems like more and more people are saying, well, we're going to provide masks and we're going to provide all of this. But, uh, and that's an interesting, that's going to be an interesting twist. I, you know, I see too, especially as these Kelly's get in different once certain counties are in phase four, I think it's going to be really easy for folks who are still in phase two to want adjust. Do it as. You know, initially plans or whatever. Sorry. No, I, and I, that is a really it, now that you say that that is something that I really think about, we're going to, um, uh, we're gonna go visit my wife's friend, had a baby in Spokane over the weekend, and then we're going to have to kind of do the corn teabag. And I'm really curious, even just to go to Spokane because I have not left the smell of bubble. I mean, any, you know, I haven't left my house really. So, you know, since Mars and I'll just even be curious to seeing that different mentality of just going across the stage and just seeing, I just have no idea what that's even going to be like. It's different, even just looking. So I live right where Snohomish County becomes Snohomish County and then, you know, with King right below us, And it's interesting how I can do a portrait session at a park in Linwood. And then a portrait session. You know, gasworks and the vibe is so different and the mask quantity is so different. Um, yet we're like 10 miles from each other. So. The viral load has to be similar. Um, but. Well they've said. The NFL with all the testing and stuff. They've said that there has been no, um, not a lot of reports of the Kobe. Yeah, it's all been like internally within the teams and not necessarily happening. On the field. So maybe it's the same thing. Maybe the virus knows not to cross County lines. It just knows. The game's going on. We can't, we can't spread now. Uh, Allen hop in here. What do you think about this? Well, I go back to what Ann Marie was saying very early on about how it's important for couples to get real. You know, and, and so that's an opportunity to get in some depth about your priorities. Are you okay. Having a small ceremony right now? Is that going to help you feel married, help you get insurance, help you with whatever else you want. Is it more important to you to have, um, a wedding. That's bigger and all self-contained, um, that, that there has been some. Denial, I think on the part of some couples. As you, as you mentioned with the one you were describing for next summer and Marie, like. We might not have 175 people next year, but I think for a couple of years, Great time to do just an M a personal reckoning. Yeah. What's what are my values? What, what am I willing to accept? What do I really want to do? And that is hard. Well, I mean, wedding planning was all ready. Hard. There's just so many decisions that have to be made that to throw this on top of everything. Makes it a challenging. Process. But hopefully to my mind, it's one that a couple comes out of stronger and better able to communicate and better able to make decisions together. You know, it's really funny, but Jenny, some of the photos that you've taken at some of our recent weddings. My most favorite photos that are up on my bulletin board or the ones where I'm in a mass with the. Making funny faces are funny. I just look at these stones, Alabama. I got up on the bulletin board and Jenny I've just loved them. I will always remember this. It's part of my story. It's part of your story is all of our stories. But there is fear. There's anxiety. There is, I have trepidation walking into every wedding situation. Not really knowing. What am I walking into our people, adhering to social distancing guidelines. Are they kind of middle of the road? Are they kind of not. You have talked to a number of vendors and it's all over the map right now, but the majority of them are very gracious and are stepping up and doing what they need to do because that's the kind of couples that we get. But. This is a really. Crazy. Time. And as you said, Ellen, there's like a reckoning part of it, right? It's kind of like, there's a difference between the wedding and the marriage. And if, if you can use the wedding planning, whatever that looks like, right. To deepen your bod. Understand how you come to profound disappointment. There are going to be times at every relationship, all of us are in longer term relationships. We're we're going to know sacrifice and profound disappointment, and we're going to have to sit and go. Ooh. This is just happening at the very beginning before a couple's married. And this is throwing everything out of whack. Well, and true, Alan, you just were talking about how, you know, with that reckoning, a couples having to think about what's important to them. Yeah. It's an Emory mentioned the age ranges earlier, and it seems to me that. Uh, For most weddings, it's not really about just what the couples wanting. You know, like they're planning with all the input from their, their respective families. And what the expectation is for a wedding. And I mean, weddings have always been about gathering everyone in your tribe. You know, or in your community or in your, you know, your group and. So it does, it does separate. I think that people, they get married regardless. They are the, really at the helm of. Various verses. You know, To appease family and make it be what families hoping for, or expecting, or, or whatever. That's what I thought when you were mentioning about, yeah, it would be amazing if it was just across the board with wedding planning. It'd be amazing if it was just what the cup of water. Yeah. My couples that, you know, as soon as you get engaged, everyone just starts, should non yet. Shouldn't you do this and shouldn't you do that and you just get s**t on left and right. And, um, uh, I think that this has been an opportunity. To, to step back and actually take, uh, you know, Inventory of what is important to you and why you're having a wedding in the first place. It was so interesting. We had, um, one of our couples that got married in September and they were, it was another kind of a long time. Uh, they just go to a really long time ago and I'm like, wow. A Sunday in September. Like let's, you know, let's simple, let's put it on the calendar. And so she had just posted yesterday. Was there. You know, it was their one month anniversary. And, you know, Courtney, this bride had. Just a really easy going demeanor, right? I mean, we talked just kind of on email and then obviously back and forth with all this going on. And then when she posted yesterday, her, uh, Did a little Instagram and some photos from our photographer. Yeah. And he had posted, you know, Hey, you know, this is our one mob, you know, we're so excited. Was it, what was it? The wedding we wanted, like. You know, like we did the best we could, you know, we have 30 of our closest friends here. We had a great day. It was just, it was just the tone in which she, she wrote it. I'm just so easy going and do so kind of like. Grateful just that she was able to have with, you know, have the family that she could have their, have their friends that she could have there. We did everything, you know, it was 100%. Rules. It was at Rebecca's venue up in twin willows. So, you know, it was like, maybe it was like, But I just thought that that is the way to look at it. And it's not to kind of limit like, well, wish we could have had 200 people here, but it was looking at what we did get to have here. Look at what we got to have. You know, she and her husband, they had been together for like 10 years. They're only, I mean, they met when they were like 14. I mean, they've been together forever. And I'm like, man, that, that is how everybody needs to, to try to look at these things is to be a little bit more. Just what, what, what could we do and being appreciative. And not lamenting kind of what, you know, But Emory, how do you view, I mean, you work with couples through this and like, That was one of our questions is kind of like working through despair, ignoring feelings of despair or working through all that. So how do we, how do we get to that point too? So everyone could be like, Courtney. I think. It comes down to remembering why you're getting married. A wedding is just a container to celebrate. A commitment and a relationship, and to bring this tribe of people together. At the end of the day, this is about two people who love each other and are saying, I choose you. I choose you for everything I know. And everything. I don't know. And right now we are living in this massive container of, I don't know. And you made a very good point read in that. Smile is good. Medium size is good. If you can have two people or 10 people or 30 people or 50 people at a wedding. What are you b******g about? That's pretty awesome. And Jenny, as you said, people are recalibrating how they're going to have grandma or uncle bill or whatnot, or a bunch of college grads on the live stream. There's just going to make it different. And maybe that's what we need to look at for 2021. It is still going to be different. And you can still be married in a beautiful way with beautiful wedding vendors around you who are super, super happy to be with you. Just do it differently. Just. That's why I would just say. Feel the disappointment, allow it to be okay. And then look at the person next to you with such gratitude that you're going to share life with this person. And reframe it. And make the plans. Accordingly. So you don't create more disappointment for next year. Make the plan smart. That optimism. I'll go ahead and say that optimism is why people love Anne Marie. Um, I just, I think both of you are saying a similar thing. That it's great to look on the bright side and be excited about what you can do. Um, I would add that. It's that can be a tough journey. For people for. For some people, they have gone to weddings that are big celebrations and that's what they've always had in their mind. And I was thinking earlier today, why. How does somebody who's in that mindset? Adjust. To what is, and I feel like it's harder because you don't have that many peers. You can't really call up your friend who got married in 2017 and had the wedding they wanted. I'm sorry. Oh, I'm so discouraged because I can't do this or can't do that. And so I feel like. Trying to find other couples. Who are going through what your going through. Uh, can be key to that because there's a, there's an immediate empathy. There, um, when my son was born, Uh, he had a condition that required surgery and we were in the hospital for about nine weeks every day. And there was just, parents were just look at each other. We didn't even have to tell each other stories. We just had this commonality. Yeah. Well, we're here at children's and I feel like those people who are 2020 couples can have that too. So. Find. Find peers find people who you, who will listen to you. Um, hopefully you've got a vendor team of people who are empathetic, who will be willing to share their experience with you. And to me, having those conversations can potentially help you get to where you are happy and satisfied with whatever you are able to do. It's hard though. And, and I know we, uh, with Dorothy and I got married, her friend got married the week before, and we had kind of planned it that way because they have a lot of friends that were coming into town. And so we had just planned where everyone can just come into town and kind of for that week and a half, or, you know, whatever thing. And even going to, you know, to that wedding and, and it's, it's really hard, right? If you've, if you've had someone else has gotten married. Cause I do agree with Allen. You want to find people you can grieve with, but then you also need to really be able to be happy with what you, you know, to not like, feel bad if you did, or didn't have something that somebody else had. Right. Or, or to like judge it off of that. I know Jenny, we had, um, Haley's wedding, right? Haley and John and Ronnie Meadows. And then I was just fortunate enough. I, uh, Jamie had also booked me to do their video. These two sisters got married, um, a week and a half or two weeks apart. This last summer, I, I sympathize for their father. You know that they have these two, but the whole time I'm sitting at both of these weddings and I'm thinking. I like, is this really awkward? Are they looking at everything or they write, do they plan these? Like, what is going on here? What is their dynamic? And it wasn't at all. They both knew what they wanted. It was totally separate. They totally had an idea of what they wanted. And one was at. Mariah Meadows that was totally different. And one was more, a little more sophisticated and they just, they were just, they were totally different and, and it's, it's okay to have that. It's okay to have your wedding and have it be, um, Different and not the same as, you know, whatever else and really own the, what you have and really be proud of that. And this is just another circumstance with COVID and there'll be something else in another 10 years. Maybe that's obviously, hopefully not as bad, but something that. You're going to have to work through stuff no matter when you get married, you know? Yeah. You know, I love a wedding. I love the small ones. The medium says large ones. It's been really interesting over the 18 years I've been doing this is that the weddings have grown in size and scope. And. I think this is a really good opportunity and a really good determination to say, all right, let's do some adjustments here. And that bigger isn't necessarily better. One of the things that I hear from couples, you I'm lining everybody up in Jenny might be there and I'm motioning to, to Alan about the MEC and whatnot, but you have a. A processional order. You've everybody lined up. Right. And the number one thing I hear from my bride or the groom is I'm checking in with everybody is ready to go to get their approval. That we're ready to go. I'm talking usually a wedding from 50 to maybe 300 people. I will hear this more than I can tell you. I just want to get this done. I am so. Tired of waiting for this moment. I just want to get married. I just. And maybe that's what this is. Let's just get you married. And we don't have. We can figure out all the pieces, but do it reliably. In 2021 bite size pieces. They're they're going to fit on the chess board. So you don't have to skew to the, to the side of postponing again or disappointment. Everything you're building into your wedding planning is to prove against that. And to make reliable, smart choices. For 2021. One fear that I have, and I would. I'd be curious to hear all three of your guys's thoughts on this is, is my fear. And I would want, like, with Emory says today to be able to kind of re you know, re reframe what we want, you know, focus on these things. My fear is people really are just waiting for the curtain to open again. And then it's like back to 300 people weddings, right? Like it's just bad. You know, that, that people, you know, it's like you're injured and you're waiting. And then it's like the second to, gosh, you know, you're going to go and get, and there's no not learning. Isn't the right word, but there. No reframing during this kind of like during the off season, right. It's just one of the second we can do it again. We want, you know, we want to do it. What do you guys think about that? Do you think that. A lot of couples are thinking that way, or what do you think an Allen, you seem very intently thinking about something. I was thinking about what you were saying. Um, it is interesting theory. I, um, I think people have a lot of time to consider. What's happening because this has already been going on for longer than anybody could have predicted. Yeah. And for most of those people who moved to the summer of 2021, That's eight months away or nine months away, or what have you. There's there's gonna be plenty of time to integrate. The thoughts and the values that you might have. Um, so I don't know, read, I'm not sure I see couples. It's just pushing the door to. To beat it down. I think there will be a time where we all feel like there's a consensus. That. We're mostly over it. Um, but that time, who knows when that will be. Um, Hopefully soon. Well, just because there's been that my question is just because there's time to reflect before 20, 21 summer. Is that? Yeah, just cause we have the time. Are we going to do that reflection? I think so, because I feel like people are not going to pressure. Their friends, family is not going to pressure their friends. Yeah. To go big. Like as, as, as your year goes on. Everyone is going to say to you. You know what? You can have a terrific small ceremony or. You can have a fine reception. If the limitations are this. I don't think there's going to be too many cheerleaders for now. I don't care. As long as zone. As long as it's legal, I'm going to have my 300 people. Ask one more follow-up before we move on at. But, but when you, even, when you say that, when you say like, There'll be somebody that'll say you'll have a fine small ceremony. There still is that even when you, and I know you're mr. Optimistic, but even with that, there is still. You're going to you're. Okay. It's still is settling kind of the way that even you phrase it, do. I mean, we in our culture expect in 20, you know, in 2019. The 200 person or a 150%. I mean, Dorothy and I had, I think one 15. But that it would be even when you, and I mean, even when you say that you said, well, you could have a fine small ceremony. Maybe. Possibility is this, I kind of live by a paradox and my paradoxes, wherever I start to get kind of pissy or Moni. Tony or Ted kind of out of sorts. I kind of bring myself back and go, you know what? Ann Marie. Here's the paradox. The paradox is. What small is big. What's big is small. I live by this paradox. So if I have a small problem, It's big. And a lot of my big problems. So. Small weddings, big weddings. It's the attitude. It's the feeling. People want the feeling of that day of those moments. No matter if they have five people. 50 people or a hundred people. They want the stealing. Anyone's great people around them and they went no crazy and they want limited drama because of wedding does add some drama. They want. To feel them. And they're just going to, as you say, have to adjust. And they're doing it. But some I know are not being real. Like the one couple with 150, whatever people on this enclosed space. I don't. But you can't plan for that because they're going to be disappointed potentially. I don't know. And maybe I'm not even thinking right. But I would just caution and say work within the parameters that are here now, and you can always embellish. And build it out more. And that's even more joyful. Alan. I wanted to get, let you follow up on my question and then we'll go to Jenny, just, if you had any other follow-up on that. Yes, I can. I can agree with you that I sound like that's settling. But what, what I would point out to me. Comparable situation is when it rains. Right. Like you. You've envisioned all this pole day. Uh, and, and you're going to get married and this field with this altar and all of a sudden you're inside. And. It's not worse. It's different. And if you have a positive attitude about it, Then it will be fine and it would be memorable. Yeah. Um, so many couples had been targeting 10, 10, 20. As their, their wedding date. And I had a delightful couple on Saturday and Maddie and Matthew and. You know, when I chatted with them at the rehearsal on Thursday, they were like, yeah. It's going to be thunderstorms. So we're all, you know, we're going to come in. Um, and. They. They had a great, great. Ceremony and a great day. And we did the things that were legal to do. They were happy as can be. They shared it with 25, 26 of there. They're important people to them. So I think it is a lot about the attitude. Jenny, what do you think. Yeah. I mean, I would, I would agree. Uh, that, uh, attitude is kind of everything when it comes to, I mean, any decision you're making, because you're going to come up against all these questions. I would just say in general, When someone comes at me with, uh, with, would this be good? Would this be bad? I just tell them, you know, Tell me what you want to see. So like in regards to images, I say, you know, when all is said and done, and somebody who couldn't come to your wedding, it's going to sit down and look at your photos. What is it? You want him to see? Let's make decisions based on that. You know, if it was about, you know, not even just the visual, but just like what, what feeling, you know, do you want to have, do you want it to be warm and intimate and close? Do you want it to seem like a big party? Like what, you know, and I think you can ask yourself those questions in regards to your planning as well. At some point you have to be willing to. To have that have things. Sifted through enough that if it came down to. On the wedding date, you have a huge thunderstorm and lightning or whatever you have all these things that can happen with or without COVID. Um, you know, and how were you going to deal with that? How are you going to approach that? You know, if you're a negative person, then. You know, you might experience that as that as a huge thing. As a huge negative thing. But, uh, you know, I remember a couple of years ago we had a, I had a wedding over on Whidbey and it was that, that obviously we had that crazy windstorm and all the trees came down. And there was no power. There was no generator. There was no nothing. But the Wayne was awesome because the Cabo. And the family was like, dude, what a story? Let's party, you know, and. I mean, I think that that's kind of the takeaway in life. Is are you going to make lemonade or are you gonna, you know, Suck lemons. I do think that, that Jenny and I do think that among many super powers that you have, I do think that one you have is when you have a couple. You know, and it goes for everything. I mean, obviously you're looking at it from them getting good photos, but, but part of it too is just that, you know, the mood of how they are on the wedding day. Right. Cause you want to be in that mood. And they could either, they could ask anything in the world. And it could be like, what should I have my hand like this when I, but whatever it is. You know, you always. You make them feel good about it, right. Because you know, you feel good about everything and then they're going to look better. But also they're just going to have a better wedding day because they're going to remember like, yeah man. Aye. You know, I feel great. And it goes, I guess, beyond just having the photos of just, you know, that whole mentality across the day, right. If having that feeling of confidence of like, you know, this is going to be good, whether it's thunder storms, like Alan said, we got to move, you know, we're going to have it be good. And I think so much of it is that across the board. And, and like I said, not a lamenting, you know, anything, but they're really. Yeah, so. Um, I am going to wrap this up pretty soon. Rosie is about to break the door down for her dinner. I don't know if anybody has heard her a whiny. And literally he says we started recording. I don't even know when an hour ago. But I, you know, th this, this is not an easy topic to, to, you know, to, to quantify too, to answer, right. There's no big. Okay. I'm going to take these three things today and go home and do something about it. But, but whether we want to leave people with today with this, you know, discussion, what is, you know, some. Whether it's kind of a mental checklist or a positive note or something, whether we want to leave people with today, Alan, let's start with you. Well, I guess what I would say is that, uh, in the big picture, It is going to be fine. It may not be what you want. It may not be when you want, it may not be with who you want, but in the end, you're going to get married to somebody that you love. And you're going to get to start your life together. And so if you keep that as the end goal, Hopefully the rest of it. We'll all. Come come into play and come into perspective or some cliche. Jenny. What about you? Well, and I guess it would. Depend on who I'm talking to as a vendor, I have to say having these kinds of conversations, always. Uh, make me feel better. Only as it's helped me realize that my reality is actually somewhat parallel with others because there's been a lot of during this whole time, I've had a lot of moments where I stopped at him. Like. You know, am I being punked? Like, is this real like, cause I'll, I'll go places and I won't, it won't seem like it's impacting or, you know what I mean? I had a wedding that I did just a couple of weeks ago and I was. I was taken aback at how few people were distancing wearing masks. How many of the older folk were hugging and kissing on the younger folk? I was really surprised by it. And I had this moment of like, Am I crazy. And so I have to say, I really appreciate, uh, having that connection with other vendors, as far as my couples go, I think that the takeaway would be really involve your vendors. Don't think that your vendors are just, you know, Ask them what they've seen, ask them what they've seen. That's worked. Ask them what they've seen that maybe hasn't worked so great. Um, I have, you know, I've only maybe done a. You know, 10 or so, but I will say at least for my experience with watching their zooms and seeing what people are saying on that end and, you know, helping troubleshoot going forward. But. I'm ultimately, I think the takeaway would be, you know, um, Cute. Talk and open up your periphery. Uh, because what you were originally deemed as the end goal of your wedding, um, You know, it doesn't have to be less than it could just be a reframing, um, at. If you, if you, if you look at the whole situation, if you back it up and come at it from a bunch of different directions and some people just end up figuring out, you know what, I just let's just. Let's alone, you know, like, because really it's not about having a bunch of people for those couples that the people being present is what's paramount. Then by all means let's set it up. Uh, like I was saying earlier, you know, do, do you know, do 60 people outdoors instead of. You know, trying to. Give me insight or whatever, you know, just having a different, uh, a different way of handling the COVID. No problem. I hop in real quick before Emory. Sorry. I, and I will say for the record, I've talked to Dorothy about this in the last week. Cause I know that we just had our alum who was just on the other podcast about the, you know, doing that. A lot, man. And then the wedding, you know, later on and what's that going to look like? And as someone that's, I've said, just do it now, whatever Dorothy. My wife. Absolutely. We were the way that we would have done it. Having the people there is paramount. Right. So as much as I talk about everything and that's like kind of big expert and we'll, this is the way that we would do it. That is absolutely what she would have done because more than anything else, that is what is most important to her is to have everybody there. So even just, I just want to say that, you know, and that's my wife and I, you know, asked her is she goes, now, this is what we would have done because now. What's most important. So I just wanted to hop in with that. Uh, Amery police take us up. I would say to jump on set, Jenny, something that you said about the reframing that we talked about several times here. Is that. Why do you just have to have one wedding? A wedding is a celebration. And maybe this is a time where you have multiple celebrations on the road. To celebrating your relationship. I would say first and foremost plan in 2021 is something that's doable at this point. I bet embellish it and build it out as the restrictions perhaps come off. And then there's joy in saying, okay. We can have another 20 people or 30 people, or we could do this. So we don't have to do that where it becomes more exciting and more embellished. But don't start out. I then have to bring it down like this to a funnel. That is crazy. The other thing is too, is that I have couples who are saying, you know, what. Get married once. We're going to get, we're going to do a small wedding. Then we're going to do. A renewal with this group, but then we're going to go over here and have a party with that group. It's like a year of celebration. So it's just looking at this and going, we're getting married. We have each other, as Alan said, you're marrying the sweetheart that you're going to walk life with. And know that anything you do on the way to that marriage that celebrates for the two of you, the couple is all good. It's all good. It's all good. And that's that? Great. That's a great place to end it. I want to thank you guys so much again, you know, I know it's just the, the goal of this is to just have conversations. Right. And I think, I think you all get that. And I know that there's just been a lot of. Uh, just good stuff to come out of this, you know, in each week's kind of different, but I think having, you know, conversations like this and touching on topics is I think important, no matter what, we kind of what comes out of it. So I really appreciate everybody taking the time today.

Episode 20 - Making the Most of Your Time at Home

Well, Kelsey, thank you so much for being here today. I think this is going to be a lot of fun. Kelsey was on the gets new your wedding pro podcast a couple of weeks ago. She's a hair. A stylist and also a, a business coach, which is really kind of, we got talking a lot about different things. Business owners could be doing, you know, at home in general. And so I kind of had this idea of doing a. Making the best of your time at home right now. You know, weddings people, you know, we're, we're ending whatever this terrible wedding season was, you know, just for business and everything else. And I really, I love, you know, uh, marketing, branding, working on things. I was thinking about this before we were recording. If there was a job where I could just like make Facebook list scenes and things for people, like, I just love all that little minutia stuff, which is not really exciting, but. I think this is going to be great. We're going to go through a, if you're a wedding vendor today, and even if you're not, you know, if you're someone and you have your own business, if you, if you work for yourself, if you want to improve. Kind of the way you do anything. I think this is going to have a lot of benefits. So we have Kelsey here with Kelsey Murray Knutson. Uh, thank you so much for coming on. Why don't you tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do. Yeah, thanks for having me on the show. I, as you mentioned, am a hair stylist by trade, but I also have a business degree in entrepreneurship. I've worked at, in the startup world. I have done hair and makeup for the wedding industry. I've led a team of hair and makeup people. So I've worn a lot of different hats in my time. And that plus COVID has all kind of. Caused me to just reprioritize what I really want to focus on and grow. And that is this business coaching space. I'm really passionate about helping people get started and grow businesses. They are really passionate about and creating some, you know, work-life balance within that. So that's kind of my mission. Uh, my name is my brand. As of now. Just to keep it easy for you to find me on the internet. And yeah, I'm so excited to have this conversation. I think during this time, and especially the wedding industry specifically, there was such a. What do we do with our time? If we can't work in our normal capacity? You know, initially I think a lot of us had like a grief process of what that was and how to pivot, how to adapt. So today we kind of have some ideas to talk through on ways you can work on your business, literally right from your home, right from your couch for free, just to help you get on the path to growth for the years to come. Yeah, it's really something that I'm passionate about. And obviously I'm speaking as, um, you know, like Dorothy and I don't have kids. I definitely understand that, that there's people in business owners that have a lot of other things going on. I absolutely understand that, but. You know, I remember back in March, you know, we do the, get to know your wedding pro you know, every week we're doing a new wedding vendor interview. And when, when March hit and, you know, kind of things shut down, I thought, well, I'm going to get a million of these podcasts, you know, recorded and people are sitting around and wanting to do everything. And we didn't get, I mean, it was a struggle to get anything. And I think it's so easy when, when things are. Kind of just slow. It's really hard to kind of find that motivation sometimes. And I don't know if everybody feels that way, you know, I don't, but I, I see that in people and I see. Just law. I don't know what to do as a man. You know, I mean, I, I'm trying to get out, trying to post up, you know, you're trying to, you know, all these different things. And so that's my goal today is, you know, wedding vendors, listening, you know, whether some things we can do, um, to just to make the best of our time to grow everything, uh, Kelsey is, is kind of the expert on this. We did this a couple of weeks ago with grace. Talking about a wedding planning wellbeing, and kind of the mentality behind getting to know, you know, couples and getting to know your partner. And that works great. And I think this is going to work today, too. Great with her going through Kelsey, going through just some, some, you know, top five things that we can work on. So we're where do you want to start? Where are we going here? Yeah. I first off with the mindset stuff and just getting started. I think there's initially, like we can't do anything, so I'm just not going to do anything. And then the realization like, okay, I should do something. And then it's like, well, what do I do? So I think. That third phase is kind of what we're speaking to today. Those people who realize I should probably there's things I could probably work on and just not really knowing where to get started or how so I'm just gonna start with number one. I made a list of five. We'll hit all five. And I'll start with number one in green. You let me know if you want me to pause or expand on anything. Perfect. Yeah, number one is super easy. And it's to reach out to your clients and serve them. And this is not like, Hey, come by for me. Hey, let's book your next wedding. I mean, heck they don't know. For a lot of people it's like, they don't know what they're doing, but just a simple, customized way to reach out to your clients, whether that's social media and email, that's personalized to them. I even got addresses of my repeat clients in the salon and just wrote them a handwritten card. Just thinking of you during this crazy time. Hope you're doing well, no strings attached, no expectations, but that a little bit goes a really long way. We're all service providers. We provide a service and I think that is where you can really stick out and be different, especially during this time and role also human beings. So it was. Just opening up that olive branch and who knows. Down the road, maybe they were thinking of booking with you, or maybe they wanted to support you in a different way. Or maybe like me, I pivoted into a brand new business. It opened up a door for that conversation that came from an authentic place, rather than here. Let me just continue to sell from you because I'm desperate. So that's number one is to reach out and serve your audience. I love that I think, and that's something, you know, I always try to do. And it's so funny because I don't, you know, I post a lot online and I don't have that many followers, so I kind of can keep an eye on like, who is looking at things, you know, I'm not that popular of a guy. And it's funny to me, cause I always. Uh, you know, anniversaries are a huge thing for me. I always, you know, uh, if they're on Instagram, you know, tag them, otherwise I send an email. And it's so interesting. Um, The photographers of the weddings that I'm at, or even like other videographers. You know, I do all this, somebody doing you guys like, like, have you ever, like, why isn't everybody doing this? Right. Like this is it that challenging? You know, I have, uh, you know, like you were saying you collect emails or, um, you know, addresses. I just, I have a spreadsheet it's really not that hard. And when the wedding comes up, You put it on the spreadsheet and then you have this red sheet, you can set up reminders or email you or whatever you want to do. Nothing's automated. I mean, I send everything, but you can, you can set up these things. It's not. Why do you think, um, do you, I mean, I don't know why people struggle so much without, I mean, I know that's a difficult thing, but just, you know, little things like that, but it seems like people just don't even think about doing sometimes. I think sometimes people get really caught up in the initial interaction they're having with a client and especially in the wedding industry. You're part of a moment which is so cool that you could really be a part of the whole journey, regardless of what type of vendor you are. And if you also just in any business, you know, you think of the customer journey and the relationship you have with people can extend beyond just that first initial service they bought from you and people. I think just don't think of it from that perspective. And I'm sure there's people who you tag it with, reach out to who maybe. They unfollow you over time that evolves and changes, but I don't know. Who cares, at least you tried. And I think just coming from a really genuine place of like, Hey, I just care about you. And I think you're great. It goes so much further than that way. When you do come to a point where you are trying to book clients, They're already prepared for that because they've already been hearing from you. So I think that's the key thing is it's not disingenuous. It's not a, you're doing it to get something back. It really. I'm definitely trying to wish them well, check in, see how the, you know, yeah. It's definitely not. There's no strings attached. Like you said, you know, sending your letters and stuff out. I think that's very important is to make that differentiation right. Yeah, and it just feels good because then, you know, not everyone's gonna respond, but sometimes people do. And when you're just in that stuck, like, I don't have a ton of great motivation to work off of right now. It's so empowering to have someone reach back and be like, thank you for thinking of me. That meant so much, those little things go so far. And like I said, this doesn't have to be a big ordeal. It could be an email. It could be a simple Instagram message. It could be a Facebook message. It could be a handwritten note, a postcard, whatever, but just having that personal touch, I think goes a really long way. We had a wedding. Uh, I think it was. Five six years ago. It was right after I had just quit my job. It was like that first, um, spring. I can't remember if it was like may or, you know, kind of that first year. You know, very little correspondence, right? I mean, nowadays I try to be a lot more whatever, but this was very much just like, I, you know, I booked somebody, you know, we did the wedding. It was great. They were happy with ever. And I had sent them an email last year and her husband is in the armed services. I can't remember what branch. And I had sent them a note and I was like, man, you know, cause sometimes you're like, I hope they're still together. I don't really know. You know, really don't know what's going on here. And I'm really not trying to like, you know, open any wounds or whatever. And she goes, he writes back. Thank you so much. I think they were living in Japan or something now. Like he got deployed, they have a kid, they show, she goes, we had just showed our two year old, our wedding video the night before, like thank you so much for whatever. And I'm like, man, that's so cool. You know, I would never have known any of that. Right. And that, to. Just remake that connection after whatever it had been five, six years, I just thought was so neat. And that wasn't anything. Um, you know, but hopefully, you know, down the line, if people need things or whatever, did they'll remember that we kind of have these connections going on, right. Totally. And I think to your point awhile ago, when you're talking about posting on social media, Yes, that's the marketing strategy, but that's passive. That's saying like, Hey, I'm putting this thing for here, but you have to kind of find it this by reaching out to people that is actually being proactive. So that's the difference here? Did you give a guy a lot of good reaction sending out those things like he did. Yeah. I, especially when I, my salon was shut down and I really couldn't work in that normal capacity. Um, I had clients who had bought product and left reviews. They asked how to support me. And I gave like giving, giving reviews and you can buy salon product from me. I'm an online store, or you can buy a gift card. And then I wrote the thank you cards to all of those clients, but they were all just so supportive and appreciative. And that is, um, what prompted me to do it in the first place. And then I just reached out to everyone because I had the time and I miss people. Like we're in this because we love people. So that was part of it too. Yeah. I just think it's so, especially we, you know, we work from home, you know, a lot of us don't have employees. I think having those connections I think is invaluable and they're really. I think makes you feel, uh, you know, if you are struggling with work or booking things or it is slow, I think just knowing you're making that difference in whatever vendor field you're in is, is really helpful. I know that it makes me feel. Better, you know, that I'm doing something that I definitely think that other people could do. Totally. Yeah. So should we go to number two? Yeah, you'll love this one. So number two, I wrote down to blog blog podcast to find another way to connect with your audience. And I think this is especially important in our industry where we get so caught up in what we do that we don't realize we can actually serve and connect with people in a different way. Uh, so for me in the blogging space, I, I like writing. So I chose blogging. I think it's important to pick the medium that you enjoy most, and that you'll actually do. And it's just a great way to stay in contact with your clients. So then when you are ready to book. They are thinking of 21, 2021, 2022 weddings. You're a friend of mine because you continue this conversation and built this relationship. During this time. And so one pick up a, um, Medium that you enjoy doing, and then just list out things that you're passionate about. That kind of, kind of relate to what you do, but also sprinkle in your expertise in your personality. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think, um, blogging is such an underrated. I did. A wedding network, Seattle and I don't something happened. It never got posted. They reached out to me to write a blog back in like April. They were trying to I'm sure like this, trying to figure out, Hey, we need some content. Let's have some people write blogs. And I wrote a whole thing. About blogs, like a whole, a whole, it was a, it was a blog about blogging. And. You know, I don't like to write, I, I'm not good at it. I have a journalism minor. I'm terrible at writing, but I have my brother who is a phenomenal writer and I pay him to right, right. And so, so it's a, it's a symbiotic thing where, you know, he enjoys doing this and he, you know, I pay him, he makes money and then I don't have to do that. But then I have content to post all the time. And so. Yeah, these people that I don't like writing, I hate writing. That's never an excuse because even if, even if you don't, you can, you can find somebody and it's not like $1 million a blog post, you know? I mean, this is like normal, you know, you can find people on Ryan that online that we'll write for you for not a tremendous amount of money. And then you can, if that's not what you want to do with and focus on your passion. But then yes, I think it's great way to stay top of mind. Yeah. And it just, it creates that dialogue back and forth and that know like, and trust. And just because maybe someone's already worked with you. It gives them something to refer to other people. And if you, especially, if you show that you're valuable and you're an expert in whatever industry you are, then you're a resource for people. So for me, I had a free download. That was how to, how to wash your hair the right way. Because, so that's an issue I face all the time, both in this salon and with weddings. You know, bridesmaids, brides, and just not coming prepared. And for me, it was a way to get people's email addresses so I can continue that conversation beyond this initial moment. Uh, so just getting creative and writing about things you're interested in. I'm much more the hairstylists that would write something like that. Then, you know, here's my specific color, formally formula to use. That's just not my interest. I talk business with every person that's just who I am. So I'll always kind of tie those two together. There's ways you can blog and still have it relate to your industry, but be unique to you. And I think that's a big misconception too. Uh, uh, for context. So whether we at like it's October. Yeah. We just finished blogging about 2019 weddings last week. Yeah. And that's not like, Oh, we took six months off. And then that is, um, Posting at least once a week, if not 2 cents. You know, whatever the math. But we just finished last week and now I have a new project for a, you know, Scott to do, but, uh it's yeah, I mean, 20, 20 or otherwise, that was, that was our, we had our block schedule set up even before everything went crazy, whatever. And nothing changed with that. And we just kept posting stuff. Because it's not being more. Um, it's weird. Yeah, because you'll see people and if they're busy, they're posting posting, posting, but then, you know, there's vendors. I haven't heard from him in six months and you're immediately, you're, you know, you're not top of mind. Right. And it's, and that's not a good thing, but I think that it's a really way to easy way to combat that is by being relevant and posting things and staying top of mind. Worst case scenario, they see your name and they don't read it. I mean, you have nothing to lose by putting ourselves out there. And same with email, you know, you send an email. Even if they drag that email into their trash bin, they're seeing your name and they're remembering. Yeah. So I think showing up and having a strategy behind that is so important. So you talked about blogging, you talked about starting the podcast, like what other ideas. Uh, Any of those other ones you want to delve into, but while we're still on this. This topic like any other ideas? I mean, it could even be as simple as, Hey, I'm going to do an Instagram live once a month or once a week. It's just any content that is a little longer form that you can save and reuse for other things. And that's something you could download and repost somewhere else. That's somewhere. You could save it to your phone and put it in an email. So the idea being again, that if you're posting on Instagram, just as a post, that's great, but people have to come find you. The whole goal here is that you are kind of. Putting out longer form content that shows that you're an expert in what you're doing. And the other thing is not, everyone's gonna read every single caption that you write, so you can spend all day long on a caption and people might not read it. You could literally copy paste, have that be a blog and you may, you'll probably have different people read both of them. So not being afraid to repurpose content and the whole goal here again is just to get you in front of more people who will be a great fit for you. Also, um, you know, besides even just the. You know, getting people eyeballs on it. Uh, and the whole point of my blog posts was if nothing else at Google will read your blog posts. So even if, even if you post a million blog posts in, you know, brides or grooms or vendors or whoever doesn't read it, Google will read all that stuff. And that is really at the end of the day, that's really all that matters. I mean, everything else is built on this, right. We want to attract people and, and, um, You know, uh, get new business, but, but ultimately you're number one viewership will always be Google. And so if nothing else, I think that that is a very underrated. You know, like I post, we do, um, I, this is an example that we, I talked about on the, on the blog post. Uh, Scott does a blog post every week. It's called bizarre weather news. And it's just like a catch all it's like dumb stuff. You know, some NBA player got married, some whatever. I, you know, nobody reads it. Right. Who reads it? I don't know. But every week that Google goes, Oh, that's more wedding stuff on that website. That was more wedding stuff. That's more widely and stuff. And so then, yeah. And then besides posting it and people see my name go across, you know, Facebook, or like you said, Instagram. Uh, that ultimately too is another, is another key to that. Yeah. And then down the road, what if you get a client who can, you know, multiple clients ask you certain questions that keep coming up over and over, instead of you having to manually type out an answer, you can just refer them to your blog. I love that. Talk more about that. Give give more examples about that. I love that. Yeah. So some of the topics I cover, I think of like, what are the questions I get a lot? And then I literally just answer them and that's a blog. And then the concept being, you know, when you're in the DMS, when you are someone's Facebook messaging, you, when you're texting back and forth and you're getting those questions over and over again, instead of you having to spend so much time writing the same answer you can say, actually, I wrote a blog on this and then you give them a link and they can go visit on their own. So it just, there's so many different ways that that content can be used. And I'm not saying to do all of it. I'm just saying, pick one and try it out. And consistently try it out. Yeah, that's the thing too is about consistency. And I mean, this goes into the whole making the best of your time at home, but yeah, blogging once every six months is not, it does not mean anything. Anything for viewership for Google, for anything you need to bow, you know, blog at least once a week. Uh, all the time, you know, it really needs to be a consistent, yeah, I see this all the time. Hey, we're going to be starting this new thing. And then the week later it goes away. I'm like, give me up in six months when this is still going and then I'll, you know, then we'll see how it is. Yeah. Why do you, why do you think people struggle with that, with that, um, consistency in that way as someone that coaches people and works through that? Oh, I that's. My list is stems from like, here's why I'm telling my clients right now. So I think a big part of it is a not really having a plan. So I map out like, what's my plan for the whole year. And then I kind of break it down into each quarter. I have kind of a goal I'm going towards, and then my blogs kind of feed into that. That way I can hit multiple birds with one stone. You know, so if I write a blog about one of the things I talk about in coaching is money management, just something I'm passionate about. And so I have a whole blog on like my five tips to manage your money better. And then I chunk that out. That's five Instagram posts I was able to make. And then I repurpose that to a newsletter. So that one thing served me, you know, a total of seven different ways. And so I think number one is people just don't have a strategy behind it. And two, they don't backlog stuff. So they start like, they're building content in the moment. Like, I need a post on Instagram today. I'm going to write this today. Or I need a blog tomorrow. I'm going to write it today. And I think the more you can kind of have a plan going into it, and then also have a couple of things in the backlog that you've already created. That way when you wake up and you're just in a bad mood or you're not feeling great, like your business is still solid. And I think that's super important beyond just the blogs and content and blogs and all that stuff, running social media, all that stuff you should have, like your bare minimum. If I just show up the bare minimum this week, what does that look like? And then anything extra is extra. Yeah, I totally agree. And I think having that, having that stash kind of ready to go, like I said, you know, you don't like to write, find somebody's Scott put stuff in the Google drive and then I wake up, I go, I got to post the blog today. Here we go. Right. And it's. You know, okay. If I, if I would have to do that, I would hate that I would hate to have to like wake up today and go, okay, I gotta write a thousand words about whatever. So find somebody that wants to do that. Or maybe, maybe you have a high school, you know, maybe you're a parent and you have a kid that we need some money and likes to write or likes to do whatever. Like, so I know, I think I read one of our photographer friend. She's been on the podcast. I think one of her kids does her Instagram, you know, does her social media and stuff? Well, there you go. Irene probably hates doing that. You know, you have a teenager. That's a good at bat. You know, uh, get the best out of both worlds with that. But my question for you when you're talking about scheduling things. How in the weeds do you get, um, because I, there could be overwhelming or not. You look at it in terms of like quarters or weeks or days, or how do you, what's the ideal way you think to do that? Yeah. So I, I try to do it by quarter because 2020s taught me a lot about planning too far out. Um, so each quarter I kind of sit down, I write my goals and pen, but I write my today's in pencil. And I think that's really important because I think he should have like a strong direction that you want to go and identify what success looks like to you, and then having those steps to get you there, realizing that sometimes things change and evolve, but having that you're generally moving closer to that goal in time. I think that is the key more than anything else. So if you have a Monday where you literally. We get nothing done, but Tuesday you get double the work done. That's great. It doesn't matter. You're still getting closer to your goals. And as far as like scheduling out the content again, that's where having like a direction of where I'm guiding people some weeks. My goal is just to serve. I'm just giving free stuff. I just want to help people. I have no expectations. I'm not selling anything directly. That's the goal for the week. That's my tone for the week. Other weeks, I'm launching new products, new programs, new academies. So just always knowing like, I sit down every Monday to plan out my content and think, okay, what's going on this week. What's kind of coming up next. And then I slowly will guide the direction, the conversation, that direction, that way. It's not like I'm ambushing people with all of these sales that I'm trying to make. Ah, I love that. So, uh, to do as an era goals and pen to do's in pencil. Yes. I love it. Cause I do. I think some people I'm going to schedule all this stuff and when they do everything and then you miss one day, because you have to work or a client calls in, or your kid's sick or you have to go whatever, and then you go. Well, that's it. The whole thing's out the window is that you need to, yeah, you definitely need to, you want structure, but a little flexibility, right? Totally. Yeah. And that that's actually my third point. So that's a great segue for you not knowing what I had planned. The number three was to automate and streamline. And part of that is social media and, and your messaging there. And I think just paying attention to when you work best. So for awhile, for me, I was planning on Sundays and I was dreading it because Sunday is like, definitely isn't, it should be a day off. And so then I was like, Oh, what if I just plan on Mondays? And so I started doing that and it's game-changing so every Monday I sit down. I map out my blog, my newsletter, my social media. I have kind of each, I have different themes for each, um, platform that I use. And I just, it's a Google spreadsheet that I made, basically. So like, One thing I will always talk about every single week is my story. One thing I will always talk about every single week is my business and how we can work together. And then I had like a couple of different like buckets that I have already labeled. So then I pull from those depending on when it's appropriate. And I think that is super helpful. In terms of, you know, automating, I think some people get maybe a little intimidated by that or get a little, you know, so I guess if you had to simplify that for someone that's like, Hey, I don't really. I'm not, you know, I'm not on a, uh, business coaching podcast. You know, why. Walk me through kind of, what does that look like for someone that maybe wants to get their feet wet? What are the tasks you hate doing that take a ton of your time that are consistently kind of the same thing. Everything's always going to have a little bit of tweaking. And for me back putting on my wedding vendor hat, that was like my client experience at all. Just the emails back and forth and that initial email. And then do we do a call? Do we not do a call? So I really just sat down and I was like, what do I want that process to look like? I'm in control. This is my business. And ultimately. I want it to be available. I want to be professional. I want to have such a good understanding of my bride that all know once we sign that contract, that we are a great fit. And if not, I already know enough to say, you know, thank you for reaching out. I don't think we're the right fit. And for me, that was just finding a system that can help support all of that stuff. So step one was to just kind of list out what tasks are super redundant and time, time sucking. And then step two is to kind of research different options out there. I use HoneyBook for all my scheduling and like, Everything is in their invoice. Um, everything start to finish with entire relationship with the brightest through HoneyBook. And so that's what I personally use, but just finding whatever system works for you that will help that process be a little more streamlined. Yeah, I, and I think that's definitely the thing is, is experimenting and trying to find, you know, I know like a ton of people, 17 hats, or you have HoneyBook and you have. The. Tove lo or a Tavey. Tavey is the other one. You know, I use just like this master web of Google docs and sheets and kind of redirects, but it's like, whatever works for you. But yeah, that, that whole, you. The back and forth. Just the paperwork. I think there's a fine line. I think you want to automate, but then I've also known photographers, the other almost like too automated. And then it's almost like a turnoff to the client because then they do feel like they're working with like a robot. So it is that fine line where you want to, like you said that, you know, th the. The time sucking stuff you don't want to deal with, but you still really need to be there for your client. Right. Yeah. And I think the key to that, um, issue is that be really mindful of your words that you use. You can update and customize any of the emails, even if they're automated, you can go in and customize them and really be thoughtful of how would you say this in person and in a gray area? I see this totally feeling for people is their bios on their website. You know, so many times you go to read it and it reads like an essay they wrote in ninth grade when they were writing about someone else. And it, it should feel like your personality shining through. I think also this idea of writing in third person is kind of old school. I don't know where you're at with that, but I think, I think it's okay to write in first person, you can still sound professional in sound like the professional that still have more of your personality shine through. And I think that's the key there is. If you're gonna automate something, it has to be your voice. I mean, another example for me in the salon, um, I have automated. Texts, you know, when you book your appointment, you gotta appointment confirmation. Don't let the automated one go through, go through and make it sound like you. So like for me, a lot of verbiage I use is like, Hey friends, so great to see you. Can't wait to see you this date. Can we to catch up on X, Y, Z, it's super customizable. The thing itself is automated, but it's my voice. And I think that's exactly what you were kind of speaking to. I think that's the missing link. If someone gets too automated and what they're doing, they're not letting their voice come through in that process. Yeah, because ultimately at the end of the day, people are going to hire you. You know who you are. And so it is, cause I, I go to the way I've been to the wedding MBA twice now, down in Vegas, it's like a, I don't know if you've ever gone to like, is it's the business this year, they're doing it all digital. Cause you know, Vegas is, is, you know, we'll everywhere is pretty shut down, but. Uh, they talk a lot on there about, cause it's the business of running weddings. It's a business, you know, that's, it's like the wedding MBA, you know, the business of it and you get all these people and I see them taking all these notes. Well, I'm just, I'm going to automate everything. I'm never gonna, I'm never gonna touch the phone again. I'm never going to do. And it's, it's really that balance because ultimately people are still going to hire you for who you are. And so it's, it's getting that, that. Like w when people book with me, like it pre-fills out the contract, I don't know. I still send it back, but you don't, you don't want to have it be out of your hands the whole time, ping pong, back and forth. You need to have some control on there every once in a while. So, absolutely. And it's finding that balance, but I just know so many people who also just don't have any processes and how they're engaging with clients and it shows so having some kind of framework I think is really important. Yeah. What is that? Like if you, if you get a new client and they're having like no idea, is that like panic mode, how do you approach that? Do you mean like a new client for me and the business world or what? Yeah. Like I may have no processes at all. Or. Like it's honestly, I kind of geek out on it. It's like having a massive drunk drawer with just like, so much different stuff in it. And I'm like, let's dump it all out. And it's amazing how much clarity comes just from identifying. Okay. This all kind of goes together. Okay. We'll tackle this thing and this thing and that, um, yeah, I love that process because I'm helping them do it, but I don't have to live in that chaos. That's their chaos. Yeah. I'm a firm believer on, like, you have to find the process that works best for you. Everyone's different, you know, I'm very much a Google, Google calendar person. My entire life is on there, but there's people who are still writing planners. It doesn't matter. As long as you're doing it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with that. It doesn't matter. What Avenue you want to do, but you do need to stick with it and be consistent. Uh, whether we got for number four. That's also a great segue. Um, It's money stuff. It's setting a budget, I think right now is a great time to really look at your business. And really identify where your money is going. Especially as a small business owner, it's so easy to get caught up and like, Oh, I'm just growing. I'm reinvesting in my business. I'm growing. So I'm gonna throw more money in it. I know, I know we've talked about this before, too, and I think that really being mindful of what is that money going to do for you? And also there's something empowering about running a really lean business. And it doesn't mean that you should be eating top ramen every day and like doing all your own QuickBooks to save 1 penny. That's not the point. It's just being aware of where that money is going and having kind of. Once you're aware of where that money is going. Then when those bigger expenses come up or you are getting ready to buy something new, you really are able to identify, do I really need to do this now? Or am I just getting distracted? Yeah, it's a fine line. I was just joking with, uh, Mike. I don't know if he'll even listen to this, but Mike. He's a photographer and he was messaging me yesterday and he was like, Hey, you know, I need a new hard drive for my Apple time machine. And he said, you know, do you use Apple time machine for your Mac? And what do you use? And I said, Oh, you know, whatever. And. He photographers are so funny that they'll have like one hard drive. Did they use for like 10 years? I'm like throw like 50 bucks. Yeah. I mean, there's a line there. You can, you can have a couple, we don't need to be, he goes, well, I'm going to partition it. So I'm going to have some of my stuff on there. And then also at the time, I'm like do for 50, but you need to be able to spend money on your business, even though you don't want to just be throwing everything out the window, but you do need to. Invest in there. There's a line there again. Totally. And I think it's that I really speak to that fine line of like business meets personal, because I think there's so many resources for both and not very many people like speak to that transition because for us, that line is complicated. It's easy to be like, Oh, I need this. I need quick bucks, but I'm also going to file my personal return, but I am going to use it for my business. And that's our reality is there's so many financial choices that are like that, that kind of straddle that line. So I'm a huge proponent of. Coming up with a system with how you manage your money for both. So that way you're making a living because that's part of why we run it. We start our own businesses as we want to have that freedom and flexibility. And B also your business should be growing as well and getting real with the numbers. It helps you realize like, wow, I made, I don't know, 60,000, but I reinvested 50 and my business. And it's like, okay, so you paid yourself 10 grand. Was it really worth it for an entire year? Where could we have made some different choices? So I think that's. I mean, I really get into the nitty gritty and the numbers and the percentages and all of that in the courses I offer. But money is just, it's such a necessary topic. So yeah. And we, yeah, we had talked about that on your, get to know your wedding pro how. Yeah, back in March, we're kinda all this happened. And it really was a frightening, just a lot of people, a lot of vendors, they have, you know, book a lot to do a lot of, you know, a lot of business. And then everything shut down for like three weeks. And they're like, I don't, you know, I got to afford my house next month. And, but the, but it's so true. And they, you know, there's always these statistics that say, you know, 60% of Americans, if they owe $400 for something like they wouldn't have it, you know, you always hear that. You think that is really scary and it is, but that also goes. To running the business and it's about. You know, putting some money away and being smart. I mean, what do you. You know, not to give away all the, all the secrets, but I mean, how do you, uh, work with people on that, you know, in as much ways that you want to, you know, give out on this? Yeah, I would say, Oh totally. I'm all for, I share all the things. I have no fear of that. Um, I would say number one, get really intimate with those numbers of how much am I spending in my business to run it? How much money is coming in my business? How much am I set is setting aside for taxes. I do that every month. I just move a certain amount to attacks bank account that I it's just a savings. Account and you literally can change the name. So I just say taxes 15%. Every month, that amount goes over. I think another key thing is pay yourself first. You know, so often we're like we pay ourselves last. What happens when you do that is you're going to spend, spend, spend, spend, and then you're really not going to pay yourself enough to live off of. And that's when we do things like rely on our partner to take care of us. Keep that second job we don't need. Uh, live on a budget and never get out of that or incur debt. So there's so many negatives by living that way. So I always start with money, goes off to taxes. 50% goes to you. You're paying yourself. And then I always pay profit every month. I had set aside money for profit and at the end of the year, I, my own business. So I decide where that money goes. Whether I want to reinvest in that brand new camera or a laptop, or maybe I hire a business coach, or maybe I put that towards retirement. So just having those systems in place, I would say, number one, look at your numbers. Number two, pay herself half set aside, money for taxes, and then also work towards starting a profit. And if you want to read a book, that's about this profit first is definitely the place I would go. If you haven't read it already. It's super. It really gives you the exact percentages for your business in which is this profit first. Yeah, it's astounding. We used to watch a lot of shark tank, um, you know, the whole where people invest their businesses and whatever. And it's always astounding to me is sometimes you'll go on there. They'll say. Well, you know, we grossed $1 million last year or whatever, you know, they have a cheesecake company or whatever it is, but then they. You know, they, they didn't pay themselves at the end of the year. They only had $10,000 or whatever. That's like, that is so much work that you did, you know, all year or running you'll am. Like I'm, I'm a home base. Like I don't have locations I'm running. Right. I don't have employees I'm ready. And so when you do, and you know, all these costs go up and then, and then you're still only. You know, you just don't have that much left aside. It is. You're like, wow, that's a lot of work for not a lot of money. You know, it's really about. Tightening that up and being smarter about it. Yeah. And if you're not paying yourself that 50% each month, you're stealing from yourself to fund your business. What you should really be asking yourself is how can I, I need to make more money in my business. How can I grow that? You know, by forcing that kind of tight budget and having that 50% hard line, this is for my salary. This is me as an employee. It forces you to get innovative in your business. And that's when you start to see some real honest areas that need growth and improvement even during COVID. I think there's so many. Choices here we have, especially with online, you can do an online course on. Anything. So there's just there's options here. Yeah. I'm as guilty as that before. Uh, COVID and before March I spent a lot of money every month on, on guys to help me with web stuff. And I would still do a lot of the day-to-day, but kind of like. You know, back in kind of building links and stuff and whatever, and it was a lie, it was a ton of money. I mean, it really was. And, you know, in March. You know, not, you know, basically having your calendar dry up. And not having that as like a crutch. I figured all that out. Right. And it's, it's, that's a ton more money now that I'm able to save and not either, hopefully still getting the same benefits. Right. And not that it's not worth paying professionals to do some things, but. If you can do things yourself in that way and then keep that money and reinvest it. Cause that's like a camera or to, you know, I mean, there's a lot of stuff that you can buy, you know, too. That you might need versus paying somebody. You know, I know that goes against kind of my previous, you know, pay people to blog if you don't want to, but it's about being smart, right? It's about trying to figure out that balance. Yeah, exactly. And it just forces innovation and you knowing how to do it. Now, when you do outsource that again, you're going to have a better idea of what specifically you want to outsource. Or maybe you wait a little longer and then you can actually outside outsource more of your business. So I told him I'm a huge believer in outsourcing. I think you just also need to be really aware of spending too. Yeah, I think, uh, it's just, it's so tough. Yeah. You want to. It's important not to do the things that you don't know how to do, but then you also don't want to overpay for it. So I definitely understand that the tight rope there, uh, what, what do we got for number five? And then we'll get into I'm sure we'll get into this and other stuff after that. Yeah. So number five is build relationships and that is looking at your past clients. How did they find you? And if they were referred by people, reaching out to those people and just thinking then. And having a system built in place to thank them in the future. I'm in the wedding space, that's typically other vendors. So what are you doing to connect with them? Exactly what you were saying earlier, how some people have totally dropped off the face of the earth. That's probably going to change whether you're going to refer them down the road and like, how attack is it to be like, Oh, you know, go work with Kelsey she's hair and makeup. I haven't heard much from her, but I think she's still in the industry. Like that's not a huge vote of confidence that you're putting into that referral. So I think referring to other people in the industry is super important. And again, That's the simple, just, Hey, what's your, your physical mailing address. I'd love to send you something. Maybe you send them a little. Thank you. Maybe if you're a DJ, you send them a little mix tape. Like there's so many little touches we can do to connect with those people, because that is how we're going to survive all of this. Yeah, absolutely. And it's, again, back to your first point about reaching out to clients too. It's not, you're not just doing it for the business. No, let me do it. You know, the P the vendors that I work with, we are friends and, and, and they know that right. And not only is that. Better for us day off. It's better for the client and it's better. Long-term it's this whole thing, but yeah, it's uh, it's. I always think people, if I get a referral that comes in from like a photographer or something, but you would be amazed how many people don't you. I'm sure they did. They get referrals and then, and they never, you know, never think, you know, Hey, you know, the buildings for that. Like, I really appreciate it. Cause you, you would like to know that you're kind of all in that together. Totally. And I think if you don't have some kind of process like that, build one where it's like, okay, anytime I get a referral, I'm going to write them a handwritten thank you card and send him chocolate, or I'm going to send them a personalized email. Like whatever that trigger is, make sure you have that built out in those reminders. So that way, you know, to do it and it doesn't fall through the cracks. Um, and referrals come from anyone. I mean, I had C-Town suites referred me all the time cause we're friends in real life, her and Holly and, um, but normally I would never see the person who makes the cake, like just with my job in the wedding world. Those are two very different vendors, but it doesn't have to be exactly who you think it is. It's worth putting. All your feelers out there. And I think that goes a long way. Well, even just speaking to Bobby made it. I mean, I even know that there's, um, there's companies that do that, right. They do like if you book clients, you know, they'll, you can audit. They'll send like date and not that. You know, you want to walk that line, but you could, you know, you can automate and it'll send them a thank-you card or they'll send them a gift. I mean, there are companies that do that. So if that's something that you really care about, I I've always. And you might have thoughts about, I would be curious your thoughts. I've always kind of struggled if I wanted to do that or not. You and me and Mike, where you have it, like automatically send out like referral gifts or something like a real estate agent would do, have you ever heard or dabbled in. I've heard of that? Um, no, I just sent, I just think like a personal email or no is way better. Yeah. But it's, you know, it's. You definitely want to, you know, show your appreciation somehow. That's important. Exactly. And just knowing, like I said, just having some place where you're. The thought that you're going to keep all this stuff just like in your mind is just not realistic. So having some kind of, whether it's an Excel spreadsheet or you write it in your calendar, or you have like a handwritten list of clients to thank for sending referrals, whatever that is. I think that's really important. Yeah, it's not hard to set up. I mean, you'd be amazed at how easy it is with like Google sheets and stuff, but, you know, having, like I said before, having the list of wedding dates. Client names and emails, having a list of just all your client emails in the database, or you can break that up. I mean, it's really. You know, and a lot of that stuff, you know, you can pay for HoneyBook or 17 hats or whatever, but a lot of that stuff you can get for free. Totally. And other plugins, and it's just about finding your comfort level and in, you know, finding what works for you, but it doesn't need to be, you got, you have to start somewhere. You have to start somewhere. I remember, I think it was, um, Laurie, Laurie losi. She's been on the podcast. She's a wedding planner. And after the first wedding MBA, I noticed that she always did like anniversary stuff. And then I messaged her and I say, Lori, like, how, how the heck do you keep all that? You know, how do you keep all that straight? And she said, I, you know, I just keep a Google sheet, you know, it's not like, it's not like it's some big, crazy secret. Right. It's it's a lot of these tricks are really simple. Right? Totally. Yeah. Yeah. And if you're bad at remembering make notes for yourself, you know, um, I working in the salon, I have a really great memory. I'm horrible with names. So, but I will remember random facts and people, and my clients love that. I'll be like, well, how was your daughter's graduation? Or how was your son's musical performance? They love stuff like that. And if it doesn't come natural to you have little notes that. After that phone call that email, those meetings, you. It'll force you to remind it at anytime you can add a personal touch. I think that just in our industry, especially goes a long way. And I think when it comes to other vendors, instead of having this, I don't think there's, there is a little bit of like a competition, a mindset for some people. But I think in general, just reaching out to others, being supportive, asking how they're doing, asking how you can support them and just providing that support, I think is so important. Yeah, I think that's something that the older school wedding vendors were better at the remembering, like the small details in, in, and I know that, um, you know, Alan and Greg are DJs. They're, they're really good at that am like Alan could do a wedding from, you know, 10 years ago and still tell you, Oh, they had a dog that's Nate, or, you know, her grandma, whatever. They're really good at that. And I do think that maybe in our society now, just kind of the go, go, go. We forget some of that stuff, but it is so valuable. Do you remember those details and to have someone call up. I've had. Like past brides, email me, like for real estate stuff are all, Hey, you did my wedding three years ago. I'm like, of course I know I did your wedding three years ago. Like how would I not know that? But people don't. I expect that nowadays you. Yeah. So let's change that. What are w when someone in, so now we're kind of free or FreeWheel in here. Uh, when people. And we talked a little bit about this on your other podcast. Big things. When someone comes to you and needs help. What are the common things that people are really struggling with now? And it could be a repeat of some of the stuff we've talked about, but whether people really struggling with in 2020, just, um, Kobe, this side, just with business stuff. Yeah, I think it's kind of like the problem versus solution question. I think so many people are like, Oh, I just need to get better on Instagram. I know. I need to post more. Or I need to really engage more on Pinterest. And usually when we start there, that's actually not the problem. It's walking it back to like, okay, who is your ideal client? What's your brand? What's your story? What's your. Personality and really coming up with a strategy of what that looks like, like for me and my business brand, I love working with all kinds of people. I'm kind of a tomboy. Like I'm a tomboy who likes hair and makeup. It doesn't make sense, but that's just who I am. So I'm never going to use the term boss, babe. And it doesn't mean. I have any issue with those words, but it just doesn't align with my brand. When you hear me type, talk, text anything, I just, I'm not going to use those words. So really being clear about your brand and your messaging, and it should be so consistent that when people visit your website, when they talk to you in person, when they talk to you on a phone, it all feels the same. And I think a lot of people don't do the due diligence of establishing that first. And especially now, when we have some time, that was a great time to revisit those things. And if you're thinking of kind of rebranding or getting more clear on who your brand is or making. Making some tweaks. I just use Pinterest and make a mood board. And I don't just like start with, Oh, brand colors and fonts. It's like, what vibe do I want people to feel? And it's like, I talk about football and drinking beer. And I also like wine. And I also like, you know, fall. And so like just what's the whole vibe you can put together and that will help you visually see what your brand is. And then you can start to think of what words make sense. What, like what little little Kelsey is ans I call them like what little bits of you are consistently a part of your. Brand then when you go to your Instagram, you're going to have more of a strategy behind it. Do you think that when it comes to, you know, all the different social medias, all the different things nowadays. There's a lot of people that don't do any of that. Or they get overwhelmed and then they're just like, I'm just not going to do any event. Like, I don't even know, like, I don't even know what to do. What do you, what do you say to people like that? That. I just, I kind of give up or I just that's too much for me. Yeah. I would say a start with what I was just talking about with the brand stuff and who you're trying to reach out to and who you are. And then B I would just start with one and start super small. Like what can you commit to bare minimum consistently if that's one day a week. Great. But show up that one day a week and commit to that. And I think once you know who you're talking to you and how you're talking, it's so much easier than it's not this like, Oh, I just need to do it, but don't really know what I'm doing. It's like, no, I'm talking to the 30 year old who wants to allow, who loves the mountains and loves nature. And she has a golden retriever and her partner and her go hiking all the time. Like I can visualize that person. It's so much easier to talk to them when you can picture that. Then when you pull up Instagram to post, you are using those words to talk to that person. So I would say start simple, this idea that like, We got to do all the things and do it everywhere all the time is just way too overwhelming, especially to people who have been in the industry for awhile. Um, maybe a different generation. I think that was the number, the key I would start with, like what platform can you start with and show up consistently. And then just that consistency will be a huge lesson over time. You'll see what works and what doesn't. Then you can build off of that. Yeah. When the whole idea. Cause I never, I kind of miss the whole Snapchat thing. I just wasn't and I know it's still kind of whatever, but when it was like the Instagram stories and I didn't know any of that stuff, right. I mean, I'm not, you know, I worked in news and we kind of did, they wanted us to kind of do the Twitter thing, but that w you know, it was like tweeting, you know, there's a car accident or whatever, a tweet. But like, I never knew when I got into wedding and some like what, unless I'm posting, you know, a new wedding video, like, what am I right. Like one of my posts and it's about figuring it out and figuring out what works for you. And. Hey, I'm sending the email. I'm sending the video to the bride's snap, a photo tagging. Hey Natalie, your video's coming, you know, but like, At least in my world then if there are other couples and I have booked that are viewing that like, Oh wow, that's really cool. Like, I'll be excited when he's working on my stuff, you know, it's starting small and kind of figuring out. Knowing that no, one's really. You know, as an expert when they start right. No. Absolutely not. And I think a, you have to just kinda come up with a plan. You have to consistently do it, and then you have to just try new things and not be afraid of that. And having some metrics, you know, to me, I don't care how many followers I have. I care how many clients I book and if I have a hundred followers, but I have 10 clients, that's pretty darn good. So not being so obsessed with this idea of having all these followers, I'd rather have really great, consistent people who are part of my tribe, who actually engaged with me and want to hang out with me. And they believe in me versus growing that arbitrary numbers. So I don't pay too much mind to that. I paid attention to who engages with me and what they're saying. I used to care so much about that. Like the Instagram followers, like I used to be like, Oh, I got one more, got whatever. But like you said, it's, it's. Yeah, you could have 10 people and every single one of them books, you, you know, for what, whatever your service is every single month and that's way better than having 10,000 people that no one cares about or whatever. But it is hard, right? It's hard to figure that out. It is, especially when everyone's telling us that we should care early. If it feels that way, all the experts, right? Yeah. The other thing I just wanted to circle back when you were talking about, you know, figuring out your mood board and the words in the vibes and stuff. And I do think that some people might like hear that and they're like, well, that's like overkill or who does that? Or who would ever. Even if, if it's not those, the same words and everything, the couples that are looking at your site are thinking those things in that different way. Right. So like, Just because you don't necessarily know like what your, your website is still putting something out there, whether or not you are intending it to be right. And so it's. You, you really do need to, to cultivate that stuff because whether or not you are intending that when someone goes to your site, they're getting a vibe and a perspective of you and it might be what you want it to be, or it might be not what you want it to be. But even if you're not thinking about that, that is still happening. So you want to very much take control of that and make sure that people right. Am I phrasing that right? Does that make sense? I call it. It's like a filtration system. So if you do that really well and you do it everywhere, website emails. Social media, meaning, you know, your brand, you know, your voice and you're consistent. And that by the time someone books with you, that first initial discovery call, they're going to be your ideal client. And it's going to be someone you love, they're willing to pay your prices. They already kind of know what you do. And you won't even have to really sell them. So that's why it's important is it kind of serves as this filtration. So by the time there's people who will get lost along the way and that's okay, that's by design. You can't be for everybody. So by the time they land over here, it's like, wow, this person, like I would go get a drink with them right now. Like that's the kind of clients do you want to work with? Um, so being intentional about that process, that's the result that you get from doing that? And I think the, just the authenticity of that I think is so important because you want, ultimately, you want the people that are going to be attracted to you to the one that work with you. And that's where I keep all this dumb stuff up. No matter what I'm podcasts is about, because ultimately, you know, you're hiring me and I don't want to show up. It was the worst thing in the world. Early on, uh, when I probably wasn't, as you know, out there, just in terms of like having my face and the website and everything. And I booked a client online. I think it was like on email or the phone or whatever. And I used to have a Mohawk and everything and, and, um, I had, I have my tattoos and I had like a tank top on and I show up to the wedding to like, Get ready to go. But I had gotten out of the car, I'm pulling up and I see this girl and she's putting up like a sign by the side of the road. And I pulled up and I'm like, Hey, like where's the wedding? What's going on? What was the bride? Right first off, you know, I'm thinking it's like, you know, sister or friend or whatever. And she's like, Oh, well, who are you? And I'm like, you know, I'm your, I'm your videographer. And you could just see like the, um, Just a little bit, right. A little bit, because you know, I would just, wasn't what she expected. Right. And, and that's, that's more on my fault for not having that authenticity out there of my voice and my personality and my brand versus like, You know, I'm I. Who she expected, but it wasn't this like weird Mohawks guy showing up all like, Hey, what's going on? But you know, so you want to make sure that you're, um, The people know who they're hiring and that goes across the board, through your website and everything else. Yeah. So it's beneficial because think of the people you love working with the most, imagine if that's most of your clientele and if it's not already, then there's something in your messaging. That's off. That's speaking to the wrong people. That's a great, yeah. To the point. I just had to say. Yeah. Exactly. Say that one more time. Your tray. That was a great point. Yeah. Just that whoever, like, if you imagine your very favorite clients to work with, imagine if that was majority of your clientele. Most of the people you're interacting with. If you were already doing that then great. That's the point of having good messaging, consistent messaging. If you are not feeling that way, where you have some clients who love and some that are just kind of harder to work with, there's something in your messaging that is speaking to the wrong person. I like that. Yeah. Um, this has been good. Any other, uh, thoughts, feelings, anything before we go. No, I just, I, I mean, yes, I guess, um, I would just say to S you know, it's a weird season, but there's always going to be stuff that comes up in life. I mean, that's just the nature of it. This one was just a bigger one and a newer one that we all went through simultaneously, but I encourage people too. Use this time as a gift to really reprioritize how they want to run their businesses, how they want their brand to feel and make it a true reflection of who they are. I'd love to see, like all of our wedding vendors kind of transform their business to just truly be an embodiment of who they are as people. I think that would be so cool to see. Um, yeah. And I just encourage people to take this time, take advantage of it and use it for good. And also if, if you are somebody that struggles with consistency or staying on task to reach out to someone like Kelsey, that is a business coach that will kind of hold that accountability. Right. I know we had talked about this on the other podcasts that, you know, you, you know, you coach people, but then you also have a coach, you know, to keep you right. Kind of tuned into. So I guess talk about that before we go. Yeah, that would have been a huge failure if I just stopped there. The points I brought up today. These are issues that I help people with all the time. This is kind of my court specialty is this kind of stuff. The strategy, the behind the scenes, the. Just overall systems in your business. That's the stuff I love working on. So I have one-on-one clients that is super customized. What are their specific needs? It's a 12 week journey that we go on together. That's a, than a lot of fun. I have an Academy for people who are kind of just getting started in their business and wanting to grow or make some changes. Some of these system changes and then I'll be launching a mastermind in the new year, which will be a super high level group of business owners who are, you know, have some good systems in place that just want to take it to the next level. And a lot of them are adding. Online teaching, uh, podcasts, blogs kind of. Like an arm to their business that's related, but you know, creates another stream of income. So if any of those sound interesting to you, that's, that's kinda my jam. That's what I have to offer. And I'd love to chat more. If you would be interested. Yeah, it's it's so I think just like that. The thesis of all this is you getting yourself, get yourself out there, right. Be consistent about it. And if that is something that you struggle with and cause a lot of people do, you know, find somebody that can help you. You. You know, just hold yourself accountable because it is. Uh, clients know this, you know, clients know this, if you drop off the earth, you know, if you're inconsistent, whether it's through booking stuff or, you know, I'm not that social media is the be all end all, but it is still, um, You know, uh, uh, Telium point just kind of overall. How, how you're approaching everything. And so it is important to be consistent and to put yourself out there. And then if you can't find someone that can help you do that. So, yeah. And we all benefit from that. Like you said, I have a coach, so, um, I would not be on the path I'm at now. Without her. So I definitely believe everyone can benefit from that accountability and support. And, you know, being an entrepreneur can be really lonely sometimes. So having someone provide feedback has been, been there, done that they're growing, they're further down the road than you are someone you can learn from who can also provide support and accountability. I think that will just make you go so much further than anything you do on your own. Um, this has been great. I probably talked more than I normally do on these podcasts, but this is something that I'm passionate about. So I do apologize, but I thank you so much. Uh, for coming on and sharing all this. If people wanna find more about you and all the different stuff that you offer, because it is. I just think it's so valuable. I just, I really can't say as I break the microphone, I really can't say it enough. So where would you have people check out to learn more about what you do? Yeah, thank you. Um, my websites, Kelsey Murray, knutson.com. Um, spelled last name is spelled K N U T S O N because there's lots of ways to spell that one. Instagram calcium, Eric Knudsen, Facebook, same thing. And yeah, I have a lot of exciting stuff coming up in the work. So, um, come follow along so you can be included on all this stuff. That's coming out. Well, thank you again, a little off topic today, for the best of me, why these podcasts by something it's important, you know, uh, everybody is trying to, you know, work on their businesses and whether you're working for someone or working for yourself. So I think that this is his good am. I wanted to talk about this and I think that this is mission complete.

Episode 19 - Saving the “2021 Wedding”

Well, thank you guys all so much for being here today. I think this is a really important topic. You know, I tried to produce these week to week the best, many weddings and tried to figure out what's going on. And I just had one of our good friends, friends got married last weekend and I filmed it. And it really got me thinking about this whole idea of. I think a lot of people are doing the split, you know, doing the smaller ceremony this year, a micro wedding, elopement, whatever you want to call it. And then they're going to come back next year. And do a reception. And I don't know what that looks like, and I don't know if they necessarily yet know what that looks like either. And so I want to. Figure out a way to successfully kind of the, the title of this episode is, you know, saving the 20, 21 wedding. And so if we are doing, you know, a split this year, Uh, for both sides, for the couple getting married and then also the guests that are attending, how can we make this be the most successful event, you know, emotionally, you know, for them feeling everything. You know, for the guests, you know, perspective, you know, for kind of celebrating that day. And so we have a wedding officiant at a wedding planner and the wedding DJ here to kind of round out that Chanelle. I go ahead and introduce yourself and we'll go around and thank you guys all so much for being here. Thanks for having me. Right. I'm delighted to be here. My name is Chanelle Carlin was Chanelle Carlin weddings. I'm based in Okanogan, Washington. Um, and I. Primarily officiate weddings for couples who are wanting to elope or have smaller, more intimate wedding ceremonies. Um, throughout the Pacific Northwest Washington, Oregon, Idaho, and in natural settings. So usually 90, probably 95, 99% of my weddings are actually outdoors. Um, and they go all year long. So, and I do have a number of couples who have decided that they want to get married this year in 2020. They had plans for bigger wedding. Um, and while some couples postponed their bigger weddings all together and are not getting married this year, um, some of them still wanted to go through with their initial wedding day, but. Save the save the bigger celebration with their family and their friends or extended family and friends until next year. Awesome. And Sarah, go ahead. Thank you. So I'm so glad we got to connect this week. We've never worked together yet, but I'm glad that this all worked out for you to come on. Why don't you introduce yourself? I agree. Yeah. Thank you so much for including us street. It's really fun to hop on here with you. I'm Sarah have her strata. I work with it's your day events. Whereas Seattle-based company, but I am the North sound, a lead planner. So I'm actually up here in Bellingham, Washington. Um, I've been with the company 2020 is my ninth season. And we're coming up on 11 years in business. And a lot like Chanelle. Um, we have had a few of our couples that do want to still do the 20, 20 wedding. You know, the date's important to them or mostly they're thinking like they want to. Postpone the wedding, but not postpone the marriage. Um, and then we have had quite a few that will just shift everything entirely to 2021. But yeah, I think this is a great thing to be kind of talking about, and I'm excited to chat with you guys. Uh, and Alan wanted me to ask him about his Mariners Jersey. As we came on the podcast today, Alan is sporty and it's it's XFL. Mark. CASSE stay here at, at best made videos. This is when we post our XFL podcast and that Alan, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself? I think this is podcast number 87 for you. I was trying to counter that. I feel like it's 87 or 88. Um, There's a lot on the cutting room floor though. And I know the outtakes are going to be really in demand on the internet. Uh, I believe the theme of this is somewhat wait till next year, because that's what a lot of couples are doing. And I feel like I have a certain amount of expertise as a Mariner fan. Waiting until next year. So that is why I selected the attire that I did. Uh, and I am Alan s**t like with Puget sound, DJ. Perfect. Well, thank you so much. Yes. And definitely has, uh, has. However long I've lived in Seattle. I share those sentiments. Um, Does anyone else? Am I totally off base here in having concerns, questions, things. You know, do you guys, do you share that? Do you think I'm crazy? Uh, Alan disc is, I've talked to with you the most about this. Let's go back around that way. You know, am I totally off base it in having concerns about things for next year? I think it's different. And I, and I think you are right to be concerned. I think couples and the wedding vendor team that people are working with me to recognize. That if you're splitting things up and you're having your ceremony now, and you're having your reception later, it is I I'm with you on that theory, that it's, that it's going to be different. There's a synergy in a great. Ceremony and reception where it all kind of comes together. And if you hear a great ceremony and the couple is able to articulate why they're in love and why are they're marrying each other? That's a great start. To a celebration. And I think it helps guests. Get in the mindset of really supporting that couple, really loving them. Um, and so I buy into your theory that it's different. If you're going to have a reception in 2021 without a ceremony. Uh, yes. Sarah. What about you? I'm pretty much on the page with Alan. I totally agreed that it's different. Um, What I am going to push back with you on is that I do think people can keep the emotions strong. I've I agree that it's sort of like momentum gathering when you have the ceremony and then you roll right into the reception. But in my experience, it feels like a lot of these couples, at least for our team are compromising. Um, with this year ceremony. They're doing it, they're feeling it with their partner. And you know, they're saying all the marriage vows, the tiers, you know, they're still having that moment with their partner. But. They downsized their wedding party. They've cut their guests lists to like a 10th of who they planned on having, they're not having dancing. There may be not having any speeches and. And so I do feel like it's super different and there's a lot of like pivoting and, and reshuffling and planning and re-planning, and you know, all those sorts of things, but essentially. I guess I'm just going to say, it's not going to lack emotion for 2021, in my opinion. I'm going to have to ask you to leave. If you disagree with me. I thought you were going to do great. No, but that's good. And that's what I want to maintain today. So, no, that's great. And so now what do you think about this? And then I'll have a follow-up question for you afterward. Aye. I can totally get the concern. I've had a number of conversations with couples. Um, Over the same thing. They're, uh, they want to be married now, you know, the whole point of setting a date is, and then looking forward to that date is to begin your begin your life together as. As true partners, not just people who cohabitate, but if people who are 100% committed, um, emotionally, physically, and legally. And, and they, they planned all of that and they, they planned most of the time they've planned this big celebration with their family and friends. And, um, like I said, they then had to. Um, really. Dramatically change those plans and it's been heartbreaking. It's been heartbreaking. So then they tried their best to recapture these moments together. This intimacy, you know, maybe they've changed their plans, completely changed venues. They're getting married on a hiking trail or they're getting married on a Lake, but their family still can't be there to celebrate with them. So that's really what this is about for next year is, and some of my couples are doing two ceremonies. So one we're doing one that is just a very intimate, personal, um, elopement ceremony. And then one next year, when they can have their bigger celebration, that really incorporates the family. And in a greater, more meaningful way. Do you think in, in this goes for everyone too? Cause. There's been a lots of talk of, you know, we're just doing the reception next year, right. The reception next year. So do you guys think that a lot of couples that have done the smaller wedding this year, it is just going to be a dinner next year and dancing and toast, or are, do you think that most of the couples are going to be doing some sort of. Val renewal or, you know, just even just redoing, you know, but like maybe they didn't do their own vows this year and then next year they'll do their own vows. What do you think? To put yourself in the mind of the planning couple. What do you think that they're thinking? Is it just a reception next year? And that's it. Um, the couples that I'm working with, they're doing both. You know, I have, I have, uh, they're doing a ceremony now, and then they're doing a ceremony and a reception. Next year because their family members didn't get to participate in the ceremony. And we all know while people might talk about, Oh, I have to go to another wedding. I just want to go for the party. Well, that is true for some people. Most people when they go to a wedding, they want, they want to see the couple get married. And if they can't see the legal piece, they still want to be part of that. That ceremonial piece. Right. Most people don't see the legal, uh, the license signing anyway. Um, so they, they're not part of that legal piece as a general rule, but they are part of the ceremony. They love to watch the couple of stand there and. And express their love to one another. And that can take place more than one time. We'll just have to, it would. Ideally look a little different. Sarah, the ones that you're doing, is it the same thing that they are, they planning to do a whole ceremony again next year? I'm not necessarily know, um, what they've done. Uh, both of them that I've worked with this year, they videoed the ceremony, which is obviously not as personal as like I'm doing another full ceremony, but they've talked about sort of showing the ceremony, um, and then having nobody see them before that sort of video plays. And then they can still make sort of like a grand entrance into the reception. So it does feel like a big sort of we're here moment, um, where they're seeing their guests for the first time, just after the video plays. And then, uh, the other one actually is doing sort of, so they did a micro wedding here in Bellingham. And they're kind of going to pivot and maybe do. An East coast wedding. I'm with family that's more over in the Philadelphia area. And just kind of, yeah. At reset over there. And since those people didn't travel at all, Um, sort of do the East coast and West coast thing. Alan. I know we've kind of talked, uh, in, in this store that is similar to that kind of example that you said where maybe someone got married in Hawaii. And then, you know, or abroad or, you know, I mean, that's kind of a cliche, but, you know, and then came back into the reception. And, um, I don't, I mean, please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I do think that a lot of times those are not as successful. As maybe showing the video, you know, having to re recreation of the ceremony, you've been just like, Hey, these people got married over here and then we're going to come back and do reception. Is that, have you done any of those? Have you heard with DJs and everybody? How those kinds of workout when, when you're not. Being mindful of the guests that maybe missed out on part of that stuff from before. Sure. And as you know, my role, uh, on this podcast is to be the Ray of sunshine. Um, there is no doom and gloom from me. Uh, and, and I disagree with that theory. I feel like when a couple is starting to plan their 2021 event. They can start from scratch. It's different. And. Maybe like server says, maybe they play a video. And that can be if it's well done. That can be a nice emotional start to an entrance or something like that. Maybe they incorporate their previous ceremony some other way. Maybe they don't, maybe they start with the idea of cocktail. Maybe they're not even dressed as though it was a wedding and maybe they don't have any attendance. I think all of these options are. Still a starting point for what could be a very, very successful night. I mean, for me, part of the joy of a wedding, He's seeing all your people. From all these different aspects of your life together under one roof. And. Feeling that community just really come together for you. And so. You got to make a decision about how it's going to flow and what you want to do. There are some couples. Who don't care that much about the ceremony, right? Like it's just a formality. Uh, to get to the celebration. And for those couples probably in 2021. That won't start with that. But I think there's other couples who do want to share that joy, like Chanelle was talking about before with, um, You, you can tell your spouse why you love them and why you're committing to them twice. You know, um, you, you, you, you can do that in 20 and then do it again in 2021. And I just, I think it really depends on the couple, but to your actual question, can it be successful? The answer from Alan is yes. Uh, I just, I worry. And this was years ago. Um, and I love the idea of incorporating in the video and, and obviously, you know, as a videographer I did the wedding years ago where they had. Uh, like secretly went and got eloped. Uh, by their friends or whatever, um, you know, months before didn't tell anybody. Uh, it told me during the booking meeting, Oh, this will be such a great surprise. And, um, it was not at all. Uh, you know, uh, Cause cause they did the whole wedding. Right. They did the whole wedding. You know, the mothers, there were zipping up, we're doing everything, you know, they come down the aisle and then, Oh wait. And then they pull down like a projector and they, you know, And so. That's where, you know, and it was, it was, um, really bad. Like it was, it was as bad as, and so I'm not trying to. You know, were, were you abroad the video? Cause I love the idea of doing that, but I'm saying that you really need to be careful about how that's done. And that was obviously. These are different circumstances and people understand COVID and rescheduling and stuff. But, um, I, I guess I just, you know, uh, we don't, we don't attend a lot of weddings, you know, Not working. Um, my wife and I, and, uh, you know, we, we are always very cognizant about how just, it feels as going as a guest, right. And feeling like to be a part of the bed and see everything. And so, you know, especially if you're going to be traveling and paying for, you know, registry gifts and all sorts of things, and then just feeling like you still, even though it wasn't a couple's fault that maybe you missed out on part of it. So that's kinda my. My thoughts. Um, It Chanelle. If, if, uh, even if people are wanting to, to, to do another ceremony next year, Uh, what would be, how would you, and how are you kind of working with the couples that you have to. To not only, you know, obviously get married this year and have them be meaningful, but also, you know, equally feel like they're going through that next year. So one of the things that I'm asking couples to be aware of is exactly that guest experience. So, um, their wedding day is all about them, right? I always, I always start with that premise. It's their wedding. And so I want to make sure that it feels good for them. Um, when you were inviting guests, Could be there and to travel and to invest their time and their money to be part of that celebration. Um, you want to be mindful of, of them and what their expectations are, um, as well. And we all know that most of the time, when people go to a wedding, they're expecting to see a couple getting married. Um, and if they're already married, I agree. I can see where some people would feel like they had been kind of. Wait, I got cheated out of that. But if you're being honest as a couple, as long as they're honest and open about what that is for them and what their, what they want their guest experience to be, um, whether it's, you know, joining in a celebration of love. Um, or, you know, watching their, their marriage. It's um, you know, I ask them always to be mindful of that. So that's where we start. So I have. Specifically, I have a couple coming up. This month who are doing that. And so they're having their elopement. Because they planned for two years to get married on this particular date and darn it. The state is important to them. So they are getting married. Um, they're eloping and they're getting married and we created an elopement ceremony. So it's just them, their witnesses. And it's really about the two of them actually. Legally getting married, but having some spare money to go with it. So it feels memorable to them. But they really are both very family-oriented and they wanted their family to be able to celebrate with them. So when they get married next year, again, it's more of a vow renewal and a kind of celebration. And thank you for honoring us with your presence and your love. And we really are so grateful that you can celebrate this with us because, you know, we did come together. And yet now we can celebrate with you. And that's what we wanted to do in the first place. We weren't able to, but now we can. So it's being mindful of that. I completely agree with Chanelle. And I would say my, my observation is when couples. Um, Do their ceremony earlier. And then have the reception later, if they're honest about it and open about it. There really isn't a problem. And I think, and read, and your example, part of the reaction. Of those guests being so negative was that they potentially felt deceived. Right, right. And I have talked to numerous couples. Who have gotten done their ceremony in advance for a variety of reasons, health insurance, immigration, whatever. Um, and they can't always remember who they've told and who they haven't. And that's a lot of pressure, but I feel like in 2021, Every guest we'll excuse any couple for having gotten a Sarah Dunn, their ceremony in advance. I don't think you start with. Uh, the presumption that I'm getting to see the, the unique, actual first time ceremony. Um, so I just think part of the key of it is too. Figure out something to do that feels like a ceremony that allows a couple to express their feelings for each other. Or skip it. You know, I think that's going to be a legitimate strategy too. There's not just going right into reception. Yeah. Um, Sarah, and obviously it's, it's a little far out, you know, to, to, you know, be fully planning these 20, 21 weddings. But whether, whether some questions and things you're going to be talking to your couples about that you want. Yeah. To, you know, for them to be mindful of, or that you want to know in trying to capture that same stuff for next year. I think it kinda goes back to what Chanelle was saying about the guest experience. Um, I think a lot of people that are. Attending, any weddings, even if they're tiny this year, our COVID, it's kind of like the elephant in the room that people don't know how to act. And, and they don't know if they're wearing masks or if they're not wearing masks or if they should stay for just a little time. And. And not talk to anybody. You know, it's just a lot of, um, I guess I feel like there's a lot of tension at weddings right now. Um, just kind of circling around the uncertainty of them. So I think I'll probably be talking with my guests about. You know, obviously it's going to depend on if. COVID is still has like prominent. And for these 2021 weddings. Um, but kind of want to just talk about that and see how people are communicating with their guests, about what sort of. Their goals and the standards are going to be, and if they want to keep, you know, like sanitation stations set up at their weddings, you know, a lot of people this year, like I don't want any COVID. On my wedding, but you obviously, you really can't avoid it. So, um, I think it's more just being mindful of the guest's comfort level. Since it is sort of in the back of everybody's mind. Um, Alan, whether some things, uh, Couples could be doing this year. And I know, obviously we're, we're getting to the end of this, you know, Seattle, whatever wedding season we've had this year, what didn't really have. But, um, you know, like I know that the, uh, recording the audio from the ceremony, you've talked about being able to play that at the reception, you know, um, anything else, uh, ideas like that, where we're too to kind of carry over that same emotion into next year. Well, I think part of the [unknown]. The strategy is to conceive of these as two separate different events. If you have a small ceremony. Now, if you are eloping, like Chanelle was talking about. Or if you're having a 30 person wedding. Maximize it. Right. Like have that ceremony be even more personal. Bring in. More readings that are important to you or do all the things that you're legally able to do. Um, Do your first dance or. Uh, you know, what, whatever you can do. Um, to make that ceremony worthwhile and interesting and emotional for all the guests who are going to be there. Do that now. And. I would say, as you were describing. Uh, archive that, right? Like get good video from it. Get good audio from it. Get good photos from it because. In some way you might want to reflect that ceremony at next year's reception. And you don't necessarily have to make any decisions now about what next August is going to be like, but you have it. Right. And so I think at a minimum. Uh, you should have, you should get a recording, audio recording, because just hearing that. And you should. Most people are going to get photos. I think even bad video is better than no video. Uh, but I think professional video. Uh, like something that was really well-made. No, not well-made good. Made no, no. Best maid, they should get a video that is best made. And. Uh, then they have those tools for next year. And then I think we've been kind of talking about this a little bit, but then the next year. Um, You've got to design that differently. You know that everybody there knows you just got married nine months ago or whatever the thing is going to be. So incorporate that and, and still have it be good. I liked the idea of, of adding things to the, to the ceremony. The one that we just did, um,Uh, she, her, her brother was remote. Uh, they had some family members that were on zoom and, um, They had picked readings and then have her parents, you know, did the readings at the thing. Um, you know, if a ceremony and one of them, she's a, uh, huge, um, Royal family fan. Uh, she actually went to London and like watch the Royal wedding parade and all that. And one of the readings was. I guess what they, some poem or something that they had read at the Royal wedding, right. Harry and Megan or whoever they are, but, um, I don't think any of that stuff. But, you know, but it was meaningful for that way. Um, and I love that because you know, it was a little different than where you normally have 200 people on raw kind of sit in their cramped and we're watching this thing and what's going on, you know, it's, it's just their family. You can let the ceremony breathe a little bit. Chanelle. To piggyback off of the, the wonderful conversation we all had about the wedding officiant round table about really maximizing your wedding ceremony. Uh, other ideas like that, things you're working through this year, things that you're thinking about that couples can be thinking about, um, in that way. Yeah, there's a couple. Um, so can I just. Take a step back real quick. This is not the first time in our, in our society, in our history that we've kind of gone through things like this. Um, Obviously. People like Alan's that people have gotten married and then had their, their second celebrations. Are there bigger celebrations at later times? You know, war time, it happens a lot and my parents were married in Vietnam. My husband's parents were married during Vietnam. Had small courthouse wedding, and then they had their celebrations with their families. Later and they did have those weddings, but so when I used to ask my mom, when did you and dad get married? Well, officially. We got married in January. We had our wedding. Later, you know, so this is not the first time that we, that our society has gone through things like this. So can we just get to be more creative now and look at things a little bit differently. We have the benefit of technology that we didn't have then. Um, one of my couples that got married in may, and I talked about this before. It ended up being a virtual wedding because they live in California. They had been planning to come up here to Washington for their big family celebration. They were flying in their family members to come celebrate over on the, um, On the peninsula. And, um, they had handfasting they had specific readings that they really wanted to have and they had the ceremony was, and it was very meaningful to them and they were incorporating their family in the handfasting ceremony. It was taking place in the forest. It was. Was going to be really, really beautiful. Um, And then it had to change because nobody could travel at the time that they were getting married. They couldn't come up here. No, none of their family could be here. The state of California, the governor allowed virtual wedding to take place and with the officiant, wherever they wanted. So we just went ahead and did there. The official legal ceremony, but they still want to come back up here next year and do their ceremony. And they want to have that beautiful hand fasting ceremony that incorporates their family members. Um, So that's really, the one thing is really just to think about, okay, why do you want to have the second ceremony? You know, D is it because you want to celebrate with your family and your friends that couldn't participate? Or they couldn't participate in the same way. So just thinking about that, what, why do you want to have the second ceremony? Because you don't have to, once you're married, you're married. You don't have to do anything else. Um, so if you want to have it be meaningful for yourselves to be with them and have it be meaningful for them. Think about how you want it to be meaningful. Do you want it to be this incredible party and this incredible celebration, which is wonderful. You don't have to do any more vows. Um, or do you want to be able to allow them to. To see a ceremony of something. So it's just really asking, I'm going to think about those things and what they, what they feel in their hearts. And go from there. I totally agree. And I don't know if you do this for your, um, ceremonies Chanelle, but something that I love when officiant Stu is that they sort of do a, I don't know if it's a call to action necessarily with the folks that are at the wedding, but it's sort of cross checking that. All of the people that are here witnessing this ceremony, this moment, this bows, the kiss, you know, they are your tribe to like fall back on. If you're struggling personally, or you're struggling in your. Your relationship that these people are holding you accountable to the vows that you're taking today, as well as like your support system. And so having, you know, obviously having your close family members are. They're going to be, you're probably the first people you turn to, if you are struggling, but it's so much. More impactful to have those extra 50 people are all your friends and then your aunties and your uncles. Like on top of that, I think that's just. You like, feel the love and support a little bit more. Um, and that's where I was saying earlier about compromising, when you're pairing down that guest list to a 10th of what you planned. You know, maybe just that's another layer on what you were saying. I think you said that really well. Um, eh, she got, and then following up, we should not talk to me about, uh, do you see the emotions, you know, asking people questions, you know, Everybody here. You know, has, is obviously worked with a lot of couples. With a lot of different emotions. I wanted to follow up with Sarah first about that. You know, as a planner and, and hopefully there's a lot of couples listening to this as well as other vendors, but, you know, Some emotions, what's it been like working with some of the couples and especially the ones that are doing it this year and moving to next year, you know, what's it. Cause you're kind of that front line, right? I mean, you're really involved in, in a lot of the decision-making and a lot of the questions, you know, Why have you either, what do they want to do this year? What do they want to do next year? What's it been like, kind of working through all that stuff with your couples. It's it's been. I don't know. It's, it's, it's different with every couple, I guess that's what I'm going to say. Um, it's a really like a rollercoaster as I'm sure you can imagine. Um, I a lot of them at all kind of started actually pretty early, you know, March in there. They're like, what do you think we should do? Like, this is freaking me out, like grandma, you know? And, and so it started out with a lot of like talking people back off the ledge, like, okay, we should have more information. You know, May 1st let's let's hold and not freak out until then. If we can, you know, then the other side of it is that. I am the professional and I'm not feeling the wedding day emotion. That they are, you know, it's not my wedding. Um, so I have to kind of dial that back because I am feeling for them, but I'm not feeling it as them. If that, if that makes sense. You know, um, so I, I want to stay sort of level-headed about it, but I also don't want to dismiss their concerns. Are there. Their fears, because this is like something I've had a couple that I, they hired me two years ago. For a 2020 wedding and they, you know, they had to push it to 2021. I do think that, um, a lot of like, Couples that I work with at least are already. Sort of like cohabitating and they do. Many things as a married couple already, they're just not formally married. So that's what they're looking for in the wedding as this big, like official. Celebration. And so a lot of them are like, we're not even going to entertain a 20, 20 wedding cause we want it all. Or we want nothing cause we're already living together or we're already doing all the things. Um, so that's sort of the other side of it, you know, they're either. Trying to figure out what to do or just, it's easier to just push it to 21 and. I dunno, it's it's been a, been a roller coaster and I just, I try to ask them if. Paring it down. Is. Too much settling, I guess that's sort of where I'm asking them. That's my ultimate question. You know, is it worth having a small ceremony? Or is it worth it to just hold out for more and hope next year? It's possible. Yeah, it's, it's tough. And, and I, I'm probably guilty of that too, is, you know, I've been married. Right. You know, I've done everything out and it was my DJ, you know, I mean, we've. We've. So it's really easy for me to say, well, you don't worry about it. Just do the 10 person one and move on. I mean, I do. I think I'm, I'm really guilty of that of seeing it as someone that's gotten to do it. Uh, or, you know, I always remember him. A couple of weeks before our wedding, I was filming weddings. And it was raining, really rained, really bad, you know, really tough day. And I'm just like, man I'm so I, I hope it doesn't rain on my wedding day. You know, because you just, you want it. And then you've been through itself. It is, it is it's, it's easy to, to for, I think, for me to think for a couple's, we'll just, don't worry about it, you know, just do the small one and whatever, like you said, it's that question. Of settling a Chanelle. We talked about this on the other one about, um, not suddenly, but you know, making the best of it. You know, it follow up to any of this discussion from your point of view. So how, like there is that there's been a lot of back and forth and trying to help a couple of steps back from the ledge and the panicking. And one of the things that I really tried to do as well is, is ask them. You know, if you're given your option, do you want to get married on your current date? Is the date the most important you chose it for a reason? Or is the bigger celebration, the most important. So you tell me what's the most important, and we will work with that. And we will create something that's beautiful. For whichever, or for both. So it really is about, you know, finding out where they are. First and if they say they, you know, they want to get married on that date, they chose it for a specific reason. It's the anniversary of their getting together, or, you know, they've waited so long. They don't want to wait anymore. Um, you know, It's really about creating something that's meaningful for that moment, but then, you know, six months or a year from now, they're going to be in a totally different space. You know, whether COVID is still as big of an issue or not. Um, in six months to a year, we will all be in a different space. And so if they're still wanting to have a bigger ceremony or a ceremony that incorporates more of their family and friends, we create something new and meaningful for that time as well. So, It's. Um, and I try really hard to not allow them to think of it as settling. So it may be that they've changed everything and they've had to completely pare down their guest list or eliminate their guest list all together at a couple who went from having an East coast wedding. Were there big family, both work to getting married on a dock and Shalane. And so I said to them, okay, that's, that's a huge change. And if that's what you want to do, we will do it. How do we make it the best, most meaningful, most personal, most incredible elopement. That you could ever imagine so that it really is. The two of you. And we've spent time on that. And they actually said to me afterwards, This is how it was meant to be. You know, The other part would have been lovely and it would have been great. But after having been through this now they had their first dance. They said, this is how it was meant to be. Whether they could be like that next year. You know, but, but at least right at that moment. So it's capturing where they are in the moment celebrating where they are in the moment. And then for next year or whenever we'll do the same thing. And again, we'll capture where they are in the moment. We'll look at where everything is and then. Create something that's meaningful at that time. That's where I'm, that's where I aimed to be. No, and that's good. Go ahead, sir. Thank you for priority. I was just going to say, yeah, it's kind of like picking your priorities. Yeah, whatevers. The fore front for how you want it to look. Yeah. It's just so just follow where you're talking about, you know, we're where the couples are at, right. And where their mentality is in, and it's going to be so different. I mean, I've even thought that. Even before these kinds of the split ones were, were, were just pushing dates. Right. You know, we were going to get married this year. We're going to get married. And, you know, I had told, you know, I'm sure Alan and Dorothy and South, I said, you know, it's one thing to flip your calendar, a couple of pages and say, that's what it's going to be. Our new date. But I see a 12 months is a really long time away. Yeah. It's a really long time, especially if you've been married. I know that Jennifer van, the venture she's been on me to get to know your wedding pro podcast. She's a planner. She commented on my post, looking for guests for this. In the Facebook group. Uh, she, uh, it predicts, there'll be a lot of baby announcements next year, you know, at these, at these receptions because. You know, just people are going to be a different place, Alan, as someone that, you know, works with the receptions, you know, uh, w what do you think about that? You know, couples being in a totally different place next year and how to. Balance those two things from where they are now. And it makes sense of my, my illogical question. I don't think it's a logical question at all. Uh, for once. I think that the receptions are going to be different because they are reflecting a couple who's in a different space. But okay. Let's start there. And. Uh, if you. You know, I've, I've actually done a game where guests will try to name the baby. You know, and then they pass it up and then I. Uh, I read them or try and get the guests to vote on which ones? The funniest one. Um, So I think you can kind of incorporate that new space. Into the reception. And have it be authentic to who they are then? Um, But, you know, like Sarah and Chanelle have said, there are so many different reasons that people pick the path that they are picking. Um, People like a date. Uh, I had a couple who had been looking forward to eight, eight, 20. For, I think she said more than five years. It was her grandparents' anniversary. Um, and, and, and, and this was a couple who had been together a long time, so she was just kinda waiting for him to pull the trigger. Um, And then 10 days before, uh, the governor announces, you know, what. We're going to hold all the weddings as of eight, six. Um, And so. Just. You just have to deal with what you're dealt. And so I think for those couples who have made the decision that they want to get a ceremony done and be legally married and maybe start that path to Parenthood. Or. Whatever else. It is great, but yeah, let's be real about that in 2021 and incorporate that if we can. As someone that balances many, a wedding dates in my head I do from time to time, have to remind myself of where my own anniversary is. Just because there's a lot of different dates going around in there as I'm sure, you know, Allie. Eight six, eight, six. Well, you, you did your wife's birthday, right? You guys, you did the same day. Let's see, I'll never forget. Right. I better not. Yes. My, my, my, my wife and I got married on her 30th birthday. So if I ever forget her birthday and our anniversary, And I'll be your toast. I'm toast. Not even with butter, just like, yeah. Your out date. Bread toast. If couples, so for anyone listening and still, hopefully that has, you know, done the mini wedding this year, the micro weddings, whatever, you know, Okay. So now we've got the date set for 2021. August 1st, whatever the, I don't know, whatever the Saturday is our next year. Whether, some things that they should be thinking in ma you know, keeping their mind. Asking themselves asking their plan or asking their, you know, officiant DJ, whether some things that they should be thinking about a Chanelle, let's start with you. The things that I just asked them to think about is what they are wanting to achieve with it. Is it just really to celebrate with their, um, with their family and they want to incorporate their family into it. Um, is it. Uh, do they want something specific? Uh, is there a certain ritual, do they want to have their family participate in the ceremony or just watch really just those kinds of different, well, that's the field that they want to have for themselves and for their guests. Sarah. What about you? I agree. I think it's, um, really important. Like I said before about this year, everybody's kind of got this tension, like COVID elephant in the room. And so I think it's important to sort of think about. How we can sort of shake that off for 2021, if, if that's hopefully possible. Um, so kind of pivoting back to the guest experience. And then I also am having people sort of think about, um, If they maybe want to go up a level for, um, certain things, you know, they may be one to take the money they were going to spend on the ceremony or have a little bit shorter rental. Time at the venue. And then they have that extra money to, to do one more thing. Like maybe add a fancy videographer or they want to do. Signature cocktail, a little bar cart and have people experience like a bubble bar or, you know, just something a little bit. Elevated from what they were initially planning. So they have a new aspect to this 20, 21 wedding that they're like jazzed about that they can kind of bring other people into. You know, just sort of to get. The next level emotions stirred up for 2021. Allen. I think the first thing that a couple, uh, who is getting married next year needs to do. Is to identify the key vendor areas. And make sure they have their team together. 2021 is a nuts year. Uh, you know, because of all the. Postponements and because people normally we're going to get married then. So now is absolutely the best time to make sure that for those things you care about, You have your vendor team selected? And then honestly, I think take some time off. Like wedding planning can be so stressful and so consuming and. Um, We don't know. We don't know what July of 2021 is going to be like, and we don't know how many people are going to be able to come to your wedding. And we. There are so many unknowns right now. That that I think it's fine to just pause. And, and, and observe the situation. And then as the spring comes along, Pick it up. You know, start talking to your officiant and your planner and your other people who are important to you and get some ideas about how things are coming back. Um, We may be all the way back. Next summer to 250 people wedding and great. Or we may not. And, and you can't do anything about it. We won't know in December, we won't know in January. Uh, so take some time off and chill. But definitely still be listening to wedding planning podcast. Oh, yes. You want to bookmark them and review them on Apple podcasts. Review places. We'll get to that at the end. The other question I did have for you, Alex. And I forgot to ask this earlier, and this is so, and this is a serious question. So. As a DJ, as someone that puts a lot of thought into, you know, the emotions found your couples, a lot of planning, all that stuff. If it, if we have a couple, you know, got married this year is just doing a reception next year in your ideal world, what does that look like? If you can put together their event, their timeline to, you know, add. Have fancy toast or whatever, play the audio, whatever. What does that look like in your ideal world for next year? Well, I think it's hard to have a one size fits all. I would chat with a couple and I would start with that idea. Uh, what. Do you want to do about a ceremony? How do you want it to look? How do you want it to feel if you want to do it? At all. Right. And so I think there's gonna be some situations where couples aren't even in there, their dress and the formal attire. Um, Altogether, they might just show up in something different and that's great. That's okay. That sets a. A mood. Um, As a, as a DJ, I would try to extract from them what their values are and what are the things that they are trying to focus on. What. What feelings do they want to elicit from their guests? And then use that as sort of a starting point for that roadmap and sort of figure out then what activities are we going to do? What are we going to skip? In some in, in all cases, I always want the reception to feel like that couple. You know, and I want to give a lot of information about the couple's backstory and who are the people who are giving toasts and introduce the people in their wedding party. Um, So I still want to make sure that we do some of that. Um, And in the end. I want them to have this feeling of an amazing reunion with the people who they care about. And I'm a, I'm a sucker for that. I still go to my high school reunions. I love it. When I get together with people that I used to work with, even in different careers. Um, Because there's this, there's just this feeling that these are the people who have been through your life with you or shared some common experience. And so I just, I want that couple to have that feeling when they walk into that reception. Oh, my God. They're all here. You know, I agree. Good. Good. I final final thoughts. Uh, ideas before we go. I really appreciate email everyone coming on and sharing expertise today. Sarah, what about you? Final words of wisdom, advice, thoughts. Um, I have really liked to Alan said about just taking a little pause for now, because I think a lot of my couples are. Juggling, you know, gosh, it's going to cost so much for next year and what if COVID still around and just, it's really easy to get sort of down that black hole of of worry. And so, yeah, I think just take a pause. Um, Maybe just enjoy the holiday season with your close friends and family, and then save, you know, Valentine's day, you'll dive back into wedding planning. And I love the idea about getting your, sort of your tribe together, ready to ready to hit the ground running next year. And. Um, make it a good special event for yourselves and your partner and your family. Chanelle. What about you? I love the idea that Alan has ever really looking at it from a perspective of perspective of a reunion with people that are closest to most meaningful in your life. Um, It really is. All about the feelings, you know, at weddings. Are in and of themselves. A marriage is just a legal, it's a legal right of passage, basically. It's it's. The wedding is about the feelings and about to be emotions and about sharing your love with each other, with the people that you love and being surrounded by that. Um, so I, I love the idea of really just focusing on, on the feeling that you want to capture. And absolutely taking a bit of a break because we don't know, we don't know what next year will look like. We can sort of put it out there. Monica have our, our, our second wedding, our reception, whatever it is, you want to have our next event next year to incorporate everybody and. And we need to see how it's going to turn out and, and look as time gets closer. The why not just enjoy each moment as we can. And we're coming into Halloween and Thanksgiving and Christmas and new year's and Ramadan. I mean, all of these things that are. Are meaningful. To each of us in some different way. And so just celebrating that time as we can, and not focusing on the stress of wedding planning. Alan final thoughts. Well, one thought is that there's no wrong path. And I think couples, um, Should explore all the options and figure out what they want to do and how they. Uh, w we're navigating somewhat uncharted. Areas, like I agree with Chanelle that people have done those throughout history, but the scale of this cancellation and postponement at all, I just think is unprecedented. Um, so I, I hope that all the couples just feel empowered to do what they want to do. And what's right for them. And what, um, Matches with their personalities. Uh, and then. Lean on your partner. Like, I feel like wedding planning. Is in some ways, the first time where you are tested in a way that marriage tests you, when you're dating a lot of it is what movie do you want to go see what restaurant, where should we go on vacation? You know, just kind of those things. But then wedding planning is like, All right. Do we. If you get rid of your uncle, do we get rid of my coworker? Uh, or do we serve pasta with no sauce? The decisions get a little bit harder and. And so I feel like that's an opportunity just in general, for wedding planning, for couples to start communicating and learn how to make decisions together and the extent to which you can emotionally support him each other during this time is going to be. A great foundation. To your marriage. Well, we did it guys. We saved the 20, 21 wedding. Good job. No, but I really appreciate all your guys' is, um, Dodds and there's routines. Like I said, just. Be mindful of all these things, you know, moving into next year. I just think it's so important just because. It is, it is unprecedented. It's, it's a lot. And I think that, you know, for the couple and the guests. You know, I know it's a couple of days. But I do think that you want to really just be mindful of, of everybody, you know, your family and your friends and kind of everybody's experiences, um, coming to your wedding day. Uh, if everyone could please plug their, you know, businesses one more time and websites and everything, we'll start with Alan and go around. And I really appreciate all you guys coming on. Uh, Allen Allen. Puget sound DJ. Uh, you can find me online on Facebook, wherever you want. Wherever you find me big on the IgG, they got Instagram, big, honest, lots of followers read lots of followers. Sarah. What about you? Yeah. Uh, Sarah Haverstraw, it's your day events. Uh, we're on Instagram and it's your day of Ben's dot com. We travel. Chanelle. What about you? Chanelle Carlin was Chanelle, Carlin, weddings, and, um, yep. Do weddings all over the Northwest. And you can find me on, uh, my website. Chanelle carlin.com. Facebook Chanelle, Carlin wedding, Pinterest Chanelle, Carlin wedding, Instagram, Chanelle Carlin. Pretty much anywhere you look for me, you can probably find me. Thank you. And I was so, uh, I'm upset. I was going to play this at the beginning and I always forget, um, I think this is episode number 19 now, and you would think, wow, you must have been a 19. Uh, episodes of this one. Uh, you must have at least 19 reviews. Right. And we don't. And so I know Alan has left a review, but for anyone that's still listening. Rate this podcast.com/wedding. Couldn't be easier. Uh, we got there. The custom URL ratethispodcast.com/wedding. Uh, leave a review for the podcast. I really appreciate, uh, either if you're a vendor or a couple, you know, that that's had any sort of help at all, we would appreciate that. I think you guys again, so much, I really appreciate it. And I know this is some of these topics are a little more, you know, nebulous, whatever. And I appreciate it.

Episode 18 - How to Have Excellent Photos Taken of You

Well, thank you so much for joining today. My friend, Ben Lucas is a photographer. He also has the photography podcast and I thought it would be fun today. Uh, from personal experience, I actually, Dorothy and I did a session a couple of weeks ago and I never get my photo taken ever. And it's so jarring. And even for me, as someone that takes video and weddings and everything else to be on the other side, and I've kind of wanted to really just do a podcast with Ben and I was trying to figure out, okay, Benson photographer, Ben takes lots of different types of photos from weddings to, you know, head shots and, and, you know, all sorts of like cosplay and kind of everything in between brood war. And I thought let's get bang on. If I'm somebody that's gonna get, you know, my headshot taken or were getting married or whatever, whether some things that, you know, to expect to, to kind of get different things at different types of photos taken, um, you know, what, what are you looking for in terms of kind of the different things, and that will kind of see where the conversation goes. So Ben, why don't you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about who you are. Awesome. Hi, I'm Ben Lucas. My website and all my social media handles is non-creative as an alumnus. Uh, I am a photographer in the Seattle area. And, uh, coming up in January, I will have been doing this 10 years. Which is crazy to me. And, uh, Alan chitlins will be excited because Allen helps me kind of produce somebody shows behind the scenes. And now I'm going to be excited that UI you came on the podcast today. Because Alan did that, did the DJ for my wedding. And then also did the, yeah, he was DJ for my wedding as well. He's a great. So I just run me down the line just first off for anybody listening. I think the episode or the title of this episode is going to be how they have excellent photos taken the view. Cause I do think when we, when I look at your work as someone that sees a lot of different stuff, I do, I would quantify or qualify that as like excellent photos. I think you'd be a really good job. I think you have a, just, just an attention to detail that even like, I'm always running around even as like a chicken, whatever, you know, even when we do weddings together, I think you have just a, just a really nice. I remember we had, um, melody and James and we were doing, Oh yeah, that. That one was great. And, um, we had done, we were going out in Boulder then, and we were, um, trying to get some portraits and everything. And I remember that we were seated them, uh, sitting them on the bench and trying to kind of position everything. And, you know, Took a couple seconds and we're trying to get everything. And I remember I went home and I showed Dorothy, my wife, and this is a true story. And she goes, Oh, I just love, I love how there that, like, that's just put together. Like, I really love that. And I was like, Oh, well, that was like, absolutely totally ban, you know, like I'm just kind of filming in the background. So I thank you for that first offer. He didn't accrue those for my wife for doing good work, but kind of run me down all the different stuff you do just off the bat. Yeah. So, um, all the different kinds of categories come with their own things that I'm looking for and things to kind of help you look good. So I do weddings, family photos, head shots, high school seniors. Um, of course I also do a boudoir. Um, and if we have time at the end, I also do like advertising for like corporate stuff. And then I also run a photo booth for cosplay. Awesome. And so, I mean, At one level, you know, we're kind of doing photos, right. You know, photography, still photography, but what are some of the most, um, unique or challenging things, you know, bouncing from like weddings to family, photos and headshots. And what do you look for that differentiates kind of in each of those categories? Yeah. So when it comes to weddings, um, a lot of it is, you know, making sure that you look good as a couple and that you look like you love each other. And there's a bunch of different tips that I have for getting like good wedding photos. Um, and I think when you're looking at a wedding photo, it's very different than let's say a headshot because when you're looking at a headshot, it is very specifically, do I want to hire this person? Whether they are a lawyer or a real estate agent or an actor, does. A casting director want to bring in this person for an audition. So it really comes down to, um, different types of photos, have different goals. And so if the photo meets that goal, Then it's a successful photo. Yeah. And, and how hard is it? Because, you know, even like I get called all the time, you know, we have a lot of wedding stuff. People always assume that, you know, do you do corporate? Yes, we do. Corporate. We always have that. You have that fun talk. Is that challenging to jump in between you kind of have to put on a different hat depending on which you're walking into. And how does that change kind of how you approach, uh, not really. I think a lot of it is just do, do I make people look and feel good in front of the camera? If I can make you feel comfortable in front of the camera. And if you're happy with your photo, regardless of what genre it is. I think for me, at least that all kind of falls in the same realm. Uh, when I have to put on a different hat is what I'm shooting for, like Mercedes Ferrari Leatherman. When I'm doing something that does not have a person in it. Um, those are the types of things where it's like, okay, I gotta think about this a little bit differently. I have to make sure that the metal shines just right. And that's a completely different skillset than working with people. It is nice when I got to go in like the wedding season and everything's so crazy. And then it is almost nice to have like a corporate shoot and actually have that extra few minutes, like you said, to kind of make sure the metals, all, whatever, make sure like. It's just different because sometimes we really are just kind of run in your, almost behind the gun all day. You don't have time to like, do any events happening. Oh, wow. I actually have 10 minutes to really kind of set this up. Do you enjoy that? You feel that same thing? Oh yeah, absolutely. So there are definitely some high pressure, you know, like product shoots that I do. Um, that would be on par with a wedding. Cause on a wedding day, it is just go, go, go, go, go. And you don't have time to stop except for maybe five minutes when people are eating or like the minute for the ceremony when it's calm before the storm type thing. But no, when I am doing like product type stuff, like I did a shoot for Nintendo where it was crazy, it was, I literally have to just grab the product, put it on the screen, take a photo, look in the back. Does it look good? Keep moving. I had like two minutes per product versus when I do work for like leather man, I. Have like four hours per product where I can really fine tune and take my time and make sure everything is absolutely perfect. And, but that also comes down to, um, Nintendo is selling a power cable for like $6 versus Leatherman selling to a knife for like 300 or whatever. So. So, so if I'm somebody that's getting married right in, and we're going to hire you or anybody to be our photographer, whether some tips, you know, we're going to kind of go through each of these categories and kind of talk through scenarios. So, you know, what, what are some advice you give to the couples that you work with getting ready for their wedding day? Do you walk through really things kind of day off, you know, techniques, anything like that? I mean, walk me through that. Yeah. So, uh, I also made like a magazine that has a lot of the tips that I'm going to be talking about today. Um, you are in it as well. I did a letter little interview there. Um, but yeah, I just have a couple of quick things that no matter who you hire as your photographer, that you can look good in your photos. The first one is perfecting the princess wave. Uh, you know, elbow, elbow, wrist, wrist, um, but really like, it sounds silly, but when most couples, when they hug or, you know, you throw your arms around their neck slash shoulders, you know, that, that type of thing. If, if your hand looks like a claw on the shoulder, you could have be having a wonderful moment. But then when I take a picture of it, all I see is this big bony hands with the fingers, just kind of digging into the person. So, you know, to give it that more wedding feel with like the softer, more romantic vibes, being able to have like the fingers together and that soft hand and kind of just relax, set and not Claude and digging into skin. Those types of things with like more gentle, subtle touch really helps. Uh, get across, uh, like, um, The romantic feel and the demure feel and just kind of more softer, subtle vibes, because when you're going for kind of a soft photo, but you have this really hard angular thing in it that that just doesn't look at it and kind of ruins the moment. So that's one of those kind of amateur mistakes and hopefully your photographer should be catching these kinds of things and helping coach you through it because hands are definitely the hardest to do in any photo. For sure. Yeah, because even like, if I'm, if I'm posing, people are having, you always feel like, okay, my hands are we doing the pocket, got everything. What do I do with the hands? And then it's like, ah, After that, I don't know. Cause I always didn't. It never feels like even, even if I haven't. In the pocket. And I think I'll give Alex a weird, you know, later on or if I do it. Yeah. I'm always second guessing even like when I'm happy people do. So what do you, what do you tell, do you give them something to do with, you know, like. It was a bridal flowers. I mean, you give people something to do with their hands and every, I mean, what do you, how do you keep people like occupied, like all the extremities and everything. Do you have any advice for that? Yeah. So a lot of what I do as a photographer is rather than saying, okay, stand there, move your foot here, bend your elbow just a little bit. That's kind of the more nitpicky stuff that I will go in and fix once you're already in a position. But, um, if I start there, it makes you feel very stiff and posed. Posed in awkward. And during a wedding photo, you looking comfortable is more important than you having that perfect pose. Let's say I put you on a post, but you have like an arm injury and your elbow just doesn't bend that far. Well, it looks great, but your face looks like it's in pain. It's not a good photo. Um, so generally what I do is I try and give you a situation. So for example of, Hey, you two are walking in the park. Go ahead. Turn towards me. Hold inside hands. Look at each other. Just kind of like have a chat and walk towards me. So would that kind of thing. I gave them some direction on where to go as in hold that inside hand, but then the other hands just free Swain and they're walking towards me. And if you know, she has a bouquet and the other hand. Boom, your hands problem solved. Um, the other thing that I'll have them do is go ahead and, uh, you know, hug, throw your arms around each other. Um, and then I'll try and get a photo of like the ring. On her hand while she has her arms around his shoulders. And so for that shot, I just say, go ahead and hug, go ahead and throw your hands up there and get nice and close. And I just kind of see where the hands naturally fall. And because most people have a hand position and then from there I can just kind of, you know, nudge the fingers over and, and fine tune, but I'm giving them something to do when you're not thinking about what do I do with my hands. You already know what to do with your hands subconsciously. It just happens. Yeah. Where you're talking about, you know, getting them in situations and then fine tuning because, you know, we, we usually kinda always defer to however, the photographer wants to pose people and yeah, sometimes we'll, you know, You work with certain people. And I can't even assign me, like I have anybody off the top of my head, but like, Okay. You know, one, you know, one degree, one degree, one degree you're moving on this and you'll be, I do, you know, at some point you just kinda gotta let him. It's true. Because I'm like, I'm uncomfortable and I'm kind of watching this and I can't even imagine like, okay, now I gotta turn, okay. Now I got to do NASA. It just, it's a hard balance, right? Where people it's because you want him to look good. You want them to look flattering, but you also don't want to make them Joseph conscious. And then also you can't take 18 hours per photo. And of course, of course. Yeah. When you're in a fast paced situation, like a wedding. I've got my 90% rule. Am I 90% happy with this photo? Great. We're going to cut it and move on to something else. Because the other thing is you can spend a lot of time working on the photo, but if the couple doesn't even like that photo, all that time was wasted. So especially for a wedding, having variety, I think is more important than getting that last 10%, which is going to take all the time. But when I'm doing something a little slower, like fashion editorials or booed war. Uh, that's that open communication of like, Hey, it's going to feel nitpicky. It's going to feel repetitive, but we're not looking for 800 photos today. We need that one photo that you're going to absolutely love. That is interesting. When you talk about, you asked a couple of desert, like I remember on our wedding day that we had, um, we got married at Salty's and there was like a, uh, they kind of have like this weird, it's like a ship whole kind of port whole thing. It's really weird, like right next to it. And we were doing photos in there. Or the alerts to me and she's like, I hate like all of these. I'm like, you know, we just kinda gotta do it because you don't. You don't want to like, say anything? I'm like kind of break the vibe or like, yeah, we're just kind of, yeah. Like you said if we had spent an hour and they're, fine-tuning everything we would have screened. It's like, no, let's get 'em. Okay. You want to do that? Let's get them going. And then we moved on. But I remember George is. And then we got the photos back and she goes, yeah, he, all of these. Okay, it's fine. It was a one like five minutes. Our like it's okay. You know? You know, they, you know, they thought they were going to get something and, you know, but yeah. Like you say, you want to. You don't want to put all your eggs in that one basket, if it's not. Of course. And, and as a photographer, I will absolutely say not all my ideas are good ones. So, uh, you were talking about melody and James earlier, right before we did the bench. One that you talked about, we went into an alley and I post them right next to a dumpster. I'm like, trust me, you guys, you're going to love it. And they're like, are you sure? No, that would actually did turn out great. But there were a couple of poses where like, I'll shoot it. I'm 90% happy with it, but I realized to myself the amount of effort that it would take to make this to look good is not worth it. So there was this one, like pagoda gazebo type thing. Um, in the middle of a market, except they were actually having a farmer's market. So it was covered with like electrical cables and wires. And even though that was on the shot list previous to the day I showed up, took one photo with it and went, you know what guys is good enough if you like it, I'll Photoshop the heck out of it for you, but you're probably not going to pick this one over everything else we've already done today. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I'm like, I, then I can't do anything with us. Like there's why. I was like, I can't bother shopping. I can Photoshop with video significantly harder. Yeah. So if we're going, if we're transitioning, you know, you know, We're engaged, we're getting engagement photos. Um, do do a lot of the same rules apply. I mean, at least I think the difference would be engagement. Shoots are probably a little less time restricted, restricted, right? I mean, you have a little bit of. Yeah, with an engagement shoot. We definitely can play a little more on a wedding day. If you run late, you have all of your guests and vendors and, you know, venue that has a hard stop time. All of that's running late. Um, as a photographer on an engagement shoot. However, if we run 10 or 15 minutes late, as long as they didn't have anything else that they were going to that day. And if I am like traveling to like a waterfall or something, rather than just doing it at a local park, I won't schedule anything that day, either. So if we take a few extra minutes to kind of just refine that pose of like, this is going to go on to cover your guest book, I think you're really gonna, like it. Then yeah, we can take that extra time, but, um, on the wedding day, it's just the time pressure you got, you gotta know when it's good enough and keep going. Do you. Um, you know, we obviously would video, don't do a lot of that's a little bit more than a photographer thing would be engagement shoots. And I know a lot of photographers like it because you kind of get to know the couple, right. Get to kinda know what kinds of shots they like, what they don't like. Absolutely. Kind of dare interaction, right? Are they, some couples are in love and they're just a little stiffer than others and that's nothing against like the love that they have or the relationship that I was just, some people are physically. Right. Do you, whether some things you look for or advice for that, like, so if I'm with my partner, we're going to get engagement photos, you know, we don't get a lot of photos taken, you know, what. Whether there's some things maybe for the engagement side of things where maybe you, you don't know any of that context already. Yeah. So, um, uh, previous to recording, I came up with a whole list of just like random tips. That'll work for both wedding and, um, engagement shoot. But I think to answer your specific question, um, it really comes down to each couple is different. So if you're looking on Pinterest and you're like, Oh, I love that. And it's moody and dramatic and whatever, but you two are just a very happy, upbeat Boise. Mistress, you know, silly type of couple lean into it. Uh, so you don't have to get the Pinterest perfect photo. You have to get the photo that shows the two of you together. So for me and my wife, our engagement shoot, we dressed up pit. Um, she did like the victory curls for pinup style, and we went and did a, did a pinup shoot at Johnny rockets and did the whole drinking out of the same milkshake with two different straws. And it was super cute. And we got a ton of photos from that. Um, we absolutely loved, but I think it really is kind of like coming up with something that is you. Cause if you enjoy it and like it and are excited about it and can lean into that. Then it doesn't have to be your normal one. I'm working with a couple, uh, that's going to be Halloween 21. And that couple, their engagement shoot. They want to do that. Goth like graveyard, you know, dark spooky, their wedding theme is until death and cool. That's that? And we're going to lean into that and we're, you know, we're going to have fun with it and we're going to make it their photo. I think, yeah, I think that we have. I think together. I think that allowed me to get one. Yeah. That's going to be so much fun. They've already talked to me about their plans for the album. And so I showed them all their albums and they were like, we would like you to design the album, but do it on loose leaf pages. So I can turn it into the neck. Necronomicon from beetle juice. Cool. You do you. That sounds awesome. Do you w w. It were. And this is actually, probably not even really on it is on topic, but it was kind of outside the realm. You know, we see a lot of, I see a lot of couples posts looking for engagement shoots, right. Are like, you know, locations or ideas and stuff. Do you, is that something like, like you said, lean into what you want, what advice do you have for couples when they're trying to figure out? Because most of the time when they post online, everyone always writes, ask your photographer as well, but they're trying to, yeah. So, what, what, what do you tell people, like find the places to meaningful for you? I imagine only to get the words out of your mouth, what do you tell people if they're mean? Yeah, I basically have a three step thing for finding locations for engagement shoots. Step number one is, do you already have somewhere in mind if you already have somewhere in mind of like, Hey, this is where I proposed. Um, this is where we first met. This was where I first said, I love you. This is something that is super meaningful to us, and this is where we want our shoot. That's where you should do your shoot. Um, that's not something that your photographer knows or can tell you. So the first thing is you don't ask your photographer, like, do you know all these locations? If you already know this is where we want to go. If that's where you want to go. Go there do it. It'll be great. Uh, so if you don't have a place like that, the next thing that I say look for is actually look at the decor in your home. So when you're doing the engagement shoot, your prob like when you take wedding photos, that's you dressed up in wedding stuff and that ages, but when you're doing an engagement shoot and you can really shoot something that's more classic or timeless and can grow with you as you grow together as a couple or together as a family. So I say that when you're going to do like a huge, like, Picture above the fireplace. That's going to be there for years and years. You're probably going to do that from your engagement shoot. So think about what's the type of style and decor that you have in your home. And what kind of artwork would you like up there? Are you the type of person who would love a cityscape? Cause you actually have a pent house downtown Seattle, or are you more outdoorsy? And you'd love to do like a waterfall. So kind of let your decor and your taste and style for wherever that art is going to go, help dictate the location. Um, if you don't have any meaningful places and your decor style is blank palette, and you still don't know. Ask your photographer and basically decide for yourself. Do you want indoor outdoor? You want busy or secluded? Do you want bright colors or more muted? And then let your photographer just find and pick something for you. Those kinds of things, because. Like, if you go into a forest, there are some forests where it's just green and that's going to be super muted because there's not a lot of variation in color tone, or we can decide we're going to shoot it in autumn. And we're going to have a whole foliage forest of different colors, and that'll get you the more kind of bright, vibrant look. So there's lots of different ways you can go about it, but at least kind of knowing your taste and style for how you want the end photo would look, then your photographer can pick a location. You can say, yeah, that works. Yeah. So that's the tough thing. I have to think to clothing. Cause like you said, you know, your wedding day, okay. You got your, you know, your talks on your dress or what, you know, whatever you're going to do, but yeah. Trying to pick like that outfit or whatever that you're going to have on the wall for 10 years is like, now that to me is like stressful. Cause I mean, if you look at me, right, I'm not that keen stylist, that kind of guy, but um, You know, I, it is to, um, I think trying to like find the outfits, that match kind of where you're, I'm editing the video right now. And it's a really woodsy, um, wedding video. Am I? Her dress is really doesn't fit. Or you're really, doesn't Fe it's a beautiful dress. Right. And you're like, I don't really know. I mean, it's just tough. Right. And that's, so it's trying to kind of marry those two things together. Right. Do you find trying to. Pick outfits for people. And I mean, do you help with that? I even know, kind of my general policy personally on outfits is bring a few different options. And the day of I'll tell you what I like best. Um, so, so I say court don't match because matchy match is weird, but coordinate so that you look like you belong together when the photo gets taken. Um, and the other thing too is, yeah, just bring in a couple different things because if we show up and, um, you know, the pink is just radiating too bright in the sun. Then don't maybe don't wear the pink shirt, maybe go with like the light blue type thing. So, yeah. Part of it could just be like, Hey, I really like these three. I can't decide. And your photographer may say, you know what? I think this one's going to look really good on you, or you could put it on. And the one that you thought would be good, maybe it's a little too baggy. And you're like, you know what, we're actually getting on with the other ones today. So just pick a few of your favorite things that you really like and love and feel comfortable in, and then just decide day off. Cause. Yeah, I even, I just had a, uh, like an online, like a call or whatever. We're trying to do some corporate stuff next week. And they were even asking me like, what do we wear? And I'm like, I don't wear anything crazy. Like just, I was like, you know, just like some passed out. No really tight pin stripes that will radiate on camera really hard unless you shoot on Hasselblad. I did shoot in a studio where we shot on Hasselblad and Hasselblad specifically. Uh, so it's called Moray. For those of you listening, when those stripes basically aim your cell phone at your computer screen and watch all the stripes, just go nuts. That's Moray. So if you were one of those really small, tight patterns that makes the camera go crazy. Um, that's a bad thing trying to avoid that. Um, but otherwise just, you know, whatever, whatever makes you feel good. Uh, so, so we're kind of segue now to more of like the family shoots. Right. So if we're, um, and this could be, you know, I've seen, you know, pre-wedding staff, you got kids, you got animals, you got whatever, or, you know, post wedding, right. I mean, I think one of the coolest things about photographers as you can. Kind of grow with the couples, right. If they want to do that. Absolutely. Uh, which, you know, I always lament that. That's like, you know, you get me one day and then I'll like, you know, maybe your friend and they're, maybe your sister's been married. What do you, so what. What rules or whatever, apply differently to family, uh, family sheets and photos and sessions. Then, um, you may be weddings or engagement, any difference. A little bit. So with family photos, I mean, if it's just a family of two, like same kind of rules apply because it's just a couple. So, uh, th one differentiation that I'm going to throw in here is when you say family photos, I'm going to assume that you have kids or pets or something that you're throwing into the mix. So it's not just the two of you. Um, so. When you are, you know, have multiple people and you're that family unit number one, just kind of make sure you like each other. Um, so whether it is kind of like a soft, loving moment or like a fun act of boisterous moments, you know, Just being able to capture those moments. Um, is, is great. So especially with kids, sometimes a kid will show up and they'll be like, I hate this. Why do I have to wear slacks? These are awful. I actually just did a wedding where I'm the ring bearer was saying, I hate tuxes. Why does anyone wear a tux? I'm like, I kid, you look really good. The ladies are gonna love it. No. But no, sometimes the kid shows up and they're just not having it, but you picked like, Hey, we want to go shoot at the park. We'll take five minutes and let them run around and like have, have some fun. And like once they get the smile on their face, Come on back. Let's let's take some more photos and now like, Oh, photo shoots are fun. We can do that now. So, um, I've also done some family shoots where like the mom and dad are in the background. And I just tell the kids like run at me, just, just smile, laugh, run at me. And it's just kind of like a fun moment of chaos, but you know, it's like, Oh, that's our family. That's that's. What it looks like on a day-to-day basis. That's fun. So, yeah, there's a lot of different ways that you can kind of just do it. Um, but I think just kind of interacting with the kids and making sure that they kind of look happy and fun and that y'all like each other. It doesn't have to be the let's all stand in our perfect spot, you know, presidential portrait type thing, and stare into the camera. Um, you know, family photos, you know, mom and dad can be kissing and the kids can be, you know, playing and like that is a good family photo. So earlier when I was talking about the difference between all these genres is actually the end result. Does it fit the end result will the end result with a family photo is, do you like it? That's it, that's all we're looking for. So whether you're looking into the camera or looking at each other, if you like it. Awesome. That's it. Uh, is it hard? Um, and so in contacts or for, for context, my younger brother. Uh, ha uh, hates wearing jeans has never worn jeans is 27 years old now as never worn jeans, maybe two days in his life. Right. Uh, so every time we would go do like family photos, I have these vivid memories, you know, Christmas photos or like, um, I don't know, I graduation stuff or whatever. Like. Just, um, misery trying to get him to like wear stuff or look a certain way. I mean, what do you tell the parents if they have, is it just like, make them look presentable? It's okay. If it's not in all this, like, you know yeah. In color. I mean, what do you do? Well, um, one thing that I would say is like, if your brother doesn't like jeans, wear slacks, dress it up, be classy. Sounds good. Uh, no, but for kids who really don't want, want to, whether the thing, my brother and his wife, they always get, they have three kids and they always get the kids matching outfits for their family photos. So, so it's mom and dad, and then these three matching dresses and it's adorable, but they do have several photos where kid number one looks happy, kid. Number two, looks happy, kid. Number three, screaming. The other thing I would say there is, you know, what, you only need a split second of not screaming to be happy with it. So kind of like, uh, with like baby shoots of, yeah. Babies can have this curled up face and name. Yeah, but all you need is that split second or they like take a breath in. And I was like, Oh, they're not screaming anymore. You take that photo and you're done. So, yeah. One of the things is while you with video, you have to get this whole span of time that they have to look good for, you know, 15, 20 seconds. I need a 200th of a second of them looking good. So, um, really what it comes down to. Is, you know, do your best. You can bribe your kids with candy, try and try and make it. So it's a good, fun experience. Be excited that, Oh, we get to do photos, not, you have to do photos. Um, that kind of tone definitely really helps. Um, but yeah, I think the other thing too is just like, when you're there on set, if you've got a little kid in the family photo is just not having it. Take five, let them reset. It's okay. You can ask the kid what they like, you know, let them talk about Minecraft. Or Legos or whatever for a couple of minutes. And then they get all excited and animated and be like, great, hold that. And then. And I need to take more photos. So. Yeah, I think a lot of it just comes down to for family photos, make sure like the kids, or if you have pets, the pets not having it, let him run around for a little bit, rub their belly. It's all good. You know, grasslands can be photoshopped. Yeah. Given that given the pets is hard, getting the pets. Look. And do you find where you were deciding about you you'll only need like that split second? Do you find sometimes like family. Photos. Let's say the kids aren't behaving or people aren't whatever, but you you're like, no, I got exactly what I need, but they feel like, Oh, you know, just because yeah. Much less right than they do if they don't feel confident that I got it, I'll just show them the back of the camera. The other thing too, is if you have a family of, let's say like 10 or 15 and one, kid's not having it, but in another photo, he is face swap in Photoshop. Photoshop is magic. So. Um, yeah. All you really need for family photos is look like you look like you love each other. It looked like you like each other. That's that's helpful. Um, w whether you're doing, you know, Loud, boisterous fun photos or kind of more soft, tender all. That's such a sweet family photo. Um, as long as you look like you're having fun and like each other, it's going to be a good photo. Uh, w weddings, you know, there's that whole different thing of, I need all these photos for the album, family photos you need. What if you're doing a Christmas card, one for the front, one for the back. Do does locations and things, same rules apply as like engagement for those look at the decor of your house, or look at, I mean, if you're trying to think so. Yeah. For F for family photos, location-wise I generally stick to things that are either meaningful or completely nondescript. So if I have a park with enough, just kind of open space and I can use a long lens and I can just make the background, just look like this blurry, blue and green, nice kind of thing. And for me, if you look at a photo and say, Oh, I know where that is, then it's probably not a good photo because the subject is not the location. The subject is the family. But if you look at a photo and say, Oh, this is a really nice family photo, where was that? Oh, this was taken an Oxbow park. You're like, Oh, that's where the hat and boots are. Okay. I know that if like the location is secondary to having a good photo, then it's good. So, um, any park with lots of open room, um, any thing with like flat green hedges? You can stand in front of, um, anything would just kind of open space, whether that's water and sky, or like plain brick walls, I think plain nondescript backgrounds work best so that you can focus on the subject, which is you and your family. Versus, Oh yeah, we went to this one specific place and like went on a boat or something. If voting is really important to you. Awesome. Go on a boat. But otherwise I think just plain simple. Is it worth? Yeah. You know, obviously if you're putting together like an album or like an engagement album, right. You're doing all that stuff, but is it worth, I just, I see a lot of friends that get a lot of like, um, You know, professional or semi-professional like photos for baby announcements or shout out like Christmas or all this stuff. And then they'll like crop and all wonky dog to like put, you know, to put on shutter stock or they're put on, you know, whatever stretch. Shutterfly. Yeah. That do it yourself. Is it worth, at least chatty with your photographer? Like, what are the, like, how should I crop this if we need to crop it? And because obviously, you know, when you're framed me that you're afraid we did a certain way. And then you're kind of like hoping that they write, preserve that. Right. I mean, walk me through just your thoughts about that. Yeah. So when I'm talking to the photographers out there, I have different advice than what I'm talking to the couples out there. So when I'm talking to the photographers, the one thing to understand is once you give them their photos, they're out of your hands, you can't police and control it as much as you would like to. They're gonna do what they're gonna do. And there are some couples that are going to come to you and say, you know what? We want it to look the absolute best it can be. We want you to do this and print it for us and do all that. Awesome. Here you go. And then there are other couples that are going to take it to Costco or Shutterfly and crop it all walking in. Oh, the aspect ratio. Wasn't quite right. They don't even know that word. They just say it wasn't lining up in the hole. So I squished it and now everyone looks a little squinched and you know what, as long as they like it, they're going to do what they're going to do. Uh, but when I'm talking to came to the couples, Please don't do that. Please listen to your photographer. Um, no, but, but seriously. If you want to look good, there are some things that I will do if you order a print through me that I won't do. If I'm just handing you like 400 photos on a disk. Of like, Hey, does your teenager have a giant zit? I will take that out. And the ones that you order, but I don't have time to take that out of 400 photos. So, um, it's a little bit of that of just kind of like talk with your photographer. Um, if you do, there are definitely people that are like, Hey, I'm designing the Christmas card myself, because I'm, I'm also putting all my like home family photos on it. And all I need is this. Um, you can tell your photographer to have, Hey, actually the cards we're sending out this year, a square. So can you make sure to leave enough room on the edges no matter which way you shoot it so we can crop it to a square. So if you're doing it yourself, just kind of that open communications that your photographer can actually get the thing that you want. Yeah, I I'm just always so used to, because my whole world is, you know, landscape. And so I drew when I, you know, shooting the video. And so yeah, when I get some photos, it sounds like, you know, I need one that. That's this way because everything else on my website, that's all. You know, it's all the other way. Uh, so I want to transition the brood. War. I know we're jumping around here. You do a lot of that too, you know, I talk about, and obviously there just hasn't been as much of it right now, just because of everything going on. But like whether some of the, you know, pre-wedding stuff, what are some of the different reasons you see people wanting to do board you are? And then how do you kind of approach that? Yeah. So I think the one that most people think of, um, is like, Oh, I'm getting married. I want to do a gift for my husband type thing. Um, that's actually the reason that I have seen the least, I think it's the one that most people think of, but, um, there are so many other reasons why you would actually do boudoir. Um, one is just kind of like self-empowerment, so I've seen people with like, Hey, I lost 80 pounds. I feel amazing in my own body. I want to celebrate that and show that off. Awesome. Boudoir session is going to be great for that. There are other people that are like, you know what I just got out of, you know, at six year relationship, I want like the self-esteem boost and I want to feel wonderful and beautiful and, you know, having a professional makeup artist and hair stylist and photographer make you look absolutely amazing is a huge confidence booster. So there's that too. Um, and then there are people that just, you know, want to, you know, get photos of themselves and celebrate it. And so for any of these reasons, If that's why you want to do Boockvar great. You should absolutely do that. And then, so if I'm someone. Sorry, one sec. Yeah, no worries. Hey, Hey. Hey. Sorry. We were on a roll there. Sorry. Okay. Uh, Oh, go ahead. My friend just. She's like, have you been the sailor slogged lately? I'm like, no, but I, yes, I know everything that's going on. Um, So I would have to think that a lot of people that are wanting to do birdwatching might be nervous, or just because, like you said, you know, it's, it's not only is it challenging for some people just have photos taken of themselves, myself included. Right. But then here you are, you know, Can be a little more vulnerable, right? You feel a little more exposed. I mean, how do you walk people through being comfortable with, you know, with you doing it or any photographer and what advice do you give for people for doing the Bridgewater stuff? Yeah. So when I've worked with, um, women doing boudoir. Um, I'd love to do a dude wore haven't yet, but if you're listening, hit me up. Sure. Uh, but, uh, when I'm working with women doing booed wire, there are definitely all different, comfortable levels. There are some that like, Hey, they're actually a bartender or a dancer, or, you know, something who they feel super outgoing and extroverted and comfortable in themselves in their own body and doing booed wire for them is no big deal. Cool. And then there are other people of, yeah, I'm actually working HR, doing booed wire for me, feels super uncomfortable. I, I never done that. And so those are the ones where the very first thing is you have to work with a photographer that you completely trust because you're absolutely right. This is a very vulnerable experience. And you are trusting that photographer not only, um, not only to not be a creep, but you are trusting that photographer to make you look amazing. Nothing can be more disheartening than doing a boudoir session, putting yourself in that position, paying all of this money and then getting back all your photos and hating them. So, so part of that is definitely just like doing your research, making sure that you're choosing the right person to work with and that you actually do trust them. Um, I always do a pre-planning session with like an engagement photo session. Um, sometimes the planning is just a phone call with [unknown]. [unknown] session always have to have face-to-face or video chat to make sure that they understand what's going to happen. The expectations on both sides. Um, and that we can actually work through and plan out that session. Um, I think one of the huge keys to feeling more comfortable is planning. If you just show up to your session, you're like, I'm ready. What do I do? What was I supposed to bring? Uh, then yeah, it's, you're already off to a bad start, but when I work with Mike, uh, Couples or women or anyone who wants to do a boudoir session. Um, I say, okay, so these are the type of outfits that I'd like you to bring one of this, one of this, one of this, and then anything else that you think looks amazing. Uh, take this as an excuse to go on a little bit of a shopping spree and get the things that you would like for your session. Um, and then also, you know, walk me through your closet. What are the types of things that you like and feel comfortable in? And we just kind of have those conversations. So there are some women where they say, I want it all to be implied, which means that there is actually no nothing showing, including nipples. And then there are other women who say like, yeah, I don't care. That's fine. I'm the only one seeing it. I want to look great. So just kind of having that conversation with your photographer and making sure that everyone is on the same page expectation-wise can really help alleviate that anxiety. What. And this is a totally foreign Lacey. We don't do like really. I mean, maybe there's a lot of geographies. We do, but you know, video boudoir shoots, we ever, what are you? I have no even idea. What do you look for? Are you looking for a little moments? I mean, what do you w what does that session look like? I don't, I have no idea. I have no context. ASCA and it tells you a question. Yeah. So I generally just tell them, take the whole day off. We're gonna, you know, take it slow, pamper yourself. It's going to be a good session. I don't want you to have part of the time block and be rushing off to something or in the back of your head thinking, what time is it? I hope he finishes. So that we can get going to my meeting or whatever it is. So, um, the very first thing is, um, I book a professional hair and makeup artist for you. Um, unless you specifically, what requests not that's already included, um, because. I found that a lot of people either don't want to do their own makeup or they want that feeling and experience of being pampered of having someone else doing it for them. So you have professional hair and makeup. And then I like to show up kind of when they're doing their thing, we can have coffee, we can chat, you know, just get comfortable being in the room. And then, so the session for me, it lasts about three hours or so. Um, and that is a long time versus a portrait session with a couple would maybe be one hour. But the difference is, like I mentioned before, it's much slower shoot. We're really going to walk things through. And what I'll do is when I take a photo and I like 90% of it, I will show them, Hey, this is the thing that I like, but can you arch your back just a little bit more because then we can get this nice curve in this spot and then, Oh, okay. I see what you're saying. And then the next photo I take they're like that one. I absolutely love that one. Cause when it comes to like a couple's photo, if you're like, eh, You know, I kinda like that one, we look kind of cute. That's generally good enough for most couples, but when you're doing a brood war photo, because of just the nature of the shoot, if you only half, like it. It's not a good photo. You have to absolutely love though. So we're going to take a little more time to kind of refine those. And then of course you have, you know, four, six, however many different outfits, and I'm going to try and make sure that we give ample time to each one of those things that you brought. Yeah. It just, it's so much about them, you know, like you said were like, Dorothy and I are walking down the beach and, you know, people were looking at her and me and maybe Rosie and that, you know, the landscape. You kind of looking at everything with the brood war, it's like, that's all it is. The ones about you. Yeah, you look good. Do you, how did you, um, Techniques and things. How did you learn that just through trial and error, or was that something, how did you kind of develop helping people kind of guide through that process? Yeah, there was definitely a lot of research and talking to other photographers and I'm practicing with models who already felt comfortable doing booed. Guar so that I could get up to their comfort level before I worked on quote, unquote, real people. Um, so, uh, or people who felt less comfortable in their own skin. So how it got started was it wasn't just one, but it was multiple requests from brides saying, I love your work. I want to do booed wor I want you to do my booed. Guar. And it was, well, I don't really do that, but I got enough of these requests. I need to learn how to do that. So, um, if you're a photographer and you're just getting started higher models. Uh, and get a model who already feels comfortable and already knows posing and can help elevate that to where you need to go. And then start there. If you feel comfortable being in the room, feel comfortable, posing and directing, feel comfortable, finding your style and finding the photos that you like before you, um, before you practice on a person who getting a bad photo could really shatter their confidence. If you get a bad photo of model, they just know you're a bad photographer and they're fine. Uh, do you, do you. I mean, I know it's probably not for everybody. Do you advise people if they're interested in that, you know, talk to a photographer, you know, obviously if you're working with a wedding photographer already, you know, see if that's something maybe that they do where they have advice about. I mean, I know that the photographers I worked with that have done the brood war, you know, Andy engagement session needed a day of it just, there's a lot of cohesion there just in terms of. Kind of everybody's on the same page, but I mean, if I'm somebody that's just curious about it, like what, what do you even do if I'm going to, if you know, like not the photographer, if I'm a couple or a client, you know? Yeah. So if you're a client and your interest in boudoir, Guar, the first thing would be ask. So there are some wedding photographers that say, yes, I do boudoir. Okay. Well, why don't I see it on your site? And maybe they have a reason or maybe they don't and if they don't have anything, they can show you. Maybe they're not the right fit for you. Um, they might be great for your wedding, but maybe not for booed war. Um, there, I know there are photographers that specialize only in boudoir, cause they said, you know what? Wedding days are too long. I'm too old for that. I don't want to do it anymore. I just do boudoir and they're really good at it. So there. There are those kinds of photographers too. Um, but the other thing too is you're absolutely right having that cohesion of, I did your, uh, portrait session back then. I did your boudoir session. Now I did your engagement session, your wedding session, your, your baby's first session, your Eno anniversaries. There is something to just, I, you know, that creating that connection. I love your work. Um, and just trusting that you've done a good job six times already. I know the next one's going to be great too. Uh, so kind of an odd transition to head shots, but I do want to talk about that too, just cause I know that that's something you do. I did a, um, I had the film of event this year. That was like, they were given 10,000 headshots. They were doing for all people. Like if you had lost jobs because of like COVID and everything. Oh, yeah. And so there's when you're talking about. Yeah, it was just, it was interesting just to, cause I just, I don't do a lot of heads, you know, I don't like having it. I don't, I've never really done either side of that. But it's interesting. And I think it's where it's similar to the brood war. Bar where it's, you know, it's obviously just focused on either the person, but to me that it's tough because like that is you trying to get a job, you know, what, what do you. How, how does that relate and how do you look at headshots? Yeah. So when I was talking earlier about, there is a goal for the photo for weddings. It's I want this to be a beautiful album or beautiful piece of wall art for family photos of, I want to like this photo enough to go on a Christmas card for headshots. The goal is I want someone to hire me. So, whether you are self-employed and you're looking for actual clients or an actor looking for casting director, there is someone on the other end of that photo judging you. And determining whether they want to give you their money. So the key to headshots is confidence and approachability. So confidence comes from the eyes and approachability comes from the mouth. And really it is just kind of like practicing those two things. And if you can get that down, then you can look and feel like a celebrity. So if you have the, you know, scared up arch. Eyebrows in your photo, then people are like, Oh, I don't know what it is about this photo, but I don't think they're good at their job. But then if you have, you know, the great stern look, but you're frowning, they're gonna be like, Oh, I bet that Lori was really great, but he might be kind of mean, I don't know if I actually want to talk to him. So if you have both confidence and approachability, that makes an excellent headshot. And I would say headshots nine times out of 10, look down the barrel of the camera, make sure that you are connecting with the viewer. On the other side of that, who is judging you because nine times out of 10, that is going to help rather than. Hinder, uh, the 10th time is if you're actually like an author for a blog or something, and you want your headshot to reference your bio, then your headshot should actually looking off to the side, wherever the text is on the website, because people will look at you, they look at the face first, then they look at your eyes and then they see you're not looking at them. And that's weird. Why isn't he looking at me? What is he looking at? Oh, he's looking at this text. I should read that. It's just so hard. I it's really hard with the headshots and it's cause it's all on that one thing. If they're looking to weird, I mean, we're visual people. I know, you know, I I'll do 'em. Even like with the podcast. I'm a get to know your wedding pro one. I haven't necessarily met everybody and Mike Elson head shots, and you know, you'll look in your head. You're like that guy kind of looks like a D or like, I don't know. Get these preconceived. I just think it has to be so challenging. Uh, you know, as a photographer that gives somebody something that's like conveys a message, but then it was also like really vanilla, like not offensive at the same time. So, so, uh, I have a perfect story for this. Uh, my brother is a pediatric dentist, so he works with kids and he owns his own dental practice and he needed a head and he actually wrote a book too. And his editor told him your headshot sucks. Get a new headshot. Because two things were wrong with it. It was a Photoshop background of like a fake Hawaii, tropical something. And the second thing wrong with it is he had this real cheeseball smile on his face that looked like a grimace are. So he can't do, he was like, okay, I need to go to headshot. Let's do this. And I've seen him smile my entire life. And he has had that. I want to show both rows of teeth, smile, his entire life. And I'm like, Roger, you stop that. Or I will slap that smile off your face. Um, but it really comes down to if you have a bad habit like that, try and break down the habit. And when he was thinking about, Oh, you're about to take a photo, I need to smile. Then he was doing this weird contortion in the mouth that was making it look awful. So I just started talking to him like, Hey, so played any good X-Box games lately. He said, no, it's because I wrote a book. But then he started laughing and boom, there it is. So like, just kind of like if the photographer can talk with you and you can just kind of chat about stuff, obviously he doesn't want to take the photo while you're talking because you get that. Mouth mid open photo. But no, it just, if, if your photographer can make you feel comfortable in front of the camera, Then you're going to get a good photo. Um, I worked with a psychiatrist office where I was just zooming through the whole office, getting everyone who worked in the building. And there was one I had about five minutes per person. So I can kind of, you know, build that rapport. And some people only took two. Some people took a little longer, there was one guy who he felt like Santa Claus. He was nice and jolly and awesome and felt very generous in giving in the two minutes that I spent with him. But then I put the camera up to my face and he looks like he's about to eat your child. I don't know what was happening there. And so it was this give and pull of trying to catch him in that nice, beautiful, genuine moment in between the weird contrived thing he was doing with his face. So, uh, for those of you at home who need a new headshot practice in the mirror, confidence. Use your eyes, make sure that you look like someone who knows what they're doing and then approachability and make sure you look like a nice person. People want to work with. Cause like if you're an actor getting hired for like a Broadway show, they're stuck with you for the next six months to a year, they want to make sure you're not a Dick. Any other kind of, I know you said you had jotted down kind of some general tips. Uh [unknown]. That doesn't fit in any of these or anything I forgot to ask in terms of kind of general tips. Yeah, sure. I'll just kinda rattle down a list here. So, uh, if you're doing weddings or a couples photos, a couple of things is avoid straight lines. So when you turn and hug each other, You're just going to be too straight sticks and it's going to look stiff and awkward. So, uh, men just kind of put your feet, a shoulder with the part so that you're not, you know, super close together. Women go ahead and just, you know, bend the knee, put the foot out. Bend your elbows. Um, for anyone who's studied art there's contrapposto, which is asymmetrical arrangement of the body and make sure that your shoulders, if you're shifted to one side, your weight is on one foot and more than the other, your hips aren't aligned your shoulders. Aren't lying. It just adds a little bit of intrigue and interest to those photos. Um, especially when you're doing a couple of shoots, uh, no hand on the belly. Uh, that is a maternity shoot. That is not for weddings or family photos. Unless you're going for that, then do the hand on the belly, but otherwise, no, stop it. Hips or waist, not belly. Um, something else is if you can plan the timing of your shoot, so you can be backlit, uh backlighting is magic. Assuming you're a photographer, knows how to handle it. Um, But yeah, if you say, I want to go down to the park and the park is, you know, has this waterfront where the sun's beautiful over it. Well, is the sun beautiful over it at sunrise or sunset? Because you don't want to get the opposite one, and then you're going to have a really harsh sun in your face and that's gonna be less flattering. Um, the last thing I would say for weddings is don't try too hard, um, on your wedding day, you're in love. You look amazing, but if you try and put on model face so that you can. And make sure that you look good, your photos probably aren't going to come out as good as if you were just being genuine in the moment. So I think that pretty much covers it for weddings. Um, the only other thing I would say for boudoir since that's one that we covered is, uh, listen to your photographer plan, head, open communication before the shoot, make sure you're both on the same page. Open communication during the shoot. If you have some injury that doesn't allow you to do a pose, speak up and say, so if you feel uncomfortable doing a pose, speak up and say, so, um, book a massage for the next day, cause modeling this hard and you probably underestimate how hard it's going to be to do some of the poses and positions. Um, Yeah. And then just for headshots practice in front of a mirror, see if you like the way that you look, um, and then just work with the photographer who can take a little bit more time if you're doing one of those 10 seconds, you know, assembly line run-throughs, you're probably not gonna like your photo as much as someone who. Takes the time to talk with you. That's great man. Uh, anything else that you wanted to touch on? I mean, this is, we hit my gambit. I was there anything else that you have that in your back pocket that you wanted to make sure we got onto that? No, no. Uh, those are pretty much all my tips. Uh, I just, I just have my little sign off. Oh, your, uh, your, your plugs and everything else. Yeah. Well, first off before we go and talk to me about your podcast and what you guys are trying to do over there before we do anything else. Yeah. So, uh, with my friend Stuart, we are running the photo op podcasts. That is the photo opinion podcasts. We talk about all things, photo, video, and camera related. I'm kind of more of the artistic side. Steward is more of the techie side. He's also a videographer, but he's kind of a Jack of all trades where he just does a ton of really cool stuff. And we just talk about news or new gear or tips, um, I just did a trip and we talked about landscape photography. So yeah, we just kind of whatever opinions that we're talking about trying to entertain, and that one is centered 100% for. Photographers. So if you are photographer, videographer worked with the camera, then that podcast for you for all of the couples who are just here for your awesome wedding tips, probably not as interesting. It's so good. It's so good to hear, you know, people that are knowledgeable about things it's really, you know, it says, I try to be knowledgeable about kind of everything on this podcast, but it is nice where having a photographer, you're talking about all sorts of photography stash. And if, yeah, if you're any interest in, in all that kind of stuff, there's just a wealth of knowledge over there. So. Yeah. Um, eh, Yeah. Please feel free anywhere else that you want people to check out about your wedding staff. I know you do like, you know, cosplay and advertising and product stuff and just all. You know, tons of different stuff. So where would you have people check out? Yeah, so I do a million different things, but if you go to my website, non-creative dot com, that's November Oscar, Mike, and then the word creative.com. Um, that is basically kind of a hub. And then from that hub, the website, you can go check out my booed. Wore my weddings are my head shots or whatever. Um, product photos are coming soon. It's something that I've done for a very long time, but my, uh, website until quite recently has been solely focused on portraits. So those will be added in the near future. But yeah, if you want to see any of my stuff, it's just, non-creative on your social media platform of choice. Also, thank you so much. Again, this is great. I said, I want to do a podcast together. What are we going to talk about? And I'll put, this was great. I think. Just you. You know, once we kind of get back out of the craziness of everything. People are still gonna be taking photos. Lots of different stuff and not everybody likes getting her photo taken. So, uh, you know how to have excellent photos taken the view, I think is great. And I really appreciate you taking the time today. Yeah, thank you so much. It's always fun talking with you and I can't wait to be behind the camera with you again. I know. We'll get there at some point. Uh, if you have a question for a future episode of the podcast, you can go the best made videos.com/survey.

Episode 17 - Elevating “Zoom Weddings”

Well, thank you guys so much for joining today to do this fun round table. I was talking with Alan and Greg, both kind of together and separately about ideas for this and trying to kind of brainstorm, basically taking the whole idea of a zoom wedding. I know receptions and have slightly kind of opened up now, but I do think the zoom thing is going to be here for a while. I have a consult with one of my couples for December. They're honestly trying to debate between doing it now versus waiting. And I think the idea of being able to live stream part of the day would actually incentivize them to get it done in December. Right. And not have to postpone which. Uh, the groom was very relieved about when I think, cause I don't think he realized that we do that sort of thing. So, thank you guys so much for joining. Um, Alan, I wanted change. Do you see yourself and then Greg, and then we'll kind of set the table for today. I am Alan s**t like, and my company is Puget sound, DJ. I'm Greg louder. And my company is affairs to remember entertainment and I am a master ceremonies, disc jockey, and I do some lighting. And Zuora. Two, I'm a zoom moderator. Yeah, Greg and I had a Memorial service on Sunday and he, uh, kind of wit. Kind of spurred this whole thing and I joked with them and I said, yeah, you should definitely add that to your business card now. Like digital. Uh, digital correspondence, someday, moderator, whatever, but I want to thank you guys so much for being here. I think. Alan had I had texted Alan, I'd emailed them. I said, Hey, Alan, do you want me to come up with some questions for today? And Alan said, no, I think we should do this. Just purely conversational. And so I figured. I'm teasing. I told Alan, we would do this conversation late, but I think we should do is I think we should go around the horn and figure out whether some problems or potential problems, shortcomings with zoom, weddings, you know, trying to do. And even obviously Memorial services. And we don't want to joke about that too, but, but it's a real thing right now where people are not able to attend these events. And so I want to figure out whether some potential issues and then how can we, and specifically. To you guys, because. I think a lot of people think about DJs and they think about audio, which obviously we're going to talk about today too, but it's also just the whole idea of having somebody there to kind of guide the ship, kind of figure out what's going on. I know that if all the wet, the ones, the weddings that I've done, it's a lot of me like typing in the chat or like trying to yell at the efficient, like, Hey, say something to the live stream, which, you know, obviously. We're going to try to fine tune all that stuff today. So Greg. Uh, we'll start with you. When you hear the idea of a zoom wedding, some issues and problems that you think that you could help solve. What are some issues? Well, interestingly enough, I just, a few weeks ago, I attended my first zoom wedding as a guest. And, um, I w it was in Arkansas and it was a very good friend of mine and, and his, his daughter, who's also a friend of mine and in. The one thing I didn't realize the time. And I wish I had made a suggestion to them, but they were, um, first of all, no cell coverage there. The middle of nowhere, Arkansas. That's understandable. That's going to happen. You get the low bandwidth. Pop-up. Um, but the one thing they didn't do. Two that are important is they didn't check the box and they're all, all the problems are a little different, but they didn't check the box that said mute. Everybody on, uh, when they, when they come into the chat. Um, and so people would come in and some people were on phones. So if you're on zoom and you're just listening, it's really tricky. And some people would come in on video and, you know, start having discussions. And of course you're in the middle of the ceremony and it's, you can't really communicate with them. Um, the other thing, and this is kind of what you were talking about a minute ago when I did on Sunday for the Memorial service, but it would work well in a wedding is, um, have someone that is not onsite. I mean, you can have them on site, like I was, but I think it's even better to have them not onsite. Put them down as, um, the, um, What a zoom call it the yes. I'm just making notes. Yeah, the host of the event. And then they can just like I did on Sunday, facilitated, greet everybody. Thank them for coming. Maybe initiate some conversation, introduced people. Um, and then once things start. Um, you know, let people know that what's going on and, and, and, and, you know, mute people. I mean, that was the key is just if people had been muted when they came in. It would have been all the difference in the world. Um, You know, but, but that would have been hard to do in the middle of nowhere. In, you know, for us, it'd be like, you know, stay. The home is share out in the boonies a little bit with no cell coverage. Perfect. So I'm going to end up these down and we'll go back through. So, Alan, what are some, some things that come to mind when you, when you hear it? You know, I mean, in any kind of use the guy at the horror thing, right? Like a zoom wedding. Oh my gosh. And now it's like, totally. It's like. We had the Sunday, I had the Memorial. A wedding on Tuesday. We have another wedding on Saturday. I mean, this is very much a thing right now. So, Alan, what are some things that you think of. Well, first off, I agree with the theory that zoom weddings are here to stay. I don't think that it's just until we. Uh, make the, the hump over the virus then, and all of a sudden it's gonna stop. I think there are some advantages to zoom weddings in terms of. Uh, The travel and the number of people that you can be in involved and things like that. And I think that we have seen the infancy of zoom weddings, where maybe it's just a ceremony and maybe it's just very one way. Right that you're, you're at the wedding and you're broadcasting it to your friends. But I think the next evolution is going to be way more, two way where. Uh, the couple or that anybody who's there in person will be able to interact in some way with the people who are there. Uh, in, in, uh, online. So I think as you think about those things, the first thing that you have to have is good audio. Yeah. And I don't think that couples necessarily think of that. They think of. A zoom and it's just going to work because when I work on my computer, people can hear me on my computer mic, or if I'm on my phone, people can hear that, but it's a whole different story. To have a camera or another device, 30 feet away or 40 feet away right now. Uh, I am this far away from my microphone. Um, And. With today's technology read. I'm interested to hear your take on this, but I feel like with today's technology, a good camera can get a great shot. From 40 feet away, but there is no way to get good sound. From 40 feet away or whatever. So I think couples have to start with that presumption. How am I going to get good sound? The best way to do that is to have microphones all around, you know, From a ceremony standpoint, have a microphone on the efficient. If, uh, if there is a group, have a microphone on the groom. If it's two brides, think through some other place that you might be able to put one, um, And then anybody who's speaking just needs a Mike and those need that sound. Needs to go somewhere into a central location and then come back out, however you're broadcasting it. Whether it's. Through a phone or a tablet or a laptop or a good video camera. Take that sound and, and get that out. And I think that's going to help build, um, the enjoyment for the guests, because really if the picture cuts out, But you can hear it. You'll stay. You you'll you'll listen and you'll be involved, but if you could only just see the picture, but you can't hear or understand what they're saying. I don't, I don't think that's very enjoyable at all. Yeah, it's so hard. The whole zoom thing. And you know, we, we do a variety. I, you know, I usually do a YouTube, at least four. Kind of the one way out. I think it's so hard for, for clients and couples. I had a zoom. Uh, uh, like a Microsoft teams call yesterday with a client looking for corporate work. And she was trying to figure out what zoom, and it was kind of the same conversations we're having now. And she goes, well, you know, we were, we had a company and they were live streaming. For us and we've had some issues and so what can you offer? And I said, well, what, yeah. What kinds of issues were you guys having? What's going on? Well, you know, sound staff and what, you know, the, the thing cut out or there was getting feedback. And I said, well, honestly, a lot of that is probably just problems with zoom, right? I mean, Like you said, we stand here in front of the computer in Utah. And I mean, we even had a little bit of kind of setup today trying to figure out like camera placemats and mikes and stuff. And this is just us three standing and pretty controlled environments, you know, not a lot of stuff going on versus. You know, my one on Tuesday, we were like, eh, Uh, Crescent Lake or Lake Crescent or whatever out in port Angeles. Yeah, I'm set up on like a picnic table on the beach with like cables running and he's just a lot more staff to dos. Yeah, like you said, A lot of the issues as simply come down to just, you know, the programs and just the assumption that like, well, if it works. Like this. Then, yeah, I can just spend a laptop out on a, on a chair, somewhere at the ceremony and it's going to be the same thing. We have. Our friends are getting married in a couple of weeks and I'm just going to film their wedding for them. And they're having me do that for, because I offered to come bring and set up an in-charge. A little bit more to do the whole live streaming thing, just cause we, it, we pay for the data. It costs a lot because a lot to stream it's like 10 bucks a gig. Each way, like up and then to process it. So, so it costs a lot, but they said, well, now we'll just, just put a zoom, like they're doing. It kills me. Right. But I'm like, what am I going to do? You know, it's not. And it's not my wedding. So, Greg, what are you thinking about that? Well, a couple things I think watching you on, on, on Sunday and the technology that you have available and the. You know, we were set up to go a couple of different directions with Alan. We were one way for the Memorial service. And then two way, like you were talking about Allen for the open house where I was moderating and talking to people and, and that meant we had a lot of technology. And I think if you can afford it and it's, you know, it's important to you and your grandparents are going to be there than hire a professional because they're going to do it right. And there are so many different scenarios. We were set up for about six different scenarios and ended up running a hundred feet of cat five cable, just to get enough internet to do it. And to do it right. And the YouTube look great. And 80 people, 80 people, I mean, that's crazy. We're watching that and in live, but if you have to do yourself and this is what I was thinking, So let's say we're doing zoom and we're doing it. Like I described the, the cell phone. Um, Could us as sound guys. Let's say didn't have a professional. So they're doing it with the zoom. They have a camera on us on a tripod up front they're using wifi or cellular. Let's just say they have enough service. Could we be in the back? Also zoomed into the call. Or the sound people near the speakers or plugged in off of our board in some sort of way to give them the microphones. And then we just zoomed in and they were audio on one channel and video on another. Would that work? I didn't know. Can you pan can you pin video with one and then has, I guess you could bring up your audio. Yeah. I mean, again, you need somebody to meet the right people cause you, you would get feedback or could off the camera one, but that might be something interesting to try cause, um, and then the question would be as, could we bring it in off of our board? I certainly could do it on a laptop, but I don't think I could do it on a phone. To run the audio straight in there off of my board. Maybe, I don't know. I that's, that's an interesting question. So if I brought a mini plug off of my, as an output off of my mixing board into my phone, would that then put the audio on zoom? I don't know. I think it would, if you, if you set it as line in, Oh, you're. Just just like I would off of Spotify or, or, or, uh, I've never, well, I've taken it back. I've never done it. Broadcasted out. There's something to try. Because in theory, I think it would cause it's you're you're you're each a mic input. So there might be a possibility at least to do it, but I certainly would test it way before I tried it and stuff. Yeah. Swing. Box. For this. Yeah, sling studio. Studio. So, yeah, so my wedding. In a couple of weeks, I talked to the groom two nights ago. A bride and groom. And they said that we're going to use that. And to the friends of them, use it for a hunting and fishing show on Facebook live. And they have little labs and they keep it close. But in this case, we're actually going to do what we just talked about. So they're going to shoot video. From two or three cameras up front. Into. I don't know what platform they're gonna. Oh, no. It's um, there's some app like it's called wed. Wed broadcast or something like that. And then they're going to run the audio off of my board from the sling studio thing. So I'll let you know how it goes. It's it's that balance between getting too in the weeds with all this? I mean, it's, I think, and Alan and I were talking about this before we started too. I think. The perception is, you know, Alma Sanchez. If you have a video person, right, they're going to be responsible for the audio too, and that can be accurate. And then that's also. There's a, there's a line. Right? And so the, the one that we had on Tuesday, Um, yeah, normally I, you know, like obviously when I was with Greg at the Memorial, having the DJ is awesome because they handle all of that. I'm just plugging in. When you elect turn the live stream, there's a lot of other staff you're trying to deal with. Right. And so like if I've got three cameras set up, you know, you're, you're trying to figure out about the cameras and those batteries and the shots and the exposure is, and then you're trying to make sure that. The stream is staying connected that it's going to YouTube. That you're talking to people in the chat. If they have questions, you know, you're, you're moving cameras as you need to be. So it's really nice to have a DJ there too, or, you know, or some stories of sound person. I mean, just to be able to run. Yeah. Just to kind of take that Austin off our plate now, obviously like we can, um, you know, I have a couple of wireless mics, but the wedding that we had on Tuesday, Yeah. You know, we had talked a couple of weeks ago, I'm trying to figure out what was going on. And I said, well, Hey, so what's, what's kind of your game plan for that, for the wedding, you know, in my head, I'm thinking, you know, officiant. Bride groom really easy, kind of set up. And she goes, well, actually, you know, we have, um, there's two efficients and then there's us, and we're doing our own vows. You know, we're not doing like repeat after me vows. So that means that they're going to need to be Mike too. Um, cause that's a good question. Right. You know, if you have a bride, you know, whoever get married, if, if it's just kind of like a repeat after me, you don't obviously you want to hear them, but you don't got to be like in their face with it. You can get a little more like ambient noise, maybe. Right? Sure. Then they had, they had, you know, a mother like two fathers and then the grandparents were all going to toast and they all wanted to be separate because of social distancing. Wow. And I told her, I said, you know, you really need to have an audio person. You really need to have this. We're trying to live stream on the side of a Lake in the middle of nowhere. I, you know, we got the signal out. It was. You know, if the bubble. You know, we got it, but I said, you really need to do this long story short. I, you know, we thought we had a plan in place. I show up wasn't the right plan. And so then it's on me, right. To figure out like, how the heck is this going to happen? And it, you know, it ended up being okay, but I think had, they just have had it, and I know that extra. $800,000, you know, whatever to do bright for you guys, like run a ceremony. Sometimes it's worth it. If you're not having all those guests come and you have that extra cash, I mean, what do you guys think about that? About, about. The money that you're saving and then using that to hire an audio professional album, what do you think. Well, I think that certainly getting someone in charge of that audio who knows the technology. And can achieve that. Is going to be a great starting point for that zoom wedding to be successful. Right. The guests being able to hear is really job number one and. Having a professional, who's both got the equipment and the knowledge and can sort of guide you through how to do all that. I think makes a lot of sense, but then there's, there's many other things that even in these more limited zoom weddings that AE. Person who's been a host and an MC. I can help you with, and they can sort of moderate the. The zoom room. And, and, and, and the chat and they can sort of help potentially facilitate the guests being entertained. Maybe if you're trying to zoom for the whole day. Maybe there's a point at which there's a cocktail hour or there's dinner. Uh, and that's not very interesting to watch from remotely, but maybe you've got somebody there who's whose. Working with the guests and entertain them, playing games, two truths and a lie or something, whatever it is about the couple. Um, That keeps those, those things potentially going. So, uh, and then. Musically. I think it's important for couples to. I have the experience of getting the music play that they want at their ceremony. I, you know, I think. Many people, uh, have a vision of what they want to hear when they're walking down the aisle. And. You can try to get your cousin. To do that. Uh, I'll come on. Uncle Bob, but it's not a guarantee, but if you, if you have a professional come out, you're going to get that music played. And, and people don't really think about this, but there are some timing issues with processional songs like. When somebody like Greg ARIDE does a ceremony. Uh, When. Uh, if it's, uh, if it's a bride, the bride. Gets up to the front. We're going to fade that out sort of at the right time while she's got that when she gets there. But somebody who doesn't know might just want to let that whole song run through. Cause the bride picked it out. And so everybody's standing there really awkwardly, like when does a song going to be over. Um, I prefer really they're really harsh stop where they just hit stop and then it just, that's what I, that's what I prefer. And then the AHCA has. I should have done that at your wedding brother. The pause button on the Spotify. Or, or even Alan too, when they get to the front, sometimes it's, uh, 10 to 2025 second difference in weather. You fade it when she gets to the front. I'll if you fade it when the past, you know, they do the handoff. Sometimes the pastor says something. If you don't ask those questions, the song I'll either in too soon or too late, um, And not be good cause that you know how that 30 seconds of silence is why they do the handoff. Yes, and it's always awkward. The other part. Yeah, please continue. Well, I was also going to say that, um, one other thing that can be helpful in today's environment is testing all this stuff. There are certainly situations where I think couples are. Getting ready for their wedding. And they've got uncle Bob. Set to do his thing. And something goes wrong. Right. Uh, so having a professional there, in my opinion, I would try to. Rehearse. It just like you rehearsed the ceremony and the order in the processional rehearse the technology. Make sure that you've got a good angle. If you were doing it on something like a phone. Um, make sure that it's not blocking anything else that photographer or any of the parents or what have you, and make sure that the sound is good. Enlightening. Yeah. And then the, the, uh, web cams and SEPTA. Yeah. Don't handle that the same way that the professional cameras do, you know, then you ended up with like a. A little letter or something. Yeah. Or white balance will be off. Uh, the other thing too, with the music and it's so funny. Cause we've had, I'm trying to think of the last time we did a wedding that they had it. We've had a lot of the friends do it lately. And when you talk about the music. And it is it's so it's weird. It's so important. What people walk down the aisle too. I mean, that was a huge thing for Dorothy and I mean, it really is, and whether you've been married or not, and I thought it was like not whatever. And then we. It's our plan and you know, it's a whole thing. But it really is. And so when you're having someone do it. I think they can, um, sometimes nail. You know, someone coming in, but it's always that recessional song, because at that point dinner watching the thing they're not paying attention are one Tuesday. Cause I'm watching her. You know, she's sitting there watching it in front of me, everyone in the stream and the Bluetooth speaker is off in the corner and I see, Oh, shoot. You know, get up and run over. Cause you get invested in all that, right. And so it, you know, I can't think of the last time I had one where they weren't already like up the aisle and then. This starts playing and you just eat. And I know it's like a whatever, and it's 2020 and who cares. But I do think that that is an important thing that, that if people really care about that, it is worth kind of getting that nail. And especially when it's like, I'm on. A zoom call or whatever, if there is kind of just a delay, you know, you start playing the music, it just seems like everything's on like a five second delay on zoom calls anyway. So like by the time you, yeah, they play that music and they're long gone and then you're like, well, you know what the heck, even. What's the point of even doing that, right. If we, if we aren't going to get it. If we're going to plan this and it's not going to work, then what was the point of even planning that to begin with? You know, the man. Yeah. I mean, I've, there are a couple officiants in town that I purposely. Um, Try not to get emotionally invested in their ceremonies. One in particular who unfortunately isn't with us anymore. Thank you, Mary. Um, I literally would just listen to our beginning. I listened for my cues. And cause I remember one time. Willow's lodge and I got into it and, and, and she steps out her, her big thing is she'd step out and talk to the audience and tell the love story. And, you know, Let's say, I know there's like a tear coming down my cheek and a minute. And then all of a sudden I realized, Oh crap, I'm like five seconds from a music cue. And it's like, okay. And after that, as much as I loved her, you know, I love listening to her voice. I just had to list like, you know, almost tune it out a little bit, as far as getting emotionally invested in the same thing can happen if your guests are doing and you want them to be, I mean, Don't get me wrong. You want them to be. So. No, absolutely. Um, so I we've got some lists here. Uh, having a, having someone help, moderate, or narrate that easy there onsite or not onsite. Um, you know, and obviously the offsite is just for like connectivity issues, kind of, if you, you. You know if you're in the boonies somewhere, but, um, Yeah. And then yeah, the audio. Problems with zoom and YouTube. So any other issues before we kind of start trying to solve some of these things, anything else that we're thinking of in terms of like, Rod. I had a backup ready to go for Sunday. All the login information. You know, ready if we couldn't get on, because I didn't want to take your signal. Um, I had someone ready to go for that. You know, I know this if you're onsite and I know they looked really cheesy and I should be working the drive-through someplace, but those that little USB headset microphone unit I was, I had on. On Sunday. Um, was great. I mean, I couldn't have, because otherwise, if you're trying to do sound on your laptop and you're up like this, trying to hear people and you're outside. There's no way I could have done it. And it worked out really well for them. And I was still able to. Um, play music from my computer forum. So they had music and things to do. I showed the, uh, the videos. So just something like that. I mean, they used to be really inexpensive with. Everybody home now they're a little they're on. But a hundred bucks, but a way better than I think, you know, Ear, you know, uh, earbuds and, and that sorta microphone. Cause it just, it just didn't seem the same for whatever reason. And other other issues before we started trying to solve some of these. Yeah. No, that's good. I know, I think too, like Greg said, having the, um, Having someone there's just so much downtime. And I think that's what people don't like get, and they go cause like for R R when we do like the live streams, let's say the ceremonies at five and I go, okay, well, let's. Well, we'll start at at, you know, five 55 to 85. So people can kind of make sure the audio is work and you know, that they're hearing, you know, not that the audio onsite, but the date yet, but they got their speakers on. They got whatever. You know, and I'll try to write in there, like, okay, you should be hearing background noise if there's no music playing yet because people y'all there's no music. Let's go. You know, there's all these kids, it's like a panic, right? I think people, you know, technology and zoom and everything. And so you kind of almost like assume it's not going to work. And so you log in right. If you're someone and you're trying to watch a zoom wedding in your life. Oh, my God. It's of course it's not working. Like, of course. And so, you know, we're trying to figure out. But having someone in, whether it's it's text. You know, writing in the thing or like Greg had with the microphone. Talking people through what is going on. Like I get, I try to do that. And then it stopped because like I said, I'm trying to make sure, you know, cause I'm at the same time that. People are logging on and trying to figure it out. Right. I'm trying to make sure everything's connected, but I'm trying to write in there, like, okay, you're a 10 minutes ago or five minutes ago. And I remember. I'm sending it. And again, it's a Memorial not to make light of it, but we're there. And I'm trying to write in, cause I, Greg handling the audio and someone writes in there, like nothing's happening yet? It's one Oh three. And it's like, Okay, Kathy, like we're, we're, we're, we're getting there, you know, like we're either, but you know, because people are on their computers. You're not, you're not there. You don't know what's going on. So I think definitely having someone. They're uh, you know, Desi. Is in charge of that. That is someone that's not like your brother that's going to be in the wedding or someone that's walking, you know, someone that's like, that's the boyfriend of your bridesmaid. That's not in the wedding party or somebody that's going to be there. That's not right. Am I kind of thinking through that? Do you agree with that? Uh, yeah, absolutely. I don't have much. To add to it. Um, Yeah, not emotionally connected as, as much. Um, and then, you know, obviously for the audio levels, um, so. It'd be how to DJ. That's great. If they can afford that. Um, is it, is it something where you guys feel, and I don't know, pricing for DJs like I do obviously for video. Is that something that's attainable? If I'm going to get married and I'm going to have a zoom wedding, is that like, Can I afford that it's for someone to come to you that, I mean, how does that look? And you guys can speak, please speak for yourselves, but then maybe just kind of reputable people in general. What is that? Is that something that's attainable to me? If I want to have like the zoom ID to my dreams. Well, I think part of it goes back to. W what, what do you want to have, right. Like for many couples now, this is just such a disappointing year, right? They had this vision of a certain wedding with a certain number of people and that vision came crumbling down. Right. So now they have a maximum of 30 people. And or. They. They potentially go to 20, 21 or something like that. But if you, um, If you embrace what you have, if you embrace the 30 people here and the whatever online, um, You might have to spend some money, but you've saved a lot of money in catering, presumably. Um, And I think for the service that we're describing, most DJs were charged significantly less. Than what they were charged for a full-blown wedding, with a reception and all sorts of additional sound equipment and all sorts of additional planning. And such, so. I think so it's at least worth a couple exploring and, and, and talking to some folks and saying, what would you offer me? What would you be able to do? How would you enhance my experience and my guest experience? Yeah. And now that receptions are our legal and still within the numbers and stuff, I think it's even more so. And if you really think about it, You're. Especially on hiring us or other DJs and things. You actually getting a pretty good value. You would probably have hired us anyway to do the ceremony. And reception things. So. Us tying in the video, just like we, you know, if we, if you were there read, we would give you a line from our board and do the microphones. We're not charging to do that. I don't know anyone who does, maybe someone does, but so you're actually getting. You know, the good sound for your zoom. Like my one, I'm doing one on Saturday ceremony only. And I talked to him again this week and I said, Hey, are we going to, we're going to do any zoom. And they're not. And I was kinda surprised. You know, and, and so I was prepared to facilitate that in any way that, you know, using what we've talked about or other resources. Um, it's not their thing, so that's cool. And, but. There's no money, you know, they're, they're not paying any extra for that. So, so if it's something for those other a hundred people. That are not onsite. That's. That's a pretty good bang for your buck. I would also say that given, uh, how most DJs are not full in terms of their calendars and their daily schedules right now. Um, I think many DJs would come to the rehearsal too. And if you want to try and run through everything and have that peace of mind, that it's all gonna work. Ask. And see if your potential DJ. We'll do that. That's a good point. Somebody I hadn't really thought about until I think Alan mentioned doing some, you know, the teacher. So the lie or whatever, I mean, is that something that, and I know Greg obviously like willing to work with people too. Is that something that you guys. If let's say you got booked for a wedding, you know, in like three weeks and they go, Hey, we gotta do this. You know, we need, would you like recommend that as something to do? I don't even know. I'm doing some of those, like, uh, we, would you feel like you have the time to, to like, do that while setting up and stuff to kind of do those sorts of things? Or is that like an extra charge or how did that work? I just got a thought of that. Sorry, this boot that on you guys. I think that. It all starts with just, uh, A big, comprehensive discussion with the couple about what they want. And that's just like a normal wedding plan where you just start with a blank slate and say, what do you want it to be? Like, what do you want to do? What do you want to skip? What's your vision. In this case. Some of the live streams are going to be just the ceremony. And some of the live streams are going to be the ceremony and maybe some of the other things. Right. Maybe topes, maybe first dance and maybe you. Move the schedules around so that some of those things are combined. I feel like in 2020, what we have learned is that. For most people about an hour zoom. Is there an upper limit? Uh, you know, at the beginning and in March and April, I think we were, a lot of us were on two and three hours. Zoom calls. And it just got to be too much. So I think even if you love a couple. It's a long commitment. There's been three hours staring at a computer screen. So you want to talk to you a couple about what they want you. Maybe you live stream the ceremony. But you record the rest of the stuff. Um, maybe you record the whole day. And then soon thereafter. You would try to play back. 45 minutes and you have a chat room with the couple and, you know, the couple, maybe even still dresses up in their, uh, in their outfit or something like that. So there's all sorts of different ways that people might approach this. But once you roll that, yeah. Then you throw in your own. Entertainment skills and you offer, well here, we've got, uh, we've got some dead time. You know, here's how I would approach that. And here's how I might. Try and help you with that. I think that's a great idea, Allen, and, and you're right about the time limits and stuff. One thing. I think that would be fun to do. Um, If, if you let's say you get the hour, so, so you kind of invite people to come in, you know, not the half an hour before the ceremony starts, like, guess what onsite? But. You know, five minutes before the ceremony starts or something to that effect. Um, or better yet start the ceremony at five minutes after the hour, and then go live at the top of the hour. Do the ceremony. Maybe you do a couple of, instead of going, you know, we can't really do cocktail hours now. So maybe we go to some activities during that transition, uh, either in locations or in the room. But one thing that I think would be really fun and you'd have to. Probably do it from their phones, but what if the. The couple. One or both of them. Um, Actually called into the call and a zoom. And surprise people or, or schedule a time to come in and they're on their phones going, Hey, hello. And the reason I said is, I don't think I'd want him to come sit on my laptop and do it just, just from a safety and this end of things and stuff. But if they did it from their own phones, I mean how cool that would be for the people at home. Thank you guys for being here. You know, they could almost do their thank you stuff. Now, whether you incorporate it in with the rest of the guests that are in person or they just do it. You know, separate. Wouldn't matter, whatever they want to do. Um, there would be. To have everybody there. See it live. You'd have to have a TV or a projector or something. I like that. But anyway, that'd be kind of fun. I think that's the next evolution. I think more, two way stuff. Um, yeah. Where the couple is getting involved with the guests. And like you say, it could require a big screen TV, but you know what? People can provide big screen TVs. They hook up their computers, so you could figure out a way to make all that work. And I think that makes it much more rewarding for the guests who are just sitting there. You know, being entertained. If you get to talk to the couple, how cool is that? Or a follow me drone for the whole day. It is. It's tough though, when you start getting the two-way staff and, and it really is. And like that the call I had yesterday with the zoom thing. And cause they were trying to do that, like some sort of the cooking class and they wanted the interactivity where, you know, you're like the chefs like even stalls cooking. Right. And then people are watching or whatever and, um, I sent you, uh, when did you get the two way? It's a lot harder. I don't disagree that that's like how it's going to get to be maybe, but then you really are. I don't know. I think if you're broadcasting the one way, you know, you can do, like, we use YouTube, Facebook, Twitch, Periscope, whatever. But then when it's that two way, it's like Microsoft teams or zoom. I mean, there's just not a lot of. Like options there for. Just getting that, that too. One thing I wanted to mention when Al was talking about, um, someday Rosie came in and was having a conniption wanted dinner. Uh, we, we only did one this year and I really was surprised that we didn't do more of, um, I had a couple back in like April when all this came down. And they called and they called it like a wedding quilt video is what they call that. So we went and they got married, just, it was no photographer event. It was just them, uh, her, her daughters, and then me and we just got. Like on a Thursday morning down at Lake wilderness and we got some, you know, some footage of him walk in and the ceremony and whatever. And then, uh, they each went home and did, um, zoom recordings with the, they have letters and they had written for each other and we got a bunch of family toast and staff because all these people can obviously make it, uh, you know, San and I made like a Dropbox link and people recorded. Uh, you know, audio messages like you guys get facilitate and, you know, uh, video messages and photos and things. And then I put everything together and then like Al was saying, you know, we scheduled a time. Cause they, they were originally going to get married on eight, eight. That that was going to be their day. And so we did all this and had it ready to go. And then I hosted a zoom call on eight, eight. And what was great about it was. You know, you never could have done that live or whether it's been a nightmare. Trying to coordinate all this. Yeah. Get 18 people or whatever, we could make a zoom thing. Um, I facilitated because I wasn't busy trying to live stream a million different things and I could, you know, I could walk him, everybody, like you guys would write and say like, Yeah, thanks for being here. This is what we're going to do. And then we played the video and they had never seen it. Nobody had ever seen it, but it was cool. Cause like you guys said you had done, they got to experience all of that all together and then they could talk. Right. Cause it afterward. I just laugh. Like I just left the zoom call. I hope, you know, I said, I'll be back in like an hour, so then make it still all talk and facilitate all that. But. You know, not, I know it wasn't like the whatever alive thing and I'm the videographer that's trying to pitch the live stream, but it's something that was almost the same, but like one 10th is hard as it would have been to try to coordinate all that live. I think it was a cool, um, Dang. I'm just surprised that more people didn't do that this year. I really was like, Oh, I bet a lot of people are gonna want to do this. And I was wrong. And I would say there's a whole group of people who are choosing to do sort of a small thing now. And a party and 2021. Right. And having some professionals at. The event that they have the ceremony this year can make next year's event much better too. Like in my case, um, I would certainly record the ceremony for a couple from the sound board. And if they've got somebody who's running video. You could make a, an emotional ceremony recap that you could play next summer. And the reception and it would be a perfect intro. Maybe right before their grand entrance or sometime, uh, at dinner or before their first dance or something like that, that helps next year's guest. Connect with the love that was at the ceremony this year. It'll be interesting with that too, because we've done those for years where people have gone to Hawaii or Mexico or whatever, and gotten married. And then usually within a couple of months, they come back. I'll be honest. Most of those parties of the disappointments. Um, in, in. You know, they really just think they're going to be Rangers. And I think next year is going to be the exception to the rule. So don't get me wrong, but you know, they come out and we show the wedding video from Maui and people come out and there's just. What I always kind of related it to is you don't have that nervous energy. Being led out like you do at a, at a typical ceremony and reception. And. I don't know. So they're there. And even if they're in their dress and they're doing their best. I mean, they've been fun. Don't get me wrong and, and people enjoy it, but it hasn't been one of those where. You know, I could have played a polka and they'd all ran out there and thought it was the best song ever, you know? Aye. Interesting perspective. I don't think I you're agreed, disagreed about, I think this whole doing the 50, 50 thing. I don't think it's gonna work. I think it's going to be, like you said, Greg, you know, with, with the Maori thing that this thing happened, I really don't and I have couples that are doing it. Our friends are doing it. I'm not saying that I don't want it to, I wanted, you know, I don't want to be right. But I do. I think it's going to be, you've been married now. We're going to be 16 months later, whatever the heck. And are you in your dress again? Did you guys have kids already? Are you trying to have, get better? I mean, I'm just, you know, it's all this like, I just don't think, I mean, that's fine, but like, even as like a, and this is to like opt the live stream thing in general, but I'm like, what does that even look like from like a storytelling videographer photographer? I mean, this is not even a last year. And discussion that's my, but what does that even look like? Well, So a year ago we got mad. I'm married and everybody was in mass and now we're here today. And. She's not wearing her wedding dress and they're not doing DAS and he's already seen her or they've already seen each other with it. I don't know. I mean, I. Well, let's bring it full circle then because, so we do the ceremony this year, or we've done it already. Okay. They, they live streaming. So let's say they're going to do the rest of this year. Whether they do or don't have a small raise, uh, reception or not, but let's say it's like my couple, this week. Ceremony only, uh, I think then you go out to dinner afterwards and stuff. Let's say a year from now, they want to do something. So. How do we, as, as professionals. Bring that full circle around. To bring that emotion to make it. And next year will be the exception to all the rules. Both good, bad and indifferent. I tell them to buy a house. No, I don't sell real estate. I think, I think, um, yeah. [unknown] record the audio and you had a professional or not. I think you need to have that. Or, you know, then you could have aunt Sally or whatever with a cell phone, if you have that audio and then you could even have the photos from your wedding. Right. I mean, if you're trying to make it be a thing, like Alan said earlier with the zoom calls, the video can cut out, but you still need that audio and you could, you could take. Um, you know, like I just had a wedding with a latte on Saturday and like, if I let you know if they had it. They've had the audio. And then you could just put that with the photos and it would be, you could sell at least get that, even if you weren't trying to have, but then you gotta have a DJ there or a videographer, you know? So read if a couple came to you this winter. And you didn't do anything at their original ceremony. And they've got some cell phone videos, some zoom call, some stuff like that. Is that something you could work with and make a good video for them? Yeah, we would, yeah, we would entertain that and trying to figure it out. I mean, I just had someone yesterday and they had had some, some old wedding. On a DVD or something, they were still trying to get edited. So, yeah, I mean, we do, you know, as long as obviously you wouldn't want to take anyone else's I can videographers work and then. You know, without them being able to be on that, but yeah. Okay. Cause. The other film vertically. Yeah. Did you take the sides of it like they do on the news and, and make it all. Fuzzy. I've done that. And then it's weird you do that. And some clients are like, I don't like that. Like, yeah. You know, like that's kind of what you're supposed to do. Um, Back to the lab. Thing is if I'm not there. And you guys are trying to live share your, if you got a couple, they go, it's our dream. You know, next Saturday, we're having a zoom wedding. How, um, well, I guess let's say. Well, we're trying to brainstorm. If we aren't there, how do they get the audio? Cause if, if, if you're there, then they do the audio, they have a friend do the things we've got that right. They can put a, they can do a zoom call. You guys can punch in the audio. Okay, but let's say we're not there. Yeah, so let's take it one step further. So if none of us who were there. And you want to have the best, Alan. I see you thinking you want to have the best live sharing you can have with no professionals there at all. I'm thinking bill Herman. I don't know what that is. Alan does. Yeah, but I'm not sure I get the relevance. Do you want to go ahead and I'll tell you when you're done. Um, so you still have to have the equipment. You have to have some microphones. Right. Like, and you probably have to have the speaker. So. You know, and, and you, uh, a couple could rent. Microphones a couple could rent a PA system. Uh, if I was recommending just the most basic economical way to do it, um, I would probably get microphones for everybody. Who's going to be speaking at any time. Either a lot of the lapel. Uh, or the handhelds. And. Um, I think reads. Saying why it tells her better. But yeah, I mean, I here's. Yeah. Well you continue and then I'll ask my question. Sorry. Um, And. If you need to just send that to a speaker. That's okay. Uh, it's the, it's not the best thing a good DJ would have a mixer in there to pull in all the channels. Hold on the music, but if you've got to send those mics just speaker that's. Okay. Um, if you have some technology experience, You could take the sound from the speaker through a cord and put that in your phone or your tablet or your laptop. Uh, option too. If that seems too much is to make sure that your phone or your tablet or your laptop is near that speaker. Because we were talking about before, how sound you can't pick that up from 40 feet, but if your speaker is right here and your phone is right here, You're you're going to do better. As long as, as long as the sound is coming out of the speaker. Okay. Yeah, it kills me. How, how much it kills me. How many times I asked you this in couples don't get, what does it cost to rent is a guitar center. What does it cost to run a microphone in it? Speaker for a day for a wedding. A hundred, 150 bucks. I mean, cause. I talk with them all the time. Cause I say, even, even if we're not live streaming, like we had one last week. You know, we just, they just wanted the video. They didn't want to live stream at, which is fine. You know, I have suffered recording Mike's, you know, we clip them on and I always tell him, I go, this is no amplification at all. None of you know, this doesn't help any of your gas. If it was me, I would rent. You know, a thing. Oh, you know, we don't need that. Well, and we were at, um, Chateau Lil, and even you would think, I shall tell Lil, you know, this serene meadow it's beautiful venue. You still have all that high. The freeway noise. We had goats go in, we have all this I'm like, you couldn't hear anything. Right. And there was. 10 people in the audience, 12 people. Right. And I mean, you know, and my, my EXROP, so I'm fine for later. But I'm like, man for 150 bucks or whatever to get that. And, you know, obviously, you know, getting power or whatever, but yeah, I mean, I would say you're trying to do it and then you could do a phone. Then you could have a phone up there. You know, set it on the chair or something, at least if you add some audio coming at ya, right. There's power on the tree, on the back, right of that at poet. At Chateau. Alan's gone up. Did you break? Did you bring us around? Okay. I just, I wanted to show you. Um, this is something you can buy, uh, for your phone. You put the phone right in here, and then you can put this on a tripod. So you can get a fairly steady shot. This was 20 bucks at Glazer's. Yeah. Yeah, Amazon. I have a similar one. That's more plasticky and stuff. Um, so I'll go one last version of what you guys are talking and, and, and I'll qualify this. Or as a DUI is a, is a, is a DIY sort of thing. If. You're going to be in a place where 30 guests could here. You and the officiant talking. So this is no amplification onsite. So if you're in a small room, I mean, You know, with social distancing, 30 people spread out is actually kind of a bigger area. But if you can be in a place where. Everybody can hear people talk normally from front to back and you don't need amplification, but you want to do the zoom. So if you have Allen's clip that he just showed us and you have person, you know, videotaping. Thank you. Uh, from the second row or something like that. And if you want to do audio for about. You know, probably 60 or $70, you can get a Lavallee or microphone. Do you want to get one that's omni-directional off of Amazon. Rode R O D E is a good brand. And that's where the bill Herman comes in because our friend bill does walks every day. And he's out in the snow and the rain and in the middle of nowhere in, um, [unknown]. In Minnesota. And you get to hear him. I mean, you hear the road noise, but you hear him really well. And he just has a nice little road Lavallee or clipped on his chest and his phone on a selfie stick, walking around. And. Yeah, I'm probably, he's been doing this like 500 days in a row and he sounds great every day. So if the, if the efficient had that clipped on, had his cell phone in his pocket and was on that same zoom call, like we were talking about earlier and someone else was shooting video. And you played with the mute button is just, you know, muted, everything else and left him live. You could get some Omni, directional sound. From him from the, from the couple. And. It would sound good. Now, if you get one, that's not Omni directional, it's just, it's going to be like, Alan's your budget has gone on right now. You're going to just hear him really well. So well, and that's what I think people need to get is when it comes to this audio stat. And I think that people don't realize how quiet. They talk how loud the world is, especially when you're. You know, I've had, um, even where I've got, you know, we usually clip it on like the officiant. And then the groom normally just cause that you have a jacket, whatever. I mean, you can, Mike brides, it's a lot more work. They make like white microphone cables for that sort of thing. But like, I just don't think people realize how quiet it is, how loud the world is. You know, we've had people so quiet and they're, you know, partner, whatever is three feet away. And it still cause, cause those microphones pick up. Everything. And that's what people, you know, takers take your laptop. Set it on a desk and then go walk 10 feet back and try to do a zoom call with someone and see if they can hear you. And the problem is. You know that zoom call there. It just tries to like boost all that audio up. And so you get everything with it. It just ends up being this whole noise cloud kind of thing, if you can visualize that. So I think. Like we said, if you're trying to do it. Be realistic and try to test it out ahead of time. I go in your backyard, take your laptop or your iPad, whatever. Go stand and try to talk to your partner, you know, 10, 15 feet away. And see if you can hear it, take your phone, take your phone and hit the record button on it. Don't even mess with zoom. Just take your phone. Here record, go walk 10 feet away and see if your phone can hear you and it can, or they'll hear you and it'll hear everything else in the world with it, you know, and they'll hear the dog barking, you know, down the street. But, I mean, people just don't get how that the audio works. Right. And the, how. Worry about it. We'll think about what you do when you're talking to your mom. And then you want to put the phone down, you know, And so they can't hear it. Sometimes you hold it to your chest, but you can practically just so you can't see my phone and cracked and really just turn it. And it cuts it. You know, more than half are we all have that friend who's. You know, talks with their hands and you're trying to pick them up. So there's options and there's it. Like with everything, it comes down to what Alan keeps saying. What's important to you and having that discussion. And. Going and working backwards to that. And then how many people are gonna be there and live and how many people are going to be. You know, over the air and, and, and if you're going to have. 2034. I mean, this one I did that. I was a guest. There's 40 people on from around the world. And here's another cool thing. If I could have moderated that one. You'll have well, shoot. I bet you only a quarter of. You know, most people only knew. 10 people on the call. And so how cool would have been to come in 15 minutes early and make introductions? Hey, tell us about it. How do you know him? You know, cause there was people from, from New Jersey. I had no idea that I assume they were the grooms. Family, but I didn't know that. And, um, I mean, that would have been. You know, we could have had our own little party on zoom. So that's a great, I think that's a great idea and making it, you know, do, do the ice breakers that way. I think that's great. And yeah. Yeah, big, like we were talking earlier. I mean, games and suffer fine too, but just that just how do you know? And you can record all that stuff. Zoom will let you record that. I assume. I'll let you do that. Right. And just, I think that's a great idea. And it could add to the party and, you know, they don't have to stick around. And if the bride and groom do a drive by later and say, hi, great. But if they don't. You know, I just, I'm thinking on this call. Was the bride's grandma who I know really well. And I know she didn't know over half the people on there. You know, and it would've just been so cool to, to not just for me, but you know, she's not related to these well, some of these folks. And so it would've been really cool to facilitate that. And, you know, people are older. Nobody's going to be traveling for a while, especially if you're older and stuff. And. Um, so I guess there's possibilities and I think that's cool. I mean, if we had this conversation a year ago, We wouldn't have this many conversations. I mean, trying to explain to grandma and a zoom call is. I will say. Um, and Greg, you guys always bugging you guys always asking you what's important to the couple, right? What's important to your day. I will say. And even that one on Tuesday that we did out in the middle of nowhere and the bride knew that ahead of time, she said, Hey, I don't even know if this is a possibility. You know, obviously you're going to record it and then do your best right lives if it glitches and all that's okay. We just, we're going to try to do it. And then you recorded for later. Cause obviously that's the other question. I think a lot of people, you know, you do, if you have a professional or someone that knows how to do it, You will have that recorded for later. I mean, zoom will do it if you like the one that Greg and I did on Sunday, we both had it going the records just because 20. Good thing we did. Well, yeah, because my mind kept, kept kicking me out. No, absolutely. That's actually, you're. On two different internet sources too. So we were both laptops next year. That is true. Laptops next to each other. I was on their wifi. And you were on a hotspot, right? I was on you on ether net. I was on one floor. And yeah, mine kept kicking me out, kicking me out. And so I, my, the record, but it missed a lot of it, you know, it would miss like the five minutes. So yes, that's a great point. But, um, You know, Whether it's an eye. This is a terrible thing, but whether it's not, it's important that a couple, and I absolutely value that the weddings, the EMEA. The memorials, we'd done a bunch of memorials now to the ones that we stream, where people really make an effort. It's so appreciated by the people that can't be there. It's so appreciated. And even that one on Tuesday, even though glitched out a little bit, They just, they all wrote in there, like, thank you so much. Like everybody for, you know, me going out there and setting up all this crap by the side of the Lake, you know, the couple of paying me to do that. Everyone going out there and doing that, you know, them trying to make the effort, work with everything. People really appreciate that. And they really are bummed out that they can't be there. And so. Megan that effort I think is, is a really big thing for people. And especially honestly, like if you're inviting people or you had to cancel, or I don't know how registries and all that are working anymore, we're trying, you know, wedding registries and all that. But. Going through those efforts to make people feel like they're included, I think are really underrated. Just how much people appreciate couples, you know, putting that work in. So that's my 2 cents. I, I agree. Heck nowadays, everybody's working at home. Maybe your, your work will, uh, let you expense allowed to let her microphone. You can use it for your wedding. It's for business use. Um, this has been great. Anything else? Uh, I don't want to keep hammering the same point. At home, but I want to make sure we got anything else. You guys, any ideas that you guys wanted to talk about today? You know, I'd say just, don't be afraid of the technology, you know? And, and, and, and also don't put it on yourself for the day of you have to delegate. And that's why I suggested, even though I was onsite. For the Memorial service, I had a backup ready to go offsite. I think if you can do that. If anything, you know, even if we test it and there's, you know, five people. We get there the day of, and there's 30 and everybody's online, you know, that's going to affect your affect your bandwidth. So try to delegate it out. And, and just. Think about those people that can't be there. Like you were just saying. I think it. Even if you're hesitant, I think you should just do it. And, and it, and it, sometimes it's better to. To do it, but, but you can very little. Expense and effort, you can make it so exceptional. And I, and I think that's what we should do or hire and hire a professional. If you can do that. Alan anything. I mean to me, one of the great things. About a wedding is the community that comes together for that day. Right? It's it's your work people. It's your family. It's your. Friends from back in other areas of your life. And so the technology exists too. Keep that. That group still coming together. And I think ultimately that's pretty rewarding. I mean, people are not going to get to have the weddings that they originally envisioned. But. You can still have a wedding that brings the people together. And so I think the best strategy is to. Talk about it to some people who are in on the technology, figure out what you want to do, what your capabilities are. Uh, and then enjoy it. Yeah. And then even, um, I think just what, we've one thing I've learned this year, and I think you guys agree with, you know, having all these. Recordings of all this stuff. And might that open house, the Memorial that we did, some of that stuff right now is just an invaluable. And maybe we took it for granted a year ago or whatever, but like, You know, where, where you moderated that open house and having, just being able to record the stories that people are having, you know, about, you know, um, the client, whatever the, you know, passed away. Um, just having all that stuff, Sade and being able to do that and, you know, having people at your wedding and like you said, having someone be able to introduce people and share stories. Yeah. How do you know him? And even if it's not the best quality video, audio, having all that there, I think it's so cool. I mean, if anything, I think that's the best idea that came out at today is if you're gonna do a zoom call, have someone that's on their record it and run like you guys did run like an MC thing and try to talk and get some stories and stuff. Ahead of time because otherwise it's, it's boring and people are impatient and ready to go. And how cool would it be if there, even if there was only 10 people that watch your wedding and they all got to share 30 seconds about how they got yeah. And how that recorded. I think that that would be a really cool idea. So I think that's that's if nothing else, I think that's a great thing that came out of two that so absolutely. Uh, thank you guys so much for coming on. Uh, why don't you. You read. Eyes any last mentioned plugs anything before we go, Greg, we'll start. And then as always, we give Alan the last word. Uh, Greg louder affairs to remember entertainment, uh, DJ seattle.com. Um, and I'll just put it out there. If anybody has questions about this or wants to just discuss it, call or email me, I'd be happy to go through, share my experiences. We've kind of shared a lot of them today. But I would be happy to, and, and I'm available. You know, I can virtually moderate these two. I mean, Don't have to be in the same city. I mean, if people want. I quality MC to come in and, and, and, you know, have fun with their guests while they're getting married. Happy to do that. Awesome. Well, I'm glad that we're done because I've got to get to a podcasts on Apple iTunes and listen to XFL Mark cast. And then I've got to post my rift five star review. It's the best XFL podcast ever. Thank you, Allen. [unknown] if you're XFL football fan, are you. You just want some random shenanigans with me not being professional for a change, you could go over it. The XFL show.com. Ah, no, but I mean this, and before we go, I think if you guys who knows or other DJs, but putting together some sort of virtual MC thing, I don't think as a terrible idea and figuring that out. But I do, I think recording the stories in those messages, I think are cool and, um, Just, uh, you know, try to make the best. I think this podcast has always been trying to make the best of everything right now and embracing what we have and think like, don't think, okay, well, I'm only going to be able to have 30 people in my wedding. I think I could have more people watching my wedding. They would probably ever be able that I could ever invite. Right. And so I think they just tried to look at the positives, I think would be really cool. So. Thank you guys. Again, this has been another episode of the best made weddings. Uh, if you have a question for the upcoming episode, you can go to bestmadevideos.com/survey. And thank you guys so much again at Greg was just on our Get to Know Your Wedding Pro podcast and Alan was a guest on episode 2. Thanks again for stopping by you guys and stay safe.

Episode 16 - Talkin’ Sweets!

Well, thank you guys so much for joining us today. I know it's busy. You guys are getting ready to open up the bakery today. I know you guys work together regularly, so that's why we're doing this kind of a two for one deal. I think I'm going to call this episode talking sweets, and I figured that I'd get two of the sweetest bakers. I know they're come on the, uh, the Best Made Weddings podcast. Why don't you guys introduce yourselves and tell us who you are and what you do. Okay. I'm Kayla I'm from Seatown Sweets and I do custom desserts and treats I'm Holly I'm from Hollywood Baked Goods also do custom desserts as well. Awesome. And just before we get started, I don't want to waste too much time. Uh, I mentioned the last time on the podcast or ratethispodcast.com/weddings. Uh, we're just right at the top. If you guys like and support what we do, uh, ratethispodcast.com/weddings is a great way to leave a review on the podcast platform of your choice. Thank you guys so much for coming on today. How has everything been? I know it's been crazy with weddings and events and everything. The last, uh, you know, months, how's it been going for? You guys It's been great. Um, we were fortunate that we never had to close our business because we are like a restaurant. So, um, we just kind of had to pivot back in March when everything was going down, we lost a lot of like our corporate business and obviously weddings were kind of going crazy. So we just shifted a little bit. And, um, we got on like rip hop, Uber eats and doing like delivering contact with delivering things like that. Um, just to kind of supplement the business and then we opened up the storefronts and people could walk in and pick up treats or pull up to the curb and we could take them out to them. So, yeah. Oh, it's too busy for you. Oh yes. It's been busy as well. I mean, both of us have been fortunate to grow during this time. Um, again, it's been in like a different way. We've kind of gone from like a corporate kind of larger scale, uh, catering to more like individuals sales of people, like coming into the store, which is great. Cause it kind of brings in a whole new clientele and also I'm pivoting off of what Kayla said. Just being really smart about the products that we're offering. Um, when we first, um, like back in March when Kobe really started to like get serious and things started shutting down, we were like, okay, kids aren't in school. Um, people still want traits. And so we kind of brainstorm with kids like decorating kits you could do at home. Obviously Kayla's like the sugar cookie queen. So doing kits for sugar cookies was really, really popular. I did a couple big ones as well that were also popular. Definitely not as popular as Kayla's cause sugar cookies. That's just like what you decorate. It totally makes sense to do, but just being smart and kind of pivoting and thinking outside the box in terms of stuff that we would normally do that like worked with our clientele, it ended up being really, really successful. So we're working it for that. Yeah. That's great. And so we kind of do this podcast now and that you guys have both been on the, get to know your wedding pro. This is kind of our wedding planning branch that we started kind of during COVID, uh, trying to figure out we really produce this kind of week to week just because I got bitten the butt early on with all the regulations and trying to plan everything out. And now obviously this happened again and last night kind of Ensley opened up receptions, you know, to 30 people kind of limited whatever, which is great. But the idea behind bringing you guys on this week was to talk about, I was at a wedding on Sunday and they wanted to send everybody home with, you know, uh, like a tree, you know, they couldn't do a reception. And so they did like a ceremony and then cut a cake. I kind of like as part of the ceremony and then send everybody home. And so I wanted to kind of figure out some other alternative ideas, you know, with receptions kind of looking crazy right now and where you guys do a lot of to go stuff, uh, just using your expertise to kind of talk about some other options and things that people can utilize, um, you know, for their weddings, you know, or limited receptions kinda, you know, what's going on right now. Does that make sense? Yeah. So actually, um, was helping Rebecca Grant with the w S w E a kind of proposal to NZ for like the bakers. And, um, I contacted the department of health and talk to their COVID units specifically because, you know, yes, we're food, but we are different, you know, and it's like, the cake is kind of like a ceremonial thing and just wanted to see like what the rules and regulations would be around that. And based on my conversation with that person, this was like a couple months ago. So maybe like July or maybe even June, but the food has never really been the issue with COBIT. It's always the people in the handling of things. So, um, they were fine with, you know, having a cake set out on display. Um, they were okay with having even food kind of set out, but again, the main thing was just having someone there kind of Manning it, serving it to, um, the guests, another option was, um, they could have sort of, you know, everything displayed. So they get the couple gets those pretty pictures of their dessert table, but then they would have the catering staff kind of slice up the cake or kind of put together a little smorgasbord tray and take it to each table and say, this is what you get. So people didn't, they, they would still get a choice, but it was amongst their family. They could do kind of like an order style or, you know, the caterer, um, catering staff come up to the table and say, okay, who wants struggle cake, who wants to Nyla cake and kind of, you know, divvied out that way. Um, but unfortunately the wedding scene really got shut down before any of that was really possible. Um, the only wedding that I did was, um, act in, Oh gosh, July, I think when everything was still open. Right. And, um, they did cupcakes and yeah, they just sliced the cake and just kept it really, really simple. Um, I think some other ideas definitely the, to go thing was popular. Um, packaging up cupcakes individually. Um, so the couple they did their small ceremony and then as guests left, they just grabbed a cupcake to go sign the guest book and that was done. Um, yeah, Holly, I need any ideas, Honestly, a lot of the weddings that I've done, people have just come and picked up the treats and then they've gone on their Merry way. I know I had seen some talk about having like plexi glass in front of, um, the food as well as kind of like a barrier between the servers as well as like the individuals is kinda like an extra added layer of protection that I think Kayla pretty much hit all the marks. I mean, we're always, we've always done individually packed treats because I think that, you know, in a pandemic or not, they're always really appropriate for certain events. So I still think that's a really good option as well. Um, kind of like, you know, this is exactly like what you get, um, you know, and maybe it kind of takes the choice away a little bit, but I mean, we try to always encourage, you know, our brains that our groups to, to like, Hey, let us know if you have like vegan people, free people. So that way we can actually like a lot. So, I mean, there is some option of choice as well. Um, still, uh, even with handing out like individually treats. Yeah. It's funny. We talk about trying to limit the hands and stuff. We had a wedding and they had just like last weekend and they had a little dessert thing for guests coming and going, and it was just like these jars, like reach in and go. And I was like, this is like terrifying. This is like so bad either just for like, in terms of like safety and cleanliness. So now that, you know, receptions are kind of opening again, right. And we can have these limited, you know, I think it's three hours, 30 people or less walk me through if someone wanted to, like you were talking about having like these smorgasbord or different little options. Like if I'm someone that's planning the wedding now and I want to come to you guys, what would that look like? And some options and decisions and things like that. If, if that's what I wanted to do and wanted to do, you know, safely do some desserts for my guests. Oh yeah. I've had many conversations with this. Um, I was actually talking with a bride and she's getting married at Willow's lodge, um, in a couple of weeks here. And we've kind of had to, you know, scratch the ideas like left and right. But now that we're kind of in this home stretch. So, um, what we're doing is we're just doing a small cutting cake for the couple. And, um, guests are going to get a cupcake, which is going to be individually package. And then they're also going to get a cookie as like a favor, you know, cause they were going to have those on the tables for guests, but you can't do that. So, um, they're just going to have a small number of guests, kinda like come and say hi to them. Um, at a time again, kind of started a book and then grab a treat to go. Um, I'm not sure if that's gonna, I mean, I just had a conversation with her on Monday and now we're Thursday and everything's kind of changed again. So I don't know if that's going to change again. Um, that was their kind of plan. I think honestly, you know, the little mini desserts and stuff, which we've always done, um, are really gonna play a huge factor in weddings going forward. So we're fortunate that we're not just a cake vendor, you know, we're not making these big elaborate cakes where we'd have to then kind of figure out, okay, how do you slice it and package it? We've always done, you know, petite desserts and treats that are easily packageable again, there is some limitation with certain things like with buttercream sugar cookies, I can't always do like my beautiful, like three dimensional flowers, cause they would get squished, but there's options with that. So I've been trying to recommend with couples, let's have like at least some sort of cake option either, you know, like a cake pop or a cupcake, and then you could do like a favor, um, you know, like a cookie or something else, even like maybe hand pie, um, where guests can kind of take that to go. But I think that if we're not sitting down and eating dinner together, everything is still going to have to be, to go. What's been the hardest part for you guys. Has it been trying to navigate the regulations? Has it been trying to figure out, like you said, you know, things changing and keeping in communication with know couples and clients and you know, whether it could be, could be weddings or other just events and things. I mean, what's been the most challenging part of this all for you guys. You kind of like all of it really. Um, I think for me personally, a big part of it has just been the ethics of it as well, because you still have, which is shocking to me, but we've had people reach out to us and they're like, Hey, we're having a, you know, hundred person wedding and you know, my aunt's backyard and you know, as a company, uh, you have to think ethically about how you feel about that. Cause I mean, yeah, you can make treats for them and they get their treats and their go on their Merry way. Or you can say no, and they're probably gonna go to a different bakery and maybe they'll say no, but eventually I would imagine someone is going to say us. And then you kind of couple that in with the fact that, you know, businesses are still struggling to look at like the dollar amount of it you think, Oh, you know, that would be really nice because it's going to pay the rent this month. Um, or like ethically, it just doesn't feel right. So that's been kind of an interesting thing to be able to navigate like on an emotional moral level during this whole time. Um, as well as keeping up with like regulations. So we've been on normal, um, like video chats and phone conversations, hearing, you know, what other States are doing and how the regulations are going there. And if it's working, if it's not working. Um, but I think for me, like ethically, that's been probably one of the biggest challenges and you know, like with the mass mandates and some, you know, not wanting to do that because they're not like a, you know, an actual venue if like a wedding planner and, you know, I think for a wedding planners too, just having to not only be a wedding planner, but also kind of be like a regulator now it's, um, it's just challenging and like no one really signed up for this. And so it's just really, I feel like that's probably been like one of the biggest challenges, um, that I've seen for me. It's I mean that definitely, but the biggest challenge was, you know, I, so many weddings at the beginning of the year, I was talking with so many couples and everything just like hit a wall and rescheduling and communicating and rescheduling again. I mean my calendar and my books are a mess. Like it is such a mess. And literally this morning I got an email from a variety who canceled back in August and she said, her wedding is on it's for next Saturday. And I hope you can do it. And I'm like, Oh, okay, well, good thing. I'm not going anywhere. Um, yeah, I'll reinstate that invoice and we'll just go for it, you know, but so really right now it's just kinda flying by the seat of our pants, you know, just kind of being there for couples, um, over labor day weekend, which is traditionally a pretty busy weekend for me, just because you get that extra day for couples to get married on a Sunday and kind of get, you know, cheaper rates and stuff. But I looked at my calendar and I was like, Oh, all my weddings got canceled this weekend. Um, okay. The husband and I, we went out of town and on Saturday I got a notification that I had a wedding on Saturday, but it was canceled, but my heart dropped because I was like, Oh my God, like, this is, you don't know what day it is anymore. Like keeping track of things is the hardest thing right now. And I totally sympathize with all the wedding planners and event coordinators and venues. Cause it's just a mess trying to like help these couples and do everything that we can just support them and stay sane, you know, really kind of given us both an opportunity to let our customer service shine as well. Cause I mean, everything, it's just so crazy rhino. I mean the couples are struggling, you know, like we're struggling with like logistics and the emotion of it all. I mean, everyone is emotionally strained right now. And so I think that for us to be able to give just the extra level of like security, like no everything's going to be okay and just be extra flexible and to let them not stress about anything. Cause we all know that weddings can be stressful anyways. And especially a wedding during COVID is even more stressful. Cause it's super, like just chaotic and it's changing so rapidly. So it's been kind of neat too at the same time, being able to like give that extra level of customer service and our reassurance to people that like, Nope, everything's going to be okay. It might always be the most convenient, but that's okay because it's all gonna end up working out. Yeah. My accountant emailed me the other day and they were like, they call it like the aging accounts report or something like all these overdue. Cause I have all these balances that have gotten moved around and they're like, what is going on? Like why do you have, you know, 18 all of these ballots? Yeah. I'm like, well it's because you know, everything's got moved to next year, you know, whatever. Right. Trying to keep track of all the invoices. Have you guys, have you had to turn down weddings and events, you were talking about the ethics and hearing either guest counts and stuff. Have you guys had to do that? I haven't, no. I mean, it hasn't gotten to the point where I've been like, Oh, this really doesn't feel right. Um, and it's always about kind of feeling out the guests as well and seeing exactly how they're going to handle it. Um, especially if they're like been with a venue, you would imagine that the venue is doing their due diligence with what they should be doing. Um, but again, it's just kind of like individually filling out. But no, I haven't been directly. Are you guys encouraging people to do more pickup and then set up themselves or, you know, is that, I mean, I know that's kind of your business all anyway, but do you feel like that's the easiest way to kind of like provide your guys the services and then, and then you wrap everything and prepare everything and hand it off. Is that kinda how you guys have been doing it? It's like 50 50. Like someone's going to come pick up their wedding cake and desserts today for these Friday or Saturday that they're getting married. Um, it just depends what they're comfortable with. Cause I, you know, some people are still doing the small two tiered cakes so they can save their topper and eat it later and stuff. So it just depends if they're, if they feel comfortable handling that big cake, uh, or if they're just getting, you know yeah. Like a small cutting cake is no different than a birthday cake, you know, cupcakes, we can put it in boxes and bags and you know, beyond their way. So it's really just depends if they want to save that money and the delivery fee. It also depends like where it's going to, um, I've been very, you know, upfront with like delivery fees. People have reached out one weddings like Mount Vernon. I'm like, yeah, that's, you know, I can go to Skagit, but it's going to cost you money to do that. So, you know, it's a minimum and a cost and delivery, are you okay with that? And you know, that's up to them. I kind of put it back in their hands. Um, since most of the stuff is, you know, take away. Um, we're not doing a lot of like rentals with our stands and things. And my policy has always been like, if we're going to rent my stands, I have to come back and get them at the end of the night. So there's no loss or damage and it's just kind of an added service and benefit that I provide in my business. Um, but because we're not really doing that again, that's kind of gone by the wayside a little bit too. Um, so it's really just up to the couple what they feel comfortable with and yeah. Have you guys had to change a lot of your, I mean, obviously it's the cleanliness and sanitary when it comes to cooking and baking and stuff anyway, but if you guys had to rework any of your processes for actually, you know, um, creating all your desserts and everything's No, I mean we've, I mean food handling has always been the same thing. Um, I will say the struggle is real on trying to get gloves. So because the public is using gloves to protect themselves, which we have a natural skin barrier to do that, but people are buying up a lot of these gloves and it is nearly impossible to get them. So I will kind of say like, if you feel like you don't need to use them, please don't cause you're taking them away from people who do need them, like the health care workers and the food handling workers. Like we have to have these gloves. Um, so that's kinda my only gripe there. Um, but it's real. I mean, I think that, you know, I mean there was probably a three or four week stretch where we literally couldn't even find them. I mean, everywhere was sold. Cause I mean, we get a lot of the products still like Costco business, Costco, same, you know, places that other people go to and they were sold out. And even if you maybe could find them online, they were going for like seven, eight times the regular cost, like, you know, a box would normally be $4 and they were going for, you know, 25 and you're like, Oh my gosh, this is crazy. Um, so that's been one challenge. Um, so not so much with like the process of baking, but of course, cause now we have the storefront, you know, it's like you have to sanitize and because people are using like our square readers and although we have like contests contact lists so they can do Apple pay. So we ensure that that sanitized and just being a lot more hyper aware of that. Cause normally in the past, it's just primarily been Kayla and I here at the bakery. But now, you know, because we've had to change our business model, we've provided in like Uber drivers and the grub hub drivers, people picking up more. Um, so that's kind of been another like level of just extra care here within the store. Um, with that being said, one thing that's related to weddings that we haven't been doing is, uh, in-person wedding tastings. Um, which is interesting. Cause we've actually had, I know for me personally, I've had a handful of people, you know, want to come in and they want to have that hands on experience, which I totally understand, especially from an emotional standpoint, I mean, you know, it's just kind of getting taken away from, you know, like a bride and groom in that process and you know, that's part of the whole wedding process. So I totally am like empathetic to that, but at the same point, you know, we can't have people in our tasting room having a hundred touch points and you know, with like utensils and having them here for like long ended up here, like periods of time, it's just not a possibility. So what we've been doing, which I mean we've always done anyways, is to go boxes. Um, you know, I mean we try to make the leg as personal as possible and obviously the boxes are personalized for what they want. Um, but that's one thing that we've really changed and just telling people, it's like, Hey, we're really sorry. Like we're just not doing in person. Um, Casey right now. So, um, luckily everyone's responded. I feel like, well, and they all, they, they understand, but um, both the emotional aspect of it. See that's like something else, right. That I don't even think about or no one even thinks about this that, you know, it's just crazy how it's so specific to each vendor type all this different stuff. And who would ever think about, you know, except you guys, obviously an in person, you know, cake tastings and it's like, you know, that was on the, I never would have thought of that, you know, and something, but is like super important. I know that when Dorothy and I got married, that was super important to do the cake tasting and all of that. So yeah, It's the most fun part he made me get like free champagne and I mean, we built like this beautiful, it's where we are right now. We've built this beautiful tasting room and people come to the store like, Oh, what's that for? I'm like, well, it's kind of like a janitor's closet slash makeshift office right now. It's not a tasting room. So I'm like pre COVID that's what was, but kind of a laughing It's wild to go into places. We haven't gone out a lot. We went out to like Matador last night for dinner and we haven't gone in forever. And it's just so interesting to see how each different business type has like, you know, huge walls and spaces and things. And obviously where you guys have people come in and out too. It's just interesting to see how everyone's trying to follow the rules. Right. And it's all, but you're like, okay, I feel safe here. You know, it's, it's, you know, we did, um, I know we did a wedding earlier this year where they had kind of a seated dinner and they did, um, you know, they still wanted to cut the cake and then they provided the guests with, um, like the restaurant or whatever had separate like sheet cake or whatever that they brought out is that kind of stuff that you guys were like, if they're cutting a cake or whatever, and then you're trying to hand off stuff to other people. Is that something we worry about in terms of like, you know, um, spreading sickness and whatever? No, cause I mean, they should have one mask on and then also, uh, gloves. I mean, it's no different than going in a restaurant. You're a chef, you're working on the line and you have other people around you, you have like your sous chef, you have the person making salads, you know, like a big kitchen in the back. Um, I think with weddings just a little bit more transparent, but again, the issue is never with food transmission and that was made very clear by the department of health that if you were to contact, COVID like, say through food, your stomach acid is going to kill it. That's what I've been told. Um, so you know, to me, I don't feel at risk if people are going out and eating at restaurants, like the risk is more in contact with other people and not, But, but if like if the bride and groom didn't have a man, they cut a cake like a traditional cake cutting. And they're like on all that. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, I mean family's family, right. I don't know. You're there seeing them in person, you know, Point that's, that's kind of where you draw the line in terms of the households and everything When I'm yeah. Like the household thing. I get what you're saying. If they're cutting embassy. No, one's really cutting big cakes right now. And if people ask for, she could throw, I go, I need a sheet cake for 75 people. I mean automatically, I'm kind of like, like why so many people? And I know even places like Costco, I mean, they were notorious for doing, I think it was, I don't know if it was like the worst Xi cakes, but they were, they always had this like sheet cake that was in store and they actually, I think it was maybe a month and a half ago, they actually got rid of it. And I think part of it was to like stop promoting people. Cause it's like, why do you really need a large Calgary's why do you really kick to be like 30 people? Um, so I know that that's actually one thing that Costco has done. Um, but yeah, I mean, I was always interesting when people call them like, Oh, I need a cake to like feed 75 people. And again, it kind of your go, Oh, well, why I, why are you having that many people to feed? So it kind of pulls it like back in the whole, like ethics of it. Um, but mostly like people, I mean, that's going to be like your immediate family and some best friends, you know? So I assume, but how many friends do you have? Like seven I'm like, well, and that's with my dog. No, I'm just kidding. I haven't no, one's really raised the flag like, Oh no. One's really asked that question really about, um, yeah. Interesting. I mean, I always say what it's ever, whatever they're comfortable with, you know, what, what do you feel comfortable with? What would make your guests feel comfortable? So I don't think there's going to be like too many like distant cousins coming to weddings right now. You know? So there are like the high risk groups. I mean, unfortunately they just don't go. Um, but again, it's up to the couple's discretion. So, you know, we don't, it's not our job to police. Um, yeah, we're just here to bake stuff. So, But needless to say, so, you know, orders of large wedding cakes down right now, are you, but you're getting a lot more and we talk about the kinds of things you are fulfilling right now. And things that do seem popular right now with everything going on. I believe a small cakes, maybe like a six inch cake or an eight inch cake. Um, I mean, or we can do like a small, like two tiered cake. Where is that? Six inch cake and an eight inch cake. Second on top of each other. Uh, the one I did today or couples picking up as a six and a 10 inch cake stacks. So that technically serves 50, but they're like saving half of the cake for their one year. And they just wanted the look of a two tier cake, which I totally understand. It's kind of like, okay, if I can't have my dream wedding at least want a focal point wedding cake, you know, that everyone can kind of see, I did one with pink while some events a couple of weeks ago, that looked really, really pretty. And I agree it was very romantic and style, but most people are just kind of doing the easy stuff. The cupcakes cookies, I would say in a small cutting cake are probably my top things right now. Um, unfortunately all the couples that I've been working with, you know, at the beginning of the year, we had these, you know, large orders for, you know, 100, 200 plus people. And that's been just shaved down to like 10% of the invoice. And it's really sad cause it's hurting us as a business for sure. The business is still kind of there. It's just not what it used to be. How do you guys manage the invoices without his additional unfortunate thing? I mean, is it like catering where there's minimums? I mean, I have no idea. I've always been really flexible, uh, even before COBIT I was like, look, I'm going to put together a proposal. We don't know. Cause with, with desserts and catering, you don't know your exact number until you send out the invitations, right? So you expect 200 wedding. You're probably gonna be at like one 75, one 80. That's what I always tell my couples. Like that's probably where you're going to be. Um, but let's wait until maybe four to six weeks away from your wedding to confirm everything and then I'll collect payment then. Um, so luckily it didn't me in the butt too much this year with COVID and things getting canceled. Cause most people hadn't really paid. Um, if they want to put together a payment plan, let's say it's a really big wedding and the invoices, you know, pretty big one and they know they're going to be in this range, then I'll do like an installation of a payment plan. Um, but I've always been kind of flexible deposits. I mean, I don't know, like I just don't think they're gonna like go run away, you know, once, once they come in and taste and like we have a conversation, you know, and they choose me, they're probably not going to be like, Oh, nevermind, because they're just like check done. You know? So yeah. I mean, again, weddings are already stressful and we've tried to make it as easy as possible. So I'm just saying, and I mean, same thing, you know, we've had, I have a wedding, um, at Lord Hill farms this weekend and originally, um, I think the estimate for the wedding was like $1,300. This is gonna be like full dessert, spread 150 people. And I think that there may be down to, I think it was like 2030 and the final bill cause they were going to totally get rid of the desserts anyways. And I really, you know, trying to encourage them, like, you know, it would be nice to at least have a little something, even if it's a cake for just you guys. Um, and I think the final ticket was like $175. Uh, and you know, it's just like, it is what it is. I mean, no one really asks for this. So, um, you know, say I think being flexible with them and just not pausing more habit to their life, um, already, I mean, life is hard right now. Like I don't, I don't want to contribute to that. So I just, I did have some couples, they were like really gung ho about like, Nope, we're gonna get everything paid. You know, this was before Kobe, like, okay, we're going to book you, we're going to everything pay. We just want it done. And they did that and it did kind of, you know, hurt them a little bit because I'm like, I'm sorry, like, you know, all the wedding industry's final sale, no refunds. Like we just, we booked you. We rely on that business. Like, you know, I held the position for you, like in, in my calendar and I'm sorry, that's just the way it is. And I only had a couple of those. I tried to get everyone to push it to, you know, I can push it to next year. That's totally fine. We're just going to roll it over and that's just how it's going to be. Um, and I was totally willing to do that, but yeah, it's just kinda hard right now for those one couple. I'm like, I'm sorry we have a party next year maybe or like go deliver them to family or you'll just have like a running invoice here and we'll just, you know, like every birthday we'll just take a little bit of chisel away. You have like a running credit. Yeah. That's why I'm totally like the 25% down. I know a lot of videographers and photographers, it's like 50 50, but then you get these people, like we had some that paid in full, you know, and I hate that it's so much stress to have that. And then, yeah, you're holding this day and we had one in August and they had booked like a year and a half ago and you just saw it, you know, it was two 50 and then 200 people and then one 50 and then 100, you know, and then we finally did the 30 person wedding and I just feel so bad. I'm like, man, you have the vision that you guys have when we booked is now, you know, it's radically different and you know, we've carried that invoice the whole time, you know, or carried the, what had been paid, you know, just carried the, carry the date the whole time, you know? Right. Um, with, with, with the new stuff last night with, you know, kind of some limited receptions here, whatever you anticipate getting some more orders and things. I mean, is that, that's obviously exciting news. Um, what are your thoughts just kind of on the, on the regulations that came out last night as of September 16th, 17th, now that we're recording this? Yeah. Super exciting, very proud of our community for really just hustling and getting it done and helping, uh, educate the politicians in our state that like, Hey, we can do this safely and it's better to do it this way versus not, and have all these crazy illegal weddings out in the boonies or something, you know, like let us do our job because we are the professionals and we know what we're doing. Um, the regulations. Yeah, it's really interesting on like the dancing. I mean, it's, it's very tight, like what you can and can't do still. But, um, I think, I think for most of my couples who have pushed back, I think they're just gonna stick with it. You know, the ones that were kind of holding out for the fall. Um, I'm probably gonna get some emails in the next week. So I'm anticipating that because I know a lot of my spring couples pushed it back to late summer, early fall through them, pushed it back, you know, to next year. But the ones that get my October, you know, groups were holding out just to see if anything happened. But, um, I have to actually look at my calendar just to see who those people are and get in contact with them now that we have a clear direction. Um, so, and like I said, that one, uh, who was canceling for August, emailed me this morning saying we're doing it next week. So that might've been one of them. I don't know if they would have found out that quickly. Um, I'm not sure if they're working with a planner or anything, so who knows I could have been one of those. Um, so I was totally zoning out there. Uh, um, Oh yeah, of course. Yeah. I definitely think that as things change. Um, yeah, we certainly, I would imagine what it would come in and I mean, it's not always applicable to weddings too. I mean, my mind was kind of wandering into other events too, cause I know, um, you know, with things like funerals is, I mean, it's, you know, they happen. Um, and I mean, that's another thing that we've, you know, had to like cater as well. So I mean, you have to think about, it's not always just weddings it's events like that as well. Um, cause I think like funerals in Washington, I think that it's like limited I, you know, close to weddings or something like 25. Um, yeah. And so, I mean, you have to think about things like that, cause we've actually had people reach out to us in that realm, um, as well. So I think that just with, you know, something's getting, um, like lifted and reconsidered, um, even within, uh, within and without, um, or like outside of the wedding realm that, um, you know, it's just going to open up a lot more for any kind of like specialty gathering in general. Oh no, the memorials is we just streamed a Memorial last week because of guest count. And then I have another Memorial on Sunday with friend of the podcast, Greg Lauder, there were, he's going to help DJ, but yeah, it's the same thing. Like you said, that, you know, unfortunately all this stuff happens and they have lots and lots of family that needs to come and lots and lots of family that can't travel to come and it's yeah, we were putting it up and they have people sending them messages from like Korea or wherever part of the family is because they just can't, you know, it's crazy. Right. Could you imagine you, you know, unfortunately having something happen to someone you love and then like literally not being able to go. Ah, it's crazy. Um, last question, cause I've kept you guys so long and I appreciate it here. We're getting ready to like you, you guys are opened up the bakery here in the minute. Um, if I'm someone planning a wedding right now, uh, what, just, just a good idea. Something to think about for a good take home. I know we talked about like cupcakes and stuff. Just fun stuff that you guys specialize in. If I'm someone that's kind of bummed out about, you know, having to downsize or whatever, but I still want to give my guests something fun or memorable, right? Some of the memorable to eat there, something memorable to take home from the wedding. What would you guys recommend? I always go for like my sugar cookies cause I can print edible images on them so I can put the couple's face on it, you know, like something fun. Um, I partner a lot with Shannon from impressing to do custom little tags that say like love is sweet, um, on them. And that's kind of fun. Um, I think, you know, thank God for like Pinterest and Etsy and stuff. There's so many cute little things that you could, you know, put on cupcakes or attach to the cupcakes or your desserts in general, just cupcakes, you know, to just make it a little bit more special. But, um, I would say my share copies are probably the most custom thing that I could do the most fun stuff with, um, in that regard. And for me, um, I've always just done like a huge spread for dessert bars and luckily, um, they're just, they're not, they're pretty robust, so you can actually individually wrap them. So anything from like cupcakes brownies to different kinds of like cookies, like sugar cookies. Yeah. You know, kind of just like an individual little thing, um, like, uh, top Grover Oreos cake pops. And again, a lot of those items you can still kind of customize them, which is great. Cause you can tie it in with a whole theme. So you're still getting that, um, kind of that fun, custom dessert option as well. Um, in a safe way when I love that idea that you guys talking about kind of The, the, if everyone's going to be situated, you know, by a table and family group and all of that, being able to put together a little box for each table or a little tray for each table. So people still feel like they're getting this, you know, variety of whatever and not having to go through like a dessert buffet or whatever right now. I just think it's a great idea. And I think that that makes people feel like really catered to, and really like the couple is thinking about them and not only like their safety, but then also like, Oh wow, look at all this fun stuff I get to eat or whatever. So I think that that's great. Just like, um, you know, utilizing all the talents of all the different bakers and, and other dessert makers and everything else, but really still finding ways to either make the weddings that we have so memorable and special. So I think that that's great. Anything else from you guys before I let you go up in the store and get busy? Ooh, can I do two plugs? Okay. First plug with the, since this is a wedding pro, if you are a part of about, or you're not there doing a movie night, I don't know if anyone else has mentioned it, but I'm doing the dessert. So whew. Yeah. So come get yummy treats and I would love to see, um, all the wedding professionals faces. I haven't seen him so, so, so long. Um, so come to that, check it out. It's on Wippa and then also we're doing a little event at the bakery on Halloween. Um, cause it's on a Saturday, like every great holiday this entire year has been on a Saturday to Saturday and no one's gonna be able to go trick or treating. So if you have kids or if you're in the Kirkland area, you can order on grub hub and Uber eats, we're gonna be doing special treats. So like Halloween theme, like cookies and cupcakes and all those kinds of things. So you can order online, you can kind of pop into the store, bring the kids, they can dress up. It's not like a trick or treating event. It's just come get fun treats and kind of get out of the house on a Saturday kind of thing. So we're gonna be open till like midnight. So it's gonna be fun or something hanging out at the bakery, ordering some wine and chilling. We have a fog machine. So I mean honestly like what could go wrong? It's going to be a great time. Yeah. Well knock in the mic and I will be there on a, on the drive in on the whip. I'll be doing the video. So we'll, we'll hang out. I was just at twin willows last week and that did that fantastic wedding, a nice safe wedding, followed all the rules. It was incredible. And I'll be excited to go back and see everybody and do that. That will be fun. Yeah. Looking forward to it. Thank you guys so much again, can you plug your, your company names and websites really quick and I'll let you go. Sure. Kayla at sea town suites, it's C town sweets.com C town like Seattle, S E a T O w N and Holly with Hollywood baked goods. Yes. That is a play on words. That was the intention. All Hollywood baked goods.com and we're on Instagram, Facebook and all that jazz. You got so much. I know I kind of sprung into sunny this week and it's you guys are crazy going into the weekend and it's busy, but I really appreciate it again. This has been another episode of the best made wedding and it's talking to some sweets today. And if you have a question for an upcoming episode, you can go to the [inaudible] dot com slash survey. We have all these vendor types and we do these round tables kind of every week talking about basically whatever I think is important. And right now we were talking about desserts. So we'll see what happens next week. And that thank you guys so much again for gracing us with your time.

Episode 15 - Wedding Planning Well-Being

Well, thank you so much. I'm so excited for this podcast today. We just had grace on the, get to know your wedding pro podcast last week. And I want to talk about that too. Before we get started today, I do have one announcement. If you guys are listening to this and you want to support the podcast, if you're a wedding bender like Tasha Owens, I know you listen to all these Rion McConnehey. Hey, all these people, I know you guys are listening. We have a new link set up. You can go to rate this podcast.com/weddings, and no matter what device you're on, if you're on an iPhone or a computer or a laptop, desktop tablet, whatever, it'll take you to be appropriate, like Apple podcasts or whatever. So, you know, we do this for free both the wedding networking, one, get to know your wedding pro and then obviously this one that the wedding planning one. So rate this podcast.com/weddings. And if you're sitting there and you're saying, well, read, I just, I just watched the Facebook videos. I don't, then you can go to YouTube type in best made videos and just subscribe over there. All these are totally free. It really supports it. If you're, you know, a couple planning the wedding, if you found value in this at all rate this podcast.com/weddings. I just wanted to preface that I always put it in the notes, but we just got that link set up and it would be really important if you guys could, you know, leave some reviews for the podcast. Now that we've got that out of the way I'm so excited to have grace on this is the first solo of the best meal plans. I normally we do a round table, but grace has so much info today. We're going to be talking about, I think I'm calling this episode, wedding planning, the wellbeing, just you know, planning the wedding, things to talk with your partner about dealing with dresses, with COVID and kind of all the other stuff we're going to get into today. Greatest. Why don't you introduce yourself and give us a little bit of background. I know we did an hour long discussion all about your tons of experience and experiences and all sorts of stuff, but who are you and why are you qualified to help us through this journey today? Okay, well I'm grace McCloud and I'm personal growth, spiritual growth relationship growth counselor, coach. I that's been my whole career and my passion is actually conscious relating. I just, since my very first paper in university was about communication. I'm a communication nerd. And so my commitment is first of all, to practice what I preach, I practice on myself and have my whole developmental life and to help whoever relationship is what we're here for on this planet to do. And I see that because we don't learn it growing up, we're all kind of crashing in to each other and we have these wonderful, massive, big dreams, especially for marriage and happily ever after, but we don't necessarily have the skill sets. So my I'm a practice based experiential coach. It's not just about talking at you and my wish is to give you the skills and the tools and the understanding so that you can grow your relationship with yourself. Really get to know each other cope with all this crazy stress that's going on, have a beautiful wedding when it's your turn and more importantly, an extraordinary marriage. So, And, and grace came on you know, as in the wedding fishing too, that that's also what you do. And that was kind of the impetus of, and I was going to say before too, and I forgot, you know, we do the, get to know your wedding pro podcast a lot. I, you know, I interview a lot of people that I know that I've worked with and, you know, obviously we get a lot of people that we've never met. And so, you know, and you had reached out and, you know, we always kind of do the due diligence and kind of looking through everything, but it is kind of always this guessing game, right? When new people reach out and you're like, well, you know, I don't know them is this They're weirdo, Right? I mean is going to be a total bust. I mean, what's going to be going on. And I'm so glad that you reached out and I'm so glad that we got to talk about your wedding officiating and everything else. And yeah, through that discussion, we started talking about pre-reading pre wedding counseling. And I just think that's so interesting because you know, so much of the time you talk about like couples going to therapy and all this like disaster talk like what's going on. And I think it's so great to, you know, that people don't necessarily relate to each other perfectly all the time. Right. And especially when they're in relationships. So talk about just kind the, the philosophy behind what you do and helping people out, and you have a lot of notes. So please like lead into this cause I'm kind of the dummy today. So, so whether we talking about and what do you work with couples through? Okay. Well, I think what I'd like to do is just acknowledge that, especially for couples that are already engaged and maybe we're full throttle into their planning for their wedding, it's such a huge event in a couples life. And all of a sudden we have this full stop with COVID. So I'm calling this the great disruptor. It's not just for weddings, it's for every aspect of life. And in my life, I had a huge disruptor is when I was young, very, very young and very traumatic. And it led me onto a path of what's it all about and what do I really want? And when we get asked to full stop, we get to get off the train for a minute and really ask is that actually what I still want? And so it's also the great awakener whenever we have a big destruction like this. So for those of you that were planning a wedding, maybe your whole life you dreamt of this, you wanted the big hoo ha it's heartbreaking. And I hear it all the time. And I'm here today to invite you, to consider maybe you get to re-explore what deeply matters to us, do even know that and how can we use this opportunity to re envision it? Even if it doesn't look anything like what we imagined, maybe we take it back into our own hands and maybe we get a little bit more choice and we help each other envision something that might even meet our needs even more than what we thought, because it's an industry and we're fed a dream. I certainly was first, all I had was a bride doll. I hadn't looked at bride magazines, the whole thing, but it may not actually be what we all want or need. So this is a whole stop. I want to share some suggestions about how to deal with that frustration and disappointment, and then how to help each other move into a visioning. So that's about COVID. And the other beautiful thing that I want to address today is that with most of your weddings, your big weddings on hold, even if you choose a little mini ceremony, which can be extraordinary, you get this incredible opportunity to do what I'm passionate about, which is build the container of your relationship. Cause the whole point of relationship, it's kinda like we fall in love and we imagine we're going to live happily ever after, but it's the most potent growth process you will ever engage in your entire life. And especially when you move in together and put two sets of furniture in one space, it's going to bring up your inner life. So my work is about helping you get really good and clear and informed about each other and your external approach to life. And more importantly, to get in here and know who am I really what's matters to me, what works for me? What are my strengths, my weaknesses, my challenges, and who the heck are you? And maybe I know that, and maybe we don't. So you have this beautiful, beautiful opportunity to just deepen your love. And I have lots of suggestions. This is my work I'd love to support you all. And I consider this good news, even though I know there's a lot of hurt and disappointment going on, This is great. You have taken, literally taken my, my ramblings of a Google doc questions that I, but I mean, and, and, and perfectly gotten into like same page of what we're talking about today. So thank you so much. So, so go ahead. I mean, we're, where did we start? You know, and I guess what also I'm so excited about is it totally embodies the philosophy of this podcast, which is focusing on the positives now, because like you said, people are distraught and trying to get around the rules and what can we do? And this is a disaster and this is, you know, how can we make the best of everything we have going on? So, so go for it. Okay, great. So we've got the idea that this is the great disruptor, but it's also a great opportunity for new choices. So an exercise that I thought couples could do is have some calming exercises that actually, maybe we'll do these first because my work and my coaching, people who coached me said, if I'm about to engage with you and sort some things out, I can do that from up here and up here, or I can wait and center myself and get grounded and be present and open my heart and get into a little bit more openness. And the conversation we will have, there is 1000% different. So if there's some stress, if there's some disappointment, I'm a breath coach. That's the fundamental foundation of my work. One extraordinarily simple practice you can do in one minute is something called connected breath. And all it is is you sit for a moment, probably with your eyes closed. And first of all, we have this ability to notice, and we're always noticing outside, just turn the spotlight inside and pay attention and notice your breathing. It immediately focuses you because you're trying to pay attention to this thing that happens all the time by itself. Just let it be no judgment, shallow jaggedy, smooth, quiet, loud, whatever. And then very, very gradually, you're going to start to concentrate and slow the breath down and breathe in and see if you can pay attention to where the top of your inhalation is. And then immediately let go and go down to the bottom of the exhalation and really let it finish like a balloon. And as soon as you're done draw the breath in, and if you slow it down, you'll breathe in more and you'll actually find that you're letting your exhale go. So the breathe in is yes to life. Yes, the way it is right now, whether I like it or not in breathe out is okay and letting go of control. And I'm not even pushing the exhalation out. I'm just letting it go. And then this connection is where we go into whole brain. The two lobes of the brain start to synchronize our blood pressure goes down. Our heart rate goes down and we go into what we call unity consciousness, where we start to feel like we're connected to ourself, we're connect to our partner or connected to life. And what happens. There is stuff that we can't get when we're all disconnected and stress. So that's my thing that I teach everybody connected breath. You can try that another one, this is going to make you smile. About a month ago, I was trying to figure out how I could offer my help. Everybody's offering their strategies for saving the world and say to each other. And I decided to launch something called humming for health and happiness. So humming is the most natural thing we do. We do it when we're happy. I'm suggesting we do it as a stress Buster. And it's really as simple as you think is just take a breath in and All through the nose. Nasal breathing is super helpful and long slow exhalation. And you start to create this vibration in the throat, goes up to the brain, shakes the brain up a little bit gets rid of the stress, goes down to the heart, opens the heart, sends all this great antiviral energy into the lungs. You can hum a tune. So I started my campaign with you are my sunshine. We're can all be kids, or you can just do three to five long, slow breath in and do another breath in. And it's quite extraordinary. It calms the nervous system. Again, it's a concentration exercise that you can't be all with. You're fussing when you're humming. And I've created this videos on my YouTube channel. It's grace Mackey really easy. There's about six of them there. That explains why and how so humming for health and happiness. So I would encourage you to try some little tiny practices like that to state shift yourself. So that's my first suggestion. And then I have an exercise. So I'll let you have a moment there. No, it's perfect. And, and I do, and as someone that's, that's really you know, done yoga for a long time and Savasana and really kind of centering. And I am terrible at that now, you know, and I think a lot of people, but I mean, we are, we're just so just, you know, running through everything and I think it's so nice. And I know, especially with wedding planning, you know, I always joke with Dorothy that like five to eight or six to eight at night when couples get home from work and like they're shoveling dinner and they're trying to figure out, okay, what decisions do we got to make tonight or, okay, we got to get that cake stand or we gotta get the whatever and just, you know, taking a minute, like you said, in some of these practices and really just trying to like stop and focus and kind of figure out, okay, whether we need to work on that or whether we need to talk about. And when you do center like that, what you tap into is your intuition. And you're much more in touch with your inner cues in a sec, you know what? I'm exhausted tonight? I just realized I humbled for three rounds of breathing and I'm exhausted. I don't know if I want to do wedding planning tonight. So let's go to bed early and maybe we can get up in the morning and do it. And you get much more connected to your yourself and each other and more authentic. So that's the key to everything is trying to find your true, authentic self and lead your life from there. So those are the recharge practices and there's thousands of them. The suggestion that I wanted to make for an exercise for each other is once you've done that to take turns, being the newspaper interviewer and the one that's going to get asked, the questions would sit or maybe even lay down and just ask this really sweet question, honey, what was your dream? What was your dream for our wedding? What was it? Tell me, and then just stream of consciousness and the other person writes it down and see what happens, see what comes out. And then the next one is, and then take turns doing that maybe for this next one, you sit up and the next one is called facing what is feeling? What is naming? What is, and again, if you want to re write it down. And so I think pissed and I'm so disappointed and I'm so frustrated and I want what I want and I can't have it. And I just want to kick something and you just get to say it because I think there's a lot of that that hasn't even been digested yet. It's in there, it's bottled up. It's like, everybody's well, get over it. It's the way it is, you know, move on. And we're already into trying plan B and we really haven't had a chance to just feel it. Maybe you need to vent it. Maybe you need to cry a little bit. And it helps us to acknowledge what we've got going on and have our partner hear us, and then vice versa, both of you. And then the next one is the wonderful part. Okay. Given what we've got, we've got the, what is now, we've got all these seeming restrictions. What's your deepest heart's desire for a wedding. And maybe it's two parts. Maybe it's a ceremony now and a party later. And then again, write it. And there's some key elements. It's like, Whoa, what do you want to feel before, during and after? What are the elements that you want to have included who needs to be there? Who can't be there? What are we going to do about them? And what is the absolute essential to our wedding now? And is it that we really still want to proceed? And what is that going to look like? Or are we willing to wait and still keep continuing with our plants? So something like that, where you get to envision it and you take the reins back and you realize, wait a minute, we're not victims here. Yes, there's a pandemic. But that doesn't mean we're completely out of ideas. And you would be amazed the creativity that comes up when you get clear, what's the non-negotiables, it's like, well, I want you and me and I want us to have a heartfelt ceremony and I want a license. So we didn't get a tax break or whatever, if that's it, then there's millions of options. And so the creativity starts to come in and then you can re initiate your planning. So those are some of the suggestions. Yeah. I think it's so important to two notes. I have was one where you're talking about the, you know, asking people, you know, asking, you know, your significant other, you know, what do you want, what are you looking for? And I know that, that I was guilty about that as well with Dorothy, you know, we were planning and you, you know, I was involved in the wedding industry, you know, when we got engaged and when we planned our wedding. And so I know that I had a lot of stuff on my shoulders of like, well, I'm supposed to know all of this. Right. So it's, so, you know what I mean? So like, and when it came to like putting together our timeline and putting together, you know, a lot of the different things, I felt like, well, man, you know, if our friends show up or our family or whatever, and you know, something doesn't go right. Or something's in the wrong order, right. They're going to look to me cause I'm supposed to be the one that knows all that. And, you know, had we have done some of these exercises, maybe I would have conveyed that a lot earlier to Dorothy. Right. You know, she, on the other side, obviously isn't, you know, in the wedding industry and was, it was focusing on the comfort of, you know, her family. And so the example I'll give, and I can't remember if I've given it before on the podcast, but her dad my father in law was absolutely terrified of giving a speech. Right. Like absolutely terrified. You know, just, and, and who wouldn't be. I mean, I would be too often to get up there, but they had wanted to do it. I can't remember like it was like at right after cocktail hour or they wanted to do it and just kinda like get it out of the way. And I remember, you know, we had talks and, you know, with our DJ, with everything and the planner, well, you know, normally you would do it this way. And then we would do that. And it's kind of weird to do a speech there. And then, you know, once he wanted to do it, and then his, my mother in law, you know, she wanted to do it with them. And then my sister, so it ended up being this whole big thing. And I'm sitting there with all my preconceived, whatever, like, well, you know, we can't do it that way because people are gonna look and they're going to say like, well, that's wrong. Or that's not the way, whatever. And Dorothy, and I have this, you know, not an argument, but like a discussion about it. And she said, well, you know, I don't, it doesn't matter. Right. And, and what's important. But like I said, you know, having those discussions, cause I think a lot of times people assume, well, I feel this way. And so then you, you should know like why I feel that way too, even though I haven't vocalized it. And we talked and we talked about that on the, get to know your wedding pro podcast, where people don't necessarily ask as many questions anymore. They talk and feel like they just don't ask why a lot. They just kind of, you know, talk and don't really ask questions. And so that would be the perfect example of kind of going through this. Absolutely. And what I've also been aware of with the couples I've been working with is most of them have canceled the wedding planner because it's not a big enough event for one and the venue who would normally help them with this kind of stuff. It has been falling on me and I am a workshop designer. I love that kind of stuff. But what you said was the key, it doesn't matter. It's your wedding. I mean, yes, there's some flows, but if dad needs get it out of the way and do it early, so be it, we can make that happen. If that's going to make him relax and be more in his heart and more able to connect with the both of you, isn't that what's important. So that's what I'm talking about. It's like talk to each other, find out what's the most precious part about your wedding that you want to feel. I mean, you can get all dressed up, you can have the perfect everything and walk away or they're numb or so exhausted or disappointed. So, you know, it's, it's, it's supposed to make you feel something. And that would be what I would ask. What did you want to feel in our wedding? The way that we had planned it, how do we make sure that you get that and how do we want to feel with each other and in relationship to all those that are involved. So really the questions can bring up so much. And then if they seem to be, I'm going to say this about several times quite often, you'll find out they're exactly opposite or they're surprises. And instead of like, well, I don't think we should do it that way. And it's like, Oh really tell me more about that. What's important to you about that. Oh, I didn't realize that. Explain and take it down deeper and you'll find what's called the deep, well, the reason I want dad to do his speech, the minute we walk into the reception hall is because I don't want to be worried about Donald. Like, and I want to take care of dad. He's paying for the whole thing. And I love my dad. I want to protect him. So it's like, if you get into inquiry, you'll get down to the deep. Why, whether it's the wedding planning or why are we getting married or who are you really? So those are the next steps. Are this process. Yeah. Cause I'm so, I'm so guilty about that. Whereas spiritually, where I work at home and do Dorothy's thesis well now back at school, doing doing remote teaching, you know, with the kids, but all sit there all day and like have something in my head, right. Then I've thought about, thought about, thought about, and then she'll come home and I'll be like, Hey, so, you know, even with wedding planning, Hey, I think we should do. And it's like, well, I don't want to do that. And you're like, Oh no, you know, I've spent eight hours thinking about this. And like you said, it's not, it's that reactionary. And I'm so guilty of that. And so what do you, I mean, how do you help that? I mean, cause I'm a passionate person that way too, which is I always have that reactionary approach. And I think a lot of people maybe feel that way. What w So that's where I would say, now we're starting to talk about how to prepare for the marriage. And, you know, some couples have been together for a pretty long time, so this may not be as pertinent, but a lot, once the engagement happens, it's all about what we're still working. We're still managing our lives. And we got this monster thing to call off and all the changes and it all becomes about the planning of the wedding. But the point is, it's a marriage. And as I said before, if you do it well, you can set up the practices and the clarity and the connection that builds like a home. And over the years you go, Oh, right. Well, when I've been thinking about this all day long and you come in and go, honey, I want to talk to you. I'm not now, or no, I don't want that. It's like, Whoa, what the hell just happened? You can build up what I call best practices. And we're going to get into that. So let me just if you don't mind, I've got some suggestions here. Is it OK if we move on to this part? Great. Okay. So here we are. Ah, sorry. Yeah. So the first thing about preparing for the marriage is what I call the external life. And I'm famous for my tie charts. So here we have our pie chart and you can each make one of these. And then this is about your external life, all the segments of your life. That you're about to put together when you get married. So it could be work. It could be fun and recreation. It could be health and wellness. It could be finances. It could be intimacy, could be family and friends. It could be some of the other ones our culture, maybe our face. And you pick whichever ones are important to you, your partner conduct different ones, but it will help if you have a conversation about the really significant ones. And then so you put them there and then take some paper. And again, what really matters to me about finances, what really matters to me about work, what really matters to me and on and on and on, and just write two or three things and get one out. That's great. If you can get three great, and then share, and you'll be surprised. It's like, Whoa, really? We have to go to your parish for Christmas every year or the world's going to fall apart. Oh, I didn't know that a kid's is another one, you know, on there. So it will open up a conversation where you might think, you know each other, but you may not. And then it's like, what do we do when we've got completely, either opposite, important things on our pie, or we see them completely differently. And then there's a practice for dialoguing, which I call the both and approach. What if we take your view of finances, I want to sock it all away and not spend a dime. And in 20 years we're going to retire and travel the world. Well, I want to have parties. I want a garden. I want to go on trips every year. What do we do now? And instead of fight about it for the next year or two, 10 years, we go into, what's called both end thinking, which is okay, sock it away for 20 years, spend it and enjoy life as we go diametrically. Opposed if you wait and really say, why is that important to you? What is it? What will that give you? If you to spend it as we go, what will that give you? If you talk long enough, you will actually find that, Oh, because you want the joy now. Oh, but you want to have something to look forward to. We're getting closer. We're getting closer now. How do we find the both in most people think we have to compromise. Well, let's cut half of your piece off and we'll add it to half of mine. And we'll make, do not necessarily. If you wait and really think about, well, what's the underneath thing. Well, I want joy now. They want joy later. And this, when I call the divine third idea, we'll drop in a sec. Hey, what if we do like an account for retirement? And each of us contribute to that, every paycheck. And we build that sucker and let's have a separate account and put some money in there for maybe not every year trips, but every other year, Whoa, I didn't think of that. And both people are like, Hey, that works for me. And you're not fighting. And you're not trying to convince each other of which is the right one and which is the wrong one. And you go around and you can do that. It's it's work. And it doesn't necessarily come right away, but you can get there. So that's some homework that you can try. And when you get to the try to discuss it part, obviously one thing I wanted to mention, because you're not having a great big wedding right now, maybe that account is over here and it's on hold. You can also consider using some of that money to invest in help and support. And the more you build these practices and these communication skills and these self care skills, now the better your marriage will be. So I would say invest in some coaching and some experiential retreats classes, whatever. So that's the first one. You want to say something there? So, and, and, and I think that because, and maybe it's just me, but I always think there's this preconceived notion that like, if we have to go seek outside help, right? If, if, if me and my significant other, my partner, you know, if we have to go get help, then like we failed, right. Or like, we didn't do it. Right. Or we couldn't figure it out on our own. And so what do you say to that? Because obviously that's not the case, but what I mean, talk about that where it's like, well, we're a failure. If we gotta go talk to someone, Well, what I call it is it's the school we need to go to school. I mean, we go to school for ABC. One, two, three, we go to school for our jobs. We go to school to learn, to cook. Why not go to school to learn how to be in relationship, especially with yourself, which there's hardly any school for and relationships school. So it's about learning it's discovery and learning and building skills, which if you get the thing of, well, we're broken, that's why we need help. Instead. It's like, we don't know it. Wasn't part of our upbringing. We don't know. Let's go to somebody who spent their life, learning this stuff and let them share their wealth with us. You've got expertise in some areas. This happens to be mine and you're learning. So it's beautiful when you take that approach of, geez, I don't know, and I'm not broken. I just don't know. And I also maybe have never gone on a discovery path of what really makes a great relationship and do I even have a relationship with myself? So there's all this outer stuff that we might need help with, but it boils down to the two human beings and how conscious, how aware, how awake and how skillful. So I consider it skill-building if nothing else building a foundation. My other question is, do you find that a lot of couples do like are on opposite sides? Like you're showing the pie chart and, and, and having different ideas about that. Cause I think people think like, well, I'm going to find someone and they're going to agree with me on everything. Right? So, I mean, but, but I mean, this may be a dumb question, but do you find that a lot of people are actually do have very different ideas about stuff and are really trying to meld those, those two sides together? Well this is a fascinating subject quite often, we're all different, but there tends to be two paths of being attracted and some are based on sameness and some are based on opposites attracting. The interesting thing is the sameness can create an ease because we think alike, we have similar values. We, you know, we're on that same path, but those couples will come and say, it's more like a friendship than a, than a lover ship sometimes. And then there's others where it's like, Oh, we're so different, but it's UC. And we have to really work at respecting each other and making room for each other. The third one is when we've done our own inner work and we've gotten really clear about who we are. We're more likely to attract someone who's at our same level in terms of self-development. And when we're there, even if we hold money differently or whatever health or whatever, there's a sense of there's room for me and there's room for you. And we do this both end thing. So part of it is, is that some, the attraction is we are so much alike that it's going to be fairly easy. These things aren't going to be that challenging others. It's like, Whoa, we got to learn to make room. And those can be challenging, but they're very growth inducing. And then, then tear up is when we've made this personal choice to have life be a growth experience, we tend to someone, hopefully who's willing to do that. And then it almost doesn't matter because we are going to work on it and we're going to use it for our development. Okay, cool. I can continue on. I've derailed you enough. These are all great. So then we start to move into, alright, we've got our pie chart. We know about all these parts of life. Then we get down underneath, which is, well, what are our core values and values beliefs? It's kind of set in stone. This is just the way I am. And again, the good old pie chart. And it doesn't matter what goes on there, but if you can get clear, what are your fundamental values as a human being, honesty, integrity, respect accountability. I take responsibility for my own experience, kindness service to the world, hardworking. It doesn't matter what they are, but if you can fill up six of those and realize, Whoa, that's me, those are really important to me. Here's yours. What's going to happen. There is the decisions you make on the other pie chart are going to be informed by this. So my value is to feel safe and secure in life. Therefore I want to save for 30 years. They have everything to do with each other. And hopefully you want to get to the point where you have respect for each other's core values because we're, the hurt comes from in relationship is when I Trump on one of your values and I don't know I'm doing it. And if you can tell me, you know what, when you came home late and you didn't call, it really hurts. Why, how do you know I come home late? You know, I'm always going to be here. What's the big deal, because count on ability and accountability is really important to me. And in my experience, you're not being counted honorable right now. So the thing is the thing, but the deeper thing is in the values. So that's that one is that you relate to that one. Yes, that's good. Okay. And then now we're going into the inner world. So this becomes like a fork in the road in a way, in terms of our life choice and not everybody is ready for this, but this is what my life became about. I was really pretty on top of all the external stuff, but I didn't really have an interior life. I didn't know who I really was. I was operating on everything that I was given as a child and it was pretty unconscious. And then some things happened and I had massive wake up call and I went to school to learn about how do I be unaware human being? And it's this whole inquiry? Who are you? You know, what are your core beliefs? What are your wounds? What are your expectations? What's your self talk? Like? What's your level of self esteem? Do you know how to care for yourself? Do you know how to soothe yourself? When you're distressed? Do you know how to breathe and digest your emotions? Do you even know what you feel? Can you say what you feel? All that inner stuff. And a lot of it is programming from our childhood. It's not who we actually are, but it's how we operate. And we call that the persona. You know, I walk up, I shake your hand. Hi, I'm grace. I'm a high achiever. I'm a people pleaser. I get hurt easily. Don't say anything too hard on me or I'll cry. And that's who I introduced myself to. And then I have this whole deeper being inside that I've come to discover is also who I am. So ideally people couples go, wow, we could dare to go here and go inside. And it's cobwebby in there. And there's some stuff we may not want to look in those boxes, but if we can, we can unravel the stuff that's programming that we just picked up from our culture, from our families, from being an unconscious human being. And we can start to bring forth the authentic human being. And let me introduce myself to you and let me introduce myself to you. And this is where it's the most profoundly moving work I do is to work with an individual who discovers. I know that person. I remember her from when I was three years old or four years old. And I play in the mud puddles, or I don't remember. I love baseball. I just love baseball and the smell of the glove and the, and the real child comes out and the well, who were you back then? And how do we bring that person back into your life? And then how do those two people get to know each other and then start to build a relationship based on those authentic people. So that's the deeper dive. And if you can do that before you get married, phenomenal, even if you are married, it's ideal of both of you will start together, but sometimes just one partner is ready and the other isn't to do it for yourself. The more in touch you are, the more connected, even if you're getting triggered, you can go inside and you have the skills and the practices to resolve that. And then the last piece is what I call those best practices. How do I communicate with you? And we can get to that in a minute, but the more I know myself and the more I've even learned how to digest my own inner experience, even if you were the trigger, the more I can come to you from a more integrated place and say, Hey, can we please talk? There's something going on and I can even share from a more responsible place. So that's enough for that, that I told you there was a lab. Do you find that and I'll, I'll just kind of blanket these, obviously there's a lot more nuance to it, but do you find that people don't, you know, do that inner discovery out of like fear or laziness or complacency or busy-ness or why do you, you know, I mean, cause obviously in an ideal world, everybody would know, you know, all their motivations and their partner's motivations and be all this. So is it, what, what are the factors that are preventing us from doing that discovery? Most of it is automatic pilot. We are from the minute we're born, we're taught the, like this, do this and then square one out there, read a book you know, get on a sports team. It's all about outer, outer, outer. And unfortunately that's our culture. So we live in a pretty disconnected culture. And that's what this time is about. You know, when a pandemic comes, it's full stop, nobody gets to be on autopilot. It's the perfect time to go. Well, what if I went in here? So we just have not had it in our culture very much. There's other cultures that are much, much more connected, indigenous cultures, all that. So again, honor it, this is the way you were raised. You don't know what you don't know. And usually something will trigger. You know what? I'm not as happy as I'm pretending I am, or we're not as good as we think we are. If we're going to get honest here and do our pie charts, there's something missing. That's usually the first there's some distress or some dissatisfaction or there's a, what if I dared would have, I dare to imagine it could be better. It doesn't all have to be we're broken and something's wrong. It could be wood. If we wanted more and either way, there's something that wants more or something that's hurting. It's the door in. And sometimes it will be a crisis, but I say, don't wait for the crisis. You can choose this and just come they say, come with beginner's mind become humble. I know I'm on automatic pilot. I don't know any other way. This sounds intriguing. I'm a little scared. I don't know what's going to come up. What if we don't love each other anymore at the end of it, you know, that's a possibility. And I always say, would you rather know that now than get into the marriage and discover that in a few years when the glow is so it's risky, but the life of growth is risky. You lose control over the externals and you gain your empowerment. So that's the payoff. That's good. So then you wanted to go into communication, right? Yes. Yeah. So I put my best practices here. Here we go. Okay. So we talked about learning how to have a relationship with yourself. And usually you need to have a coach to do that. You can read books, you can watch videos, but to have a guide that helps you feel like you're being held so that you can relax your ego, the ones that doing, doing, doing, and being in control and settle in. So that's some, again, some practices and skill building. And then for dialogue, It's quite amazing. Like you mentioned last time, mostly we want to talk and that is driven from the profound, deep ache to feel heard and to feel gotten, there's this weird word I get you. And it's not just, I get your words, I get your meaning. And I even get why that's important to you. If you know how to do that, for someone they will adore you. And the fascinating thing is you'll even go in deeper and realize, Oh, well that wasn't even the thing I wanted to say. It was this so conscious dialogue. It's learning to first having done this, some quiet time to get down under the reactionary layers and get down to what is it I'm feeling? What is it that I need to say was I triggered of a law and I comment, I speak responsibly. Hi. I feel, I imagined that when you didn't call, it was because you weren't thinking about me. I don't know what's going on. I want blah, blah, blah. And we own it. We own it. We own it. We say whatever we say. And then the conscious responding to me. This is the red pill of radically amazing relationship. If I can sit there and be fully present and let go of the need to go. Yeah. But that, wasn't it. While am I turning? No, no, no. That's not true. And I didn't mean that I'm shocked and just let them have their turn and be a conscious listener and then responder. And you listen with your whole heart and soul and then you go, so what I heard you say is, and you paraphrase back. Did I get it? Well, you got most of it, but you didn't get that piece where I said you didn't call. And I asked you to call, Oh, so I didn't call. When you asked me to call I'm over here going. I didn't. So I didn't tell you didn't pick up some silence. Oh, that's what you said. I'm just paraphrasing back what you said. Did I get it? Yes. You got the essence of it. Wow. So that's how it is for you. That you're upset that I didn't call. Yes. Yes. And that's called validation. I get that. That's how it is for you. There's a monster under your bed with my name on it. No, there isn't. I'm not a monster. Yes. For you in this moment, it's under the bed and it's got my name on it. That's your experience. I can let you have it. I tell you we could end world Wars. If we knew how to do this, I swear it. And then the blessing, the heart connecting thing is, wow. So if I didn't call, when you asked me to call and I even said, I'd call and you feel like you've told me this three times, wow. That must feel awful to you. I don't know why we're still Doing this outcomes, the feelings and you sit and you let them have it. Your job is to get them to go down and feel it all and get to say it all. And you just listen and you've just given them gold and then they're done. And then you get a term. Well, my version is completely different and you, it takes time. It takes a lot of skill and you each get your turn. And then we get to this place. It's like, wow. Well, we both feel heard. We both feel validated and emphasized with, we don't have an answer yet. What do we do about when you come home late? And then you go into that part. I was talking about, about the both. And let's see if we can come up with something that works for you and works for me. And again, that's a lot of skill and quite often the thing that I want from you, what could you just call me? Could you just call me when you know, you're running late? Jeez. I have every damn time, you know, I'm coming. Yeah. It would really help me. I could maybe let this go. She could just maybe text me and it'll be a stretch I don't want to, but you know what? If it's going to calm down that heart of yours and make you really get that you're cared for. I'll stretch and I'll let you have that. It's not going to cost me much. It'll be a stretch, but I'll give it to you and Oh, you will. Okay. And if I start to get anxious and I don't know, maybe I could text you say, honey, are you coming? And I'll meet you there. That would be great. Whereas not all on me. Thank you. And you give each other a healing behavior change that isn't the end of the world. So there's lots and lots to that piece, but that's the essence of it. And obviously, you know, that would be, you know, for couples or whoever to, to reach out to someone, you know, like a professional to, to help Got to learn that. Yeah. I mean, there's, that's, there's whole institutes that teach this and this is what I, this is how I work with couples. I helped them with the building, the relationship with themselves, and then being able to have these skills for relating to each other. And it's profoundly beautiful. It's, it's really quite extraordinary. What can happen? I've seen miracles happen with not only couples. I would like to add. I work a lot with family members quite often as mothers and daughters and sometimes fathers and sons. So it works in all relationships. Yeah. It's interesting. Cause like you said with people's just need to talk and, and, and I do feel like sometimes when you're, you know, even like with our friends and other couples and stuff and like you're talking to, and it does just feel like they're, they're not listening, they're just waiting to, to respond and, and there's, I'll tell you there's nothing more cause Dorothy is a very good listener in question to ask her, but there's some people where, and, and it's weird. Cause even like, we'll, we'll hang out with some and like, we'll say, Oh, that was, that was a good day with that person. Like they seemed like they were maybe a little bit more perceptive of wanting to communicate versus like, Oh, and especially right now with like warranty and like we'll be talking, you know, we'll have people over, you know, like safely and we'll be like, Oh, they must've really wanted to get some stuff off their chest today. Cause there just wasn't as much dialogue there. So yeah, it definitely goes for couples and friends and families and everybody. I mean everybody, everybody, but like you said, I think I just got so on this topic, you know, like I said, when we talked on the other podcasts about just preemptively going through some of this stuff and, and right now with, with, you know, the extra time that people have you know, with planning and just in general, it's just good to, to really try to figure this stuff out. Cause I know again, we talked to him, the other podcasts, you know, there's some couples that we know and you think, what do they talk about when they're at home or what do they do or what is this? Just because there's just not, like you said, this, this inner communication with themselves or with partners, you know, it's just not, And a couple of other things I just wanted to mention like I said, mostly when we're drawn to each other, there's this amazing thing. It's kind of a mystery. There's something about that person that attracts us usually because they somehow represent the thing that we've always wanted. You know, they're kind to me, they bring me flowers or, you know, they give me great sex or whatever it is. And it draws us like a bee to honey. Interesting thing is, is that once we start to move in together and start to live the daily life, they also will trigger the wound and it goes both ways. They don't call, Oh my God, my mother used to leave me in the school yard and wouldn't, and I'd be panicked and I wouldn't know him well, you know, they'd be nice to me for awhile. And then he cut me off and I didn't know what I did wrong. And it's this mad soulful science that we will pick the person that we think will fulfill our deepest need. And instead they bring up our greatest wound. So not always some marriages are blessedly, gentle and easy and great friendships. But if you're dealing with that, even before you get married, there's something there, your souls are brought you together to grow. And even though each of us is individually responsible for healing, the partner can commit to being your greatest champion and can provide those little healing behaviors and you grow each other into the person that's no longer hurting you. And it's like, you turn into these people that you always dreamed of and that's a journey. So that's a big, and as I said, if you, if you're on hold anyway, I can't think of anything more to spend your time and your resources on than invest in your own growth and your growth as a relationship. And then the other thing I wanted to mention, as I said, make room for joy. You know, it's not all gloom and doom. There's lots of sweet ways that you can just put the stress aside. I was watching Netflix the other night and I rewatched a movie called the big wedding where there's all these superstars in it. And it's just a freaking disaster and family dynamics and everything. And in the end it all works. And it was just this beautiful, real that lighthearted look at weddings. And at that point couples that are having a hard time bought this and, or just make sure you're getting out and having a walk or make a date night at home and cook dinner for each other, or give each other a background, you know, really make sure that you don't let the stress of the world take away your joy. And there's even, you know, beautiful little practices that you can do. You can sit together quietly and do that connected breath, or you can just sit beside each other and slow down and see if you can get your breathing just synchronized. And it takes a little bit of doing, but if you relax, if you sync up your breathing, you're connecting at a level that's way underneath all that. Hoo ha. And then we start to create a sense of safety. You can also spoon and one person can put their hand on the other one's heart and just send them love and then turn over and do the other thing. There's all sorts of things you can do that don't require talking. And sometimes those work better than sitting down and just duking it out or, you know, all that other stuff. That's great. I love it. Just lots of good, just little tidbits and homework to take home and little things to try, which was kind of the, the whole impetus of trying to do this podcast to that. So that's great. And like I said to IRI, like you said, finding the joy and feeling like, you know, we just, I filmed a small wedding ceremony last night and you know, obviously there, I think they were going to do like a big wedding in October and I don't really know kind of all the ins and outs of it. And then they ended up doing just a, just a little tiny ceremony at Chateau Lil over in Woodville, just beautiful. And, and even with the smoke, I know the smoke spot, beautiful filtered light coming in with the journeys. They were like blending two families. So she had two daughters, he had a dog you know, all these different things. And I felt well, this is, you know, I don't even know if they were going to get married there. Right. I mean, I think that they have, this was nothing at all, what they were planning to do originally back the year, year and a half ago when they planned all this. But like you said, finding that joy and like look at what we have here and the, and the people that we were able to have here and the, we were able to have. And so I just thought that was a great example where here was something that was definitely like, not what they had planned, but ended up being kind of perfect for that moment. And so, like you said, just really kind of focusing on that stuff. Yeah. And to re remember that the whole point is to be in this joyful, amazing expression of exchanging love. I mean, that's why it turned into such a big deal, cause it's a really big deal, but the big deal can be happening here and with, you know, your inner circle. And then if you want a party, fine have a party, but don't miss the essence of it, which is you, you know, exchanging your love with each other and being celebrated by your closest. So that can happen in the living room and I've done them like that. So Well you absolutely killed it today. This is on Monday when I have this in my head and message you, this is, you know, exactly what I just hope the best that I hoped it could be. So thank you so much you know, for sharing your knowledge and expertise. If, if people want to find more about you and the different services you offer and, you know, I know there's a variety of different things. So feel free to take the time here to talk about, Yeah. I mean, if, obviously I'd love to support any couples that find this interesting or would be willing to put their toe in these waters. And what I usually recommend for a couple is that you consider at least three sessions, one for each of you on your own, and it can be zoom or phone or whatever. And then one to do together and then we'll do whatever you want. If you want the external planning and the pie chart, if she wants some communication help, if you want some distressing and breathing. But the cool thing is, is you get to learn yourself and also be with each other. And if you've never done this together, it can feel really awkward. So we're going to sit down and be quiet and not say anything and breathe. That sounds weird. So get into it together and have at least a taste. And then you'll know if you want to continue. And I have all sorts of different packages at discounted prices. We can explore that. I try to customize it. Some couples even want to do a retreat. That's a little harder. We can't do those in person right now. And then I also have done classes with five to using five to 10 couples. And we just go through a series of each week for an hour and a half, two hours, and this would have to be online and we go through some of this stuff, so you can actually learn it. So those are various different ways. As I mentioned, I do have a YouTube channel. It's not got a lot on it, but it's got the humming on it and I'm going to be doing some more of this stuff on there. It's grace smack eight. My website is just my name and my last name is spelled M a C L E O d.com. Grace mccloud.com. It's all on there. And the best thing I would say is just if you want some help call me and let's talk and I'll listen and offer some suggestions and other resources. It's not all me. There's tons of other people out there that are doing this and just want you to love yourselves and love each other and have a beautiful life together. I just think this is so great. Cause like I said I think before we started recording, you know, we do all these like photo focus things or talking about DJs and catering and all these other things. But you know, at the end of the day, it's the two people. Right. And kind of all this other stuff. So I'm so glad that, and this will obviously not be the only one of these that we do, but we're really focusing on that as well, I think is great. Just because that's the most important, you know, I'm like the wedding vendors would like to think, but ultimately it is about, you know, the couple getting married and the two people involved in that. So thank you for putting this together and sharing your time and taking the time and putting together the notes and everything else. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Read. I love this. As I've mentioned in the earlier podcast, I'm fairly quiet in the background here in the Northwest. I've had big practices elsewhere, so I know how much people are looking for this stuff. They might not know that they're looking for it, but they're looking for something. So I'm just so grateful for this opportunity to share and have people get to know me and thank you for what you do read. It's fantastic. That's good. It says a, another episode of the best made weddings. And if you have questions for an upcoming episode, you can go to best meet videos.com/survey. And we have all the different categories and everything. Or you can send me an email, but I love just doing new things. And I thought this was a great topic this week. So I'm glad that we could discuss. Wonderful. Thank you. Thanks again.

Episode 14 - So are we posting photos right now?

(00:07):

Thank you guys all so much for joining today. I was going to say ahead of time last week we did our wedding pricing talk. And so I had a lot of thoughts and feelings going into that. And I don't have as many thoughts today. I'm really genuinely curious, kind of what you guys think. And I really don't, I'm not really swaying one way or another. Why don't we introduce everybody? And then we'll kind of talk about what we kind of the subject today, which is, you know, are we sharing photos right now? And I'll give a couple examples, but why don't Amy, why don't you say hi, and then we'll go around, introduce yourself and then we'll get into this.

(00:42):

I am Amy of Amelia Soper Photography. I'm your friendtographer. And I am based out of Woodinville and like everybody else, I'm not working that much these days. So that's, what's up and Jamie, I'm so glad that we could get you on one of these. Why don't you say hi and who are you? Hey, I'm Jamie Jamie Buckley Photography. I primarily shoot weddings, which is like a ghost town right now. So that's fun. I'm based in North Seattle, but I go everywhere because I'm relatively new to the state. So I'm like, let's go explore. And Jenny, I just saw you weekend before last. It was great to see you. And I know we will see each other again next weekend. So how are you doing? Yeah, I'm doing all right. I'm Jenny, Jenny GG photography. I am also a North Seattle girl.

(01:37):

And yeah, things have been pretty good, but I normally shoot weddings and portraits a lot more portraits lately. That's for sure. And yeah, we're excited to be here. Yeah. And so this is kind of a it, it's kind of a tough topic to even kind of quantify what we're talking about. And this might be a little bit more, I do try to keep this podcast. So a little more half and half with couples and stuff that they would like to hear versus like vendors. This might be a little more vendor centric today, but I definitely think the conversation is going to be worthwhile. Just the whole idea of, you know, sharing photos, sharing videos right now from the weddings for shooting and a couple of different circumstances come to mind. You know, we have weddings where people are not following the rules, you know, not practicing social distancing and masks.

(02:27):

You know, what, whether we doing with those photos and video people that are maybe kind of on the fringe line of following the rules. I know that I posted some social media stuff a couple of weeks ago from one of our weddings and God like the Instagram police were on me hardcore about, you know, like counting chairs in the ceremony photo kind of hardcore. Even though they were, you know, I thought really trying to follow the rules and then kind of the third situation. And this is what I've been talking a lot about lately is weddings that are following the rules. Like everything's legit, you know, ceremony only like the one Jenny and I had, you know, just getting ready, portrait ceremony, you know, everything by the books. But, but like, do we share those photos? Is that stuff that people in a year or two are gonna want to see in portfolios, right. Are they wanting to kind of reminisce about, you know, like days gone by when weddings had 500 people or whatever, so that's kind of where I'm at and I'm really kind of curious to hear where everybody's out here. First off, just general thoughts, Jenny to you first, just cause I just saw it most recently when I talk about these things, w what kind of comes to mind?

(03:35):

Well, I was just thinking about, you know, you were, you were making note about whether or not people want to see these images in a few years. I think people will. I think it'll be a lot of like, remember when, and, you know, and just as we see all these people saying, like, I remember in a, I think it was April and may I kept, I wanted to keep posting stuff and I felt weird, so they didn't have anything fresh. Then I kept like posting things that I would say, I miss this, I miss this part. I miss this part. And I kind of had like a theme going of like what I miss. So I think it's going to do the same on the flip, you know, because I think when we do go back to really large gatherings, I think that'll be great for, you know, in that people will get to have all their guests that they wanted and all that good stuff.

(04:22):

I do think there'll be a little bit of the, remember when it was just us from the couple and you know, all of that. So I am posting, I'm not blogging. I haven't blogged anything primarily because usually I use the blog to tell a story the day and the days have been. So, you know, I showed up with the officiant, we, you know, did their ceremony, we walked for 20 minutes and then I left, you know, like it's not really a blog thing, but I also don't want my couples. I used to blog every single couple and this year has you know, I haven't, so I don't want anybody to feel left out in a way if that makes any sense. But so I've been posting quite a bit on Instagram. And I've only gotten a few DMS with like, are you working?

(05:08):

Like, are you doing, is this now? You know? But I've been fortunate most of my couples canceled or rescheduled till 21. And I haven't had a lot of couples who've said to me, and I don't know how to say this properly, but it seems like there is a spectrum of people who are following all the rules, wearing a mask everywhere they go, you know, being aware of what the mandates are and working with it. And then there's this, you know, the other side of the pendulum is, you know, kind of throwing the bird to it and saying whatever. And, you know, I don't have a lot of those couples, if that makes any sense. Most of my couples are pretty interested in, in science. Gotcha.

(05:59):

Yeah. Good.

(06:02):

So yeah, it's kind of touch on what Jenny just said. I feel like Mo like most of the couples that I deal with are kind of very similar to me and that's my intention. And so they're like, this is real, let's take it seriously kind of thing. So most of my couples postpone to latch to next year the ones that are doing it this year are doing very, like, paired down, like most, yeah, most everyone that I've shot this year so far has just been literally the couple like their siblings or parents. So like most of them kind of have been doing that like bubble thing that people have been doing where, like, they're not they're self-contained, but it's not just one household kind of thing. So I'm okay with that. And so, yeah, they've all been following the rules and to speak on like sharing images. I heard a story where somebody got grasped on like, basically someone was blasting them on social media for doing a wedding when they shouldn't have been. And the reason they found out is because they downloaded the image on Facebook and looked at the metadata. So I'm like, okay, first of all, that pet person,

(07:24):

Well, I guess we all have time for everything right now. So, yeah.

(07:28):

But yeah, I kind of feel like now has that was the time that people have kind of show who they are. And so I'm just like, I'm not even going to give you ammunition. So all the images I've been sharing of just being out like couples just by themselves kind of thing. All the weddings I've done have been by the rules, but I've just been sharing. Cause usually when I share group ones, I'll share like a story about why I'm sharing it. And because it's kind of like jump in, jump out kind of thing for the group ones. I don't really feel like there's any stories coming out of it. So I've just been trying to tell stories of the couples and how they're like, usually we'll talk during the day of how they're dealing with COVID, etc. So just that kind of stuff, maybe. What do you think?

(08:19):

Yeah, all of the above you know, I, I have been blogging. I blog the three that I've done since since this hit one of the, did I blow up? Maybe I didn't love that one. Actually. I just posted a big kind of chunk and of images on on my Facebook page with kind of the, the details. And it was just, you know, about how it was very quick. It was in a church, everybody was masked. It was all by the rules and that was maybe two months ago. And then I had one, a couple of weeks ago with with Brianne who was a big rule follower, not Brianna, Andrea though pink blossom. And and I am so grateful for them because they were the ones that really were like, this is how it's going to be.

(09:16):

And if it's not this way, then we're leaving. So, you know, make your choice. And I blogged that wedding and it, we, it was a lot of back and forth. So like I blogged it and then I sent it to Brianne and I was like, what do you think? What, is there anything that I should switch? And she was like, well, I'm take this one out because it's got an extra place setting or, you know, whatever. And I was like, cool. So I think it's just communicating with you know, with others to see the best way to post stuff. But yeah, everything I've been posting is either been happy anniversary or or just the couple also I think that I posted one from the wedding I had a few weeks ago or maybe two months ago, the first time I had some lesbian wedding.

(10:04):

Yeah, yeah. That was awesome. They were so lovely. And they are these two cause they sent me a very cute she was so, so sweet to have these actually all written, which is very, very nice. But yeah, their wedding was great and they, everybody was distanced by family. They had box lunches. And this was while you could still have a reception. So this was pre that I haven't had anything. Since you weren't allowed to have a reception one August, I'm always curious about that. So the, the wedding that I had August 8th was originally going to be under the new rule. And then Inslee moved it to the 10th. And so we got away with, you know, that weekend being able to have have a reception and it was beautiful. It was really nice, but and I'm glad I was able to blog it cause the details were lovely and and people were good about masks and they had custom masks for everybody to, to grab, you know you know, you're talking about going, looking back and are people really gonna want to see that stuff?

(11:26):

And like Jenny said, I, I think that this is just and my couples again, like are like me. And so they don't take them tells too seriously and they kind of roll with the punches and the, those two ladies had custom masks made from their extra dress material. And I was joking that, you know, you have to save these like lace masks, put them in that hope chest, so your grandchildren will bring them out and wear them on their wedding day. Because remember when grandmas were, you know, these, these masks and you have this, like the antique new heirloom that is so weird that, you know, maybe in a hundred years, you'll be like, what was this even was happening with this? Like we look back on things or it's like, why was this even a thing? Well, whatever let's, you know, and it just kind of becomes tradition.

(12:22):

So I think that you have to embrace it new garter or something. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Where it's like, where did this? Yeah. Oh, we all do. It's the worst? Never another bouquet toss or garter. I would be a happy, happy human. But yeah, I think that I try to share, no one has DME, nobody nobody's mentioned anything that I have posted being inappropriate or anything. But it's also because I'm, yeah, I'm trying to post things that follow along. And I haven't shot anything since, other than families and headshots since the most recent restrictions went into place. So I haven't really had anything to worry about. Other than, yeah, just families.

(13:18):

It's tough because especially for videography and it's a little different than photo where, you know, I do really have to kind of have the whole day to kind of show. And you know, that's why, you know, early on, you know, I mean years ago I would sell, you know, and a lot of videographers, like they'll, they'll over they'll, over-deliver on lots of stuff just because we have to have the whole day. So like, Hey, maybe you only need us for a couple hours, but I mean, I really needed a portfolio, right? Like, I'll give you an extra couple of hours just so I can really cause you need these videos. Right. And that's kinda where I'm at now is like, I don't know, I'll follow up anything from this year, really, you know, website when I call it website worthy. I mean, just in terms of not that the day wasn't worthy or that the couple wasn't, but just, you know, it does have an a to Z, like Jenny was saying, you know, does it have a story what's going on there?

(14:09):

But I, but yeah, I had a wedding on Saturday that was going to be one that Brianne's couples, funny enough, Amy, that you mentioned that and they postponed, you know, the, the big celebration to next year. And they just, they hired me really last minute for like the ceremony and some of the getting ready, but even Brianne had messaged me on that wedding. Cause Chris, the photographer had posted like a white there. He had two daughters. So they posted like this family really cute family photo. And she had, you know, DME like, Oh yeah. So I'm excited to see what you shot. And they'll be sad that like, we can't show anything except the ceremony. And I was like, Oh, I didn't even, cause I hadn't even really planned on doing a lot with it except delivering it to them. But I was like, well, I don't even know.

(14:52):

And that again goes back to the whole question for everyone today. And in general, cause you know, we did, it was at their house and you know, we did get getting ready and there was nine people there. And then afterward we had, they had a dinner and I went home, but it was a it was a catered dinner, which I, I did have questions about, but it was a catered dinner at their house, but I didn't know. I was like, well this is out of the reception or not. I didn't know. And I, like I said, I hadn't even really thought that far ahead cause I wasn't going to do anything with it, but I didn't. I mean, what would you guys, would you, what, w what were your thoughts beyond that? Just where

(15:29):

Or sharing it or, or,

(15:31):

Yeah, just in general. I mean, would you be fearful of posting that if, if it was like a reception and I'm not saying like brand is wrong, I trust her in the safety issue of it. I mean, I'm just, I'm genuinely curious just cause I don't really know what the best way would be to proceed with that.

(15:46):

I mean, I probably wouldn't until all of this is passed, you know, and then you can go back and, and, and share it kind of, you know, without a date. It is what it is. I mean, it's, it's easier. I feel like with photos because it could be any time. I mean, it could be before, you know, maybe, you know, you don't say what day it was and you just share something vague about it. And maybe it was four months ago, you know, maybe it was okay to do it then. It's just about, you know, making sure that your ass is covered. Like I don't want to get flack for that, but at the same time if people are following the rules, like if you had that a video of a, a full wedding where everybody followed the rules, they were distanced, they wore masks.

(16:37):

I think that's something that couples would want to see to see how it is, can be done. Yeah. Because I think that the problem right now is that, you know, people are like, what does it even look like? And it doesn't look like, you know, your wedding, if you get married tomorrow is not going to look like the stuff that's in my portfolio. It's not gonna look like last year's wedding. It can't, it just isn't. And if you need it to, then you need to postpone it. There is, it's just like you were saying, Jenny, you know, there's this full spectrum of people who are, you know, screw it, I'm going to do what I want to do. This is my day. And then people who are like, why would we risk this, this, this seems so dumb. And a lot of my couples did that too.

(17:26):

They, you know, either kept their date and have paired it way, way down just to kind of an elopement and then move to next year or the year after. Yeah. And I think that that's the way to go. But I think that's important show what a day could look like. So you have an idea of what the differences are, you know, a wedding that was fairly full, you know, that was your as much as you could do. And the one that I posted that, that we just had I agree. It's kind of hard to tell the story of the day when it's so spotty, it's not quite the way it was. And I didn't really tell necessarily the story of the day. I told more of a story of like, this is how this is what we do now. This is, this is what a covert wedding is like, and this is how they rolled with it. And I think that it's more of showing what, what, what it can be, I guess, versus what you think it might be. And it's not. So I don't know. I think it'd be good to share something like that. If again, you had something that was fully by the books. Do you remember, what do you think about

(18:46):

So a couple of weeks ago, like the middle of August, I did a wedding and a couple of weeks before that they had, we were like back and forth thing on like the final timeline and the whole neuroception thing came into play. And I said, Hey, just heads up. I'm only going to be able to be there until the end of the ceremony. They were like, Oh, well, I thought that only applied to indoor weddings. And I was like, Nope, I adore weddings. Don't question me. I have to read about this stuff all day.

(19:19):

So they were like, Oh, okay, well, we'll take you as long as we can get you. And I was like, cool. And then I wrote up on the day and there were like a bunch of tables sitting in the corner. And I was like, Oh, what are those far? And they were like, Oh, those are fire resection. I was like, I didn't hear that by, by some of like their plan. And basically once we did the ceremony, they removed all the chairs and then they brought in individual tables. Like, I think they were like 10 feet apart or something. And each table was far a household and everyone was made to sit down and then they weren't allowed to mingle. And they told me this as I was leaving, as they were assigning the registry on one of the tables, I was like, okay, well for like liability reasons, I didn't hear you telling me this.

(20:04):

So I'm leaving, I'm not capturing this. And I didn't, but at the same time, I was like, thinking in my head, like the way they are doing this, I actually don't see an issue with this because the each table had like sealed food. They had bought like, so it wasn't like, you know, offensive buffet. It was literally like Lunchables. But each table had sealed food and seal drinks on it. Each table was its own household. None of the households were bigger than I think the biggest was like five, including three children. And they were all far enough apart. So I'm like, this is one of those instances where there's these, like what, what's the word? Wide-Ranging like rules, like one size fits all, just doesn't work. And you're just like screwing over like so many industries when, but at the same time, like on the other hand, I'm totally like for this because not everyone is following the rules and that's kind of the problem with these kind of things. As I was leaving, they had like finished setting up and like everyone was sitting at their tables and like, the lighting was so pretty. And I was like, Oh, it's so long. But I was like, Nope, not doing it.

(21:27):

So, you know, like if we're, if we're allowed to shoot a hundred people in a church for a ceremony, 25 people in our backyard with their tables, 10 feet apart, I mean, I am very much order of all of these rules. I very much you know, hold myself accountable in that way. And yet that seems ridiculous to me, you know, that just does not make sense. And I, I feel like it's, it's also ridiculous to ask that we be deputized in this way to have to, that's not part of my job and I don't charge for that. And I, I tell people that, you know, I am doing every, I've been doing everything I can. I've been distancing myself. I wear a mask every time I go out, I sanitize my gear before and after I take my temp every time before I leave the house, I am not, I don't, I've not been deputized. I'm not going to police other people. I just, you know, I mean, I wouldn't stay in shooter reception either because that's pudding. You're basically saying it's okay. But I had a, I had a wedding a couple of weeks ago that was 20 people on a boat. Everything was outdoors, everyone was separated, but one of the dads wore his mask on his ear the whole time. What am I going to do? I'm not there to spank him. That is not my job. You know,

(22:54):

We've seen enough videos on Facebook of people getting like spit on and punched and stuff for telling someone to wear a mask. I'm not about that. Like, if they want to be stupid, that's, what's the Darwinism.

(23:07):

Well, it's hard because like, we're talking about sharing images and you know, if, if people are following the rules, that's great, but I want to be able to share that image. And now can't because some idiot has his mask half off. Let's just annoys me. You can have a beautiful photo and everything is great. And then there's one person I'm like, are you seriously? I'm going to Photoshop that mask on your face. It's ridiculous. But truthfully, to what degree would you be held responsible for that mass not being properly? I mean, you know, yeah. Well, and it's, yeah, there's so many variables. I understand

(23:46):

So much of it doesn't make sense. And so much of it as a blanket rule because that line has to be drawn somewhere and, you know, there's this small group of people that ruin it for everyone and it's, we all pay the price because people can't just follow the rules. We wouldn't be here if people have been following the rules and going back to plugging your last podcast read when you were talking to Anne and Kat you know, the, the new rules with makeup where there, I posted a picture on on my stories. And I think on Facebook last week, because we were all in the studio and doing headshots. So we had our person that was there to have her head shots, done me to photograph them to makeup artists. And and the second person who was having makeup done for another shoot somewhere else. And they were full PPE. I mean, they have the face shield, they have mask gloves, everything. And so they're fully, you know, masked up and everything. And I have this picture cause I was like, it's so great. We're all in here. And people are distanced and the PPE and everything. And then cat reminds me that this rule just went into effect that if you are, you know, in a salon, you're having your hair done or anything, you have to wear a mask. Is it super loud because,

(25:10):

Sorry, I was immediately everyone else. I was trying to figure it out. I was like, is it Amy doing that? Sorry,

(25:15):

Plane going over. But but the, so I posted that and cat reminded me that yeah, they're supposed to wear a mask. So the actual law is that if you're having your makeup done, you need to wear a mask, which is so what's it's so stupid. It's so, so stupid. And so like, things like that, that are these full blanket that, that takes it to another level because it's either, you know, you, you tie people's hands when you're like, will you, well, you can work. Your industry is able to work, but you have to wear a mask. What? Like, it doesn't make any sense. It cancels it out. So either don't let them do anything at all, or like make, make the rule different for, I mean, salons are different than, than makeup. Artists. Hair is different than makeup. It's just, it doesn't make sense. But I also understand, I mean, I think a lot of people think, and I also think that people who are making these rules, aren't talking to the people in the industry that these rules are for. And there are a lot of microcosms, right? I mean, I get it, but it's just, it doesn't seem like they're talking to anybody who is actually dealing with this.

(26:31):

Well, it's tough. And like Virginia was saying about, you know, be deputized or whatever they do it, you know, we my second mat, my, you know, second whatever team they had a wedding last. And I don't, I wasn't there. I don't, I don't, I think there was something with the guest count that it didn't, it didn't really follow like all of the rules. And I know that photographer and we had talked cause I was originally going to be there with him. And then I ended up having a different booking and the photographer very well known, you guys would all know this photographer was supposed to do it with me and they decided to step down, you know, they said, we don't, we're going to, and I don't know if they forfeited all the money, you're part of the money or, you know, portion or whatever, but they didn't work.

(27:20):

And the you know, and that's obviously that's their right. And I just, I don't, like I said, I wasn't there and I don't, I, where do we draw this line of, like you said, of policing or whatever, but you know, the vibe I got from the bride and the mom trying to plan everything in the two or three weeks from when they decided not to do it until the wedding, it was, well, the photographer that bailed our bailed photographer, you know, the photographer that left us, like all these things. And I'm like, yeah, I don't really think that's quite how that worked out, you know? And, but it's like, what do you, what do you say? Right. And so it's, it's tricky. It's like you said, you know, we're, we're kind of put in this position and I'm like, well, I don't, I mean, that's up to you

(28:03):

And the bad guy, if you do it, and you're the bad guy, you, if you don't. Yeah,

(28:07):

Really. Cause at that point, right? Like if I would have said no, or if we would have said no, you know, unless Inslee wants to give me a check for, you know, the money that you know, we'd be getting going there. Yeah. It's I, I'm the terrible person to them, to the, you know, I've ruined their day. They can't have a videographer or we're filming it. And then it's, you're getting all this criticism, you know, it's like, it feels like it's a no win. Does anyone else kind of feel that way sometimes?

(28:33):

Oh yeah. Yeah, sure. Constantly. Yeah. I mean, when I think of like the whole spectrum or whatever, you know, I remember in April, everyone was just like bashing each other. How dare you even consider working sessions? Those were the worst thing. I had a former bride who had a baby and she really wanted photos of this kid in the first two weeks. And so I came to their house and I shot them through the window. I did the same thing for a maternity session. Yeah. I shot him further patio door. Like nobody can yell at me for that, but I'll tell you, people yelled at me for that. I got, yup. Yup. I got the, I got the same emails that people were getting over the porch sessions. You know, you're ruining it for us. We're never going to get to go back to work. You're you know, you're and I'm damned if you don't, it's just, yeah. I wore a mask and shot them through double pane glass. I think we're living

(29:42):

In a time when, you know, a lot of people are having all the feelings. Right. I don't know about anyone else, but I, since March have been dealing with like all kinds of just like constant anxiety and like, I think a lot of people are dealing with that and some people's way is to act don't they say harsh things to people on the internet that they wouldn't say to their face, but of course that's true, but the internet in general, but I think right now, you know, someone who's missed some, you know, maybe they didn't get to go for an anniversary dinner or a birthday dinner, and then they see someone else posting that and they're just like, see, read at that person. And it's like, okay. But that person didn't do, like, if that person was like, you know, following the rules and whatever, the person didn't do anything wrong.

(30:31):

Why just don't be mad at them because you missed out kind of thing. Yeah. Well that was like when we had the, the, the one where I posted and they were I can't remember if I said before we were recording or not, but you know, where they, I, they were counting the chairs, you know, I posted like a photo of the receipt, just like, I'm not even talking to real fuck. Like, I'm just talking to the cell phone, like, you know, boom, whatever. And you know, I get these, these get DMS or whatever you know, on Instagram. And I'm like, yeah, this is at bell Harbor. Do you really think like bell Harbor international conference center is like sway in the rules for Patty and bill or whatever. Like they don't care. You know what I mean? Like, do you really think that they're like, well, you know, the rule is 30 people, but you know, we're going to let him have 40 people.

(31:19):

I mean, like, they're not gonna, you know, they're not gonna have anything. I was like, man, that was probably the safest wedding I'd been at. You know, they had hand sanitizer everywhere. Yeah. Security guards keeping it. I was like, I felt, you know, really? Yeah. They have like well, you know, bell Harbor is kind of always sketchy anyway, just with like, you go on the rooftop and people are walking by and like all that, but yeah. They have like guy at the gate guy at the door, they had like all the other rooms sealed off, like just the bathroom and then like beginning ready rooms. Like I felt super safe. You know? I didn't feel like any problem at all, but yeah. Then they're like, Oh, well, yeah, actually there's 40 chairs in your photo. And I'm like, well, you know, they, I think they just put all the chairs under 40 bucks. That was what the retort, you know, I wasn't smart enough to have that retort, but that is what the retort should have been right. Is, yeah. There's not that many asses in the seats. There's just not many chairs. So it doesn't work. So you don't get that weird. Yeah. Grab one, wants to put his cane somewhere, whatever. I mean, it's ridiculous. So aren't those 30 people supposed to socially distance. So you don't want to just have big gaps between seats. You have 50 chairs. So you have one person.

(32:31):

Yeah. Nobody's thinking about the aesthetic tier setup. No, the, yeah, the first one I did back in, it was just a ceremony that was the live stream. And they did that where they have like two and then two, you know, and then I got the comments. Well, that looks like, that looks terrible. Why would they do it? I'm like, okay, well, you can't win. Like, you know, it's never going to be it's either. It looks weird or there's too many chairs.

(32:55):

Sorry, 20, just lay off, man. Let me have my pumpkin spice and my Halloween just simple pleasures, man, go grab a drink and leave me alone. I mean, yeah, I got it

(33:12):

Just real quick. I got to share, this is totally unrelated, but, and God bless her. I don't even know if she's listening, but God bless. We had a bride. They got married two years ago. Private family property, a family member also got married, same private, whatever, like two weekends ago. And I wasn't out either Matt shot two years ago. And then I just edited the abuse. But like I deliver the video and to, to the one and then they both follow on Instagram. And so she, you know, the PR the original bride messages me and is like, so not only did they steal my ceremony spot and they stole my videographer and I was like, you got to be kidding me. Like this is 2020. Like, you have to be kidding me. But like this family is feuding and answered the, and apparently I find out

(34:00):

I was going to say that was dope.

(34:01):

No, there were like, there was a serious, like few that like the one was upset that the other was upset that they were using the thing. And then they, you know, they took it

(34:10):

Huge compliment to hire this, you know,

(34:14):

Like I go, could you just give me a break here?

(34:16):

So that's Amy said like, you know what, all the feelings, well, you should've referred me and you didn't. So maybe we should bring this back to you.

(34:30):

I just was like, you got to give me a break. Like, I'm just trying to make money. Like

(34:34):

I love Jamie always has the comeback. Jamie's always got the words, but in person I'd be like, Oh, you just give me a minute, half an hour later. Well, my, I have another question, I guess, for the photographer. Well, for all of you, so you shoot a wedding. There's some people that don't follow the rules maybe, but maybe there's no reception, but there's people not wearing masks or whatever enough that you're comfortable shooting it for them and not leaving immediately when you get there or something. What happens when the couple shares their images? Do you want them to tag you in it? I mean, that's, what if they tag you and it's a photo that, you know, it isn't I just, I don't know. I haven't had that problem myself, but I kind of wonder about like what, what you guys would feel comfortable with. Am. I have been

(35:38):

Having the last talk before the ceremony with, or before the day with my couples. And I've, since it's been in ceremony only I've said to them, like, I am only going to be here till like the end of the ceremony. That is it. Because, like I said, someone downloaded a photo, looked at the metadata. So it was after the time when we were shut down and put them on blast and I'm like, reception photos are not like, I don't really like them anyway. Like I'm more about the, of portraits and they're getting ready and stuff and all that. So I'm, I don't feel like I'm missing out on much. And I try and tell them that they're not really, which is probably not great because, you know, it makes it sound like we're underselling ourselves, overselling ourselves. But I, I would not want them to, because like I said, how many people nowadays go viral for bad stuff versus going viral for good stuff.

(36:36):

They'll tell 10 people that you had a bad experience. Only three people. You had a good experience. 10 people we'll share an image of you breaking the rules. Only three people will share all the following the rules. I don't think it's worth it for like, Hey, look at them following the rules, you know, just, you look at an image and either it's not appropriate or it doesn't matter. 2020 is apparently about tearing people down and not lifting anyone up. I saw a great video of a guy in his cat today. That was really sweet. So there's that genuinely thinking about this, about being tested? I have a lot of feelings about this. I would say, I honestly feel like I need more specific information as to what the state is expecting me to do in those scenarios. If another photographer wants to flip me a, you know, attitude, that's fine.

(37:32):

You know what I mean? I can roll with that. But as far as like actually being held accountable I, I feel like in any circumstance, I mean, if I took a picture of somebody smoking on a crack pipe, is that my responsibility, like I'm there to document and I will document your event as we discussed and how you've asked. And as long as you feel safe. Yeah. I mean, I said that sort of as an extreme note, but like, you know, I feel like at some point, if this actually became an issue, if I was actually taken to task with the authorities for something on a particular image, I don't see how it could be reasonably I, how I could be reasonably held responsible for that behavior. If I am 10 feet away, if I amassed, if I am doing, if I am following the mandates that were rolled out for my line of business, I should not be held responsible for what I capture in that way. Now, if I'm, you know, if I'm worried up against people and I'm, you know, like it's an obvious that I'm a participant in the behavior, that's different, you know, if I'm holding my own crack pipe, so to speak. But I I would, I find with people posting their photos, you know, check me outside, man. I don't know.

(38:59):

What I don't understand is like, you know, like you were saying, like any, any photo journalism right now, anything that you see online, any photo journalism, like that's all photography is photography. Like it's how, you know, how can photo journalists take photos of what's going on right now? And that's not, that's fine, but we can't document what I don't, I don't understand where that line is. That doesn't, it doesn't make any sense. I mean, nothing. What I meant when I said in the beginning, I would need to really know what is the governor say? That is my job, you know? Cause if it's my job, okay, then alright, you know, I'll I'll limit what content can be seen, but that just feels like that just feels outside the scope of what I've been hired for.

(39:43):

Yeah. Like when I've been doing the like group part of the day, I've been saying to my couples, like, I'm not gonna tell you like, cause normally I would do like, you know, right. And groom, bride and groom best. What's the maid of honor, et cetera. I've been saying to them, I am not going to give you any groupings. I am leaving it up to your discretion, what groupings you want. And I'm going to trust that you think that these people are safe to do so. And I leaving it all 100% up to you. I'm not forcing you to put people together. Like I was at a wedding and the police go and the videographer was like, okay, everyone get closer together. And I was like, no, don't tell, don't tell people to do that. I'm like, I literally was like, if you want to, if you want to, and everyone did, but I was like, I'm not. Cause normally I'd be like, alright, everyone, bunch out, get close. Now it's like, okay, whoever wants to be there, be there. Like Jenny said, like Jenny said, like, are we responsible for that? Like

(40:51):

That doesn't seem reasonable. That doesn't seem, I would imagine any conversations. Unfortunately it just does not seem reasonable to put that kind of pressure. I mean, it's bad. It's intense enough that the wedding planner has that pressure, but I get it. They're there to organize. They're there to, you know to, to lay it out so to speak. And but yeah, I mean, I really appreciate it. The other wedding that you and I did recently read where, you know, even though it was just the couple and me and Reed and the officiant, we all together as a group, had a conversation about how we were gonna set up that ceremony, how we were going to set it up so that the couple would be in shade, how the officiant maneuver back

(41:34):

And forth and not feel encroached upon. And I feel like people need to see that too a little bit.

(41:44):

Yeah. That conversation went real quick. It went wherever Jenny wants. She's got it. That's how that went. I went, that's fine. That's good. Smart man. That's a good, we're good.

(41:57):

Well, to live by. I really do. It's fine. We're good, Jenny.

(42:04):

Yeah. Jenny then Ann Marie, and then like me way down here. I was like, whatever you guys want. And then yeah, that's fine.

(42:12):

Amy, go ahead to talk about quickly. Just kind of what Jenny was saying about, you know, the governor, I'm saying what is right. And what's not, we're talking about like sharing these photos because we could get blow back for it. How actually enforceable is that, that like, you know, somebody, when you go to a wedding, take a photo of a group that was like, I dunno, 10 people. So, you know, cause it's supposed to be less than five and a household or whatever per say, we took a photo that broke the rules, said couple uploads it to Facebook actually legally enforceable is that we could get in trouble for that. Like actual like people in the photo, not the person took the photo. Well, so that's what we're standing, you know, six feet away. Obviously you can't prove that you're wearing a mask, but I'm sure most of us are, every County is in a different phase.

(43:15):

Right. And even like Snohomish County, the sheriff of Snohomish County declared that they were not going to enforce it. So I mean, what am I going to do something more than the sheriff? I mean, if the sheriff of that County is not enforcing the rules and how it can I be held accountable as long as I'm doing, as long as I'm doing my part you know, in, in the rules or whatever. And then unfortunately it feels like it then comes back down to, okay, we can follow all the rules all day long, but all it takes is for one other person not follow the rules and we're stuck in this even longer. Yeah. Well the, the, the thing that I was going to say is that it's not just the onus of that responsibility. Isn't just on us. It's on the couple as well. So it behooves them. I don't get to use that word very often. So when I hooves them to follow the rules when posting as well, because if they post a photo of their wedding where it is clearly not social distance, the very first person that is going to come at them is going to be them like it's, you know, people are going to come out. So I mean, it's on them as well. So it definitely is in their best interests were normally

(44:32):

Ignored in that situation. Anyway. That's why I'm not as worried about. And I know I asked like how you guys felt about, you know, people tagging you and stuff. And I mean, that's why I'm not as worried about it because yeah, that, that's something that they have to answer for as well. It's not just us. So

(44:51):

You were talking about, you know, how enforceable and how, whatever. I mean, I just don't think it is. I mean, it's the same thing I've been dealing with, like reading all the PPP stuff and the unemployment. And you know, I know a lot of you guys have seen me posts online, turn out, you know, we're trying to figure out what people about,

(45:07):

Particularly every Sunday, because we post about it. So I finally put it on my own, but did keep her to my bank account. You have taught me enough. You've trained me well.

(45:17):

But my thing is with that is, you know, I've been talking with, you know, like Mike and a lot of photographers, and it's the same thing with the enforceability, with these photos and the, you know, the same question goes for like all this forgiveness with everything. That's kind of the line I'm trying to draw here. I'm like, I don't think they're going to be able to figure out any of this, like all the unemployment and forgiveness and like the Washington state of employment and getting the 300 to get the PPP and getting all of this stuff. Like, I think we're all kind of good. Like I just don't think they're ever going to have the paper trail, like go back and be like, okay, well that one week in August, you know, did you, did you also get PPP and unemployment that week? And wait, did you book a family session that like, I don't think that's ever going to happen and it's the same way.

(45:58):

And most of us aren't trying to like, you know, scam it sometimes you're like, I mean, you know, you, you plug in the amount of money minus your costs and you have to kind of think, right. Well, what would my costs have been for, for, you know, this, this portion of what I did or, or whatever. And I just ballpark it and hope it's fine. Like I'm not trying to scam, you know, any extra money, but like sometimes it's not quite right. And you just kind of cross your fingers that it all kind of, even out in the end.

(46:26):

Exactly. I mean, but that's just my point when he goes to all of this photo stuff, like genuinely, I mean, they're never going to track down and be like, well, you were in sketch County on August 12th. And that, that when the wedding had this, I mean, I just don't think we're ever gonna, I mean, I just think the I think we've given it a lot more thought today than probably they have the governor's office. You know what I mean? But like, sorry, but honestly, I mean, I just don't think there's any way, like you said, if the Sheriff's not going to be enforcing it you know, who is, and, and it's funny, the one thing I was going to say too is I've just gotten so much more lax about the whole thing, just in terms of worrying about it coming back on me.

(47:04):

Like, I remember back in March when it was like the serious lockdown and we got called to do a video of, it was like a housing development. And so I was like, well, you know, I think this falls under like the real estate, which is allowed and like, you know, I emailed the governor and like got, or the, the office, you know, and got like the decision, you know, and have the writing and like we were plotting, okay, well now it's just going to be me and the real estate agent. Okay. That's two people. Okay. You know, trying to follow all this different stuff. And now I'm like, I don't care. Like, it's up to the couple, like, I've just, I've gotten so lax in the last five months about it because I'm like, what did that get us back in March or April? It just kind of got us a poop salad, you know, compared to now, I mean, it didn't, there was no benefit that came to that than just not making money. I mean, I know that's terrible.

(47:53):

And the more we hear about what, you know, I saw a report that was saying that six feet was actually an arbitrary number that was thrown out kind of early on. And that it's actually like 20 feet if you're really going to try and eliminate all like droplets and what not. And so, you know, I think as long as you are putting your best foot forward, doing the best you can to, you know, to, to keep yourself safe and keep others safe. You know, I mean, I feel like if I wear a mask, I'm keeping you safe from me. And that I think my liability should end there in that sense, you know, like people have that same respect for you by wearing a mask to keep you safe, you know, but I certainly am not gonna mandate it. You know, I've been telling my couples who are scared that I'm going to show up to their wedding, take one, look, and then turn around and walk away.

(48:47):

I've had a few couples that we have a wedding this weekend actually read it. And I have a wedding this weekend. And that was one of their first questions is we want you to be happy. We don't want to do anything to upset you or to, you know, potentially affect your coming. And I was like, Whoa, reel it back. That is not what you need to be focusing on. You have to be focusing on your own health and the health of your guests and family. I'm good. I'm taking care of myself. And you know, I mean, what are you w I was like, well, tell me exactly what you're talking about here. You know, what am I having to like, make a decision about? But when it really just came down to was there, because they're following the rules, their concern was that there's the potential, a few guests that show up might not given their age range and sort of that like spring break mentality kind of thing that we've seen.

(49:36):

And so, and they were acknowledging it and just being very upfront about it. And I was like, I am not going to have a, you know, an air horn where I nail each person that, you know, drops their maths, or that's not my job. I said, I might distance myself a little bit more. You know, I told them, I'm like, I might back off. I might not, you know what I need, I'm certainly not going, if a group of people start dancing, I'm not going to go take photos of that in it. Like I would on a normal dance floor, but, you know, I don't even know what my point was, but, sorry.

(50:10):

Well, they asked me, you know what I said, tell me whenever genuine, She's cool with it. We're fine with it. We'll be there.

(50:22):

Oh, you don't want to do that. My friend, no

(50:28):

Stoned all the time. Jamie was out. Jamie was so funny with the writing. Damn that's like there used to be arrested, whether it's still as a wrestler, Chris Jericho used to have this gimmick and he would have, it would be the list of Jericho. And if like, if you offended him, he'd be like, you just made the list and you never wanted to be on the list that going to go buy a Slingshot to the, to the to the wedding kit. Yes. Winding down here, any, I feel like this has been good. A lively discussion, any final thoughts? Concerns, comments. I know that there's not a lot of answers, but I do. I, I do get feedback from people that they do find these cathartic, not only to be on the round tables, but also to listen to the round table. So I do think even if we don't necessarily have answers, I think that there's just good to be had from, you know, saying things out loud and hearing other's opinions that are similar or dissimilar from your own.

(51:27):

So I do think these are helpful, but any, any kind of final thoughts or feelings about anything today? I would just say like, if you happen to see some mom posting a photo on Instagram, just give them some grace. Like we all said, you don't know when that photo was taken. You don't know the circumstances. All those people could live in the same household. It's 2020, and the economy that we live in, we're probably going in the direction of living in communes now. So you don't know that those 30 people don't live in the same house, but also I just learned last week about these things called bubbles, where I have like five neighborhood neighbors and separate houses who only see each other and therefore are technically a 15 person call me in. So you don't know what the circumstances are. So just give people some grace, especially the photographer, you know, it's all about us.

(52:26):

Well, it's an echo that we Dorothy was at a bachelor at like a four people. Distant. All of it. Believe me. It was like months of discussion, all the things, but they read this like a little get away. And I had posted this photo of like the Brown, the party at this wedding I was at. And it was like 12 people or whatever. And her friend goes, why can't believe for you to though? I didn't like that. That's crazy. I can't believe. And I'm like, Dorothy, that was like two thirds of the wedding. Like it was that. And then there was like both mother and father's like, that was it. Like they, you know, so just because you saw 15 people in the bridal party or 12 or whatever, 20 people like that literally was two thirds of the wedding. So like they still were following the rules, you know? So you just, like Jamie said, you just can't know just instantly like, well that's whatever people like that has to be against the rules. And you don't know, like, we, like you were saying, like, you don't know what County they're in, you know, and maybe their County allows for a little bit more, you know? Yeah. Also I saw someone who is a local

(53:26):

Photographer post, a photo that they take in, I think it was in like Louisiana or Texas or something where rules, what are rules. And it was literally like a 30 person bridal party. And they posted it and people here were like, Oh my God, what are you doing? And they were like, no, no, it wasn't here. So I have to say that I really appreciate having it, getting a chance to just talk to a couple of people. Cause I have, I have in all honesty, been slightly afraid of the online groups and I don't do well with that kind of, you know, I just, I don't have the nervous system for it or something, you know, I just, I I'm too interested in optimism and things like that. So but I, I really appreciate sort of the experience since March, how we've developed.

(54:22):

I feel like maybe it's just our area, but it seems like people are getting just far more savvy and more in control of their own safety and their own. You know what I mean? Like I remember like two months ago I wore a mask somewhere and I spelled weird because people kept staring at me. Like I was weird and I remember coming home and being like, okay, wait, there really is a pandemic. Right? Like I'm not insane. Like this is like, and, and, and now when you go out, you know, not two months later, people look at you weird if you're not wearing one. And so we're holding it, you know what I mean? As a society, I feel like it's getting better and better. And this sounds like a virus we're going to have to contend with for a long time. So got to figure it out. We got to still have weddings cause I don't want to do anything else. So, you know, so I'm willing to do whatever I can do, but I, I want to work. Yeah.

(55:15):

I'm a fat. So we almost booty do from this round table, but then we were happy that you decided to join casserole I'm T

(55:23):

Well here, hold on me. I'm going to bring Ferguson over. She, she looks like a hot mess cause she woke up from her nap. Yes. Cause we're so angry because she has three new brothers and they're the worst. The cutest kittens. I'm so ha you don't want a lot of people have emailed me or message and just said like, thank you. I look forward to seeing your kittens every day. And it's nice that that's, that they are bringing other people joy because they, they bring me scratches and I'm not always joy. So I put that you seriously need to get a couple of baskets and do some like joking newborn things, swaddle them and like pose them. And they're almost, they're almost too big for that now. They're like, well, we always joke that they're like, I call them the autos and they are like, mom, watch me do this, watch me do this. Like every time do anything, I want

(56:24):

To yell because that's what I feel like. They're just like jumping off the walls and doing their they're insane. But Fergie made an appearance in in that last podcast. So I had to bring her in. She's so angry with me right now. Yeah, I mean, this is something that we have to live with and it is really nice to talk to other people that are that are, I mean, this community is all in the same boat and I am appreciative that we are as a, as a wedding community in this area, I feel like a lot of people are trying as hard as they can to get us back to, you know, where, where we're at and try to help each other out. And, and that's the thing that, one of the things that I really love about this community is that, you know, while there may not be as much business now, there is still business for all of us and it needs to be, you know we all have to be there for each other. I mean, that's we are not getting, we, you're definitely not getting through this if we're not all in it together. And Jenny, I agree like it's about optimism, man. Like who has time for like it's too, that drama is exhausting. I got enough crap to think about. I'm not even playing fantasy football this year because I don't want something else to think about. It's exhausting. Don't get me wrong. I do sit there and read the comments with my popcorn, for sure. But the Janet Jackson.

(57:56):

Yeah. It's just, it's, it's hard. And, and I think what Jamie said is exactly it, like, just give people, grace, give them the benefit of the doubt. Like, don't be the first person to jump on somebody. And if you really have a problem with something, maybe reach out and say, Hey, this made me feel uncomfortable. I know that sounds like, Oh, use your words, but whatever, like this respectful, comfortable, you know, can you explain this for me or you, if this was all correct, you might want to just throw that in the description really quick, you know, throw something in there to kind of explain why, you know, I know this looks like whatever, but this was this and blah, blah, blah. Like this is the magic of photography is being able to capture it where you think it's this way, but it's actually all by the rules, you know?

(58:43):

I think that it's just, nobody has the answers and everybody wants the answers. And it's hard being an hour, like in a position of authority with somebody's wedding, especially if they don't have a planner where your couples look to you just to say, well, well, when can we do this? And what can, and that's like eaten, I don't know. I don't have any more answers than you do. And I know that I'm the professional here, but this is not my purview. It's another big word. I just don't. Yeah. I feel for everyone right now. Really?

(59:15):

Yeah. Except people that crap talk, other people posting them photos. I don't know.

(59:23):

Well, this has been great. I really appreciate it. Like I said, this wasn't like I'm the most finite or you know, defining topic today to cover. But I think you guys all kind of got my juice and I think that this was a really worthwhile discussion. So thank you guys so much. Again Amy Soper, Jamie Buckley and Jenny GG, and we'll, we'll post everything down below. I so appreciate it and I hope you guys all stay safe and hopefully I'll see Jenny before this episode airs. So we'll have a great time and I'll hope to see you guys all soon. Thanks.

Episode 13 - Talking About Pricing

(00:07):

Well, if it's any indication from all the private messages I got on the group chat today, this is going to be a fiery conversation today. I'm very excited. It seems like everybody is excited to talk about the big pricing word. And I know some of you were thinking and you know, there's talk to photographers all the time that say, you know, Reid, you just, you charge what you need to charge, let the market go where it is. And you just, you know, that's not the client for you. And if that's what you feel, that's awesome. This is probably not going to be the podcast for you today. You know, I do think pricing is important. And if you don't, you know, if you, I totally respect that. And I, I'm going to have a wonderful conversation with antonyms and cat st. John coming up later this week about all the new makeup regulations. So if that is the podcast for you, and then this will not be the one for you. So but I wanted to talk about pricing today. Let's go around and introduce everybody. And then we'll kind of talk about what spurred this whole thing off. Alan, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself and we'll go around. Sure. I'm Alan like I am a wedding, DJ and Puget sound. DJ is my company name and Jen.

(01:14):

Hi, I'm Jenn Tai from Jennifer Tai Photo Artistry. I'm a wedding photographer. Yeah. In Seattle.

(01:22):

And Irene was just on a two weeks ago talking about micro weddings. Welcome back. Who are ya?

(01:30):

I'm happy to be here again. Reid love, hanging out with you.

(01:32):

Awesome. Well, thanks guys, you know, some weeks and it is we're, you know, we're trying to produce this week to week. Now this is week 13 episode 13 of this and trying to figure out topics every week. And sometimes, you know, I'm trying to figure out, okay, what's going on with COVID or what's up with whatever. And then some weeks it just kind of slaps me in the face. And I woke up yesterday in a, in a online group, looking through everything on Facebook, and it's a, it's billed as a, as like a support group for, you know, brides and grooms and people planning, weddings. And I saw this post and I don't want to get too much into the specifics, but just to kind of, well, I, I do actually kind of want to go through it a little bit and that'll kind of be what spurs all this today.

(02:11):

And this has videographer you know, special 50% off and, you know, right off the bat, they're talking about, you know, they know that COVID hit a lot of people are struggling and so they want to offer 50% off their services across the board. And so, you know, I have a problem with that just, and we'll get into all of this about, you know, the COVID thing. And this includes, you know, a five minute highlight video, eight hours, coverage, drone, coverage, valves, and speeches, and the final video, and then a four week turnaround. So I think I sent this to Irene Jen, what do you, what would you think the, the, the pricing on it on the package like that eight hour coverage, drone highlight video, kind of a standard, you know, Seattle videography package.

(02:49):

Oh my God, that sounds like a 10,012,000 thing to me, but that's because I know how hard is it's way harder than photography, you know? Well, so this, this was her second time

(03:03):

Seven Hundred and $50 plus travel

(03:06):

And, and, and the reason why and people, you know, and we don't want to get in, it's not supposed to be a shaming thing today. We're going to get into all of this. Right.

(03:14):

We had our drone guy come out last weekend. He is a phenomenal drone guy. He works for hoarders. When he's in town. I use him for weddings. You know, I pay him like 500 bucks for, you know, like two hours of drone stuff. So it just, it just to put that in perspective, you know, 750 for whatever, you know, 500 for that. So you know, and I reached out to this guy and I said, wow, that's, you know, that's kinda low. And basically his response and, and this is when we'll toss it to the panel. I get a lot there's enough work for everybody. Leave it alone. You know, I'm trying to, I'm trying to get my thing. So Irene, you know, and I messaged you about this too. What do you think about that when it's just this like well, there's enough business for everybody. Let me do what I want to do.

(03:54):

Yeah, well, there's a lot of people getting married still, even in the midst of COVID, but that doesn't mean that you're really putting your best foot forward there. If I was a bride or groom or a couple, and I saw something like that, my first thought would be, there's a catch. This person is a mattress sales men, and they're about to go out of business, you know, or there's something, there's something going on there that doesn't feel right. Like that kind of discount really raises a lot of red flags for me on the quality that I'm going to get and the service that I'm going to get, how can they do that and afford to feed their family is my first thought.

(04:30):

Jim, what do you think about that kind of hearing this for the first time?

(04:32):

I agree. I agree. Yeah, it's, it sounds fishy, you know and definitely agree with all of that.

(04:43):

And what do you, as, as kind of a bystander,

(04:46):

How often in life do you hear the phrase you get, what you pay for, how often in life have you heard that I've found that to be true, right? You are not going to get a Lamborghini for $500. And I think if I'm a couple looking at wedding vendors would I want to shop for is, is value and integrity. And if somebody comes in with a price, that just seems too good to be true. There should be some big questions about why that is why

(05:24):

It's still though. There's still prevail all the time, I guess. And I wish if we knew the answers, we wouldn't have these questions, but why is it still, the people think that they're going to get, you know, caviar dinner for a, like a McDonald's budget? What does that saying? Right. Yeah.

(05:38):

I think if they know, they know the price of caviar, the problem here is not a lot of people know the price of videography, you know? And I think most people, when they are starting to shop, you know, they haven't done your research on anything like, wow, seven 50 and they say that that's what it costs, you know, or maybe yeah. And they were like, Oh yeah, that sounds like it's, it's doable, you know, and that kind of sets the tone for it. And that's when our work is like kind of reeducating. Everybody is hard from there. You know, if you, if they see that, I think that's what I think they just don't know better clients. Right. I agree with Jennifer, like so many people are doing this for the first time and they come into looking at wedding prices and they've already got sticker shock because they've never planned a wedding before.

(06:28):

They've never thought about the cost of all of these extravagant things that they want to do. And they probably have a budget in mind. And then they have to do a lot of renegotiating with how that's going to work out that their dreams. So when they hear something's going to be 50% off, they're thinking, Oh, thank God. This is my miracle. I don't blame couples at all. I think we have a responsibility as vendors to not only have a living wage for everybody, but at the same time to be working towards helping our clients be educated and understand the value in what we put out there. So much of what we do. Isn't a tangible project. It's an experience. And that is very hard to put a physical number on.

(07:10):

I think that's a good point where you said that it's not, it's not the couple's fault, it's the vendor's fault because you know, it's not supposed to be shaming people for trying to get like a good deal, but it is like you know, it's, how do we educate? I don't know. How do you educate that?

(07:28):

I think putting out information is like, I have a pricing article, you know, on my site, you know, that's access to a lot and it gives you realistic prices on photography across our region, you know, and sets a range. I don't set like a specific, I say like four to $10,000, depending on hours of coverage deliverables, you know, quality experience and stuff like that. You know, that's a good, I think putting out information, keeping, putting out information like this podcast and making sure that it's found, you know, I think that's the hard thing. I don't know where to look at

(08:04):

Right there. You like there. That's perfect.

(08:09):

Yeah. so yeah, I think as, as as vendors are just continuing to put out quality information is important. Right. And making sure that it's found, other than that, I don't know, you know, what can we do? What do you think Irene, I want to hear from Alan, he's really good at this stuff. So I think one of the huge challenges is that mostly couples are planning one wedding one time for the first and only. So, as you mentioned earlier, there is some sticker shock. And sometimes that just takes some education about everything that goes into what we do and a photographer doesn't just come out and shoot for eight or 10 hours. I don't even know, is it 40

(08:56):

Hours of editing or just whatever that is afterwards? Like it's a lot, it's a lot of work that you guys do. And I hope that couples will take the approach of being sort of open minded and finding what goes into some of these things. If I were a couple I know everybody's got a budget and they've got to try and stay in that. They're just not going to be able to print out more money so that they can have the most expensive wedding ever. But I want to survey people in the categories that I felt were particularly important to find out what the range is and what, where, where are the beginners on that range and where are the really experienced professionals on that range and how will that impact me? And in particular, I would select a few vendors that I really, really wanted to have confidence that I really specialism is going to be.

(10:07):

I would start not by having a budget and then finding somebody that could work in that, find out what the budget is, find out what the good professionals, and maybe it can find some value in there, but work from that, take the vendors that you think are going to be super important to you and figure out how to make that work financially. And if it means that you sacrifice on something, that's not a priority for you you're, you're gonna be way better off. And, and for me, if I'm walking into my wedding day and I know that I've got a team, that's good and they've got my back, how confident do I feel? Right. Like, I know I'm going to have a great day because these guys have done hundreds of weddings and they'll help me. They'll get me where I need to be. In contrast, if you find people who are off three deals that seem unbelievable, seem desperate or income. To me, it's not a very good sign that they're going to be particularly effective or professional on your day. So I would sort of approach that, you know, as a couple, that's how I would approach.

(11:35):

Yeah. It's interesting that we had a, just a small moment last night at sailorish lodge and everyone was referred from kind of everyone else. And it was kind of a last minute thing. I don't, you know, they just decided to, I don't know why, but you know, they did that like a two hour thing, you know, last night and it, it was so cool. Cause you know, she had, you know, tried to do her best to not, you know, to just take referrals. Right. And you know, everyone was kind of doing it for, you know, it wasn't like a, you know, a steal, but you know, it was a good deal for a Tuesday, you know, what are you doing from six to eight? But it was so interesting to watch her because it was, you know, it was sailor slot. It was Mike tobolski, it was Ray van Winkle.

(12:15):

It was me. And like everyone there had known each other and my kids like sailors had referred Mike and then Mike had referred me and then they had referred Ray and like everybody and, and seeing her, you know, cause we hadn't like she came down the aisle, you know, we got married and then we kind of were doing all the chitchat afterwards. But seeing that like confidence in her and like realizing like, Oh my God, like I really kind of lucked into it more or less, but still like got this really great team. Right. And it wasn't even about the money. It was just about like, Oh, you know, and like I heard Ray cause they were like doing the paperwork and he said some really nice stuff about me, which was nice. Cause he had just been on the podcast a couple weeks ago, but it was just nice to like see her get like super jazzed about that and be like, Oh my gosh, like I actually did get really good.

(13:01):

You know, I'm going to be taken care of versus like we have a wedding this weekend where the photographer justifiably is not, there's some COBIT stuff and they're not going to do it. And so they found this like, you know, last minute, whatever. And every correspondence I've had with the bride since this has happened is like, well, like this person's coming now. Like we're settling for this. Like we have to do this. Like we're not really, you know, you can just tell like that excitement is gone and you know, so, so you know, you want, the point is, yeah, you want people, like Alan said, you want to be jazzed and you want to have like that, that team around you, that's going to support you.

(13:39):

Go ahead. I think you make a good point Reid is that there are ways to get discounts and then ways to get good deals. But they're more about thinking outside the box and still getting quality vendors instead of expecting a vendor to just give you a discount because you ask or because you're special for some particular reason, that's almost like a question. Can I get a discount? And I'm like, for what, what are we doing the discount for? I don't have a nice guy discount. Everybody's a nice guy

(14:08):

Touching I Reid was that that's just educating your clients web by educating other photographers. Is that what you wanted to touch on as well? Yeah. I mean, cause I mean you guys fight against it and Alan and I were talking about this yesterday too, where he, you know, you said Alan, like, I don't know if DJ's really where it seems like every day there's a new photographer, the Scott like a new deal and the new thing like immune, is that, is that accurate statement that I'm making Alan? Yes. Oh yeah. But, but sometimes the, the, the DJs don't have to offer 50% off because they're already at a very, very low end of the spectrum. Anyway. Then if you've ever been to a wedding with a bad DJ, you get what you pay for. You don't get what you don't pay for. So yeah.

(15:00):

So for Jen and Irene, I mean, what is it, you know, with all these photographers and I'm in a totally different boat too. Cause like, you know, there's new videography companies that pop up and it's totally know. I mean, it's like every day there's a new photographer. I mean, how do you guys, you know, and like I said, at the beginning of the podcast, the whole thing as well, it's just, you know, you just do what you need to do. And that, cause I was talking with Dorothy about this last night, she said, you know, what are you recording tomorrow? And I said, you know, I totally agree that if, you know, like for wedding videography, like if you're a Ray Roman, who's like this world renowned wedding videographer has done like presidential weddings flies to Italy. Okay. He doesn't need to worry about like other people pricing and whatever. But I think for like 85 to 90% of us, I do think it is applicable. Right. I think that we all, because whether you're competing against them or they're, they're drawing that proceeded value down. W so what do you guys think about that, Irene?

(15:54):

I think it's good for us as an industry to be understanding of what the market can bear and where our competition is, and also what we need to be profitable. And that's just basic business skills. And a lot of times people get into photography specifically because they're creative and they're passionate and they love to be behind the camera. And those things are well and good if you are running as a hobbyist. But a lot of us like myself and Jennifer have been doing this a long time and we like feeding our children. It's just a personal preference for college. Yeah. Yeah. Lots of college over here too. So we have to understand that the basics of where our numbers are at, so that when we find ourselves in a position where maybe we need to build a custom package, or maybe there is someone that we can see offering a discount to for a particular reason, I, I can't say that I've never offered discounts.

(16:49):

I can say that I offer them specifically and selectively depending on the scenario. If we fall into the situations, we have the leeway, we know what our numbers are at. I know that I'm going to have enough money to pay my taxes, pay myself and make sure that I don't go under. I mean, this year is a rough year for most people in the photography industry. And if you're on a volume based model where you're trying to get as many clients as possible. And so you've got lower prices, you've seen your volume disappear, which means you're going crap. Now, what the hell do I do? And so you're struggling. You have to kind of think ahead of those things and go, okay, how do I find the right volume and the right price point so that when those things collide, when we end up with a pandemic, I can still feed my family and take care of my needs. So it's really a personal thing. Each of these photographers and videographers and anybody in any industry really just needs to know their numbers and be aware that I'm pricing yourself just under the guy who you think that you're slightly better than in your field. Isn't a real business model.

(17:53):

Yeah. I think the two things that a lot of photographers and, and maybe videographers or anybody in the service industry is that you forget that you're in the service industry and that is not scalable. It's not selling something that you can mask reviews. It's not selling stock photography where you can take one photo and you post it up and then you can resell it. You know, this is very specific that wedding photo that I took of you, I can't resell it to anybody else. So it's very, very severe a service oriented it to that one artist. And it's not scalable. So if you are not going to know your numbers properly and work out exactly how much you can work, how much time you want to take off per year, you know, and what your hours are worth, what your time is worth. It's, it's not gonna work longterm. And yeah, you're just going to either burn out or I don't even know, you know, if you just need to take a business class on how to be as a service provider, you know,

(18:57):

Can I, sorry, can I add one more thing as a brighter, a groomer, a couple, I would be terrified. And that scenario, and I have seen and heard too many horror stories of people saying, Oh, my sister's wedding photographer was a fly by night kind of guy. And we thought we were getting a good deal, but really we never got the photos that we want, or it took nine months or they disappeared completely. And that's a real problem. So you need to be really as a couple vetting these vendors hard because there are a lot of people within this industry that will take advantage of you.

(19:31):

Yeah. And in my field in particular deejaying, I mean, there's so many stories, horror stories about, Oh, well, my brother's Brett buddy was going to be today and he didn't show up. Or you know, I'm sure the three of you have seen many, many bad DJs. But that's, that's what happens if I can, I want to share one more story with you. I had a recent occasion where a vendor who is somewhat widely known for 50% off you know, has been discounting quite a bit, a couple changed their date because of probate and me. They changed it for Tuesday night, but he said he couldn't come. So he sent someone else a sentence, another videographer, and that videographer was so uncommitted. I can hardly even tell you in the planning process, the bride had told me that it was very special to her, to dance with her mom to Brown eyed girl. It was as it was the third really parents dance either. She danced with her dad, groom danced with his mom. But during open dancing, they

(20:48):

Were going to dance together for a Brown girl. So when Brown eyed girl came on, I looked around for him and he was sitting in a chair on his phone and I went up to him and I said, by the way, you should know, this is an important moment. So the bride, then he's like, Oh, well, I can't really use the footage because of copyright law, which isn't true. And he literally didn't get up. Didn't film it. They, they will have no record of that. And I feel there's a direct correlation to the integrity of this original videographer and the results that this poor Brian's who in there when have I feel bad. Yeah. It's, it's tough because and that's the thing too, that w w when you're doing these discounts or people are asking for this dance you have to be incentivized, you know, and that was even with a lot of these ones where we had weddings you know, for this year we have a lot of, you know, discount like Seattle wedding show, which is a great way to do a discount.

(21:59):

You know, wedding shows is a great way to, you know, if you're trying to, you know, we're trying to help brides and grooms here, you know, that's a great way to get discounts, right. Meet people at the shows, you know, book within 30 days, great way to get like 10% off or whatever, you know, to kind of incentivize you know, yeah. And, you know, and like, if I drop, you know, five grand on my wedding show booth or whatever it is for the sponsor, you know, I like to know, okay, the next month. Okay. I just booked five or six, you know, it makes me feel a little bit better about, but anyway, you know, it's a great way to do that, but we have a lot of these weddings that got moved to next year. And, you know, I had to reach out to this couples and say, you know, we need to kind of figure out here if we need to do an upgrade or whatever, because this needs to work for both, you know, us and you guys, where I need to be incentivized to hold this date for another two years for you, or a year and a half or whatever.

(22:48):

Right. And it's not even, I'm trying to be rude. You know, like I said, you know, trying to offer like operates at a discount or whatever, they try to be like, you know, th this package that you've already paid 25% on with it, you know, with the discount to hold that balance for a year and a half, you know, we gotta figure out something here to make it work for everybody, you know? So, but that's what couples don't get to. I'm going to book someone for 700 bucks and then they don't show, well, wonder why they didn't show. Well, it's probably because they figured out something else that they wanted to do that day. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I think the incentivizing and having a reason, like what I mean set for these guys is super important. Not just for COVID. I feel like yeah, it has to be more than that. It has to be intentional. It has to be already worked into your whole pricing pricing structure that you've already made preparation for this, not just out

(23:46):

Of your, you know, out of thin air, it's just not, that's just poor planning.

(23:51):

And that was, that's actually a great advice, you know, where I can't remember one of the first years know, we really, I think when we bumped up to the sponsor, whatever that we were really going to do a big, you know, spend a lot of money at the show and say, well, I'm going to raise my prices, you know, 10 or 15% or whatever. So then I can give that discount where we're at. It feels better for them, but it's kind of the same difference, right. For me it, but like, I'm, I'm going to bump that up, you know, like you said, trying to like, plan that stuff ahead, then just be like, Oh, okay, well, what do I need? You know, what do I need for rent this month? Or whatever. Okay. Let's, let's try to book something.

(24:25):

Yeah. I was just helping my, a friend of mine redo her prices. And she did not have it all broken down. Like when I did my prices, like 10 years ago, I broke everything down per hour. All of the deliverables and all that. And I price it. Like there's a volume discount people me for an hour, it's total a hundred dollars for a family session, but who booked me for eight hours? You know, it becomes $500 per hour, so that I same price as the wedding or whatever, you know, so that when, when you have a, when you try to go cure existing couples for a family session leader, they're not going to ask you, why did you just charge me $5 an hour for a wedding per hour? And then this is like, whatever amount, like $1,200. That's because you refer eight hours, you can book me for eight hours again for a family session, and I'll give you $500 an hour, you know, but if you're going to just wait for an hour, I have to, there must be a return on your investment for me to go out and shoot, you know, for that one hour, there's travel this close productions to the same, same amount of, you know, time and investment and on my business.

(25:34):

So once you have broken down everything, then you can work in all your discounts and everything, and mathematically works. You know, it works for you to, to run a business. You know, you can't just, you know, like I said, just pull a discount out of nowhere.

(25:49):

That was like, Alan and I were talking this wedding, you know, for the I can't remember if I told this, refer to our record or not, but we had, we were going to have a wedding Friday and then it got canceled cause of COVID and they're still trying to do it. And she had just called me this morning that you want me to come up to come in the Island. And you know, like Jen said, you know, even if it's an hour session or whatever, you know, they, they want to do a live stream ceremony you know, to get up to communal Island on a Friday at five. And like I was telling Alan plus, you know, Dorothy and I had you know, like a date night plan. So there's, you know, upset wife tax too. You know, you gotta add, you gotta add that on, but, you know, but I that's what I didn't tell you, it's not, you know, it's not.

(26:29):

And you know, and we've done the live streams now for months. And like, when I show up and like the mother of the bride or whoever paid for it, like they see, Oh, wow, this is okay. This is why it costs so much because you know, you show up. But you know, it's trying to educate may be, I haven't done as good a job on that either with educating the, you know just the, the tremendous amount of work. But like, yeah, it's, it's people think, Oh, I just want the book for, you know, this just a tiny little amount of time. It's like, yeah, but I gotta get, I gotta get there and do it all.

(26:56):

It's not just the gas, you know, it's not just gas, it's your time driving, you know, an hour of your time that you could be doing something else. So you have to charge for that time. You've got to charge for the gas. You've got to charge for her, the maintenance. We have Carla, all this little, little things, you know, and you build a a sheet for yourself just to let yourself see what you're actually, you know, the time and travel. It's not just, Oh, why is it $150 for you to drive an hour out for us? It's not just gas. You know, you go ahead. I think live streaming is a perfect example of a service that people will quote massively different amounts. Like there are some people who are trying to live stream, then they're just going to put their phone on a tripod, you know, have a relative, do it or something like that. You know, first off, if it's just the pure cell signal, you're really risking that, that it won't even be able to go out successfully. Second of all, your sound is going to be terrible. If it's just,

(28:07):

Well

(28:09):

Then you can go all the way up the spectrum. I happen to know Reid spent a lot of money. You know, he's got hotspots for all of the major cell phone companies and he's adjusted a lot of his equipment to make sure the heat can deliver. So if you are doing a live stream and you hire a Reid, you're going to get it. You know, you're going to have a good angle. You're going to visit your guests who are on the internet, are going to be able to see everything and hear everything nicely. And couples don't always understand that. And so I think it's incumbent on us and trying to explain it, but it's also great. If a couple approaches it with an open mind, what do I get for this? Is this going to work for me? Yeah. A great example for what you're talking about.

(29:00):

Ellen was I shot a elopement on a boat last weekend and guests could not hear anything, visit the wind, you know, cause they had just duct taped their iPads on to the mass and whatnot, you know, and they had like four iPads going on and some of the iPads are, you know, they bought it for this reason. Right. But there was no, like, they didn't think about the sound so that the guests had typed into the thing. We can't hear anything because of the wind and we were in the middle of the sea, you know? So I was like, Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's true. You know, I didn't even think of it that, but that's because I'm not a videographer, I'm a photographer. And I didn't know how to, how to fix that. How do you do that

(29:42):

When it's too late?

(29:44):

Yeah. Irene, the other point you were going to make before.

(29:46):

Yeah. I was going to say that we're talking a little shops. We may have lost some of the brides and grooms at this point. But I mean, if I was a couple, I would definitely want to a pay for someone's expertise. Like I want to know that you you've got your stuff together. You understand all the different scenarios. Yesterday on Monday I was shooting at Widmark and they had this gorgeous tent and a beautiful view of the water, but at five o'clock that water hits that sunshine and it is blaring hot and it is all silhouettes, but I know how to shoot there because I've done it before. So I'm able to put up the lights and kind of fill in. And the mom of the green commented to me, she's like, Oh, I would've never thought you would need to do that.

(30:29):

And I'm like, yeah, that's kind of what you're paying for. You're paying for my ability to be able to take any circumstance I'm thrown out and then make it what you're imagining. And the reverse of that is when you pick a vendor that is maybe a lower budget vendor, often they're looking at you as just a dollar sign. And we think it's the opposite. We think that the higher priced vendors are just looking at you as a dollar sign, but that's not true. They're paying, they're asking to be paid that because they understand how much they want to serve you. They want to provide you with top notch customer service. They understand the hours that go into the editing or the even just emails and phone calls. And they're going to provide you with that level of expertise and that level of customer service that you really can't necessarily put a value dollar on, but you know, that they can. So you got to trust people when they say this is what I'm worth, this is what you're going to get from it and go from there. But if you see someone who's on that volume model and is just going to try to run through seven weddings a week, you know, kind of scenario, they're really just looking at you. Like you're a price tag. And I personally wouldn't want to put my important event, especially a life event, as valuable as a wedding in the hands of someone that did not honestly care about me.

(31:46):

That's a great, that's a great point in talking about the people that charge less is you and the more as a dollar sign than the people that cause yeah, I, I agree with that. I think that all of us has been, you know, Alan, we were talking again, the wedding, the COVID the one that canceled Alan had put in hours of work before that, you know, and then to have it cancel and not even, you know, and a lot of the people, I I'm rightfully so think, Oh, you know, a DJ just shows up and they play music. Right. But you got you all the pre-pro and then figuring out the song list and the meeting and the bookie and the, you know, driving to the meetings and all this different stuff that it was just an interesting point. I mean, you had, I thought,

(32:22):

Yeah, like for photography, I've discovered please ahead of time. Even if you know the venue, you know, sometimes, you know, things change. I was shot there for like a couple of months, you know? Maybe they've put up a tent, maybe they've taken down to 10 to, you know, it's, there's a lot of pre pre

(32:40):

And post work that we do. That's invisible.

(32:44):

I just think it's so important to just to do your research and price shop. And I'm looking I'm in my office here and, you know, cause like we've said before, you know, people that get married, you know, you have no idea. It's like, you know, remodeling the kitchen or whatever. Right. You have no idea like what that's going to cost. And I have I have this blind, my office faces like the sun. And so like all day when the sun sets, it gets like a million degrees in here. And so I wanted to get like a shade, like a sunshade, you know, to like block the whatever. And so this was like back in February, March. And so I called and God, this guy and he came out and he was like crazy. Like it was like 4,000 bucks or whatever. It was like nuts, but he was going to like mounted on the side of the house and it was going to be electric and solar power then plugged in and I could just like flip a switch.

(33:30):

And I was like, I don't, that's like awesome that you do that. And I saw the photos and they had, you know, these beautiful houses since was like, you know, that's, that's not for me, but I definitely understand like what, you know, if I have, you know, a million dollar house or whatever, why I wouldn't want to have that, you know, on the side of my house. And then I found a guy that was like, you know, just draping the sheet or whatever and you know, right. Like, okay, well I also don't want, you know, I want it to, I don't want to look like, you know, I'm living back on Delridge, you know, like I used to live in West Seattle. My neighbor always makes fun, but you know, and then I ended up getting this really nice. It's like a nice white hangs inside thing.

(34:05):

And it was like, you know, I don't know, like a thousand bucks, right? I mean, it's still not cheap, but it wasn't $4,000 and it wasn't $500 or whatever, you know, but, but doing that cause I have no idea. And that my point is is all these people that, you know, you're planning the wedding or anything else, you have no idea. And so setting, if I had sat there and said, well, I'm going to spend a thousand dollars on the shade six months ago, I would have said, well, that's, that's crazy. But then once you, once you do the research and you figure out, okay, well I don't want this or I want that or I want, you know, but I would just encourage anybody to do that sort of process and figuring out, you know, what is important and what's not.

(34:38):

Yeah. I think a good starting point is don't get your advice from somebody who's going to charge you $750 for an eight hour thing, you know, try and Google and, and try and talk to your friends who have gotten married, try and get like middle and a high price and a low price point. Probably talk about these three people, you know, before you decided, and then the likelihood of somebody who's been doing it a long time, who's charging like medium to high range. We'll have some, some good, you know information for you, you know? And then you can, yeah, you can, you can look at the 750 person if you want, you know, but yeah, definitely do a lot, a lot of research. Yeah. I would not have just picked the first roofer. I know nothing, literally nothing about roofing. When I started this process. Now I can tell you a lot about that. I did not know four weeks ago, but I got a good roof going on and I'm comfortable with the people that are doing it because explained things

(35:38):

Thoroughly to me, they helped educate me in what roofing is all about. And they treated me really good. Like the fantastic customer service. I got a text every Monday for four weeks saying, Hey, your job's still on schedule. We're still planning on coming out. We've still got the materials. I just want to let you know, we still care about you. And I'm like, dude, I'm paying for this and I'm happy to pay for this.

(36:01):

One thing I wanted to ask Irene about, and we had talked about this before you know, with these COVID deals right now and all of this, you know, this looming recession and everything that's going on. You know, you had gone through the Oh eight you know, everything like that. And I think there's obviously definitely similarities. Right? So what advice for you for, you know, vendors, couples, you know, both sides, whatever, but like just seeing, I just everyday now I just see, you know, discounts and everyone, you know, trying to cut all these practices to make up. And they, you know, and they're claiming, well, we're doing this for the couple, right? Hey, we're trying to help you out. But you know, they're helping them, they're helping themselves out. Right. So w w what's your advice having lived through all this before?

(36:45):

Yeah, so I've been shooting weddings since 2000. So I did go through the big recession and I, at that point was still a little greener than I am right now. And I had some issues where I thought to myself, yeah, I'm going to try discounting. I did that. That's why I know it's not a good call. And I remember very distinctly having a conversation with a bride who I loved her. She was my target client. And she, at the very end of our conversation, she goes, I want to book with you, but I have one question. Why is this 40% off? I didn't go 50. I went 40 and I didn't have a good answer for her besides the fact that I wanted business. And I thought, if I just do more business, this will somehow work out. And I had to take a really hard look at it and be honest with it and just go, well, I just need to work.

(37:35):

And she's like, I don't know if I'm comfortable with that. And that really hit me. And I was like, okay, I have to do some serious thought. And so I did more, more work. I went back to a little bit of school, got a little more into the business side of it and said to myself, okay, I'm going to make sure that I know my numbers and that I never have to do something that feels dishonest to a client because honesty and integrity is really important to me. And just having a discount for no reason felt dishonest, but I knew, and I still know that I have to have a certain number of weddings. I have to have a certain number of hours to be able to pay all of my bills. And I don't want to just break even because breaking even does not put my kids through school.

(38:18):

I don't want to pay a client to do their wedding which can happen if you do this wrong. Because I don't need the portfolio and I understand building a portfolio and how that works. You, you put yourself a little bit lower hoping for a lower return for yourself. But the thing that really helps me, whether it was just being honest with my clients and saying, Hey, this is how I work. This is what you're going to get from me that I can offer you that nobody else can. Yes. Price is the only thing you've thought about so far, because that's the only thing, you know, to pick on. But let me offer you some actual value. And the value came in, not necessarily the dollar signs, but what was included in that. And there's a lot of ways that we can increase value for clients without necessarily decreasing price.

(39:05):

One of the things that I love to do is I love to donate to charity. And so one of the things that my business is based on is I do photography and philanthropy. And I tell my clients that every single wedding I do a portion of the proceeds are gonna go to a charity that you feel comfortable with. And those are all listed on my website and people that come to me and say, I love this angle are more than happy to pay that because they know that the price includes doing some good somewhere and they're not stressed about it. And I'm not cutting it out of my salary per se, because like I said, we're still eating and it's just a good balance. It's knowing that business is a part of this creative process. And we love being a part of the creative part of weddings, but we also, at the same time, really love doing a good job. And I can't keep doing a good job if I'm not paying myself. And if I'm not charging enough to make a living

(39:58):

Well, and the way you were talking too about, you know, the discounts and working, and that's kind of what kills me now, too, as these people, wow. You know, I'm trying to build a portfolio or whatever. I mean, I was talking with, with Alan about this yesterday, we just had a wedding. I have a wedding on the 15th, and I don't know if I'm going to use that right. In my portfolio. It's a wonderful wedding. They, they did everything by the rules, but it's, you know, Alan and I were talking about it does that embodying the feeling right in two years when you're trying to plan your wedding and you see this wedding and, you know, the distance and the mass and everything, you know, even though it's beautiful and it followed the rules is that, you know what I'm saying? And so it's not even really right now, like people this whole, I just need like portfolio work.

(40:40):

It's like, well, I don't really think that we're going to be blowing up the internet with all these mass photos for the next day. You know what I mean? So it's like, so you really are just doing it for the money right now. Right? Like it's not even, you know, and we're doing it for the love of the client and all of that, but, you know, but it's not like, Hey, well, I got a discount right now. I need a portfolio work. It's like, no, you're just doing it because you don't have money right now. You know?

(41:03):

Well I feel like if they want to offer something like affordable to people, maybe reduced hours, you know, like you want to charge $750 shift for two hours, you know, that's still portfolio worthy. I feel, you know, I'm just trying to make something that is monetarily, and this is sound, you know, you don't shoot for eight hours for sound for a student, you know, find something that I don't know if he, he, he, is he booking for, at this price for next or the year

(41:34):

After, or because nobody's having an eight hour wedding.

(41:39):

That's also, it's interesting, but yeah. And it was, yeah, but it's for everything like book within a week for no matter when or what does that tell you?

(41:48):

Got it. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like you can totally build a portfolio, but yeah. Just find a price that you think that it's affordable, but maybe offer less, you know, it has to make sense. Right. that's a great point, Jennifer. I think that there's lots of people out there that think that all I have to spend four K or I'm not going to be able to get anything, but with lower budget clients all the time, I just don't work as long. Yeah. Yeah. Less deliverables maybe, you know no second shooter no highlight, reel, whatever it is, you know, you can have, you can spend within your means, but just adjust your expectations, you know, and see what you need, because sometimes you may not need eight hours of coverage. You may just need five or six, you know, you don't need that many destined photos. Maybe you don't need getting ready, whatever. Right.

(42:42):

No. And that was even like our one last night, you know, I showed my mom the other photo, you know, and they, it was two hours. It was not an expensive wedding. And she was, my mom said, wow, that's beautiful. That's so amazing. And I'm, I hear it like that. Didn't hardly cost him anything for us all to come out, you know? And you figure, I don't know what sailorish costs, but they were under two grand for us to come out. You know, it just for like the, the ceremony and a couple of photos outside. I mean, it's really not that, whatever. So Alan as private message me a question here that, which I think is good. And, and I think we'll toss it to Alan, whether there's some tips about how customers can how couples can save money, but still get good quality service.

(43:22):

Well, and what I was thinking about, you know, when we went spurred, this is an offer that seemed like it's too good to be true. Right. But couples are looking at budgets and that's a big challenge. So, I mean, I think a couple things that couples can do first avoid Saturdays in the summer, right? Like those are definitely going to be the most expensive times to get married. So if you are willing to get married off season and different vendors will have different definitions of that, but it's pretty clearly November to April. You know, may in October, you can decide whether that's in season or out of Caesar. I think with all the competition for 2021 dates, the idea of getting married on a week night is going to be way more popular. And I feel like most Benyus and most then doors are going to willing to make that more economically feasible for couples.

(44:36):

So I think that's certainly worth considering, and there are some times where there are sneaky dates, you know, depending on when July 4th occurs, maybe you're getting married on the first day, but nobody's working on the next day or something like that. Or I've had people who got married the day before or the day after Thanksgiving, because many of their friends were going to be coming down for that. So I think that idea of being creative with your date is probably the easiest thing that you can do to save money and still get to work with high quality professionals and get the results that you would expect from that. And then each field will have different things that you may or may not be able to save money on. You know, Jen was mentioning a lot of great things that you could potentially look at from your photography budget and figure out we need that many hours. We need a second shooter. You know, what are, what are the things that would make that more affordable for you?

(45:40):

Yeah. I have a lot of clients that love albums. I do a ton of albums, but they'll wait a year to get their album. And it's really no different. They still get all the great stuff, but spreads the cost out and amortize a little bit, which is helpful.

(45:58):

What you're saying, outlined with COBIT as well, because people are working remotely. They're working from home, you know, there are no office hours anymore, so you can potentially have your wedding on a weekday. You know, if it's your guests and your friends, you know, who are coming to the wedding are able to, you know, are a majority of them are like working from home or whatever you call it, a silver lining. I think that's a great idea. Great suggestion, Alan,

(46:25):

And there's, I'm sure if you talk to caterers, there's great ways to save on catering as well. A lot of it depends on what meal they're serving and the qual and the type of foods. I mean, a lunch buffet is cheaper than a dinner buffet. End of story.

(46:42):

I was just going to call you sneaky Al from now on. I like sneaky too, but no, but I, and we've been talking about this a lot lately on the podcast and just, you know, really being creative. You know, I guess our thing last night, you know, it was like six to eight, they got married. I mean, there was six people, seven with the efficient and then, yeah, and then they cut a cake and then I said, you know, to the groom Rex, I said, so are you guys staying here? He was like, Oh yeah, we, you know, we got dinner reservations, you know, upstairs at sailors. And then we're going to stay here tonight. And I'm like, you can't tell me that it's not an awesome night. Right. You can't tell me that, that wasn't everything, they got the view, they got the photo video. You know, they got some great portraits. I mean, you can't tell me that for that, that it wasn't,

(47:30):

You know, and I know that that's not for everybody, but as of right now, I mean, I think that that is, is as sweet as you can do for, you know, a Tuesday night in August and, and being able to basically have any vendors and venue you wanted, you know, I mean, I don't know if you could get, say Alicia on a Saturday, in August at, you know, last minute like that, you know?

(47:50):

Yeah. I think couples really had to decide whether or not they want all this quantity over quality, right? If you can spend $750 on like a quality, two hour footage or one hour of footage, you know, versus eight hours of you, you don't know what you're going to get.

(48:07):

Any, any other topics that I haven't brought up before we go, I know that there was a lot of fire coming into this. I wanted to make sure we, we got everything. I want to make sure we got it all. You know, I mean, I guess to be serious, you know, final takeaways, you know, advice. Cause like I said, I don't want it to be, you know, it's, it's not supposed to be shaming. You know, everybody needs to start somewhere. But I think like I read and said, you know, having discounts for no reason, I think, you know, playing the COBIT thing when everybody is struggling, I think just being wary, if you feel weird, I've talked with so many couples, we got this photographer or we have this DJ or not now DJ a video I had, I took one a couple of weeks ago that she had the mother of the groom had said, you know, we we've been talking with this guy and we just don't feel, I don't feel right about it. And I said, you know, I don't know who they were. I have no, really any context of any of it, you know, nothing was signed, but she just said, you know, we just don't feel good. And she said, you know, we asked our DJ and they referred you and we just wanted to feel good about it. Right. And so if you, if you feel that way, then I think that there's probably a reason you're feeling that way. So yeah,

(49:16):

I think one more point I want to add was like, actually, you know, because most of our couples are one 80 to 2021, it's actually even more pricey. I would say, you know, there is really for the established vendors, there really is no reason to, to give a discount just because, you know, we are basically the hook to the gills for 2021 because of all the weddings that move from this year to next year, you know, we are scrambling to kind of find dates for our couples. So if you're really, if anybody's ever telling you that, you know, Oh, you know, because of COBIT, here's a great deal for you just know that all the good vendors are, are really, really booked for 2021. There is a discount is doesn't seem really logical to me for an established vendor to go about it.

(50:18):

Well, I think if I'm a couple, I really want to select, at least some of my vendors that I know are rock solid and full integrity and going to be in business for the long term. And that, that involves having a business plan and that involves figuring out what is the fair value for the services that you provide. And so I hope that couples will take that into account as they look at what's out there. And you know, we'll go back to that one cliche one more time, if it sounds too good to be true. I agree whether you think

(51:04):

I get two things one for vendors and one for couples. So if you're a vendor and you're out there trying to make it work reach out to someone who is in your industry, who's in your field and befriend them. That's been in there longer and ask them questions. I know Jennifer and myself, we're both the type of people that want to help everybody in the industry come up. And if you're not sure about pricing, talk to somebody and let's help you get to where you need to be. So you can do what you love and you can get paid what you deserve to get paid. And then you don't have to try to do these kind of ad hoc things that really are longterm detrimental to your business. We love you guys. We want all of your vendors to succeed. I don't see any other photographer or videographer as a threat. I see them as somebody who loves the same things that I love

(51:56):

Community, you know, you need a community because say you really can't go into this. I'm pissing people off, you know, with, with how fast pricing, right?

(52:07):

You want a community because you can only shoot one wedding a day.

(52:11):

If somebody else that you love and loves you back, you know, has another inquiry. You want that to be referred. So you don't, you want to create a community and a network of peers, right. And, and price cutting and stuff like that. It's not a good way to go about it.

(52:29):

And then finally, for a couples my advice to you guys is do what Alan suggested earlier and find out what's really important to you have a conversation, put your goals together and then focus on that and then let the expectations for the other things go. One of the keys to happiness in life is having low expectations. At least that's worked for me so far, but if you, if you're flexible in your expectations, then you can't be disappointed by the things that you're missing. You can really only see the good things that are happening. COVID has given us all an opportunity to really be grateful for what we have, the people that we love and the people that are important to us take that into account instead of the dollar signs and worrying about those other things and really find the way that you can be happy and enjoy the loved one that you're committing to after all your wedding is a beautiful thing. And all of us in the industry, and especially the four of us here, we want to make sure that that works out really well for you.

(53:32):

That's good. Anything else? No, we're good. Yeah, no, I think that's all great points and it just, if nothing else has been shown in the last six months, I think this community is word travels very quickly. And so I think that you know, like you said, reaching out, asking questions that things be in the positive you know, trying to get your portfolio bill in a positive way, trying to book clients, you know, people know and talk to everybody. And so I think it's a lot smaller world than, than people think. And so, yeah, I, I agree with all of that. So thank you guys all so much for being here and kind of hopping on this today. I think, I don't think we got two out of line. I think it was good.

(54:18):

Oh, did you know, we did great fast line for everyone else. Thank you so much. We'll put everyone's you know, information down below and I think you guys so much for hopping on and Oh if you have any questions for future episodes of the podcast. So I don't have to, you know, go on like rage Facebook comments with people. I, you can go to www.bestmadevideos.com/podcastguest and we have all the vendor categories. Nobody uses this survey. It's a great survey. We have all their vendor categories and you can just select a vendor and leave a question and we can put together one of these around the table. So thank you guys again. And I hope everyone stay safe.

Episode 12 - Talking with Married Couples

(00:09):

Thank you all so much for joining. I was sitting on Sunday trying to figure out the next one of these Best Made Weddings® podcasts to do. And we've been doing so much talking lately with vendors. I thought it was be really great to actually talk to some couples and some couples that have gotten married right now and have tried to kind of do everything, you know, the crazy time that we're in and all the regulations and everything else. And so I kind of put out a couple of different calls and Lauren, I saw you had posted in, in the Seattle wedding group and then Bri and Kas. We got put together with your photographer, Julia, who I love. And so thank you guys all so much. I know this is a little weird, but you all seem very excited and you actually all know, you all know each other from an online gift registry, which is absolutely fantastic. First off just Lauren and Kelly, why don't you guys introduce yourselves and tell us when you got married and where, and then we'll, we'll go to we'll bounce around.

(01:03):

Awesome. Lauren and Kelly, the new mr. Mrs. Bolster. We got married on August 8th and out in Eastern Washington. It was a very, very intimate day and super fun. And it was just like it, I think it was like a blessing in disguise, you know, having a small, intimate wedding. We had planned for, I think around 200, I think 250 is like what we were inviting expecting 200 and it went to 17 and it was, it was awesome. It was phenomenal. It was like we made it, I made it what I wanted, but all the little pieces and had a good time.

(01:44):

Perfect, awesome. And Bri and Kas about you guys?

(01:48):

So we're Bri and Kas and we're the McTots. As of right now. We got married on August 8th as well at Woodinville lavender. It was a really great day for us as well. We had always kind of wanted a smaller ceremony and elopement, but with myself having the extended on extended family, we decided to go with more of a traditional style, but just like worn in Kelly. We were very blessed to actually have a true intimate wedding and be able to just relax and truly hang out with our family for a day.

(02:23):

Awesome. And then my wife and I were August 6th, a couple of years ago, but if it had been, you know, and the different world, we all, would've been in the same, the same boat together, you know, with, with dealing with all this. And, and I think you guys really get you know, why we're here today. The biggest thing on the podcast lately that we've been trying to talk about, you know, I started this kind of round table format back almost three months ago now just really trying to focus on the positives and figuring out what we can do right now. That's gonna be, you know, correct and legal, but like, you know, there's been lots of talks about, well, we're going to do our real wedding next, or what is this that we're doing this year? We just had three of the top CLO wedding officiant.

(03:04):

It's on two weeks ago talking about how to really make your ceremony your own and really get the most that you can out of your day. And then we just did a whole wedding last week with photographers talking about micro weddings and you know, how awesome that is for photography and special moments. So, and you guys are kind of living it and you've just kind of gone through everything I bring caseloads start with you just, you know, there's a lot of married couple or a soon to be married, couples listening to this. What has this whole thing kind of been like for you guys?

(03:35):

We made our decision early on to shrink it to just 10 of our closest family members and then ourselves. And so we had started that conversation in April and then truly made the decision in may. And that for us really saved us a lot of heartache down the line. We were able to let folks know right away that this was our plan, just to make sure everyone would be safe and it was the most manageable. So that way we weren't shrinking the guest list to 30 and then having to shrink the guest list to 15 and then having to make final cuts here and there, we just decided to rip the bandaid and say, this is the plan, and this is what we need, and this is how we're going to do it. And hopefully, luckily we were able to execute that with the state recommendations and mandates.

(04:27):

Yeah. And the other nice thing was, is we were just able to get like the hard phone calls out of the way and tell people not to put the plane tickets. We didn't have a lot of people traveling, but luckily everyone who had booked tickets, everything was refundable. And it just sort of gave us those three months to like, figure out like what we wanted versus like going back and forth. I think our venue wanted to go back and was able to go back and forth more. And so he was like, Oh, well, we can do 80 again. And we're like, you're not like we're done it. Like, cause there was a long time where we have really long engagement and we're like, do we want to just elope on a beach in Mexico? Do we want to go to Vegas? Like what do we want to do? And we ended up with an 80 person wedding and we sort of ended up getting what we'd originally talked about, which is just kind of ironic at this point.

(05:14):

It's amazing. We, I think it was, we have about the same timeline. I think it was I'm a teacher. So when they called schools to close, I was like, no, my, all of my family's in the East coast. So and they're in New York city. So on top of it, I was like, Oh, this isn't, this isn't good. So we started by doing a 50 person list and I come from a huge family. Kind of like you ladies are saying that we were, we were getting to a point that it was like, so we can invite this cousin, but they can't bring their wife like that kind of situation. So we, I would say a few weeks of that battle and kind of the emotions of that. We finally were like, Nope, you know what? Let's go to immediate family only. We're literally not even and uncles

(05:58):

Because his family's here. Mine is like I said, back East that I was worried, my aunts were going to like drive across country. Now don't come. There's nothing for you to do here. We can't even stay in a hotel yet. So we made the call, I would say April, it was April. And then we sent out, cause we had sent, saved the dates around the holidays. And then we recent out like our love story will still be told kind of thing. And it was kind of a blessing in disguise. I, my brother had a baby right at the start in March. So none of us could see him right away. So it kind of turned out to this like, perfect. We've all had to spend some super quality time together. My mom who hadn't yet met her grandchild we all got that like super quality time. And it was like five days. And Kelly got to spend a lot of time with my family who's from all over, which they all drove into.

(06:54):

So it, it, like you said, it was kind of like, it all worked out to this way that it's perfect. We will try to do a celebration next year. But I'm not, you know, we're, we kind of put all the weight to this one. This was very special to us. And it was awesome. It was a lot of fun and I, I truly don't think I would change it. You know, like I said, we set out with this original plan and it just, what I knew, I didn't even think you could do this. Like, and now here I am like, Oh my God, everybody has to do this. Like do this. It's awesome. A hundred percent exact sentence. Yeah.

(07:30):

That's my big question too is, and obviously there's no right or wrong answer, but you know, even one of my wife's good friends was going to get married in October. You know, they're pushing into next year, they're going to do, you know, just family this year, try to kind of rally the troops next year. Do you guys feel, and we really have not talked to him about a lot of this, you know, ahead of time. Right. Which I think is great for kind of organic, but do you, do you feel like you guys are set now? Like if you didn't have to do anything next year, where you guys both out Warren, I see you kind of thinking,

(08:00):

Yeah. I, if we didn't have, if we couldn't like, if there, if there was a mandate a year, 18 months from now and we couldn't do anything, I'd be like, that's fine. Not a big deal. However, I know my family back East is like really jonesing to do something. So we kind of have this idea. We still have our venue cause we didn't even use that and we have paid for it. So we're going to hopefully use that here next spring. So we're going to do a party on the East coast and the West coast. So I mean, like if I can get three weddings out of it, that'd be sick, but if not, like we're just going to do, you know, we did, we got our day. So it's, it is what it is from here on out. We did talk about it and there's a lot of things that we had to make a lot of concessions for to be able to do anything close to what we originally wanted. And that's really what I wanted for her.

(08:56):

You know, I didn't have as much in terms of like the fairy tale idea for my wedding. I just knew I wanted the right woman there really. So seeing her plan everything and then have to go, you know, a step down and then another step down was, was tough because they felt like she was missing out on the thing that she was dreaming about since she was a young girl. So, but she did an amazing job and I wouldn't trade what we did for anything. It was perfect. And like, like we said, I hadn't gotten to spend a lot of time with her mother or her brother and their new babies. So it was just that extra little bit of special on top that we wouldn't have gotten with that many people. I wouldn't have been able to see, you know, you get to talk to maybe like four people for 12 minutes and that's it. What about you guys? Do you feel like you you're, you're set now, are you going to try to do something next year?

(09:52):

We've definitely communicated to folks that we'll celebrate together soon. We don't know what that truly looks like for us. I think in the long run, if this was it, we'd be perfectly satisfied and it's, that was our day. And it was amazing as is. But I do feel kind of that back and forth of all these folks were very excited and they couldn't come, but they wanted to be there and celebrate with us. And so I wouldn't be opposed to it by any means, but it's not something that we're actively planning as we're seeing more and more brides coming into 2021 having to already push or already get those nerves. So we have nothing on the books. Well, and I think the other thing is we have like all of my, like brides men were from California. And so we've had a lot of, a lot of conversations with them of like, maybe we just do like a boys trip.

(10:47):

Like we go and hang out with my boys and we go to Vegas or something. Cause like we also didn't get to have bachelorette parties. And so it's like sort of do like a celebration with people separately. Instead of doing like one big thing. Cause I think conversely like pardon Kelly, like we, our venue, we would have had to pay 50% extra to use next year. So we were either like a use it or lose it type situation for us. Cause we'd already spent so much money and, and most of everything we'd put down was non-refundable. So this year it was like, alright, we're doing whatever we can at our vendors. Like this is our investment. And so if we were to host something like a celebration, like bowel renewal, it would probably be like at one of our family's properties, like houses and it'd be something low key where like we like catered or like have like a food truck or something like as like low cost as possible where we can still have fun and just like enjoy ourselves.

(11:39):

But like you said, like at the end of the day, like our day was perfect and we got to celebrate it with our family. So like if we do end up just like hanging out with people over the next couple of years and sort of doing a later celebration, like 20 different times and like a low key I'm also okay with that perfectly fine. Keep celebrating. Yeah. Yeah. Just keep partying. I'm like how many reasons can we do this giving like as Corona brides, it's like, we just have like the next time like, Oh, I didn't get to see you for my wedding. My wedding. Will you wear your dress though? For the next ones? Everybody keeps asking me that. And I'm like, I don't know, we're getting ours cleaned and not preserved. Just in case you decide to do more of like a Valor renewal, like with more people there, then at least they're clean. I should probably do that. So I was like, well, okay. But I mean, ours got so dirty. You were telling me that before. It was like, my in my veil is like it's white to Brown. It'll be fun.

(12:55):

Yeah. You never see the bottom of the dress in the photo that was wearing.

(12:58):

Yeah.

(13:01):

There's so many. I still online all the time now, you know, I'm seeing, you know, like September, October, November, a couples posting, you know, Lauren I know were part of the the wedding group. And I don't know if you guys are two of the Seattle wedding network group and you know, people were still asking, you know, whether we do, whether we do, you know, cause you know, I've talked about on the podcast before, you know, I remember in April talking to our Memorial day one of our weddings and saying, man, like you got this, like we're totally like MMA. And then our wedding that we had this one on the 15th was going to be like same thing, like 250 people. They were all from Wisconsin coming in, you know, we ended up doing like a live stream cause they only had, you know, 20 people or whatever.

(13:47):

But yeah, I remember even talking to her for months and say, you know, it's fine. And now it really is getting into this, you know? And it's scary for vendors and you know, couples that these, you know, what we felt maybe would have been good in October and November are still really kind of in danger zone. So, you know, if someone's still planning and they're listening to this, I mean, what do you tell them? Is it get the bandaid off and just really try to downsize? I mean, it seems like you guys are both felt way better off kind of downsizing and just like making the best of what you have is that I see Bri and Kas, see you guys nodding. I mean, what's your advice to people listening?

(14:23):

I mean, I'd say my big thing is just, do you and like, do whatever makes you happy and don't sacrifice anything. Like we had a lot of conversations back and forth with family about what made sense, what didn't make sense. Like we are working from home. We've been working from home for over five months now. So it's like, we're in our nice, like it's us and our bubble. And so we are doing everything safely and it's like, alright, we can do this with our families and distance. And we were very comfortable in what we were doing. But I think the one thing is for me, it's like, we got really lucky. And so I think so did Lauren Kelly is that so James Lee came out and said August six, no more receptions. And that was two weeks before our wedding. And I think the no reception thing was definitely something that caught our eyes.

(15:12):

We're like, alright, well this is going to affect two days before her wedding. How are we going to do that? I think then like three days later I came out like, Oh, it's going into effect 12:01 AM on the 10th. And we're like, all right. We're like, we're getting in right before the deadline. We're turning in that paper. Like the second thing before it's due. And I think the one thing that looking forward is for a couples getting married in the next couple of months, at least in Washington, we don't know how long this is going to go on is I probably would still do the ceremony and then find a way to do not a reception. But I think a lot of people were doing like picnics in the park and like finding a way to do something that makes you happy. And it's like, if you're super outdoors, you like go to a like park, go on a hike.

(15:55):

Like there's so many ways that you can make your wedding so unique to you as a couple. Now that isn't traditional, but literally all rules are out the window. At this point. I think something we've learned is that like, I think the one thing we wish we would have done is just from the get, go be like, what makes us happy? And I think we hit 98% of the marks. But if we, if August six was the deadline, I think we would have found a way that was super unique to us to have that reception type feeling and still be able to spend that time with our families while with yes. All of them.

(16:34):

Yeah. I think I'd say, like you said, do, what do what's going to work for you? We're at a point in our life that the next thing we want as a family. So we're kind of, you know, waiting another year, wasn't going to work. If you would've asked me in 10 years, 10 years ago, we would've might've might've said like, we'll wait, but it's not, that's not what we want right now. And I do have a girlfriend who was supposed to get married in April, pushed it to November. And when the no reception thing came out, also comes from big family, was like, we gotta do something. So and I'm really proud of her because I know it wasn't easy and she's, they're going to do a ceremony and a family dinner kind of like you were talking about. And I just think, but that's, that's, what's working for her and this is what worked for us. And, but if, if you can do it, I mean, it's, it's worth it. Wear the dress, get dressed up, get the photographer make it special. Cause you know, we've talked about, about renewal and things like that. And I just, I felt like I wouldn't have the same energy and emotion that we've had this first, you know, on the eighth, there was just no way to recreate that. And I'm really glad that we did that now and not kept thinking like, Oh 20, 21. Oh. You know? And

(17:50):

So I was, my advice is do it. I want you guys book

(17:56):

Everyone to kind of walk me a little bit through your day and just kind of what it felt like in the emotions and because we've done, we've been doing just a little live stream, you know, just the ceremony kind of things over the last couple of weeks, just, and one of our ones a couple of weeks ago, you know, they, they got married and basically, you know, she just came out, they did the first look super easy and then it was, I think, like six people on them, you know? And then the photographer and I, and afterwards she said, Oh my gosh, like I felt so less stressed. Like this was awesome. You know, if I would have had 18 people here getting ready and all of this and trying to maneuver all these different things and go to 18 different locations, all that stuff. Did you guys feel, you know, relaxed on your day? I mean, what, what was it like getting married and more, and let's start with you guys.

(18:46):

I don't think there's any less emotion or nerves or anything. It's still your wedding day. You still have all those. I've never been married before all of the same feelings. It doesn't matter who isn't there. It's who is there that makes it all the difference. Right. So for me, I think I have all the normal nerves you would have. It was, yeah, it was kind of normal in a way, because, so it was my, my sister, my sister sister-in-law and one local bridesmaid was there. So I still kind of had that like girl time in the morning of like the getting ready. And we got ready at a rental cabin and then drove over to his parents. And so, I mean, there was still all the inks, like at one point I just remember being, like getting her hair and makeup done, which I love doing.

(19:38):

I felt like we need to be doing something, come on, people. Like, where are we doing? And I'll never forget getting in the car with my brother who was the officiant too. So he was kind of nervous, I think, but more just, it was the sister's wedding day gets on I 90 heading the wrong direction. And I'm like, and I am looking at my phone, like responding to an aunt or something like that. And all of a sudden he goes, I'm sorry, what, what exit was it? Everybody in the car? You could hear like the, the heart, because they knew I was going to like, but he was, he was really cool, made a joke of it. And so there was a lot of emotion, but again, there wasn't this, like, I know I'm somebody that like am worried about, are there enough drinks? Is everybody, you know, comfortable. And I didn't have to do that. And I felt like if somebody wasn't comfortable, they were going to go fix it themselves. And they didn't have to worry about that. I didn't have to worry about like this amount of guests and is our food hot is our drinks cold. And so that was removed because of this. And I really, I felt lucky because of that. I mean, I still had the angst and the emotions, but it was a great day.

(20:45):

Any less yeah, not that, not that it's good to have those emotions, but it is good to kind of know that the, you know, your pulse is still going, that you, it means something every council that you guys

(21:00):

Again, to Kelly sentiment never been married before. So I'm sure you're supposed to be pretty high, but I mean, we were getting our hair and makeup done and we had basketball on, in the background and it was just really relaxed as like excited and nervous as we were. I mean, we just hung out all morning. It was great. And then by the time we got to the venue that was when the herding cats a little bit started to happen with making sure family got there and was all situated and then coordinating the two brides doing first looks was interesting. And the rain. Yeah. And then it started to rain as we're getting into first looks. So that was fun. But it was one of those where everything weather worked out really well for us, the photos were like nice and cloudy. And then the sun came out for a ceremony, which was incredible.

(21:55):

And then, I mean, I feel like the main stressors were just around like making sure everyone, like, do you have a drink? Do you have like foods later? And here's the timeline? I think the biggest thing was like wishing out a squirt bottle, like made sure people were wearing their masks or like six feet. Like, I feel like that was the biggest stressor is like, so-and-so, doesn't have a mask on, is it okay? Are we okay with this? Like, but it really just came down to everyone's an adult. And if they, if you need to put a mask on, you can ask them to put a mask on. So yeah. But it was like, I feel like super relaxed, like definitely nervous. But then once we were in the flow of things, like we were just hanging out. Like she was like, I got dressed first.

(22:38):

And then the first look with mine, like dad and brother. And then I was just hanging out with my family, waiting there for her to put her dress on and like do her thing. So it's just like, all right, like just hanging out in a dress, like and then like, yeah, like after like during our like sort of reception ish, we're just hanging out, like got to spend time with family and like, didn't have to check in with each and every guest and like, didn't have to make the rounds. Like we actually were able to sit and eat, which I've heard doesn't happen, but it happened for us. So we're happy we actually got to try dinner.

(23:15):

No, we just are ready. Not the one on Saturday. They had a, we just have a small, like, it was like an after dinner kind of thing as a restaurant and yeah, but it was still like the groom still had this stake taken away, you know, like boxing up or something like that. You find time to eat and not to not look in the bus to anybody, but how was social distancing and mass and all of that for each of you, you know, for both of your guys's wedding it's what was that like? Lauren.

(23:41):

Ours. So ours was a little different. It was all family and kind of,

(23:46):

We had sent an email actually. I think I sent a few emails, you know, kind of like, Hey, here are my expectations about, you know, 20 days before the wedding. And we, I had made, I had tied a bunch of napkins for the wedding for a hundred and somebody, people we were going to have, well, somebody, we, a friend of mine turned them into masks. So I had masks available for everybody. We did ask the photographer and videographer to wear them. And we said, if anybody wants to wear them, they're here. But we had all been staying in our homes together for the whole week. So we kind of were like, well, you're in, you know what I mean? Like we're quarantined together. And my mom, she was the only one that flew and she flew out to me to us, I guess like 20 days before the wedding.

(24:30):

Which looking at him spend a lot of time. Cause mother-in-law, and so she said all this for a while, cause she was really worried about it. But we felt like you guys had talked about like we were in a bubble, we're working from home, all of my family's working from home. So we, we felt pretty comfortable with that and we, we didn't have anybody that was older. So it was kind of a con like a, it was a family thing. And again, we, we opened it and said like, we want please talk to us. And we all, we did say, we did say to my father in law, like he's been covered. And I said, be sure to like, communicate, like, don't just do it. Like, you got to be sure if they're ready for it. And some, you know, stood back and there were some that did it and whatever. So we kind of just like made sure everybody was taken care of too.

(25:19):

Yeah. Someone that said very OCD then their hand the, the whole no handshaking thing is very good for me right now. I'm very much enjoying that. What about you guys? How has, how has the, you talked a little bit about, you know, jokingly about the mass, like I said, I mean, not looking to bust anybody, but what did, did people seem receptive?

(25:38):

They were, they were in, they weren't. So we sent an email as well that wasn't as well received by everyone could have been a little bit more gentle if you will. And so we definitely sent a very strong email. And I got to hear just a little bit. We truly were, we have some our photographer was immunocompromised. We have family members who are immune compromised. And so it was Mo we definitely had more mask wearing because we were two households coming together. We hadn't quite been quarantined together and had that exposure. And so there were plenty of times where we did, we made sure that the aisle was six feet apart. We did require masks for some things, and then just tried to be respectful with social distancing while also leaving it up to our families to say, if, if someone needs to put a mask on and you all are talking like you all are.

(26:43):

So there were times where we did have to ask folks to put on a mask, but I mean, we had originally wanted folks to get tested and in different counties, that's the rule. It's not as easy as in King County to just go get a test. And then there's some wiggle room about testing where it's, it's only good for that time, but if you did anything outside of that. And so there's, there's a lot of unknown and there's a lot of discrepancies across the board with what is the actual a hundred percent truth. And then what was on a news report or a Facebook article that you read. And so it was definitely navigating through some family opinions and ideas of what's going on. And at the end of the day, I think we did a really great job of making sure everyone was safe.

(27:35):

We provided masks in case your mascot, a little warm and sweaty and you needed to change. And then it has one of our party favors. We did many hand sanitizers tied with the little ribbon, so it made it easy to grab a hand sanitizer and go on your Merry way, just stay six feet apart and wear a dang mask, please. We actually, I should have noted too, that most of our family had gotten cause they were coming from driving from Montana, driving from California and my mom's. So from New Hampshire they don't mind the other ones coming in from California, Montana. They had been tested now, mind you, I know that there was a window between the test and the whatever, but at least it kind of gave us all like a sense of just, you know and my mom had been tested before she even flew. So it was just, those were the kind of the little things that we put into place for the people coming from out of town. And his mother had been tested. And so that was, that was kind of our safety net to of course, I don't know why I've been a little bit on pins and needles for like the 14 day window right now, but everybody's nice. Of course I sent a text when we got back and I was like, so we're all good.

(28:51):

And I mean, that's the thing is I think just doing the best you can. Like I said, our, you know, our one on Saturday they, they did have it was I, it was a legal kind of reception thing. You know, I got a little bit of flack for it because, you know, it's, it's like a reception or that's supposed to have reception. I mean, basically they had rented out like a whole section of like a restaurant and it was like just their family. And it was just you know, everyone was seated and everybody was, you know, whatever, but you know, the, the amount of care that, you know, that they put into it, you know, having the mask on walking to go cut the cake, that was just their cake that was taken away, you know, fresh cake was brought out from the kitchen, you know, they had their mascot.

(29:34):

I mean, I think no one's ever going to be perfect, but I think the more effort you can make, I just think people feel better, like, okay, like this efforts being made, right. Even obviously everybody's human and there's moments where, you know, you got to sneeze or you got to do whatever, but like, I just, you know, I, that was probably one of the best larger, you know, and it's still within the numbers, but larger with everyone really trying to cooperate it, you know, I had been a part of that. Cause like I said, most of ours had just been kind of like the five or six people, but seeing, you know, 30 people actually trying to stay in mass with us, it was nice to see, you know, the men. What would you guys say benefits, you know, we talked about, you know, more time being able to mingle and things like that. Other benefits, things maybe that people wouldn't think about that you guys found from having the, you know, more intimate ceremony, Bri, I see you nodding your head.

(30:27):

Yeah. I mean it was budget was great because it definitely, we lowered some costs in some places. And just to be completely honest, it was nice to reallocate some of those funds to cover other things, because we didn't have a big catering bill. We were able to reallocate those budgeted things to cover other costs that we had already planned for. And so budget was a huge one for us that we were actually, if we had pushed it, we would end up spending a lot more money than we originally had planned. And so budget, I mean that we were able to just sit in some Adirondack chairs with a Rainier, just hang out after we were married. And I could not tell you that we would be able to do that if we had another 80 people floating around and I feel like it was so relaxed and we, we weren't, we were, but we weren't on a timetable for the day where it was like, Hey, ceremonies around four.

(31:27):

And if that happens at four 30 or four 15, that's totally fine. And so for us, we were able to just slow down and really have those moments instead of just pushing through to the next thing and making sure the cake was set up for everything. And we were cutting it up a certain time. So that way we could have the lights where they needed to be for photos and sparklers. And there's all of these things that we wanted to still capture for our day, but it just made it so much more smooth to go through each of those special events without panicking that we're running out of time or someone's not in the right spot at the right time. So that was, those are the biggest things for us. Yeah. When it's like one of my like favorite memories of like, after the wedding was we had like a little dance force that I was probably like a 10 by 10. And I think you were with your family. And it was me, my brother and his girlfriend. And we were all like at a different corner of the dance floor, just dancing like idiots. And she came over and joined us. And so there's like us on each corner. Like not even planning on socially distancing, just for fun, just looking like

(32:40):

Ridiculous. It's just one of those where like, we wouldn't have had that moment with my brother and his girlfriend, like, and just sort of like letting our hair down and just it's on video. I'm sure. Like, I'm sure it's going to be our package, but it was just like one of those where like, we're like, cool, there is space to dance. Like this would have been packed if we had a huge running even like during like the heat during the summer, like it would have not been able to happen without like it being so small and just having like these small memory versus if we had everyone were like going in between each group of people and trying to do that, like, I don't think I would have so many just like distinct memories from that day without looking back at the video or pictures and being like, Oh yeah, that happened. Like, I actually am able to recall what happened.

(33:28):

I think cost is probably, I think our favorite thing, I think that was like right off the bat was like, Oh yeah. I mean, it was, I don't know. I mean, we, I knew 200 people was going to, we knew what was going to be expensive, but then when we started doing 17, I'm like, this is awesome. And we were able to like rent some things that like, maybe we couldn't have afforded for Oh, our signature cocktail. We had always wanted to do a Moscow mule is wishing to crush it. I'm like, there's no way we're doing that for 200 people then, you know, for 17, we not only did that, but we got everybody like a Moscow mule and it just was like, yeah. And it was like, it was just like little details that like, I, I kept saying, I'm like, I could've never done this for, you know, the number I thought.

(34:21):

And so that was so like you said, allocating funds to little, little details that I've always been obsessed with, but I didn't think we could actually do was fantastic. And just you're right. It's just like slow down. There's a moment in the night we were all sitting around the table. We had a really long table that had candlesticks all along it, so it felt like very, yeah, it felt like you were in a beach and we were also having an Easton. So there's in his family's home is run by solar. So there's, there's nothing out there. And so just like candle lights and bistro lighting going around, like it kind of felt, it felt surreal. You felt like you were in, I don't know, Italy or something. And we're sitting with our favorite people and drinking cocktails. We didn't think we could do. Yeah.

(35:11):

Reallocation of the funds I think is, is, so I said, you know, we all have the steak dinner on a Saturday. I'm like, you know, that probably wouldn't have been, you know, you can do a steak dinner at Palisade for, you know, 200 people or whatever it was originally going to be. But, you know, for 30 people, that's a little bit more cause even my wife, I was like, wait, why are you getting all the as well? Cause they, you know, you figure you're going to cater to 200 people and then you kind of set that aside and then, you know, and then you're able to do a lot more with a lot less, you know?

(35:40):

Yeah.

(35:42):

What's been the most challenging this whole time thing for everyone. I mean, you know, I know there's all this stuff with regulations and the change in staff. I mean just for people that are going through the same thing right now, but you guys have just gone through, I mean, what what's been, what's been some challenging stuff that you, that maybe people haven't been thinking about,

(36:01):

The hardest thing is when you have to decide who's not coming. Cause it gets personal real quick. A lot of times you can be like, all right, well, this group would be fine. So then you get down to people like my grandma, you know, my dad's brothers, he's very close with all of them. Yeah. It gets tough. Yeah. I think that's the hardest part. And yeah, my, my maid of honor, who's like my best friend is in Texas. And her husband that I think is still something that we're kind of like, God, I, they work from home like, should I have pushed you to come early? And but they were so worried about it and, and that's fine. I told him, you know, we'd had a conversation a couple times about it. That was definitely the biggest challenge. And two other, my bridesmaids too had just had babies or one was pregnant.

(37:03):

And so I called them right away. And I was like, first of all, I don't wait. Like, I don't want you to feel this pressure. I don't want you to in those conversations were challenging. I didn't really feel it with my family. Cause I was like, they're gonna support me. They love us. They are excited. But it was the, the really close ones. You know that, I mean like still talking about it, is it still a little hard cause and she feels that way too. She's like, God, I don't know. She's like, was I went, should I have worn something? Should they have done? Like, should we have driven? I don't know, but we're going to celebrate at some point. And it's like you had said, you know, these, this little bachelor party that you'll do at some point, we'll do that. We're going to do a girl's trip. And I never got the bachelorette party we had planned and it's gonna work out, but that that's the challenge is having to make sacrifices on relationships, personal relationships.

(37:53):

Yeah. It still seems super. I mean, super to you guys even now

(37:57):

Big time. Yeah. I mean, even for us, it was one of those where I had to call one of, I mean, I have family coming from all sides and it was one of those where I had to call one of my grandmas and let her know that she wasn't invited. And she was just like, are you sure? Like I can be there. Like I'll sit in the parking lot. And I, it just I'd say the, the family aspect and the close personal relationships that you have, those are the absolute hardest, because I mean, when you have a wedding, you want everyone to be there, everyone. And everyone's best friend, let's all have a party and just be married and do this. And I think it was really hard going from your plan a and then having to shrink it to something no one wanted, but like we said, it's everything ended up being perfect.

(38:50):

And so I don't regret it, but even our officiant who was also our hairdresser and a friend of mine from college who was going to be kind of like multiple trick pony here. And that was the wrong one, my bad. But but she had flown out for a funeral in Texas for a family member. And when she came back, she tested positive and she was like, don't worry, like 10 day period, three day rest period. And then it'll be fine. And I said, well, those 13 days add up to the day of so, and I mean, it was one of those where, like you said, it just, it still feels kind of raw and we want to talk about it. And she texted us on our one week and was like, how are y'all doing how's everything? And it just, it still doesn't feel great. But like you said, it's, it's all of those other small celebrations that we do get to have that not everyone gets to have. Usually it's a bachelorette and a shower and that's it. And we're fortunate where we do get to stretch it out as much as we want to, because as much as it sucked, it was really great. And now we just kept to get to keep making really cool memories that no one else really gets to have,

(40:12):

Obviously, you know no regrets, but if things, you know, looking back even now, you know, when is it a week and a half since you know, things that for other people that are going to be going through it now that, you know, things you wish you had done or, or advice, you know, for, Hey, make sure you think about doing that or, you know, we did this and we thought that was good. Any, any advice that way

(40:34):

I'd say, look out, look out for what is going to protect you and like your heart. And like, you know, you said calling family and we, I don't, I don't have any regrets, but I do think making those calls is tough. Looking out, reaching out to people. I mean, Bri and I obviously met in these Facebook groups and that, that was kind of the support we were finding. Cause I was like, you know, I was kind of feeling really, I was, I was having a hard time dealing with it cause I'm like, there's a lot going on in this world, but I'm blessed enough to have a party like and how, but yet I'm very sad. So how do I manage that? And how do we kind of manage that? And I think finding support groups and finding other women and other men that are going through this too, because one point I was a mess one day because I thought I couldn't get my hair and makeup done for my wedding. And I love doing that and I was totally distraught and I, and then later I was like, Oh my gosh, why am I distraught about this? And I very lucky to have a

(41:34):

Partner and a mom and aunts that were like, it's your wedding? Like this is it. You're okay. It's okay to cry about this. And I think it's allowing people to cry, allowing people to experience the emotions that are going to come with this and knowing that there's other couples out there going through it too. And knowing that people aren't alone, I think that's like the biggest advice I would give people is knowing that it's okay to cry about hair and makeup, it's okay to cry that these people can't be there or it's not the dance party that you expected, but go through those emotions, but know at the end of it, it's going to be awesome. Like it's gonna, it's going to be awesome when you get there. Yeah. I definitely agree with that. I like the support groups. I think I was part of like 10 different Facebook groups.

(42:16):

I would just like, kind of got a little overwhelming at times also knowing when it's okay to leave one of them when they become toxic, because it's like, I don't know if you're on like the Betches prides one, but there's some where it's like, I'm in Kentucky and I'm having a 300 person indoor wedding and I'm not allowing masks and in August, like beginning of August and I was like, you were absolutely insane. And there were so many times where people are like, well, I don't care if they don't trust. It's like, if they watch the news and believe in this virus, then like they don't have to come to my wedding. And I was like, are we living in the same world? Like, are we, is this like, what's happening here? Like, am I getting punked? And Brie actually had to leave some of those groups.

(42:56):

Cause it was just like post after post after post. And it's like, we're just trying to have like a 10 person wedding here. And like, we're second guessing if we think it's not only seeking out that support, but like acknowledging that like different parts of the country believe in very different things and have very different regulations. And it's like, I feel like, I mean, your family's on the East coast. Like I'm assuming they're in like the Northeast where things are sort of similar with viewpoints. And so New York got to hit super hard and people there understand like people in Seattle, California understand, but like seeing a lot of like the Midwest being like, or like even Florida, like I saw someone being like, Oh, well, like one of my bridesmaids was sick and then the bride and the groom got sick and like ended up being like 30 people out of like a 200 person indoor wedding.

(43:42):

And I was like, this is exactly what we're trying to avoid. And there was like, and so staying away from the cattiness of it, cause we're all emotional and we're all have very different viewpoints. And I think going back to like sticking your ground and like doing what's best for you, but also just sort of letting others sort of like live in their own world and just like not getting sucked too far into these support groups and just getting out of it, what you want to like, they definitely, some of them are definitely more for entertainment in my opinion. Yup. Find your support and then continue to make those hard decisions or make them early rip the bandaid. And then that way you can just kind of move forward with your plan instead of having a plan B or a plan like C D E and just narrow it down to what you're really looking for and the moments that are important to you.

(44:42):

Like for us, it was, we were really wanting father daughter dance. That was something we were both had to have. And so what did we need to do to have those things basing our decisions and what we were going to do around what we had to have instead of do I need to have Sally's best friends like cousin come and will that make me happy? It's those pros and cons and it's hard. And I think the other thing is stick to your decisions. Cause like I had a best friend that was still going to fly up here that week. She already had her take, so she was going to go visit her sister in Bellingham and rehabbing like, well, she can just come. And I was like, no, we already had like the hour and a half long FaceTime discussion. Like we, like, we've already ripped that bandaid off.

(45:25):

And I was like, we're doing immediate family. Like I don't want it then be like have one friend and then go back and forth. And I was like, and like, I'm very happy that we made a decision and stuck to it. And didn't like, we had some second guessing from time to time, but I'm glad we never reverted back on anything because it just made our lives that much easier. Like we never had to work on a seating chart. Like there's a lot of back and forth. We made decisions, we've talked to our vendors about them and then moved on. Like we didn't, once we thought about the decision we moved on with it and we're like, alright, this is set in stone. And I think that saved us a lot of heartache.

(46:03):

Yeah. Because you're always going to second guess. Right. I mean, that's tough to, you know what I mean? Still even afterwards. Right. I mean now even, you know, almost two weeks later, you're still like, well gosh, should we have done? You know, it's hard, it's hard. It's human, you know, to not to worry about that. Yeah. I just, the biggest thing, like I said before on the podcast is like, you guys said trying to make the best of what you can do and not dwelling on what we can't do because nobody, right. Like nobody can do it right now. I mean, it's, it's like every, it's an ex forever, you know, everything's lost every, you know, everyone's lost something and everyone then so yeah, just trying to make the best of what we can do. Cause I think like everyone's in the same, like stinky and kind of boat right now. And so we're just,

(46:44):

And we don't know when we can do it too. The other way to look at is we're making history. No one has had to do this before. And I think that's the other thing is like, you don't know. I mean, like we can be super stoked for 2021 or whatever, wherever you want it. Like January, February, March, we just don't know. And I think living in the unknown was causing more stress than just like you said, ripping the bandaid. I think there was a good couple of weeks there that I was living in this, like, did we go 50 75? What is the number I was making up numbers based on random things I was seeing on these phases being developed. And and that, that anxiety was not healthy. Like that was not a healthy spot to be in. And

(47:31):

Once you get there and like once you choose like make, go with it because it, it is hard. And you kind of in like from these Facebook groups, you do read a lot about these women and men making choices and they're like, you know, like, Oh, okay, well, we finally decided to either postpone or downsize and they're all like the relief life belt, I'm thinking it's huge. It's huge. And and I do, I, you know, like the not having receptions right now, man, I mean that is in defining receptions. I mean, what vendors are having to do, go through all of you guys. Like I, my heart goes out to you because there is so much gray area that is trying to figure that out and feel pretty lucky. We were on eight eight. Yeah.

(48:14):

Yeah. That was you know, I've, I've been a J supported the whole time, except for the, this, the, the kind of the date thing. And because we had got, I had the call from our bride that morning at like 10, 10 that morning and said, Hey, you know, we're canceling it. And then like three of that afternoon, the tweet came out or whatever. And I was like, wow, like this, you know, cause I mean, she canceled it, you know, five hours before I was like, wow, this is a, you know, it's, it's very real, you know, it's

(48:43):

Tell you what, Oh, big time we emailed our venue and they're like, Hey, so like we're watching James Lee right now. And, and we like, didn't hear back from him cause that's like okay, so this is bad. And then the next morning he's like, Oh, sorry. I was driving back from Idaho and see what happened. And I was like, all right, thank God. I thought this was bad news.

(49:11):

One extra question before we go is, is how did, how are your vendors with, you know, communicating? I've talked, my stance is I have communicated all the time with everything about everything, because I'd rather know that we're canceling or moving or postponing, but I know a lot of vendors have really been worried, right? Like, well, what if I email them? And then they'll, they'll remember that, like we're still booked and then what are we going to do if they want to cancel? Or I don't, you know, I don't know what they're thinking. Right. But they don't want to, how are your guys's vendors with communication and everything and moving stuff around

(49:47):

Ours were easy. Well, because we had moved I think the only big thing we had was the venue and they were awesome because at first I was like, Oh my gosh, are we about to lose so much money? We can't like, I don't like paying for parking. Like, so I'm like, I was so terrified about losing that money. And they were so awesome. They were like moving it to may, you know, that's fine. Who knows if we're gonna be able to have it. But everybody else, we still continue to work with. Our caterer, we, you know, had paid a deposit and our deposit ended up covering our, the 17 people and a florist, everybody else was just, we continued. The only thing is we cause everything was supposed to be in Snohomish. So our day of coordinator picked up everything that day and drove it out to Eastern.

(50:39):

So she was honestly just a friend of the family and picked up the food, picked up all the florals and drove it all the way from Snohomish out to Easton. And it kinda just, it all worked out. I will say the hardest thing we did was we rented a U haul truck to get some of, to get the rental and to get the rentals. Cause we were going to get married at Dairyland and I really loved the barn tables. Like I was obsessed with it and I was having a hard time parting with it, but we found them and we rented them. We've got a U haul and drove them all the way over there. And yeah, it was, it was very extra. I recognize that, but it was everything I wanted it to be and it was, and so that was probably like the logistics of it, but we stuck with all the same vendors and it was,

(51:34):

That's pretty sweet. What about you guys? I mean, did I, well, I guess even more back for back to you, like, did you, cause I just do appreciate, I just want to get her. I do appreciate people being communicative.

(51:46):

Yeah. Oh yeah. And I'm sorry. Yes, I did. I think right after the Inslee thing, the floors Ted text and asked, are you guys still like, are you still on? And I was, I was like, I don't know how to say this without sounding like, I'm about to break the law, but yeah, they're doing it. Like I don't want it. So I was like, yes. And I'm like, is that okay? And cause I knew there was this whole thing of like, can we even give them flowers? Can we give them the food? And so I immediately, you know, kind of shot an email out to everybody and I got a few emails back and they gave it a few days though. And I was kind of thankful for that because I think we're all trying to figure out what it all meant. And but yeah, they were, they, their communication was phenomenal and I was super thankful.

(52:29):

What about you guys?

(52:31):

Yeah, same for us. Everyone was just kind of checking in and if they hadn't heard from us, but they had heard from Jay, they would send us a quick email and just say, we're good. Still going after Jay's thing, we were all kind of like, all right, we still in touch. Like we're not canceling yet. Cause like everything was like very much Jason Porter, but like everything was so wishy washy. Like every time something comes out, it's like, even with the phases, it's like, there's always a grace period before I know something's going to be finalized. And so it was one of those we're like we put the feelers out and we're like, Hey, so we were watching the press release. Okay. So how do we feel about this? Okay. We're going to touch base in a couple of days. Great. But it's like, we really, at least monthly we're in touch with our vendors. Like the only one we didn't end up growing up was DJ because we were like, alright, I can't justify spending

(53:26):

$1,500 for like doing three songs on a playlist. And that was bummer. Like the big bummer for us because we really wanted the DJ for the movement of the folks. And beyond that, we can't, you can't make with a Spotify playlist. Like it just doesn't have the same effect. And so that was one where it was a hard one to let go, but we just couldn't justify it for the 10 people hanging out. And so that was the hardest one to let go. We really liked the guy we were going to work with. And so kind of backtracking here. It was really nice to have that communication and that the vendors were thinking about you and thinking about how we're going to do this. And sometimes it was nice not to be the first person and to be the panic, tried saying, Hey, I think we're going to do this still, but what are your thoughts?

(54:18):

And with catering, how is that going to work? Are we still going to do this? So yeah. And I think the other thing that helps is like we never plan on postponing. I mean I did have an additional charge postpone, but it was never like, I mean, I guess on the opposite side, we're not planning on starting a family. Anytime soon we have no, like there's no legal changes that really happens for us. Like we're just now married, but we just were like, okay, we've been waiting two years to get married. Like let's like, why would we postponed? We wanted our families there anyways. So like we'll figure everything else out, out, down the line. So we were open with our vendors from the get go that like, Hey, we're still doing this in August, as long as we were legally allowed to. So like, it's going to be less people, but like we're still on board if you guys are. And so we had a pretty open and I think that probably sort of eased like catering photo, video, like all of that. I think we place our floral order in July. So we were like, when the stuff, not from day, we're like, alright, we're getting $1,500 worth of flowers. And even if we're not allowed to have a reception, she can just set up the arch for our ceremony. And then we also have, and then everyone gets flowers.

(55:29):

You make it work. And so that extra communication, especially while we're having a wedding and we're grateful to have a wedding during a pandemic, it's that extra communication when you can get it. I really appreciated also to just like communicate like, okay, so we're going to have less people there. This is, these are all the extra things we're hoping to get. And like the photo set, like in our videos, like these are the moments where we're now adding on or like we have to take photos and family photos. And so we just like did whatever we wanted and like what Julia, like, she was like, all right, we're getting over here now. And we're like, cool. That sounds great. We just had that time without being like okay, every time. But we were able to communicate with her all summer about like, Oh, these are the people in my family. These are the people in breeze family. And just, I don't know. I think we probably had more open communication than we would have without which

(56:24):

Probably would have been helpful regardless of pandemic or not just super communicate, which probably, I guess when you have three weddings, a weekend might not be the best as a vendor, but you very much appreciated it. Yeah. It's definitely been yeah. More communication, but that's not always a bad thing. You know what I mean is we got to really know the couples this year, right? Like all the pills that are working really well, everybody thank you guys so much for just honest, you know, feedback and stories and feelings and stuff. I really appreciate it. I think it's just been really helpful. I guess we've talked with a ton of vendors and I think we need to talk with couples too about what's going on and I really, really appreciate you guys taking the time. You know, just kind of at the spur of a whim to hop on here and do this. Thank you guys so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Anything else before we go? Any final thoughts?

(57:22):

Awesome. Wow. Yeah. Well, this is normally the time that we plug all the vendor websites and everything, but obviously we don't have to worry about that. So thank you guys so much. If you're a couple, a vendor that's listening. If you have questions, you can go to www.bestmadevideos.com/survey and I have all vendor types by category. And if you have any questions and we do these round tables every week, trying to figure out different stuff. And it's been a lot of Kobe talk right now, obviously, but hopefully eventually we'll move past that. And I really, I just appreciate this again. You guys, thanks so much. Thank you.

Episode 11 - Micro Weddings

(00:07):

Thank you all so much for joining today. I think it's great to get an eclectic group together. And I was happy to see so many people join on when I was doing the call to find out, you know, there's so many photographers and so many talented ones, and it's so hard sometimes getting these round tables and just, you know, you want to ask everyone to the dance, but you just can't. You know, you just can't. So thank you so much, Dan, Irene and Satya for joining us today we're talking about micro weddings also known as, you know, elopements or small weddings. I've seen so much of this lately. You know, what is it what's involved in that? What do I do from my timeline? What's my photographer going to help me with, you know, what, whether some ideas. And so I kind of want to tackle all of that stuff today. So Irene, why don't we start with you? Why don't you introduce yourself and then we'll go around the horn and then we'll get going with some of the questions.

(00:58):

I'm Irene Jones of IJ photo. I've been a wedding photographer for 20 years and I love it as everybody in the industry says, but this year has been a rough one. So I'm excited to talk about ways that we can help our businesses and help our clients find good solutions for 2020, and possibly beyond.

(01:18):

And Dan, thank you so much for joining us too. I know you even have a wedding today, a micro wedding that you're taking the time to do this before. So I really appreciate that coming on early to do that. Why don't you tell us who you are and what you do? Yeah, so I met Dan of Dan Manning Photography and I do weddings in general, especially trying to focus on a lot of adventure type stuff. So naturally a lot of it kind of lines up really well for me with mints in general. And then, yeah, so I've just been really working on making the transition to doing more micro weddings and elopements and all that, as opposed to traditional weddings and yeah, as Irene said, it's been a challenge this year for sure. But you know, that's, that's the thing that we can really do is pivot with it and try to make it great still and, and give people a great experiences. Perfect. And a CTO who are you?

(02:07):

Hi, I'm Satya Curcio from Satya Curcio photography and I'm based up in the San Juan islands and do some things in Seattle. But yeah, that's me. I've been doing this for about 13 years and small weddings. It hasn't been a huge transition for me working up here, but you know,

(02:32):

But that's good. You have some expertise. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. And we were talking a little bit before the podcast. I mean, I just think generally my trend of thought lately on here has just been, trying to focus on ways that we can do things, you know, focusing on positives, you know, making the best of your ceremony, making the best of kind of just a really crappy hand that we, you know, everyone's been dealt. And I think that there is still so much value in having these micro weddings or small weddings. We just had a whole really great discussion last week with a fishing it's Ray van Winkle and Elaine way and Chanel Carlin on there talking about how there's just been a lot of mentality lately that I've seen people post, Oh, we're going to do our real wedding next year. We're just going to do a little thing this year.

(03:16):

It's not, you know, whatever. And you know, I don't, I've talked with some of these couples, right. You know, and we've booked some of 'em and you do sense that not like sadness, but just like, well, you know, we're just kinda, this is what we have to do. And I don't want that to be the mentality. I want us to be, you know, excited. I know you guys are excited. I know that you can almost get better photos across the board, you know, just having the couple or just having small groups. So I want to focus on all the, the positive things today. So first off, I just think each of you, you know, what is a micro wedding to you or this a little thing, you know what, whether it's just kind of your general thoughts about it and Satya, we can go with you and loop back around.

(03:55):

Okay. Definition of a micro wedding. Well, I mean, technically right. It's like under, I don't know if there's a technical term, but my neighbor who is a wedding consultant was saying it's under 30 people. And but now it's different, right? So a micro wedding, elopement, glorified, elopement, I call them where, you know, you elope and you have like 10 friends and family there, and then you have a nice, usually a nice little thing afterwards. That's kinda my definition or just an elopement, right? The two of you and your dog and be efficient.

(04:40):

Yeah. It's funny. It seems like the, the, you know, we use the term of weldment for a long time. And then I dunno if there was like weird connotations about like running away and getting married in the night or whatever. And I feel like some planner on the East coast came up with like the term micro wedding. Right. We're all kind of rolling with that. Dan, what are your thoughts about this? I know it's something you're really passionate about. Yeah. I mean, for me, you know, my own wedding, we had 32 people including ourselves. So we kind of already did that on our own. And having worked in the wedding industry for a long time, I recognize to me what's important and that was connecting with the closest people to me and spending the most amount of time with them and not a bunch of strangers.

(05:18):

So for me, I love the concept of having a really small wedding. And I think that there's a lot of really great benefits in having that more intimate kind of connection in a smaller place. And surely the way I've always separated. It is a wedding is where two people get married, but there's a party that is involved and a marriage is where you actually just get married. And that's really the true core part of, of what we actually do. And what the process actually is is the people actually joining their connection and love together. And so for me, you know, you remove more of the party aspect and you focus who on the actual individual a couple, and that, that beauty of that, and to me, that's where

(05:58):

The, it kind of gets like hyper-focused. So I've always really loved that aspect of like really connecting with the true real emotions and relationships that actually exist.

(06:07):

That's great. And Irene, what about you? I know you've been around a long time and seen a lot of different stuff.

(06:14):

Don't give away my age reign.

(06:16):

You started it, you started in elementary school.

(06:19):

Thank you. I actually do a lot of big weddings normally. And so I generally am used to these gigantic parties with 400 people. My own wedding was like that we had 9 million people at this venue. And so it was I have been doing engagements, allotments and micro weddings, but they've always been a smaller portion of my business. So this year has been really great because it's challenged my creativity and I kind of have loved the opportunity to throw out the rules and reset expectations and start with something new. And like Dan was talking about it does really provide you opportunities to focus on relationships and focus on what's really meaningful. And that has been really fantastic. So I think that we really just have to kind of reframe the conversation with our couples and say, Hey, what's the good, like you were saying, read about this. What can we pull up? It's really positive. And let's put those expectations for that big gigantic party to the side, and really focus on that in a different time, because the era that we're living in requires a new set of circumstances and really the only things that we can control at this point are attitudes.

(07:30):

Yeah. That's great. Do you guys find that the couples you're talking with now and whether you're you're planning to do a micro wedding or they're downsizing, do you find, like I was saying that there is a little bit of sadness about that or as opposed to, you know, what, what are the positives Irene? I see you nodding.

(07:49):

Oh yeah. I have a very sweet couple that just got married this last weekend that were devastated because they have a lot of family from out of town. I have another couple who were supposed to get married in August and August, April, and they've rescheduled three times at this point. And they have family from China that they may never see again if they can't come for this wedding. So there is a lot of loss there and I feel like the grief is necessary and processing it is hard. And I've been trying my best to be really empathetic for those situations, because I know that if my grandma hadn't been able to come to my wedding, it would have been really, really hard for me because those relationships, sometimes the only times we really get together are in those big wedding events. You know,

(08:34):

Dan, what about you? How are your couples handling that?

(08:37):

Yeah, I mean, it's tough, you know, especially when it comes to like grandparents live out of state and can't come here. And so couples are definitely having a hard time with that one. And that's the thing that I've tried to remember throughout this wedding season is, you know, we, in this group, we view this through our side of the wedding business side of it, and it sucks

(08:56):

For us, but what, we also have to remember that on the flip side of that for our clients, there's a lot of things that are below the surface that we don't necessarily see it off of that where, you know, they're having to reschedule like three times, like Irene said, and, you know, even if they're getting down to like where it was before 30 guests, there's a lot of people who they really care about that just can't be there. And yeah, it's, it's really sad, but on the flip side of it people are, I think, are having great attitudes about it for the most part and really getting it. It's really cool if people are getting really creative in a lot of ways, they're doing things. So it's, it's really interesting to kind of see everything morphing. And I hope that longterm there's a lot of really great things that kind of come out of this, that we learned about ourselves as, as humans and society. And we can actually make things better in the future for a long time,

(09:47):

Just as a note, there's 30 people on just my mom's side. So I totally understand when people are like, I can't just narrow it down to my immediate family. My immediate family is like half of the state of Utah.

(10:02):

What about you? How are your couples? I know you said you kind of focus a little bit more on the smaller weddings anyway, but are, are you finding positivity or how's it been going?

(10:11):

Yeah, I think everybody has kind of a a S a grain of disappointment obviously, but it's also extremely stressful to plan a wedding. I mean, you imagine that you're you've never planned a party before, and you're like inviting all these people and especially up in the San Juan islands to, and I mean, I'm just stressed out for these people just thinking about it. I'm like, but, you know, people want to get legally married for, for very important reasons. And you know, obviously you like Irene, I can, I can understand the sentiment of wanting your friends and family to witness that. So I'm trying to hold space for people. And but people have been really, you know, before the mandate got a little stricter, I did have a couple of weddings where they had hand sanitizer from local hand sanitizer all around and like little masks made from the local print shop here that had their names on them. And, you know, just it ended up being joyous. I had to step back a few times and be like, Oh my gosh, is this sad or happy? And then I realized, okay, everybody's having a great time. So they're staying, you know, they're staying far away from each other and yeah, so people are making the best of it.

(11:30):

And this might be obvious questions to answers to you guys, but, but just for the sake of people asking as photographers what are some benefits to having a micro wedding you know, being able to downsize and, and focus on a couple, Dan, let's start with you. What are, you know, if you were hearing like, Hey, we're this awesome couple, and we're going to get married out in the woods and it's going to be like 10 people. And yeah, I mean, there's benefits to that.

(11:55):

I mean, obviously I talked about it before, as far as the intimate connection part, and that's obviously, I think pretty clear the other part that a lot of people don't think about is the fact that planning a big wedding is really stressful and it's really expensive. So it definitely saves you a lot on that. One of having to invest as much money and emotional investment into all the planning process for me as I'll tell people. And I'm very open about my experience as a wedding vendor for me, the best part of my wedding was actually the honeymoon. So one thing that's really cool about having a micro wedding is the fact that you also save a lot of money or you can put towards a really amazing honeymoon and then, you know, still have money to buy expensive houses in the Seattle area.

(12:42):

So, yeah, there's some really great benefits for sure. I read. What do you think? Well, you're not dictated to, for a lot of the details. A lot of times venues will say, this is your ceremony time. That's when we do the ceremony every single time. And generally that's the worst time of day for photographers to shoot outside. And so just being able to say to a couple, Hey, if we're only, only do like three hours, let's do your ceremony at a time of day when the light is gorgeous and the sun is setting behind you and they ultimately get much better quality images and they don't have guests standing out the 10 people that are coming in the hot sun. So, I mean, I think you get a lot more control and that's nice.

(13:22):

So that's what you think of.

(13:25):

Well, I agree with both of you. And what I found at my own wedding was that I didn't really have a complete conversation with anybody anyways the whole day and from a photographer's perspective, I mean, I do a lot of small weddings and elopements up here. And a lot of people hire me to just go around the Island with them and go to some magical spots that they truly love and connect with each other, and really just focus on the reason why they're getting married, you know, versus we were throwing a party.

(14:04):

Yeah. The biggest thing for me, and I've talked about it before in the podcast is I know last year it felt to me, like we had gotten some weddings where, you know, by, by the eight and nine hour Mark, like people are done, you know, bride and groom, or, you know, the couple, whoever they're done, people are tired. Do you want to go do sunset photos? Some of them don't even want to go do it. You know, we're like what's going on. And you know, it, it seemed to me like there was just a lot of burnout burnout, and people were, you know, doing these big elaborate and 10 hour packages and 250 people and trying to talk to everybody and all this stuff. And like, I do think, you know, being able to just say like, Hey, what's important to us and spend three or four hours and not have to go do all that I think is, I just think there's a lot of value to that than having to, you know, well, my mom wants us to do, and you know, my family, you know, my inlaws want to do this and someone wants to do that.

(14:56):

And now you're like, well, we can't do any of that. So let's just kind of do, but I don't think, you know, hopefully that some of this will continue in the future of, of being able to do things that we want to do. I know that one of the questions a lot, and, and I, we, we just booked a smaller, a micro wedding for a couple of weeks from now is the planning, you know, people, you know, they don't know how to plan things, you know, timeline. And obviously not to you know, I'm a big proponent of wedding planners and we love wedding planners and you can hire, you know, planners for, you know, small weddings and large weddings, but as photographers, you know, how does that work with you guys in the couple? Do you, do you help, you know, construct that and the idea and stuff, Irene, let's start with you.

(15:37):

Yeah, I generally do. I think that having a planner, no matter the size of your wedding is really helpful because they're going to have more expertise than a photographer would. What I'm really good at and helping with is how long it's going to take for photos. And generally that doesn't change. Even if you're having a micro wedding. I still want an hour with my couple at the very least. And I still, if they've got 15 people that I still need at least 30 minutes to do group photos, especially for social distancing, those people, it takes a little bit more effort to get people to look like they're on the cover of Vogue. And so it's, it's a little bit more finessing, so that time is still going to be there. Getting ready if you're doing that is going to take some time as well at a first look, always takes the same amount of time.

(16:20):

That's good advice, Dan, what do you think?

(16:24):

Yeah, I'm actually like really involved when it comes to my couples. I'm a location junkie. So I always have like Epic locations. I'm always driving to and scouting and taking my kids on an adventure is to find ethical implications and all that. Like these guys I've been doing this a long time. So luckily I know a lot of awesome vendors that people need help with vendors. I really love helping windup with my, my couples with awesome vendors and all of that. And I'm a people person, Irene we're close friends, and she goes to me a lot of crap about how, like, I become like really close, like friends with pretty much all my clients and all that. So for me, I, I really do invest a lot of time and, and connection with a couple of holes. And so the more that I find that I connect with my couples, the better experience it is for them, and it just helps to make it special.

(17:13):

And yeah, we get the line up, like the lighting and the, and the best time of the day in the best locations. I had one, if I can get one little anecdote, I had one, couple of where I shot there at Diablo Lake in the North cascades. And we went to, I think, four different locations. So at the end of the day, they, they were like, that was amazing. Like every location we went to here, you were just saying how the lighting was just perfect. And every spotlight where we were, and then she was like, wait, did you plan that? And I was like, yeah, because I give them exact times, like when maybe at each spot. And she seriously was like, it seemed like it was like, you planned it out. And I'm like, I did. And she was just jaw on the, and completely blown

(17:50):

Away, you know, every location we went to at the exact right time. Like, but, you know, that's, that's what these guys do. I mean, does that insomnia does that, you know, we, we put in the effort to give our clients that kind of experience overall, and it's great with micro weddings. Cause it gives us all the flexibility to do so. That's great. Yeah. It's so it's tough sometimes when you're fighting the timeline or you got, you have the planners and you know, and obviously, you know, Hey, we got to start dinner, we've got to do whatever. And you know, I, we had a same, you know, like, you know, no interactions all day, you know, no first alert, no anything and just like ceremony, boom, okay. We go out you know, bridal party, boom, okay. Do each side. And then we got, you know, it's like two seconds with the bride and groom.

(18:33):

It's like, okay, either we really got to go in and you're like, Oh my gosh. You know, like, can we just, you know, you just wish like, you know, Dan, that you could just plan everything exactly how you want it, which I think is, is great that you, I wouldn't even know how to do all of that. So that's great that you, that you know, how to time all that and figure out all that stuff. Cause I'm always as kind of the dummy falling along with the video camera in the background. So that's good. I'm glad that that's great. Satya, what about you and, and planning and you know, how, how are you going with the couples and figuring out the timelines and things?

(19:01):

Well, Irene kind of took the words out of my mouth because it's really literally no different timing as far as photos and taking the photos and how many, how much time you need to do each section, right. Just depends on, you know, what the client's budget is versus what they want to do for the day and how they want the feel of their day. And I mean, I plan out people's timelines and I give them to them. And then if their planner wants to do a little tweaking or whatever, then we discuss, but there's always with the super small allotments, you know, it just, there's always little things that come up sometimes. Well sometimes there are little things that come up on the Island, like someone's you know, the officiant might get lost or, you know, there's some, there's some little things that, that bring kind of these magical moments to the day up here when I can really see how flexible or relaxed my couple really is.

(20:04):

I mean, it doesn't happen often, but that was kind of a, something that came to me one time, a, an officiant was pretty late coming and she wasn't necessarily a professional, but they hired her because she was a storyteller and she was from the Island and, you know, people really come here and they want to experience the people of the Island and the people of the Island, you know, on occasion don't move as fast as the people off the Island. But that was actually a rare incident. I have to say, we have amazing professionals up here, but it came to mind like just being flexible is like the name of the game. Right.

(20:43):

Do you find, yeah. Do you find that people are more in that way and I guess we'll go around too, but do you find that just being able to just not have all that stuff that you guys get better photos and get better connections and get better moments. Dan, talk to me about relaxation with couples. Yes,

(21:03):

Yes. Story about it. Some couples definitely are pretty chill at big weddings and all that because that's like, they like all this stuff going on and all that, but for the most part, yeah, it tends to be a lot less because it's just less easy

(21:24):

Irene. Yeah. It's got a story.

(21:27):

I had a micro wedding out in Goldbar and this couple was pretty chill in the first place, but because we had small group of people and we had no real timeline that we had to stick to ceremony was over. Lighting was great. And we were headed out to the spot by the river that they wanted to shoot at. And we happened to pass Zeke's and everybody knows Zeke's if you drive highway two, it's got fantastic milkshakes. And they were like, that's it. We gotta stop for Zeke Spang. So we stopped, we pull up, you know, they're getting their their food and everybody at Zeke's is buying them something. So we left with like hamburgers and French fries for all of these other random strangers. And I got some super cute pictures of them, you know, with the Zeke sign and their milkshakes and stuff. And then we went to the river and she's like, well, my wedding's done. So I might as well just get in. So she's, you know, up to her waist in wedding dress and water and that stuff you just can't do on the day of, and that's so fun to be able to have that freedom to really be yourself and allow your personality to be more important than necessarily what you look like.

(22:33):

Awesome. Satya thoughts about relaxed couples on the wedding day with micro weddings?

(22:39):

Well, like I said, I think that, you know, each place lends itself to it's to attract the people. And I kind of, I don't know, maybe I'm lucky, lucky in a way that I attract very relaxed people. I mean, their main concern is that they're going to look funny in front of the camera or something. And I actually, haven't had a really strung out couple and a long time. What'd you say, I'm jealous, you deal with a little more volume than me, but you know, I, when I like working with the energy of a bigger wedding also don't get me wrong. But I think, I dunno what I'm saying, but I just feel like the people that somehow I attract or are kind of relaxed by nature and want that experience. They don't, they're, they're coming to a place that's hard to get to. And yeah. Well, I'll just go ask my therapist about that and see if, what my energy is really giving. Maybe that's the problem. No, no, nothing about you. I think it's about the size and like the location and all the, you know, I'm just teasing, I read you were talking,

(24:03):

You can about you know, after the wedding, you know, going and getting the food and stuff, hopping in the river. And I do think there's a question a lot about that, and I've seen it posted and stuff too. Like, Hey, you know, we're, we're getting married, we're doing this micro wedding, you know, we're going to be done at two o'clock or four o'clock or, you know, like, what did we do, right. What do we do? You know, obviously we're not going until midnight or whatever, you know, like a normal weather weather. And obviously this is like a personal question for everybody, but you have ideas and stuff. I mean, I've even had people, we did one out in the peninsula and they took the ferry into Seattle and like went to a club and went dancing. And obviously we can't do that right now, but I mean, talk about just like you said, that that was a great story to some of the creativity and ease that you can have, you know, following the wedding and, you know, getting a cool Airbnb somewhere. I don't know. I mean, I know people are like wanting ideas about like fun stuff to do

(24:58):

Well for my own wedding, we actually got married on a Thursday and we got married in Portland and then we were done by five o'clock. So my husband and I took off for the, and this is 15, 16 years ago. We took off for the little Ben breakfast that we were at. And it was fantastic because we had the whole, the entire evening to just relax. And he had been living in a different States and up until like the week before we got married. So it was really nice to just have some time to just be stress, really enjoy just being together. And we went to a movie that night. I know movies, aren't a thing right now, but I mean, we, you could totally have, you know, something that you wanted to that you're always like, I'm wanting to go do this thing, but we can't do this thing to find a way to make it work. I know of another couple that a friend had a pool table in their Airbnb, so they all went and played pool

(25:56):

Easy. Dan, what about you fun, fun stuff for the end of the day after a micro wedding.

(26:03):

Yeah. I mean, it's all over the place. I think that one thing, you know, if we talking about like, what's happening now and like what people can do now I know that like restaurants are still open to certain capacities and when I've gone out to restaurants, I have, they've done a great job of actually separating tables really far. And having people put on sanitizer before they go in. So I know people are actually going to, sorry, my kids are screaming in the background. This is real life. This is what we're dealing with. People are going out to dinner afterwards and, you know, having nice little intimate dinners. I'm actually shooting a elopement today at tree house. And the couple actually I think got it catered

(26:44):

Just for the two of them, but they actually got a really cute picnic and they're having a boho picnic there at tree house point after they got married. And then their plan is to actually after that and get some fun photos. So a lot of them I've had as far as like allotments, where it's like in the mountains and all that, and then they get married and they go on a hike and go have an adventure together. So each couples on personality and relationship and like their interests kind of like guide that direction as far as what you can do. But like I said before, with all this stuff going on, it's really a interesting opportunity to actually really think, get creative and really think outside the box, you know, American kind of Western wedding has always kind of have a similar like form factor that everything kind of falls into. This is a really cool opportunity to see people actually like get creative, like I said, and really make things their own unique way.

(27:39):

Yeah. I think that's great advice there. I just, I think we've all been just so locked into like this, you know, you get a timeline from a planner, like you hardly even need to look at it. Right. Okay. We're doing this or we're doing that. And I do. I think that that's just such a great sentiment that did just make it your own and kind of throw that, you know, the playbook out the window and just, you know, really do whatever you want. Satya, what about you? What about, you know, post wedding and I'm sure you guys have fun stuff on the Island, but just in general, like hikes and stuff. I mean, you can kind of go do whatever you want, right.

(28:08):

Yeah. I mean, actually the wedding that I thought it was similar to what Dan mentioned, it was at Mount Mount Rainier and the the couple actually had everybody spend the night, you know camping at camp, a hunt up Akash, and they rented out, you know, they, they reserved the camp sites and I mean, this was many years ago, but it would still apply because, you know, any, any way everybody had their own campsite. And then they had a little ceremony, actually, we got kind of kicked out of our ceremony spot and ended up doing the ceremony on the side of the road. But yeah. And then we, I went on a hike with a couple and we did like a portrait session and that was beautiful. And then they had just like a little, you know, at the time they could do this, just like a picnic around the fire with donuts.

(28:57):

And it was really cute. But I do love that idea. I've heard of some people doing, like having boxes plan. So like you do the wedding and then people take their boxed meal and go have a picnic. Some people I've heard of like have done like a hashtag and they send them to like one of their favorite spots or just like laying out blankets, like really far apart. And everybody having their little picnic. But yeah, right now, I guess we have to have people that are actually moderating whether or not people are mingling actually mingling or not. Right. Cause that's the, that's the thing. Yeah.

(29:38):

It's just, it's so interesting. We did that a live stream like two weeks ago and the couple was Italian. And so we had to do it like at 10 in the morning cause everyone was, you know, on like Italy time and they're like often Venice, like drinking wine and watching it, whatever. But yeah. Then like we got done like at two in the afternoon, you know, and they're like, Oh, we're just gonna, you know, get in the hot tub or hang out, you know, it's just like, whatever, you know, cause I said, you know, we all packed up and said, man, I don't need, I mean, I'm exhausted without even though you're going to do the rest of the day, but it, but it was, you know, it's just really freeing just to kind of just be with your loved one and just kind of hang out.

(30:14):

I think it's cool. I wanted to talk about pricing and just in obviously it's, you know, individual to everybody, but just in general, you know, micro wedding pricing, how are you guys handling it? How are people handling it? You know, I know with like video stuff, you know, we had like these really small elopement, like two hour things, but now we're getting into this. Like, you know, it it's a little bit bigger, so it's tricky. So obviously don't feel like what you're saying applies to everybody in the world. But I do just want to get a common sense of kind of what's going on with micro wedding pricing and everything. Let's start with you.

(30:46):

My pricing hasn't changed much. I had micro wedding pricing in the first place, but I have shown a lot of flexibility for clients and allow hourly packages and things like that because there is so much variation. I think that a good vendor is going to be able to show to their client. Yeah, I can work with what you need and we can find something that works. That being said, I mean, we're still doing the same job, even if there isn't a ton of guests and it is a lot of work and a lot of planning like Dan explained. So I would be wary as a bride and groom or a couple to have a vendor that was giving incredibly deep discounts for allotments. And that, because what they're really doing is they're shortchanging you, they should be putting in the same amount of work and they should be giving you the same amount of attention.

(31:32):

That's great feedback and good job on the already having the microwave print. You're so smart. You're so smart. Dan, what about you?

(31:42):

I read is very smart by the way. Yeah, no, she's, she's absolutely brilliant has been doing this a long time and she has a concept professional and a lot of us for sure. Yeah, my pricing has already actually been in place as well for elements anyhow. And just like Irene said, I also have been being very flexible. As I talked about before this year sucks for us as vendors, but it also sucks for the couples. And I recognize that I know a lot of people have already lost like deposits for a and use and potentially even other vendors and all that. And as much as possible, I'm making sure that I'm staying profitable and I may vote pay my bills because I want to keep doing this forever. But I'm still working with people when I can and getting creative with my packages and all of that. So that if, you know, someone has a very specific set of needs that doesn't exactly fit into the box of my normal elopement. I'm able

(32:40):

To get creative with them and still make it work.

(32:42):

Yeah. It's tricky cause yeah, it just you're, you're getting yeah, just where it's like multiple hours and it's not, it's not quite, you know, I just, and I always so bad cause I always wanted to be the guy that has like the package for everything. Cause then you just feel like you're more prepared, but like you said, it's, it's not, it really isn't a one size fits all and it almost is better having that flexibility and being able to work with people. Cause I felt like, well, if I'm, you know, if they feel like I'm making stuff up, then maybe it's like, well what's really going on here, but now, I mean, it is this, it's all about communication right now with your vendors and just really kind of figuring out what, what the right fit is. Satya. What about you and in pricing and you know, micro wedding versus, you know, normal wedding pricing.

(33:24):

I do custom quotes for everybody. Just because I've found that I had some packages, but they were kind of based on like having people customize them anyways. And I just found that it was better that way, but for the smaller weddings, I mean for, I'm always like I start out kind of a little clenched. Like I need my things to be all the way that I want them to be. And I had a experience earlier this year where a couple was like, well, you know, we want to split our coverage and I never split coverage. They're like, we want to like do our ceremony in the morning and then have you come back at five or six and then do the other half of the event. And you know, my initial was like, Oh no, I don't split coverage.

(34:13):

But then I was like, well, why not? You know, like I actually went home and took a nap and had like four hours off and like had some food and recovered from like, you know, the physical exertion of the first half of the day where you're just like, it's the most where you're running around and then it's the ceremony. And I was like, Oh, I could take a nap right now. That'd be great. And I was like, why doesn't everybody do this after that? And I'm like, I mean, I'm, I'm not available for the whole day anyways, anyways, I'm not going to promote that, anything to my clients, but maybe I will. I like, I like to afterwards, I was like, wow, you should, you know, sometimes if you try new things, you end up liking them. So I'm trying to be a little more flexible and also I have pretty clear DHEAS of what I need to charge in order for me to feel like it's gonna benefit my time and effort. And as Irene said, it's the same amount of work, the same amount of, of, you know, I have the same business costs. So no matter if I do five small weddings or 10, $20,000 weddings, I still have the same exact, you know, cost of doing business. So

(35:34):

Are you guys do it talking about the split, you know, we've had, you know, some of the couples get married this year or they're moving stuff to next year. I mean, I don't know if that even, you know, doing like a micro wedding now and then whatever. I mean, I've just personally, I've been trying to just like move whatever and then add on like a ceremony or whatever thing now, as opposed to like splitting or whatever. I mean, are you guys, am I out of left field? Are you guys having questions about that too? About, you know, trying to deal a little bit now I'm a little bit next year or, and what are your thoughts on that? Dan? I see you nodding,

(36:12):

Oh, like one of my couples this year, they were supposed to have a really like fantastic wedding at the Foundry and Soto and you know, like a pretty big wedding and they ended up having to push it to a backyard wedding and the hours of coverage went down and I do up to eight hours or up to 10 hours of coverage when they cut it down to like four hours, because that was really kind of all they could do. So my creativity that worked for them as I'm just going to take those hours and convert that into an anniversary session for them next year, and we're just going to do an anniversary session. And so I won't charge them any kind of session fee including I have like adventure upgrades that people pay more, more, more money for to go to like really Epic places.

(36:53):

And so I'm giving them like the upgrade to the adventure session for you and all that like package and doing that as a no cost option for them. And they were totally happy with it. So it's, like I said, it's a matter of being creative and working with clients and still striving to create a really high level of customer service experience for them. But making it work for them so that it makes them feel really good. So I about you, I just have been encouraging my clients just to ask, like, don't be embarrassed. Just ask you a question, we'll have an honest conversation and if I can't do it for you, like if it's physical impossibility, I'll let you know. I pride myself on being straightforward and honest and really clearly communicating with my clients what is possible. And I feel like that's something that works really well for both parts, because then they don't feel like, Oh, I can't ask this thing or this is, this is going to be disrespectful. It's more like, Oh, well I'm trying to be creative. I'm trying to find a new option. How can you help me with that? And a lot of times we come up with better solutions together. So I would encourage everybody to just ask your vendor the question and say, Hey, I'm not trying to be offensive, you know, but how does this work for you? Cause I know everybody's a little bit different and I am sure 99% of the people out there are going to love that you want to talk to them and have that conversation.

(38:13):

Yeah, it's, we've we've rescheduled probably for this year and next year, probably 30 weddings now in terms of postponing and then reschedule. And there's only one that we've had, you know, any sort of issue with. And it was the one that just emailed and was like, this is what's happening the da. And you know, because I back in March and then whatever and whatever, when this different stuff have come out, have tried to be you know, really honest and whatever. And like you said, just, you know, you need to ask and if you don't ask and then it's, then I can't, I can't help you. Right. If there's no question that I can't give you an answer and if I just get an answer, so yeah. I just think being, you know, asking, can we do this? Can we do that? And it's not it's not offensive. It's it's, you know, I guess it could be, but generally it's not.

(39:02):

What are you asking

(39:06):

For free though? No, I'm just, you know Satya, what do you, what do you think about that? About you know, the, I can't even remember what the question was, whatever we were talking about,

(39:17):

I was just admiring you for repeating the questions. Then you didn't do it. I I've been offering you know, couples that are keeping their booking for next year, their full booking just a waiver. I waived my minimum hourly so that they can have me, like if they want to come here and do a quick elopement for two hours on a Saturday and I'm not booked or the Saturday that they have booked, then I will just not have my six hour week minimum or weekend minimum. So that's kind of what I've been doing. And it's been really well received. And you know, I think that it's like people who have booked in 2019 for their 20, 20 wedding have gotten 2019 pricing. And then 2021 pricing was, is like two times different or two steps more than the, you know, so there there's a little bit of education I haven't really had to do too much, but it is something to think about that, you know, a 2021 wedding would have been a different price than what they paid two years ago for their wedding then. So I've had really understanding and it's all worked out well for me, but I know that there's been a lot of drama out there. So with, with people having to figure out and navigate everybody's personal desires and budgets and I think it's important cause everybody does all the couples do have their own initial idea of what they think they should get or what Dave paid for. And it's our job as professionals to be very clear with them. And, you know, I think the more clarity, the easier things are. So

(41:17):

Yeah, just in with the pricing thing too, that we, you know, we book a lot of weddings in South, like the wedding show, right. And so we do you know, like incentives and whatever to book as I'm sure, you know, Irene we're next to each other at the, you know, nearby each other. And you know, that was a lot of our weddings, right? Like we had just booked him in January and February on like, Hey book, you know, within 30 days or whatever and get whatever. And then, you know, yeah. Now we're pushing the thing two years in. You're like, well, that's not really, it doesn't really, you know, it's really, it's different than book of January on a little bit of a discount for, you know, that June versus, you know, okay, we're holding it off for, you know, year and a half.

(41:55):

So yeah, it's, it's definitely, but you know, just having those conversations and saying like, Hey, we need to, you know and I haven't had you know, any of the, any of the weddings that we've had to like charge like is I'm not trying to call it like a rescheduling fee, but you know, any of the weddings we've had to do that had been understanding because of you know, everything that's going on. Last question today for you guys, you know, I tried to get a lot of couples listening to this and we'll post it in the wedding groups and stuff. If I'm a couple that, so getting married this year, trying to plan a micro wedding what should I be thinking about, what should I be planning? You know, it could be anything from getting ready stuff, you know time management, you know, anything else I don't know where you guys want to take it and I know it's kinda open-ended, but Satya, let's start with you. If I'm someone that's planning the microwave team right now what should I, what it was something that I could do to set myself up for success, kind of, you know, moving forward

(42:52):

The least amount of people as possible. I mean, I think that I think there's some things that are important to me as a vendor, which is again, bringing the clarity into it being very clear and respectful of people's individual health choices and looking and carefully looking at the mandates and being very clear and honest with your vendors about any health concerns and also setting everybody up for success and feeling safe for coming to you. Because I think that that is really the most important part to me as a vendor. And I think that's going to be important to you, the trust of your family and guests that might be coming that, that you're stating a certain thing. Like everybody's going to have masks and everybody's going to have hand sanitizer and we're going to do this, but then if people show up and that's not happening, that's really you know, that's really hard. So that was my main, my main advice or thoughts on that.

(44:00):

Irene knows a little bit about that, huh?

(44:03):

Yeah. I recently had an event that wasn't exactly honest with us as vendors about it. And I remember I loved this couple beforehand. I had such a good contact with them and then really feeling like I was lied to about something, it damaged my relationship with them and it made shooting the wedding harder. I didn't have that connection so much anymore because I felt like these are people that, that were willing to do whatever it was, get me there.

(44:32):

And that lack of trust like breaks it down because you have to have a good relationship with your photographer and your videographer, because you're trying to allow them to tell your story. And if they've got this layer now of dishonesty and that story, it's going to color things. And I tried my very hardest to do the best job that I could and put my feelings aside. But it's really hard when you're trying to navigate in a world with so many contradictions right now. I still have my other weddings to think about. I still have my family to think about and my own personal health, and that is a lot to have to carry. And, and I feel like the best thing that a client could do is be just honest. And if you, if you have issues with something where you don't feel like you want to have this kind of party, if you are straightforward with your vendors, I know that I myself would work with a client to find an alternative that makes everybody happy, but we don't have to, we don't have to distrust each other. We don't have to be unkind to each other. In fact, I think this is a time, sorry, I'm getting preachy that we should be more kind to each other. And we should be more honest with one another because that's what we do in the wedding industry is we build bonds, we build relationships and we care about people and to take advantage of someone who's built their entire career on that is kind of not cool.

(45:56):

Yeah. That's the thing is people need to remember all the, you know, all the emails and everything that goes back and forth right now and, you know, scheduling or rescheduling or downsizing. Yeah. Ultimately we are going to see each other, whether it's this year or next year. And so it is still going to happen. And so, you know, I've had a couple of those, like I said, the one that the [inaudible], they didn't give us many options and I'm like, yeah, we're still going to be doing your ceremony here. So hopefully, you know, I'm cool, but you know, it's Dan, what about you? What about advice? You know, how to set myself up for success if I'm trying to do a microwave

(46:30):

For sure. Well, I mean, honestly, I agree with everything that I read, it's just said that is, that is a core structure of where we are today. And that is the reality of that one. And then kind of like going back to number one is, you know, for me, the way I look at couples like portrait photography is I'm not there to document each person's personality. I'm not, I'm there to document their personality as a couple. I think that it's important for a couples kind of like step back and evaluate their relationship and kind of see who they are as a couple and what things are actually like, what external forces create their story of who they are as a couple, and then figuring out what ways to implement those aspects of their life into their actual wedding. So that it's a representation of who they are as a couple. And that can be a hike in the mountains that could be, you know, having your photos done in the bar where you guys you know, it just, it could be anything.

(47:30):

It really could be a lot of different things. So I think that if you want to make it really intimate and personal personable and have that connection of like showing that, that bond of the relationship, implementing those aspects into it, even if it's small and it's subtle, or it's even subconscious, those things are what really make it special. And I think really memorable. Great. Well, thank you guys so much for coming on today. I know, you know, these, aren't always like the most fun topic sometimes, you know, with, but, but I do hope that, like we said, you know, just finding that creativity and the joy you met with with your partner and whatever you guys want to do, I think is so important. And just like I said before, focusing on what we can do and not what we can't do and just really trying to make the best of everything I think is really important. Any last thoughts, any last, whatever, we'll start with Satya and go around. Cause I want to give, I read the last word just because Satya any last regards before we go, thank you so much for joining us from, from up in the San Juan islands.

(48:34):

I think you're on mute.

(48:36):

Oh yeah. I, I don't know. I feel like we covered all my thoughts. I'm just, you know, I think this whole situation that we are ha have dealt with this year has just brought everyone back to being flexible and you know, really flexing those, those muscles of, of having to adjust and just try to relax as much as possible and focus on what's important.

(49:09):

Perfect. Dan any last thoughts and, and good luck today on your wedding and thanks again for taking the time this morning. I know it's a, you know, it can be busy before our wedding, so thank you. What are your thoughts? Yeah, no worries. Thank you for having me. This means a lot, and this is a really great group. I honestly like really respect everybody here in this group, immensely. Like you guys have no idea. Everybody is really consummate professional, and I think there's been a lot of really great advice given by the way. So people walking lists like these are people who really care about what they're doing and really know what they're doing. And the level of advice has been fantastic. For the couples don't stress, you know, like that's the biggest thing is like, make sure it's fun, make sure it's something that is meaningful to you.

(49:52):

We've had a lot of sad times. I mean, all the COBIT stuff, we've all been like mourning a loss of something in our lives. Politically everybody's really divided socially a lot of aspects we're really divided right now as a country. And, you know, getting married is a really beautiful thing. And it's, it's, it's kind of, to me, I've seen a lot more emotion. That's actually kind of happened with weddings because if you can't, you can't have the light without the dark, right. So if you have like kind of more darkness going on, it makes the good things like really positive and really happy. And so I've actually seen like kind of more joyous

(50:28):

Weddings happen during this than almost ever before, because people are like having that big high of, of really positive kind of feelings and emotions and all that. And so I think that if you kind of like take it with a direction and aspect and really focus on that, it's a really beautiful thing and it just can create a really awesome experience. So just have fun with it and find the positivity and enjoy it.

(50:59):

Irene, what about you?

(51:01):

Well, those are well said, comments thanks for sharing those. I think if I could add anything else, it would be that for me personally, I found that when I learned to reset my expectations, I'm happier. And so finding a way to come to terms with the fact that, yeah, this probably isn't going to be necessarily the wedding you thought about when you were six or isn't the wedding that you and your mom talked about when you first got engaged. But it can still be amazing and that it can be really beautiful and that it doesn't have to, to have all of those things when you strip away all of the extra stuff. The only thing that you're really left with is what really counts. I tell my clients all the time, you're going to walk away from your wedding with two things.

(51:47):

You're going to walk away with some photos and a partner and take that partner and really focus on how great that relationship is. If you can make it through COVID, you can make it through anything. We've got some really strong relationships coming out of this. And I think that is really worth celebrating. Even if you have to do with just two people in a dog who cares celebrate what you have lived life enjoy the good times, because these are the good old days. Guys. I know we're going to look back and go. We got through all of that. We can handle this.

(52:22):

That's great. And just to end it with my own personal funny, funny anecdote to, you know, turning the, the negative and the positive and it, this is the first time we've recorded. I've ever done the podcast. Since all this went down to talk about. We were, I was a fan of the XFL. There was the new football league that came out two years, you know, they were getting ready to launch it two years was going to launch last February, you know, all this excitement, all my buddies got seats, everything we had front row seats, Centerlink field, you know, all locked in. I went to Washington DC for the very first game cause our team was playing in D C for this thing launched back in February. And five weeks into the season COVID happened, you know, the league cancels, they go bankrupt, everything, you know, woe is me and we're all whatever.

(53:10):

And you know, never lost you know, any you know, we're sad, but you know, never, never got too upset. Last week, Dwayne, Dwayne, the rock Johnson came out, bought the league out of auction and we're there, they're starting again. And you know, I mean, not that obviously there's still, but the point is, is that, you know, this was something that was really crappy, right. You know, two years of my life that was, you know whether that was well spent or not was excited to get ready for this thing. And I'm just saying that the good things can come from it. Right. And this is something that was just really down in the dumps. And so, you know, with your weddings and everything else, I mean, just hold, hold good and positive thoughts, because this was something that, who the hell would have thought that this would happen in 2020. So anyway, that's my thoughts and that's my story. And we got our, we got our XFL Jersey here. So anyway thank you guys again so much today. I really appreciate it. We'll put everyone's websites and tag everybody and everything else, but it does mean a lot. You guys taking the time. And I know we would normally be like super, super, super crazy right now, but it's still this really crazy busy, you know, with Dan, Irene and everyone doing you know, weddings. So thank you guys again.

Episode 10 - Wedding Officiant Roundtable

(00:07):

Well, thank you guys all so much for being here. This is really trying to make this timely, you know, with this wedding planning podcast, we had scheduled, you know, catering, round tables and bartending and all these other things. And then, you know, Governor Inslee came out and, you know, we're really restricted with the, you know, just wedding ceremonies and, and really the focus on that. And so I thought no better, you know, than to get a group of awesome officiants, Ray and Chanelle have both been on to Get to Know Your Wedding Pro® podcast. And Elaine I'm sure we'll get you on here in the future, but I really appreciate you guys all. Cause I think that just the, the amount of weddings you guys have seen, the knowledge you guys have, I think is so important. And I really want to focus this discussion today on the benefits, you know, what can we still do with wedding ceremonies?

(00:54):

How can we make them important? I was telling you guys before we started recording, I've just heard so many people lately. Well, you know, we're going to do the real wedding next year. We're just going to do whatever this year. And, you know, even like this feeling of like regret or like FOMO or whatever that they're not having like the real thing right now. And so I want to focus on the positives that we can get from having, you know, amazing ceremonies and what ideas and things you guys have. So thank you guys all so much for being here. Elaine, why don't you introduce herself and then we'll go around and then we can get going.

(01:28):

Sure. Hi Reid. And thanks a lot for having me here today. I'm Elaine Way and my company is Seattle Wedding Officiants. I've been around for about 11 years and just loving my job born and raised here in Seattle. So pretty intimate with all the different areas you can get married now during phase two of COVID so great to be here. Thanks for inviting me Reid.

(01:53):

Awesome. And Chanelle was just on the Get to Know Your Wedding Pro® like three weeks ago, we had a great discussion. So why didn't you say hi and what are you doing?

(02:02):

Hi, I'm Chanelle Carlin. And I am based in North central Washington, but I travel all over the state and perform marriage ceremonies, primarily elopement and the mini wedding ceremonies. And I really that's really my specialty. I, I love doing that. The intimacy, I do do larger weddings as well, but, but most of my weddings by far are outdoors and elopements and many ceremonies fewer than 30 people by far.

(02:35):

And it truly wouldn't be a wedding officiant round table if we didn't have Ray on, I want to thank you so much for coming out. But I mean, that just, I mean, just been around forever. I know we've worked together. I can't even remember. I think one of the, I think we figured it was like the first wedding I ever did that we, that you were the officiant for, and that was seven years ago. So introduce yourself. I mean, no introduction needed, but what's going on. Hi everyone. I'm Reverend van Winkle.

(03:01):

My company is Reverend Ray van Winkle and associates. I've been in the officiating business since 2003. Previous to that worked as a floral designer and believe it or not had a catering company once back in the 1980s we do all sorts of weddings, religious nonreligious. We do naturally a lot of elopements these days but we're also on the recommended vendor list at most of the major venues in the Puget sound area. Thanks for having me. I think I was one of your also in addition to one of your first weddings, I think one of your first podcasts I was was when I was interviewed by you way back, way back when, when you first started all this

(03:53):

Like three years ago, your stage acting days. And I think San Francisco we talked about. So if anyone okay,

(03:58):

Exactly, exactly very, very helpful for being a lighting officiate and being able to jump right out there and be on stage, so to speak in front of a lot of people and not have that, that learning, that performance learning curve or the nerves or stuff like that.

(04:16):

Awesome. So first off, and if someone could answer this for me, cause I have this genuine question the zoom officiating right now, remote officiating, I see that posted a lot. Is that, is that a thing right now? I see a lot of head shakings. OK. Cause I, I filmed a wedding ceremony two weeks ago and they had a judge on a you know, like on zoom and then we were, we were onsite, but we filmed that. So that's not a thing is that who, who wants to tackle that

(04:48):

I'm here in, in as far as I know in Elaine, you can back me up on this because I know you're really in contact with the government here. To my knowledge zoom weddings are only legal in New York state and Washington era, excuse me, California. And that's because the governors did a declaration or mandate that they were, I don't believe they are illegal here in Washington and just blah, blah, blah, say whatever you want. But when Penn comes to paper, it's, it's not legal, no virtual weddings are authorized in Washington. A lot of people are of course streaming their weddings. That's a different thing though. So no, you can't get married virtually in Washington state who knows what's going to happen.

(05:43):

And this is, are we running into trouble with people maybe trying to do that. And then with paperwork and things, is that going to be an issue down the line? Do I mean

(05:57):

In

(05:59):

You know, is really important because your officiant will tell you, you can't do that now. If they want to go out somewhere and find somebody else who personally, I will not do that. And so if somebody comes to me and says, this is what our plans are, we want to blah, blah, blah. You know, I, I know what's right and what's wrong, what's allowable. And I'm going to say no, if they want to do something like that. So really it's up to the professionals to sort of lead or couples and let them know what you know, where we're at with all these proclamations. But I don't see that becoming an issue. They won't be legally married is the bottom line. If they try to do that.

(06:38):

And we had, I remember back there had been some discussion on some of the Facebook groups a while ago that there could be complications down the line. If let's say you ended up wanting to get divorced or heaven forbid something happened like, well, that wasn't a real wedding or that wasn't a real thing. And you know, it's right. I mean, Chanelle, what do you think about that? Like, it's just a tricky line where you just try to get someone else onsite. You know what I mean? Do you, what, what are your thoughts on that?

(07:06):

Well, so I officiated one of those California weddings during the very limited time frame that the governor authorized it. So it's April 30th to June 30th. And so on May 30th, I officiated the virtual wedding for one of my couples who had intended to be in Washington, but COVID, you know, didn't allow their travel and the date was really important to them to actually get married. So they went ahead and they were able to get their license in California. And the governor's proclamation for that time period was that your officiate could be anywhere. But the paperwork was a challenge because the governor's population didn't actually really clarify how that could look. So when they and it said they could email their marriage certificate to the officiant for signing, which they did do I find it set back the original with my original signature on it.

(08:03):

The County wouldn't accept it. So then they then had to redo the paperwork, send me their original, which had a front and a back, have me sign it. I FedEx that we did this all by FedEx, send it back to them and then the County was happy with it. But because that clarification wasn't there you know, there was a lot of extra steps and, and that's really, I think one of the things, one of the challenges with virtual thing that Nope, not everybody's on the same page. The governor can say whatever he likes, but it still is up to the County auditors and the County clerks to implement everything. And it's just more difficult. Amen. Because that's where I think a lot of the challenges are coming with this new time in our wedding industry. The governor puts this information out, but it needs to trickle down to the various industries in really con create you know, verbiage. And I've been really confused about a lot of things. So that's a perfect example where, you know, sure. It's phase two, but what does that exactly mean, you know, for the wedding industry? Yeah. So that's fascinating though, that you did one of those that's really, that's interesting. Yeah. It was interesting

(09:26):

Problem. The problem with not knowing what's legal and what's not extends not only to the virtual wedding world, but just in general. It seems like with the changes of mandates, the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. And then on top of that, I think we'll all agree. And other challenge we've had lately is the wedding couples who want to try to get around the rules and bend things. And, Oh, well, no, we're not really considering this a reception. It's just a group of people getting together or the private venue who says, Oh, well, we don't need to, you know, we're following the restaurant rules. We don't need to follow the wedding rules brides and grooms who want to have more than the allowable people amount of people outdoors and want you to kinda just, you know, don't

(10:25):

So hard, you know? I mean, I think in the beginning when this all started, I was so nervous and I was, I mean, I was on the phone DeRay like once a week, sometimes twice a week, what does it mean to, can we do this? And we were still communicating. And I was so nervous that I was doing the right thing and that I wasn't going to lose my license or whatever, but, but now, you know, I've done several elopements and Augustus has gotten really busy. And, and the thing is, is about these venues that are having 30 people or less, which is allowed yeah, they're not supposed to have a reception and Ray you're right. They're turning these things into dinner parties, but you know what, I leave after the ceremony. So I'm sorry. You can do whatever you want because I'm not going to get into it with you. I know we're social distancing and wearing masks for the ceremony. And then, you know, I'm going to do my job and then how about it because not our, not our responsibility,

(11:34):

Other venues or vendors conform to what they're supposed to do. Yeah.

(11:38):

I just, I just don't want to get into it with people, although I, yeah. I just don't want to get into it because you're right. They're really trying to, to get one past us. That's for sure. Yeah.

(11:49):

I think two episodes ago we posted and I really would encourage anyone to listen.

(11:54):

I think I called it like, what now? Like what, you know, what this was right when Inslee had come out with everything. And that was my big takeaway. And our big takeaway was really, I think finally now, like August let's, you know, cause in March, I think we were like, okay, whatever. Okay, April, okay. When's it going to get, when's it going to get? And now it's like, I think in, in August now, I think we have had enough time. Now we need to reframe the way we are thinking about this thing and really not focusing on, well, what can't we do? It's what can we do and not try and like yeah,

(12:24):

Skirt the rules,

(12:26):

Or we're not going to whatever. Like I think that I just seen so many things and questions and I still see photographers posted my couple wants me to do this and that. And I'm like, I don't know. I mean, I'm not, I just had one of our brides said, Hey, you know, asking about mass and stuff. I said, I can't tell you what to do. I mean, we're going to be protected, obviously this the mandates, but like, I can't, what am I going to do? Walk up to you and put it on your face during, you know, I mean, I just can't right. I can't dictate that kind of behavior. So it's tough. But have you guys so with the rise of, of kind of like you were saying, all this uncertainty and you know, what's going on and people worried about doing the right things, I've seen a lot of increase of people looking for pro efficient. Have you guys seen that just as people wanting to make sure, like, this is all kosher Ray, I saw, you know.

(13:18):

Yeah. I think, I think I actually have what's what's happened for me is, is both there are new people coming out looking for my professional services and naturally most of my already booked clients who are rescheduling till next year are still doing it alone this year. But yeah, with you know, I mean, there's still plenty of people getting their friends ordained and all that kind of stuff, but that really doesn't work for an elopement kind of situation where you want to look like yesterday, I was at the Salish at one o'clock in the afternoon. You want your friend to do the wedding? He can't, he or she can't do it cause they can't get off work. Yeah. I mean, there's so many reasons to have a professional officiant. You know, we were talking earlier about the virtual situation you know, having somebody there who knows how to fill out the darn paperwork, you know, that paperwork goes to a Limpia you can get kicked out in a second if it's not correct. And it's just a big nightmare for the couple. So there's so many reasons I believe to have a professional

(14:37):

Chanelle, have you seen an uptick to, I've just seen a lot of just like posts, even our allotment that we that we just booked for like an, the August, you know, they they're looking for one because they don't, they, and even their thing was, they were like, well, we don't, they're like, well, I guess like we could, you know, have someone like a friend or whatever, but they're like, we don't even want, we want just vendor, like pro people. Cause we don't want someone to feel bad. Like, Oh, well we asked someone or put, ask someone to put themselves like it re not that like, you know, it's, I think you can be safe and not be at risk, but like that they really wanted like a pro you know, have you seen a lot of, of looks people can lately for efficiency?

(15:17):

Well, I've seen, certainly seen an increase because I've had a number of folks come to me with their, their plans have all had to change. So they, I think like Ray was saying that they had these other events planned whether they were traveling, you know, to do a Lopez out of state or out of the country and all of that had to change. And so they still want to get married at the time that they were planning to get married to now they're having to find somebody else who can do it. I've had one couple recently who said their professional officiant couldn't do it, but wouldn't do it for them right now. So they needed to find somebody else in order to keep their date. Which I was quite surprised at. And, and I didn't ask who it was. Cause, you know, obviously we do what we need to do for our businesses and for our safety, he was probably me.

(16:10):

But I have had to say no to more than a few couples. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, and, and people have to, and also our time schedules now I have a lot of folks coming to me in the month of August and that spread some of this after September and October, please. I know August is crazy for some that has become really, really busy. But yeah, so I've had a number of folks come to me for different, different reasons. But, but you know, in very short order, I can, I, can you prick, you know, do a wedding for me this week. Can you do one for me tomorrow? And you do one for me on the 29th of August because nobody else can fit me in that day. They already have. Yeah, no, I'm sorry. I interrupted you. I'm so excited to talk about this. Finally. It's like, I've been for ever, but yeah, they, a lot of them already have their licenses and they want to do something. So I think that's why we in particular are very busy right now.

(17:10):

I know. So when we were, before we recorded it, I said, one of the main reasons I wanted to do this today was I've just seen, I've seen a lot of people post and I've talked with a lot of couples lately and the mindset is, you know, we're going to do whatever this year, we're going to do our real wedding next year. Or, Hey, I did one now, but you know, it's not what it was. Do I regret that? Or is that not really a thing? Or do I feel like I missed out or whatever? And obviously, you know, I don't believe that. Right. And I don't think any of you guys do because you know, I think the wedding ceremony is, you know, it's, it's super important and meaningful and, and you know, I,

(17:50):

Without the ceremony is just a party.

(17:52):

Exactly. So I want, I want each of you guys to touch on that and your thoughts on that, because I just, I have seen that a lot and I feel bad for these brides. I know the bride that we talked to the other day, man, I could just see it in her face talking. She's like, well, we're just not going to do the real thing this year. And I'm like, no, but it is like, you need to, I want you to like, get your mind around that, that it is going to be awesome. It is going to be exciting. So let's start with Ray and go around. I mean, what do you guys think about that? You know, hearing that people are feeling that way.

(18:20):

Yeah. You know, that, that was always kind of a pet peeve of mine over the years and, and Chanelle and Elaine, you may you may corroborate this or not, but I used to get the feeling, especially when people tend to leave the efficient decision for the very, very last that I swear I would, I would tell my other vendor friends that, you know, sometimes I think the invite should go out that says you are cordially invited to a party. Oh yeah. We're having a wedding. It's kind of nice and refreshing right now to see an emphasis on the ceremony because basically the ceremony is all anybody's able to do right now. For example, though, read, I've had kind of all, almost the opposite in the experience that you've had in some of my couples and especially the couple I dealt with just yesterday at the sailors, they were supposed to get married two years ago, she got pregnant.

(19:24):

So they decided to postpone till this spring, we all know what happened. So her fiance surprised her with an elopement ceremonies, them, me, the two witnesses where the wedding planner and the photographer. And after she got over the initial shock of, Oh my God, this is really happening now told me that it was the best thing that ever happened to her. There was no, no drama, no trauma. They were able to concentrate on the two of them and what they were doing and getting married and not have to worry about all the other plans and details and the party and, and who do we invite? Who don't we invite, they really focused on what was important to them. And they were perfectly happy with celebrating next year with a big ceremony in a big reception.

(20:32):

Huh? Well, you know, I've had, I have had both on both sides of the spectrum really. So I have a couple who was getting married in October. And they've been planning their wedding ceremony for quite a while. And it's the daughter of a friend of mine from high. That's how they, they came to me and she was initially the one of the people who was, you know, we'll have the, we'll just do something now. And so we can get married and then we'll have the real wedding next year. And so what I said to her is, honey, you're getting married. I said, there is no real wedding. Next year, you can have your party next year. And if you want to do a Val renewal or something like that, that's what it will be. But you will not be getting married again.

(21:13):

You're either getting married now or you wait, you know, that part's up to you. But it took her, I said, and we'll redo your ceremony. So that it's an elopement. It's really just about the two of you. So it feels really special to do right now so that, you know, this is not just going to be a a one shot and then a two shot. This is a, you're really getting married. And it's just all about the two of you. It's an elopement ceremony. And then once she got that and she saw what we were creating, it was a very different, you know, perspective that she had. I think she started to really see, okay, and now we'll have our party next year. And I just did a ceremony for a couple in Shalane. They had had a big wedding planned on the East coast with their families and obviously had to change everything.

(22:06):

So then they decided themselves, they were just going to do an elopement, their witnesses were there two photographers. So they were going to do it up in the, up in the Hills of Moshe land. But then they decided they had rented an Airbnb right on the Lake, literally. So we stood on the dock. I stood on the edge of the dock, thankfully was two levels. And they stood towards the, or the land cause she's in her dress and high heels. And we did a beautiful ceremony afterwards. They told me that no matter what they had originally planned that this was how it was meant to be. And they knew it and they were delighted and it was so special. They were so grateful. And I thought, that's what, this is exactly what it is. And if we have to help you get there, that's okay. We will help you get there. But it's about the marriage. I love that.

(22:58):

I feel like I'm part time, bereavement, counselor, and part time cheerleader all the time. You know, and it's all about expectations and that's the way it's always been with these weddings. You know, some of these brides, you know, since the time they were a little girls, they had their wedding wishes planned in their fantasy wedding planned. And so this has gotta be devastating for a lot of people who I talked to a new client the other day. And she said, you know, we've been planning our wedding for two years and I just thought this must be so frustrating, but you know, her expectations have changed. She's got a great attitude, they're bringing it down a notch and we're going to make something beautiful. And so, you know, there's all different types of scenarios that I'm sure that we've all experienced, but I think the main thing is being able to you know, hold our, our couple's hands and let them know that we're, we're still on board.

(24:07):

We're still cheering you on. And that's a great idea. Let's, let's do that. And they're still getting a great ceremony. You know, the ceremony situation hasn't changed. But many, not many, I mean probably five or six of my large weddings have postponed to next year. So that's a whole nother thing, but I wanted to share my flower. Can you see my flower? Beautiful. Okay. So here's a good example of a large wedding at Canlas that got canceled and the couple opted to do any loment at person's gardens and bride arrived, just looking stunning and the groom looks so handsome. They had their dog, I got them a photographer, they got me a corsage and they were so happy. These streamed it actually to their family all around the country as well. So it's like, it's all right. Now it's all about making a lemonade out of lemons. You know, that's just the way it is. And I think our role as, as the efficient is to you know, get on that train and get it going in a positive direction if we can. And I will honestly admit that we can't always, I mean, there are these some, I've had a couple of situations where they were just so angry that they just gave up and yeah, so that's really unfortunate, but you know, we do the best we can with all of our couples. So yeah, it's, it's been interesting.

(25:43):

Yeah. It's just tough. I mean, I, you know, as a, as a wedding vendor, I just, and we've moved a lot of them to next year and we've done a lot of the ceremonies now and then moved. And I just, if it was me, I, it was a universe telling me to put, to get an officiant photographer, you know, maybe a videographer stream it and then put the rest of the money, do a house or something at this point. I mean, honestly, like, that's, it, it's so hard. I mean, I would still, I would do it and I would just say, this is just a universe telling me not to do it right now. And I, I, you know, and I get it. I absolutely get that. The big thing is important for a lot of people. And I, I absolutely value that. But it's tough and, you know, it's, it's a tough decision to make, but I think, like you said, just, just trying to, to, to really recognize the importance of what we have now, I think, and like I said, I'm a wedding vendor, you know, we want people to spend all the money on everything.

(26:43):

I think, you know, you just can't I want to talk about it and I'm sure you guys have seen all sorts of different creative, you know things I'm sure even this year, you know, as ceremonies and things. Cause I want people to have some takeaways from this podcast at the end of the day, right? Like, Oh, that would be a good idea that I could do for my, you know, people that are getting married right now that still want it to be important. What would you guys, you know, and maybe you have already talked to some of your couples about it. What would you recommend that people think about incorporating or doing things that you've seen work well, Chanelle, maybe we'll start with you any, any good ideas.

(27:21):

Well to make it be special is, you know, when you're having to shrink your shrink, your invitations down from 150 to 30 you know, looking at thinking really about, you know, not who's important to you, but if you could only have a small group of people there who would be the most important and why but one of the things that I did this couple in that I just did their ceremony for on Tuesday, they had a book that she had given him as a gift and when they first started dating and it was really impactful for the two of them and they really wanted us to incorporate a reading from the book. So I actually themed their whole ceremony around that. I seemed there they're opening and they're closing and their vows that just the whole concept was because it was so impactful for the two of them, you know? And, and if they have special music, that's important to them. I really, you know, that can be really helpful. You know, that's one of the things that I actually thought, and it makes it easier to write a ceremony. You know, if you have something that's really important to you let us know what it is and then we can absolutely create an incorporate something so that you can then say, yes, I love this. Or, you know, let's do something different.

(28:44):

What about you? I remember. And I just was thinking about writing the ceremonies. We had a wedding, I think it was two years ago. And you had known it was that Stephanie and you had known her, you guys had worked together or something. And I was, I was, I remember I was like editing it and I literally took the time to like email you. And I was like, wow, like that was such a good, just, it's just funny. But anyway, I made me think about that. What about you, whether some things that you're talking to, people, the thing that I like to emphasize or do what all possible with the elopement situation, often times you don't have family there, or if you do have family, it's only a couple of family members. And typically I typically don't do the dad walking daughter down the aisle who gives this woman cetera. But what I like to do, and I like to do this

(29:42):

Big weddings, as well as the low butts that are really helps, make things more special with the elopement is if we have a little bit of audience participation, rather than having your dad or your mom or somebody there to quote give you away, unquote, we have everyone give you away. Do all of you here today, promise to support person a and person B in their married lives. If so, please respond. We do. And everybody's very enthusiastic.

(30:16):

That's cute. I like that. Yeah.

(30:17):

Yeah. It makes, it makes the guests that you do have, it makes them more participants rather than just observers in the ceremony. That's good.

(30:32):

Gosh. So my answer is really practical. I thought about this and I think to really make it memorable, get a photographer. I mean, sorry, but you know, get a professional photographer and cause a lot of these elopements are, are, are happening in some really beautiful environments. You know, the Washington park Arboretum discovery park, I was at person's gardens. I'm going up to Michael Teoh on Saturday. So if this is it, why not get a photographer to really capture your, your moments? That's cause they're, they're, they're still gonna get all the same things that they always get from me, which is a customized ceremony and you know, my presence as a professional, but for the memory of the event it's something to look back at that confirms that, you know, we really did this. We really made this happen and our best people were there, 30 or less, whatever, whatever. So I think photography is a really important piece of, of recording their memories during a really challenging time,

(31:45):

Especially when you can look back and I'm doing this now I was married 40 years ago next January. And we look back about our, at our photos of the wedding is like, Oh my God, who are those kids?

(32:03):

Yeah.

(32:03):

And letting baby get married,

(32:07):

See, this is what I'm talking about. Wow. Oh, you look the same Ray. I'm sure

(32:13):

Reid. I got it. I got to tell you just for your own edification. When I got married, there was no such thing as videotape I'm exaggerating slightly. There was, but this was before the video was a three quarter inch. You Maddick giant could only use like a newsroom in podcasts,

(32:40):

Such thing as wedding videography back then

(32:43):

Certainly not streaming online. I bet one, we did last week. They were now, you know, this wedding that we don't know if it was real weather and not, but the ceremony that I filmed and they they were there. All their family was in Italy, like in Venice watching the thing and like their apartments. And I was like, this is freaking awesome. Like, you know, I mean, Tony, Tony sucks for a lot of reasons, but we do have the technology now that you can, you know, they were sitting there with a glass of wine on their couch and wherever some mountain towns. But you know, it was funny.

(33:14):

Can I share something that happened on Tuesday? So this beautiful ceremony right on Lake Shalonda, it was so absolutely gorgeous took place in the evening just as the sun had gone down and it was breathtaking, like busy outdoor Lake and this is on the South shore. So it was way far away from the main activity. But people like to book on like Shalanda and they liked their speed book on Lake Chalan and somebody decided they wanted to do a little lap ride around. And so, and this was a really loud, like in the middle of the ceremony, just going through, you know, this really special part that was really meaningful for the two then right before they're going to say their own vows. And he comes by and he's really, really loud. So I'm there just looking at me. And so I just stopped because this was their ceremony.

(34:09):

They are streaming as well, all across the country so that their family can hear. And I know no, but can hear anything. My husband was like across the yard and I asked him later, could you hear me? And he's like, yeah, I stopped comes around. He's so loud that he's out of sight and you can still hear him so loud. They wouldn't even start there until he was gone. Once she finally started, her backing comes around again, how rude are you? You can see there's a wedding happening clearly standing on a dock, three people. And you're just going to spin around on the left crude, but you know what, Chanelle they'll remember it. They have a great memory. I just want to point out again about, you know, what that's, where you're a professional, you know, you knew to stop, you know, you knew to make light of it. You know, whereas somebody who maybe just got ordained the day before we kept talking, you know, it's just one of those things that we do. I know I've done weddings down it to the course and building before, which is right next to the airport and coming over. And I always have my little comment that I make ground control to me and we're professionals.

(35:38):

And we know how to handle that. If it's not that, then it's the you read the Edgewater hotel or you're at the aquarium outdoors and you know how the trains, the freight trains they come and then they go, you know, when you were talking about the speed boat going by, it made me think of an Elaine. I know you've been there a lot yourself too. How many weddings we've done on the skin? Sonia on Lake union in the middle of the ceremony there there's usually some jackass in a boat coming right up yelling. Oh my gosh. Lake union crew on that out there. I mean, they would come down and like do some pretty like obscene things when we got, I mean, I don't even want to go there, but you've all seen it all. I can confirm that it's special by having somebody moving you in the background. Exactly.

(36:50):

We were, we were actually just at salty site. Our yesterday was our anniversary. We went and had dinner and we got married at salty. Thank you. And that, but when we got married there, you know, we were on the dock down below and it was right. We got through our vows and then it was right during the rings and this a little, you hear this, like there's a little tiny mother boat and this, these two guys like fat beer got with their shirts off drinking beer, like cruising around. And one of my buddies was sitting there. He's like really? Did you hire that boat to get video from, you know, from like shooting video from the backside? I was like, no, but I wouldn't have been really smart and I should have, I should have done that. But that does it does lead me to a good point though.

(37:32):

And I think that that's again, looking at like the positives of all this doing in the weldment, you know, just the couple, you know, officiant, you know, like he's a photographer, whatever. I think we are allowed a lot more flexibility of, you know, where we can do things right where, you know, on the dock or like, you know, we didn't want it like Lake wilderness, just, you know, just like a pop up, whatever. Can you guys talk about that? And just some of the benefits of, of maybe being able to like get married somewhere that you, you can never have 200 people somewhere and do a wedding, but here you can find somewhere that's you know, really unique. I know that Kelly Kelly, Holcomb's the plan there. She was on one of the podcasts. One of her couples was thinking about doing it, like in front of a Starbucks where they met or whatever, whether the logistics with all that, how does that work? I don't know if that's even all allowed, but what do you guys think about that? Elaine, you seem really motivated to talk.

(38:21):

Well, I mean, this has just been the bane of my existence, trying to figure out the numbers for a city versus private elopements or weddings. You know, we all know now that the limit

(38:36):

Is 30 people, no receptions. And I've been doing a lot of elopements at city parks. And I was pretty sure that I was correct in my thinking that you could only have five people or less, and that included me, you officiant or whatever. And I just was able to get that confirmed, not from the governor's office but from respond well when they got somebody on the line, but they didn't know. They were like, well, it says here that blah, blah, blah. So I went right to the source. I went to the city of Seattle and I got email confirmation and a voicemail saying you can only have five people. And so what that allows though, are opportunities to be in hundreds of beautiful settings, some with views of Lake Washington, some with use of like union Puget sound. It, it's just incredible.

(39:33):

The off really there's a lot of options to have these small weddings. And so being a native of Seattle and Washington I'm and also having dialed into elopements years ago, they're kind of my first love. And now I'm focusing on elopements exclusively. And so this I'm, I'm in my element. I'm really excited to offer suggestions for locations and you know, just give my expertise on that. But there, there are really a lot of options for people to go somewhere beautiful and get married now, no matter what they like, right? Matter if, if it's a Lake, if it's a river of it's a mountain, if it's the city, if they want a city views, if they want to, I did one on the Oakenoggen river with a couple who wants to who loves the fish. And that was what they did after their ceremony is they went fishing that day. That's great. I love that. It really is whatever they want. You're your limit. Your it's limitless. Really?

(40:43):

I would say that if they're having a professional photographer, some places like, especially if it's national parks land the Lake Diablo overlook is an example of this. You have to get a permit, okay. Even for an elopement, because if you have a professional photographer taking professional photos, they want to know who it is and what the photos are, I guess, but they require you to have a permit. Okay. That makes sense. And not even to get one either. So I haven't come across that at all. In any of the city parks. I don't think that's a requirement, but yeah. Cause I was kinda curious about that. I didn't know. And right.

(41:23):

No, no, no, no, no. I just want to approach this from the opposite view point and make sure that everybody knew that there are a lot of wedding venues out there who are doing very low cost elopement packages. And I know this because I'm hooked up with a lot of these venues that are doing these. So if you didn't want to deal with like all the logistics you could go to one of these places and they've got a beautiful place to get married. They provide the officiant, the photographer, the flowers, et cetera. It's usually like on a weekday type of basis. And that's why they're able to keep the rates really low. So two, two different ways of approaching the same, the same situation. Do you see yourself go to your officiant, say, okay, where do you suggest we get married? Or you could look at the venues that are already out there and see if they have the local and package already for you. So you don't even worry about it. It comes with a planner. Some of the venues are coming up with some beautiful packages. I know you and Ray, Ray, you and I have been working up there doing your elopement package, just again, making lemonade out of lemons. You know, it's an industry that is you know, rising to the occasion.

(42:55):

Yeah. That's I just bell Harbor the, you know, at, down at the waterfront, they had just called me yesterday about doing, to be on like, to do a streaming thing. Cause they were putting together like an email, like a lot of these, like you said, these venues are putting together. You know, and like you said, it's a great thing because then, you know, you know, it's, it's all taken care of. It's beautiful. And like it's all allowed then. And now I'm like, then go do that. You know, I don't even know the pricing on it, like 1500 bucks or like 1100. Like they have different things and then go like, go do a nice dinner or something like, like we went to saltiss last night and it was great. And like we felt safe and they fall down, you know, everything's all kosher.

(43:37):

And like, you know, I just, that would be what I would be doing right now and not trying to like fit this round peg into a square hole and just, you know, finding like, you know, like race ads or like, you know, either, either finding the place that's important to us or finding the place, you know, not that like, how's a good deal, but that's a benefit, right? Find one of these beautiful venues that maybe you couldn't afford. Maybe you could never afford to get married at wherever, but yeah, like you said, they're doing a weekday allotment and you can go on the, you know, Thursday afternoon and do it. I mean, I think that that's a good idea.

(44:10):

Yeah. The one, the one I think of specifically is, cause this is the one I first started doing elopements with is a twin Willow garden out in Snohomish. They're doing a real nice package. It's Monday through Thursday and they pretty much provide everything at a really reasonable rate. Speaking of streaming, the last time I was there doing an elopement his family was all in the Netherlands. Her family was in the Philippines. There was literally the three of us, a DJ, three photographers, three videographers. They had a lot of coverage. And then after the ceremony, they introduced the families to each other by taking the two laptops that were facing the alter and facing them into each other. That's all so cool. And then it was like you said, Reno was going out to a nice a nice dinner afterwards and they're still gonna do a big ceremony with the families coming in from around the world next year, presuming that they can do that.

(45:20):

Yeah. I just think that is it's just, and like you said, I think, I can't remember when you guys earlier had said you know, then this was a lot less stress. Even now we did one over at Chateau, Lil, and she's like, this is great. Like I would have been so stressed today. This was awesome. I got to, we did, we just kind of walked out and did the first look and then we took it a couple of photos and then we got married and now we're done and we can go. I think they were just doing like a family barbecue thing, you know, just at the house, but like again, safe, you know, within the family

(45:52):

Doing, doing it alone, doesn't mean that you're missing out on anything that you would have in a normal quote unquote wedding. We're still doing every aspect of the ceremony. A lot of people I've been talking to have been assuming, Oh, you're just going to show up, sign the documents, wave your hand. No, no, no, no, no, we still do. We still have a prayer or a blessing. We have vows and you can write your own. We have promises, rings, everything that you normally expect in a wedding, just in a shorter, you can literally do everything that you do at a large wedding. It's just a lot fewer people. And it can be just really special.

(46:39):

You guys talk about that? Cause I know that there is like Ray just said, Oh, the efficient just shows up whatever, but you guys all, you know, you craft the ceremony, you know, you work with the couple. I mean, can you talk about all that? But even within the Lowman and just the services and stuff, how that still works and how you will still feel like you're really taking care of who wants to tackle that one first,

(47:03):

I will. I still provide the same 72 page document that I've always provided. Although it's gotten a little larger, you know, I, I provide a document that allows the couple to literally craft their own unique ceremony. I work with them to fine tune that. And if she wants to be walked in by her father who might be one of the witnesses, I worked with them on how to structure that. If they want to have music, I give, I mean, pretty much I'm providing all the same services. It's just not as many people. I mean, the processional might be just the bride and her father, that music might be on Bluetooth, one song, you know, but I'm pretty much doing everything that I've always done with the elopements. That is usually what usually doesn't happen though. And Elaine, I think you'll agree with me here is no rehearsal before hand, no need for rehearsal.

(48:15):

You don't all the bridesmaids, all the groomsmen. How do we walk in? Where do we stand? All that kind of stuff. A lot more natural process. It's kind of nice. Actually, even, even with the big weddings that have a big rehearsal. I always like to tell my couples that once you get up to the alter, you basically don't have to worry about anything, concentrate on each other because you're going to be doing what I tell you to when I tell you to do it because of that, that rehearsal. Again, really isn't for the bride and groom. It's for the dad. It's for the bridesmaids, the grooms, when the flower girl, all that kind of stuff that you typically don't have.

(49:04):

I just, and this isn't even related, but I just, I have to tell this story. We had a wedding on Sunday and the group has been fainted, like mid ceremony. And I know that I'm sure you guys have, I we've never seen that. I was there with the photographer and Adam Tiegs is the DJ. He was on our live streaming podcasts. We did a weeks ago and we had all done like a lot of weddings and we had never seen that, that the guy, luckily cause I was doing it myself. I just had like an extra GoPro in the back just as like a, kind of just a safety camera that have. And luckily it was cause he was like the last one at the end, but you just see him and he's sitting there and he's got this shirt. You can kind of see him like

(49:49):

Yeah. On the color.

(49:51):

And it just like, but like wrestling bump like felt like, I mean, it was, it was, it was awesome. And so I I had emailed the mother of the groom, who was the one that hired us like the next day. And I said, don't worry. Like we got it. And she was like, okay, good. Cause it was, it was like, I mean, it was a good, he was okay. Like everybody was okay and they were, you know, he was kind of a jokester anyway. So I think it worked out. But I just, I had to share that. Cause I just was like, you know, even with, you know, there was like 15 people there and then I'm like, thank God. There wasn't 300 people that would have been like a really bad

(50:28):

I had that happen. You know, it was a bridesmaid and it was the first time I ever got to say in public, is there a doctor in the house? There was

(50:43):

My first painter was the Brian worked at a medical office and her boss, the doctor was there.

(50:51):

Oh, wow,

(50:53):

No, no, no. One of the groomsmen, she worked in a medical office and her boss, the doctor

(51:05):

Before you, before we go today, this has been great. I want to what advice do you have, you know, for couples right now? You know, still planning, getting married right now. Maybe it's already things that you've been telling couples that you, you know, that you guys are working with, but what would you say? You know, I know that people are still so burnt out. People are stressed. People are like you said, they're angry. They're, you know, we're trying to do the best we can. What do you, what would you guys tell people? Ray, we can start with you and go around, but what do you, what do you,

(51:35):

I would, I would say stay flexible, make that any plans you make are going to change because God only knows what's going to happen in the future. What's going to come out of it out of Olympia as far as well. Now this week here's the rules. And next week here is the new rules. So stay flexible, assume things are gonna change. And most importantly, and I'm sure we'll all agree with this, the wedding couple concentrate on each other and what you're doing and your relationship and the reason why you're doing this, the parties good. You want to celebrate because it's fun. It's all your friends and everything. But at the end of the day, you're not throwing a party. You're, you're marrying the person that you love and want to be with for the rest of your life.

(52:33):

One of the things that I do in each of my ceremonies, you know, the talk about their story and I, I give them their wishes. I give them, I give them homework for the rest of their life. And it is just for them to think about every moment as something special, even if it doesn't seem special at the time, because what it does is it adds to the depth and the richness of their story that they'll pass on through the generations of their family. So, you know, paying attention to the color of the leaves in the fall, you know, when they travel over the mountains and they go camping, actually stop take photos of themselves next to the river and take a look, listen, because all of these things matter, you know, when you talk about re you know, focusing on each other, absolutely. And remit having these memories, these little jokes, finding out of the way, spots for themselves, because what it does is it takes that off top of all the big and really just focuses on what's most important.

(53:29):

And library said, I'm getting married and, and building their life together. That's what's most important, but it's all those little moments that create the life. Yeah. The big ones to coven will be remembered, but, but what happens during coven, you know, cooking everyday together, gardening on the roof because that's where they've created their garden is downtown Seattle on the roof of their building. Those are the things that you really want. That's super sweet. I love that. I agree with both of you. I think just trying to reel it in and remember how this all started. Like, why did you even plan a wedding? Whoa, what do you know? Because we love each other and you know, it's all about us really encouraging people to have hope explaining that they have lots of options and being that cheerleader that I was talking about earlier, just really, you know, I've, I've, I've literally said to couples who have contacted me, how, how shared with them, how proud I am of them for a person, you know, and you know, that is so great that you're persevering and you're doing this and I really applaud you.

(54:44):

So being that cheerleader and helping guide them through whatever choices they have decided to make, but always like you two said, reminding them that this was first and foremost about your love for each other. That's what really matters.

(55:00):

Yeah. I firmly agree with all that. I think fi you know, having a thoughtfully put together ceremony, you know, with them, you know, maybe, you know, a couple of friends, whatever in the beautiful location really focusing on that as opposed to trying to fake something and have everybody in mass and it tables and they can't stand and it's, well, we can do our first dance, but no one else can dance and we can't have a DJ now we can't do this. And I just think focusing on, on, like you said, you guys said like the moments and, and them, I just think in the, in 50 years, you're going to remember that way more. And that's going to mean a lot more than like, well, we got to have a reception, but it wasn't really, you know, it didn't really whatever. So yeah.

(55:49):

We didn't get to eat anything. And, you know, I mean, I never understood this comment from my couples when I would have my, you know, last consultation with them before the event ask them how things are going. And I never understood it when they said we can't wait till it's over. And you guys all heard that. I'm like, okay, well let's okay, but that's kind of can happen at big weddings. So now we're something I

(56:24):

Think maybe that might be a little more memorable, memorable for people. You guys have all been so great. I really appreciate it. Like I said, again, all of you taking the time, I know you guys are crazy busy running around doing all these little mints. Does anyone else, any last thoughts? Anything I didn't ask about anything? We can go, yeah, I'll put everybody's information and all that, but anything else? Any other last words just before we go, before I cut off some really amazing tidbit, can I just say that I really appreciate you read this is, this is fantastic. I think our couples out there will appreciate the opportunity to, to hear from the fishy. And since you know that there is that there is hope. And I think this helps.

(57:09):

I appreciate you. Thank you. Well, thanks. It was nice to Chanelle and Reid. Thank you. I'll be on the phone to you next week. I'm sure. Back and forth. Yeah. I try to, I try to give good information, whatever I can. And I want everybody to know out there in the internet world that we are taping this in the morning, but I've not been drinking a beer beer. Although, you know, the other day I was at mischief distillery in Fremont doing a noontime wedding and I'm a big fan of rye whiskey. And I was so tempted to try some of the rye, but I had another, I had to go to later in the day.

(58:08):

Yep. Yep. I agree. Well, thank you guys again. Hey, if you're listening, if you have questions in the future, you can go to www.bestmadevideos.com/survey, And I have all the different vendor types and everything categorize. If you have questions, you know, we can put together round tables is kind of gauging people's interest in what's going on, but I think COVID has really given us enough to kind of you know, work through as we go. So, but thank you guys again. I wish everyone, you had the best of luck and safety and you know, good health and everything going forward. So thank you guys.

Episode 9 - Bartending Roundtable

(00:07):

Thank you guys all so much for joining today, just full disclosure. We were going to record this and then Inslee's restrictions came out and kind of the whole state of wedding receptions is, is a little bit in limbo right now, but I still wanted to record this since we have all you guys, you know, all these talented minds. And once you know, this information is a little more applicable, you know, we'll post it and keep the content pretty evergreen. But I wanted to get one. We have an episode talking about safety with catering, food protocols and things going on with weddings now. And I wanted to do one Jan of course, when I posted my call for looking for caterers, and she said, don't forget about the bar service. And I say, Jan, I got you. It was the next one on my list.

(00:48):

So we got it going. Jan, why don't you introduce yourself? And then we'll go around to everyone. Just tell us who you are and what you do. Hi everybody. I'm Jan Fernandez. I am the founding partner and compliance officer for Party on the Rocks event staffing and mobile bar service. And Rion, what about you? My name's Rion McConnehey, I'm the owner over at My Perfect Bartender and same thing, just mobile bar services, consultations, whatever you need. And Nigel was just a guest on the Get to Know Your Wedding Pro® podcast. We talked to all about his journey and planning the wedding and going through kind of everything, both on the vendor side. And then also on the, you know, getting married side and dealing with kind of all this craziness. So Nigel, why don't you tell us who you are?

(01:32):

Yes. My name is Nigel Lindsey. I'm the owner of Revolution by the Barrel craft cocktail catering company, as well as soon to be husband and the near future when COVID allows me to. But yeah.

(01:44):

Perfect. Well, thank you guys all so much. I know it's, it's a, it's a really stressful time, you know, lots of changes. You know, we have tweets coming out now from our governor are changing things. So thank you guys all so much. I just kind of a check in how's everyone doing? I know that we were talking a little bit before we recorded, but kind of a lot of you guys are saying either you're holding off on bookings now until things kind of clear up, is that the case? Jan, why don't we just start with you and just kind of a wellness check-in yeah, so my partner, Claire and I had a pretty long conversation today because it just, it just keeps going back and forth. What do we do? We we've rescheduled bridge three and four times now. And everybody's nerves are just frayed and we've just decided that we are not going to book anybody between now and February 1st, we had three people reach out to us for September weddings and we just, we don't see it happening. Honestly, we don't see anything happening before the beginning of the year. So that's where we are. We're booking after September, February 1st and Rion. So I think, right. So one more time. I'm sorry, Rion. A similar boat. Yeah, a similar boat yet. Couldn't have said it better herself. The, the nerves are frayed times are tough and you're, you're double rescheduling and then triple rescheduling. So where she's for February, I'm actually

(03:00):

Not even going until March, but I'm telling you, honestly, you read, I am super blessed. A lot of companies didn't make it. A lot of things were shutting down and my bills are paid. My kids are healthy. So I mean, let's, let's just keep on pushing through us together. And that's yeah. And natural, like I said, you've been kind of burning the candle on both ends, we're planning and everything else has everything going for you guys,

(03:23):

You know when it comes to the planning portion, I just feel mostly bad for my fiance, even though I get the brunt of it. But for me, as far as the company we've been doing the best, we can keeping consistent communication with all our soon to be husband, wife, or wife and wife, you know, and we're, we're just doing what we can on a day to day basis. And that's, that's all we can do. And I'm just, yeah, just trying to survive, continue to keep moving. Can't complain. We, I mean, we've been trying to figure out other avenues in which to bring income in which have been pretty successful, but you know, right now when it comes to doing a wedding, we still have some bookings left in this year. But at this point I'm just keeping committed you know, consistent conversation with them, just letting them know that if things need to change, we can make that change and I'm happy to work with them around that.

(04:12):

Yeah. What's been right. Let's start with you. What's been, you know, besides just the constant, just questions about booking and everything, but as it relates to, you know, you and bar service and things, what's been the biggest challenge right now, just to kind of get your head around as it relates to you. Cause I know it's different for each vendor type. Yeah, absolutely. So I'd say one of the biggest ones for me is the, the optimism that some of my clients have that maybe they shouldn't. I have a lot of clients that are just like, Hey, we're scrapping everything. We'll call you again in a year. And I'm like, that makes sense. And then I have some clients that are really adamant about pushing forward and I appreciate their positive attitude, but they're like, no, we'll be in this phase by this date.

(04:51):

So we can have this guest count. Then I have to have that talk with them like, okay, are you ready to make those phone calls to tell the people they can't come if this doesn't come? And they're like, no, it's not going to be like that. And so, so my company is a very roll with the punches type situation. That's just kind of who I am as a person. And some people, some of my clients are in some of my clients aren't and then they get frustrated with me or the venue for certain procedures that we have in place, because it's not what they agree with personally. And it's like, you know what, guys, we all just gotta roll with the punches and just do what we can and back each other up and understand that this is all super stressful. And in the end we'll all get married. It's all gonna be fine. We're all gonna die. It's all. If you don't work it's it's it's it's we just gotta keep pushing forward. Now you're worried about you. How are you w trying to wrap your head around things? What, you know, what's, what's been a hurdle for you guys,

(05:45):

You know? I don't think I'm trying to wrap my head around any of it really. I'm just trying to take it like one day at a time. I figure like it's just consistent learning, right? So I'm consistently looking into figuring out where we're going to be. When the communication, as far as with the couples I'm very transparent person. I just let them know how I feel when, and not a rude way of just where things are going. And you know, if they want to continue, then we'll continue. But it's just like, Hey guys, I'm just here as your resource, I'm going to be your bartender for you, no matter what. And I'm going to try to work with you as much as possible, but with everything going on, it's not really trying to wrap my head around this point, just because I'll go and saying, right, just trying to figure out what rules in place here, what rules in place there. I just take everything one day at a time. And if I get updated information, I have my call list of who else has left on this year. And then I'll just say, Hey, this is where we're at. I'm not trying to stress you out. How do you want to continue to move or just reach out to me when you're ready to move forward in a certain type of way, just know I'm the resource there for you.

(06:48):

Yeah. That's kinda like I, after all this stuff on Thursday, I emailed everybody and I was just like, I don't even know if you want to hear from me right now or not. Right. I don't know if you need a week to get your mind together. You know, I just, I feel so bad cause you're trying to walk that tight rope between, you know, being there, but also not, you know what I mean? It's just, it's tough. Cause I'm sure that they're like, Hey, give me some time to, you know, wrap my head around Jan, I know you're, you know, miss logistics and insurance and everything else. And this has to be a nightmare just for trying to figure out the right way to do things. How have you guys been, you know, working through all this?

(07:20):

So our challenges, they're moving from venues to back yards and they want us to continue because it's in a backyard. And so, you know, it's like, what, what's your position? Well, our position is I'm not willing to lose a half a million dollar business because you want to have a party in your backyard. I'm also not willing to let my employees or your guests potentially get sick. Cause somebody is walking around asymptomatic. Right? So I'm going to do the right thing. I'm going to follow the rules that the governor has set forth. I, I watch the, I don't, I don't watch the Facebook. I don't watch, I don't watch the news. I listened to. I listened to the chief medical officers of the insurance companies and what their recommendations are. I listened to, you know, the doctors at universities that are studying these things that are looking at vaccines and I'm afraid that they are concurring with follow these guidelines, stay away from people, you know, absence is the best way to not catch something. So we're just following the mandates and we're following the laws and we're going to keep our liquor license. We're going to keep our business license. And hopefully we're going to keep all of our employees safe

(08:41):

Even today on on one of the Facebook groups and someone was supposed to, and you're like, Oh, like just devil's advocate. You know, do you think we could, if we wanted to do this and then maybe we could do it this way, the did it. And like, I think everyone's just finally kinda so fed up and just like, Hey, we're done with all this. Like we're done with the, can I, maybe [inaudible],

(09:01):

There's 30 include your vendors. Does it? No,

(09:07):

It's definitely yeah. Over it. And, and when, and one of the big things, you know, for me, they, I wanted to get all you guys on just in terms of safety and, and guests kind of control, you know, I know that one of the biggest things we always talk about with weddings is having, you know, professional bartenders, you know, managing, you know, liquor consumption guests, knowing how to cut people off in a respectful way, you know, all the different things that you guys all, you know, pride yourselves about. And I remember the F it was the first big, big wedding we had in June, like right after they opened all this up. And I mean, they were out of control. I mean, out of control, out of control liquor, you know, from the bottle, all this, you know, Sharon cigars, light each other cigars. And I just thought like, man, you know, like that would be such a, not that all of this is easy, but an easy way to begin these conversations would be to limit that liquor consumption of everybody. Have you guys thought about that just, and how, when you guys get back to weddings, your role's going to be with that, Janice. You're not in your head.

(10:11):

Yeah. So I actually had this happen to me on Friday night, we did a, we did a, we did a really nice wedding, a young couple military. So, you know, they were going to have a good time. Grandpa came up from Tennessee, he brought his motor home. So he was, you know, self contained the whole way up. He and his wife had discussed how they were, you know, wearing their masks. They were going to be in compliance. They brought face shields. They were going to do everything because they were in the high risk category. Right. And he came up to my bar right after the wedding ceremony, God has glass of wine. How does mask on 20 minutes later, it came back, no master. I was like, Hey, sir, you know, got a mask up. And he's like, I knew this was going to happen.

(10:51):

And I, and I looked, I was like, he's going to attack me. And he said, no, my wife and I talked about it. We were going to do this. And he said one glass of wine and it's out the door. And I said, yes, yes it is. And that's exactly what happens with alcohol. And that's why the governor has shut down having alcohol being served in restaurants now. So there's no more service in restaurants after the 30th. Right. Curbside service only. That's why they're not allowing food after weddings is because when alcohol gets involved, people, just their inhibitions go away.

(11:25):

Rion, what are your thoughts on that? She's absolutely right. And as the night,

(11:29):

You know, you get to, you get on site for the wedding and you're like, okay, most of the people are messed up. A couple people are hugging, but you know, water and a one, two glasses of wine. And you're like, okay, master down, master down. There's no masks out there. And so that's pretty common in COVID has highlighted something that I, as a bartender have known for a long, long time. And whether it be intentional or they just genuinely didn't really

(11:54):

Get it. People don't like to listen. And the, in the mask is all about listening and they, and they don't like that. And especially at weddings where you know, you have this battle of like, I know we're all having a great time, but we just need to be safe. And that's just from the alcohol perspective. Now you have the Cobra perspective, which is a double the hall of fame. And that I feel bad for other vendors because even though I know that I'm safely serving alcohol, I am the one giving them the alcohol. So sometimes it can just make things a little more difficult. It's a, it's a trip up there right now, but Jen was absolutely right. Yeah. In the beginning mask up, mask up a couple hours in no masks, Nigel jewelry about you, have you worried about, you know, having to play that, you know, obviously you guys don't want to play like the heavy, but you are email it where you are the Abe responsible, you know, vendor, you, you are put in that position kind of whether you want to be or not.

(12:48):

Yeah, no. I mean, we're completely that position. Jan's right. I actually recently did a wedding. I think it was two weeks ago now. And surprisingly though everybody wear their mask for the most part. So I did notice a couple of times that people would slip down the mask, but that's obviously to enjoy the beverage, but they were really spaced out. It was, but I mean, this wedding was no more than 30 people. And I was really, I was actually really happy. It made me like super happy that I didn't have to be the guy that I was when I first started bartending at a dive bar where it's just like, I'm not rude, but it's just like, Hey, you have to do it. Like you have to walk people like they're babies. Right. And because that's also our job. We, we deal with drug toddlers pretty much. That's what they are. Right. So at a certain point, some people become that. But at this wedding, everybody was, they were listening. They're complying. It was amazing. Cause me and the venue manager were just like, this is amazing. Like we didn't expect it. Even though we knew that this is what needed to happen. But I think that was just one of those one off chances. Right. I don't think that's going to be consistent across the board. So, you know yeah. Jan said it, correct. There's nothing.

(14:09):

I think to the, to the guy's point, there's a couple of things that will definitely help. One are ambassadors. So like your, your day of coordinator, her assistant, the facilities, guys walking around gently reminding people, right. Your caterers gently reminding and limiting the amount of time. Right. Cause we all know it's a marathon, not a sprint. Right. That's what we tell everybody, their third drinking during the cocktail hour guys, marathon, it's not a sprint. Right. But really limiting the amount of time of socializing because you're not supposed to be getting up out of their tables. Right. Unless they're going to the bar or to the bathroom there, you there's, there's no

(14:52):

Dancing anymore. There's none of that kind of stuff. So what do you do for two hours? Right. So if they're gonna continue to have something like this, they're going to need to figure out more games to do or something that's going to keep people in their seats.

(15:10):

Yeah. That was it's it's we, I remember did their however many weeks ago now it feels like forever. Our DJ was talking about kind of all this potential ideas and all this stuff. And now, you know, it's just like, it doesn't even matter now. Right. But, you know, cause they changed the stuff, but it is it's so hardware, I just, and that's finally where we got to we did our episode yesterday that was posted today and just, we, I think we all finally, and it took me a long time to got to the point where it's like weird. It's not going to be a normal wedding and all of this year. Right. I got all at all at all at all, all, and I know that I was, you know, super guilty and I always tell Dorothy, you know, I can admit when I'm wrong. And you know, when I was talking to my Memorial day couples and saying like, don't even worry about it. Like we're going to be swell. And then it's like, you know, we're in a, you know, it's August, right. I mean it's August soon and it's still not, you know? So I think we all collectively have to kind of, and I know that we all, but I'm saying like we all brides and grooms and everybody else, we all need to kinda get on that same page.

(16:09):

Yeah. And if you think about, you know, so we know that the spike is occurring in ages between 20 and 35. Right. So who are those people getting married between 20 and 35 year olds. So that's why the wedding industry is sort of being affected by it because those are the people that are having the weddings. And you know, that's why they've shut the bars down because those are the majority of the people are, or the younger, the younger people.

(16:37):

Yeah. I wanted to ask you about that Jan, about cause I know when they updated the regulations on Thursday and I don't know that, you know, way more of the specifics about it, but when they were, you know, I know that they like limited some of the food stuff or like the liquor. And then people were like, well, how come the roads can be open? But the bar D cause you're saying right. It's because of the activities and the ages and stuff. Can you just elaborate on for people not wondering like why they said whatever, the new regulations of why the thought process.

(17:05):

Yeah. So as of July 30th, restaurants are no longer allowed to serve alcohol inside. And that's because I know it's, it's to it's in essence to stop people from just sitting around and drinking because we all know what happens when you sit around and drink your inhibitions, go down, you forget what you're doing and everything else that goes along with it. And the majority of people that are out drinking right now are people between the ages of 21 and 35. They don't have children. Right. they're college kids, they're home for the summer. They're bored to death. They want something to do. They're creatures of habit. I have, I have one of my employees on my insurance side. He told me he went out to a bar in Fremont on Saturday night. This was a couple of weeks ago. And he said he walked in and it was, these places are, I've seen it. Yep. And those are the ones that are coming down with Cogan.

(18:06):

Now it has up in your experience if we haven't been out, I mean, we haven't gotten anywhere. So I don't know. Have you guys been seeing anything?

(18:12):

I haven't. I haven't been out, so yeah, I've been doing, since we bought this house, I've been just doing maintenance here. I mean, the closest I get to go on out is low. So I say hi to the, the same person I see all the time and they just make fun of me because I just keep coming back in there for more new things. Right. But you know, when we're like picking up orders, it's not too busy, at least out here in Snohomish County. It's from what I'm seeing in Everett, it's, it's pretty light. I haven't seen too many people out, but I don't doubt it. I mean, I'm 28. I know. I know if I did not have kids, I, I would want to be out. Right. Like if I didn't have everything that I have right now and or if I was me four or five years ago, I've been like, what's Colby, you know, so, and, and that's just me, you know, being, being younger, that would have been me being younger, not considering the effects and what that does.

(19:04):

But yeah, I could definitely understand all that. I did hear though that a lot of the bigger spikes were also coming from a lot of daycares, at least in this area, at least in Snohomish County. So we're, I think it's also coming in that that a lot of younger parents are also possibly going out trying to get that trip out and then still going back to work that have to go to work and then it's, then that's where the spike happens. Right. And then it's affecting everybody too. So it's, it's just all across the board and it's making it so difficult right now. Yeah.

(19:38):

We, I mean, when we get, and I know these are hypotheticals, but you guys and just thoughts and stuff to me, when we get back to weddings, are we are walkup bars, not going to be a thing for a while. Is that going to be, you know, are we going to be doing a lot more tableside service for safety stuff? I mean, have you guys been thinking about that and how it's going to affect, you know, kind of the jobs that you guys do or is that still just like mumbo jumbo down the line talk jam?

(20:02):

Well, I mean, I didn't see a problem with, with the walkup bars, especially with so the venues that we've been out for the last three or four weeks, they've all had the sneeze guards in front and, you know, I'll, I'll play jokes with people. Like I'll take a can of beer and I'll crack it and I'll make it spit and I'll do something like, this is what I have a sneeze guard. So you don't end up with beer in your face. Right. And ha ha ha. It's funny. So I don't see that and the problem with tables, I know the problem with tableside services, it takes more people. So then your staff count Prozac, right? And currently you can only have one server per table, so you can have the same server at multiple tables,

(20:48):

But you can't have multiple servers at the same table. Now, I don't know if that's going to change or not, but that just increases the, the labor cost. Gotcha. Rion, how are you thinking about that? And just kind of, you know, get, when you get back into things, I mean, how, how is your, how is your role gonna look? So it's so interesting because I pride myself on being like a good high volume bartender, but, and there's certain things you streamlined. So like a large water dispenser. That's out of the question now I'm putting out tubs of like non alcoholic beverages. So people can just reach in out of the question now. So it's like Jim said, so like the table side service, whether or not it affects it, that slows down the execution man of execution. I'm very much a yes man, but also like, can we execute this properly?

(21:35):

And and, and it just changes the whole dynamics, also sanitizing changing gloves, masking, you know, those little, just take a few seconds, but a few seconds or Tinder is a lifetime. And I think Nigel will agree with me on that. I have one also no reason glasses. So what do you do to take a sleeve with you? Yep. Yeah, yeah. And you go to sleep. Do I walk around with, do I drag the keg behind me? I mean, you know, how does, how does all that execute real quick? I just want to tell you guys a funny story. I think you'll laugh. We're talking about the restaurants and people like I'm going to pass capacity. So during the week, you know, I run my perfect bartend on the weekends. And during the weekdays, I worked for a restaurant chain and I worked for multiple stores helping out.

(22:16):

I just travel wherever they need me. And right now I'm working primarily in two locations. One is kind of my ghetto location and one's kind of my nice location and my ghetto location. Everybody's listening. Everybody's masking up. They're listening to our rules about the bar they're being great. I love it. My super nice location. They're like cussing out the 18 year old hostesses. They're lying about the size of their parties. They're trying to sneak onto the patio. If they're a group of 10, we'll split them up and then they'll all just go to the table. And we're like, guys, we're really, we want you here. We want to accommodate, but you need to listen. And they're just like, no, we're good. And then we, and that it's an issue, but it's from my ghetto stores. Right. And my nice store are not, well, you just got to switch the stores now. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. How is age? You guys are talking about, you know, the gloves in the, in the, you know, the gloves and mass and all of a sudden being like Nigel, I know you're the big, you know, custom cocktails and all that kind of stuff. I mean, is that, how do you boot both of those things together, right? How, how, how has the safety work for that? I know it's stuff.

(23:22):

There's no other way to describe it other than tough. I mean, yeah. And then also like what we were talking about earlier when it comes to the timing, you know, when we started trying to figure out other ways to earn money, when we started doing virtual, cocktailing, you know, you're breaking down and teaching people how to make drinks. I enjoyed it for those that will listen, but it was so boring because I was moving so slow. Right. And so now I have to

(23:46):

Do the same. It seems like as we continue to move forward and we have to break things down, everything's taking a little bit of time here and don't get me wrong. I don't think it will make the drink imperfect. It's just, the presentation is also about speed, right? It's also about how you're putting all that out. So it's no, it's just going to be difficult. We're just gonna have to learn with it. I mean, on the positive during this time, when we're not doing weddings, all of this is going to be a learning experience that I have a garage and I have a bar in that garage. So I'm going to start learning and you, my fiance are going to start having fun. So it's you know, it's just going to be tough and we're just going to have to learn and just keep reading up every day and try to figure out what we can do as we continue to move forward. And as we continue to survive because you know, you have a good customer base. It's just like, we will just try to be better when time allows us to that's all we can do at this point. Yeah. That's an interesting, right. When you were talking about the people lying about the party sizes and stuff like that, I mean, but that totally is like, you know, they send all these rules in place and it's like, well, how can we ask it?

(24:52):

Yeah, I know we can count. Like I can see there's seven people there. Like I was talking to my LCB officer about it and he's like, I'm talking to my licensees. And they're like, what if there's six people at a table, four of them happened to be kids under the age of 10. Do you send one to the car?

(25:13):

What do you do? Do you say

(25:15):

Right? What do you do? And he, and he said, look, I'm not going to care about that. And how do you know that two people of the same gender aren't married? You don't know, you probably know if there's six, if there's five people sitting around. Right. And they're all people under the age of 30, they're probably not in the same household. Co-Mingle they could be, they could be roommates. Right. So there's been so much, it's just so ambiguous. There's just no way to know exactly what to do. You just gotta do your best.

(25:50):

I'm waiting for the roommate argument because I'm like, Oh, you're

(25:54):

Roommates.

(25:55):

So is that I'm waiting for the, for the roommate. Well, you just haven't met the, you know, the, the frat, the frat party. They come in [inaudible] there's actually 20 of us here. Yeah. Yeah. Let's do a funny, I mean, what is it, what do you wish more people were asking you guys right now? What do you wish more people were asking? You know, thinking about, I know that each vendor is, is, you know, thinking a million different things in their head all the time about, you know, everything. What, what do you wish more people knew about what you guys are doing? They're thinking they're planning Rion. Oh man. I'm I that's, that's a really good question. I just wished that some people were okay with keeping communication a little bit higher. One thing. And tell me if you guys agree with this, people ask me all the time, Oh, are the

(26:44):

Couple super different or some easy, some doable it's actually, no, most of my couples are amazing and easy. It's the venues that are all super duper different and I'll go to some venues and they're super strict. I'm like, okay, cool. We'll play by this rule that, you know, and I can roll with any punches and then I'll go to another venue and they don't care about anything. Like, Oh, I kinda wish that we would have communicated. So like, for example, I don't know if you've had issues with us, but like catering, a lot of the caterers now are like making you stand six feet back with a mask in the back. You want like, they'll dish up your plate and then come in, hand it to you. And I'm like, cool. I feel like that's safe. And then sometimes they'll just do the normal buffet line, which we're not supposed to do. And if they do have a fail and it's like, cool, I guess I'm not eating today. Or, you know, until I get home. So I don't know. I guess it was, we just wish we were all on the same page. I guess we just wish we were on the same page. Okay. Jeremy, what about you?

(27:36):

Well, the problem is so just like any municipality any government agency, you have your overarching right. Mandates that come down from the state, the federal, the state, and then you have your, your, your counties, right. And everybody's got their own thing. So Snohomish has this King has, this peer says, this Thurston has this. And so you have to go by, which is the strictest for whatever venue or whatever County you're in. And that part is challenging. I know just before the the Tuesday mandate, whatever date that was there was the June 26 mandate that came in place from the health department, right. That six feet outdoors mask indoors. And we had a wedding venue that didn't know about that mandate. And I neg negligently, didn't print it out and take it with me. Couldn't upload it on my phone. Cause it was in the middle of nowhere. Cause everybody likes to get married in the middle of nowhere.

(28:50):

And I had the mother of the groom refuse to make her guest though. They had custom masks made, refuse them to wear masks while they were at the bar. And I said, well, there's, there's a mandate out. No, it doesn't go into effect until Tuesday. And I said, no, there's the state mandate. And then there's the health department mandate. So this went back and forth and the mother of the groom said, then you can just leave. And I said, okay, I will. I had to. And I wasn't even, Mark was one of my bartenders that was working. I was just there as the compliance officer tobacco, her up. Right. So we, we walked out. Yeah, you gotta do it. And the, and I don't, I'm not proud about it, right. It was a tough decision who wants to be the guy that walks out with the bar and the venue owner came out. And he said, you know, you know, that was really unprofessional. And I said, you want to give me a bad review?

(29:52):

I would, I didn't want to make my guests follow a state mandate. I wanted to put my guests in jeopardy and the bartender was not willing to break the law. I'll take that bad review. And he said, if I go back in, they're willing to wear their masks. Would you go back and bartend? And I said, I don't know if my bartender would go back, but I'll go back. And he came back down, they were willing to wear their masks. He said that there's probably gonna be a few people that won't come up to the bar. And I said, that's fine. I don't mind. I'll give it to anybody. Who's gonna, you know, they just take the liability. Once I hand him the drink that's on them. And the night went fine. Their guests were lovely. I didn't see a few people that was fine. And everybody had a good time. The party actually shut down about 45 minutes early because there wasn't anything to do. But it was a tough call. I mean, I don't like being the bad guy, but it's a job I've had to call the police before. So

(31:04):

Nigel, do you find that too, just managing different, you know, the one thing, same, one thing or the same. I know I had just emailed my bride the eight day they canceled, you know, in an Inslee and Cheetos. You'll where did you see that? You know, there's always every day people are passing around a hundred different screenshots of a hundred different, well, this is what this site says. Do you find too that it's just hard to even know like what the hell is going on and what, what rules you're even supposed to enforce. Yeah. So, I mean, not all the rules. I mean, sir, certain rules that we've, we've known as bartenders, you know, that, that rule is really straightforward. I mean, things that, you know, I have to comply with my insurance and everything like that globally understand all those rules. Right. But with, with COVID one thing that I've been very adamant about in is just not getting my information from social media that I think that has been the biggest, that's been the most helpful thing for me.

(31:58):

Right. And then I, I kind of just wait closer towards the end of the day. So even though we get a lot of this information at three, I'm more of like, okay, it's seven o'clock let me take a look at everything. That's going on. Fact check a couple of re, like go through multiple resources before I start sending out information, because I don't want to do a one too late at like nine o'clock and then hit up, you know, my clients and just be like, Oh, Hey, at nine Oh one, this is what I know. Because at that point it's already too late. Some people were sleeping. Right. but at the same time, it's not too difficult in the approach that I have just because I, I like to section out and just wait a little bit. And it just happens to be my daughter's bedtime too.

(32:40):

So it works out. But like, you know, it's not too difficult, but it is difficult, right. Like when I was starting with this back, when the first release of mandates and having that conversation and I wasn't, you know, following the same rules, this is all stuff that's learned over time. I was getting my resources based off of social media. Right. And I was just like going to different Facebook groups and be like, okay, well I heard this person say this. And then I'm just trying to wrap my mind around all this. And then also have that update my brides and grooms, just letting them know like, Oh, okay, Hey, this is what's happening. Oh, wait, actually, this is the truth. And that's just not ideal for anybody. Right. It just makes me look like I'm scrambled brain to not know what's really going on. So I'm at the point we're at right now. It's not too crazy difficult. Is it difficult? Yes. But yeah, I just, I just try to take a step away from social media where I get a lot of my resources. And I think that's just been, what's been the most helpful thing.

(33:39):

So is this hard, you guys are just in such a different, you know, you guys, the caterers, I mean, you know, we're just kind of there, right? I mean, at least I am, you know, we don't obviously, you know, we want to follow whatever and then we don't want to be in like an unsafe situation, but you know, I'm not me. You guys have just so much more liability and everything. Right. And the caterers and the venues. And like, I just feel, I don't know how I would be able to operate if I was had that much. It just feels like there's a lot on your guys' shoulders that, you know, it's not equitable for all the different, you know, like I think, you know, there's a lot less whenever whatever on the shoulders of like a forest right now, this is like dropping out flowers versus like you guys that have to deal with like interacting with the guests the whole time and everybody the whole time and all the liability and everything. Do you feel that, do you feel like it's a little more on your guys' shoulders?

(34:34):

I think it's, it's stressful because you've, you've got your liquor laws, right? You've got the mandates and then you're the bartender and everybody expects the bartender to be the life of the party. So how do you make everything like fun and compliant and safe, then not scary. We already,

(34:59):

You had before this whole thing, a lot of liability,

(35:02):

Not issues, but a lot of that stuff on our shoulders, just being bartenders and the distributor of alcohol. And then like Dan said, you add in these things like COVID. And so you got the mandates and the new things and following venues rules while trying to keep the bride and groom and all of them happy. And it's just, it's just a lot of moving pieces. And I love like being in stressful situations like, Oh, I got to do this here and I got to do this here, but I can get it done. But it's just not that fun. It's not fun. Like having like a good, hard bar shit. I love those.

(35:31):

That's it just sucks. Yeah. That's, that's the best summary for COVID sucks and yeah, it's, it's trying to be, you know, right. The bartender. I mean, we are, I mean, obviously the celebration is of two people that really love each other, but we're like the second best when it comes to that, after that. Right. It's it's, it's the couple. And then it's us, like, we're the one that's supplying all this all this extra fun. Right. And so it's trying to be the cool kid that also has the elbow pads, knee pads and the helmet on skating down the block and trying to impress everybody. Like everybody's going to be like, ah, you know, that's a cool skateboard, but you still are kind of acting really dorky. And so it's yeah, it's definitely, it's definitely hard. And I, I feel a lot. I feel like we have a lot more pressure than a lot of other vendors. I mean, a lot of them take a lot of talents skill, but they don't have the same things that we have to deal with. I, part of me wishes, I started the floral business just to drop off flowers. This would be a whole different conversation right there. Those are pitch tuners, Daniella. This is amazing.

(36:49):

Yeah. I saw the cupcake lady. I know that those pillows cupcakes were amazing and she spent all morning making them and she's a talented woman, but she set up her little cupcake station and then walked away and I was like, Ooh, yeah, same sex. I should start making cupcakes. Like,

(37:06):

No, I mean that, no, I really do. You know, cause I'm like, you know, the biggest thing for me in the day is like clicking, like my little focus thing and then make sure that like, you know, that, that, you know, it's, I mean, it's just totally different. It's just totally different. And I, I feel for you guys so much, and that's why I even went, you know, jam was said, you gotta do the bartenders. And I said, I do. I know I said, because that is, it's the lifeblood of the party. There's so much going on. And just, you said just so much I, that was a great analogy. Now they really want, and that really was doing the, you know, the, the skateboarder with all the pads on trying to be safe and still be cool, you know?

(37:43):

No, that was good.

(37:44):

That's true. But you gotta, you gotta crack jokes. Like I'll have my mask on and you know, they'll come up and they'll not have their mask on and I'll be all okay. You know that I have just spit at you three times. My mask has caught that spit. What are you guys going to be doing here? You know,

(38:02):

In the meantime, just to, are we, are we just taking a break? Are we refining things? Are we looking for other stuff? I mean, how are you guys? I know, you know, right. I know you guys all work and everyone else's stuff. How are you guys just taking a break from weddings? I mean, what's going on? How, how is the mentality thing? Cause I know some people are just really kind of fed up at this point and I don't blame them. Right.

(38:24):

I mean, I am taking a bit of a break. I will help any client that I can and we're, we're moving and postponing. It's, it's a lot of man hours on the phone just I've spent, you know, easy a hundred hours on the phone and made one penny just rescheduled stuff. So I'm excited to spend some weekends with my kids and help the restaurants. And right now I'm just stacking every penny I can because I don't because I didn't get my stimulus or any unemployment for two months. And so that is through a good amount of my savings. You know, my son goes to nice school and all that. So when I got all that stuff, I paid my rent and left in advance. I paid my son's tuition a month in advance. So just kind of laying low, maybe enjoy the summer. But still very much keep an active role in the community and with my clients. So, so kind of 50, 50 some people are just getting fed up and throwing in the towel. Some are just going super gung ho. And so I'm just, yeah, just kind of in the middle, trying to take it, take it one day at a time. Jim, what about you?

(39:19):

Well, I'm pretty on the rock says diversified. We got so we have a friend in the wedding industry who was a wedding planner and he wasn't planning weddings. So he got a job with Microsoft and he's doing the event planning for the PhD internship program. So we are shipping cocktail boxes minus the alcohol across the U S and Canada. And then our lead bartender, Josh is logging into their teams and we're doing cocktail classes for their networking events and we've been doing it. We've done our second one now just last week. And then we were approached by a production company to white label the same thing, cocktail classes. So that's cool. My garden looks beautiful and, and I was floating in my pool the other day with my business partner, Claire. And I was like, why don't we do this more often? And she's like, because it's Saturday and we're usually at work. So

(40:22):

Yeah, I saw that and I saw the picture on the pool about that. I saw, I saw that you guys floating around. I was like, I've seen guys see you post pictures of your pool. That's out. I love it.

(40:32):

It's 12 feet across. We can social distance.

(40:36):

I'm on my way. I'll be there in an hour. Nigel I'm when I meet you again, I think you were talking to somebody, ah, I know you, when we talked on the, get to know your wedding pro, you were doing the you know, the, the boxes and everything, the cocktails to go, how's everything going for you guys? You know, right now we're doing quite well. We partnered with hungry greys worked with them on a couple of nonalcoholic. And then w we're just trying to do what we can at this point. And we're working with a lot of restaurants and trying to revamp, because we've noticed that with everything going on with SBA loans, a lot of restaurants in bars are reconstructing everything that they're doing, right. We've had the opportunity to kind of talk to them about what we're doing and they've, or they've seen what we've done at several events based off of people that I met. And we're just reconstructing bar menus, doing a lot of different consulting at this point and just trying to continue to move forward.

(41:34):

But that's pretty much just about it. Yeah. Just, you know, healthy partnerships, just trying to figure out different other ways to grow. Yeah. Are you guys worried when we come back into everything, how it's going to look for you guys? Is that just too far ahead to, to even stress about Jan?

(41:51):

I think it's just too far ahead right now. I don't, I mean, God bless the wedding industry for trying to get us back into play and they were successful. What they didn't bank on is people not being in compliance and spiking in, it's not just the wedding industry and the wedding venues and the planners that weren't working in compliance. It's, it's the beaches that have 2000 people at them and the bars that are packed. Right. It's, it's just everything that, that compounded and they just have to stop it. So I, I just don't think that we're going to be, we can't do anything right now. Cause I mean, we've tried, right. How many times have we rescheduled Rion? Like three times, four times. So I just don't, I think we just have to stay in a holding pattern, diversify, like Nigel's done and wait for it to come back with some stabilization.

(42:52):

Yeah. I finally had I'm I'm mr. Email email folder, all the folders in my inbox, mr. Email, whatever. And I finally had to make one. Yeah. Just for like the reschedules, you know, cause I used to just, you know, you have them and that's like my, I live by my inbox and my to do lists and like what's going on. And I go down every day and you know, trying to finally just happened to take, you know, however many, 10 or 12 that have come in since last week and just toss them in there. I mean, it's just crazy like that just the the avalanche that kinda came in since Thursday and just, you know, really trying to just be positive for everyone and just be supportive, but still obviously it's, it's sad about that. Well, this is, this has been interesting.

(43:36):

I was gonna hold this, but I think this is a good kind of check in about how everyone's doing and just kind of a general whatever. I really appreciate everyone taking the time. And I think this has been good. I think it's healthy to, to continue the discussion. I know the one that we posted today, I was really happy about and just hearing from everybody talking that and really getting the check in. And I think that people sit in and you worry and you read and did that. And I just think it's so nice to hear from people and see from people that we know and know that I think not everyone's alone and that a lot of people are feeling the same thing. Is there anything else I haven't asked you guys about that you're screaming in the back of your head saying, why is read being a dummy and not asking me about this today?

(44:18):

I think we're going to come back. I think we're going to come back strong, but in a different way.

(44:25):

Yeah.

(44:26):

And with the new immunization that we're taking, I mean, y'all are too young to remember. I was the kid that had the sugar keep on my tongue the kindergarten first and second grade because of polio. Right. That was a scary virus back in the late sixties, early seventies, they figured out a vaccine for it. So I think they're going to figure out a vaccine for this too. We just have to be patient.

(44:51):

Right. Right. How do you maintain that positivity? You're mr. You're mr. Positive, a bartender. How do you maintain that? Oh, I don't know. I'm just positive by nature. And I, I, I mean, I have my good days and my bad days, but I realized that we're all I say, we're all gonna survive. You know, it's very sad that some people have passed, but if we, if we just keep rolling, but it's all gonna be it's, it's all going to get there. Like Jan said, I mean, I don't know. And it sucks because like I said, I'm so blessed because I will survive and others did it. And maybe that's why I'm positive because even though I'm not flush with cash, like I am like, I should be right now in the middle of a busy season, I should be. But I don't know, just stay positive and it'll be fine.

(45:38):

We'll all get there. And if we don't, then we'll find some, some other means, you know we're all smart people. We all work hard. We all try hard in this industry. I love working with the other vendors and it'll all be fine. And I want to thank you personally, read for doing things like this because it's things like this to keep people connected. It keeps people in the know and in it. And I love the opportunity for, you know, us us three bartenders to talk to each other and just get it, you know, different vibes and feel. And it's, it's things like these are healthy things like these are good. So I stay push forward. I wanna ask you a question read. What's like a type of vendor, or like what's the most obscure group you're going to get together. Cause like photographers and bartenders and caters.

(46:19):

Those don't make sense, but what's like, like a weird group that you want to get together. Like that just sounds fun. Like, is there a group of yodelers you're like, dude, I got these three yodelers that like, this is crazy right now, but I got you guys, like, what do you think I should work on my magician round table? That's my, that's my, that's my my Mark out moment when we have like the magician people and I've done enough. I think I've done the math video work for enough magicians that we could get together a magician round table. Now we're not doing weddings by December. Maybe we'll do a, you know, if I'm still sitting here, maybe we'll get to the magician round table magicians. All right. All right. That was a great answer. Perfect. Nigel, take us home. Hi. How are you? And what's what's final thoughts for tonight. You know,

(47:08):

I'm still good in high spirits. I luckily have music with me that helps me become very creative.

(47:14):

Right. So even though, like you said earlier, it should be flushed with cash right now during this busy season. I've still been spending money. Like I am

(47:23):

For some reason homeowner. Exactly. Right. You know? And I've also been buying a lot

(47:30):

Of records, so, you know, I'm, I'm still happy because I still have this abundance of music that I can go and, you know, keep, keep listening to that keeps me happy. And I honestly believe all this trial and tribulation is going to make us stronger. I have my, I feel like my whole life there's always been stepping stones or hurdles that I've been just trying to get over it. And that's not a pun because I ran track, but it's just like, there's always just been something and every time we've, I've just come back stronger. And so I'm excited. I'm excited for everything that is the com. I mean, it's unfortunate because I know that businesses are going to be lost, especially as a business banker on the side. So I see a lot of this happening, but I believe, you know, it's, we're just going to be stronger and things are going to get better.

(48:16):

Maybe I'll work on my flair bartending a little bit, who knows, might be able to starting to flip some bottles here soon enough. I'm not that good at it now. I'm not promising it, but you know, I I'm, I'm just excited about everything. And honestly, I'm happy for this. Like the first free summer I had in like five years. Right. It's, it's, it's unique, you know, I mean, granted, I can't do anything. You know, we have in the car and we go to Lowe's, but besides that, like, you know, we have, it's, it's nice just to be kind of free somewhat and I'm happy. And I, despite, you know, not doing weddings, we have a lot of support in other areas. People love collaborating with us and we love collaborating with other business owners and we're also doing a lot nonprofit stuff with the NAACP right now. So it's, it's been very, very nice and I'm super happy. Yeah.

(49:08):

Well, like I said, this this was going to be one thing and then everything happened last week and it's become another thing. And then I do think this is valuable. So thank you guys so much for your time. Just a, a final plug before we go, we'll go around and I'll include everybody's stuff, but Nigel, we'll start with you and circle back. And anything else you want to apply before we go?

(49:28):

Oh yeah. So you mean a certain name and stuff? So yeah. Yeah. So I'm Nigel Lindsey owner of Revolution by the Barrel. I'm, I'm not that clueless to forget what my business is. We are a craft cocktail catering company and yeah,

(49:44):

Perfect Rion. My name is Rion McConnehey I'm owner at My Perfect Bartender. Yeah, just bar services, mobile bar services all over the state, full consultations. Any questions you can have another thing to my email's super backlog, but I'm one of the few people that picks up. Do you guys pick up the phone? I pick up the phone, nobody picks up the phone these days, so you can call me at any time and I will return your call. And Jan, my my, my old friend I tell take us home. Hey, I'm Jan Fernandez. I am partner and compliance officer at Party on the Rocks, event staffing and mobile bar service. We actually have a Washington state liquor license so we can bring the party. Awesome. And I always remember meeting you at this yellow wedding show or shoulder

(50:28):

A five, how many years ago now? So it's, it's great. Everybody's still on it. Yeah. well, thank you guys so much again we'll, we'll get some more of these round tables going, but I do appreciate you know, the bartenders stepping in as always and bringing, bringing some good insights. So thank you guys again. If you are listening to you, you have a question for a future episode, you can go to www.bestmadevideos.com/survey. We have all the vendors organized by type. If you have questions for, you know, certain vendor types, I would love to do that. And normally I do big call to calls for questions with obviously it's a little testy times right now with getting these few recorded. So thank you guys again. And take care, stay safe.

Episode 8 - “What now?” Emergency Podcast

(00:08):

So much for joining us early on a Sunday and kind of doing this emergency Best Made Weddings® podcast. I had a wonderful catering discussion with with Act 3 Catering and Tuxedos and Tennis Shoes and Chef Navi that we were going to post tomorrow. And obviously that's blown out the window now with all this, you know, no receptions and weddings. So I just kind of wanted to get everybody together. I know Kelly and I were talking about this on Thursday, right after it happened. And I said, Hey, let's get just some good voices together and get kind of a conversation going about how people are processing the news. If you guys have heard from your clients and then kind of, you know, some ideas and we'll get into all of that too. So Shiloh, why don't we just start with you? Why don't you introduce yourself and tell us who you are.

(00:51):

I'm Shiloh Abbott. I am the owner and lead planner of The Bubbly Soiree.

(00:58):

And Callie and Callie. What about you?

(01:00):

Hey, I'm Callie with Holcomb Weddings and Event. I'm out of Tacoma

(01:05):

And Kellie. Who's responsible for getting this whole thing together. Who are you?

(01:09):

My name is Kellie Blair and your response will not be, I am the manager of Historic 1625 an event venue and Tacoma.

(01:17):

Why don't we just start with you? Obviously we were kind of texting realtime on Thursday. This is obviously in response to the, you know, updated regulations about the governor Inslee saying, you know, no, no wedding receptions severely limiting the number of guests and everything. So what was kind of your reaction hearing that real time and what was, what was kind of that process like?

(01:38):

Yeah, I mean, I had gotten word kind of early in the week that there was going to be, you know, [inaudible] announcement on Thursday, if something important wedding related didn't really know to the extent of what it was going to be. And I think when I just got, I mean, obviously I was just mentally prepared for a limiting number. I think just tailoring it back because I felt his initial allowance was pretty generous in what was allowed but seeing kind of the coven numbers spike, and then knowing what we were allowed to do, I was mentally prepared to take her. But I think there was actually like, obviously a shock value in, you know, it says no reception, 30 people only it's like, great. That puts us out like 25 guests and maybe a few people working and that's that and totally changed the world. So I think Thursday night I feel like I got slapped in the face punched and like got kicked a few times. It was one of those days I opened a bottle of wine for dinner, but I think I was just kind of like shocked and just kind of numb and kind of processed it and now digesting it. Now what's our game plan is kind of where I'm at right now.

(02:42):

Yeah. Kelly, what about you?

(02:46):

Well we, like I said, like Kelly knows, we kinda were like waiting for something to happen and it was hard. I mean, here's the thing we're watching this all happen and my phone is blowing up right here. Just next to like with brides are like, what do we do? What do we do? What did we do? And especially with a couple who has a wedding on the 7th of August that was completely planned. And now it's, you know, now we're essentially changing game plans again. And, you know, that's just one of our many clients, but, you know, I think that like part of this is dealing with the process of the change. And I think that a lot of these couples, like we've all kind of gone through, you know, this, you know, it's almost like, I don't know, like seven months or what is it, grief, whatever the whole, you know, there's seven stages of grief, whatever it is, whatever.

(03:32):

But like, I feel like our couples also need to like go through that process in order to like shift. And so like the conversations we had on Thursday are totally different than the conversations that we had with like even yesterday and this morning, it's like, they finally need to like process it. And I just think like all of us, we all need to process it too. But yeah, it was, I mean, we were kind of expecting it, but I think that the fact that they're like no reception really put like the kind of a dagger into the whole piece too.

(04:03):

Yeah. So what about you?

(04:05):

It, it felt like a, a big like, okay there, you like that kind of finalizes a lot of stuff and it's, you know, again what the gal said, like we knew that something was coming, we just didn't expect it to be that it's just, it's just so devastating. It just felt like a big blow. And I mean, just like Kelly said, like conversations that I had with, I had an August 8th wedding, it was all planned out. We had literally the day before just finalized everything. I had my waivers in place ready to go do everything by the book. And then boom, you know, two days ahead of it is when everything stops. So it's like, what do you do? You just go into damage control, you start figuring out what the best alternative to be would be if there is one you're trying to process what exactly the all means and lots of emotions.

(04:58):

Yeah. I think it's, it's so hard to just because I think a lot, well, at least I know I had, you know, may have blown out June, blown out, July blown out, you know, except for kind of limited engagements, but you know, are kind of mid August on couples really were holding pretty firm email. And our one, like on the 15th, I think I was telling Kelly, you know, when all this, when we were texting, you know, like booked year and a half ago, paid in full, like never a waiver at all, you know, like a waiver of this is going to happen. And now you're like you know, what are we going to do? Right. And so I do think that it's like where it's, it's such in the heart of the season now, where I do think that people really thought we would have something else at this point is, is really tough. What, what kinds of conversations have you guys been having with your clients? Shallow, we'll start with you and circle back around to me. I know I'm sure you guys have had a myriad of, you know, different talks, but what is the general consensus or vibe?

(05:57):

I immediately had a couple of councils that were just like, forget it. We're going to next year. We're not dealing with this. I've had lots of conversations with the August 8th couple they've ended up canceling that altogether. They're looking at possibly eloping. There's just, I think that they're so overwhelmed with everything that they just can't even think about trying to do. Cause they were going to be out of town. So, you know, they're talking about living at closer and you just go through all of these different things. And it's like, I think that some people are still processing it. I have a couple who lives out of town that they were in town this week. And I talked to them before the announcement and then after, and it's like, they're like, we can't even process this until we get home. So it's just, everyone has their own process. Everyone has different situations with whatever family's coming into town or whether they want to just go in and do a small ceremony at this point. It's it's on a case by case basis.

(06:51):

Kelly, what about you?

(06:53):

I would say that I'm like same Shiloh like that, where I have a lot of clients that are like, I'll talk to you next week and I'm like, go for it. Like have the time to sit through it, talk through it, feel it out and make a decision that's right for you. And then I have had three or four this morning and over the weekend that are like, so we're going next year. Okay. Let's do it. So, you know, and, and for us, I tell I'm like, I'm letting all her clients, like we're here for you no matter what, really no wrong way to do any of this. I mean, other than have a reception now he can't do that. But you know, the decisions that they're going to make, it's like you can either have a small intimate ceremony. Now you can have a secret ceremony now and then have a big, huge party next year.

(07:35):

Or you can just say, pour go the whole thing and get married next year. I mean, I think what we're finding with a lot of our clients is that a lot of the reasons they're getting their grade this year have a lot to do with, you know, the next steps of their life. They want to have babies. They want to buy homes. They want to finish school. They like, there's a lot of things that like each of our couples are going through. And I think that like deciding what's best for them this time and giving them the space to do that and saying like, Hey, here's some options. You don't need to make a decision today. But like, just like, you know, like here's some options for you now and we're here to support you, whatever that means. And so, you know, I think that a lot of our clients are just, they it's an emotional time and just hearing a couple options that might sound maybe not ideal at the time, but as they go through it and I feel like it helps them,

(08:24):

Kelly, I'm sure you were fielding a lot of calls you know, historic boats, you know, Thursday night and Friday, and I'm sure, you know, continuing to get emails and stuff. What, what's it kind of been for you guys?

(08:35):

Yeah. So we, with every announcement we try and touch base with those impacted and essentially Thursday, I just kind of took that night to just kind of pass us things. I touched base with, you know, August couples got on the phone immediately with one of our couples who had already postponed for may. They weren't gung ho ready for late August and had Thursday morning just emailed me and said, Hey, you know, we touched base with our whole guest list. We have 85 people coming. Like we want to do this. And then I had to call them and be like, well, your decision has been made for you. Unfortunately like just an emotionally draining conversation. But trying to really get ahead of it. I have at the time this airs I'll have touch base with every single 20, 20 couple. And just picking up the phone and emailing, Hey, let's chat, what's going on just to kind of feel out where everyone's at.

(09:21):

And there's really the spectrum. I mean, I always like have to process the news of the announcement and then have to process like great. Now I have to have these 50 phone calls and these 50 conversations that usually aren't that exciting and that fun. But I think our couples are kind of all over the place. You know, some are wanting to postpone six months, year out, something like that, but there's also couples who like still want to plan as normal for the fall. And like think at some point we're gonna be able to have a reception and those conversations are always hard because, I mean, I think I've been very hopeful during this. And if you had told me, like, we're not going to have a 20, 20 wedding season back in February, March, I would have been like, you're crazy. I will have lost my mind.

(10:01):

Like that's insane. And I just try to have, you know, talk to these couples and be like, I don't think your October wedding is going to happen with 2200 people in reception. Like I hate to say that and I would love if we could. So there's kind of a spectrum. I would say a lot of people for the fall are taking their time to just process it, to talk to friends and family, to figure out what they want to do. A lot of people are just kind of holding off to make a decision because there's no rush and they want to wait this out, but people are kind of all over. I mean, it's not fun having those conversations, but it's also, I mean, I think the silver, I was trying to find a silver lining. I think the silver lining of COBIT is I've gotten to know a lot of our couples this year more than nine normally would have as a venue.

(10:46):

We're not overly hands on. We're more hands on than some venues, but I really have like personal like relationships with a lot of these couples, which is my little silver lining, but I hate having to have this. I mean, knowing I dread it, like it's not fun, kind of talking and being like, you know, the state of drain of your whole life is not happening, how you thought, and here's your options since not a great option, but you know, 30 people ceremony only is not great, but how can we get you the day that you've been wanting?

(11:14):

Yeah, it's so hard. Cause I was, I was totally guilty with that too. I mean, I remember back we had, right when this all started, we had one of our Memorial day wedding couples, you know, she was messaging me about stuff and I'm like, you're I we're good. We good. Like, we'll be, you know, I was like, and the may like will be totally fine. And I remember even talking with Allen Chitlin, who's been on the podcast, a DJ, you know, and he says, I just remember back him saying like, you know, if we're if we're still having these conversations in August, you know, the country will be in really terrible shape if this is like still a thing, but it is, and we are. And so it is kind of, you know, yeah, it is. So in thinking about how they're kind of framed this conversation today, you know, I know that there's going to be a lot more regulations to come out, you know, tomorrow or clarification.

(12:01):

So I don't want to incredibly date anything. So, you know, I wanted to talk about, you know, things that we know and things that hopefully will be you know, still acceptable, you know, we were before we started recording, you know, I don't like the idea of looking at some of these regulations and trying to find things that are, you know, outside of, you know, like nitpicking something in it. You know, I like to look at these things as kind of the spirit of you know, whatever they're trying to get across. And I do in talking with Dorothy yesterday. I think having, you know, 30 people at a ceremony is very different than having 30 people at the reception. As much as people don't want to, you know, couples or whoever don't want to hear that, like it is different. And I equated it to Dorothy that if there's a, if someone's giving the toast to the reception and I, as the videographer have to go up and like adjust the microphone, that might be like a little odd, but you would be like, okay, like we're all kind of, we're trying to get the best thing we can if I walked up in the middle of a ceremony and try to like fill it with the priest microphone or whatever, that would be like a really odd thing because of like the sanctity and just kind of like everyone being in place and how it is.

(13:08):

So I think that's kinda my thought process behind it. I know Kelly, when you were talking about giving a couple of some options and things you guys are working through, whether some of those things that you guys have been talking about.

(13:18):

Yeah. well, a lot of what, basically we're just giving the options to the clients to say like, you know what, and asking the questions first what's important, you know, is the party important? Is the ceremony important and like really trying to pinpoint, or is the overall day important, like really trying to figure that help them sort of process even what they think is the most important part. And then, you know, going from there, you know, if dancing at your wedding is a really big deal to you, which a lot of my couples, I mean girls and guys and moms and dads, and that's a big part of the tradition of a wedding for a lot of couples and a lot of families. And if you can't have that at your wedding, it really puts like a really like, that's not real. I mean, of course you have a ceremony, everything, but like the party's not there and the anticipation and excitement out there.

(14:09):

So in that case, I'm recommending like let's push, let's push off for a whole nother year, you know, let's, you know, let's have they'd party next year. Let's have the, if it's important for you to have a ceremony this year and for you to be married in 2020, for whatever reason, let's have a ceremony this year and push off the party the next year. For some couples, honestly, I have quite a few couples that are like the guy or girls, like I wanted a backyard wedding to begin with. And I'm really having all the pressure to have this huge party. And this is like a blessing in disguise because I get to actually have the really intimate ceremony that I really, really wanted without all the mumbo jumbo and everything. And in that case, I'm letting couples, I'm like, let's alone, let's have that 30% that ceremony let's let you walk down the aisle, let it be really intimate and amazing. So, you know, for us, it's just trying to figure out, cause all of our couples are different. All of our families are different and it's just helping them navigate what they really want and helping them get to that next point. So

(15:13):

That's good. It's a shallow, what about you?

(15:17):

Same kind of thing. It's totally a case by case basis. The people who have wanted to postpone have done it because they can't have the ceremony for the ceremony and wedding that they've always envisioned. And so it just makes sense to push things off to next year. There are still people who want both, so they'll possibly do a small ceremony, which, I mean, I guess we have to be happy that that still allows. So you know, they'll do that with their closest family and friends and then you know there'll be married, so they'll get that done. You know, and then they can move on. And I think a big part is that, that people, these couples have been waiting so long and they've gone through so many emotions to get to this point that having Thursday's announcement was just kind of like, okay, we're either doing this or we're not, and if we're doing it, this is what it's going to be like, no more questions just let's pick away, pick something to do. And so I think that that in a way is helping people, but it's just hard. So they're all just trying to figure it out and we're there to help them with whatever.

(16:28):

Yeah. I mean, certainly, yeah, certainly the thoughts go with everyone. I mean, that's what I've said all along with, I just feel so bad. You know, I remember planning a wedding and it was hard enough and now it's like, like, you know, let alone dealing with all this Kelly. I know that you guys have talked about doing some, you know, smaller, low bins and things at the, at the venue. Are you guys, how are the conversations going? Are you trying to you know, still be accommodating for people and what they, what they can do right now? Or how are those conversations or are you still, and you can certainly still be building that stuff out, right?

(16:58):

Yeah. I mean, we're still working on kind of how we want to pivot our business and what's going to be our game plan for kind of the rest of the year. But in talking with couples, you know, a lot of them are looking at themselves and kind of just understanding why they're getting married and kind of looking at it like we want to get married because of, you know, the marriage, the commitment, that part. And there's a lot of those couples who are like one, want to get married, like the party, not as important, it's important. They want to celebrate with their friends and family, but like they want to be able to make that commitment to each other. And we've always during the school time, like offered in our postponement options, kind of like a complimentary small ceremony. And so we do have, you know, a few couples who are wanting to, you know, Tylenol now and then celebrate later.

(17:41):

And so it's something that we've kind of been talking about for a while. Just never really had to cement the details because, you know, we weren't really in the world of doing, but now that's the only world we're in is doing those small ceremonies. And so we're definitely working on options just to be able to release. And I'm excited to be able to celebrate with those who want to celebrate. We get, since this whole Kogan nonsense started, we haven't had a wedding since March 13th. That was our last one. And we get one under the radar, August 2nd. So during all of this, all the changes and everything, we're just gonna get one wedding in and it's crazy to look. I mean, our calendar is whited out. Why did out, why did out there's names that have been in there since the spring, then now the fall and now, you know, disappearing. But we aren't being, we're trying to just still, I think, process the emotions in those conversations with clients before we can think about ourselves kind of playing the therapists punching bag role, and that comes with the industry, but yeah, we were working on it and we have some small ceremonies coming up with some clients. So it'll be exciting to just have something to celebrate, see them kind of a little shining light during all of this. So it will be exciting to kind of make that happen.

(18:50):

Yeah. It's, it's tough with the, you know, the two week, you know, the, whatever they call it, the mortar or the, whether the grace period, whatever. And it's, you know, it, it ends right before like eight eight, which is, you know, one of the sponsors. Yeah.

(19:02):

You already lost six, six that way. Eight out of 10, 10. Yeah,

(19:08):

I know. Yeah. And it is, it's, it's getting to the point. Yeah. We're, you know, I guess I look at my own calendar and you know, it's like every day, then September, October, November, that everyone's like pushed stuff too. And now it is scary to think of if it's, you know, how long it's going to continue. And obviously, you know, we don't want to like fear and speculate, but it is, it is worrisome to wonder how long, you know, the reception bands is, is going to go. What do you guys thinking about trying to incorporate some other details and things into it, you know, the ceremony, or I know there's been some posts about, you know, maybe doing like readings, but having to be some sort of toasts and things to make it feel like it's a little bit more including some of those things. Have you guys seen any of those posts that I've seen, have you thought about any of that stuff? Just trying to give, you know, a couples planning, like tangible ideas that they can that they can work with, you know, to, to build out their ceremony a little bit more Kelly you're nodding, have you, have you seen any of that?

(20:05):

I have, yeah. I've heard talks of it and seen it, I think, and also have those conversations with some clients. I think some people are, you know, we're wanting the intimate, the small little ceremony. They still want the wedding day experience or want to be able to look back and have those photo moments, I guess. And so some people are, you know, chatting about doing, instead of like the ceremonial, like unity candle, you know, coming together and cutting the cake cause that's, you know, symbolic, you know, the same thing of sorts. And some of them just want, you know, you know, we want to kind of cake and have a cute little cake and, or doing toast or hearing from friends and family. So I'm having those conversations. It's just hard to kind of play with the gray area. Think about, you know, loopholes devil's advocate when we don't really have solidified details of what's allowed.

(20:52):

What's not. And so it's kind of just, what if conversations are doing meals to go or how do you still have, you know, a wedding day experience within a ceremony only limit. So I'm seeing those posts, I'm having those conversations kind of seeing what other people do and just kind of curious to see what's gonna be allowed and what's not, and kind of we're creative in this industry. So we're going to get creative with no matter what, but how is it being creative within what's allowed versus being creative and doing something that we know we're not supposed to do and trying to justify it. So I think that's kind of a struggle right now.

(21:25):

Yeah. Kelly, whether about USA, you kind of nodded.

(21:28):

Yeah. I mean, we're, I'm having a lot of, out of the box ideas coming out. And I think that that's like, you know, I feel like our industry, you know, it's a very traditional and we have a very systemized way of things, you know, and that people know. And I think that like part of this is just saying like, okay, what can we do within the restrictions and how can we still make this amazing? And I mean, I even had a bride say, she's getting married on 10, 10. And she's like, well, let's just finalize it. And she may or may not. But you know, the option is like, what if we got married at the Starbucks that we had our first date? Like, what if it's just the two of them and the officiant and like, everyone's just standing around with coffee. And I know it sounds like really funky and weird, but like, these are like little things that are like kinda funky.

(22:15):

I'm like, is it even possible? Can we do that? I don't know. But like, that's kind of a fun thing to do. And it is that moment and it is their day. And so it's like, how can we create something that's more, more than maybe is outside the box. But like, even for us, like we put together in a little bit package right now just to help all these couples and we're partnering with venues and we're just doing a, you know, and cause there's a lot of couples that they don't want to think about anything at this point. They're like, I want to get married to the love of my life and we can have up to 30 people here. It is. Here's, you know, photographer, here's the music here's flowers get married. And then, you know, from that point on they're, they're up to do whatever they're gonna do.

(22:59):

But but for us, it's just, you know, we're just creating some fun things that I do think I love the idea of like having, you know, like a cake cutting instead of a sand ceremony. Like I think that's so fun. And like, those are things that's important to you to have a cake cutting thing. Let's just do it, you know, or maybe you spend that bread down the aisle or as you walk down and that's your first dance is that you, you dance your way back down the aisle. So, you know, kind of putting some of those things in place.

(23:28):

So what about you?

(23:31):

Yeah, I mean, I've been talking to clients about figuring out how we can work in the cake, cutting during the ceremony and things like that. You're having conversations about like, okay, if we're going to do this in the backyard, let's, you know, you don't need the basic, like white resin chairs, like let's rent some cool sofas for people to sit in and have it be like a fun garden party type thing, you know, just, just changing it up and elevating your traditionally, you know, your traditional views on what a wedding looks like and thinking of different ideas as to how to change it out with a little bit. And I think that that's, that's my silver lining and try to look at all this is that we're becoming more creative and having to think outside the box for ceremonies and weddings in general and just looking at like, okay, well, if we can't do this, what else can we do? And that kind of thing. And so I think that's nice. Same thing. I think that allotments are great. I think that the more that you can package them together and let these poor couples not have to worry or think about anything, just like go on and get married. Cause they've already worried so much through this year that let's make it easy for them. So yeah.

(24:43):

Yeah, no, I agree. I think I love the idea of, you know, the creativity and really trying to figure out what's important within the rules. Right. I think that, that, you know, whatever my advice would be, you know, for anybody, you know, trying to get married still. Any of, any of the weddings we've been livestreaming, a ton of weddings since kind of all this has gone on and all of the ceremonies that we've done have been safe within the rules, all that stuff. And the I'm trying to think the two actual like reception receptions we'd done were unsafe. Right. And they were outside of you know, now what would be allowed. And that's probably because of, you know, receptions like I did. And we had a photographer round table a couple of weeks ago. And they talked a lot about the receptions that they did, you know, and, and they weren't safe.

(25:37):

Right. And this is probably why this happened. Right. You know, where it's, it's not, you know, these decisions aren't like arbitrary where it's like, well, I think like I do agree with a lot of what the rules are because that, that is what I saw. And that is what every vendor that I've talked to on this podcast for the last nine weeks has said is that you know, ceremonies were safe and, and, and that when a lot of time and care was placed into that, and the receptions were not as much as good, you know, as much as the couples have good will and intention, you know, I don't think anyone tries to go out whatever and, you know, break the rules. But yeah. So I love the idea of having the creativity and really just downsizing that to what is so important and just like getting it done and feeling like you're done with it and you can move on.

(26:23):

And, and yeah, I totally agree. Go, go get married at the Starbucks and, and do that. I mean, I think that that's great or, you know, have a, having the weldment and keep it really small. Kelly, I know that you attended a wedding that was like a zoom wedding. And I, we, we did we do the live streams. We actually did a, a zoom wedding yesterday with this company called web fully. Which if anyone, I would honestly recommend them. It was a really good experience there. I think they're based out of Denver, but they kind of coordinate like bringing in your guests and like putting together a slideshow and putting together a video and like breakout rooms. And it's like a whole thing. It's not like you're just watching whatever Kelly, what was your experience with that for people that still want to do a wedding and have it be safe and still incorporate you know, friends and family that way.

(27:15):

Yeah. So I, my cousin got married like back in April, maybe in New York and it was important to him and his wife time, he just needed to, it was a little bit more urgent wise, not necessarily COVID just time was of the essence. And I'm getting married in the Catholic church was important. So they had no very small wedding. It was my cousin Connor and then his now wife, just her family was there, you know, parents and siblings and then the priest and the two of them. And so the church did like a live YouTube of the ceremony, which was really nice. So we got that live streaming. We all could watch that on our own. And then they had emailed out a zoom link. So we all, you know, hopped into a zoom room. There's like a hundred, I don't know, a ton of us.

(27:58):

And it was really fun. So we kind of all got on there and just kind of chatted with each other. And then my uncle that it's, and there's a communal website that we can all be a part of. And so there's different activities on there, like making one of those like graphics where you all kinda describe a word and then like the ones that get put in the most kind of get bigger. I don't know what they're called. So we got one of those and then they got it printed and framed as like a present for the couple. And then my uncle essentially served as kind of the MC DJ of the evening. And you know, he called out people and we did toast, you know, toast here and there and everything was recorded. So they have that. And then we did dancing. So, you know, all got up in our living wherever we were and, you know, did the YMCA, did some of those fun dances?

(28:40):

And then at one point you know, the couple have made the grand entrance. So after they had, you know, signed the papers and kind of celebrated, they then hopped on the zoom and did an entrance. And back in time, I was like, Oh God, like, is this going to be the norm or what's expected, but it was really cool. I think that there's a way to be able to have your intimate ceremony, but still be able to celebrate with your friends and family from a distance. And that's just a part of the whole pivoting and being creative and how do we still do things? And so, I mean, shout out to my uncle Mike, because this was like a really fun wedding wedding. Yeah. Back in April or whatnot, and we could do it, you know, yoga pants and nice top and patter mimosas and all cheers. It was, it was fun. But looking back, I was like, uncle Mike, I think you've got to have an idea. You should, you know, get going on this. And, but it's fun. And I think it's, I've talked through that with some couples and that's something that they're going to run with. So it's nice that there are options because it's important to celebrate with people who've supported you and you want to make them a part of your day. But right now it's just, you know, trying times and figuring out how to do it.

(29:43):

Yeah. I though we had talked about it when you and I, I am a little bit of a cynic and I'll also admit when I was wrong, you know, when I'm wrong in the past. And I remember you were telling me about that and I think I laughed. And then even when they, when this couple hired me and I looked, I'm like, what is this site? And I look at the site and I saw the video and they put together like a five minute thing, like yo zoom wedding. And this is what you can do. And like, they were showing people like dancing. I'm like, this is just, this is all BS, right? Like there's no way, like, this is so dumb. Like no one would ever do this.

(30:13):

You have to buy into, I mean, at first I was like, Oh God, this is so awkward up. And do the Y YMCA at 11:00 AM, come on through a whole Catholic mass

(30:24):

Yesterday. They were, they were Italian. So all their family was in Venice and they have like 40 computers on the call and they did their first dance. And by God, all those freaking people got up and they're all dancing in like their living rooms and, you know, wherever the hell and, and, you know, eight, it was like eight at night, you know, cause we did it like in the morning with the time change and everything. But I mean even the, the Carolyn or whoever the girl was that was you know, my like tech person for the day, she's like, wow, like that was like really cool. And I was like, wow, I never, you can, I wouldn't have given a thousand dollars and thought that that would have happened when we were booking that. So I will say you know, that I, there was definitely something that I recommend have Kelly and Chella. Have you guys had any experience with virtual stuff yet? Or have you had any talks with anybody about that? Do you think you might

(31:13):

Not? I wouldn't say anybody yet. I like, I'm kind of watching that happen, but I will say that now I think people are becoming more curious as to that next step, you know, they never, and so I think that having it available right now, it's great. Cause it's like, let's offer it. I think it's, I think it's fun. I think it's a great idea. I think that it's something that is definitely worth looking into, especially with people living out of the country or across the country or anything like that, then it really brings people in this one school.

(31:44):

Are you guys worried about and maybe shall we can start with you, are you guys worried about, I know I had a couple of weddings. We were getting ready to book. Just, you know, we had the ADA, we were talking to cause we've, you know, however many we've lost on that day and a couple others. And they were like, Hey, if it, if we can't do it, like we're not postponing. We're just like, we're not doing it. Like we're just pulling the plug. Like it's been too much. Are you guys, have you heard that? Are you worried about that? Just a couple of just being like, you know what, like FL like I just can't, it's just too much because I get it right. I mean, I totally get it if I just be too much, if you have you had any of those talks yet?

(32:22):

I actually yeah, I've had a lot of them throughout this entire thing. Starting with 4th of July, a couple all the way up to, you know, now they're just people who had long time ago, who just as soon as covert hit, they were like, Nope, they waited for the end of may to make a decision when he was supposed to change things and open things up. But yeah, a lot of people just can't even, they haven't been able to just think about it. And so they just flat out canceled. And then even couples that I booked since beginning COVID who have said, no, we're doing it. This is what we're doing. We are pushing through. And then they just went, Nope, Nope. We're not doing it. We're done.

(33:06):

So it's just, it's again, it's a case by case basis and even couples who are fully ready to do everything, they were ready to wear the masks. We had talked about, you know, what to do during dinner, what to do during their cocktail hour, they were going to do trivia with all their tables sitting down. And I mean, they were ready. They're ready to go. And then as soon as Thursday hit, they were like, Nope, we're moving. Okay. So you just never know the people that you think are going to stick with. It just never know. It's always evolving.

(33:41):

Kelly, what about you? Have you had some of those talks? I know they're hard.

(33:45):

Yeah. I mean, I, I, you know, right when this whole COVID thing had, I had three or four clients that are like, forget it. We're just going to a low on the day of our wedding. We're not even having the ceremony, which was so, you know, kind of going into that. And then now that like things have shifted even more. I've had a couple that are like, yep, we're staying hard to it. And some that are like, we already got married, we just said, forget it. We're done. Like, that was it. And I said, okay, you know, and like, no, teacher's own again, case by case basis. But it is surprising to watch the ones that are like that. You're like, Oh, okay. And then the ones that you think we're going to hold on are gone. And the ones that you're like, no, they're going to be done. They're the ones holding on the artist now. So it just changes every day.

(34:32):

Yeah. Kelly, what about you? Any of those hard talks?

(34:35):

Yeah, same obviously the same. I think it's a little different just as a venue wise. It's with us plans changes their need for us changes, I guess, too. A lot of people are, I would say majority of them are holding out hope and wanting to still celebrate at some point, it's just kind of figuring out when that timing's going to be in the world. But some are still doing smaller ceremonies. And with us offering the option to a small ceremony, there are a lot of them are grateful that great it's all planned. We have somewhere to go because I think some people are just sick of thinking, sick of making decisions, sick of doing everything. And so I think probably less as a quote conversations then Kelly and Shiloh, just because, I mean, we're just the venue part. So they're going to be with us or they're not, but most are holding on.

(35:19):

I think Kelly is how do I close

(35:22):

Technical technical here I am here. I need some gum.

(35:28):

Yeah. I'm going to mute Kelly for a second there. No, but like she was saying Kelly was saying about, you know, finding out that the couples you know, ended up getting or whatever. It's so hard. And I was going to mention earlier when you guys, you know, Kelly was talking about, you know, reaching out to all the 20, 20 couples and whatever, that would be my biggest advice of, you know, anybody getting married and then any vendor at all is making sure you email everybody. And I know that that's hard and I know that that's scary sometimes because I do think I've talked with a lot of photographers and I think it's kind of this head in the sand, like, well, if I don't email them, then they're not going to cancel. Cause they don't like, I don't know. It just seems like it's a weird, like you're afraid.

(36:08):

Right? And you're like, well, if I email them, then that's going to spook them and then they're going to whatever. And it's like, you can't, I don't know. Like as soon as that Thursday thing happened, like, you know, Dorothy and I walked and then came back and I said, you know, I crafted whatever. And I got a lot of good response, you know? I mean the same way that my emails back in March and everything. And I think that you know, your couples just want you to know that you're thinking about them. And, but my advice yes would be for couples too, is like, definitely I'm letting people know. You know, if you are thinking about changing the day and like what those dates might be, you know, cause there's nothing worse. I've heard so many vendors say like, Hey, you know, they picked a new date already.

(36:48):

I'm not available. And now, you know, it's like, and they didn't even have like a chance to, you know, move whatever or try to be there. And that's what I've told everybody Shiloh, whether you w what's some advice you're giving couples right now, planning. I mean, I know it's hard. I know there's so many unknowns, but whether you, someone listening, you know, whether it's a vendor or a couple of what would be some advice as to kind of get through everything right now. I mean, I know you've seen a lot of different stuff in your career.

(37:14):

I think that the big thing is to talk with your partner, talk with your family, look at your, your situation with your guests and see what works best, what your plans are for the next year. Figure out what's most important to you. Like Kelly was saying earlier, and it's like, is it to get married? Is it, you know, do you have something life changing happening in the next year? Do you want to have a baby? Do you need, you know, as someone deploying, you know, is there a need to get married? And so let's figure out how to make it a great ceremony if you want to just delay. And if that's easier for you with everything that's going on to postpone and let's do that. So I think it's, it's again, back to the case by case basis. But I think that you need to look at talking to your partner and your families and figure out what's really important for everyone.

(38:07):

Kelly, what about you?

(38:09):

I think in like community being open and just having that, I mean, they're not fun conversations. And I think me personally, you know, it says like forthright, I don't know how many rounds that I've had these draining conversations and it wears on you. And I just always feel like I'm disappointing my clients, just having to tell them this news. Like, I feel like I'm the one who's, you know, the bearer of bad news or whatnot. And I think me shifting that mindset has been huge. And I think like advice to vendors is, I mean, knowing this is out of your control, but helping, you know, using our experience, you think all that we know in all our, you know, past weddings, I mean, we're talking industry, we go through a lot and I think this is our time to shine and be there for a couples.

(38:50):

You know, they get one shot at this, but it's something that we typically do every weekend, but just not taking it personally. I know that's way easier said than done. But you know, building that relationship and just being there for them, I think just always in anything in life, knowing that you have someone to reach out, to takes away a lot of the stress. So just being that someone for your couples is huge. And then I think if I started, you know, couples it's just, you know, being patient being, you know, trying to have an open mind, I think it's tough. I think something that we deal with a lot as vendors is we've kind of see a tunnel vision for our clients. It's like, you know, to them, it's that our biggest day of her life. And it's like on our end, we're dealing with a hundred of you.

(39:32):

And I think just telling couples, like just be patient, be understanding but reach out when you can just know, like we're all digesting this too. But I think, I mean, I think this, I think the Kobe couples, the ones who kind of come out are going to be probably some of the strongest marriages that we see. I think they're going to be some of those couples who had time to, you know, look at themselves, look at their relationship with their partner. And really, I think that these marriages are going to be some that probably last longer than others. I think that's going to be something sweet to see and really see them focused on the marriage part. And the other party is important, but I think centering themselves on why they're getting married is something that these couples are going to have to do. And I'm excited to see the, you know, the futures of the couples.

(40:21):

Kelly, are you done with your travel adventures? I'm going to unmute you now, how you were in a different space now what's going on?

(40:29):

No, I had, I had literally had a dog barking at the door and all of a sudden I'm like, Oh my God. I was like, hold on. So sorry about that. I wanted to run into the other room. Yeah, so I'm, I'm back. I would say that like, you know, when I even blending our couples now, I said, and that's the same thing. Like literally letting them know that like, these are the things, this is what marriage is about. And this is not about, this is you're talking about a wedding, but what you're dealing with is like marriage stuff. And that's a lot of our couples. It's like, you have to remember that you're not having, you're having a wedding to get married, to deal, you know, to start a life with somebody. And I think it's like trial by fire. I mean, this is the time that they're either going to, it's like a make or break it thing.

(41:12):

And I mean, I'm married 11 years this year and I'm like, it is challenging enough, you know, for this. And I think that like, if these couples can go through this, now it will just make them stronger as couples. And you know, nobody wants to hear that in the present. Everyone's like, Oh, like I get it. Like, I'm a wedding planner. I want you to have a wedding. But like, you know, like, remember that, like this is a season, this is just a small thing. And you're getting, you're going to look back at this at 50 75, hopefully 75 years of marriage. And you're going to say, remember when we got married in the time of Corona and how crazy it was, and like, it was a blur on the screen. And so I'm trying to help them remember and also, you know, being engaged.

(41:57):

I think a lot of couples forget that being engaged is also part of the process. And it's like, you get to be engaged to each other for a whole nother year and you get to be like, it's, it's like, you're almost extending the honeymoon time. So I would say for me for a couple of hours, just trying to look at it from a really different perspective. I mean, I'm letting my couples have know. I'm like, Oh, that means I get to hang out with you a whole nother year. I'm super excited. Like yay. And then some couples are probably like, okay, I just, you know, I've been, I've been with you for like a year and a half. Like I'm ready to get married even though we're friends. But you know, and then for, you know, for all of us, it's, it's a changing, ever changing topic that we have to remember too, that like it.

(42:40):

And I think for even our couples, like, we're all so human too. Like I left and gone on I've left when this like, not left left, but like I went out of town, which is weird. You can't do this during the wedding season ever at all. And I left just to get my own head on straight because I'm not good for any of my cloud people, couples, if I'm not filling my cup either. So, you know, I think that like re reminding our leg vendors too, like, you gotta take care of you, man. Like take care of you. So I don't know if that answers your question, but

(43:09):

That was good. That was good. Yeah. That was excellent answer. That was sort of thing we're moving from the marketing doc. No, I, I just think like, honestly, with, with everything going on now, if this hasn't been, you know, I think the wake up call of just, we need to adapt our plans to this and not trying to figure out like, well, how can we adapt the plans to like what we want to do? Or how can we, I mean, I just, anybody like planning still, it's like, you need to, like, this needs to be a wake up call now. And if it wasn't before, and I do, I mean, I wasn't, I really wasn't for like all the openings back when, you know, when, and I know that a lot of people pushed for that, and I know that that was obviously what the industry wanted.

(43:51):

But you know, I, you know, I think that because of that, you know, we're in a lot of it, I think it would have been way easier to maintain this going or whatever it been to like open the flood gate and then close it again. And so that is hard, but I do think that and I guess I, I w the last thing I wanted to touch on today was, and I saw someone posts. I can't even remember one of the groups saying how, you know, well, let's wait until next year where we can have like a real wedding or we can do, you know, we can have whatever. And not saying that, you know, having, I know the wedding that we did yesterday, you know, was amazing, you know, it was a real wedding, you know, they're sitting there balling, you know, I know the one that we did last weekend, you know, eight family members, you know, it's all the emotions. And so I guess my final ask for all of you kind of going around, we'll be talking about that. And just making sure that, you know, couples realize that you can still have, you know, as memorable a days you want to have right now, and have it be as special as you want to be a shallow. I see you nodding. So let's go to you first. And, and we'll, we'll crack this off.

(44:58):

I keep going back to weddings, like 50 years ago, not even 50 years ago looked completely different than how they do now. And so it was getting married in the church, going down to the basement or somewhere else for cake and punch. And that was it. And you know, between then and now we've added the dancing, we've added everything else, which is great, but also point is to get married. So however you choose to do that, that is the true meaning of the day is the two of you coming together, get married and become like a couple officially together. And so that's kind of, that's my thought on it right now is that, like, I think that sometimes with the parties is you can lose focus on the actual meaning of the day. And this, this has allowed us to go back and focus more on that. And like the true, like, it's the two of you coming together with your families and your, your most supportive people there to support you, who truly love you and want to see let's make it happen and let's, let's make it amazing for you. So

(46:12):

Kelly, Kelly, that's Kelly, Kelly, let's let's talk about this and the positivity of, of either focusing on the couples and everything else right now.

(46:22):

Yeah, I think I mean, we do hundreds of weddings, you know, and we, when we look back and we try and call it, you know, Sally and Joe's wedding, the details kind of all blur. I think that's just kind of, you know, weddings are weddings. But it's always those wines, like, you know, a handful of weddings always stand out for a certain reason, whether it was like customizing dance party, whether they got really creative with, you know, their food menu or something like that. And I think even as a, you know, working weddings or as wedding guests like weddings, you know, and I think that this podcast, this will be memorable because of Kelly. I think this is really like, couple's time to be different, stand out and just create a memory for not only them, but their friends and family and do something different.

(47:07):

And also be like, remember, you know, Corona, we were stuck in our house for months upon months. We only, you know, we braved the grocery store. We did this, but remember how great it was to celebrate with, you know, Ashley and Adam, like, remember how great that was. I think now it's just the time to not only stand out and create a fond memory, but also like be there for your friends and family and give them a day of just light and excitement in this weird world we're living in. And so like to couples, I think really use this to your advantage and do something with it. You know, you're never going to be, hopefully we're never in this situation ever again, but really just use it and do something different, create a special memory, not only for yourselves, but that was close to you. Personalize it more. Yeah. You get to personalize it more. Yeah. Which is awesome.

(47:54):

Kelly, are you done with your earthquake over there?

(47:58):

I'm telling you I was really prepped for this. I had my, I had it set and ready to go. Like I was ready for this thing. And then I had to move into another room. Yeah, I'm ready to go back and forth. No, maybe for, even for our couples. I mean, I've, we've done so many elopements over the years and so many weddings over the years and the ones that I really remember are the ones I'm telling you read. I don't know. I might not be cut out for podcasts. I'm telling you, but I didn't get my coffee delivery from my sweet husband. Okay. So that, thank you. That was the best intro, like little things. It's about the little things and all of this, and try to remember that, like the little things are what make you a couple and it's not the party.

(48:46):

It's not the thing. And it's like, how can we incorporate those amazing moments of your, you know, our couple's lives into what it is like for my couple, they met at Starbucks and she's like, what have we got a wedding in Starbucks? I'm like, how weird and funky as that. But like the fact that they're first that they created these memories year after year of like going back to their same Starbucks, having the same cup of coffee every single year. And now we're thinking, Hey, this is kind of fun. Like that would be kind of cool. Like I think it's, it is remembering why you're doing it and remit and marrying and inland allowing yourself. And I think a lot of our couples are really allowing themselves to have those things that maybe they didn't think that they could have at their wedding because it didn't fall into the traditional box and saying like, okay, let's, let's do something fun. Let's do something funky. You know? And even for a lot of our couples, maybe they couldn't have their dog part of their ceremony. Cause maybe they're gonna get married in a church. Now they can get married on a beach and their dog can be a part of it. So, you know, trying to look at the silver lining and say, here's what we can do going into this next year.

(49:52):

Yeah. I think I agree with that. I think we need to focus on what we can do and not what we can't do. And I think that it's tough. Like I said, you know, we're all wedding professionals and you know, you want to have everyone have the biggest, you know, wedding and spend the most money and have the best stuff. And it's tough. Right. And I, you know, like, you know, obviously you want everyone to have a wedding video and have, you know, 10 hours of coverage and all this different stuff. And you're like, but you need to focus on what, what we can do and not, you know, limit. What's not going to be, you know I think I don't know. I think everyone's lost a lot of stuff this year and I think there's been a lot of changes, you know, across everything. And so, yeah, I think not being able to have, you know, 300 people at your wedding and in dancing and whatever I think is an okay compromise for everything that everyone has gone through, you know, both professionally and personally and, you know, so that would be kinda my, my last advice for that would just be you know, remember where we're living in and it stuff. So I lost my I lost my whole football league this year and my XFL.

(50:57):

Perfect. We have hockey now we have hockey.

(50:59):

I R I ordered my cracking hat. So it is, it is coming follow me, follow me on Twitter at crack marks. So I got, I got like, but no, I mean, it's tough. So yeah, I think, I think just looking at the positives any final thoughts, any final words, I really appreciate you guys all coming on today. I know it's, it's still a kind of a nebulous time and not really knowing what's happening, but I do think it's just important to keep having these conversations and, and focusing on positivity, which I think all of you guys did today. So I appreciate that. And, and some good ideas Kelly let's you seem to have something to say, so let's, let's start the final Roundup with you.

(51:35):

I always have something to say, right. I think just overall in life and wedding wise right now, I think just focusing on the positive and the silver lining is something that I challenged myself to do every day. And I think that, you know, focusing on what we can do and what we can't do is just going to be, you know, mentality of Corona, the sooner we kind of, you know, all those, you know, what we're supposed to do the sooner we'll get out of this, hopefully. But I mean, I feel for my couples, I tell them all the time, like, I feel for you, I know this isn't easy. Like wedding planning is enough as it is, but to add this as a whole nother, you know, layer of stress. And it's like, I feel bad for them. It's like, you know, as a girl, you dream of your wedding day, your entire life, and it's something you don't think about and having your vision.

(52:14):

And it's like sitting behind computers with your friends and family is not really what your dream come true. And so it's, it's a struggle. Like I feel for every one of my couples and it's, I'm struggling, you know, managing personal and business right now. Just kind of how do I be, you know, the best support when I feel like I'm going crazy, but finding the silver lining, just being hopeful and seeing the light of the tunnel is going to be, you know, a huge mind shift and yeah, that's, I don't know. I really don't have much to say read. That was good.

(52:41):

That was good though. That was a good, I shot a little bit about you.

(52:46):

Yeah. I think finding this silver lining is good. I think that just, you know, taking in everything that you can and just embrace it for what it is, you know, this, this is where we're at and things are always changing. I adore my couples, so I have really become friends with them and we're talking, you know, at least once a week, probably just trying to figure out what to do, coming up with different ideas. And I, my heart goes out to them. It's just, it's been such a rough year. It's been so challenging. It's been so just ups and downs and everything ever evolving. So you know, I, I'm happy that I've been able to get to know them more. But also it's hard. It's hard for everyone. It's hard for the vendors too. I mean, we just we've been pushed around and it just feels it.

(53:41):

I saw someone or did someone on this sake, emotional whiplash, it's just, it's back and forth and it's, you know, the tears coming out and it's just, it's hard to explain. It's just, it's strange, but also, you know, you can't get married, so that's the name of the game. So let's, let's make that happen and let's make it amazing. You can still have fun. You can still get 30 people together and have them support you, which is a decent number. It's not. So, you know, it's more than what phase three allows. So there are positives in this. It's just a matter of finding it and working with it and making it your own

(54:22):

Kelly, you get the big, last, final and words today to lead us off, leave us, you know, with, with your words of wisdom, whether we have

(54:32):

Yeah. You know, like, I mean, you guys all captured it really well. I mean, at the end of the day, like we're giving our couples like the options. I think that they have more options now, you know, then maybe they thought in the previous. So for us, you know, we put together an elopement package that, that we're offering our clients, or even non-clients, you know, to be able to have the beautiful ceremony with everything that they, you know, maybe they want with their 30 friends and, and making it, we're trying to just make it easy for them. I mean, just make it easy and seamless and like effortless. Cause at this point everything's been very effortful. Is that even a word? But so, but like just letting them enjoy at least one moment in time where they can go, come in, show up, look beautiful, take in the moment and not have to work anything.

(55:25):

That's what we're trying to do right now. Now not all of our clients are going to go for that, but you know what, there's quite a few people that are, and we're super excited to help them through that process. And then to continue to work through our 20, 21 clients, either postponed or new clients to, you know, hopefully look forward to the future of a normal wedding season. But knowing that like, we've at least gone through all of this. So now this isn't, if we have to do this again, at least we know how to navigate it at this point. So we're here for them.

(55:56):

Absolutely. Yes. And I will say that the little ceremony we did last week the bride afterward, she said, you know, this was so great. Like it really, I love this because I did not feel the stress of having to deal with all the other stuff. And it was you know, it was a venue where, you know, they postpone and then, but they were doing, you know, like you could use it, you know, for free or whatever. And, but she said, it was great. Like I got to hang out with my husband and we got to kind of do a little first look and then we walked down the aisle and she's like, man, this would have been way crazier. You know, if we have had to deal with all the other stuff. So there, there are several silver line needs. Right. And there are positives to look for.

(56:37):

So I do think, I thought that was great. And I said, there you go, you have the best day ever. And it was two hours and now you're done, you know, so anyway thank you all so much for coming on. And I really appreciate you guys this time, you know, early on the Sunday and, and hopefully this won't be outdated tomorrow when they come out and say, no, no weddings at all. But I do think, yeah, I think, you know, the weddings, the ceremonies are set. I think receptions, I think we're getting into trouble calling them dinners. I think we're getting into trouble calling them, you know, we're going to go across the street and do a gathering. I think we're getting into trouble with those things. So that would be my advice. And I think everyone seems to agree.

(57:16):

Yeah. I think that more trouble we make is that the longer we're going to be stuck in this world. So I think just pausing, putting ourselves in timeout is kind of what we need to do.

(57:26):

Perfect. Well, thank you guys again. And if you're listening, if you have a question for future episodes of the podcast, you can go to www.bestmadevideos.com/survey, And everything's organized by vendor type. You can leave questions and we can put together fun round tables like this one, but thank you guys again. Thanks Kelly for putting this together and good luck everyone navigating with all the, you know, I'm sure there's many more emails and phone calls to come, so

(57:50):

Yeah. Thank you, Reid.

Episode TBD - Catering Roundtable

(00:07):

Alright, we'll pass it around here and hopefully Navi doesn't get in an accident

(00:19):

Thank you guys so much all for coming today. And you know, taking the time, I know this is a, is a loaded question with a lot of, you know, a lot of issues around it. And I know that people that, you know, the one thing you can't get away from and the wedding is, is food and you know, people eating. So thank you guys all so much for taking the time. Why don't we start with a Reed, which is the only other Reed I've ever had on the podcast. Why don't you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about who you are and then we'll go around

(00:48):

Reed Haggerty. I'm the COO at Tuxedos & Tennis Shoes Catering Dsquared hospitality. We do all sorts of events, wedding corporate, and we also have a couple of venues you know, with everything that's been going on. There's been a lot of different things thrown our way. We're learning each and every day, learning something new. My name's Markelle and I'm a special events coordinator at Act 3 catering located in Tukwilla. I've been with the company for a little over three years now and I normally handle larger, special events and weddings.

(01:27):

Perfect. And Navi is running around doing deliveries today and crazy busy Navi. Why don't you introduce yourself and tell us who you are?

(01:37):

I'm Chef Navi, I'm the owner. So we've been in business for almost seven years, but I finally got a location.

(01:52):

Perfect. So just kind of a general check-in, first of all, maybe we'll start with Markelle. How's everything going? How are, how are the couples that you're working with right now? How are they managing everything and how are the weddings feeling? Just kind of a general check-in?

(02:06):

I'd say generally everyone's being pretty flexible and we're trying to be as flexible as possible as well. I mean, one nice thing about being a catering company is unlike some other vendors, like a photographer or a DJ, we can do multiple events per day. So it's easy for us to be flexible with date changes multiple date changes. So I've just been, trying to be as supportive and flexible as possible for all of our couples and give them as many options as possible for next year or the end of this year. But I mean, generally good. I think everybody understands that we're all in the same boat. So it's been, it's been tough with all the uncertainty, but I think it's going as best as it could.

(02:54):

Now, obviously you guys are in kind of an interesting situation. You have an event space too. Well, how are you guys, how just your couples feeling right now? How are the weddings going?

(03:04):

So we did last weekend, we did weddings. And so one of the things, what we have done is we've been really upfront with a couple of and the venues, you know, like we have a peep PP plan and we want to make sure that safety is our number one priority for everybody, right? The guests, our employees, myself, and, you know everybody that is involved all the other vendors. So that's how we've been taking it slowly and approaching in a positive way. I know a lot of brides are very stressed out because not only as a venue, but a lot of vendors cannot do last names cancellation due to a number of reasons. So, you know, we've been patient on the process and educating the client and also being, say humble, you know, that's one of the things really important during this difficult time.

(03:56):

Ray, what about you guys? How's everything going? And I know that you guys manage a of venues as well.

(04:01):

Yeah. You know, I mean, I think that the, both of you guys kind of summed everything up, but yeah, it's, it's, it's been, it's been interesting to say the least, I mean, we're, we're learning a lot. And I think the most important thing with, with our wedding couples and is, is just being understanding of the situation and really be able to have conversations with them. And you know, I find that being able to get on the phone and really have a conversation with the bride and the groom as the, the tough conversations are coming up postponing or cancelling their event it goes a long way and being able to have that conversation, because you can explain, Hey, this is what this means. This is what this means. And here's some options for you, and this is what can work for you.

(04:41):

You know, being the venue it is important that PPE is kind of at the top of our list and our staff safety and our guests safety is also extremely important. So we're doing our best. I mean, we're putting plans together and shifting those plans each and every day, we, you know, at the very beginning of all this, we started drawing out what are our, our plan would look like to keep, keep people safe. And that plan has probably changed 30 times since then, just based on all of the new guidelines that are coming out in each, each and every day.

(05:13):

Reed and I were talking a little bit before just getting recorded, how it's so hard to do this podcast some weeks, just because everything's changing so much, you know, that we, I like to feel like I had a bunch of episodes recorded, but sometimes, you know, things are changing so quick. And especially with this Reed, we'll start with you again. Cause I, I hate to leave the last person given the last Brenda, the question every time, what has been just, it changes for every vendor type for you guys as caterers, what has been the biggest struggle or challenge or hurdle to overcome, you know, when it relates to you know, COVID and safety and guests and all that,

(05:49):

Honestly, I mean, we kind of just touched on it. It's, it's really the ever changing landscape of what's going on. It's the fact that you can have something planned on

(05:58):

A Monday. And then the event is set for a Friday and by Friday the restrictions or the guidelines can adjust. And so you know, being able to really be able to walk through that with the client can be challenging when the new guidelines come out and it's something that you're going, okay, this, this needs to change. And then they ask you the question, how come it's changing? Well, it's changing because we're being told that that's the way it needs to change. I mean the other challenge, I think too, has been for our staff and quite honestly, everybody wants to wear a mask. They know that that's the best possible thing, but you know, when you're working in a kitchen chef, I know, you know, this you're sitting, you're in the kitchen with that mask on. It's hard and it's hot. And with the temperatures that are coming through.

(06:39):

So you know, going to events and having people wear a mask and we always want to be as presentable as possible or at events, but it's going to be more difficult when people have to wear masks to keep them from perspiring. And it's just it's so those are the kind of big, big challenges for us. I mean, we we've always practiced good hygiene in the kitchen. People always wash their hands and that kind of thing. So that's just like a reminder for our team. But the ever changing landscape has been the most difficult piece for us. So Markelle, I know that you you know, besides everything else you do, you've been answering a lot of phone calls right now from couples and managing a lot of that in line with the hurdles and everything. But I want to know, like what questions are people asking? You know, you guys, and I mean, obviously everybody, but I mean, what's, what's top of mind right now for people getting married and whether they most concerned about,

(07:27):

I would say they just want to know cause they come into this and they book us and they have this vision and everything changing. They're hearing that everything's changing, but there aren't really any clear cut guidelines or rules. They're mostly just saying, Hey, like, this is what I expected my wedding to be. What's different. What's going to change. Can I still do buffet? Can I still do plated? And that's easy for me to answer for those weddings coming up on August 8th, but it's so much harder when I've had those September, October weddings coming in and asking how everything's gonna change. And I don't want them to get their hopes up. And then, you know, three weeks from now, everything changes again. So that's been like the hardest thing for me is those questions of what looks different. Do I need to have a sneeze guard on my buffet?

(08:16):

Can my guests hold their plates? Can I have presets? I can tell you what it's going to be like in a week, but I can't tell you what it's going to be like in three weeks. So that's been definitely tough. And definitely the main question is just, what's different. What looks different? Can I still have the same vision that I had before? And just kind of coming up with answers for that. I would also say communicating with staff changes the ever changing landscape, cause I'll have one event one week and these are all the different procedures we have now. And then the next week I have to communicate totally different procedures because we learned something new or there's a new guideline or

(08:56):

So it's just kind of keeping up those new procedures and training and communicating with what we expect from our staff is also a huge hurdle

(09:05):

Be for you. What has been the biggest struggle for you guys working through this or not struggle, but hurdle hurdle to overcome.

(09:12):

So again, change right change is the biggest thing to adjust everything, you know, a week before. And then we have to present to the client. This is what we are doing. But then after that there's a change and it'd be like, Oh my God. Now there's a change. And just explain the fact that one event is changed three times the logistics, the setting, the setup, everything has changed. It is very stressful for both parties. I think we have to, as a caterer, there's so much logistics involved, right? So you have to be on point of the day off and making sure the timing and everything works and bringing all the equipment and with the guidelines. Now the sneeze guard, like Raquel said, you know, and you know, a lot of stuff that we didn't originally plan last year, 2019, the book, their wedding, we did not plan all this stuff, right.

(10:11):

So nobody even has considered of, wow, it's going to be. So those are the changes that, you know, clients ox is like, Hey, what's going to be the change. What we're reading is coming up next week, but it's not something, a concrete answer that we can give to a client because every day, every hour something is changing, Oh, I'll go for it. Sorry, just one other thing I thought of, at least for us. So we work in Pierce County, King County and Snohomish counties, but it's just another hurdle that we have to overcome is that each one of those counties has their own guidelines and health department. And I think it's always been easy because we can just go straight to the health department. They have their guidelines, we know exactly what we should be doing health and safety wise, but now it's like each one of those is different. Each one is more vague or more detailed. And so it's hard to kind of navigate that with the venues because one venue is allowing cocktail hour and dancing and one venues like, Oh no, you can't do any of that. So that's also been a huge hurdle is kind of figuring out what County is doing, what, what venue is doing, what, so that's also just something I wanted to add.

(11:25):

Yeah. And I guess my biggest question for one of the big questions for you guys is you know, we're going to be talking about some things today, you know buffets and, you know, past apps and all these different things. I mean, is this is it just changing so much? So like you said, we're, we might be good for a week or two, and then we don't really know. I mean, Mark LIC, you nodding your head. Is that how quickly that you guys are finding all these new regulations and everything?

(11:52):

For sure. I would say

(11:54):

It's honestly weekly. So we have a team meeting every Tuesday can be upwards of like three to four hours and we come up with a great plan and a great procedure and new protocol. And then by next Monday it's all changed and we just have to do it all over again on Tuesday. So it's been really hard to just plan ahead for the future.

(12:17):

Some of the biggest safety things that you guys are working through, that the average person, you know, planning the wedding might not be concerned about that has, you know, maybe kept you up at night and neither would ever Reed maybe any, any safety things that I might not be thinking about the average person that's not a, you know, running large scale catering like you guys are.

(12:38):

No. I mean, I think a bar service and consumption is something that is a challenge because we all know after one or two drinks social distancing is not possible and or it is possible, but it's, it's hard and it's hard to police that, and you don't want to be the police. You don't want to be the person who's going in and saying, you can't move closer to that person. And so where do you draw the line and, and how do you go about doing that? Especially with, with venues and our venues. It makes it more difficult because we, we are a little bit more in charge of making sure that that, that, that is happening. So all of a sudden you don't want to get people too far, but you also want them to enjoy themselves. They're at a wedding there they're there, they're there to have a great time.

(13:25):

So how do you kind of straddle that line of taking care of people and making sure that they are still having a great experience, but also still following the rules. And you know, we're sending out a kind of a one sheet to our, to any booked weddings that basically says, you know, this is what you're committing to by being a part of, or having this event. And we've written it into our contracts that we basically need to be available, or we need to be following the guidelines set forth by the governor and for the phases that we're in. And you know, contracts are one thing, but it's, that's a client who's signing that contract. It's not always their guests. So you know, I, when I heard last was it last week, I believe that, you know, walk up bars were not appropriate.

(14:10):

We're not allowed anymore. I actually got a little sigh of relief from that, that we could control consumption so much more by not just having people continuously be able to come up to a bar. And the way we're handling that, as you know, with these events, there's so much smaller than what we're used to. We're doing like more of a tableside service. We're taking orders for drinks. And I think that does help us slow things down a little bit. But it certainly is something that we are thinking about each and every day and how we can control that

(14:38):

Is that, and I know that, I mean, I'm, I'm game to talk about all this stuff right now, even though it's catering, is that a new regulation now? I didn't even, that's obviously outside of what I was known about.

(14:49):

Yeah. I think as of last week they

(14:52):

Said that you can't have a far walk up, walk up bar service.

(14:56):

Gotcha. Navi, what about you, whether what's the safety concern that people are that you you've been stressed from the ballot to make sure to keep in, you know, your customer safe, that people haven't necessarily thought about?

(15:07):

So, you know, I have a 50 to 50, so I have people, you know, who completely is against wearing mask, you know, completely put an argument about, well, this is not a mandate. It's not a, you know, a bill that was went through the Senate, right. It's the governors, you know, and, and there's that kind of people when you deal with it and you have to explain them, like it's not, it's safety, it's safety issue is the safety for everybody. And I think, you know, most of the guests are already, you know, if you think about it in a wedding, a lot of people are already irritated and they have been quarantined and already like stressed out because they cannot fully enjoy what a wedding should be. Wedding is totally a party. Everybody is, you know, having a great time, but, you know, and put more restriction on top of them.

(16:03):

Top of that, it's, it's like policing, but to a point where people are a little bit irritated too, right. And there's some people who are really cautious about it and you know, they do those things and they listen and they want to make sure that you know, we are all practicing the social distancing and, you know, doing all the requirement stuff. But as far as there's a 50 50 mix of people who wants to do it and participate, it's like, they're all for it. But there is a group of people where you meet them and you tell them about your PD plan and what we expect from what needs to be done. Well, they say, you know, even some venues, they don't impose like you are required to wear a mask because you know, people are telling me under the HIPAA law, you can ask them, why are you not wearing masks? So that's another issue then on the fine print, if you look at the governors, you know no MAs no service on the bottom. It says, you cannot physically ask the person, why are you not wearing masks? So a lot of people take that and, you know, capitalize on it. Right?

(17:16):

Yeah. It's tough. No, I, I know that I was talking with that. We've been trying to book some of our associates shooters to work with me for dates this summer. And, you know, they've had to ask me you know, do you, do you think things are going to be, you know, are we going to be following the guidelines or we're going to be following the rules? And, you know, it's, it's tough because you, you know, we get these plans in place and you get ideas from people. And it's tough because you don't, you hope that they're gonna, you know, follow along. Marco, what about you? What is, what is the something that's kept you up that may, most people might not be worried about?

(17:49):

So we

(17:50):

Walked through like a timeline of events and kind of figured out like how we need to change any different procedures. And one, that was something that I think is overlooked is something like water service. So normally we'll preset, the tables love water out, and then we'll come around and we'll grab the glass and we'll fill it. But now we can't really do that. If you grab the glass, fill it, and then you grab the next person's last, you're just transferring any type of germs or contamination to the next glass. So kind of our solution to that was just doing like water at the tables. So then since it's the same household, they can pour their own waters and then we'll just kind of switch those crafts out. So it was just like one small thing that we kind of came up with that we were like, Oh yeah, like water service. That's actually a small detail, but definitely something easy to miss. Or like once you get to the event, you'd be like, Oh, wait, this is kind of weird. What are we doing now? So that was one thing that we thought was just could easily be overlooked.

(18:52):

Well, even though they were I've know, I've seen people talking about, you know, setting the tables right. And having things set. I mean, is that something you guys are working through to, to this like gotta be totally bare or pretty bare?

(19:03):

Yeah. So I guess that's just one of those guidelines that we're not exactly clear on yet. As far as I can tell from the restaurant guidelines, it doesn't say anything specific to having the table set. So at this time we're still planning on setting the tables until we hear otherwise. But again, it'll just depend on if something else comes up or if a venue requires that we don't do it, or, you know, a client being worried about it, all that kind of stuff. Do you have any thoughts on that? I mean, we're, we're in the same boat. It's not a clear answer on what that restriction is, but we had one that one guests or one client that wanted to make sure that the tables were set for, you know, not weird and bare and empty. So we kind of made an agreement that they also wanted to have, make sure that they're safe with the table settings and that somebody wasn't going up on the table or something like that.

(20:07):

So what we decided, what we agreed to was, you know, the benefit of having our own venue, we have our own China flatware, glassware. We're going to set the table for them so that everything is out. And then what we'll do is just walk around and pick up the flat we're off the table and then use roll-ups and put place a roll up on the table for them. So it's a little bit more secure. And I thought that was a really good way to kind of have a middle ground. It's not that challenging for us. We're going to set the table, normal circumstance going around and picking up forks, knives, and spoons. Is it something that's going to add, like a bunch of labor or anything like that? It's, we're just making sure that they can still have as much of a normal wedding as they possibly can. Are you still doing water service?

(20:49):

We are still doing, we are still doing a water service. And so kinda similar to you in that way that like, you know, there's, it is a table and they are a family. So they, the reason they're sitting at a table together is because they have been sharing germs. Right. So you're allowed to kind of have it in that way. But we're also, you know, before people are sitting down, we're putting you know, one of our clients had a, like a coaster. And so they're putting the coaster on top of the water glass. So it's not people aren't touching the top of the glass before service and all of our staff, you know, one interesting piece with, with all the touching of everything that we're talking about is all of our staff is wearing gloves on the floor now. And that has been something that in years past has been an absolute, no, go for us. So lots of, lots of gloves. Yeah. That's certainly all this. And certainly as a cost too, right. In terms of what we just did, our makeup, our, this round table, and then talking about, you know, just them trying to outfit themselves with PPE to do either bridal makeup. But I mean, you guys must be, there must be a tremendous added cost. Right. Is that, is that something you guys are eating right now, or are you thinking about having to pass it onto the client? I mean, how is that working Markelle?

(22:04):

It just, it's been hard. I would say we're not really charging too much extra for the client. We already kind of have everything in house, so it's not a huge, additional expense for us. Okay. I can't even really think of any situations right now where we're adding any additional costs. But it might be something that kind of happens in the future closer to

(22:32):

September, October. Yeah. But I mean, I think that that's fair, you know, for clients, even though they're standards, right. That they might be getting you know, extra stuff handled for them. You know what I mean, Reed whether or not you guys it's kind of a case by case basis, to be honest with you. I mean, it depends on the conversation with the client and where they're at. If they're like, we don't want to supply hand sanitizer and we don't want to have masks available for our guests if they don't show up in a mask, but we know that they need to have them, we can add it in. And so we're kind of offering it more as a service, as opposed to a like this is required for our venues. There is a little fee that goes into additional needs for like hand sanitizer, you know, just because it is a venue, you need to have hand sanitizer at the front door and at the back door and at the beginning of the Bay and at the end of the Bay, there's all these little guides like that, that really the venue is responsible for.

(23:27):

But if we're off site, it does, it does change things. And it's like I said, more of a service that we're offering. I have you guys in Navi, we'll start with you on this one. Have you guys been trying to guide your couples maybe to not do a buffet or do things a certain way or, or family style? I mean, is, are, are there

(23:46):

Things that you can kind of guide people to do that there may be a little bit more that you guys can perceive as a little bit

(23:54):

Go for it?

(23:56):

So feminist style is out of the window right now we can do a family style, right? So buffet is what I have done, you know, you know, under my PP plan is I build you know, the plexi glass barrier on a six foot tables. So I have like six of those. So we still do buffet. The guests doesn't get to contact any plates or silverware. We don't do setup full setup. We do roll-ups and roll-ups are already in a buffet station behind the professor. The guest doesn't have access to that and plates up behind. So what do we do is basically we put the plexiglass that was all size and custom built for the buffet table and the guests walks and they can still see through the food presentation and everything. And they tell us, and we dish it out and we enter the line, you get the, you know, we have few stations, we can break in a few station style.

(24:50):

And that way they can, you know, all is everybody's not plugged up in one place and also coordinating things with the DJ of releasing table. But we do have a fee that we charge because we have to, you know, if everything was normal, we didn't have to go and build this custom extra equipment that we have now to the safety of everybody, you know? So we do charge a fee small fee for every wedding that we do. We don't do water service on the table. You know, we don't do that and be, you know, strictly bottled waters, you know clients can get bottled waters, but like, we don't do water because I think on the fine print, if you read the, the new mandate that came in, you know, tables, restriction, water is all, these are restricted. So I don't know, like, you know what are we going to get away with?

(25:44):

Like the, I don't know, right. That's, everybody's confused on what we can do and we can not do. Right. So I think everybody's trying to figure out things that we can, the do's and don'ts do you guys do feel like it's you trying to take the best guesses that you can and really Markelle is nodding. Do you really feel like that? It's you trying to interpret it, but yet still, cause this has gone across the board, right? For every, you know, every industry and every vendor type. I mean, they weren't even thinking, I remember one of that, I was on some wedding network call, like nationwide and someone was saying in some state that the governor there hadn't even considered like weddings in live events and even how that would like, Oh, you know, let alone like catering and doing like roll up, you know, with now. I mean, you know, it, it gets some smaller details. So what, what do you think about that?

(26:37):

I completely agree. I mean, it's just so confusing and it's all just made up to interpretation.

(26:45):

So everybody's different. Like you just listened to the three of us, talk about how we're handling it. And I mean, we all have like the same kind of like strand of what we're doing, but I mean, it's all just interpreted differently. Like how taxi doesn't tennis shoes is changing their preset so that we have the pictures and then what we're doing, roll-ups, I'm kind of sticking with what we've usually done, just modified and then shut nappies, just like, Nope, bare tables. So it's just hard because all of those are different options, but none of them are right. And there's nobody out there to say this person's right. And this person's wrong, change it. So it's all just totally up to interpretation. I've been kind of bouncing off venues and mostly, I mean, I know that they're in the same boat as me and they technically, also don't know what they're doing, but we want to make sure that we're making the venues happy and we're following their guidelines as well as kind of communicating with our guidelines are, and kind of like working as a team that way. But again, everybody's different and nobody's wrong and nobody's right. So it's definitely difficult

(27:54):

Reed. Would you, would you say that, what, what would be a question or a couple of questions that, you know, someone that's working through this planning of the wedding right now that they should be asking their caterer things that they should be making sure like are being considered things that, you know, even, even if you guys might have different, you know, answers to them, you know, all trying to be saved, but what are some things they should be worried about?

(28:18):

I think certainly asking about what you know, how they're handling things. I mean, you know, like we were just talking about things, everybody handles them a little bit differently. So you may having that question of, Hey, how are you handling dance floors? How are you handling cocktail hours? How are you handling the bride and groom? If there's a ceremony on site, do they have to wear a mask or can they take their mask off? I have seen that in a lot of different places. Is that a requirement that the bride and groom need to be wearing a mask while they're standing up and getting married? Certainly just trying to figure out how people are interpreting some of these challenges that we're going through because we're all interpreting this differently. And there is no right or wrong way. And so there's probably a style that's going to feel a little bit better for you. You know, there's some people who may feel that strongly that everything needs to be clean, bare tables. We don't want anything touched by anybody. We want to be, keep it as tight and tidy as we can. We just want to get married. And then there's some people who might be a little bit more relaxed about it and you need to find the right cater and right venue that are going to kind of allow for your style as you're working your way through it.

(29:25):

Now, what do you think are some questions that people should be asking and considering and thinking about right now?

(29:30):

So I think, you know, most of them should probably, especially, they should probably do some research on like what they want to exactly do. Right.

(29:42):

It was really, it was to the point where, you know, what your vision is, how you want to do things and how you want to think of the safety of your guests and your families. And people have to realize weddings is mostly good chunk of families together, right? So that's the big priority of making sure that the safety is there. So I think the vision of what did they extent they want to do on set up on dance floor and social distancing, maintaining all the, you know, and thinking from all the expects and making sure that, you know we're still going to have a fun ready.

(30:21):

Are there certain things that you guys are worried about in terms of, you know arriving, setting up things like that, you know, besides, you know, cause obviously it starts, you know, from the very beginning with, you know, getting the products there, getting the stuff out, you know, we're, some of you guys might have, you know, venues, it might be, you know, stuff might be there easier or not. Is that, are there other concerns that you guys are thinking about that way Reed? So you kind of know

(30:47):

The one thing is just making sure that our vehicles are staying sanitized because the vehicles are one area that that multiple people obviously use. So I don't want to necessarily say it's a concern, but it's like a very heightened thing for us. Because if you even just three people driving in one vehicle, you have to make sure that each and every day that are each and every time it's driven that then it's getting a very good clean. And, and quite honestly, we only have one person who's been driving our vehicles right now. So that is a, that is a benefit to us. But when things start to ramp up a little bit more, that will be one of those things that is at the very top of our checklist because it's, it's one of those kind of common touch places. And we want to make sure that our staff, like I said is safe.

(31:35):

Yeah. We have just a really small allotment last week. And it was just like the bride and groom and then her, her kids. And they had asked me the day before, Oh, do you think that you guys could drive someone could drive the bride, you know, from where she's getting ready to the, and I was like I really don't think you guys, you know, I don't, I don't think we want to be doing that. You know what I mean? Did, it's tough because you know, things that maybe we used to get, you know, take take for granted, you know, even a couple of months ago now you're like, you know, like you said, you even just have one person drive in there, wiping it down. And I know even like I've taken my car into the shop to have it worked on, and you're like, I wonder how clean, you know, it, it permeates through kind of everything, Markelle, other other concerns in terms of, you know, setting up, breaking down and things like that, that you guys are focusing on.

(32:21):

One thing that we initially didn't think about was staging areas. So I mean, that varies by venue. So you'll have one venue where the staging areas like Austin, industrial kitchen, super easy for my staff to social distance and kind of work on their own tasks in their own corners. But then have some of those venues

(32:40):

Where the staging area is literally like a storage closet and it's only six feet wide. So that was something that we kind of started thinking about, especially for some of our main venues. So like the ones where we know exactly how big the kitchen is kind of prepping earlier and bringing like a popup tent. So we can kind of have like two, three different workstations. And like a lot of times in the summer we're training new staff. So something to think about is like a new training staff is shadowing somebody. They can't actually like shadow them from that close. So it's kind of more of that verbal communication kind of giving each person their own tasks. So one person setting the table while one person is setting the buffet rather than like two people doing that same task at the same time.

(33:25):

Now it'd be whether about you in terms of set of that breakdown, moving in, moving out and things like that. I was trying to meet you there.

(33:34):

What I've been doing is you know, our team, you know, we split in two, so there's a team that goes and does the staging up and they go away. And I co I come with my set of team that does the execution part. So I think works really well. They come in and do all that stuff. Restage, I have time. And like L said, I was laughing when she was talking about some venues, you have a full commercial kitchen and you have a six foot closet and some benches, right? So it is difficult. And it's challenging. Like, you know, you'd have to do a pub tan, you'd have to find a way. And that's one of the things very important to do a site visits and stuff, walk in a new venue, right. To make sure that your execution is on point and you're not scrambling through, you know, when you go to a venue and also asking the venue, what's their PB plan.

(34:26):

And some venues are very, very strict. Again, it's again, when Markelle was saying about the count, is it all depends on those, right? The different counties that we service and different health departments have different guidelines. And then based on that different counties, the different venues have different things in place. So it's all, you know, for a cater to do an event and you train your staff, we're going to go and do an event, Snohomish or depths. You know, they're the guidelines a little bit, you know, people are not, the dead venue is not strict, or the health department is not that much, but when you go to King County different, when you go to PS has been different and most important thing is adjusting to all of those and training your staff. And nobody likes change, right? Every time people go to different places or you have constantly trading as the patient and doing this business and changing and adapting to the change.

(35:29):

I know you've been here. You guys have all, I think that was good through a dead spot. I know you guys have all obviously you're established and worked through a lot of different and things. Is there a lot more legwork that you guys are having to do either with venues that you guys know about in terms of coordinating things, or like you said, if there's a new venue that you're not working out, what kind of other pre prep that way that people might not be thinking about? Are you guys having to do, like you said, in terms of having staging areas or like ability to load in, or do you need separate space to load in or times or everything like that, Mark, how do you want to touch on that?

(36:05):

[Inaudible]

(36:06):

So one thing that I've been running into is we kind of have, like, I'd say like four main venues that have been very communicative the entire time during this entire process. Kind of with their guidelines or protocols, everything like that. But the issue that we're running into is the weddings that are kind of holding out for October or September aren't at those venues. So we're kind of having to reach out, kind of get like a better established protocol from all these other different venues. So what I've kind of done is I created just like a quick questionnaire of like, what is their plan? How are they handling this? Like, are you doing cocktail hour? Do they have to be other table for cocktail? Or like, how are you handling it? Even if we already have a way that we're handling it, I want to see like what their plan is. And then kind of like either compromise or say like, this is what we're following. This is what we're doing. And this is why I'm, so I've been kind of reaching out to them for seeing kind of how they're feeling, get kind of a temperature for like their ideas and then kind of compromising from there. And then I feel like I had something else to say, but they might've forgotten it

(37:17):

Because like he said, it's so even how you said that we're, you know, you guys have a plan, right. And then the venue might have a totally different plan. Right. And so then it's trying to kind of marry those two together. Right. Where, you know, I can kind of go, you know, as like a videographer, we're pretty, it's just like, you know, whatever. Right. We kind of do what we're told me. You guys might have like protocol that you're trying to follow. Right. Is it, is it not like hard balancing that, but has it been really worked through trying to kind of balance those, those wants on both sides?

(37:45):

Yeah. So for example, like cocktail hour, so we, our interpretation of cocktail hour is like, we can't serve food unless the guest is seated at like their guests table, like a reception style, like you would at a restaurant, like our interpretation is that you can't be standing on a patio holding a glass of wine and grab a tray past appetizer. But some of our venues are like, that's totally fine. So then they tell the client that's totally fine. And then the client comes to us and we're like, Nope, we're not going to do that. So it just kind of creates this like misunderstanding kind of makes us look like the bad guy, but so it's kind of trying to head that off and making sure that we're both telling the client the same thing.

(38:30):

Yeah. That would be my fault. Right. We'd be like, pass appetizers, Reed the, I saw you kind of nodding. Is that, I mean, is that a thing right now? Or are we doing that?

(38:39):

I mean, I, I agree with what Markelle said and we are actively pushing people away from Trey past advertisers. We have done our best to craft up some interesting trades and some interesting vessels for when the time is. Right. but yeah, tripods, appetizers are a tough, tough thing to do right now, especially you're supposed to have a mask when you're standing up when you're not sitting at a table. So all of a sudden if you're standing up and eating and it's so much easier when you're standing up and eating to be within that six feet barrier. So all of a sudden you're eating and you're within six feet. And so, you know, I think kind of going back to the venue piece, that venue question, along with that, it's just reaching out and having those conversations ahead of time, like Marco said, and making sure that we are on the same page.

(39:23):

And so that when we are working with the client, we don't, we don't want to be the bad guy. We don't want to tell anybody. No, I think that's our philosophy. We never want to say no. We always want to take care of people and we always want to get them set up as best as possible. And so instead of saying, no, we want to give them options. If you want to have that cocktail hour, great. Let's do a, you know, a place to appetizer where you pick it up and go sit at your seat, something a little bit different like that. It's just, I was laughing because it's funny just these conversations that we're all having, or they're all the same conversations and we're all having them with different venues and our different clients. And, and it's, it's really great to hear that it's not just us, that's going through all this stuff

(40:01):

And I'll, I'll get to you next Navi. I know it's been eh, I do think it's been nice at least doing these round tables and feeling like even if not everybody has the same answers or whatever that everyone is, you know, asking the same questions. Right. And I do think that it proves that we all really care, right. That you guys all really care about. You know, even if you're doing things one way or another, that it's, you're wanting to do the best that you can for everyone. Now, I saw you kind of laughing what, whether you what was your thoughts on kind of the past apps and everything else and everything going on, and then meet yourself,

(40:34):

I'm in the same boat with, you know, Markelle and Reed like, you know I I'm completely against that. Like I'm like, no, we don't want to do that. Because that, and then it was just doing that then nothing is in effect of what you want trying to put the mandates, you know? So once you start breaking into mandates, you know, it creates the whole of pocket where everything is able to bend the rules, you know? So again, sinking between the venue and your standard and venue standing in the guideline is the number one priority of the venue. Sometimes they'll, Oh, we don't worry about anything. Let's do whatever they want. And the client comes to us to us. And we're like, no, no, you can't, we're not going to be able to do that. And it puts us again, it makes us look bad that we are putting the restriction, not as a whole industry. We are putting a restriction, I think, sinking with the venue prior to, you know, and having a plan set together, I think will be really, it's a good plan to do. And so

(41:34):

We are running into the same problem that everybody, and I'm glad to hear, like Reed said that Mark Ellis said the same thing that I was running. I was like, maybe I'm the only person running into this. And that makes me feel better. You know, that everybody is having those challenges.

(41:52):

Yeah. One thing I want to ask is either in terms of trying to find good, good news from all of this, have you guys, you know, being forced to go back, you know, look at regulations, looking at everything, you know, look at your procedures. Are there, do you feel like there's benefits just longterm besides just, you know, obviously passing government regulations would just say like, Hey, I really feel like we've really gotten better about doing something. Or do you feel like there's positive change that you guys have brought about because of having to go back and reflect on all this stuff, Reed to you. I see you deep thought. Do you want to touch on that?

(42:28):

Yeah, I think what it's, I mean, I don't know about necessarily out events. But what it has done is it's given us the opportunity to go back and look at a lot of our standard operating procedure procedures and really kind of either confirm that we're doing them right. Or update them to where they need to be. I mean, as caters and I'm sure you know, anybody in the wedding industry we are going all the time. We are moving all the time and you know, having these last couple of months where we're not moving around quite as much and we do still have some bodies that are working with us. We're able to really look back and say, okay, is this, is this the way we want to be doing this? Or is this something we want to change going forward? And I can't give you any specific, anything specific on that, but there's plenty of stuff that within our organization we said, Oh, you know what, let's, let's tweak this a little bit and let's make this, that new standard when we come out of, and back into the true full service events where, you know, not all the restrictions are there.

(43:26):

And our team has been really grateful for that because I think there's, there's times when we're like, Oh, we really want to get this done. We really want to get this done, but it's important, but it's not important enough to take over on a bench. Right. So they're seeing our, our team is seeing that. And I think that another thing is it's really brought our you know, culinary warehouse and sales teams kind of closer together. They've really been able to work together to create these new systems that really work for everybody. They're not a system that was created because this is the way it's supposed to be. It's a consistent that's created because, Hey, this is what makes sense for each department. So I think that's the biggest silver lining. Is that the ability to reflect on what it is that we're doing?

(44:06):

Yeah. I just know that it seems to me that there's been a lot more I've had a lot more emails, right. With a lot of the weddings that we're doing right now, just with, you know, we're doing a lot of like live streaming and questions and what's this, and how's this work and whatever. And you know, not that we weren't accessible to clients before, but I do feel like, I at least feel like I'm going in a lot better prepared. Now having talked with people just a lot more than maybe you would just of say, Oh, it's like, we don't, we're good. Like we don't, you know, you kind of take things for granted, right. Where you're like, Hey, I've done this before. Like we know what's going to happen. We're now it's like every single detail we're talking about a lot more. And I mean, I just personally speaking, I just feel like I'm walking in a little bit more prepared right now, Markelle. What, what good things have come from this positive notes?

(44:52):

Kind of similar to Reed. We were going literally the beginning of March going back through all of our SOP and coming up with new processes and procedures, we had actually just hired a new operations manager, like two weeks before this all happened. So it's kind of in the ironic way, kind of like a nice fresh start for him to kind of come from scratch since we're not like crazy busy in a wedding season, he can kind of come in like from zero and just kind of redo everything. So it's kind of like a blessing in disguise. I mean, I'd much rather be doing the nitty gritty wedding season, but it's kind of given him more room to kind of see in a slower process, like how we do our party files and how we communicate with our staff and how we organize the warehouse.

(45:42):

So I think that's been good in that sense to kind of give him like a fresh start. But I mean, it's also, I think kind of helped with creativity on our team's end. My other, my coworker, my other wedding coordinator partner she's kind of taken over like our marketing and we've been more marketing towards corporate options and coming up with, we have like ready meals and different box lunch options, stuff like that. So we kind of have a more brainstorming creative sessions than we normally do because we just have to create what people need. So it's been kind of nice to be more creative and not just go through. These are the menus we do every day. Kind of coming up with new ideas and what people are looking for

(46:28):

Navi whether about you where what's the improvements have come from all this.

(46:35):

Definitely a lot of training. I think that was really one of the things is we don't catch this slow moment during this busy summer wedding time. Right. So I think what has taken is, you know, going back again, but just a generally stop training, you know, putting all the standards you know, Markelle and Reed are both running business. They've been syllabus for a long time and I was, I'm just new coming in as a, you know, establishment. And so there was also a lot of loose ends to be tied up. So take this time as an advantage and, you know, to a good work and putting all the time, all the loose ends and making sure that our marketing team is geared up, you know, the styles, shoes, and pictures and whatever we wanted to do. I think this time was a great time to market that out and, you know, and get ready to the whole year.

(47:40):

Last question, before we go to give people, I, I could take away idea from each of you guys. I mean, hopefully this will work and won't be this answer of you guys saying the same thing or whatever, but like, you know, I don't know, like you said, if it's the box lunches, if it's you know, doing, like you said, creative past apps, or the later time, I just, I want to get people listening kind of you know, some good idea that they could think about like, Oh yeah, that would be, that's something we could think about doing or incorporating part of that idea. Markelle. I see you smiling. So maybe you have at least well, let's, let's see what you got it. And we'll we'll go from there.

(48:17):

I mean, I'm trying to look through all of my notes. I know one question that you had asked earlier, or in kind of before we started, this was talking about busing. So we were kind of going through that because, I mean, normally we do a normal busing service where you kind of go over their shoulder, grab the plate, grab the fork and knife. And I kinda was talking to my mom. I'm like, I wouldn't be comfortable doing that. So I don't feel like our staff is going to be comfortable doing that. So we kind of brainstorm some ideas for that. And one thing, or we came up with two kind of ideas. I'm still not sure which way we're to kind of lean, or it might just depend on the situation. But since the tables are smaller, there's only five people.

(48:58):

Then we were thinking we could either stand up kind of a more empty section of the table, have everyone passed their plates to us rather than kind of getting in their space, getting within that six feet and grabbing it from them, kind of passing it to one spot or walking around and kind of with like one bus tub. And just saying like, Hey, please place your plate in this part of the bus tub and your silverware in this part. Which I mean is not ideal visually for what we normally what's our standard, our standard is usually amazing customer service and, you know kind of that really nice restaurant field, but I think everyone's a little bit more relaxed and flexible that they would understand that that's just kinda how we need to do it in order to be a little bit more safe. So I guess that's one idea that we kind of have been brainstorming.

(49:46):

No, I think that's good. I know. No, I think that's good. It is so funny. We had a shoot yesterday and we were outside and, you know, we were masked and everything and then you know, shooting in a distance and you know, they would take their mask off, you know, to do the interview, but I had to go up and adjust something and I, you know, I had my mascot in it and, you know, cause either it's not used to getting them that much close to people right now at all. Right. We're not used to it. And I said something funny and you know, she's laughing. And I just like, felt like drops on like my hand. And I was just like, Oh, this is like, this is how it starts. Right. You know? Cause we're so used to, like you said, busty and like something that you've taken for granted that every restaurant right. That you would ever go to is, Oh, just reach in and get, you know, or pass the food out or whatever. So that's a good one. Reed. What about you take away from, from this whole experience?

(50:38):

Well, you know, I think everybody is handling this differently and there's a different comfort level from, from a guest perspective across the board and this isn't necessarily related to food, but certainly to weddings, I've seen a couple of places where people are putting out like wristbands, a certain color of wristband that kind of talks about the comfort level that the guest has so that other people at the wedding know what that comfort level is. There may be some people who are, you know, if you want to get a little bit closer and have a conversation with me, that's okay, but I'm going to keep my mask on. And maybe people who are like, Hey, yeah, give me an elbow. I'm good with that. And setting up, you know, three different colors, like a red, a yellow and a green, so that, you know, greens like, Hey, I'm comfortable. I'm good. Is like, I'm cautious. And Red's like, I really need you to stay as far away from me as possible. And I I've heard that work quite a few times. And I think it's important because like, like I said, everybody is handling this thing differently and feels differently about how they're how they're interacting with people at an event. So a wristband or maybe a fund pocket square or something along those lines to kind of signify how you're feeling,

(51:44):

Be a star. I would be a flashing red eye,

(51:48):

Me too

(51:51):

Just a really small barbecue on Friday outside, you know, everything and we're walking, you know, and still, Hey, give me a handshake or whatever. Like people I'm walking by and I'm like, guys, like, this is you come on. Like, I'm not a handshaker anyway. Especially right now. That's a good, okay. And then not be for you take away from all this I'm yeah. I was trying to do it.

(52:17):

You know, I think the most important thing for everybody, you know declined for the guests, guests, and client and vendors and everybody's involved. I think it's important to be patient during this time. I think that's one of the things people run into is that they are very anxious and some people are really scared about this. And some people are coming to events only because, because of how we are staging. And I think, you know, the more we communicate and more we showcase, how are we going to be providing safety? It's going to happen. It's going to really take, take the industry to the next level.

(52:57):

That's good. That's good. Well, thank you guys so much for making the time. I know this was tough and now he's on the go and it took us, you know, two and a half weeks to figure this out. So I really appreciate it. I know you guys are so busy kind of, you know, just feeling questions and concerns from everybody and working on everything. So I really appreciate that if everyone wants to give a final thought or a, you know, tell us a little bit, you know, before we go, I we'll put everyone's information and everything. Markelle, let's start with you and go around just any last

(53:26):

Words, any last thoughts?

(53:29):

I would just say my final words is to vendors as well as clients. Like, just remember that everybody's always on the same team. Just because we tell you that you like you can't do something, it's not because we want to tell you that you can't do something. We just want to make the event safe and we want to make the event as efficient as possible. So just remembering that as vendors, we're always here to be supportive, come up with different ideas, different solutions in order to make the event as fast as we can. And if we can't make that vision, then let's be flexible and let's postpone, let's do a different dates that we can actually make your vision happen. So just remembering that we're all on the same team and we all want what the, what the couple wants. We want them to have a great day. And that's kind of like the end game for all of us.

(54:17):

It's a good Reed. What about you? Yeah, I'm going to echo that. I completely agree. And I think the important thing for, for wedding clients is just to remember that they are, you know, you're planning a wedding during a pandemic. And so things are different. They're not what you expected them to be when you first, either first signed up or even if you were somebody who decided to get married during the pandemic, it's going to be different than the experience that you've had before. And so patience and kindness and you know, being flexible, it's going to go a long way and that's, what's going to make your event really awesome at the end of the day. Navi, last words, take us home. I think everybody hit on the really good points. I think the most important from, from me is being flexible and adapting to the new changes. If people can be flexible, I think events will be still as fun as it used to be. And still people will be having a party. So that's what my word has. The last word. Perfect.

(55:16):

I hope everyone has a good time. Now we didn't crash. So that's a, that's a positive

(55:22):

So much again. I really appreciate you guys. I know everyone's really busy and you guys more than probably most vendor types just have so much that you guys are working through us. I really appreciate you guys sharing your expertise today. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks for having us.

Episode 7 - Makeup Artist Roundtable

(00:00:07):

Well, thank you guys all so much for being here. I know that everyone is really busy with schedules. All of you guys are really talented and really busy, and I'm so glad that cause I, I asked all of you, I so importantly wanted all of you to be here. And so I, I think it was important to kind of make time for all of you guys to sit down. And I appreciate this late on a Friday afternoon. I think I was going to say before we started recording, I wanted to get one of these makeup round tables in early. I think it's so important with, you know, how close you guys are and involved you guys are with the clients. Obviously, you know, every wedding is going to have some aspect of beauty and makeup involved. And so I wanted to make sure that we had a good round table discussion about, you know, safety stuff, what you guys are doing thoughts. And I'm sure there's even lots of stuff that I'm not even thinking about. And you guys are all way smarter about this than I am. So I figured we'll just kinda let you guys have added, but why don't we start with Anne and just introduce yourself and we can go around and kind of introduce everyone.

(00:01:04):

Okay. Hi, I'm Anne Timms from Anne Timss makeup and hair real original there. And I'm a stylist. I've been doing this for a very long time. What else? That's it. Hey hi, I'm Kat St. John with Kat St. John makeup and styling. I've been doing makeup now for 12, 13 years. Yeah. And I'm happy to be here. Thanks for asking me to be on

(00:01:34):

And Korrine. I got this special invitation because you defended my podcast online. When someone was saying that I was shamelessly plugging it besides being a longtime friend and the talented artists. And why don't you introduce yourself?

(00:01:46):

Hi, I'm Korrine from Korrine C. Makeup Artist and Esthetician. I've been a licensed esthetician since 2011 or no, 2008 with me being a business owner since 2011. And I just have a really big passion for the wedding industry and everything that goes with it. So, yeah.

(00:02:09):

Awesome. And then Michelle, and then she would say hi and recent guest on the Get to Know Your Wedding Pro® podcast. We got to sit down and chat. Why don't you say hi?

(00:02:16):

Oh yeah, that was so fun. Hi, I'm Michelle Wight. I'm the owner of Michelle Wight makeup artist. I've been styling for about 15 years.

(00:02:26):

Awesome. And first off I just wanted to do kind of a brief check in. I know we're the odd time, you know, they had some new guidelines come out yesterday. You know, people are kind of, you know, freaking out about, you know, the, the guidelines and stuff, but I know you guys all seem still pretty busy. How, how has everything going so far? How, how are your couples, you know, just kind of a general check-in and maybe Michelle, we can start with you and go back around the other way. Just how are things right now and your couples feeling?

(00:02:53):

So I feel like I definitely have the either or a couple, I have couples are

(00:03:00):

Really wanting to celebrate the way they've always envisioned. And so they are post-planning to 2021, and then I have some couples who are like, Nope, we're doing it. And fully embracing, you know, all of the things and guidelines and masks and everything that come with it. Yeah, so there's really no in between you're, they're either fully in or just waiting it out. Most of my clients are rescheduling or canceling. I just got a cancellation this morning for September 12th. But then I also still have quite a few that are going to wait it out. Like my August weddings and most of my September weddings are still gonna wait and see if the guidelines will change. So that's been nice and I have been staying a little busy, not as busy as I would like to be, but there's still some things happening, which is cool. So,

(00:04:00):

Okay. How are things going for you?

(00:04:03):

Well, I, I'm thankful to have my personal clients. I'll just say that I have one wedding on the books, everything else moved to next year or 2022. I did have two cancellations completely, but yeah, so things are going good. I, again, I'm very thankful for my personal clients. They're kind of keeping me afloat and sane cause I'm actually working. So,

(00:04:30):

And you had a busy week. How's everything going for you?

(00:04:33):

Good. I am in a unique position that really embraced this sort of situation. I specialize in adventure elopements. So I do very, very small intimate weddings that are in the mountains. So these are weddings that people had already had been planning on doing. So for me, my books pretty much just doubled. But with that, you know, people are concerned. Those coming from out of state, I had a long conversation with the client today who was coming in from Florida. And they're not sure if they're going to make that trip or not. I definitely have had some cancellations. And I also do traditional weddings as well and like yours, Karen and Michelle and all of us, those have for the most part healed over to 2021. But I think with the fact that I spent a lot of time in the mountains and driving just kinda one-on-one situations it's been okay.

(00:05:28):

Yeah. It's a weird time because like you said, you know, we're so getting cancellations, you know, I just sent out a couple like August and September ones today. I'm like, okay, I guess we'll try to schedule them. You know what I mean? I'm almost at the point where it's like, sure, but I'm not going to, you know, hold my breath at these, you know, when it's kind of sending them. But the, the reason why I wanted to do this so much is that all the weddings that we've had so far since kind of this reopening have been just ceremony on. So, you know, either ceremony live streams or like through the reception and stuff we haven't done any getting ready since kind of all this all covert everything. And Amy was on Amy Soper was on the podcast last week and she was talking about doing photographing or, you know, not photographing getting ready and talking about all the safety stuff, you know, you guys have to take care of and, you know, whether or not people would want photos of that or, you know, bridesmaids and mass and kind of all this stuff.

(00:06:23):

And so that really kind of got me thinking about all of this. How much has, has all your guys's thought process change, you know, since all this has gone on in terms of like, not only your safety, but also the safety of the clients you're working with and maybe, and we can start and circle back around.

(00:06:39):

So from a, like a process standpoint of how I work out of like my kid with everything like that, nothing has changed because I've always had to infer all professional makeup artists who really take their craft. Seriously. We have a really strong guideline of hygienic standards that we have to, I keep saying that there's there's pesky or things that can get into your kit and spread from client to client than COVID, there's things that can just completely destroy your business if it gets into your kit. And those are like, you know, all sorts of gross things like herpes and Marissa and staff and things like that. And so we've always taken a really, really you know, a strong point against that being prepared for it. The thing that's changed obviously is how we protect ourselves. So gloves in 95 masks, face shields, all of those types of things, UV light, sanitation distance I'm sure these guys will add all long lists to that, but that's a big, big part of it is really how do we protect ourselves and how do we protect ourselves in a way to build a move from client to client.

(00:07:42):

Carol? What are your thoughts on that? Well that's yeah, same here. My, my thinking also is like where I keep my kit because you know, six feet away. So now I'm kind of like spread out a little bit more and need a little bit more space, the bridal suite to thinking about, okay, how many people are going to be in here. You can't be milling about, please know, food, do not eat around me. Like all of that kind of stuff, where people were just like drinking champagne and having snacks, like all of that. Like I never thought I would have to really manage that, but I have to ask ahead of time, like, please do not eat food around us. Like stay in another room, only limit who is getting styled during that time around us. And just allotting time for safety and making sure you have time for turnover. That's a little bit extra time too. So timelines, they have been pulled a little bit more, so it takes a little more time to get ready. But, and then also I, we talked about this on our podcast episode and tonight is the show. We usually put things into play and it's like real, pretty like all this stuff. And it's like no longer like that I'm working of my bag. I

(00:08:56):

Only take out exactly what I need. Each client has their own set of brushes. And I've never been a person

(00:09:02):

And that cleans brushes between clients. So that kind of works in my favor. Or do you have like 300 brushes, but those are kind of the things that I think about Chris, what are you thinking about kind of as we enter all those?

(00:09:14):

So I have, my sanitation has never changed. I've always scraped out my powders. I've always scooped out my cream products. I've always worked off of disposable pallets and have a clean set of brushes per client. The space I have to have less than 10 people in my workspace. And that includes the stylist that I bring on and the clientele. But in terms of COVID, I have to, I have guidelines that are on my website that they have to approve of if they do not approve of what is on my website and my guidelines. I do not take them on as a client immediately upon entering a space I'm in all of my PPE gear. So like they know, I mean business and in terms of we both wash our hands. When they sit in my chair, my chair is covered with a paper pallet like disposable paper.

(00:10:12):

So that's completely covered and I can switch out between clients and then I have them self check her their symptoms and they have to let me know ahead of time. And other than that, I mean, for the most part, I've kept my kit very clean and sanitized. I have a three step sanitation and cleaning process for my brushes. So I think that part hasn't changed. It's just definitely gloves, hand sanitizers, readily available. I need a sink that I can wash my hands in between clients. I have to change my smocks in between clients. So there's a lot more to it in terms of that. And then of course like our space, like my clients have to come in wearing masks, the masks state on until I do their live application and their foundation. And during that process, I asked them not to speak, which that's been my hardest challenges to be like, okay, you cannot talk during this part. So that's kind of what I'm doing. And so far everybody's been really nice about it. So because they understand that we're super close.

(00:11:24):

Michelle, what about you?

(00:11:27):

A lot of the same from what everyone has said, I wasn't really too concerned about sanitation because just echoing the other stylist, we really have to have your sanitation down anyway. I mean, we're using products on, you know, multiple different people at the same time and you have to do that. You know, that's always been in practice, but what has not been for me when

(00:11:54):

I've had kind of a tough time, I've, I've had three weddings since all of this being the enforcer he's rules. Especially with weddings that are small, they're already like downsides and they're intimate. So it's like mom and a best friend and a sister, but I have made it so that I am in a separate room and only one on one with a client. I don't let anyone else in the room. And so when mom comes in or grandma comes in, you know, I have to just politely remind them one, please don't enter without a mask to, we really need to keep this space just one-on-one until it's your time. That's really hard for me. I, I don't, I know it's not confrontational, but I'm just like really bad at that. And so I, you know, but you have to like really just to protect the client and protect yourself. I don't want to get sick. I four little kids at home, last thing I needed, Jay was like, touch something. So, and working in PPE is a lot more challenging than I ever anticipated. It gets so hot with the face shield and a mask, and I wear eye protection. You're just like by your third service I'm well, I personally was like hot and sweating. It was not as easy as I thought it would be.

(00:13:11):

Do you guys worry about, you know, your own safety and health, how much of that weighs in it? We just you know, we're, we're getting into our larger weddings and I'm trying to figure out like second shooters and stuff to work. And I've had even some of my, you know, people say, Hey, I don't, you know, I don't really feel comfortable working in that. Right. And we've had to, you know, obviously respect stuff. Do you guys, do you guys worry about that? Do you just, is it do the best you can to protect and then it's business as normal? I mean, in that, I don't know. It could be, obviously it's a really personal decision which way about it, but how are you guys feeling about that cat? Do you have any thoughts?

(00:13:47):

Well, it's always a concern because I, you know, as we know, like if we were to catch anything and give it to our clients, like I would never want that to happen, but I think my main concern is, and I know that Anna and I have had extensive conversations about this are people that for a long time, they'd say, Oh, it's just allergies. I have a little tickle in my throat. And then sure enough, like four days later I'm sick and it's, it's really hard to trust that people are a hundred percent healthy or maybe they're not showing symptoms. And that's the, that's the scary thing about this virus. However, we also need to live our lives and work and make money to pay or mortgage. So it's like, this is a struggle. So I, yes, I'm concerned about my health. Absolutely. But I'm more concerned about my client's health too. Like I don't want to pass anything on to them. So protecting ourselves, that's, that's the best way to, you know, protect everybody. But yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't know if there's like a right or wrong to that, but that's just

(00:14:52):

My personal opinion.

(00:14:53):

So green, what about that?

(00:14:57):

Yeah, I'm 100% worried that because COVID is asymptomatic. That is something that I'm a little concerned about. And I have always kind of gone with the theory that anyone who's sitting in my chair could be carrying something, some form of a germ. So that's why I've always kept my kit super sanitary. But COVID, it's just such a tricky virus that I will adhere to the state guidelines and what they're recommending. And you know, I'm not going to have an argument with my clients. Like they have to wear a mask the entire time and I have face shields that I will clip into their hair, so my hairstylists are safe. So it's definitely, I have immunocompromised stylists that work with me. So it's, you know, definitely their choice to work, but their health and our health and our clients' health are my number one top priority.

(00:15:59):

Michelle, what do you think?

(00:16:01):

You know, I, it's really hard. Yes. I am concerned about my health. I'm I just want to go above and beyond to protect clients, but then like the other girls said, we have to work. Like we have families to support. So it is a really delicate balance to try and keep everyone as safe as possible, but still basically being, you know, on the frontline and exposing ourselves. I do have stylists who helped me as well. And, you know, we've had these tough conversations. Some of them aren't as comfortable working. Some of them rather just like be on an elopement, which I completely understand. I totally respect that. Rather than be in a room and, you know, help style a larger bridal party and that just, you know, it is what it is for now and whatever anyone's like, level of comfort is, is what I just try and poke off of.

(00:17:03):

How were you feeling? Same. I mean, it's it's challenging. It's, you know, it keeps me up at night. I think about it. I think that we just for me, I just have to move forward and with extreme caution, you know, be extraordinarily cautious about it and use all of the steps and protections I can and have like really good conversations with my clients ahead of time. I let all of them know it's on my website as well. And it says in the handout that I sent out about, you know, what to expect so that, you know, the stylist doesn't walk up in a space suit and I'm like, what the hell? I it's really transparent about it, but it has to be a really, you know, open conversation. I, you know, get to like an Airbnb. I haven't done any big weddings since COVID at all at any of them.

(00:17:51):

I've just done these little video Lovins and which has been great. So but I've walked up to rental situations where people haven't been wearing masks and they're like, Oh, should we put them on? I'm like, absolutely. You only need to wear them while I'm here. So everybody, you know, who's there and what's the, what do you have to ask? Like, I know, why are you asking? I know, but you know, you would be surprised. It's like, it's why we're in this situation. We are as a country, it's like, I've walked up to, you know, an Airbnb up on Mount Rainier and there's like four people like in their pod of people running around together, like, Oh, would you like us to put masks on? And like, yes, I would absolutely like you to put masks on and also just say over there, let me just do my job here and get out.

(00:18:40):

And, and yeah, so it's definitely a concern, but like how it was saying, you know, and Michelle to, you know, just to resonate on that, like, we, we do need to work. We're not in a situation as independent business owners where this country has been generous enough for us to rely on any sort of support in aid to not be working and not a very unfortunate part of our government. And I will just leave it right there on the table, but, you know, I know most people cannot survive on anywhere from two to $800 a week. It just doesn't when you have family of four or whatever the case is. So we're kind of backed into a corner as independent businesses that we need to work.

(00:19:19):

Yeah. When you're talking about the safety stuff, and I said, I can't remember one of the days I said that we had done one of our first weddings and, you know, the groomsmen are like sharing bottles of champagne and like, why do you need each other cigars and stuff? And I'm like, you know, I mean, we're just aware that that's an odd, that's a really odd behavior to see after like living in my house for four months was to walk out and be like, wow,

(00:19:45):

Oh, go ahead. Sorry. Can I say something like what Rick said? So I think what's hard for me too is, so I did a wedding on July 4th and it was awesome, but like, you don't have control over what happens after you leave. So like, I have control over my space, but like after, I don't know if they're going to wear a mask, I don't know if they're going to dance. I don't know. You know, so I just know I can do my part as a vendor and that's the only thing that I can control. So in terms of like you working with your second shooters, I don't know how strict you have to be to keep your clients and your coworkers safe.

(00:20:24):

I know. Yeah. We're getting to the point where it's like, well, do we document things? I know a lot of photographers have been having that question. And you were talking about, you know, the educating and stuff. Obviously you guys are all either reaching out to your clients and stuff. Are there things that, that you're you know, cause obviously this podcast, you know, should be somewhat tailored to, you know wedding planning, couples who are listening to this, are there things that you've let them know that they're like totally snowballed about that? Like they have no idea or like educational stuff that they're not even thinking about. Like, I know photographers have been emailing about like mass and stuff and people are like, I didn't even realize that I would have to do that. You know, have you guys found any sort of not pushback, but just like unawareness of safety stuff that you guys are going to have to take

(00:21:09):

For me? I haven't, because again, most of my clients are traveling, so a lot of them are getting on planes or they're just, you know, there's reasons why they're a loping at this point. So I think any time I go through like the checklist with everybody, like they're thankful for it. They appreciate it. I mean, I think the one thing, like I mentioned is like walking into an Airbnb and they're in their pod group of their, you know, their Corona pod of people. And they're super comfortable not wearing masks around each other because they've established that, you know, that, that sort of situation, but for me to come in and ask them to all worry about us, that's the only time that I've had like hiccups and they've, I will say they've all been like, all of my situations have been like accommodating, but it's kind of like, Oh yeah, you're not part of our group.

(00:21:54):

Yeah. And I have to also let them know. I'm like, not just to protect me, but for you to be protected from me. I, I see a lot of different people, you know, I'm like one of those really single guys, seventies at this point. Like I see a lot of folks in that last statement that you just said, I've you don't know, who's sitting in your chair, what their beliefs are. Like, you have no idea what you're going to encounter. And I think that's where you really have to trend lately. Because some people get really offended really fast. And as, as makeup artists, we want people to feel good and, you know, have we set the tone for the day? So I've had only one or two experiences where they were like, Oh, don't wear that mask around me. And I'm like, Hm, I'm gonna wear this mask around you.

(00:22:44):

You know, I have to like, say, I'm sorry, but then, then I say, I'm protecting you. This is me because I see so many clients, I want to make sure that you are taken care of. So when I take that approach, then it's like, it kind of softens the blow, but there are definitely people that have like, not wanted me to wear a mask. So I think that's that, that's that aha moment you're asking about read. It's kind of like, they haven't thought about the fact that their stylist has had other jobs and been around other people before them. So it's kind of like, it's not just me, like I'm working. So, you know, being asymptomatic, you know, you could be, we don't know, this virus is very tricky. It's very so many unknowns and we can't be, you can just, can't be too cautious.

(00:23:30):

Michelle, what do you think?

(00:23:33):

I think my experience so far people, my clients have been very grateful because I do send out a safety policy before so that they can review it. And again, ask me any beforehand.

(00:23:47):

I think the biggest change that I've seen where, you know, they're not really thinking about it. Usually I'm like in the mix of, you know, the celebrating. So, you know, they're eating and drinking champagne and everyone's in a big room. And so to ask, like, we need to have our own separate space and we're not going to be in a communal room. Like everyone can't be together. What we're doing here make up it's one on one that has just been like, Oh yeah, I didn't think about that, but no problem. You know, so they've been very understanding, but it's just, it was really helpful to send out those guidelines beforehand

(00:24:25):

And Korrine. What about you on this one?

(00:24:28):

I definitely communicate with my clients prior to booking and then they get an email when they sign their contract with my policies for COVID. And then right before their appointment, they have to fill out my liability form that my insurance wants them to fill out. But I think the hardest part is when you're going to people's houses to get ready, because it's completely different than me in an, like in a hotel or an Airbnb. Like when you come in and you're in your full PPE of year and they're in their house and then you're like, Oh, can you wear a mask? They're kind of like, Oh yeah, I probably should. But they're like, this is still my house. So that's been kind of, the hardest part for me is to be like, you know, even though we're in your house and you feel like your house is safe, it's not safe for me.

(00:25:23):

I still have to be in my PPE gear to protect you because I have been around people and I can't quarantine every two for like, if I can't do a job and then quarantine for two weeks, like that's, you're unrealistic. So I think that's been like, the hardest part is you're going into their personal space and then you're telling them, Hey, you need a mask. You need to be, you know, washing your hands and you know, you have to clean your table in front of me. And they're kind of like, okay. Yeah, she means business. So, but you know,

(00:25:58):

Yeah. It's just where the people aren't thinking that we, we have a I guess it was in the moment, whatever, a small wedding yesterday. And they had emailed me and they said, Hey, you know, we're gonna get ready or can you are you going to have an assistant or something? Do you think someone could pick up the bride and bring her to like where we're getting ready? And I'm like, absolutely not. Like, absolutely not in like a million years, but I'm like, also you don't want, you wouldn't want to get in my car. Right. Like I wouldn't want, you know, and they, you know, they, they recommend against that just anyway. Right. For like liability and insurance and stuff. Like, absolutely. Like right now, I was like, absolutely not like, this is not like, I'm really sorry. Like I hate to say no on your wedding day, but like, you know, but you just don't think about that kind of stuff. You know, speaking of a curtain you were talking about having people, you know, fill out and sign, you know, the liability is anyone else, are you guys having people do that? Is that something I don't, I know that photographers have been having people sign waivers, you know, like if they're going to have to pose people or whatever, are you guys, is that something

(00:27:01):

Yes, I have been, Oh, sorry, go ahead, Michelle, go ahead. I, I do have them sign a waiver. I, when I am doing trials, so both at trial and then Diaz, and then if I have, if they have a bridal party or isn't even a really bridal party now it's mostly like family, like mom, grandma, sister, everyone needs to sign a waiver. I don't have a waiver. I have it in my contract. So they have to sign off that. They acknowledge that from the very beginning. And then I have it in my prep information. So it's, it's included. So I'm, I don't necessarily have a waiver, but it is included in my contract that States, like, I acknowledge these things so on and so forth.

(00:27:52):

Is that new stuff that you've added in since all this

(00:27:56):

Yup. And cancellation policies related to COVID

(00:27:59):

Yeah. That's a whole nother thing.

(00:28:05):

Yeah.

(00:28:08):

Where, where a lot of the weddings are, you know, downsizing now or, you know, and like, and I know that that's kind of your specialty, but I do think that like, luckily, you know, at least for me, there's been an uptick in people wanting videography and like live streaming because a lot of people can't come, but you know, maybe people are thinking like, well, it's small, you know, we can cut out the makeup or like, we don't need that. Like, how are you guys how do you sell that right to that service to make sure that even if you are doing, I mean, a micro wedding during the low man or whatever, how do you sell that, that you still want to have, you know, safe and professional, you know, hair, makeup come in. What, what does that conversation look like? And I know that a lot of you guys specialize in that, so maybe you already have spiels. I don't, you know, and go for it. What's your spiel?

(00:28:57):

Like how I'll approach it like safely.

(00:29:00):

Is it just that the people are thinking about scaling back and like cutting that and why is it important to still make sure that you have, you know, someone safe and professional coming in to do your makeup and not trying to have a friend do it or DIY or, you know, whatever.

(00:29:13):

Oh, I see what you're saying. Well, I mean, I think that's a conversation that I have COVID or not. COVID like, don't hire your friends, do your makeup. They probably would not be good at it. Like, they're probably good at their own makeup, but like, you know, having a career where you do a bajillion different faces is a different skill. So I honestly, I don't have a great answer for that. I work with a really great network of, of people who support me and share my name around. And I think my work speaks for itself. And I don't know, honestly, I thought the best person to answer that I get the inquiries and I answer them and I'm like, Hey, I'm available or not. But I don't try to talk anybody into makeup. Like that's, that's like, if you don't wanna make her don't get makeup, I actually try to talk most couples that are hiring makeup for engagement photos.

(00:30:05):

I'm like to hero makeup. You should look like yourself. Like you don't need me. I, and I know, sorry guys. Sorry. I love engagement. Shoot. I mean, it's great. I don't mind doing them, but I feel like I just, as a whole other conversation, I just felt like you should just look like yourself. You don't need like all the big hair and makeup. I do do them. But you know, when people ask me, like, I dunno, I was thinking about hiring makeup. I'm like, are you good at doing makeup, your own makeup? And I'm like, I'm pretty good at it. I'm like just your makeup. But yeah, I dunno. I just take a different approach to all that. I'm not, I am going to be the last person who's going to try and talk somebody into hiring me. I just want to hire me, hiring me anytime.

(00:30:45):

Yeah. Let's, let's take this on cat

(00:30:47):

Mike. Can't you take it. Okay. Here's the thing, the best, so much money in your photographer, but you're spending thousands of dollars to have these beautiful photos taken of you. Why would you not hire a makeup artist that knows how product translates on camera? Who can make you look your absolute best? Who can make you relax on your wedding day? There are so many things to think about. And my biggest one is you. I will honestly say from experience because I got married 14 years ago before I knew that makeup artistry onsite was even a thing is I wish that I could have sat down and not had to think about that. Cause there's a million other things that we need to think about on our wedding day. So there's that. And just the whole, this is the basis of like investing so much money in your photography.

(00:31:40):

You should look your best, even if it's not your bridesmaids, you should look your best. Oh, I agree with you on that, on that part of the topic. Yes. Like anybody who spent like a dollar on a photographer or maybe more like you should have hair and makeup, but I'm just saying if someone comes to me and they're like, well, I don't know. I was thinking about hair and makeup. Like, I'm not gonna like put a lot. I'm not going to put a lot of effort. I will explain why, but like, I'm not going to get out the, you know, buy my Toyota sale and get you to hire me. It's like, I don't know.

(00:32:12):

My thought process was, you know the safety and knowledge that you guys are bringing in maybe to and, and how that would translate where if you, even, if it was going to be, you know, a smaller wedding or whatever, you know, you would still want someone with the same level of expertise coming in, you know, for safety and stuff like that. Does anyone else want to tackle that and kind of parlay what I was talking about?

(00:32:34):

Well, I like to put, Oh, sorry. Oh, no, go ahead. He didn't, he didn't give name.

(00:32:43):

I like to, I blog. So I tend to put all of those things out into the universe, through my blog. Usually when I'm finally in contact with a client, it is already through an inquiry, so they are already seeking hair and makeup. But I mean, I definitely put in my 2 cents of why it's important, especially now more than ever. I've talked about it a lot on Instagram and Instastories, picking your friend to do your hair and makeup for your micro wedding might not be the best idea before COVID and definitely not after COVID. And this is why. And I'll just list like mostly because of safety reasons, you know, sanitation, they're using their own products in their makeup bag, probably. So it's definitely things I blogged about, but I haven't had a one on one conversation with a client.

(00:33:36):

Well, I think that kind of goes with, there was a wedding planner who was trying to help a bride and they were trying to figure out if the makeup artist should have insurance and be licensed. And I'm pretty sure we all commented on it. But I know Kat did, but the thing is, well, I know cat did when you are insured and you have your business licenses and you're doing things correctly, then you will be hiring somebody. Who's going to take your health and safety seriously. And they're going to take the extra precautions to keep you safe. And I think during COVID to talk to brides about that and say, you know, you want all, you want to hire somebody with all their ducks in a row, I think is super important because we will take your health seriously. We're going to make sure that we, you know, are sanitizing in between. We're going to make sure that our brushes are all clean. We're going to take those extra steps that maybe a makeup artist who's not got insurance or all their licensing or whatever is maybe not going to do. So I think safety is definitely an important topic when you're talking to brides about why it's important to hire a makeup artist during the 2020 COVID pandemic. So

(00:35:07):

That was good. Thank you. If I'm, if I'm someone that's still planning to get married this year what, what do I need to be thinking about from, you know, setting myself up best for success, setting up, you know, my makeup, our, this best for success, you know, on the wedding day, whether things that I should be working for and trying to plan and a cat, we'll start with you on this one, discussing. Okay. Can you ask that

(00:35:38):

Question one more time? Sorry, Frank. You the question so I can answer appropriately.

(00:35:44):

If I'm planning the wedding this year, what do I need to do to ensure they have the best success for, you know, you to be able to do your job for me to get married, as it relates to getting my beauty stuff done for the wedding day, what could I help provide for you? What do I need to keep thinking about as I'm developing my plan? Do I need a longer timeline? Do I need, like you guys are talking about having separate spaces for getting ready, you know, all these different things, whether some tangible things that people can take from this and say, okay, these are three or four or five things that I need to, you know, be thinking about now as I'm planning my wedding, you know, as it relates to you guys in this round table

(00:36:24):

I would say, I think just simply asking what each artists need, because I think it's going to depend on how many people are there, where you're getting ready. I mean, I know that for me, I, if somebody asks me what I need from them, then I'll be able to dissect and say, okay, well I need to know where you're getting ready. What does it look like? How many people do you have? Like, what's, what's the situation look like? And then I can really kind of put together an idea of exactly what I would need. I'd say first things first, please have an open space. That's away from everyone. And a tabletop for me to work on, do not make me work in a bathroom. I am not going to work in a bathroom. That's disgusting. Sorry. That does happen. People say, Oh, you get in them. I'm like, where are you going to go bathroom? I'm not getting out of the bathroom to have people use it around my stuff. It's just weird. But yeah, I think that, that, I think just them asking, cause I don't actually get that question. I have to sit there and tell people like, these are the things that we need to think about and I might be missing something. So I think it's great for just for them to open up that dialogue.

(00:37:31):

Karen, what about you?

(00:37:33):

I definitely need a separate workspace. That is big enough for the bridal party and whoever I am bringing on because I only do makeup. That usually means that we have two, two people working in the event. So we need six feet of space for each of us. And then a place to wash our hands. So like a kitchen sink or a bathroom or something that we can wash our hands and definitely extra time because we do have to change our smocks in between clients now. And other than that, I would say that those are my main, Oh, everybody wearing masks. That's the other one. So if she has to provide those for them or if I provide them for them everybody needs a mask.

(00:38:25):

Michelle, what about you?

(00:38:27):

Really just echoing the same that everything that the girls have said. I, I have sort of just like safety protocols that I've been sending out to booked clients and future clients, just so that they have an idea of what to expect. And it's just really making sure that we have a safe place to get everybody ready. I'm definitely not going into the bathroom. It's so gross. And I can't even believe that I've ever done that because it definitely has happened in like hotel suites and things. You don't really think about it, but now definitely not. So just setting up an expectation I mean it's the same thing. So it's just, you know, I also think that brides really need to really think about is should you be getting married this year? As much as I love working as a stylist in this industry, like, is this really the best decision for your life?

(00:39:19):

And for everybody around you, like, is this really that important? And for some people it is, and I get it and that's, those are the ones that we're here for. But you know, it's, I think people need to really step back and look at like what they had in vision is it makes sense to do it this year and understand that our rules and our laws in Washington and as a country are changing every single day. Right now with the new regulations from governor Inslee, it's no more than five people in a social group starting Monday for phases one and two and phase 10 or phase three. It's no more than 10 people, which doesn't apply to weddings and funerals, but I can change. So I think that people really need to like really sit down and think about all of these kinds of things before they even really approach like, you know, moving forward on any wedding planning. I really feel like that. And I know that's hard to say because this is our livelihood, but at the same time, like this is our humanity and this is, these are our lives, these are our family's lives and these are the lives of other people. So that's what I really think about it.

(00:40:20):

No, it's it's cause I was talking with Dorothy last night cause you know, she came home and I was watching that press conference and everything I'm like even explaining it to my wife is like married to wedding videographer. And she's like, well I don't, I don't know if that really makes the most sense. And I was like, I know, I know, like I can't, you know, but I also wasn't the one that like fought for that to, Oh, I don't know. It's so tough. Cause you're like, well obviously we have to do what we need to do now that you can and it's but yeah. And I was like, I dunno, I didn't make the rules. You know, I'm just trying to drive the speed limit.

(00:40:51):

Yeah. And it's hard because you know, for all of us, like we can't socially sense at all. And we are putting ourselves in just as much risk as people who are working on the front lines are not just as much, but if we're in that same risky category, as you know, with all of that, like, you know, close quarters and touch and you know, all of them and is it really worth it? Like, you know, I personally had a COVID scare. I had a dental appointment recently and my dentist tested positive and it was really scary and I don't have it, but it really made me step back and think like, do I really need to go in and get my nails done? I really don't. I don't need to like do these little risks that, you know, just for what, like the risks that are important are the things that, you know, have to do to get by in line. But it just kind of put things into a bigger perspective that I feel like we're in a really, you know, we're in a very dangerous spot and we have to really think about those things. And for some people getting married this year, it's, it is important. You know, they have family who want to see them marry and maybe someone that won't be around for a long time. And there's really great reasons, you know, all sorts of reasons why, but I don't know

(00:41:56):

Anyone else have thoughts on that?

(00:41:59):

I mean, I, I preemptively, I just asked all of my brides if their weddings were still happening and that they needed to let me know by a certain time. And I guess I don't do as many big weddings. I usually will do like bride only or bride plus three. And honestly I do more helping on weddings than I do book them. Let's be real. But for me I, I think part of it is not even like, do you want to get married this year? Is it worth the risk is, I mean, you know, you have people flying in from out of town. Do you want them to go and buy their ticket and then have to cancel every single thing? So you have to think about all those people investing, all that money, all that time, all that travel only to cancel it at the last minute and feel like that's really risky, but some people are willing to do that and maybe they don't have family coming in from out of town. And and like you said, and maybe they have a family member who's sick or their grandparents have, you know, like they're old and they want to have this memory with them. So there's just a lot to think about, you know I don't think there's any right or wrong answer. I think everybody's situation is completely different. We have different clients.

(00:43:18):

Yeah.

(00:43:22):

I think it depends too on how flexible their other vendors are being. They cancel, I have a lot of brides who are like, my venue is not being very flexible and it's, I think puts them in a very tough spot to either a continue on until it's an absolute no. Or you know, they're just going to cancel and then they lose out on their re you know, their deposit or whatever. So I think a lot of my clients are sitting in thinking, okay, we have all of these vendors scheduled and booked and I have to now talk to all of them to see what their cancellation policy is and see what we have got to do. So for me, I'm being super flexible, but I know that other vendors can't, or you know, they're in a tough spot. So I'm, I'm with you current I'm I've been like, what, what can I do for you?

(00:44:19):

I want to be known as the vendor who ma I just keep saying, none of us asked for this, like, you know, what can I do? Or we postponing or cancelling, you know, I've had clients from out of who canceled. I've given them a full refund. I don't have to, but I've done it just because I feel like it's the right thing to do, but I definitely know what you're talking about. I have heard again and again and again about venues being the most difficult to work with, not being forgiving, not moving dates, giving them really tiny windows to re scheduled dates for the next year. That's definitely challenging read. You need to do a venue show.

(00:44:57):

We did. I assumed you had listened.

(00:44:59):

No, sorry. I did it.

(00:45:03):

I'm Michelle. I wanted to give you a chance to talk on this one before we move to the next topic.

(00:45:08):

Oh. You know, I think it's definitely situational. And I really feel for our vendor community because their hair makeup is, you know, definitely not the same as a venue that we can go to a private home and, or, you know, we can have these smaller, low payments or just pivot our business a little bit differently and these venues are being hit so, so hard. So I kind of feel for them. I know, I feel for both the client and the vendors. But yeah, it's, it's just so, it's so tricky. Right? Luckily I have been very proactive and reached out to just kind of gauge where our clients are right now. And I would say 70% have canceled their venue and they're getting married in a private home or like a parent's backyard or, you know, outside somewhere in a private residence. So, and I'm like, I'm glad that there's, I mean, they want to get mad at people still want to get married. That's the thing they still want to celebrate and get married. And even though it looks different and you know, I'm here to support that, but it definitely is hard.

(00:46:27):

Yeah. Just when you guys are talking about the risk and everything, we were supposed to do a live stream tonight for just like a last minute allotment, just tiny, you know, like six people and the groom has a cancer, like secondary, you know, the second state, whatever cancer. And his father just called yesterday and said that the grooms the group has an 11 year old daughter and that they were afraid that she had COVID that they had to take her in for a test. Right. And so it's like, obviously, you know, it puts everything and you're like, wow. You know, like it didn't, you know, the, the risks come from everywhere. Right. And whether, if we had done that wedding and, you know, the groom got sick or we got sick or, you know, she got worse or, you know, you don't know. And so it's like, even that where mean, and this was literally like within 24 hours, you know, last night when it was going to be tonight. And you're just like, wow, like that, you know, that could happen to each and every person, you know, at every wedding, you know, we're not that far off from that.

(00:47:29):

What more just, it seemed like for a little while we were, you know, we were kind of going back to weddings and, you know, we were talking to this much about like rescheduling and rescheduling and cancellations and stuff. I know. And you said you've been pretty flexible with that. You know, how, how are, you know, the, the mega bar that's like, how is that community, how are you guys handling? And obviously I know it's different on a case by case, but just to kind of a general, like overview of, of how does that working in unify, if I'm getting married and I have to reschedule with you guys and and unless you have anything else, we can start with Kyle on that one.

(00:48:03):

I am offering their deposit to be transferable and I do not raise my rates every year. We kind of have to raise our rates like this year, I've had to raise my rates because of my PPE. But they can still have the same rate as before I transfer their deposit. If I'm open, if I'm not open, I'm happy to refund the deposit. Or if I know the makeup artist and I found the makeup artist, cause sometimes we will do that. I know Anna and I both have a network of people and sometimes, you know, we'll ask around and if we know that person, we can just transfer that, you know, to the next makeup artist as their deposit. Obviously there are dates that we might not be open. And so I think just being flexible in trying to work with the client as best you can, because I don't think anyone really knows the right way to deal with it.

(00:48:57):

I mean, the right way to deal with it is just to be kind and flexible and, you know, don't, I don't keep someone's deposit. I just think that that's kind of not okay, but I know we're all suffering. Like we are financially in a place where we're losing work. And so I'm sure there's a lot of people out there that want to keep the deposit because, you know, they need to, that date is no longer available. But I don't know. That's kind of where I'm at. I just everything's transferable. I just try and make it easy, even like as easy as like me finding another makeup artist that I trust that's available on that date. So they don't have to start from square one.

(00:49:34):

Michelle, what about you?

(00:49:37):

So yeah, this has been really tricky. I have also done transferring of deposit to whatever their postpone date is and have the same rate or the following season. I was actually in a really hard situation. When we were still in lockdown, I had a client who was really pushing for her hair and makeup trial to happen. And I was just like trying to explain so kindly we're not legally allowed to open like I'm not going to be able to have your child on this date, even though I know we chatted about it and she decided to go with another stylist. And that was her decision. But you know, she did want her deposit

(00:50:28):

Back and I, I decided not to give her deposit back because we did end up opening and it was foreign elopement and I wasn't willing to break the law just to have a trial. And so I didn't feel like it was fair to be like though because of that. So I think it's definitely situational, but for all of my postponements, yes. If I'm not available, they get their full deposit back. And if I'm available, I just transfer their date over. Good for you for holding your ground on that. That was good. It was hard on that. Yeah, I am definitely doing exactly what Kat and Michelle are doing. I am transferring their nonrefundable booking fee to their new date. And actually I have decided, or any future dates who are booking in 2020 that I'm not even going to take a deposit.

(00:51:32):

I'm just having them sign a contract because I'm so tired of refunding people, which I know sounds really bad, but I'm just like, I'm so over it that I'm like, I would rather just do the work. And I think the contract is enough and because 90% of the time it's getting canceled. So that's kind of where I'm at. And I know it's probably not the best way, but I just, it just, it is what it is. So any client that is transferring to 2021, I am giving them a chance to use their booking fee for that. And then any buddy who has to cancel, they're getting a refund of their booking fee that they have already paid. And that's just kind of how it's going.

(00:52:17):

Yeah, no, I think I was saying that before we started recording that I send that to contracts with them and I'm like, I don't really care if you guys pay the deposit. I mean, we're going to see in two weeks, it's like, I'm either going to work or I'm not, but I know it's tough. Like you guys said, I think you know, with the venues and everything, I do think for a long time there has been kind of, they've really ruled the roost right. Then use and being able to really dictate a lot of scheduling and availability and pricing and stuff. And, you know, I think that that mentality is, is carrying over when it comes to trying to reschedule and stuff. But no it's stuff. I know we have, I have a wedding that I had just found out, you know, they have a lawyer looking through all the cancellation contracts because you know, they're deciding to cancel and not wanting to work and not wanting to downsize and not wanting to postpone and not wanting to do whatever.

(00:53:06):

And at least today, right now there's nothing that's stopping them from getting married. And I know that it's not the wedding. Did anyone really thought it was going to be a year and a half ago, but that's, that's just the truth of it. And so, you know, but there, I just, you know, whatever a couple of days ago, they're like, yeah, you know, the lawyer's looking through everything and we'll get in and you're like, okay, you know, I guess we'll, we'll see how that we'll see how that winds up. But you know, it's, I think, like you said, we're all trying to be as flexible as we possibly can. And so it's, it's tough. You have to ask your couples to be flexible too. And when it's not, when there's no flexibility there, this a little tough.

(00:53:41):

Yeah. I will say I've had weddings that have canceled this year, under circumstances where they could have had them. And I haven't returned the reservation fee. I just, I'm not, I'm not going to it's because these are the weddings that I've put a lot of work into. I've been working with these clients for a year. I booked like a year out on, you know, prime Saturdays. I've done a lot of leg work and the clients are super understanding about it too. They're like, you know, we so far, they have, like, they've just been like, you know, we understand that you need to be paid fairly for the work that you've already put in on our wedding was scheduling and coordinating. And I do a lot of style consultations and things like that, like, well in advance of ever meeting the client. So I haven't for that, but I've fallen in line with everybody else on everything.

(00:54:23):

Like rolling everything over, no additional fees, you know, that kind of stuff. I will add something though. I did, I had to email somebody cause I'm no longer taking bride only or small weddings next year. Cause I ha I have to, we're not making up for any of the products that we're not probably going to go through PPE costs and all of that. And so I think the only difficult conversation I've had is I've I've had to just say, Hey, I do have a minimum and we need to meet that minimum in order to book. So then I have to hold my ground on that business standpoint.

(00:55:02):

That was going to be my other question to you earlier was you were talking about, you know, having to adjust pricing because of PPP or PPE use. Is that something that anyone has had to look into or implemented yet or current you're not in your head?

(00:55:16):

Oh yes. It's so expensive. So I did raise my rates to reflect that obviously the brides that have had the contract where my old rates were they're still getting honored, but yes, I definitely had to raise my rates a bit because it is, it's a lot, I mean, face shields are expensive. You're going to go through those pretty quickly. Gloves are expensive smocks. I've spent so much money on smocks. You know, cleaning products are expensive, so yeah, you do have to raise your rates to kind of make up for that.

(00:55:55):

Michelle you're on the move.

(00:55:57):

I mean, no, sorry. I was trying to answer the door incognito.

(00:56:02):

Anyone else with with adjusted cost for that for PPE is

(00:56:08):

Yeah, I've just padded it in same thing. It's expensive. It's ridiculously expensive. I have like a $500 order showing up any day now. Crazy. That's the most depressing purchase ever. Oh, I spent hundred dollars. And it's all a gallon of alcohol, bunch of disposables gloves and masks.

(00:56:30):

Yes. Is it, I mean, I don't even, you know, we've just, obviously we just have to, you know, focus on mouse and stuff. Is that something, I mean, you said it, you know not prohibitively expensive, but I mean definitely like outside the realm of what you guys would normally be spending per week, like, is that a 10% more cost per wedding? 20% more costs? I mean, I, you know, I, you, you guys tell me, I mean, I have no idea.

(00:56:55):

I raised my rates $20 to kind of help with the cost of PP here. So, so far I've spent, I don't even want to know, or I don't even want to disclose how much I've spent on PPE stuff. So yeah, that's, it needed to get a little raced a little bit. I think that seems like about right, like 20 bucks a person like, cause [inaudible] is like, depending on where you buy it, they're like five bucks side of the $10. The shields are five to $10, you know, gloves, all that kind of stuff. Sanitizer, you know, the chair covers all those things. They I have implemented a $25 PPE surcharge and it's clearly indicated I've done it for all of my personal clients and you know, and all of them kind of questioned me. And then I tell them exactly how much money I'm spending. And I also buy mass for other people because I don't trust people. I love you, but I don't trust you because I don't know. And so I have assets on hand to give away and I am not kidding you so many people show up without a mask. And so we also have to be prepared in that sense too. So not only are we purchasing things to keep us safe and our jobs, you know, nice and sanitary, but to also be prepared for somebody that is not prepared,

(00:58:28):

Michelle, any thoughts or cost of increasing because of the use of PP.

(00:58:33):

You know, I have not re I raised my rates last season. And so I, I didn't raise my rates to cover PPE. It is expensive. I didn't have the price per person breakdown, but now I'm definitely gonna want to look into that a little more. Yeah, I, I just bought everything I needed for what I thought could help me finish out the season. So

(00:59:00):

Sounds good. Well, I really appreciate your guys assigned today. I know it's not always the most fun topic. A lot of these aren't necessarily the most fun topics, you know, getting this, these fun groups of people together. And sometimes it's a little bit of a down there. Is there anything else that, that, you know, cause I'm the dummy here, right. Is there anything else that I haven't asked about or that you think is important? Anything else? You know, obviously we'll do like a final thought goodbye, but just any other large topics or anything that we, that you think is important if I'm, you know a couple of planning the wedding right now, they get married this year. No,

(00:59:35):

I think you asked all the solid questions. Yeah,

(00:59:39):

Good job. Okay. Why, why don't we do a final, I, you know, final thought goodbye. You know, we'll, we'll include everyone's, you know, websites and everything and all that information, but final thoughts Michelle, we'll start with you and circle back around and then we'll give an, the final word. Cause I think Anne seems like wanted to have the final word. I just easy Michelle, go for it.

(01:00:01):

Oh yeah. Well, thanks for having me on this was super fun. I love doing podcasts. So anytime they get to join. Thank you. You can find me on at www.mlwmakeupartistry.com or on Instagram also @MLWmakeupartistry.

(01:00:21):

Perfect. And thank you and Korrine.

(01:00:24):

Yeah, no thanks for you for having us on. It's always a pleasure talking to you and yeah, just stay safe and yeah, I'll see you hopefully soon for an event.

(01:00:37):

What about you?

(01:00:40):

Well, thank you for having me. I love doing podcasts too. It is beauty based and you can find me. I am probably the least professional handle of all of you. It is ms. Kitten, ms. Dot kitten. I've had it a long time. I'm not getting rid of it. But it's so nice. The good part is, and it's nice to see some familiar faces Kerryn. It's good to see you. So yeah, thanks for having me

(01:01:09):

And Anne tell about your podcast too, before we go. You okay?

(01:01:13):

Oh, Kat and I have a weekly beauty podcast comes out every Thursday, everywhere. You can listen to podcasts. It is called beauty tips and bullshit. And it's a beauty podcast and just all about the lives of our working makeup artists and interviews and all sorts of fun stuff, product reviews, beauty news. Last week we covered the scandalous Jeffrey star and morphine breakdown was very fun. So backing on that just really quick. I just want to say our focus is positivity. We don't. Oh yeah. Yup. It's very much like things. We love things we use, like what we're up to, but we don't, we do not trash product, which is not, you know, we don't get bad reviews. We don't have time for that. But final thoughts. I don't know, keep it safe. You guys, you know, just if you're going to get married, be safe about it and really just have the people that you love closest with you and embrace the new reality of weddings or wait. You can have the big

(01:02:20):

Old shebang with the fireworks and off and all the kisses and the dancing. Cause that's fab too. We love that. So, but thank you for having me on. It's always fun to hang out with you and have you give me lots of shit and I appreciate you. And just for your, for God's sake, you know, wear a mask. I don't know if you guys saw this morning. I was watching, it's like the two surfer bros on like Venice beach. Try the handout, like the mask cat. Have you seen that this morning or yesterday? I posted it. Yeah. I probably saw that. I was like, this is the funniest, I guess he doesn't want to wear a mask go, Oh my God, Google that Google. What is it? Surfer, surfer, bros handing out a mouse or something like that. It's a beach somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks again. This has been an episode of the Best Made Weddings® podcast. If you have a question for a future topic, you can go to www.bestmadevideos.com/survey, and we have everything kind of broken down. If you are someone that's listening and you have a specific vendor question and we'd love to incorporate those into future episodes of the podcast and that thank you guys again so much. And I hope everyone stays safe. Thanks.

Episode 6 - What’s it like photographing weddings right now?

(00:07):

Well, thank you guys all so much for joining us today. I really appreciate kind of getting this together somewhat last minute. The reason why I liked this new podcast format is I think that we can in a somewhat timely manner tackle topics and subjects that are really, you know, front of mind. And I don't think that all episodes are going to be as, you know, kind of exploding information, you know, at a time when this goes away. But I think it's really important now. I think there's a lot of wedding planning couples you know, and vendors really curious about kind of what weddings are like now that we're kind of entering this phase two, you know, in masks and what's, you know, what's allowed and what's not. And so I found that it was really good to get some photographers that have, you know, shot weddings in the last two weeks. I asked them some thoughts as well about kind of everything. So why don't we just introduce everyone. We can start with Rebecca Anne and then we'll go around and everybody just kind of say who you are, and then we'll kind of get into the discussion. And thanks for being here. I know is so excited today,

(01:06):

I'm Rebecca Anne of Rebecca Anne Photography, and I've been doing this a long time and I don't know what else to share.

(01:12):

And Amy, who is the, who has alluded me coming on the podcast for a long time. I've been bugging you for years

(01:18):

Purposeful. I mean, it's a little bit purposeful, but it's not at all purposeful. Yeah, so Amy Soper, it's Amelia Soper Photography, which I feel like I need to change because I introduced myself as Amelia or Amy and then people don't, they're like, Oh right, I got it. Okay. But yeah. Same deal. Like I don't w what do you want us to say? Like I was woke up in the middle of the night by three rambunctious foster kittens, and I'm on my second cup of coffee. That's that's it nutshell.

(01:48):

Perfect. And Rebecca Jane, how's it going?

(01:50):

Good. Rebecca Phillips, Rebecca Jane photography been doing this for 13 years. My husband might do this full time

(01:58):

And it's great. And I appreciate you guys all so much. I put out the call and I said, you know, we, we need some people that have, you know, shot weddings lately. And you know, like I said, we've done a couple and you guys were so gracious to kind of come on and, and we got this going real quick, so they do so much just kind of let's first off what kind of were the weddings like, and then we've all had, I'm sure. Similar stories, but different. So Rebecca Phillips, we'll start with you. And what's it been like, you know, just describe kind of what your recent weddings were like. And just so we kind of get a picture of what's going on.

(02:28):

Well, I've done two in the last few weeks. The first one was they actually moved it to a drive in movie theater. And their intent was for guests to pull up in their cars stay in their car, watch the ceremony and then stay after and watch a movie, which I thought was a really cool idea, a good way to kind of socially distance and still get everybody together and still have some kind of a celebration where there was entertainment involved, the movies. So I thought that was a cool idea. It didn't quite as planned. Most people hold up, hold camping chairs out of their car, set up, sat down masks. Weren't really worn people. Weren't really social distancing, but there was only about 15 people there. So it was a pretty small gathering and just immediate family.

(03:16):

And this was a few weeks ago, and then I did one last weekend. It was just a backyard wedding and same deal, about 15 or 20 guests. They tried the social distance, but that kind of fell out the window after a couple glasses of wine and not a lot of math going on. And they just had us come for about an hour and shoot the ceremony and, and leave. So just, those were supposed to be full 10 hour full day weddings at venues. And last minute got sort of downgraded to small elopements with just a couple of hours.

(03:54):

Gotcha. Amy, what about you?

(03:57):

So the first one I had, which was, I think maybe three weeks ago was a backyard wedding. They had planned like a 200 person wedding on the other side of the mountains and had all of their venue, vendors, everything. And then, you know, obviously everything hit and they just canceled the entire thing. And then about two weeks before the wedding, they decided they didn't want to cancel it. And instead they found a, a friend who had a beautiful backyard, who they actually said that if they had seen that backyard first, they likely would have gotten married there anyway. And then they just, basically, they got in box lunches and everybody had their own, yeah, Buck's lunch and everybody's social distance. There were probably 20 people there, 20, 25. Everybody had masks. Everybody did a really good job. I was really impressed actually camping chairs in your own section.

(05:01):

And then even when people were dancing, people were dancing, you know, with their, with their people. So, and there were a lot of healthcare workers as friends. So that probably had a lot to do with that one. And then the one last weekend was just another one that was, you know, eight hours pared down to two at a church. And again, all masks everybody did a really good job. They also had a planner, which I think who really, you know, follows the rules. So it was nice to have somebody who was like masks on same with the church. The church was really I don't want to say strict, but they were very, I mean, this is how it's going to be. And, and, and everybody wear their masks and it was good. So I've been, I think very fortunate that they've all been

(05:50):

Safe. Yeah. And that was with Brianne, who's a friend of the podcast, so it's on our wedding planner, round tables, so good connection. And Rebecca, and whether about a year, I know we were talking, you guys had a big wedding and I saw that was cause I saw your Instagram. And that's how it was like, okay, well, we got to have you come on and, you know

(06:06):

Well different than your guys's ones. So we were in a County that's in phase three, so that probably played a big difference going into it, it was going to be 50 guests and then it was going to be 50 guests spread in groups throughout the venue. And then it moved to phase three. If they were able to have 200 guests at their reception, the ceremony was only 50 guests, Catholic ceremony, and the church was spot on that. They were taking temperatures, hand sanitizer, handing out masks. Cause I do walked in collecting information, designated seating and everything. People are cleaning the bathrooms, one person at a time, they'd go sanitize after you went in. Yeah, everyone was massed except for, you know, as the wedding party and what such walked in and they may put masks on except for the bride and groom.

(06:54):

And yeah, the only thing I was a little surprised by was doing communion still that I was little surprised they did that, but they only did the bread. So and then yeah, reception, not a single mask except for the vendors. And it was, everything was outside but still full tables. They did family style meal, so to try and limit that, but even so that's still seeing me, like panicking still seems seemed like a lot of spenders had our own meals plated, which was good in that sense, but, and had a full dance floor. So we didn't enter the dance floor. We stayed on the exteriors of everything. And it was really impressed with the vendor teams and they're being massed up and careful and stuff, but yeah, it definitely felt like a normal wedding that the reception.

(07:48):

Yeah. And that was kind of a similar experience we had, we had one that was it was a, a family member. I, it was like a bride's her dad was getting remarried. So we had known the family a long time and yeah, that was a really small I think it was 10 people with know vendors and I didn't feel as nervous about the mass and stuff. I mean, we, we were masked, but I figured like, well, this is all really family, right? Like it's him, it's his daughter, you know, her husband, their child, whatever. But then the next day we had a wedding that we had gotten hired last minute, you know, within the last month to do a live stream and then you know, a video of the ceremony and reception and yeah, there wasn't, and this was two weeks ago you know, not a mask at all, except for the staff.

(08:33):

And that was interesting. And, you know, Rebecca, and you talked about that too, that it really did it when we were there. It was like, you know, the bartenders had mass and the servers had mass and we had, you know, me and my assistant had mass and then none of the guests did at all. And there was no social distancing at all. And that was where it was a little more, I don't know, just challenging for me, cause it really did kind of set up an odd, just dynamic, you know, that's just kind of an odd feeling where, you know, I, I do think that we struggle sometimes, you know, with vendors like getting vendor meals or, you know, dealing with like, you know, we've been with the, you know, the couple, all day and people getting dressed in front of us and all these different things. And now you know, we're, we're, it really did kind of feel like an odd shift. And I didn't know how comfortable I felt about that. So I didn't know if anyone else did that seem weird for you to Rebecca, with, you know, having you guys all having mass and the, and the not what, what was that kind of dynamic like?

(09:28):

Yeah, it felt, it felt very, I don't mind my daughter over here. She found my snacks for her over here. It felt very strange that we were in mass and everyone else wasn't being able to communicate with everyone was really challenging. I hadn't quite taken into account the lack of, or how much lip reading you do. So at the church talking to people, or it was like, kind of had to like pull the mask out a little almost so people could hear you better. But yeah, definitely a little strange people were not noticing it really though. They were fine with it and didn't ignore or didn't like, I don't know what the phrasing is. It didn't distract them or make them uncomfortable. So it was just like, Oh, this is what has to be done.

(10:11):

Okay. and Amy for you, I know that. So you guys all have masks at yours and I saw the photos that you had posted with Brianne too.

(10:19):

Yeah. yeah, everybody, I felt pretty safe at both, both weddings. Even, yeah, during the ceremony, the couple wasn't masked and whoever got up to do readings, it was actually a pretty long ceremony for, I guess it was four people on one side, four people. So eight, nine, 10 with the couple and then the father and then us. But when people got up to read, they took their masks off. And during the ceremony the officiant and the couple both had, they had their masks off, but all of the, their, their eight guests all had their masks on and, you know, we have our masks on. And like you were saying, like, it is tough. You kind of don't realize how much you look at people's mouths or how much you use it. Like when you're trying to just, you know, Hey, you know, or like little subtle things. So I feel like it's just a little bit of adjustments that have to be made that I don't know. I mean, it is what it is, you know?

(11:27):

Yeah. It's funny. My Matthew, if anyone knows my little assistant, Matthew was saying I, you know, he goes, I, you know, I like wearing my mask and I feel safe, but he goes, you know, people don't, they don't see me smiling now if I'm smiling at them. And I was like, Oh man, it's all about the smizing.

(11:42):

I was trying so hard to smile with my eyes all day.

(11:47):

That's funny Rebecca Phillips. So when you said that the wedding, you know, they had the couple have the best intentions, you know, through, you know, cause I think when I heard, cause you posted their site, I read about that and I was like, wow, that's a great idea. And then you said it kind of devolved out, you know, did you guys feel uncomfortable there? What was that like? Or was that just guests kind of taking their on the court or what was that process like that, you know, the evolution into that?

(12:12):

So I was the only professional vendor there. It was a drive in movie theater. It wasn't, I don't know that they had ever even done a wedding before. And I don't, I didn't really see anybody from the drive in there. So from a vendor standpoint it was just my husband and I, and we were in masks and we were social distancing. And we were being careful and we did feel a little uncomfortable once guests started to arrive in sort of congregate together and we kind of realized, okay, I don't think anybody really is being careful here. So we did feel uncomfortable, but being that it was such a small group and it was such a wide open space and we were able to stay back. We were okay with it. How did it been an indoor venue with more people?

(13:00):

I probably would have, well, I dunno. I dunno what I would have gone, honestly. I mean it's just, it's, it's an awkward situation because from a photographer standpoint, we don't want to necessarily police people and say, Hey, you know, you guys are supposed to be wearing masks. I don't know that that's necessarily our place when it comes to certain situations. But then at the same time, we're sort of documenting our own incriminating evidence of, you know, like we're documenting all of this happening and it's not supposed to be happening. So it's just kind of a tough spot to be in. Especially when it comes to taking like group formal photos, wedding, party, photos, family photos, and we're putting groups together and technically under the guidelines right now, we're not supposed to be putting groups of more than five and they have to be in the same household. So like handling that situation with a bride, who's getting married and she wants her photo with her mom and her dad and her brother and nobody lives in the same household. How do you handle that? When, you know, you don't want to tell them no, but then at the same time you don't want to create an unsafe situation and you don't want to incriminate yourself for breaking the rules, you know?

(14:16):

Yeah, absolutely. No. And I think that that's such a, there was a one of the wedding planners posted yesterday on one of the Facebook groups you're asking about this and, and enforcement and everything. And I, you know, I try to link, you know, some of the episodes, cause we just did one with venues and stuff. And somebody was like, why don't you just answer the question? Why are you trying to like plug your podcast? And I was like, well, cause it's not an easy answer. Right. It's not. And you know, I think it's really easy for you know, the, the lawmakers or whoever is coming up with these guidelines, you'd be like, well, you know, you need to, like, we're supposed to refuse, not right. I mean, I guess like today or whatever. Well, how do you, how do you tell a, you know, a couple that's getting married? Like, well, no, like I'm gonna, you know, it's, I don't know if anybody could do that. Right. Is anyone else have thoughts about that?

(15:03):

I think that with like I don't know that we can re I don't think that we have to, the way that I understood it is that we don't necessarily have to refuse service. I mean, I feel like

(15:21):

We're under the rest more of the restaurant.

(15:24):

Yeah. Because people, I mean, yeah, if you're in a restaurant you have to eat, you have to take your mask off. So yeah. I feel like it's keep your mask on, you know, when you're inside and you can't social distance, but then when you're outside and you're keeping your distance with two people say for an engagement or something I don't, you know, that's obviously something that can be done, but I think also, and I know that Rita and I don't know, maybe the rest of you to listen to the the podcast, was it last week with the town hall, which was really good, which basically just says at weddings you know, if there's no planner there and it's not a venue, then it's on the couple, that's, it's their responsibility. It's not our responsibility. So even if we are capturing it, that's not, that's not on us, it's on them.

(16:19):

We are there to police them. I feel bad for planners because that falls on them and the venue. Nobody wants to be that person. I think, as a photographer, especially, you know, we connect with our clients, we want to have fun with them. We want to be, you know we want to be amiable. And so fortunately it doesn't fall on us. I mean, it falls on our, you know, on us to stay safe in general. But I think from a legal standpoint I don't think that it's on us being extra careful, wherever, because I don't want to take any chances, you know? But you know, it's kinda what we have to do.

(17:01):

Yeah. We had the couple sign, a waiver, basically just letting them know Hey, here's what the rules say. Here's what we're recommending you do. But your sign on a way that you are of your own free will and your family and wedding party of their own free will, are grouping together in these photos. We will take them. We're not going to ask anyone to remove a mask, but basically it's just, it basically, if they're there for those family photos and that wedding party, photo scene, then they're like releasing their

(17:32):

Coming after us

(17:35):

Because it's yeah. Cause I'm in the one I remember cause we were kind of the big one that we had that was kind of whatever. Yeah, cause I'm like packing up some stuff and Matt, you know, we always, Hey, you know, go roll on, you know, they're doing like family photos and it was like any other wedding, you know? Oh, let's get bill in here and Oh, Sam, get over here. Let's get in one, you know, just like in your, like, I don't know if this is, you know, it's, I mean, it's like you said, I guess, I guess sign the waiver. Has anyone else thought about that? About having waiver signs or Amy shaking her and nodding her head?

(18:07):

Yeah. I, I wasn't there. Well a, that one wedding came on really quick and they were really great. And then I knew I had a planner for the other one. I do have one next month that I'm concerned about that I know doesn't want to wear a mat. They have a planner too, which is helpful. But I know that they are not people who want to wear a mask and that concerns me. So yeah, definitely a wedding that I would have them sign a waiver for.

(18:33):

Because you know, it's, I guess there's, you know, there's a twofold, you know, it's, it's those formal photos. And then you were talking Rebecca and too about, you know, the dancing and everything and, and you guys just where you just you're documenting that from a distance and really trying to be respectful of that.

(18:48):

Yeah. We were mostly just like on a stage above the dance floor. We did go down and get into it and it's so hard, man, when you're so used to getting in there and shooting with a wide lens. Right. And people's space, you're like, I have a long lens and this sucks. I'm not getting the photos I normally get, but just kind of explaining that to the bride from the gecko. You're not going to get the same photos that you normally get at a wedding due to COVID because we are not going to be gathering in the groups. We're going to be avoiding the center of the reception floor as well. Like amongst the tables, everything's going to be a long lens. We're not going to be doing the interaction we normally do. I mean, like you can't even smile at someone to get them to smile back with a mask on. So it's much, much different, but yeah, we would not enter the dance floor sucked, but we didn't.

(19:34):

Yeah. That's interesting. Cause yeah, I think when they were starting to do a lot of the the guidelines, I don't even know how long ago now months ago we were talking. Yeah. All the photographers or ghost will do stuff to shoot everything on the long lens. But like you said, that that totally changes that you know, that dynamic, right. Is it, has anyone else noticed that or have thoughts about that and just changing that, just kind of the photos that you're going to be able to get from, from having to be at such a distance.

(20:00):

I was fortunate. I had no dancing at the last one and the first one they were outside on a basketball court and everybody was masked while dancing and was keeping six feet. So I'm really excited to blog that one. But people were still having a good time and and I wasn't worried because of that. So yeah, ask me next month after that next wedding, because that's going to be a fun one.

(20:27):

Yeah, it was, I have the email from the from our, the second marriage and she, you know, they're, they're a little older and she had said asked me if we, she didn't want to see any mass and was wondering if I could do anything from a video standpoint, you know, like Photoshopping. And I was like, well, you know, I can tell you, there's not one photographer in the world. That's probably going to Photoshop out mass, you know? And then, then there's definitely like, I obviously you literally can't do it, but, you know has anyone else had any requests like that about, you know, not wanting to highlight that or not wanting to see that? Cause that did strike me as I'm like, well, you know, if your guests are choosing to wear them, it's, you know, I can't ask them to take them off, you know? Yeah,

(21:05):

Yeah, no, I mean, we had a conversation about still taking candidates, even if people were amassed before getting there, but they weren't. So it wasn't, I've only had my clients say that like downgrade their packages and say, well, I don't really want a bunch of photos with all my guests wearing masks, so I don't need you to stay for the reception. So

(21:26):

Yeah, it's the same thing about getting ready photos. Like I don't need pictures of someone that has matched, so getting the ready, you know, it's not, it's not the same. So skip that part.

(21:37):

That's really interesting. Can you elaborate on that? I mean, I didn't even, cause we, we just got our first, I would say like our first real big wedding, they just sent in their questionnaire last night and I was talking to one of my guys who was going to come second, shoot, just kind of figuring out stuff. And he had asked me that about getting ready and I, you know, by the time I got the thing and talked to him, like, I hadn't even thought about it last night. Right. Like I'm just sending it along. But I'm like, that is a very valid point. Right. You know, if we're out of the Airbnb and there's 10 people there or whatever, have you guys, you said, you're saying that people have said they don't want that or how is that? I mean, obviously just, you know, prepping for, you know, for stuff that's going to happen.

(22:17):

Yeah. I think that, well, so this one was the church one and they the other one they did kind of get, they got ready in different rooms. They each had one person with them. But, and it was a friend of theirs that was doing hair and makeup and they were masked. But I think that when you have professionals come in, like I know, you know, I share space with and Tim's, and cat's st John and they do they've got full PPE. They have shields and they have masks and the, the, the bride that decided she didn't want photos of her, you know, in the, in the chair basically because a there's nobody there getting ready with her. Because she didn't have a wedding party because of all of this. And like, she just didn't need somebody in a face shield, you know, pictures of that, putting lipstick on her. So, and I mean, that's totally valid, but I think that that's obviously not going to be the same for everybody. That second wedding or the first wedding I had we have a couple of getting ready photos and it's just because it was a friend of theirs and they were just, you know, mass, she wasn't professional or anything. So I don't know. I mean, with what's everyone else's thought.

(23:33):

Yeah. I hadn't even thought about that, Rebecca.

(23:36):

Yeah. Our bride shifted to just getting her dress on at the church. So we didn't go to getting ready anymore. We just, her and the girls just put the dresses on, in a library kind of room at the church.

(23:48):

Yeah. And then Rebecca Phillips, obviously you guys said that either there was no getting ready. Right.

(23:54):

We're getting ready to go. All of my June and July. Well, I had two elopements in June and I've got two in July and they've all downgraded to just, I'm gonna have us arrived when they're already ready to go take a few

(24:07):

Formal photos. That's about it.

(24:11):

Yeah. Are you guys getting a lot of downsizing of keeping dates, but Amy's nodding?

(24:17):

Yeah. Well, most of mine have moved. I think that I have, I've got this one that just booked for August, the one I'm concerned about. And then I still have two for October that haven't switched yet, but I think they're going to, and then one in September that has decided to keep that day because they live out of state. They actually both live in different States and he's in the military and they've already moved their wedding twice. So they're like, we're just going to get married in California really quick and then have a tiny ceremony or a reception in, because we're already planning on being there in September. So it really just kind of came down to the ability to we're already going to be there. They have, you know, their schedules and calendars are so specific because of, you know, what, what he does and everything that they just couldn't move it. So, but most of them have moved.

(25:16):

Yeah. It's so hard. I mean, I really did like that two weeks ago that, you know, Friday, Saturday they going in and I kind of thought like, well, I guess we're kind of starting the season now. Right. And I really did kind of think, you know, and we had, cause you know, and I'm trying to do the podcast and figure out what's relevant and I'm like, okay, are we, you know, is this what's going on? And we still talking about all this stuff. And then, you know, we've had, I think four or five more postponements, you know, just like since, you know, like whatever last weekend and now we've had you know, we've re rescheduled a wedding now that from may to October and now to next may, which is their same date, you know? So we took a really long way to get to doing that. But we are, you know, a lot of our like April's and things. So that move now to September, you know, we're rescheduling or downsizing. And so how's everyone else holding up with that? Rebecca Ann,

(26:07):

Half of our weddings have moved to next year. They just moved their date to basically their same date or that same weekend next year. The ones that have stayed are still trying to have their full wedding. There's only one that moved from may to August and they were only a 50 person wedding anyways. And then I have one couple that actually are like upgrading their package because they're still keeping their coverage for this year. They're having 50 person wedding reception in their backyard and they're still having a full blown wedding next year. So they're actually adding on like a second wedding. But most people, they want to have the whole thing. So they're either going to have all, or they're moving it. They don't want to, they don't want to downgrade or change what they originally wanted. So that's good in that sense.

(26:53):

And Rebecca Phillips, you got, you had, you know, blown out in that we both, we talked about this off, you know, before everything to either be employed in that. How are you guys, are you still have weddings? Are people still concerned? How's it going now?

(27:06):

We've had, so we've had a total of 42 weddings that have come to next year. So that's like the majority, that's about half of our weddings for the entire year that have moved. We've had a few that have just canceled altogether and just, you know, said, nevermind, we're not gonna deal with all this. Or I, you know, they may have chosen to a loop or something. And then we've had, I think seven or eight who have downsized to just small, you know, less than 30 people elopement. So we're, I mean, we're doing okay. It's been really frustrating watching all of our inventory for next year, get wiped out because that's essentially going to be a 50% decrease in income for next year as well. So we're kind of in this place where we're trying to figure out how we're going to make up for that and what we're going to do going into next year with weddings.

(28:03):

It's one of those things where we can't just create more inventory for ourselves. We can't just make more weekends. There's only so many weekends in the year. So and, and most people we've found don't want to do weekday weddings. We've had a lot of clients who have come to us and said, Hey, what's your availability like for next year? And we've sent them our calendar and they're like, Oh wow, you don't have a lot of Saturdays left. And I'm like, well, you don't have to get married on a Saturday. You can get married on a Thursday. You can get married. I mean, I've had Monday weddings, I've had weddings, all, you know, all different weekdays. And we find that a lot of people just don't, I don't know, they don't, for whatever reason they, they have to be a Saturday. So that's been really frustrating to kind of deal with the scheduling aspect of things.

(28:50):

I've been blessed in that, and that I have an associate team already like built an onboard. So actually quite a few of my weddings have moved to associates because people have to have a Saturday. And I don't have the availability to book next year and reschedules all on Saturdays. So that's been one way to kind of keep the inventory a little bit is to have the associate team, which has been nice, but that has been a downgrade because the associates are, are cheaper, but advocating.

(29:19):

Yeah. How is that? Are they, is that a compromise they're willing to take to keep that salary there? How is that? Is that just their mentality behind that, that they, that the salary is important?

(29:30):

Yep, yep. Yeah. So we have five associates right now, which has been great for moving and even, I mean, I have some associates that they don't want to take any States because they want hold not for their own brides and that's totally fine. So we've shifted between associates. And yeah, brides are just like, Hey, you're available. We can still keep the money. We can still keep the style and, Oh, Hey, we get to save a few bucks. Cause they're, they're having to navigate all this too. So it's been a good compromise for them. And that sense of, Oh, we can save some money and still get our peak date and still have that same style. So that's good.

(30:04):

Yeah. It's interesting to me how important the Saturdays are. I know they're, you know, we've, there's a couple of planners that I know are doing you know, like the weekday, like the micro weddings and I know Rebecca Grant's doing like the elevated, the low payments and all that. And you know, I think we as vendors, it is like so easy. Like we'll just get married on there. Who cares to sit there, you know, do a Tuesday, but it is like it, I mean, do you guys find that too? That it's, it really is like a nonstarter. And when people are trying to like reschedule, like maybe if they're sending you potential dates, like the ones that all get there, there'll be like, you know, four Saturdays and then like one Friday or something. And you're like, maybe try that, you know, anyone else.

(30:44):

Yeah. I I've been fortunate. A lot of mine that have moved, have moved to the same date, which means it's now either a Friday or a Sunday. So I had one move from, I think that might be your wedding to, from August to February. Yeah. Great move. That was awesome. Like a Sunday in February or something like that sounds great. So yeah. I think a lot of people don't want to, I mean, it's hard for people to show up to a wedding on a Tuesday, like it's, you know, they have to work and it's hard to ask people to fly out, you know and lose three days of work instead of a half day on a Friday or whatever. So I get that you know, I'm working with JM doing micro weddings there, you know, but yeah, I think that people just, they want what they want. They want what they had, you know, it's not fair that this all came down and it turned everything upside down and yeah, it's not fair. It's not fair to none of us like it. So it's, it's hard to ask people to, to pick a weekend or a weekday. When that's, that's not what they plan, that's not the dream. So, I mean,

(32:09):

My my wife's friend got married on the Thursday at Roche Harbor and my, the, they still complained about it and it's been like nine years ago. Like we still talk about the time that they had to take like a five day weekend. They go off to Roche Harbor for Thursday wedding. So it's definitely, that's a real struggle.

(32:27):

Did you guys you know, back to shooting the weddings that you guys had other challenges that maybe you didn't anticipate? I know, you know, like the mass thing and all that, but anything else, like, in terms of bad in terms of day of logistics, like I know, you know, and I kind of thought about it, but like, you know, we like Mike a lot of people, right. So we're like getting in with people and like even the father at the, the, we did at Catholic, whether, you know, and I'm like trying to, you know, put the mic on him and, you know, he was trying to do communion and have the mask and stuff. I mean, any other challenges that you guys didn't anticipate going into the ones that you've had so far?

(33:05):

Oh yeah. Like I tend to, you know, adjust the train and adjust the bale and things like that. And now with this, no touch closing you know, we can't do that. And, you know, I, I've been known to go up to groomsmen and pin their boot nears on them, or, you know, fix the veneers or fix the ties or you know, just make adjustments like that. And we can't do that right now. So that's been a little bit of a challenge.

(33:32):

Yeah. I mean, just the same it's, you know, adjusting a necklace or something. It's just, it's so much easier to just go do it sometimes and be like, no, no. The other note a little bit more is a little bit more it's, especially when you're now doing it with a mask on, so it's sort of a two barrier system now, which is the, the goal right. To barrier system. But but yeah, it definitely makes things a little more, a little more difficult. It's also been a little bit the, the thing that has helped me a bit is it helps me remember who people are though. Like, I can remember what your masks look like probably more than your face. So where's guy in blue mask. I need guy in blue mask. What was that guy's name? David bring me David like that I feel like has actually been a little bit helpful, but yeah, the pinning of the boot nears and the adjusting of things has, I feel like that is the most, I haven't had boot nears yet. Because I didn't have a wedding party. I haven't had a wedding party, but but yeah, I think that being able to it's that connection, right? Like it's being close to people and just being like, let me do that for ya. Just getting, do it yourself. You know,

(34:48):

Yeah. Being able to, not like I love being helpful. I can't totally be helpful anymore. I found just wearing a mask really hard to wear a mask. I had a cute one on for the ceremony and I was like, I feel lightheaded. So I switched to paper one, and then I was like, I don't feel protected anymore, but at least I can breathe. And I'm not like sweating myself silly with a mask on. I mean, that's an obvious one, but it's not fun at all.

(35:13):

I didn't have a problem breathing, but I felt like I get dehydrated. That was the thing. Like, I feel like I need double the water for some reason. Like I don't. Yeah. It's just like right through the site.

(35:25):

I almost was drinking my water through my mask.

(35:28):

Yeah. Oh yeah. Me too. Yeah. That's the thing. I think that is a I that I didn't expect cause I've worn it like to the grocery store or to the post office, but I haven't worn it for five hours straight. And then you start doing that. And I like my mask, I got a nice, comfortable sparkly pink one for weddings and it's great. Except for, yeah. For whatever reason, I feel like just, I need all the water.

(35:56):

I was going to ask about posing and things like that. You know, the I, I will say it is my dream now that filming a video that the photographer doesn't have to walk all the way up to the couple in between every shot now. Right. So it will make my life easier. But how has that gone for you know, either couples, photos or anything, I guess, besides candidates, right. Cause there's posing involved with, you know, every sort of everything else basically, except for just like candidates. So how has that gone for you guys so far and who wants to start?

(36:29):

Okay.

(36:30):

I will, I found an unexpected pro to it. So at the, the larger wedding that I had they, who all were masks dirt, well, they did group photos. They did whoever wanted to took off a mask whoever didn't want to didn't have to per the couple. And we did some while it's not super, you know, as safe as it could be. Like back to back photos with their friends instead. So they weren't like in each other's faces. And and then with with friend groups, they had like the couple and then like, like mom and dad over here and then mom and dad over here. And then it made it really easy to get like crop out separate portraits of, of families, which was kind of fun. It kind of doubles the amount of, you know, if I forget to grab that photo of, you know, mom and dad together or whatever it's right there. So and they're not touching anybody, so just prop them right out. So I found that was actually kind of helpful.

(37:41):

Okay.

(37:42):

And anyone else Rebecca am.

(37:44):

Okay.

(37:45):

Yeah. I mean, it was helped that the couple that had an engagement session so they do poses, so that really helped. But yeah, I I definitely touch like touching people and moving them and adjusting them. It just makes things so much faster. So to have to pause and be like, okay, no words, what am I asking you to do right now? So it's probably a good practice to be able to verbally dispose people, but wedding party and family photos for the most part were pretty much the same. That's not super hard. Cause everyone just sees that the first poses and falls into place afterwards. But yeah, the bride and groom was, is challenging to not be all up in there

(38:26):

That having the engagement session definitely for sure. Help for me too. Cause it was like, all right, remember this? All right, here we go. And it was just done. Done. Done. Yeah. So that was that was definitely a plus. Okay.

(38:42):

Rebecca and I, I don't want to please see here, but when, how did I, cause I saw it. You get yes. You know, Swift of water and then you guys did sunset over right. With the overlook. Did you guys all hop in the same car?

(38:55):

Yeah. They in the back, it's tough. I know. Well, I'm, I, you know, I'm not trying to, you know, I had masked something there in the back. Yeah. Out the window, head out the window. I mean, at that point we'd been with them so much and you guys kind of were like, well, I'm going to be exposed to the bride and groom. This is what it is. At least in my mind going into it, I'm like I'm going to be exposed to the bride and groom at least. I mean, it's sex that they've just hugged 200 people, but

(39:23):

Rebecca Phillips and the other w with posing or talking to guests and everything and trying to do that,

(39:30):

I just kept catching myself, walking up to the, well, in my case, I had to ride. So I was walking up to the brides and I, and I was like, I had to stop myself, wait, hold on. I can't adjust the veil and I can't adjust the train. And so like I had to instruct the other bride on like how to properly like fluff the train and you know, no, no, no about like that. Like I need you to lay it out this way. And so just being a lot more verbal in that was, you know a learning curve and we're just, we're, we're brainstorming some creative ways. We haven't had a wedding party yet. And we haven't had like any big family groupings yet. It's been mostly just parents. So we've been brainstorming some ideas of how we can sort of, you know, get creative with groupings and maybe individual portraits of each wedding party member and then collaging them together. Things like that. So

(40:26):

Yeah. I love like the bridles, you know, you do like the bridal parties and they're all, you know, on like the different rocks or whatever. Like I kinda, I kinda like all that crap, so I'm kinda, but you know, it is, it's tough. Right. It's it's having to experiment. Have you guys all been thinking about kind of brainstorming other ideas like that?

(40:45):

Yeah. I just thought about, about yeah, stitching it together to finding a, you know, a plain wall that you can then just, you know, you stand here on this X and I'm gonna stand right here and then we're just going to swap y'all out and we'll just put y'all in, but it is frustrating being in a wedding and it's, it's like any other wedding where people are like, if I hear the word, you can just Photoshop that, those words anymore. Like I might punch somebody in the face. It's the worst and people think they're so funny, but but it's hard and that comes down to us, right? Like, I mean, yeah. I mean, I guess I could do, but like, that's not what this is about, you know, and I think it's helpful to have people who are embracing this. Mmm. Instead of people that are trying to have the exact normal wedding we aren't in normal times you cannot have a normal wedding right now. Either you embrace that or maybe put it off until we can.

(41:48):

Mmm.

(41:48):

Cause yeah, it's frustrating. But I like the idea of, you know, I was thinking of Andy's photo that he had Andy Shepherd's photo of all the people on rocks, I think it was in Arizona. Which was really cool and yeah.

(42:04):

Mmm.

(42:05):

Yeah. I think that it's just space them all out and make it look cool and hope you have a space that you can do that in. Cause not all venues have a space. You can do that in.

(42:16):

Yeah. My big thing is just kind of, where's the line of how much I have to police versus allowing them to do what they're gonna do. You know, the bridal party walks in and they've been together all day that couples married that one's dating. So they've all been exposed to each other because they're married and then he's been with all the guys. And so, you know, just going, do I need to police this when they've already been together? Well, what's the point, you know, what's the point anymore. And the family's all hanging out anyways and they just fall together in a clump for photo. So you go like, where's my liability in this? What am I expected to do? When it's already been like this they've already been exposed to each other.

(42:57):

Yeah. I just, we had you know, the groom when they brought out like, cause they, they drank quite heavily and I want to do a bars service, you know, round table kind of talking about that stuff too. Cause I do think that that is, you know, paramount to kind of guide the in guest behavior throughout the night is, you know, liquor consumption and you know, all that. But you know, when they're, when they're like sharing Champaign bottles and the one guy's lighting the cigar for the other guy and then, and I'm just like, okay there, you know, I think there's a line here, but I definitely think that that's like way on the other side, you know, that I think that we can like stand next to each other, take a photo. But I don't know if both of our saliva, this need to be on the same, like cigar that we're passing around, you know, like that's where I was just like asking for it. You know, I just, at that point I am, you know, it's tough, you know, and, and you know, I know we're saying, you know, people want to have what they want to have. And it's like, I do think at that point there needs to be like a little bit more you know, control, if that makes sense.

(44:02):

Before we go cause this has been great and I really appreciate it, everybody, if I'm a, you know, if I'm someone that I'm still playing in the wedding this year. Right. And I, you know, w we're still going ahead, I just had another email coming in about the reschedule which was fantastic. What would be your advice to, you know, a couple of us planning the wedding right now, you know, something to think about, to plan about from a photographer's perspective that would be, you know, worthwhile for them. Hey, kitty, that's awesome. That was a good that a good drive by and we'll start with Rebecca and then go around. But what would be your advice to someone still planning the wedding to help make their day still successful?

(44:40):

Phil do all the things you're still getting married. Still do it, still have your first dance, still cut a cake. You know, you'd still your wedding still embrace that. And I mean, obviously you want to do it as safely as you possibly can, but don't, don't say, no, we don't want getting ready photos. Cause it's going to look drastically different because you're still going to want them. And yes, COVID sucks. But also this is, we're going to look back on this and we're going to want to see the photos from this. We're going to want to see how weddings happened and it's documenting history, really any, has it really, really sucks that your wedding is going to be hard of documenting a plan DEMEC and history. But don't just say, I don't want it just because you're kind of down of over it all happening. I say still embrace it. Still do what you can and have a blast getting married.

(45:28):

Amy, what about you? Sorry, my cat is rubbing on. It was like, we're in like an earthquake. No, it's fine. It's fine.

(45:38):

So, so like my toddler yeah, I like, I am all in on embracing it make it your day, but you know, embrace the fact that this is where we're at right now. We joked at the wedding that I had that the brides had masks that were made out of their extra pieces of their wedding dress. And I said, your kids are gonna wear the, like, this is going to be your like antique hand me down a lace mask, you know, that you're pulling out of the out of the chest in the attic grandma. Remember when grandma had these masks and it's going to be passed down even when you don't have to wear masks. Because it was this thing, you know, that their grandma and their great grandmas had it's OK. That it, that it's not, you know, it's unprecedented, you know, and either embrace that wholeheartedly.

(46:33):

And you know, like you said, you're have your family there, have your loved ones Skype with them. If you need to live stream with them, if you need to they're all there. The love is all there. Just, it's just gonna be captured a bit differently. And if you're not okay with that, there is nothing wrong with packing it up and moving it to next year. Preferably maybe a Sunday or Tuesday but, or January, but yeah, I mean, either just be aware of what's going on and be aware of the safety of yourself and the safety of your, of your guests and your vendors.

(47:18):

Yeah. Vendors, please. I, Rebecca Phillips something about you.

(47:24):

I think the health and the safety of your friends, family, your loved ones

(47:30):

Is, is very important. And I think if you, my advice to couples right now who are planning their wedding and planning to still go forward is to take that seriously. And, and really you know, think about ways to make sure that you're keeping your loved ones and your vendors safe. And at the end of the day, you're still getting married. You're still having a beautiful wedding. You are getting married during a pandemic, so yes, things are going to look a little different. And yes, there are some things that are a little frustrating, but you know, if you want to still go forward with your wedding, I say, you know, do it, enjoy it. You know, if you decide to downsize a little bit, maybe take that extra money and use it somewhere else, you know, really cool, have a big fancy honeymoon or have a big party next year, or buy a bigger house or, you know just embrace it and sort of, you know, look for the positives in it. Or, you know, there's nothing wrong with postponing the next year we've been sort of encouraging our couples who are questioning whether or not they want to get married and deal with all these we've been encouraging them. You know, if you're feeling unsure about this, let's look at next year.

(48:43):

Yeah. It's tough. I know we just had one of the Dorothy's good friends was planned to get married in October and they decided to postpone like months ago now. And I remember at the time that I was, you know, just kind of talking about Dorothy and I was like, God, you know, cause I was going to film it. And I was like, ah, you know a lot of my couples are moving to, you know, October and what's going on and you know, are they jumping the gun? Whatever. And now, I mean, I don't know. Now the October ones are moving and they seem smart and saw, I don't know. Yeah. I think if you're on the fence or worried, or if you have, you know, elder guests or, you know, like their parents are older, you know, like my mom and stuff and it's, you know, you gotta be careful about that. So you gotta think about everybody and people flying across the country and everything else, so

(49:27):

Stuff. Okay.

(49:28):

And do it now before all the dates get booked up.

(49:32):

I know, I feel it's going to be really rough next year getting dates. So

(49:39):

I had someone email me last night and say, Hey, we're thinking about moving. What do we have left for next year? Not a lot, not a lot. So, so do it now. I'm still open. So you can just send them all this way.

(49:57):

Thank you guys so much. Any other thoughts before we go before I, before I cut this off,

(50:04):

I heard a lot of it.

(50:05):

You guys are great. Let's just do say goodbye or say anything you want it we'll put websites, but you know, plug away Rebecca and, and we'll go around

(50:15):

Rebecca Anne Photographer, Seattle Wedding Photographer, specializing in capturing your most authentic moments in the most natural way?

(50:23):

Yes. Natural. Yes. And Amy go for it.

(50:27):

Yeah.

(50:29):

What do you say right now? Right. I mean, I can tell you that that I do give discounts for for people love their pets and their weddings, so or your engagement. So yeah, so for photography and yeah. Woodinville also, you also get a discount for Woodinville. So,

(50:49):

And the Rebecca Phillips,

(50:51):

Rebecca Jane Photography's sometimes mistaken for Rebecca Anne. I am in the southbound. I focus a lot on like, and stay safe and stay healthy

(51:10):

And and say hi to Alex too.

(51:13):

I feel like I’m only here because like Rebecca Ellison, wasn't available.

(51:19):

Don't tell anyone. Thank you guys so much again. If you know, I, I liked the idea of tackling, you know, topics as they come along in this new podcast forum. If you are someone listening and you do have a topic for a specific vendor type, you can go to www.bestmadevideos.com/survey, and it's all organized by vendor type. And then that'll kind of give us an idea of where the, you know, if we want to start tackling some other subjects hopefully it won't be all COVID talk forever, but at least right now it is I checked with Dorothy and she said, it's okay, it's still top of mind. So we're still okay to talk about it. So thank you guys again. And I hope everybody stays safe and thanks. Have a good one.

Episode 5 - Wedding DJ Roundtable

(00:00:07):

Well, thank you guys so much for joining us today. We have quite the Motley crew and I think it's going to be a good one. This was really important to me early on to really talk to, you know, some DJs and MCs. I was talking with Beaux before we were recording that, you know, even now I I'm getting contacted to do these Skype weddings and online weddings and virtual stuff. And you still need someone that's, you know, guiding the the direction and kind of, you know, talking about the flow. And so I had reached out to Alan, who is actually my own personal DJ, if no one didn't know that I wanted my own my wedding. And I said, Alan, I think we need to put together a really good round table to kind of tackle this issue. And so we came up with this, so thank you guys so much. But why don't we start with you and say hi, and then we'll kind of go around and introduce yourself.

(00:00:51):

Yeah, man, I'm Gumbeaux. I'm the owner of Magnolia Rhapsody, DJ. We've been around, this is our eighth year. I've been deejaying for about 22 years. And absolutely love the wedding industry and doing weddings

(00:01:04):

And Greg

(00:01:06):

I'm, Greg Lowder with Affairs to Remember entertainment. I've been doing this more than 20 years in Seattle and, and weddings, probably 80% of my business. So it's, it's something that I have a passion for and I love, and I miss right now.

(00:01:20):

And Alan, what about you?

(00:01:22):

Thanks a bunch for, including me Reid. Alan Chitlik is my name, Puget Sound DJ is my company. And I've been doing this for a little more than 10 years and just really still passionate about it. Still love the weddings

(00:01:35):

As a first off. I did just kind of want to do a general check-in right now, just to kind of see how everyone's doing. We just had our August 29th postpone today. So obviously that's still very much in, in the mindsets of Alan, let's start with you just kind of how's everything going then. We'll loop back circle around.

(00:01:51):

I'm surviving. Haven't had a wedding yet. I got three in July still. Most of my weddings should postpone so next year, so I still get to work with the couples and I'm looking forward to that, but it is surreal to be waking up in the summer and not have that. Oh man, what weddings do I have this weekend?

(00:02:13):

And Greg, what about you?

(00:02:14):

Yeah. interestingly enough, my next wedding is August 1st, which was the last time I booked, I just booked it a few weeks ago. So everything else is pushed back. It's kind of the last year

(00:02:27):

And belt.

(00:02:29):

Yeah, kind of the same. We have a one couple that's holding on for August 10th and we're going to do that, but that's my next event. And yeah, everything's been pushed back. We've done a lot of rescheduling and very few cancellations, which has been great, but it is, it is very surreal to wake up in this moment and not have a bunch of client prep to do

(00:02:48):

So I guess the easiest way to start with this. And there's a lot of different ways that we can kind of guide the conversation, but, you know, I know, you know, people think of weddings and DJs, if they think of receptions. What about you guys? Are you anticipating, is going to change the most about how you guys do your, your work? You know, is it ceremony, reception, just, what's the first thing that comes to mind when we're talking about, you know, COVID and weddings in 2020 and beyond, and being the wedding DJ, and both, maybe we can start with you.

(00:03:16):

I think that it's all going to boil down to how things play out in the next phases. We're obviously going to have some rules that we need to follow and I think it's going to be different, but I think if you've got a solid DJ and a good MC that can host and truly run the event that way it will be different, but I think people are going to be starving so much for celebration when the thing gets kicked back up, like they're really going to be excited to just be anywhere and out with family and friends. So I do agree that I think that it is going to change, but it's nothing that can't be handled.

(00:03:48):

Greg, what about you? What comes to mind? Yeah, I mean, I think the obvious thing was it hasn't been addressed by the, by the governor's office is the dancing end of things, which, which seems that way. For most people, we would read a lot of online posts, rides kind of freaking out, you know, what should I do with my DJ? Yeah, I'm not worried about that. I mean, I I've had two or three weddings a year, every year for the last 10 years that have had no dancing by choice. And the, and the couple, a couple of had done, like, you know, the Brian they'd want to do a first dance or, or, you know, they don't think people will dancer or whatever the case may be. And those are the ones that a, I remember the most about. I can tell you every detail of every one of those ones. And there are two also the ones that I put the most work into. So I'm not afraid of it. I think it's something we can have fun with. You know what, it's not about unpacking a big, long list of, of games or different things that we've all done before. Those, those certainly can be part of it. It's about talking to that couple and, and, you know, seeing what, what they want to do. And and also, you know, keeping in mind the safety end of things.

(00:04:59):

Yeah. I think to continue on with what Greg was just saying, for me, it's going to be a comprehensive approach and it starts with that conversation with the couples, you know, what is your philosophy? How strongly do you want to be promoting safety protocols and things like that. And then it's really almost a rethinking of everything that's done at a wedding. You know, when you think about the ceremony, you probably are going to be seeming people further apart. And you know, maybe you don't walk people in as pairs if they are strangers in their wedding party and every single step, every single thing that you do from that point on, I think, needs to be considered. And sometimes you might say, well, they're going to be coming to all the events and they're comfortable with each other. So we'll do that. But in other cases you might say, here's the new processional and that's going to be just one by one. Yeah,

(00:05:56):

Yeah. Have you guys, it might be just

(00:05:58):

In terms of booking with dates and everything, have you guys had real serious conversations with your couples yet about, okay. So I see some shaking heads are nodding heads. So Alan, let's start with you then and we'll circle back the other way. What, what conversations have been had with, with the couples that you guys have so far? Why is that three planning meetings? So far further, my July meeting for my, our July weddings and literally we're going through everything and trying to figure it out. In one case, the weddings downsize significantly, they're 31 people total 29 guests and the couple. And then they're going to try and do a bigger celebration next year at the bride's family house. But we've gone through step by step and tried to talk about that. The ceremony being a little bit different the grand entrance is going to be potentially different. Buffets are definitely different. And I guess one piece of advice I'd have, I'm not a caterer, but if I was a couple of getting married, I would chat with my caterer to try to get a second table set up. Cause I think most of the solution now is staff that's going to serve. Right. And if you've got 150 people, now they're just going on one side of the table. So you really want two tables then. So that 75 people can go on each side and that will, you're talking about a buffet. Yeah. Okay.

(00:07:21):

Yeah. The Buffini has really worried me. I mean, that's a totally separate like episode that we need to have with food people, but I mean, it is like, that's a terrifying

(00:07:30):

I dunno, I dunno how you handle that. I think the, the caterers are on top of this. They have to be, that's like their complete livelihood. Right. But I think their solution is going to be, to have people on the other side of the table serving, right. So do you want some mashed potatoes here, some green beans or whatever. But because you're now just, well, the guests are job just on one side of the table. That's been cut the time and, or that's going to double the time for a meal and just from a flow standpoint, that can be hard to accommodate. So definitely I would, if I were a couple, I'd want to chat with my caterer, but for us, and I'm sure Bo and Brad are thinking about this to toast is a big deal with microphones. Like you just don't want to be handing the microphone off between toast. You want to figure out a solution for that. Some people are putting a disposable tops onto the mix and switching them between speakers. I am probably going to go to a system where I have the mic on the stand and just to have the speakers, not touch it at all, just come up and speak into it piece of tape on the ground and, and give them a spot to stand on to. And I think that will make me popular with videographers. So the people giving the toast well. Oh yeah.

(00:08:56):

Well, the interesting thing about that I've been thinking about, and I haven't experimented with it too much, but if you, if you think about the mix that we're, we all use all the, all the time, they're generally mikes that are right up in people's faces and when you get the person who's moving it all around and you're trying to adjust the gain, you know, but what really right now you're about what eight, 10 inches from your mic.

(00:09:17):

Yeah. I'm pretty close, but I mean, I'm, I'm, you know, doing it for broadcast. I mean, I think you could sure.

(00:09:22):

Yeah, totally. But think of most of our mikes are the style. That would be a personal mic that would be within eight to 10 inches or three inches or one inch from your face. So now we're talking about trying to move them to three feet off. And I don't know if all the mikes do that. At least I have our setup as a game structure for that. Now, luckily some of the Sennheiser wireless, you can, you can boost a little bit, but now you're opening yourself up to more feedback and Mike placement is going to be, you know, huge thing. So it's just this thing that it all flows downhill, you know, from this is an issue of this initiative. So it might be different getting a whole different type of mic or at least the capsule that the part you're talking to.

(00:10:06):

But what have you guys been talking about with your couples?

(00:10:08):

So we have absolutely just kind of reconfigured the whole thing, starting from the ceremony and how we would stagger things and keep people different different links apart from each other, how we would do the actual ceremony itself, how we would move people and make sure that they're maintaining social distancing. The first thing I'm doing with my clients from top to bottom is just managing their expectations and giving them comfort. And that we do have a plan and we do an offer these different things to do and just giving them a set of options. And then moving forward to build on what the other guys were saying with toast. We've actually decided that me and the other guys have been practicing this separately, but what we're doing is we are going to use the foam thing, but we're going to put around or a stand wherever we decide to do the toast and I'll have a bag of those foam things.

(00:10:57):

And the assistant will actually change out and sanitize each time. And just to make sure everyone sees it and knows what's going on. I think that's going to be part of it too, is letting showing people that you are taking the extra steps necessary to not only socially distance, but to make sure that everybody's taken care of we'll get into the dance party later. But yeah, just reconfiguring and talking to all of our clients about these are some suggestions that we have that we can do this. And once we get through those set of suggestions, everybody's going to have a different opinion about that and just managing it so that they, they get what they want, but they also realize that we were working in covert area.

(00:11:36):

Yeah, it's so tough. I mean, and even, cause I obviously do a lot of the podcasts from here now, and then I do a lot of when I do my blogs, I do a lot of blogging by voice and then I just like transcribe it and like I all the time see, you know, dry, just whatever on the monitor, right from just me standing here talking and whatever. And so it's, that definitely is something that I don't, you know, I don't even know people are, you know, people are thinking like dancing and stuff, but even like if I got to put like a microphone in someone's pocket for the ceremony or holding the mic for the toast, I mean, that's, you know, all these different touching points that I do think, you know, obviously not everyone is putting all the, you know, the thought behind

(00:12:15):

And to, to add on that to build on what those guys were saying about dinner, depending on mobile buffet or whatever style it may be. I always do personal dismissal, so I'll have my assistant and the assistant could socially distance and stay away. But then you can maintain control of the crowd only letting a certain amount go at a time. So when there's not a run on the buffet or anything like that, but I do think the, the idea of the caterers handing out the food that way, we'll probably, we'll probably go. But also it's important to remember guys to, you know, before all this is going on to contact all of the vendors, that's the first point of attack and see what their plan is and then adjust your style and what you need to do so that everyone stays safe.

(00:12:56):

Yeah,

(00:12:56):

Yeah. It's crazy. I was on the Wippa call yesterday. They were doing like the state of the wedding, you know, I've done like four of them now. And it was the, you know, they just have a bunch of planners from all over the country and they were even talking, you know, they were talking about flipping the rooms, you know, from ceremony to reception and having to, you know, sanitize all that stuff. And even like rentals, they were talking about having like a clean rental truck that would bring stuff and then have a separate, like dirty truck that would pick stuff up. And it's crazy, you know, just, and obviously the, you know, this is outside of our scope, but just, you know, the thoughts that's going on with kind of all this stuff is just truly remarkable. And that each, I think it's so important to do these round tables and to get feedback from people like you, you know, from each vendor type, just cause it's, so you have your own million different things that you think about at the wedding and it's different than whatever, you know, everyone has their own kind of whatever.

(00:13:49):

So what are you guys anticipating being some of the biggest challenges this year? I know that was another question that I had on there. And then me besides just obviously everything, but like what, what are some things that are still really worrying you personally, and maybe Greg, we could start with you on this one.

(00:14:03):

I'd say two things, the number one, and just as you were saying this oftentimes we're asked to pull, you know, if you go back to you know, me deejaying, Mormon stake dances back in the day, you know, and I'm you know, asked to police the dance floor, I believe the quote was you need to keep the two with the book of Mormon between the boys and the girls sort of thing. Right. And so I just like, when we were talking about the buffet, if we're doing that later, I won't do that over the microphone, just as a dismissal. I, if I get to play a game to dismiss people like trivia or something like that, to have the guests compete, to see who goes next, I like to do that sort of stuff. But if like both said, I will go around and individually just miss tables if I have to.

(00:14:52):

But along that I don't want to have to be the Dean's sink police. I can't do that. It's one of the reasons I don't like dismissing tables just because it makes half the room hate me. And, and it's, and it's not me personally, it's just later in the night, it means that they're not going to be as, you know, come up and make a request or they're going to, you know, kind of be a little bit, you know, it's not big deal, but, but people hold them grudge. Sometimes they'll come up and give you crap. And sometimes be quite honest about it and serious, even though I had nothing to do with what order to dismiss tables. So I'm real want to have to go out and say, Hey, put your mask on, on the dance floor or eight, six feet. Or are you guys all in the same family unit? You know, that's not my job. So somebody and I believe this is listed out in some of the things is going to have to be a manager of that and gets to be the bad cop because it's, it's, I'm a team player totally. But that is just not, you know, I'll make announcements and I'll set it up as the MC and set expectations, but I can't be the enforcer. It just, it, it goes against everything that, as an entertainer that we're trying to do,

(00:15:57):

Are you guys really worried about that? That once kind of everything starts, it's just going to kind of be a free for all Alan. You're not in your head.

(00:16:04):

Yeah. 50 50. I think that he, half the people are just going to go for it. And half the people are gonna see that meme going around or the picture of the red blue or no red, green and yellow mass.

(00:16:17):

Well, I saw that like the wristband, right? Like how are you, how are you feeling?

(00:16:24):

Yeah. And I think some version of that, like the conversations we've all been talking about having will have to be done where people are concerned, but I get the feeling that people are just going to, you know, I don't know. I can't bring out my crystal, the law, but I get the feeling it's going to have to be, we'll just let loose and do whatever they want. And they have to, people are going to be like, I'm here, but don't come near me.

(00:16:48):

Early reports from States that have opened have shown that by the time dancing is scheduled to occur and that's alcohol is typically been consumed that all of the social distancing is going out the window. And you know, when you ask about biggest concerns, I think mine is that wedding sort of reflect right now who we are as a society. And if you go outside, you will see a real mixed bag about some people being very conservative, wearing masks, walking far apart, and you will see plenty of people doing the opposite. And I think that in an indoor facility, having both of those philosophies try to coexist is going to be challenging.

(00:17:40):

But what about, Oh, go, sorry. Go ahead, Greg. No, no, go ahead, man. You're good because I forgot what I was going to say. Oh, okay. I got

(00:17:50):

You, man. We're, we're actually talking, we're talking over a few different things, but that was a big question in our DJ meeting. The other day was, you know, how much of the enforcement that we play. And so sometimes I take a little bit of a different approach. Sometimes I'm paid to be the bad guy. And so what I do is I just coach them throughout the whole day. If you think about how we're going to have to stagger people and the different things we're going to have to use to keep people distance. Now, I'm not saying you get on a mic and yo, you got to get away from each other. But I think that if you coach them throughout the entire day, starting from ceremony and let them know that these rules are in place and we need to observe these, I, you know, I've had good experiences in the Northwest Maghreb South down in new Orleans is a little bit different.

(00:18:34):

They definitely don't like to listen to anything for anyone. But up here I've noticed that people generally will go along with the power of the mic. So I think if we take real care and just talk to our clients and our crowds and just coach them throughout the whole day, we'll see. I mean, I think Allen's right to, as alcohol is consumed, it can come into a free for all. And that's what my guys were most worried about is not so much outside, but inside you, you know, you get all these people going and they're not massed up. They're not clubbed up and they're dancing close to each other. How are we going to regulate that? And I understand the enforcement argument as well, but I think that if you speak with conviction and let people know, starting from the beginning of the day, by the time you get to the dance party, you probably can have some success. But once again, this has to be tried. We've got it. We've got to get out there and try this to see if they're going to listen.

(00:19:27):

Yeah. Cause I, Oh, sorry. I definitely see both sides of that. Cause I see, you know, where you're saying that there will be enough kind of stuff going throughout the day that build people up to the dance party. And I see what Alan's talking about too, where there'll be enough alcohol that's been done. Right. Greg, what were you going to say? I cut you off.

(00:19:43):

Oh, I liked the way Beau refers that too. It's coaching people up. I really do. And I that's what I meant by the emceeing of things, but I, that's a great way to word it. And I think if you just set those expectations and then what'll happen, what'll happen. I mean, we've all seen those nights and they're almost, I mean, sometimes are very predictable, but, but sometimes it's the, you know, I had a 35 person wanting one time out where they didn't think they were going to dance, no dance or little tiny room. I used one speaker and I'm like, do you think people would dance? And they're like, no, you know, I said, do you want him to dance? And I'm like, yeah. I said, okay. And you know, the next thing they know, it's just this huge dance party breaks out to like, you know, the Nadia songs you could imagine they were all adults. And, but that's the requests that were coming in and it's like, okay. Yeah, that's great. But you know, the expectation wasn't there going into it.

(00:20:39):

Yeah. It's we have the, I just did one of these two days ago with a bunch of venue managers and owners. And that was, we were talking about the enforcement too. And you know, they equated that. We kind of ended up equating it to you know, like alcohol policies, right? We're obviously venues have alcohol policies and you know, things, you know, rules are in place, but you know, you can't necessarily stop, you know, a mom from giving they're like slightly underage kid or, you know, someone going out to a car or someone going to the bathroom. So we kind of equated it to that where you can only educate and have a sign up, or you can only say, you know, coach so much stuff. But then at the end of the day, you know, people are going to do stuff that they're not supposed to do. Right.

(00:21:20):

Yeah. And to build on that, like P like you said, people are people, so I'm going into these hoping that coaching and these things will work throughout the day. But like I said, it's going to be one of those things where when we get into the dance party, you just kind of have to do your best to have a measure of control over it. But you can't just like start yelling at people or, you know, like, cause you're not the enforcement police, but at the same time, if you, if you coach throughout the day, I think, like I said, I've had good, good rapport with people and I'll think they'll listen to a certain degree until like Alan said, they have way too much to drink. And then we'll see what happens.

(00:21:53):

And I think historically DJs have actually liked a little bit smaller dance floor than you would think so that it gets packed. And there's a lot of energy and visually, it looks really great. But I think now probably one of the solutions here is to increase the size of the dance floor pretty significantly. So that people do have room, especially those people who are interested in social distancing, like maybe you can get on the side or get in the corner and be sort of away. I've even thought that people might want to try dancing at their tables, you know, and, and that we take the whole, the, the, the reception room as the entire dance floor, and people can kind of stay there with the people that they're there sitting with, but still get to be in that, that dance party mode to just not on their tables, not on,

(00:22:46):

I know I had a rabbi did that once she danced on top of the table, it was great. A rabbi though. You can get away with that, right? Yeah. Yeah. It was awesome.

(00:22:55):

One thing I like in terms of the dance floors and things, and I know that there was a question yesterday in the wedding group and Allen, you know, I had tagged cause they were asking about, you know, DJs and options and things for, you know, receptions, you know, with the ANSI and with limited Allen, I know you had some good ideas, you know involving things you typically do anyway, you know, introducing the couples and things like that. But are you guys discussing alternative dancing options and, and obviously like, you know, hire a juggler, but like not right. I mean, whether it's some things that you guys, you know, are, are we discussing these options and, and bringing in other stuff or incorporating the skills that you guys have, who wants to start with that one, maybe raising him,

(00:23:37):

I'm going to go. So this is kind of like the million dollar question, right? And so I'll, I'll somewhat fall on my sword here. One of the things we're implementing just right, the gate is to talk to your client. There's many different styles that they get into, but it kinda, for us, it boils down to do they want that type of attention or do they not? And so I think Alan has a great idea of dancing at the table. So what we're going to do is we're going to work closely with the client to figure out groups. So if the, if the couple really likes to dance and they're into it, we would make the couple in the wedding party group one. And then we would group the rest of the party. And since we've been coaching them all day on how to stagger, I think this will be really effective so that you can bring groups in and move them in and out consistently with group one, which would be the couple in the wedding party on the dance floor, keep them distance.

(00:24:23):

And then if you have a type of client that doesn't want that type of attention, what you can do is you can still assign the groups and, but then you can make it about, you can play different ways. You can get them into calling out each other groups have one group come up, they can call out group six. If that's what they want to do, or you can split it up like elders and youngers, you can play tracks, do a couple mixes and play tracks for the elders that they would really get down to and then bring in some more modern music for the youngers and then flip it up on them. You can also do things like play the more modern music for the elders and see how they dance. And I think it would be a fun moment to just keep everyone engaged and have them clap at their tables.

(00:25:01):

And it's not one of those things where you're demanding this, but I think that if you enter this party just with a different approach of keeping them all interested, that they're going to be moving in and out and giving them something to do, I think you'd have quite the dance party. That'll probably go for about the first hour, hour and a half. And then once they start to wear out a little bit, I think the DJs are just going to have to watch on site and see how the party moves. And I always like to invite not dismiss. So instead of asking people to leave the floor, we would want to invite them and control the environment that way. What do you guys think about that?

(00:25:36):

Yeah, I think it depends on the couple. I, I, you know, as I mentioned before, having those weddings every year that, that people don't want to dance. I mean, you know, some DJs it'd be like, Whoa, but you know, if you look at my business card, I, I, I list myself as an emcee first. So, so not dancing is in my wheelhouse and, and I, I think I'm a good DJ and nowhere near what, what Beau is and stuff like that. But, well, it's about picking out the right song at the right moment sort of thing, but for not people that don't want to dance or being prepared, if they're not going to, or there are, you show up and people that day aren't comfortable you know, people are going to be, we're going to be wearing masks for at least the next year, probably through next through 21.

(00:26:21):

So you, you to have, you know, 10 to 20 activities planned and ready to go that, that don't feature dancing. And so, you know, in a lot of it depends on the client's comfort level. A lot of it depends on, on who the guests are and what, you know, how many kids are going to be there, you know? And, and you can really, you know, I mean, we've all seen the shoe game or the, you know, different ones like that, but it's, it's used, I, when I want to do is sit down with the couples and use those as a starting point, if I can go through the whole night and not do anything they've ever seen or exactly seen before, that's a win for me.

(00:27:00):

Hey, Hey, if the shoe game, no, I'm kidding. Yeah. That's how I was like, I've always like packed up all my audio stuff and then they're like, well, Hey, we're getting ready for the shoot game in 10 minutes. And you're like, ah, Alan and, and, you know, circle back on that. And then I do want to hear from you guys, you know, tangible things that we can do, you know, ideas that we think, you know, Bo and, and Greg like I mean, I know Bo did and Greg, you know, whether some of those ideas and things, so Alan go for it and I want to hear it. You know, if I'm, if I'm a couple of nine planning, you know, whether some things, if I'm thinking like, no, what, you know, no dancing at all right. Worst case scenario, how do we keep people entertained for three hours?

(00:27:38):

Well, I would point out that there are people who come to weddings and they don't dance even in 2019 and before. And so I like to send those people home, having had a fun, good experience. So I try to keep the whole day light and entertaining and flowing nicely and things like that. And I think this gives us the opportunity to take that philosophy and supercharger where really anything that we can do to bring out the personality of the couple or tell their story, or be engaging or entertaining, that's going to help those guests feel like they were at a legitimate, good, fun wedding. Even if dancing, you know, occurs less doesn't occur. You know, there are people of a certain generation who might hear respect and might want to run out to that dance floor, but they're going to think twice about it if it's packed and they're close to 60 or whatever.

(00:28:45):

So I mean, I that's my overall philosophy. And then I just, I think things are getting thought about, again, for me, one of the biggest activities that's gonna probably be a casualty is the anniversary dance. I really enjoy bringing all the married couples to the dance floor. And then as the dance proceeds, they form a semicircle around those couple who's been married 40 or 50 or sometimes 60 years. Well, I just don't think that in 2020, bringing a bunch of old people and squeezing them together on the dance floor is really a smart way to conduct your way. So at this point, I'm probably thinking about retooling that as something where we invite all the married couples to stand up at their seats, where they are, and then we invite them to sit down. If they've been married less than five years, if they've been married less than 10 years. So the last longest married

(00:29:42):

Couple, see

(00:29:43):

No, get some

(00:29:45):

Love. People will see them and cheer for them, but we're doing it slightly more safely.

(00:29:51):

Yeah.

(00:29:52):

And, and to build on that, that Allen would she, you know, it's possible what you could do is as you have them sit down the eldest couple, that's still standing up. They could come out to the dance floor and dance with a couple socially distant, right. And so you would still get the shine that it needs. But I agree with you, Alan. That's a big one and it's a big moment in a wedding if people are into it. And to build off of what you guys are saying, I think that that's great. There's going to be scenarios. We run into where people are going to be a little maybe not into dancing so much. They're going to be a little worried about what's going on. And like I said, with masks and all these things that are going on, keeping control of it as best you can, and just being inclusive to everyone, that's there, get them moving in and out.

(00:30:38):

And that's the approach we're taking at this time. Like I said, we're going to run these out here real soon and see, see what shakes out. And that's part of it too, is we don't know, you don't know what's going to happen. We have no idea. We've got a lot of ideas on the table and we're going to run them just like anything else, but it's definitely kind of a covert is a new day for how we're going to run the reception specifically and how we're going to approach dance parties, but offering your clients, the ability, bringing some options to the table of how you could get people moving, how you could keep people involved is going to be paramount moving forward for the success of not only the, the event itself, but just as the DJ being able to come to the table and offer options.

(00:31:18):

Yeah, I think we need to, you know, both, you mentioned this before about looking at the schedule in a new way. And, and if, if we're eliminating the the cocktail hour and, and I, I get, so, so, you know, generally speaking, most of my weddings last year were probably five to six hours sort of thing, ceremony reception. So this year, it seems like almost everybody is wanting to shorten those up. So let's say now we're at four hours with the ceremony. Maybe five is the cocktail hour is gone. And if you've got to do a turn, I don't know what we're going to do, but you know, for what I was saying before, I mean, even if they're not doing dancing, the music is still really important. And so if you see the one I have coming up in, in the schedule, they're actually going to have food available immediately after the ceremony for the entire day.

(00:32:07):

And so you can pretty much eat anytime you want, and it's kind of a food truck situation. So there'll be a little bit more come up, don't get lined, but you know, it'll be ready and, you know, there'll be snacks and things out. So it's kind of more of this, a little spread out, but I think a lot of it I'm in it. The only time I'm really going to get everybody at one spot is at the ceremony. And a friend is doing the, doing the ceremony. I'm not. And so I would never normally just, you know, suggest this, but I'm going to get up and start before the ceremony, setting the expectations. And then after the ceremony come back and literally let people know these hundred things that, you know, or whatever, 20 things that are available to do the lawn games and all that, luckily it's spread out. And then that we're going to bring people back together at certain points for the toasts or for that. But if you, if you don't set that up and you just let them go failure, they're going to go home or you're going to lose them for the whole day. So I'm going to have, like, I'm literally gonna set up in the middle of the space. And for speakers, it'll be like surround sound for the property. That'll be fun.

(00:33:18):

And the audio design is going to be really important to build off of what Allen said, like spreading things out, making sure your sound design is across all of the area that you need. And Greg that's, that's a really good idea that you're talking about. I mean, how do you, how do you manage a room flip? How do you manage these things and how that's going to go talking with your other vendors and the plan that's going to be for that is going to be really important and moving forward and staggering people. And I generally, we generally do, what's called an unplugged announcement. So I generally talk to all of our clients before we even get the ceremony started. I welcome everyone. And we do an unplugged announcement, ask everyone to turn off all electronic devices and we're working up blurbs and scripts right now to try out so that we let people know right upfront what the expectations are going to be throughout the entire day.

(00:34:03):

And then just to reinforce that through every single moment, guys, we're going to, you know, we're going to have to stagger everything. Weddings are going to slow down to a certain degree. Things are gonna move differently and it's going to move just a little slower. And I think if you have good planning upfront, you've got great communication with your couple in the vendors. It'll, it'll be interesting to say the least, but I think it can be done not only professionally, but still be inclusive in a lot of fun for everybody. That's going to be there.

(00:34:29):

Yeah. It's going to be different. And I think it would be fun. And, you know, you know, quote unquote, the new normal, you know, people might like this sort of stuff and, and you know, go incorporate it in the future. I mean, before, you know, there was a time where you'd mentioned the quote unquote, a game and people would be, you know, freaking out and, and now it's like, let's, you know, let's call it an activity. Yeah.

(00:34:55):

I think this is also a time where a good MC is going to have even more, a greater impact on your event because the positivity that you can bring about the way you communicate, what's going to happen. Ladies, gentlemen, here's, what's going on tonight. We're going to sit in this way so that we can all be safe. And later on, we're going to have some sort of dancing and here's going to be how we're going to do it, you know? And, and, and in a, in a way that just gives them that information and helps them participate in it safely, but not go back to them. The more men nagging. Okay. Now everybody, when you get to the dance floor, you

(00:35:39):

And I don't want to see anybody without their mask. It's like, literally, I think people are going to go home if, if that's the tone that they're hearing. Yeah. Charlie Brown's teacher. Absolutely. [inaudible]

(00:35:52):

No it's. And I think you guys in, like you said and especially all you guys, you know, besides being DJs, you know, like you said, our MC is, you know, kind of first and foremost, or at least, you know, an equal kind of part. And like you said, just that communication. And I think, you know, with, you know, we're talking about like timelines and stuff. I think a lot of us, like, you know, if I got a timeline from, for like a reception, from a planner, a DJ, you know, six months ago, I think he probably could have just like glance it over and toss through that. Right. Like it's all kind of run of the mill. Like, we're kind of like, okay, yeah, we're going to eat. And then we're going to whatever. And like you said, I think, you know, really slowing down the weddings and really, you know, figuring out stuff.

(00:36:27):

I just think it's going to be so important to have, you know, an MC you know, someone that can really guide that, you know, and just, I, you know, and not obviously that you ever want to see weddings without like a videographer or a DJ, but I think the couples that maybe thought, well, we don't need that before. Are definitely, hopefully gonna reconsider that now as someone to do this, thinking that, you know, they are, I guarantee most couples are not doing this. You know, all of these thoughts that you guys are putting in,

(00:36:53):

You know, Alan, you had a great post. I think it was yesterday answering a bride that was wondering whether or not she needed to have a DJ at all. And I, I really liked your comment. And part of it was that it's not only is it the coaching that we've been talking about and tone and things like that, but being informative and letting people know what's going on and communicating with the other vendors, making sure that everybody understands where they need to be and how things are going to go. I was talking to read about this earlier. I have several comments every year about, well, we only really need you for the reception. And my first question is as well, are you going to have the ceremony mix? And almost 100% of the time they said, well, I didn't even think about that.

(00:37:35):

So our job is to educate and entertain, but having a solid MC and a solid DJ there to make sure that the day is flowing smooth and to give direction and let people know what's going on. I think that if I think Greg said this, if they have no direction, if it just goes, like people are gonna do what they're going to do, they're just going to mill about and do everything. But if you've got someone there that's solid, that's engaging with people and enforcing it with the music and the selections. I think it will be pretty successful. Yeah. I agree.

(00:38:04):

Yeah. I remember one of the first weddings I ever did a long time ago, we were doing like a walk pre venue walkthrough. It was a pretty big wedding. And so I had gone, you know, we don't, I don't normally do a lot. It was a videographer. And I remember it was actually Al we did have it Safeco and we were excited and we realized that I didn't even put two and two together. Anyway, we were sitting there and they were talking about you know, having like some food out for people or where the food was going to be when the people came in. Cause they were moving people. It was at Safeco, they were moving them from, you know, downstairs to upstairs or whatever. And the planner or someone was saying, you know, cause I had never gone to one of these and she's like, people, not that you want to save, like guests are kind of dumb sometimes, right?

(00:38:47):

Like you really need to educate them and really like walk them through. Cause we all just assume everyone's going to know what's going on all the time. And it's like, this is all second nature. But like you said, people don't and if you have stuff spread out or stuff, staggered, I mean, I did the wedding a couple of years ago and they didn't have a DJ and we went out to go do photos, like family photos and the guests, they thought everything was done. They didn't know when they told them that dinner was coming and all this stuff. And you know, it was like a 65% wedding. And we came back in and there was 25 people because everyone just, and you would think like, well, that's crazy. How would that ever happen? But you know, if you don't know what's going on and it's, you know, the afternoon, you think, okay, well we're done, you know,

(00:39:28):

The interesting thing, I think this year along those Seinfeld things read, it will be I'm about, hopefully October is really busy, so everybody pushed back and it's about an equal split between for the rest of the year, the ones that are currently scheduled between ones with the coordinator and ones without. And it will be a very interesting, I mean, I'm already learning stuff from what the coordinators are doing and you know, that dirty truck, clean truck thing, who to thought of that, you know? And, but, but some of that is kind of, I mean, we can take inspiration and, and, and things like that, but I think it's gonna be really interesting. And it always has been this way about whether and what we, as, as DJs and MCs. And we're talking about schedules where our job and where, where our role for each event, you know, will be different from the week before or the day before or something like that.

(00:40:17):

So it's like, what can we learn from those events where, you know, there's, it's at a hotel and there is a coordinator, you know, so it's like, there's all these different levels. And then we're just the MC and just the DJ or mine that they farm in the middle of the country where, you know, pretty much me and the mom, I'm going to make 99% of the decisions the day, the, of course, ahead of time, it will be the planning and stuff. So it's like, you gotta really think about, you know, like you were talking about that post from the bride, she's gotta think about what type of wedding she has, you know, and where who's going to be there and what levels. And she doesn't want to do it at her wedding, you know? So it's the preparation.

(00:40:59):

Yeah. Managing those expectations up front and making sure. And once again, you guys have a lot of options too, just offering them options and bringing things to the table. So you can open up that, that path to discussion. And that's going to wind up being very paramount in how these things move forward. I was looking at the DJ is kind of the backbone of the timeline. Even if we've got a coordinator, not generally the MC is enforcing and just talking to people about what's going on. And at that point sorry, my daughter just, I forgot to lock the door. I'm playing with fire. They're playing with

(00:41:33):

She's the same age as your twins are now 14 year olds.

(00:41:42):

Yeah. My hats off to you, sir.

(00:41:44):

Ah, so when finished where your fare to shift that bow?

(00:41:47):

Mmm.

(00:41:47):

I actually forgot where I was. Oh, just communicating with the client and managing the expectations of what type of day we're going to have. And who's going to be there generally speaking, you know, they'll, they'll have a good grasp of the immediate family and things like that. And they know their friends pretty well of who they're inviting. So if you've got like a, a Rawkus kind of younger group that definitely wants to dance and party, just bringing options to the table of how to deal with that. And then like Alan and Greg said for the people that don't want to dance, making sure you have something in place that is all inclusive and everyone's being kind of attended to so that they leave the event going, wow. You know, even in these situations, like we had an amazing time and it was dealt with professionally and on the face of it and just the heart of the wedding wound up being just about them and their friends and family.

(00:42:36):

Yeah. I agree.

(00:42:37):

So we've I want to, so we've got the, you know, the, the kind of the reworking anniversary dance, right. Kind of doing you know, I know Alan in the, in the comments and the posts you had talked about doing either the personalized entrances and things that you normally do, can we brainstorm some other ideas like that? You know, brides and grooms, whoever listening you know, Greg was calling them activities or whatever, like whether some other kinds of things that you guys have been thinking about in terms to kind of enhance that reception,

(00:43:07):

I'll give you a simple one that, that I like to do. And in the past that I think will work well for this as kind of a, this is for my, my, my friend announced friend, Peter, Mary, and he wrote a book called the best wedding reception ever. And this is one of the ideas from there. And it's one of those really? Yeah. Alan's got a cup. You, it there you go. Perfect. They does that have my sticker on it. Oh, okay. Good inside joke. Sorry. But no, so, so one of the things that people are out there cables, and so the last few years we've seen a lot of these where people will fill out like a best wishes card or different things to the table, and those will become really popular things. And one of Peter's ideas was for each table to be responsible for an anniversary card to the couple. So you get, and they can kind of put some thought into which table would be fun. I mean, how amazing would it be? I just had my 20th wedding anniversary. And if we had, we did not do this at my wedding, but thank you if we had done this.

(00:44:14):

So she has a number. Yeah. And so if grandma had filled out a card to us for our 20th wedding anniversary, who is not with us anymore, and I'm opening that up and I won't remember who filled it out. I mean, can you imagine for a dollar 99 and a pen, the power of that. And so if you put one of those at every table and do you know your one and two and five, and I've seen different levels and different things you can do with this, it's one of those things where those people that aren't dancing or aren't participating can, can do those things. And maybe you want to have two or three different things like that. They're already on the table, they're ready to go. And man, a bang for your buck on that. One is about as big as anything I've ever seen.

(00:44:59):

Nice. I like that one a lot. And that's when he said that's totally socially distant. Doesn't involve, you know, seeing when you have clean pens or whatever. Right. You're all fencing. Yeah. Al what do you got? So I think a great one. If you've got a team that can help, this is some sort of video presentation some sort of love story that maybe involves photos of one of the members of the Coppell growing up, the other member of the couple growing up, and then the two of them together. You know, if you've got a good videographer, they could potentially help you with that. A good, no, I know some good videographers that put the link in a post or a, you know, even a a photographer can often help with this if it's mostly photos. Certainly, I mean, my standards are I, I prefer to play it once, not have it be on a loop.

(00:46:03):

And I prefer to have it at a spot where it's going to have some emotional impact, right? Like maybe after dinner, but prior to PTOs or prior to their first dance where it, it just helps everybody feel like the wedding that they're at is the culmination of these two people's lives and their relationship. You set that to some good music. And I think that can have a, a, a great impact or, or a good voiceover or a good voiceover. I can put you in touch with a good MC if you're interested, if you know someone with a good voice. Yes. That's true, Greg.

(00:46:40):

Well, I've done that where you've recorded ahead of time and you come up, you know, much like the love stories that we do live, where you do do that. And, and it, you know, it's, it's hard to do it. You've got to have a couple with a, with a good story, but you know, it can just be, there was, you know, I can't be like retelling don't stop believing. But when you all just heard that in your head, no, slap the small town boy, so, alright, Bo, you're up.

(00:47:09):

I'm going to take a different approach. What we're looking at is possibly doing custom sets for them. So getting down to what they're really into, and if they're not into dancing so much like that, figuring out friends and relatives that are really, really close to them and offering like figuring out what their first dance was and kind of moving them in and out with the couple and having kind of these curated spotlights of these moments to kind of remind everyone of why they're there that day and having these, once again, it's kind of going off the anniversary dance, but just doing an extended version of that. That'll help with some of the pictures and having that moment and just keeping everybody focused on that part of the day and then just curating the mix so that even if they're not going to dance so much, they may come to me and say, and I have had this happen where they don't necessarily want to dance, but there's some very specific things that they like and creatively coming up with ways to mix that in so that they can re relive those moments in that, in that moment.

(00:48:08):

Be really fun.

(00:48:11):

Yeah. That's great.

(00:48:12):

Yeah. I think I T I had a, I had a wonderful follow up question to that. Oh yeah. Cause you definitely don't want to have, we don't want to scare, I mean, you want people to be aware, right. And you want people to be knowledgeable, but you don't want like, everyone, like like afraid to move, right. Like locked down, like we're, we're standing outside somewhere or we're here. I'm like, okay, I don't want it, but you know, you want people to still interact with each other and be, be responsible. So I do think like we said, a million times already on this podcast, but I think, you know, the communication and setting those expectations. Cause I do, I am afraid, like we're going to go to the one and it's going to be like, you know, people were just frozen in fear. And so, you know, and I'm, I'm a little scared. I mean, I, haven't done a ton of, you know, outside of the van since all this has gone on. So

(00:48:59):

Yeah. Along those lines, like read, have you been exploring a mass that you could wear for eight hours? No. So, I mean, I ordered a whole bunch of the other day, cause it's still a couple I've been wearing, you know, so I do all the grocery store shopping for the family, you know, and I'll get that little line of sweat and it's like, I couldn't, you know, so it's like, I've just ordered like six different brands and trying to find, you know, whether I need the filter or don't need the filter. And I just, you know, maybe it means I get a trade off. We also can't have ugly ones while we're deejaying. So it's like, so anyway, I think that's something that we'll have to play with. I've been talking, you know, if you have that little plastic valve thing, that's usually just fake. You don't want to touch the mic to that. Right. So it's like, I've been, I don't think I'll wear it for eight hours at home, but you know, maybe one, one, you know, whatever one we have, we're going to have to have two or three of them because they're going to get sweaty and loading in loading out half the venues now are saying we're gonna have to wear them to load in and load out.

(00:50:02):

We we did the same thing, Greg, we we ordered a bunch of different styles. Like I tried out a silk one, which was really great. It was breathable, but it didn't have any of the, you know, like I said, the fake shelter or anything like that. And that one, I was looking at more to use during the dance party. And I'm talking with the venues now and with couples too, that we're going to Institute like a six foot space around the table. And so how we would handle requests and things like that as my assistant would probably have a music stand or something that they can go to and fill it out. And then the, the assistant, we can check it as we go throughout the party. But also having the proper mass for that and making sure that, you know, people aren't getting super overheated and those things, cause it's not going to be as comfortable, but having one, you know, switching up masks is something I think we're definitely going to have to do. During the party I'm looking at wearing that silkworm where I'm only going to have to be dealing with myself at the decks, but if I've got to move around or deal, deal with anything else, I'm definitely going to have something that's not ugly. As you said that's a little, little more protection

(00:51:07):

Yup. To, to build on what Bo was saying. I think all DJs are thinking about how are you going to take requests? Here's mine I'm going to invite, I'm going to put these on tables of couples. Want me to, and basically guests can ask dots the.dj into a browser, any browser on their phone and make requests. And then that will come up, live on my DJ program. So I'll see that right on my computer screen. And some people are like trying to give out their phone, their cell phones, but I just don't like that. Look of the DJ going like this. Even if it was very legitimate, they're taking requests. I just don't want to be the guy who's on my cell phone. So that's how I'm handling that. But I all DJs are thinking about it for sure. Yeah.

(00:52:01):

Yeah. That's a great point. Cause you had put that in the notes. One of the questions to talk about how, and I was thinking, well, how are handling? But yeah. Cause otherwise you got the whole, like, you know that they're, you know, and that's, you know, I don't like getting that close to you. Even

(00:52:16):

Guests sometimes want to hold their phone up to you, but if they have to do it from 16 or like here,

(00:52:24):

Yeah. I remember doing high school dances at Camelback high school back in the day, up in McCall Tio. And they were always in the lunchroom. And so we'd get there early and we'd put up those big old, you know, kind of you know, fold up lunch tables that are kind of picnic benches sort of thing. And we'd create like a barrier around us. So they couldn't come in front of us. They couldn't come on the site. It was like safety. And back then we were mainly worried about, you know, people maybe snag it as a CD or, or just getting in your face or whatever. Cause of course it always happens once and you'd put the table and you put a pad of paper out there and people would make their requests and you can come and look at it and it's going to have to be something not so obvious.

(00:53:08):

I, I want Alan for, I liked your idea for the, for your program and for doing that. I, I think I'll give out my Google voice number. I said that Google just popped up on my phone. I'm sorry. That was fine. And then I can, and then if you use Google voice, if you're on wifi, at least it'll come up on my, on my computer so I can get her on the phone. And I know what you're saying about it. I usually actually have my phone on a little tripod on the, up there anyway for shooting video and stuff. So I won't look like I'm texting Alan asking him what he's playing.

(00:53:50):

What are you guys doing today? Yeah. How's it going? A quitter

(00:53:55):

One last thing I want to touch on before we go. Cause you guys have been so gracious with your time. We've obviously probably hit on a lot of these things anyway, but with a lot of the smaller weddings that are coming up and I know Alan, this was something else you had noted. Just the importance that you guys see the difference, you know, with doing something smaller. You know, I think a lot of you guys work with your couples a lot to, you know, like we talked about educate, but figuring out a game plan, how do you see that role? You know, cause obviously we're not going to have these big, huge blowouts for a long time. So where do you guys see? Or if I was someone that was planning the smaller wedding, didn't think we were going to need a DJ or an MC or whatever, you know, I just kind of want to do one go around talking about that. Does that make sense?

(00:54:36):

Sure. Okay. Alan, go for it. I think with a smaller wedding, it still is important to have somebody who's going to help that couple set a tone for them. So from an MC standpoint, you w you as a couple, want to make sure that your philosophies are being communicated by your MC and then you want some people that can bring some creativity to it. Like, you know, I've heard Bo and Greg both have some great ideas today. And so that's what I would look for if I was shopping for a DJ, even in a small, you know, 30 person wedding.

(00:55:13):

Yeah. I don't think you can. The size doesn't matter. Matter of fact, some of my more difficult weddings have been the smaller ones and difficult isn't excuse me. I think a better word I should say is challenging and you know, stairs to a DJ is challenging. It's not the end of the world, but it's, it's something that I, you know, you don't back away from a challenge. It's fun. But I do think if you're talking to somebody and, and just because it went from a hundred to 35 or, you know, 150 down to 75, it's irrelevant. But I, if you notice, as Allen said, we've all come up with these good ideas. And some of these are just off the top of our head. Some of the things we've done before the best are ones we haven't even done yet. And so if your DJ that you're talking to, isn't one that's going to want to, I mean, I don't know about you guys, but most of my time is spent in preparation, you know, probably double the time as of the day of, you know, and so if the DJ is not going to be up for that and, and, and wants to talk to you and stuff, you know, I would probably move on and look at, you know, in, in, in Seattle area, you know, 95% of the DJs or do this as a side hustle and there's nothing wrong with that.

(00:56:26):

We've all been there and there's something like that. But if they don't have the time or their business owner, doesn't have the time to sit down and talk with you at 10 o'clock in the morning. And maybe you're not a priority for them. And you're just another gig and they're just going to, you know, and this is not a time you can go through that. This is not just another gig. This is all new, we're inventing, reinventing the wheel here. And that's something that you need to hire a professional. That'll help you do that.

(00:56:54):

Oh man. I, I absolutely agree the separations in the preparation, right? Absolutely. It's, it's going to be the people who just start from top to bottom with the client and really pay attention to what's going on and managing their expectations. They're not going to know all of the things that you're going to have access to as far as the vendors that you've talked to planners, all of those things. So being able to effectively communicate those things and let people know what the expectations of the venue are. Just all of those things and putting those things down and just a step by step way that they're still getting and maintaining the wedding that they want, but we are managing their expectations in this environment.

(00:57:34):

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's, it's definitely gonna separate, you know, that you definitely want to have people that are, are putting the thought in, you know, and I just, you know, I know we all do weddings all the time with, you know, with planners without, or with certain vendors that are, you know, we all go through everything. Right. but I do think, yeah, if I was a couple and I was planning something and I would definitely want to make sure that everyone that was involved was putting in, you know, at least a small percentage of the thought that I think you guys are doing, because I do think it's, it can be really scary. And if people, you know, liabilities and stuff, and just, I think people, you know, you want to make sure that the people are taking the right precautions

(00:58:13):

And yeah. Have fun. And to build on what Alan and Greg was saying, you know, the, at this point managing the day and managing people and making sure that things are watching is where the MC portion is going to really become paramount. It's going to be important that you talk to everyone. So not only following through with the client, but on the execution of the day of making sure that everyone knows what's going on. And I think once again, if you coach them, we should have a pretty successful event that can be fun for everyone. And people can walk away from it going, even in this environment, we still had an amazing time.

(00:58:52):

This has been great. You guys have been so gracious with your time and coming on, you know, like we said, you know, the town on the Thursday kinda, you know, making the time to do this. I know Greg's got a lot of educational stuff today. He's taken part in as well with Allen and you guys are busy with kids and lots of stuff. So I really appreciate everyone taking the time. I just want to do one final, just a last thoughts, everything I'll put everyone's, you know, information and, you know, the websites and everything, but let's start with Bo and go around. Cause I do want to give Alan the last word today. So let's

(00:59:22):

Just, you know, any last thoughts, any last, anything before we go?

(00:59:25):

Yeah, definitely just a I'm DJ gumbo with Magnolia Rhapsody and anything you guys need just call us, but everyone take care out there and make sure that, that as we move through these things that you be flexible in this environment, make sure that you're listening to your clients, make sure that you're listening to the crowd. And remember that you are there to backbone that day and crush it,

(00:59:51):

Greg. Yeah. I mean, this is every time I go to Safeway, all I hear on the the you know, recording over and over every time it is, you know, we're all in this together and it's a bunch of voices and it's like, to me, I'm looking around for a drink cause that's part of a drinking game, right? I mean, it's like, you gotta take a shot every time, but we are, and it's a cliche and it's something in you. You're putting together a team of vendors. And you know, here we are, you know, three competitors, but we're all good friends. We've all hung out. We've all done stuff. We've all learned things together. And we would all come to the aid of the other person. And so it's something where if you're putting together a team of vendors I had one pop up on my Facebook today from, from a wedding from two years ago. And it was this just amazing team that I would try to put together every week, but as a, as a, as a bride or groom or, or, or parents, or help them put together a wedding, you have this opportunity. And when people refer somebody to you or give you an idea, it's not just cause you know, they like that person. It's because they're easy to work with and they're a team player and it's about it's about working together to make it best. And it's about your day. And that's what

(01:01:15):

Well said, sorry, Alan, take us home. Well to two thoughts, one, I think what we've learned so far in this era is that all the professions are thinking through what they need to do for their couples. So the caterers are thinking through and reinventing their processes, the rental companies, as you described, or thinking through there's DJ certainly are. And I hope as a couple, you both appreciate that and look for that, right? Like have that conversation with your vendors or if you're shopping for vendors, make sure you hear from those folks what, what they're doing and that they align with your values and what you're looking for. And then secondly, if you are having a wedding in 2020, it can absolutely be fun, right? Like it's, it's, it's it's been a challenging year for every single couple, whether they're going ahead, whether they're postponing, whether they're doing significant changes to their guest list. But once you

(01:02:20):

Get to that wedding day, it can still be fun. It can be everything that you wanted a can, it can be the story of your relationship. And, and I hope that folks have such great weddings.

(01:02:34):

Perfect. Thank you guys so much again. I'll bet. Yup.

(01:02:38):

Yeah. I'm sorry, Alan. I got to build on there man. Cause that's a great comment. Hold on. That's great. People are gonna want to celebrate. I know everybody's worried right now. And there is cause for concern, but like Alan and Greg were saying, we're going to be bringing the, in my opinion, the primary function of a DJ is to bring people together. And this age it has to be socially distanced. I understand that, but people are going to be wanting to celebrate and be around their friends and family. And I think that's going to be a big chunk of the work for us as long as we do our professional job and take care of our clients and our vendors, the people that we're with in the venues. I think it's, it's gonna wind up being a smashing success.

(01:03:17):

Perfect. Well, thank you guys again so much. It's, it's so important to have these conversations and, and touch on, you know, with all the different vendors and everything. So I thank you guys so much. Again, if you have a question for a future episode, if we want to talk to some different vendors, you can go to www.bestmadevideos.com/survey, and that we have everything kind of organized. If you're a bride, groom, vendor, anyone listening, and you have questions about the vendor type, go fill one out and we can put together those around table. Thank you guys again. And I hope everyone stays safe.

(01:03:49):

Thanks Reid. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks.

Episode 4 - Wedding Venue Roundtable

(00:07):

Well, I just want to thank everybody for taking the time today to get this set up. We were gonna record last week and I think it's almost better that we waited till today because of you know, some major announcements coming out on Friday with the governor, you know announcing kind of some new regulations involving phase two and a lot of the different counties. And so I'm really glad I've assembled. What I think is a really great round table, kind of a, of a bunch of venues you know, up North all the way down South, and then we have saltines with kind of the restaurant aspect as well. So I just thought it was a bunch of good voices to kind of bring on today to do this venue round table. So Kellie, we'll start with you cause you're kind of where I'm looking at this. I don't know how it looks for everybody else, but let's start with Kellie, introduce yourself and tell us who you are and then we'll go around.

(00:56):

Hi, I'm Kellie Blair and I'm the manager of Historic 1625, which is a wedding and event venue in Tacoma

(01:03):

And Kimi. What about you?

(01:05):

My name's Kimi Chadwick. I own Craven Farm, we are also a wedding and event venue.

(01:13):

Rebecca I'm, Rebecca Venturi. I'm the director of catering here at Salty's on Alki, which is also a restaurant concept. And we have a private event space at sea level.

(01:27):

Hi, I'm Briana and I'm the owner, the new owner of Orting Manor.

(01:33):

Perfect. And so it's just, I think it's great that, you know, there's so much going on you know, with, with rules and regulations and everything. And so at first off I just kind of wanted to do a general check-in you know, it's well, I guess it's Tuesday now, today. How's everyone doing just in terms of like the news and you know, with you know, dealing with guys, how's everyone feeling right now and Briana, we can start with you and circle back the other way.

(01:59):

Sure. it's definitely been an interesting time, especially just getting into business in December late December. So I'm actually kind of glad in some ways that this is happening so early in my own career just because I haven't even had time to like adjust to venue ownership. So like curve ball being thrown I'm already dealing with all the curve balls of just being in a new industry. So it's kind of okay. But definitely weird.

(02:28):

And Rebecca, how are you guys doing?

(02:31):

Oh, we're actually in the process of getting things to the point where we can re be open later. This was well at the end of the month actually. But this week we're in the process of cleaning everything up, getting things up to speed in terms of the new guidelines that are in place. So that's what we're working on right now. But for the most part, the majority of us haven't been in the building or the whole time that this has been going on.

(03:00):

So since March, so it's been different. And Kimi, how are you guys hold up?

(03:05):

Yep. We're, we're doing okay. We obviously haven't been able to have any weddings, just like the rest of you. Our first wedding was supposed to be in April. And it looks like now with the new guidelines coming out, hopefully our first one will be July 19th. Other than that our first one will be about mid August. But we were pretty well well booked for the summer. So it's been, it's been an interesting ride.

(03:35):

Hey Kellie, how are you guys doing?

(03:37):

We're doing okay. I've still been working full time during all of this, which I think just keeping our routine has been kind of nice, but I think even with zero events going on, I think juggling all the emotions and all the conflicts is almost made it feel like double full time. And with each announcement, I feel like it always brings kind of a big wave of emails and calls and questions and everything. So just kind of preparing with each new change in new announcement, how to adjust to it and then go from there business wise.

(04:07):

Yeah, I guess you know, where everyone here is. I, you know, and I know Kellie, we've talked a lot kind of, you know, just off offline too, about, you know, dealing with lots of different, you know, postponements and cancellations and stuff. What has been the most challenging thing for each of you guys, you know, just through this whole process, is he dealing with the clients? Is it trying to get, you know, the building up to, you know, some semblance of, of safety precautions, what is kind of the biggest takeaway from that? And we can start with Kellie and kind of circle back around.

(04:36):

I think the biggest challenge, I mean, we're an all indoor venue and so we book our calendar year round and so we're booked every weekend. And so just juggling the amount of events we have and the limited availability has been one struggle. Just from our end personally, I think another one is, you know, there's days I'm calling 10 plus clients and having these difficult conversations and just getting, you know, mentally and emotionally kind of beat up call after call. And so I think not only having those difficult conversations with, you know, these couples and their families about their wedding, but also just that work life balance, I think is something in our industry. We always struggle with is finding that work life balance. I don't think it exists, but even more so with this, like added no emotional and mental load, that's been, I think a personal challenge for me kind of outside of the office is like, how do I not take this, you know, emotion or feeling home that I've ruined someone's wedding? Or they, you know, think this about me or stuff like that. I think that's something I've struggled with.

(05:37):

Kimi what about you?

(05:38):

Yeah, I can totally agree with everything that Kellie said. Yeah, just taking the time to be able to listen to our clients and kind of get the whole picture cause COVID affected all of us and it's all that in, in different ways and from client to client it's different. And so I have also struggled not taking all of that personally. And then as far as trying to figure out what to do with, with moving things early on, we had set policies in place as to how we would go about doing that, so that that helped guide some of the conversations, which, which helped. But yeah, it's been been a lot and, and completely unexpected just like for everybody else and Rebecca

(06:33):

And yeah, much of the same. I sort of, you know, when we weren't able to access our building because of the implications that were placed on the restaurants, in addition. So just trying to work from home and navigate that the emotional element as well. And you really can't at that point when you're working from home, leave work at home, when that's where you now work, I've got a toddler as well. So I am now a stay at home working mom but you know, taking the phone calls, but also learning like legal jargon that I'd never really explored, like a force majeure. We have one in our contract that I didn't know much about it until this happened. So just learning how to re navigate our industry is a lot of what I was doing.

(07:25):

I mean, you ladies have pretty much said it. It's definitely a, it's been hard to be the bad guy. I wish I could reschedule everyone for free to the perfect day in 20, 21 or 2021, Literally impossible. So that's been challenging and yeah, like I have a toddler too, so

(07:44):

That's tough.

(07:46):

Yeah. I mean, I think that, and, and can we, you were mentioning too, you know, I think early on we all kind of, you know, like whatever policy in place or kind of like, this is what it was going to be. And then as things have just continued to go on and on, it's like, well, how, you know, like I talked with you know, some photographers and they're like, you know, we were doing you know, all reschedules, you know, whatever you want. And then, you know, after a month or two, then you're like, Oh no, like maybe we actually like, can't do that right now. How do we like you know, reel that back in or whatever. Have you guys, has anyone kind of experienced that too? Just kind of having to like really change that mindset.

(08:23):

Yeah. I think with like each announcement, just trying to be fluid and think of timeline, but I think another thing is like each vendor type everyone's doing it differently. And so it's hard to kind of explain, like, let's say a couple of calls their caterer first or their photographer first and they call you, and they're just expecting that you're going to do the same thing that other vendors doing. Then you're having like a conversation that they weren't prepared for. And that's something I wish everyone could do, you know, everything the same. I mean, that's never going to happen, but just kind of explaining your decision process and why you're doing things that you'd like things, the way you are is something I came across a lot because you know, so many different vendors are doing things differently.

(09:01):

Yeah. Do you guys feel like people were really coming to you with like a list of options or asking you about things? Or how did that, how did that kind of conversation go when people were trying to figure out what to do? Maybe Kimi, do you have any pets?

(09:18):

Yeah. you know, it really, it really depended on the personality types and what they were going through personally and then all their family input into things. So some, some had done research before and assumed, you know, as a venue, I would be making the same decisions as maybe what they had read on social media. Whereas it doesn't really fit with our business model to be able to do what another business is doing. Or sometimes they would expect me as a venue owner to be able to do things the way that like a photographer or a makeup person would be able to do or a florist. But really when we're running a venue, you know, we still have all these costs all year long. So our decisions are really they're based on something totally different because we have all those costs going out continually and it's not like I'm also a florist. So like my flour costs, that's not coming out year round. That's just when I actually have an event. So there's, there's that balance as well. And not quite knowing how much do you explain to your couples? Like, I want to be transparent and honest and upfront, but they don't really need to know, you know, exactly how all of the businesses is run. And I don't mean that in a, in a bad way. So yeah.

(10:41):

And Rebecca, you said you guys were like totally shut down, right?

(10:45):

Yeah. I mean we, to the point where we're like cleaning dust and spiderwebs, I mean, we, nobody was on the property because we really just took the entire thing very seriously. We had to because we're a restaurant first. And so there's a whole other set of implications that go on with that, you know, and we're a huge operation. So for us to even be semi-open just financially, does that make a lot of sense? But you know, to speak to sort of, you know, everyone's concerns about, you know, are they going to reopen, am I going to be able to have my wedding and postponing that sort of thing, because we're so big, I was able to give a lot of flexibility where I got the most pushback was whether or not deposits were refundable for events that we weren't even sure we weren't going to be able to have, you know, if I've got a bride whose event is in late September, I'm probably not going to be able to tell you that I can refund your deposit because I don't know if we're truly not going to be able to have your event.

(11:52):

So was having those conversations from a business perspective because, you know, we do have to protect your business first. And then obviously the human element of being is understanding as possible. It is a challenge, but we've got a lot of flexibility in postponing people. So that sort of worked to our benefit

(12:14):

And Briana, you know, you were, you kind of brought in, you know, came in, came into the venue here, and then you were thinking, you know, cause we had talked a lot, you know, we did the whole sit down interview, you know, about you taking over the venue on the, get to know your wedding pro podcast, you know, here you come in and you know, Kimi's talking about expenses all year, right. And you move in and you're like, okay, when do we actually start booking stuff? Right. What, what has that been like?

(12:36):

Oh yeah, well we definitely had a bigger remodel than planned so that, you know, that's a big expense. And then of course we have the same expenses you're around landscaping, mortgage bills, utilities, none of that changes really not having weddings. So that's definitely been a bit of a struggle, just reworking my entire business plan, right from the get go essentially to make it work because it's it's not cheap to run a venue. We're not just like charging a million dollars a weekend and there's a lot of expenses that go about our list of hosting.

(13:18):

So now that we've had this big you know, the big announcement Friday and, you know, we're kind of in this new, I guess phase two, right. King County, you know, Kellie, I guess maybe you could summarize that the best I know that you guys, you know, with the historic or just involved in you know, kind of right, we're doing the town hall on Monday to talk about everything, you know, there's still a lot of confusion going on. Do you want to speak about that or kind of where we're at now, as far as what your understanding of what the regulations are?

(13:46):

I think from like the biggest perspective, like just to summarize it and like easiest way is essentially that, you know, weddings and funerals have been looped in there as well can happen in like a nonreligious setting. And we're, our guidelines are essentially a combination of what's in place for religious gatherings and then for like dining in like restaurants and taverns. So a ceremony and reception can happen, you know, on a property together. They have to happen together if you're doing both. And then just the guidelines have to be followed for, you know, religious gatherings and restaurant gathering. So it's a huge step just because it kind of ups the capacity because right now in phase two, we would be at, I think five people is what was originally announced for gatherings. And like for our venue, our legal capacity is just over 400.

(14:33):

So we're now functioning at a hundred capacity, which is huge. I mean, there's obviously, you know, some restrictions and guidelines and just trying to come through what was announced and, you know, that came right going into the weekend. So I didn't fully look at it until, you know, yesterday tried to, you know, pop wall champagne celebrate Friday and then kind of getting through the nitty gritty of it on Monday. And so still trying to understand myself and what do we have to do in order to have a wedding, you know, who's responsible for what? And just kind of figuring out those things. So,

(15:01):

Yeah. And so I guess my biggest question and anyone that wants to take this on, but w you know, once that came about, you know, my feeling when I heard you know, a lot of these you know, we're signing the things we're doing, the petitions, all these things, you know, like our calendar was clear, you know, as clear til middle of August, right. Except for like a couple of small, you know, we have a small gathering this weekend. And so, you know, my thought process was always like, okay, you know, the wedding set are canceled or canceled now. Right. Like, they're not. So have you guys, where were you thinking about that? Or has there been like an influx now of like, people call me like, Oh, okay. We actually can do something in the next month. I mean, I don't, because I don't know. Right. That's why you guys are on. So who wants to talk about that first and maybe raise your hand?

(15:46):

[Inaudible]

(15:47):

Well, you can go, we'll go Brianne, and then we'll go, Kellie. I've definitely been booking a lot of micro weddings, like quite a lot. So that's been really helpful. And those are all under 25 guests. So if it's, if it's seasonal out, I'm still capping at 25 part partially because of the pricing point, it needs to be that small and partially because I feel more comfortable with you know, cleanliness standards, if we have that small guest count and we're mostly outdoors, so it's pretty easy for that kind of stuff to happen. But yeah, I mean, that's been great. I've had a lot of, a lot of inquiries about those

(16:26):

Kellie. You said you had something.

(16:28):

Yeah. I think you know, engagement season kind of goes through, you know, Valentine's day kind of mid February. And I think there's a lot of couples who are engaged and just hadn't started wedding planning and COVID kind of hit, so their wedding planning's just been on hold this time. And so we're getting a lot of inquiries of people who, you know, have been engaged now for a few months and do want to get married this year. And they've just kind of been in limbo. So we're still seeing a lot of those inquiries and, you know, what's your 2020 availability or what, what can we do? You know, what, what does it look like, cooling a wedding? So we're getting a lot of those inquiries. And then also a lot of people who are like, Hey, my venue is, you know, never gonna open again, or they just shut down. There's a lot of venues who've made the decision to just kind of close the doors for awhile or, you know, for forever. And so then you're getting all those people who are now looking for a new home. So I think there's definitely a lot of new inquiries coming to fill those States that have already been postponed or canceled, which is kind of refreshing to see those come through. I'm kind of in the email inquiries.

(17:26):

Yeah.

(17:27):

Do you guys have, when, when is the first, like next not, you know, real wedding, but like more than, you know, five people, whatever. And maybe let's go around right now. When's the next one that you guys have on the books coming up and maybe we'll start with Rebecca.

(17:42):

Yeah. I think our very first one is July 19th.

(17:51):

Which they're kind of like, well, are we going to be able to do this or not, but they're still under the threshold because we're so big. And with the government's new announcement, they're going to be fine. So we're looking forward to that, that it's all of the little things between now and then we have to kind of figure out, can we still have this event? Yeah.

(18:14):

Again, can we, what about you guys?

(18:15):

Yeah. also July 19th for us there yeah, we're trying to figure out if it, if it makes sense to do. And they're trying to decide on their end, what they're comfortable with as far as the guidelines and if that's the way they want their wedding to look or not. So that'll be our first one if they decide not to do it that our first one will be August 15th.

(18:41):

Briana, what about you guys?

(18:43):

August 29th is our first full weekend wedding.

(18:46):

First of all, besides kind of this, does that. Okay. And then Kellie,

(18:51):

August 2nd is going to be our first one. We have a couple of late July. Who's kind of being in limbo and deciding right now. I'm assuming that they're probably gonna opt to kind of postpone, but August 2nd is a go, no matter what, which is exciting.

(19:03):

Have you, has anyone gotten a lot of sighs of relief now from kind of these new announcements and couples maybe that were on the fence, maybe moving into August that they feel more comfortable now?

(19:15):

Okay.

(19:15):

Definitely. I send out an email to kind of our couples that were in limbo and then August one's kind of holding like willing hope and just kind of said exciting news heading into the weekend. And one of our brides actually called me and she goes, Oh my gosh, I could cry right now. This is just what I needed. I had the worst day ever. She goes, I'm so excited. I'm going to be able to have the wedding that I wanted, you know, have the people there that I wanted. And so phone calls like that just kind of make it all work like that positive news really just had AMS ride weekend was the best phone call I could have gotten on Friday.

(19:44):

Does anyone else know this to any sense of relief now?

(19:48):

Yeah, I mean, we had, I had a significant amount of August breads that were really on the fence about whether or not they had to post on and I spoke to two my couples over the weekend and they were just like, you could hear the relief in their voices. And a lot of the questions that they were planning on asking no longer applied. So it was just like, I think a huge sort of weight lifted off of everyone's shoulders. Especially those that are, you know, we're coming up. We're like within the, the eight week threshold of the major large weddings that are coming up. So of course that's when we really have to like start nailing down all the details. So I think couples are elated. It's actually interesting. A lot of them aren't really concerned about the new guidelines having to be in place. They're just like more excited that they can just get married. So,

(20:43):

Yeah, I it's, it was tricky kind of, and we've talked obviously with a lot of couples about, you know, the postponing or not, and it's, you know, I have Dorothy and I talk about, I mean, we, we had got married at saltines in August too. Right. And so if it was, if it was, you know, outside of the middle, what we would have done, right. Because it's, it's this balance between you, you know, you have this date or you have it all set, but it's not necessarily your date. Right. Until, you know, maybe you can make a new day. I don't know. I just, it was, I I've gone back and forth. Would you guys, did you, did you sympathize with couples that were wanting to go or would you, did you just say like, Hey, maybe we just should postpone the next year. I mean, where did you guys lie? Just on versus the business versus stress kind of area of it Kimi.

(21:29):

Oh, man. Like for me personally getting married or just like yeah.

(21:35):

Cause it just, it was so tough. Right. And I mean, I don't know, like I just am kind of curious wherever else where the fallen on that. Yeah. Do you, do you keep pushing through and holding tight or do you,

(21:43):

Oh, I would have pushed through and carried on, but we also, we had a very large wedding and it wasn't necessarily what my husband and I wanted. We absolutely loved her wedding. It was great. But I, I think I probably would have pushed through and then whatever needed to happen to get married during COVID

(22:05):

Got the guest list down.

(22:06):

Yeah.

(22:10):

So I guess now that we, now that we're moving into this new phase, right. We can do weddings. I'm really curious about, you know, the safety things and maybe other concerns that you guys have venue, you know, people are having to focus on that. You know, obviously it's different for any other vendor types. So Briana, maybe we'll start with you and go around any new, you know, considerations, you know, I mean safety things with this protocol or ideas, you know, keeping everything clean and spread out. What are you guys looking at doing?

(22:38):

Yeah. Well, so aside from the obvious government mandates, I personally do not want to be liable for spreading code to anyone. So it's super important that we're going to be like sanitizing all high touch areas, hand sanitizer before the buffet of a fake, really actually making people sure. Using that before that touching stuff. So that's gonna be something that we're implementing in them. They having to hire additional staff to make sure that everything is getting cleaned. In terms of social distancing, I don't really feel like I'm going to be a hundred percent able to make sure no people are hugging or anything like that. So I'm kind of hoping that the hosts are going to be a little bit more on top of that, but anything that we can do to make sure things are staying clean and we're stopping the spread that way in terms of tables are gonna be spread further apart, seating, less people per table. And I anticipate carrying this certain 20, 20 and possibly 2021, depending on the vaccine looks like at that point.

(23:41):

Yeah. You had commented on the, on the questionnaire just about that. Right. Making sure that, you know, people need to be aware, right. That things are, you know, going to probably be this new normal for a long time.

(23:53):

Yeah. Yeah. And even if we have a vaccine and we don't know, is that going to be a hundred percent of that, of 20% of active it's something that we just have to adapt to? I think, as a society and it's, it's definitely been challenging for everyone. But I think the sooner we all just kind of accept, like things are going to be a little bit different easier. It'll be for everyone else to adapt. So yeah, that's my 2 cents

(24:17):

And Rebecca, you guys are cleaning. We can hear you guys clean it today. We were joking earlier. I ha how is it going there and what are you guys doing? Obviously there's gotta be stricter regulations, right. With, with being the restaurant and everything else.

(24:30):

Yeah. We're incredibly concerned about just maintaining first and foremost, our guests comfort level and their safety. So what we've done and this actually started happening before we completely shut down we've installed sanitation stations at every touch point. So they're like, there's a hand sanitizer machine right here. There's one in, throughout the event space. There's multiple. Before you get to the stairs, when you get to the bottom of the stairs we are temperature checking people. We, in terms of the events whether or not somebody had part of the space book or the whole thing, we're now opening up all the walls and all the doors so that they can spread out. So if you had a 50 person wedding, you now have space for 350 people we're pushing tables further apart. We're bringing in different PPE systems, you know, dividers and walls and plexiglass and things like that.

(25:28):

We're not going to be able to do buffets right away. We're just really going to have to keep everyone individual in terms of food service. Our staff will be completely covered as much as possible in terms of their touch points. So gloves and masks and guests are going to be required to wear masks until they're eating or sitting at their table. And again, to your point, Briana, I don't know how much we're going to be able to keep people apart at a wedding or a celebration, but it, you know, some of that's really going to be up to the host to, to manage their own comfort level. They know their guests better than we do and what is, and isn't comfortable for them. But yeah, we're in the process of sanitizing, the building right now. Just getting everything cleaned and ready to go for everyone. When they do come back,

(26:16):

Give what about you guys?

(26:19):

One of the interesting things that came up for us is we've, we've allowed self catering before. So the families would be essentially cooking off site and then bringing it into serve buffet style. So trying to have that conversation with couples of you're probably gonna want to change your plan and go with it caterer, maybe consider doing like a gourmet box dinner of some sort. Because I don't know that that phase are really going to be what you're going to want to be doing and also encouraging the couple nuts to take that sort of liability on themselves. Especially if the family members haven't worked in a restaurant situation and know how to handle all of those various things. So just trying to help maybe guide them in a different direction, just so that it's one less worry on their wedding day. And then trying to give good recommendations of who they could go through and just helping them to, to think differently about their wedding day and be flexible. You know, it's not, it's not going to look the way that maybe they had planned. There was something else I was thinking of as well. I think it already went out if I think of it, I'll raise my hand.

(27:37):

Yeah. So we're like we have a full time maintenance staff member, which is nice. So the building has been, you know, getting cleaned during all of this. And so we'll just be keeping it cleaned. And then from like event wise, we're just kind of looking at things and how can we control as much as we can, you know, with set up of tables and chairs and just looking at different components of the wedding schedule and how does that actually look with these guidelines and regulations? So we're just doing our part, you know, with signage and we were on the hunt for, you know, sanitizer and soap and all those fun things during COVID. So just getting everything prepared and lined up and then working closely with our partner vendors. So we don't do in house catering, but we have a list of five to choose from.

(28:15):

And so having conversations with those and just making sure we have all our bases covered and understand the rules and regulations, and who's going to kind of be implementing them and who's doing what and really just trying to understand is, okay, what, what do we have to do? And then what can we just encourage, I think is kind of what I need to get a better understanding of. And then I look forward to the day that we can actually have a staff meeting and kind of just be training and actually be preparing for events. We're getting one step closer to that. So once that happens, I'll be pretty excited.

(28:42):

Yeah. That actually segues perfectly into my next question. And I know obviously this is going to differ from venue to venue. Right. And so I want you guys to feel like you can speak, you know, for yourself and it's obviously not overlay, but, you know, in terms of that liability, right. And like we talking to you, you know, do you require people to wear a mask, the social distance? How are you guys handling that? Is that a, is that a waiver situation? Is that something that's written into something? I don't know. I mean, how am, like I said, obviously this is all individual case basis, but maybe we'll start at Kellie and circle back around, but how are you guys, or are you still kind of developing that plan?

(29:18):

We're still kind of developing plan on our end. Our owner's been on vacation, so we've been kind of touching base some, but just haven't really formalized anything. We plan on, you know, having signage and putting stuff out and like parking lots at entrance and different points in the venue. Just kind of with our expectations and kind of guidelines and what we have to kind of say. And then also to a concern of ours is

(29:41):

Just protecting the, obviously our staff and then all the vendors and stuff. They're like, that's, we want to make sure that they're all protected and then making sure, you know, the guests are in a nice, you know, setting somewhere, they feel comfortable. So we're going to do what we can. I just, it hasn't really been formalized. But we have maps to all that stuff bought ready for our staff in the venue, but we just, haven't formalized kind of what we're going to do and what things look like just yet. We will Sarah might bring in a couple of different spots.

(30:17):

I'm really excited. We I hired actually found the perfect Benny manager during COVID-19, so that's been a huge blessing for us. So she's already assembled like a binder kind of, of, of guidelines and expectations for our employees which is, has been really helpful. And then we can kind of refer back to that and just have a game plan moving forward. And then also doing signage throughout the venue. And I would expect our staff to wear a mask throughout the day. Even though our venue, most, most things will probably end up being outside, but we do have indoor spaces as well. But with those indoor spaces, we have huge barn doors on either side that we can open. So just having a nice pass through. And then I think maybe it said something about liability stuff.

(31:10):

We do have a COVID-19 waiver and release of liability form that we're having our couples sign. And that's kind of been a challenging one for some couples just because this is just all new to everybody and, you know, we're all filling it out how things are going to proceed. So just trying to walk through that with them and help them feel comfortable knowing that yes, it does in the form say that we could like cancel the wedding if we see too many interactions or whatnot, but also trying to let them know, like, we're not just gonna immediately shut things down because you hugged your mom. Like we'll, if we see things need to be kind of addressed and like, Hey, you know, we need to be following the guidelines for everybody's safety, we'll politely and kindly go and tell people that and kind of relating that back to like the other guests that's drinking too much. Like you do need to cut that person off or, you know, encourage them to stop, you know, whatever you need to do. Cause that liability does go somewhere. So just trying to walk through those steps with our couples has, has been interesting and trying to you know, sympathize then just bring it out of that legal jargon into like applicable situations.

(32:39):

So we

(32:40):

It's, I don't know who wrote our original contracts, but they were really intelligent. I think we had attorneys do it, but there's actually a clause in our contract that talks about safety precautions during a pandemic. So our couples have already your life away in agreement to that. Whether or not they understand that jargon or not, but essentially the couple is responsible for their guests behavior. And like you were saying you had mentioned a little bit about, you know, politely reminding them what they've agreed to and that we do have the right to shut the wedding down. If they're not following the guidelines, all their guidelines will be posted in accordance with the CDC recommendations. And we just expect that people are going to adhere to them and we'll have a conversation with guests as they're arriving, because everyone's going to for a while, at least there'll be temperature checks when they come into the building. So we have the opportunity to give them our, our disclaimer when they come through the doors.

(33:46):

Real quick question for Mecca. Have you had pushback on the temperature checks?

(33:53):

Not, not yet. I mean, obviously we're not quite open to the public yet, but when we've been explaining that to our couples, as they sort of navigate, well, what's my wedding gonna look like and what protocols are in place now? I haven't had one person say that they weren't okay with us doing that. Not at all. I think people are more, they just want to adhere to the guidelines so they can get, get on with it, you know?

(34:19):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We are still very much workshopping, but there would definitely be an additional clause to our contract for COVID. I love the idea of temperature checking and it was something that I wanted to do initially, but I just thought there'd be so much pushback and be really hard to organize. I might really look into that. I liked the idea of partially just because safety and also, I think it helps people, you know, you're getting checks and everyone in there, it doesn't have a fever. You're going to feel a little bit more comfortable like at the wedding in general. I mean personally and I was a guest right now. I wouldn't, I would be pretty uncomfortable. But yeah, I think we're doing a clause. We're going to be doing what we can and hoping that people are going to be in the hearing guidelines similar boat as Kimi, where we will have in our contract that if rules are being blatantly ignored, we do have the right to shut down the wedding, but that's not, I don't learn pension.

(35:21):

Yeah. It's certainly tough. We have a DJ round table coming up on Thursday, you know, well, this'll be after, you know, whatever after this is posted, but I had asked one of the DJs to be a part of it, you know, and they had said they did not feel comfortable because in, in other areas where things are open now and they know DJs that, you know, aren't telling people, you know, are kind of not, you know, unforeseen, but not, you know, it puts you in that tricky situation and they didn't feel like they would be a, you know, a positive voice about that. And so it is really tough because it puts, you know, all vendors, but especially you guys kind of cause it's, you know, it's like a party at your house, right. Except, you know, it's obviously a business and whatever. So I just, I'm really curious about that. Cause you guys really are kind of the forefront of that.

(36:14):

I know. I mean, I just, I've been like out and about public some like I went over to Eastern Washington when we were still in phase one to sell, I didn't want to do a quarantine birthday. I was like, I just need to be social. So I went out and it's just interesting to me to kind of see the level of different restaurants or different businesses and what they're doing in, and it's like the level of like, you would not know there's a pandemic going on. When you walk into a place to the like five people per table, you don't move. Like, we nicely got asked to leave from a place because we had like talked to another table and they're like, sorry, we're gonna have to ask you to leave. And I just kinda was like, Whoa, okay. Alrighty, like, sorry. So just interesting how I see the spectrum.

(36:56):

And I think just kind of how we'll kind of take control as I kind of view it as like people who are like, you know, go out to their car to drink or drink. And one of our, you know, changing sweets like underage drinking self-serving is there's only so much you can control and encourage, but I mean, we all know the rules, we all know what's going on, we're gonna do the best we can to encourage it and then not overly police it, but when it becomes an issue and it's a real concern and not only impacts the event significantly, but the safety of employees and the guests is when we kind of have to step in and have a come to Jesus moment. And I think if it's at that point, obviously everyone's going to be understanding and get it. And so I think it's just controlling the event timeline and set up how asbestos we can to encourage the behavior that needs to happen.

(37:43):

Yeah. I guess the drinking thing is probably a similar idea, right? We're honestly you guys, I mean, does anyone else agree with that or in terms of just, you know, there's some social norms, right? You need to just assume that people are kind of following the guidelines.

(37:57):

I mean, there's a huge difference between giving someone a quick hug and coughing on their face. And I think based on what I've been seeing the research has been done well, it can spread through the air. It's more likely that you're going to pick it up by touching something that someone touched, touched your face, that sort of thing. Yeah, it's definitely, it's definitely a tricky line and figuring out exactly where I want to draw that line or I feel comfortable from like a business and a public safety perspective is definitely a challenge.

(38:33):

Kellie, you, you had mentioned on the, this the little R pre whatever document that you wanted to talk about kind of postponements now are not postponed with cancellations now with you know, since we've kinda gotten past, you know, the COBIT thing and, and the idea that, you know, maybe people are, are budget conscious now, or, you know, we just had, I was telling you guys before we recorded, we just had a wedding for next August already canceled because you know, whether they wanted to deal with it or if it was a budgetary issue or whatever. So you guys still have, you had more calls like that, obviously Kellie coming in and anyone else about canceling now because of those sorts of things

(39:12):

[Inaudible]

(39:13):

Oh, I mean, I, sorry, I ask if anyone else has five add just a wave of people who are now or like we just, you know, budget just isn't, you know, we have budget for, you know, a certain amount of income we've lost her job or, you know, we just never had thought that we could do a smaller wedding now we're considering that we're seeing it more. I mean, we're definitely getting kind of like, that's the next wave of like COBIT issues that we're dealing with. And I think like we talked before, it's just really that balance between, you know, being empathetic and feeling for your couples and your clients, but also like, you know, thinking about the business and protecting the business. And that is a really tough balance. And I don't think there really is balancing that, but I think that's the whole navigating, this has been the biggest struggle.

(40:02):

It's like, my heart goes out to all our couples and it's like, I dread picking up the phone and having conversations because like, it's not going to be fun and it's difficult and it's on both ends. And but also knowing like, you know, this is a business and we can't just give away, you know, all of 20, 21 for free and just still, you know, it's, it's a struggle, but it's hard to explain that to someone who, you know, as like a person you dream of your wedding day, your whole life. And then finally, you know, you've met the person of your dreams, you're planning your wedding and then that just gets shut down. It's like, why me? Why, why? And so like trying to even reason, they're like, we're not going to reason with them and be like, sorry, it's a business. Like, you're just going to kind of add fuel to the fire. It's just every conversation, every wave of new situations, it's just, how do I find that balance? What's gonna be our business decision and really just believing in, you know, the decision that you've made standing by your decision and really just talking through it is kind of our approach, but it's a daily, I mean, I struggle with the daily, like it's awful, but it's you gotta do it.

(41:07):

Yeah. I guess maybe a better question for everyone else is how are you balancing that? You know, having to have those conversations about, you know, moving, you know, to a salary the next summer, or like, I think one of you had said earlier, you know, canceling when it was outside of the window. I think Rebecca, you had said, you know, a September wedding where, you know, we don't know if what's going to happen. How have you guys been having those conversations for, you know, things that weren't like in March when, okay. We physically can't have your wedding right now and maybe can we, we can start with you.

(41:39):

Yeah. we, my husband and I run the venue together. So we had set sat down early on during the stay at home order and kind of put together a guideline of like, if your wedding falls here, here's your options. If you're here, here's your options. And kind of addressed it month by month, depending on what was coming up and kind of followed along with the new rules and regulations. And at the beginning there was a lot of conversation with, you know, brides and August and September, and just trying to help them like, Hey, let's all take it one day at a time. Cause we don't know how it's gonna turn out. But should we get to a point where maybe you need to postpone, like, let's talk about it at this time, but it's, it's been so uncertain the whole time that it's been hard to give a direct answer, which is not fun and it's not fun for them to hear and it's stressful for us because it just, it's just an awkward situation to be in and nobody wants to be in it. So the, the conversations have been very hard. But we, we put the policy in place early on just so that we had like a, a baseline of how we were going to handle things. And that had helped a lot. So it's just a lot of phone calls and listening to different situations and, and of talking through various scenarios with each couple and then just trying to follow along with our policy.

(43:12):

And by the way, you, Briana, you guys say the F I think that the zoom flip-flops you guys venture, how have you guys been handling that?

(43:24):

Yeah, it's a, again, a huge learning curve. When we bought it and December, we really only booked five weddings for 2020. And so now I've booked a lot with, he spoke. I think one of my, my big weddings cancel and all the rest of them. So it's yeah, it's just been interesting for me. I felt like I barely know what I'm doing in the first place, you know, and then coconuts and roller. Whoa. Okay. So I can't really say I have a good answer for you to be perfectly honest.

(44:00):

That's okay. It wasn't about you, Rebecca.

(44:02):

Hi. Yeah, so, I mean, I kind of want to back it up when this all first happened. I think that we do a lot of weddings. We do 75 weddings a year small and large. And so when it first happened and I, we got ahead of it right away and we said, we understand that we don't, nobody knows what the outcome's going to be. We're all in the same situation. So if you're feeling uncomfortable, please feel free to postpone to a mutually agreeable date. If it's related to COVID-19, we'll apply your deposit. If you're canceling before we actually know whether or not we're going to be able to have your wedding, you know, your deposit is not refundable, but if we get to a point where we can't have your wedding, of course your deposits refundable. That's hard to, now that we can have weddings moving forward.

(44:54):

I think that, of course, if, if family members are still, you know, at risk and not feeling comfortable, feel free to postpone, we're still gonna honor that. But we, you know, like comedian Kellie said, we have to protect your business. And so you know, the contract still applies. And if you, you know, if you're thinking, well, I just want to cancel now because of a financial situation or whatever the case may be. That's really not covered in the contract. So we try to be as flexible as we can while still maintaining the integrity of our business. And you know, the thing about weddings versus other events is a lot of planning goes into this upfront, especially on the venue side. And our time is a valuable resource and we have to be compensated for that. So I just hope that we get a little grace in that way, because we certainly we go out of our way to help our couples to have the events that they want. And so a lot goes into and up to that point. And so a lot of times just refunding deposits isn't necessarily possible if it's outside of the terms of the contract.

(46:15):

Yeah. Cause I don't, I, you know, I know they were allowed to now, you know, it's certain regulations, but I still do fear, you know, like you guys said, just because we can't have weddings doesn't necessarily mean that everyone is going to want to come to a wedding. And I do think that some couples are still going to find that out. You know, I don't know if that's going to be easier or hard. Right. But just because you legally can have a hundred people, doesn't like, I don't know if I would, you know, we don't like we have a wedding this weekend. I think it's like 20 people or whatever. But I, you know, I don't know if I would be comfortable being in a hundred percent, whether you right now, you know, I don't, I don't know. Right. I mean, we're obviously blessed that we're not you know, compromised or, you know, anything else, like, you know, so many people are, and you know, where they have to have their own, you know, they really can't get sick or whatever, but it is challenging. Cause I do think that just because you can't have a wedding coming up doesn't necessarily mean is anyone else have any thoughts about that?

(47:08):

I mean, I think

(47:09):

People choose not to attend weddings for all different reasons, but I think like, especially now in coven, I think as a couple, I mean, obviously want to get married and, but I think you just got to learn to adapt. Like my cousin recently got married himself and his now wife, they hurry things up just for some personal health reasons. And my uncle planned like a really cool like livestream zoom wedding. And it was in New York and the church, you know, livestream the Catholic service with five people there. And then all of us hopped in zoom and you know, the newlyweds, we did a grand entrance for them. And we had like this website that we had different activities on and, you know, just adapting and still, you know, I mean, at the end of the day, it's about marrying your significant other and celebrating the people that care about.

(47:57):

And so whether you want to do it in person right now with a hundred people or yeah, you still want to do it and you want to have that first dance you want to celebrate with those. I can, but still trying to like live stream or adapt or how do you include others? I think just navigate, trying to navigate that include everyone you can, or I don't know, just looking at it and just understanding that you can adapt and change and you don't have to be, I mean, weddings aren't Trish anymore. So make your own tradition right now, your coach Christian,

(48:22):

That's an excellent plug for our live streaming videography. Thanks guys.

(48:27):

Got there. Y'all check out. Ready for live streaming.

(48:30):

No, but I, I, yeah, that is you know, there's, we actually just booked one and there's a company out of Denver that is really facilitating that, that is facilitating like the zoom. They'll coordinate that and bring everybody in and like MCs and do like whatever else. And then we're, you know, you can then they'll hire like videographers, like onsite to, you know, film the whatever. But I mean, it's actually, I, I wish I was smart enough to pick it up, but it is, but, you know, but if it works the way, you know, obviously we haven't worked with them yet, but if it works the way that they say it is actually a really nice thing where it's not just, I mean, it is a zoom chat, but it seems like it's a more elevated zoom chat with, you know, an actual like MC and like a schedule of events than just,

(49:17):

Yeah, we, yeah, we did it. And then we all, like, we did toast and we did like, you know, the YMCAs likes where everyone's dancing in their living rooms. And it was just, it was, I mean, it was an experience. And I think just being on the wedding side, it was like just enough of wedding to like, make me, like, I was like, I needed this, but it was definitely a fun experience to be a part of that. And being a wedding setting, I mean, I was in yoga pants sitting on my bed, but it was, you know, most stuff, but it was, it was about

(49:43):

Kimi. What do you think of the new normal here kind of rounding up this conversation for you?

(49:48):

Mmm,

(49:49):

Well, I definitely love it when I hear people thinking outside the box. We had even been approached

(49:54):

To do

(49:57):

Basically a, a drive in wedding. And unfortunately we weren't for long enough in the phases to feel comfortable to, to host that, but just the couple's attitude was so wonderful as far as like, you know, what we really want to get married. We still want our date. We still want our friends and family, how can we make it happen? So we had them there. So our ceremony planned to be up in our hay Mount, which is the upper portion of our barn and then all the cars in the parking lot facing them. And then we were going to do a parade on the, on the property and like hand out a box dinners and then go do a big field. Sit down dinner, just everybody's sitting like in the trunks of their cars. So this couple, which is really great on planning something out of the box and, and making the best of it and smiling and laughing and joking about all the different plans that they had. So it's been, it's fun when you can find couples that are, are willing and able to, to think in those ways.

(51:01):

Yeah. Briana, what about you?

(51:03):

I kind of try to think of it as like what's the, what's it called when the disco where everyone has headphones dancing, different music. Yeah, definitely turn this into something fun. Like the live stream, they, it can still be fun. It might not be the wedding you envisioned, but that doesn't mean you're not going to have a great time and your guests have a great time. So I mean, especially with people who are immunocompromised or older, who, you know, even if we have a vaccine next year, they might not feel comfortable with coming because it's not going to be a great outcome. We can still do those kinds of things to make it a really fun metastic wedding where you feel loved and supported. And again, the most important thing is to marry the person you're in love with. And the other stuff is really, you know, a benefit of having weddings, but isn't necessarily the most important thing.

(51:49):

And Rebecca,

(51:51):

Yeah. I mean, I think they all sort of touched on it. W you know, we are blessed that we're right on the water. So there's a lot of other things that you can do rather than dancing. There's all kinds of entertainment and people can speak out. So I think the new norm is just a sign of the times, and I've already seen people making masks and PBE part of their fashion statements. So if, you know, if it's a sign of the times that that's the way it is. I mean, if you look back at weddings in 1980, like the wedding dresses had these huge puffy sleeves, I mean, things were different. And I think it's just looking back on your photos and videos from what the times were and what was going on during that time. It was a piece of history. And I think there's something nostalgic about being able to create memories no matter what the environment circumstances are. And people in nature just want to celebrate. We're human. There's a connection there, whether it's physical or not. We celebrate each other and I don't think that that'll ever change at the true heart of what we do. People are going to find ways to celebrate. And so I don't think that part's going to change.

(53:09):

I think that's a wonderful sentiment. And as someone that when we did, we do the, we do the weekly zoom trivia, Dorothy, and I do. And I remember, I mean, this was like, you know, three months ago now, like the first time we sat down to do the zoom trivia, I thought this is the thing ever, like, I can't believe like, you know, we have like our beer and we're sitting in the dining room.

(53:30):

Yeah.

(53:30):

But now, you know, but we do it every week. Right. And it's about you know, just, I think, like you said try new things and, and begin outside the box. And I definitely think that you guys brought some good ideas and things like that too. And certainly lots of different, great venues and options, and, you know, people to work with to kind of figure all that out. So thank you guys so much today for taking time and working through, you know, rescheduling, the tech issues and stuff. We got, we got it all going. Let's do one more. Just go around to any last thoughts, any last [inaudible], anything else you want to say, Rebecca, we'll start with you and go around.

(54:07):

Yeah. We're just grateful for all of our couples. Who've been really patient with us through all of this and on all of our guests in general. We're all in this together and we're all learning as we go and things have been sort of thrown at us at a weekly basis. Things have changed and been very dynamic throughout the pandemic. And so we're just grateful for everyone who's held together and stuck with us and in patient. And I'm, I'm grateful for the grace that we've received during all of this. So thank you. And we're looking forward to celebrating with everyone next month

(54:40):

And Briana

(54:44):

Yeah, just if you're a couple who's facing all these challenges right. Out of hanging in there again, the most important thing is you're getting married to the person you love, everything else was secondary.

(54:54):

It might not be the way you envisioned, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Like we can all adapt and we can all change. And that's just part of life. Yeah. I agree with both of them.

(55:08):

I think they put it together very well. Yeah. We're definitely excited to be getting winnings going and again at the farm. And just looking forward to seeing the different ideas that people come up with and, and doing what we can to help support that. And yeah, we're just excited and thanks for you for having me on, and everyone else is great to, to visit with all of you

(55:31):

Kellie. This is the big take home.

(55:34):

I know. I mean, I think it's just nice to see her sit here and talk to other people and understand that like all, you know, kind of validate feelings and frustrations. And it's nice to know on the vendor side that we're all going through this together. And then on the couple of sides, like everyone said, just a huge appreciation to couples for, you know, being patient and hanging on their, you know, holding onto their date and having faith is going to happen and then trying to adapt. And they can. And I think to all those couples out there who are planning and just navigating COVID, I think, you know, my big advice is just have faith in your vendor team. We're all, you know, anxious to celebrate, get back to the new norm and we're going to do what we can do, you know, to make your event a safe and fun as possible. And so just relying on a team you have is going to be a huge part of your day, and we're all just itching to get back into a wedding setting. And you, I don't care if I

(56:24):

Hear the same playlist every weekend for the rest of the year. Yeah. Perfect. Well, thank you guys so much, again, this has been another episode of the Best Made Weddings® and that we have some really good conversations coming up. Like I said, a DJ round table coming up, talking about kind of reception ideas and different sorts of you know, non touchy dancing entertainment that we can do at weblogs. And I'm, I'm excited to see what what the panel comes up with. Cause luckily I don't have to think of this thing so we can just ask them and see what they say. So I'll put all your guys's information and, and truly wonderful venues everybody. And I was so appreciate you are all my first choice is to ask and I'm so glad everyone said yes and has continued my streak of having everyone I want be a part of this. So thank you guys again. Thank you.

Episode 3 - All About Livestreaming

(00:07):

Well, thank you guys so much for coming on today. We were talking a little bit off you know, kind of off-camera off microphone before we got started. This is our new Best Made Weddings® podcast. And, you know, this is really the best platform I have to keep people informed about stuff that, you know, I think are hot topics right now. And, you know, we're talking with, we just did our wedding planner round table talking about, you know, rescheduling and things. And I've seen a huge uptick uptick lately and, you know, live streaming and live streaming requests, obviously with COVID and guest counts and everything, you know, couples that still want to celebrate are trying to figure out the best way to do that. And so Adam who has been a guest on my Get to Know Your Wedding Pro® podcast, and I have been talking a lot in the last couple of weeks about, you know, how to do things the right way and the legal way. And I said, Adam, you know, I really think we need to get going on this and get some information out there to people that you know, what's the right way to do things what's illegal and what's allowed. And so I asked Adam and Adam said, we should talk to Jason as well. So why don't Adam, you start introduce yourself and then Jason, and then we can kind of get going here on what we want to talk about today.

(01:18):

Yeah. My name is Adam Tiegs, I'm a professional disc jockey. I'm also a lot of audio, video lighting and production for corporate events on the side when I'm not doing weddings and other events, but I'm also the Seattle chapter of the presence of the president for the U S district association. And we specializing is helping DJs get the insurance that they need and other resources for being the utmost of professionals

(01:47):

And Jason. Yeah, Jason Walsh out of Baltimore Washington area, I'm the president of the us disc jockey association and founder worked my way paid my way through law school deejaying. So I've been a DJ over 20 years. Kinda met, met up with Adam at one of the DJ conventions and have just kinda been working together for the last, I dunno, at least four or five years, I guess. And you know, we've got over well in a good year, we've got 900 to a thousand members this year and not being a great year because of COVID our member count is down. Obviously people aren't joining because they don't have the resources. And quite honestly, you know, we're, we're here to make a buck, but I can 100% not blame anybody right now for, for not rejoining and, and certainly appreciates you know, when they can rejoin to rejoin and, you know, not only can we provide services to DJs, we can also provide services through our, our partners to other vendors as well, like videographers.

(02:49):

Absolutely. Yeah. And, and so the reason why I wanted to bring this up today is, you know, obviously, you know, I'm a videographer, there's plenty of videographers that could speak about, you know, live streaming and, you know, the technical, whatever about all that stuff. I ultimately don't think the clients really care about that. Right. I mean, they want to know that everything's going on well, and so I don't think that it was really necessary to kind of tackle it, that aspect of it more, more so about the, you know, the music and the copyrights and the legalities, because what I think a lot of couples are going to find is, you know, trying to do these wedding ceremonies and receptions and, you know, dancing and, you know, everything else. I think we're going to find a lot of, you know, cut feeds and pulled videos and muted videos and things like that from videographers that weren't you know, necessarily doing the proper due diligence ahead of time and just to kind of set the stage.

(03:42):

So I've offered the live streaming since my wife and I got married back in 2016, so I kind of figured all of our technical stuff out, you know, that summer before. So I've had live streaming as a service on my site for four years. I think I've sold it twice. And in the last two months, I've probably had, you know, 10 to 15 different calls about it, you know, just about live streaming you know, ceremonies or whatever. And so needless to say, there is quite the you know, interest right now. So for, for people that aren't thinking about it you know, and Adam or Jason, whoever wants to start, whether, whether some things that people might not be thinking about when it comes to, you know, putting it on the live stream and some challenges that might be coming on.

(04:27):

Sure. I'll start, I guess you know, the first thing obviously is, is it legal? So is it legal? What you're doing is the video illegal, are people in attendance? Is it a public venue? So in a public venue, you don't need to get anyone's permission if you're in public where there's a no expectation of privacy you could be filmed or, or tapes or, or photographed anywhere, then there's no expectation of that privacy. If you're taking a video and someone doesn't think there's a, or no, there's a camera around and you pick up some sort of you know, someone, the camera picks up someone talking about someone else, and either they're all camera we're just nearby the camera or microphone. And that goes viral. You know, you're, you're opening yourself up now for a lawsuit because the person didn't know they were being recorded.

(05:16):

Didn't expect to, you know, show up to a 25 person events, didn't see a camera videographer, but maybe it was just because it was smaller than somebody's laptop. And now they are a viral sensation, you know, calling someone a bastard or something who knows. But you know, that, that's one thing to consider the, the the libel slander laws. So libel written and slander is spoken words that are the framing, somebody and, you know, number one, I would say that is probably your worst case scenario, the liability before you even get to the copyright laws. So copyright laws, just as important, there's their copyright you know, around music. We get into streaming, you know, your typical songs that you you've got MP3s and MP4 is up the copyrights, you know

(06:13):

Yeah,

(06:13):

Somebody wants to get paid, right? So the artists want to get paid. The royalty companies want to get paid and the production houses or publication houses. So everyone wants a piece of the pie and streaming on zoom or Skype or whatever. It doesn't necessarily get you around those, you know, Facebook and Instagram algorithms that are going to pull you down. I don't want to jump in,

(06:36):

No, I think you're heading in the right direction. My initial thought was due to these legalities and the platforms that we rely on technology wise, you know, that's something to consider is, will the live feed get polled, you know, after you've considered, you know, having everybody at your wedding sign a waiver or whatever you do to get permission for the video to be online live or even recorded. But I think that that connectivity to the internet that the technical aspect is one thing. Does the venue have hard wire, for example, we can tap into it for the only wifi, or do I have to use my 4g or five D connection, depending on what phone you have. All of these factors are, there's so many more factors to come in. My thing is you know, a lot of guests aren't able to attend, so they just want to showcase at least that ceremony part. And we thought of ways to at least display with video, the audio of what's being said, not necessarily the audio from the music and separating those two elements before for the live video that's online. That way we can avoid infringing on copyright and avoid a takedown whatsoever of that important moment that they want to share. So that's, that was my initial thought anyways.

(07:59):

So your album, your thought would be to, to not, to just use the live stream part, just for the spoken word and to cut out some of the audio stuff, but that would obviously entail having a trained professional there to kind of help, you know, you can't just put a camera up, right. And call it a day. You, you would have to have someone write feeding some of that information to the camera, to me

(08:20):

Too. It also depends on how, how important this is to the bride and groom or the family. Cause as you and I both know, as we all know,

(08:30):

Oh,

(08:30):

I can take this, this phone thing that you can barely see because of my background but, or an iPad or an hour a PC or a Mac. And it has a camera on it and the software to do everything right there. So if you just want to set that up on a cocktail table and hit, go for grandma or whoever's tuning in great, then we aren't involved as a videographer as a DJ or like that. But if they want the big production, if they want the person capturing it professionally, to be able to transmit that broadcast the DJ, that's playing all the music that the soundtrack to their event and capturing all the audio for them to be able to transmit that it's going to require a lot more, I would say, a bigger team, a lot more tech, and this is it's going to be a lot more expensive.

(09:17):

Yeah. I think it's a, it's a good way for the videographer and DJ at that point to work together. You know, a lot of times there, you know, I get videographers and this is a point of view from the DJ or videographers. That'll just come up and start plugging stuff into my equipment, which that's a hundred percent not. Right. I'm more than willing to help you out and give you an XLR output or whatever, but don't just come over to somebody's equipment and start plugging in like you own the place. You know, the DJ can, you know, like Adam said, turn down the program audio and just have, you know, the video shooting, you know, somebody coming down the aisle and then you don't have to worry about getting taken down. You might not have audio for that, that part.

(10:01):

You can, you know, I guess, you know, the live part is more important in that sense that everyone's there, you know, viewing the wedding on the production side, you can go back and you can either do whatever you have to do at that point. Right? So you can edit in royalty free music or you can you know, I'm not gonna tell you to put it in the song again or, or out of music, but it's just whatever you need to do to get the live stream going and not get taken down. One point that, that Adam did bring up, which is a good one, the notification, like I said before, of people in attendance, having just something on a stand or something in the program that says, Hey, today's video will be live streamed, you know, just gives a little extra heads up to the people though, to watch what they're saying or doing.

(10:48):

Yeah. It's, it's, it's so hard. On two points, the first, you know, about the guests releases, I know it's, and that's something that we either, we struggle with, you know, photo and video people. And, you know, I obviously have stuff, you know, in my contract that speaks to, you know, the, like the bride and groom acting as whatever, but even a lot of people would tell you, okay, well that wouldn't really, that wouldn't really pass the sniff test. You know, if it really went to, if something, you know, if, if Casha was at your wedding and then it was, you know, sold for a billion dollars or I dunno, whatever made up stuff, but like, you know, we do, you know, I think Adam Levine, the Marine five show up your way. Yeah. And started singing the music video. Right. but, but the second, and it is so frustrating with this music thing.

(11:31):

Cause I do feel like for years now, you know, it's been trying to educate clients about, okay, well, why can't we have Bruno Mars in our wedding video. Right. And why can't we have the first dance? You know, why do we have to use the licensed music? Why do we have to pay for all of that? And it's been, you know, years and years, and I know that I've lost out to weddings in the past. You know, cause people said, Oh yeah, we'll do that. It's fine. Don't worry about it. I can put that in. And so now it's like, we finally got past that hurdle and now there's this whole other question now about why I want to live stream at what's going on and not necessarily realizing now just the tremendous more amount of work that goes into that. Jason, did you have a point?

(12:09):

Yeah. So I think there's only two things that can happen, right? So you can change the laws. And they tried modernizing the laws with a music modernization act a couple of years ago. And all that really did was speak only to the digital streaming and the satellite streaming. And it didn't really do anything for internet. I mean, it really didn't do anything for Facebook or Instagram or anything like that, a Twitch, Twitter, whatever you want to throw stuff on at this point we really need something that's gonna, you know, take the industry by storm and be universal, you know, somewhat like a broadcast license. So broadcast license whatever's going on in an, a TV broadcast. You know, you're not going to get additional lawsuits because you were filming, you know, at a block party. And there was music in the background cause that's a broadcast license.

(13:02):

If you're doing this for a commercial use as a videographer, you will get sued because you know, that's something that you could have arranged ahead of time to have a agreement with you know, your, your example Casha or or, and we're in five. But even when we're in five, did their, their music video when they did sugar, that was all pretty stage. It wasn't there, there was no, there was no guessing there, right? I mean, it looked great. It made it look like we're going to hop in the car and go crash a bunch of weddings, but there was all kinds of legal stuff done ahead of time. There was all kinds of, from what I understand signs up that said you're being videotaped. Obviously you can't just throw up a stage and at, at somebody's wedding and within 90 seconds, and then you know, go shoot a music video. There was multiple takes, there was all kinds of stuff going on. So you know, a lot of stuff goes on behind the scenes that you might not be aware of and it makes it look easy. So you might think to yourself, Hey, I'm going to grab a camera. I'm going to shoot a music video like maroon five. Did I don't recommend it?

(14:08):

Yeah, I, yeah, it's just, it's so tough. And the live streaming thing, you know, and I'm guilty of it too. I mean, I remember one of the first ones we did and I just had such a terrible setup and I thought, well, I'm going to put my camera by the, you know, by the speaker. So we'll kind of pick up some of that stuff, cause I didn't have any way of course, to like hardwire anything in and you know, it's going and we're testing it and people are sitting down that, you know, and then the second the people started walking down the aisle, you know, Facebook and I, you know, I can speak to of just, you know, uploading videos. And we pay for all the licenses and everything. But every once in a while, you know, the sites don't talk to each other and we'll like, we have one that we uploaded to Facebook and never been able to post and that, you know, we have everything, I have the licenses and we have everything, but you just can't you know, sometimes the sites just don't talk to each other, but I remember that, you know, that live stream went on and you know, we were not charging, you know, a lot of money, you know?

(15:05):

And it went off and, you know, you're sitting there and trying to explain to the bride after, you know, well, you know, Facebook, what are you going to do? And I just don't think that that's an answer now when I've seen, you know, a lot of live streaming prices go anywhere from 500, $750, you know, for the ceremony, you know, $1,250 for ceremony and toast and all this stuff. And so would you guys agree, right? That there's a lot more like pressure, right. To make sure it goes, or you're doing the right thing right out. And what do you think about that?

(15:39):

Yeah. I like, I can relate to that from the audio standpoint, years ago when I was starting out, I didn't invest heavily into microphones and when microphones go bad, you do certain things like touch the antennas and hold up the receivers, you do funky things to make it work in that situation. Now I've invested in microphone technology with, with paddles and, and just a better, better technology. It's more expensive, but it's worth it. I don't worry about that anymore. I know it's gonna work. So I guess just that added pressure of having to make it work. It can add stress on you at an event like a wedding. So just making sure all that technology is gonna work. The biggest kicker in a streaming scenario is the internet connection. See hardwired connections preferred a really good wifi connection. That's attached to that hardware connections.

(16:36):

Second, the last thing you want to do is be streaming from your phone with two bars, you know, so I think that's the one thing you gotta look at is making sure you're connected if you're going to depend on it. My thing is make sure it's not your you're a hundred percent. This is the most important thing in my wedding. It should always be a secondary thing. Just because you're there to enjoy your day. You're not there to make sure the videographer gets that shot of the UTIs and at the alter. And that was what you wanted and Oh, no, it didn't go live. You know, if, if that happens, your expectations just automatically or out, out the door. So I just say not don't have too high expectations when it comes to, to streaming and and you'll be happy with the outcome,

(17:28):

Jason. Yeah. There's, I mean, there's certainly some things you can do to mitigate those problems. Like Adam said, hard wire connection or like a super, you know, I four G or five G connection. That's certainly helps things. You know, definitely I think you can make some good choices ahead of time by not holding ceremony at 10 o'clock on a Sunday morning when all the other churches are trying to have their services. You know, because you know, the bandwidth started going to be a problem. Like we said before, if it's on Facebook or social media, making sure you don't have that copper music in it making sure you have redundancy. So making sure if you've got someone, you know, video, if you have a VA, a videographer there not only are they live streaming it, but hopefully they've got a they've got a, a, a, a USB or a smart card in, so they're, they're capturing, you know, backup too.

(18:24):

So it's not just a live stream. And there are plenty of good pieces of equipment. It's hard to get equipment. Now that's the other problem. So if you don't already own the equipment, good luck because it is difficult to get, I do a lot of streaming for my church. Before all this happened, we actually purchased a system called sling studio. So we use slang and it's really, really great. I mean, it's literally a box. It looks like a microphone transmitter that connects to your, you know, any HD my connection. So you can be, you can have up to, I think, five connections or 10 connections, and you can have multiple angles and, and you've got just one you know, Apple life you use an iPad, you can use an iMac and, and or MacBook pro and just kind of, you know, select your shots real time. And it, it shoots right to Facebook or YouTube and really a great piece of equipment, but it's only as good, like Adam says as that connection. So once you lose connection, you've got to start the whole thing over, and then you've sent out the link or you, you know, you gotta get people to log back off and then read log in and it gets complicated. So once you're, once you've got the connection, do everything you can to save it and not screw it up.

(19:42):

Yeah. And also that equipment is not cheap. I mean, I know that we were looking at air, we not looked. I mean, I ordered you know, and we're waiting on, cause like you said, everything's on back order, but you know, some stuff to help you know, with the mobile hotspotting, you know, but that was like $3,000, you know, stuff to get, to be able to, you know, hopefully right. Hopefully improve those, you know, cell phone connections and, you know, be able to work with the wifi and stuff. You know, I think they call it like cellular bonding or whatever.

(20:10):

Yeah. I was just going to bring that up. Darren, the guests that was going to be on today that isn't joining us has invested in a deck and it's a bonded modem that has multiple cell chips in it. And you granted, you pay a lot for the data. It's very expensive. You can't just get an unlimited plan. Cause you're actually getting service from at and T Verizon T-Mobile, et cetera, whatever chips you put in it. And not only is it an expensive piece of gear that I wouldn't be able to invest in as a DJ. But that is thing that would give you a good wireless connection more than just a hotspot or a cell phone.

(20:53):

Yeah, it's really meant. I mean, that's something that's meant for broadcast use, so it's gotta be 100% on for that broadcast or that's in the field. So if your client is really looking to do something like that, then you connect with someone like Darren who has the capability and rent him for the day I rent the unit for the day. You know, the one good thing, I guess if there's any good thing, there's not really many good things about this, but at least some of your friends are going to be available for your events because not everyone's booked so much right now or are not booked at all. So you can help employ other people in the industry by tagging up with someone that has the equipment backing up with someone that knows how to do video and then stick and try to stay in your swim lane. So you can bring as many people into the game. Let's not try to upsell everything and do it ourselves. Let's try to get the professionals that know what they're doing to do those things instead of you know, if I got a wedding today and they wanted a huge light show in the photo booth and, and video recording or live streaming, I could do those things or I can try to employ four or five other people.

(22:00):

Yeah. It's just I just don't think you know, I, I think the difference of, you know, putting the cell phone up and, you know, recording whatever, and then, you know, putting together this, you know, production, I just don't think that it's connected with a lot of the, you know, the couples that I've talked to about, about doing that kind of stuff and just, you know, even having to educate on that. I mean, I know that you know, there's a lot of different, you know vendor types of all kinds that are quick to act, you know, on lots of, Oh yeah, I can do that. Oh yeah, I can do that. And I just fear that a lot of the people that are saying yes to this are not necessarily equipped for that. And Adam is now on the top gun aircraft

(22:42):

Got to love these backgrounds. Right. Thanks zoom. Yeah. But I mean,

(22:48):

You know what I'm saying though? Just, you know, the difference between it's just such a leap right. To, to make that next step.

(22:57):

Yeah, definitely. I'm just trying to change my background.

(23:03):

There you go. You're in Seattle

(23:04):

So I can do Mario or,

(23:07):

Oh, I love the Mario. That's great. Sam said, what do you got? You can, you can't do it. You're you're completely, you're normal back. Yeah.

(23:15):

I have the normal, I have my my Intercontinental foam tallow belt.

(23:21):

Oh, okay.

(23:23):

So I guess the big thing, and the reason why I wanted to

(23:26):

Morris is a Baltimore city. Oh my God. Where's Waldo.

(23:30):

Cool.

(23:32):

This is great for the audio portion of the podcast. Okay. Oh, you guys. Alright. Sorry. Okay. Sorry to distract you. We love you. Okay. is that Westborough

(23:47):

Well as John wick? Oh, I never saw that. Okay. Back, back, back to back to real stuff. The reason why, I guess the reason why I wanted to bring you guys on today besides the entertainment this morning was you know, so I personally believe that for, for a lot of situations, the live streaming probably is not necessary. And I am a videographer saying that. I mean, I'm just saying, you know, the work that it's gonna take to do that versus you know, record the ceremony, do an expedited edit, you know, the night after, or, you know, be able to, like, if you get married on the Saturday day, videographer can go home, put, you know, a nice little, 10 minute thing together for the ceremony, all that, you know, send it out Sunday. I think that is going to be more worthwhile for a lot of couples and to have them be able to focus on, you know, actually capturing everything and the rest of the day. But if, if live streaming is important, you know, not having your feed, you that, you know, th the music copyright that sort of thing, besides obviously the other technical stuff what are some options and whether some of the best options or scenarios you've seen, you know, I've, I've been trying to do a lot of like unlisted YouTube links, or I'm working with things, whether some things that you guys have seen that have worked, and whether there's some things that have not worked and Jason, maybe you could start.

(25:17):

Yeah. So I think the things that are working are, are zoom are you know, I haven't messed around much with groups, but, you know, Facebook started, you know, started their own hangout version of of zoom. So I think we need to you know, as an industry, figure out what's going to be the preferred method and, and maybe you use one method or, you know, it would be great to have a platform that was, that was geared towards the industry, whether it was zoom or, you know, you've got some other you've got equipment now that is, that are branching off. And in getting contracts with some of these streaming services, for example, title is working with dentists. So in the DJ world, you've got a system called prime prime for the new prime go controllers. And they actually you get a subscription to use the title, download service, you download the music.

(26:13):

There's no reason we couldn't do a similar for video. So you know, getting a little bit off topic, but, you know, I think we used to get around if you want to try to get around the game is I have some consistent link. I don't think Facebook's are a great example because Facebook is pushing, you're pushing information out with zoom. I've, I've attended several virtual graduations and a couple of weddings. So far zoom seems to be pretty stable in of here is the link go to the link. If something happens, it's technically, you're still able to jump back in and fix it and go back to the same link for the most part. If you're going to do this at all, I think you need to have one dedicated person, be the, either video manager for that day. But to your point, you're going to get better production results.

(27:04):

If you tape it and edit it and then post it. But if you're not able to have 200 guests of your 250 guests wedding, you're going to save 50 grand maybe, and can use some of that money to make sure they're there real time. And for some, for a lot of brides, I would say that's, that's just as important as having them they're, you know, live, obviously they want them there in person, if they can't have them there in person. And next best thing is having their live real time streaming. So you know, I, I wouldn't lead a sales call by saying, well, you know, we can tape it because everyone can tape it. You know, you can obviously do a better job you know, on the production side of it. But I think the, the aspect is how can we get this live stream? And what's the best method to do. So I think quite frankly, I think zoom right now is, is the way that people have gotten used to it. It's only been out for a couple of years, but people have gotten used to whatever the pandemic

(28:04):

And how has zoom handling obviously are they with the copyright stuff? How is that working?

(28:11):

It's so far they're not getting shut down as much. They don't, I don't think the algorithms are quite there. They're still trying to figure out the security aspect. So when zoom five came out they solved a lot of the security issues with people jumping in the calls or people hijacking your calls. I think the next thing they're going to go to is the algorithm for music and, and copyrights. But I think they're just trying to get past their, their their rookie mistakes with the security right now.

(28:38):

But is that something that you would say people should be worried about in the future of that possibly being an email like Facebook has gotten out of them? You're kind of nodding your head.

(28:48):

Yeah. I mean, I, I think that that is the case is they're again, they're so new and they're

(28:56):

Okay.

(28:56):

Finding out that their technology is being used in different ways. My thing is I would love to differentiate or have a platform like Jason said that differentiates from public and private events. That way, you know, your copy written material, isn't being pushed out to everybody. It's just you and your 150 people that are logging in, that's it. And it's not going to be recorded. It won't be available for VOD video on demand to watch later in that case, my thing too is maybe weddings, like every event's different requirements, different, but like read speaking to the videographer here. And, you know, like if a client just says, Hey, I just want one shot. I don't care if multiple cameras are there for me as a DJ, even if with the gear I own bringing in one video feed and then me pumping my audio into that feed is no problem to do.

(29:52):

And then I found that the two platforms it's still work very good for live is Twitch and Periscope via Twitter. I personally haven't had any takedowns other than on my VOD Twitch will mute some of my videos a week or even a day later after the fact, after the fact yeah, but not live. Otherwise I've had very, I've had success and unsuccess with Instagram and Facebook and Instagram is tough because of just the resolution change. And there are a few other third party apps that'll change from a regular resolution to an Instagram resolution. I found success with one of those two. I'm not going to name every platform I stream to, but there are other platforms and other countries that are mainly intended, like Twitch is for video gamers and they're open platforms, but who wants to go to some D live or whatever website they've never heard of to watch their friend's wedding or whatever, you know? So,

(30:51):

Yeah, I think that's part of it. Like, what's the easiest thing for, or grandma or your aunt or uncle who might be in the fifties or sixties who, you know, aren't so tech savvy, you know, zoom we're Facebook, I guess in that situation are probably the easier of, of the options out there. Youtube also, I mean, if you've got a dedicated link to YouTube and Facebook and YouTube, we're only as good as the links, in my opinion, if they don't break, because if you break them, then you've got to start over again. Zoom, if you're using professional equipment and you're using sling studio or something like that, more times than not, you're going to have issues on the technical side and the stream is going to stay open. And going back to just, you know, the age of zoom and, and some of these other services as a service gets more valuable, you know, zoom, you know, from a stock market perspective is off the charts now.

(31:45):

And as the companies get more valuable, the lawyers keep coming out. So you know, there's going to be more lawsuits and as zoom gets sued more, they're going to start stepping up their game on copyright. So it's not to say that it's not to say they don't care. It's not to say that we should, we should treat this like the early days of Napster and it's a free for all, you know, I, I believe as Darren does. And I'm sure as you guys do that, we would love to pay artists, just give us a way to do so, you know, give us a way to be proactive in making sure people get paid.

(32:18):

Yeah. Can we, can you guys speak about that too? And that was also the reason why I thought it was so important to have DJs on today. How you guys do handle that right. With the music and why, why this whole thing, I guess, you know, we probably should preface that, you know, half an hour ago, but you know, a lot of these streams are being taken down because you know, the illegal use of music you know, the, our, this, you know, the, whoever the, you know, stuff that gets flagged, you know, videos on YouTube and stuff all the time, because you know, the artists aren't getting paid properly for, you know, the music that's being used. And so now, you know, now that it's going streaming, it's a whole nother can of worms. So how do you guys handle that normally? And how is that something normally that DJs work through? Because obviously that's not even in my purview of what I deal with on a day to day basis,

(33:04):

Jason, you gotta handle Allen. Sure. So as captain and and BMI, so broadcast music incorporated ASCAP is American society of composers authors and publishers. And those are the companies that take the money for the, the artists. So as an artist, you join ASCAP or BMI or C-SAT, if you're in Europe and you basically say, Hey, manage all my royalties for me. So the people that are getting royalties are the person that wrote the song, the person, or people that publish the song and then the artist. So you can be the artist, you can be a singer songwriter, you can write your song and sing it and you get double royalties, but your publishing company is usually getting a royalty as well. So, you know, a lot of companies will, or a lot of artists once they get big enough will start their own publishing companies.

(33:54):

So they retain all the rights for everything. And when you're a DJ, the venue that you play at is the place that's holding that license. So as a DJ, I can't buy a license for ASCAP or BMI, the bar or the nightclub, or the, the wedding venue has to have that license already. And you only need to have that license when you're a public venue. So if you're doing private events and this has been my argument with COVID, there was no way to be private. And COVID. So if I was having a private zoom conversation, which is private now, but then when you go to publish it, it brings up a whole nother know chain of legalities. If we were just sitting in a room, the three of us and I was playing music, no big deal. It becomes an issue when other people can hear it.

(34:39):

So once, once that privacy is lifted your event is no longer private it's public, because anyone can access it. It crosses state lines, which is another nother legality, interstate commerce laws, and all kinds of stuff. So I really think I wrote letters to Congress. I wrote letters to my congressmen. There should have been a clause in there. There should have been some formal exception to the copyright act that said because of the lack of privacy, because of the lack of private events anything that's not being publicly broadcasted or, or broadcasted for commercial use for monetary gain. There you go, should have been, should have been accepted from all this because some of these wedding it's news to me, right? I think that's, that's no different than a news broadcast. You're getting information. No, one's gonna sit there unless they're J lo and resell their wedding highlights.

(35:40):

And you know, quite frankly, no one, no one cares except for the two or three or 400 people that the couple knows. So, you know, lets you go viral and, and start making money off of your crazy entrance walk or your, your first dance with your dad your first dance or your, your father daughter. Dan said, you know, just, that seemed to be the big thing five years ago, everyone does some crazy song. You're not making money off of it. It's not commercial use it's it's, you know, solely privates non-commercial use. So the other option is you can go the, the Canadian round in Canada DJs actually have to buy a license so you can buy the license for the music and then DJs can be kind of walking licensed entertainers. And that's another way we, you know, we would love to give again, professionals would love to give you the money so we can actually do this without absence.

(36:37):

I would pay for that license. Yeah. I mean, there's never been an issue for professionals because actually it would, it would weed out the non-professionals. We want to give you the money. We just, there's no easy way to do it. I've got my personal opinions on why that is because there's a couple of companies that are taking money and you would put those companies out of business. You would also put out some companies that are, you know, doing downloads now. Your, your radio and DJ pools would kind of go out of business because in Canada you can pretty much get your source. You can get your music from any source. And as long as you've got the license, you can play it. I was going to ask you that, Jason can you speak to that? So a lot of us DJs, we get our music from record pools from only RPM, DMS, BPM, Supreme, et cetera, those companies are distributors, correct.

(37:30):

Especially if they're there, they're there middlemen they're middlemen and scenically it's, it's not for resale audio. So back in the day, when you actually had to give a CD on a CD, it would be printed, not for resale property, a promo only. So, you know, there's only a few companies that are doing this legally promo only RPM, which does top hates RPM is radio. What is it? Radio programming management, I think radio program, managements, RPM and a couple of other ones. They're the only ones doing it illegally. There's a lot of illegal DJ download sites. And don't get tied into that. If you're doing video or you're doing some other means for getting audio to your clients, you make sure you're doing it legally. It's not gonna help you for video, but they do have, you know, video downloads. If you're doing music, video mixes for the DJs watching, they're going to be familiar with these sites. Anyway, that's another problem with the licensing arena is when you mix audio with video, this thing called

(38:36):

A sync license that you're supposed to get, because you can get licensing specifically for your audio. And it's when you try to make a video and put that audio to it that you're recreating something new, utilizing, you know, a piece of art somebody else made. So that's, again, I like where Jason's going to see the rewrite, the rules or make some sort of an addendum for DJ sets specifically, because if we can build a platform that, that tracks what music's being played back to their copyright ID, and then we're able to compensate those artists based on not only how many plays, but the audience of those plays.

(39:16):

Yeah. I mean, that's really, that's really the problem. So it's the audience and the plays and sound exchange is the company that would do it for audio, right. But there's no way to do audio and video on a, a per event basis unless you're in broadcast. And you know, the one thing that we could do as association, or as an industry is say, alright, we're going to get a sound exchange license. And we're going to track as the industry, all of the instances where we play, you know, Canon and D is obviously a song that's been out, you know, past copyright. But I don't know, name a song. We'll go to maroon five and say you know, when the bridegroom exit and you play sugar or you play whatever song, then you're going to get royalties sent to maroon five for that song. You know how sweet it is, James Taylor, you're gonna, you're gonna send money out. And don't mind

(40:16):

Got to get Marvin Gaye money on that one, too.

(40:18):

Exactly, exactly. He wrote the song. So yeah, I mean basically there needs to be an easy way to track that. And if it was something to do through your video or audio software, you know, the, the audio part of this isn't that hard. And I think we've actually had some folks be able to solve the audio part of it. And you can basically, you can just buy and date license for those songs and say, I'm going to have 200 people and here are the songs and you can actually do that yourself. It's not that hard. It takes a little bit of leg work, but the hard part is transmitting that audio. And, you know, what's your reach because if you put a link out there, you know, this video might get 10 views and might get a million views probably closer to, not to the 10 million that's total fan. But you know, nobody wants to see me for an hour talking. So you know, they'll, they'll view at once and they'll be like, they're done with that. There's no, there's no resale value. Like if you, you know, rip an entire Jay Z album overnight and trying to sell it to your friends,

(41:23):

I mean, that's what you guys are saying is the trickiness of it. Cause like, and it was so funny, you guys were talking about the CDs and the not for resale that Dorothy and I are actually watching six feet under on DVD with this little, like whatever I have watched the DVD in a long time. And, you know, you put it in and it's like the four by three, but it says, you know, I'm there like you know, this is for home use only. And I remember a couple of years ago that like a school got sued because they were playing like lion King or something and they were charging, you know, tickets to it. And then they Sue them for the $250,000 or whatever. But so, so the, what you're saying is that it used to be okay or the DJ thing and the music and all of that it's because now it's online. Right. It's because it's going out because we don't, you know, we don't know how many people that's where all this cause I'm trying to boil it down. I mean, I know for us and like the tech stuff and we can, but you know, for the, for the bride or groom or whoever, that's kind of watching this or gleaning this information, that is where the sticking point is coming. Right,

(42:28):

Exactly. VOD on, on being able to put something out there it's already copywritten once, but now it's out there for anybody to view several times. And as you know, on certain platforms, they put commercials on videos. So somebody is making money off of that copywritten content and those people that made the copy-written content aren't getting paid. So there there's a disconnect there. And again, I think that there could be technology, it already exists, but it's owned. Whether you look at Shizam or the algorithm's YouTube uses or, or Instagram, there is a way to track the copyright ideas on these, on music. And so I just think that on the back end that the platform would have to compensate the artists according to again, number of plays and audience size, plain and simple.

(43:19):

So, Oh, go ahead. Sorry. I was going to say there's plenty of ways to do that with apps now and in software. And I was just looking up the company like Swank. So Swank is a company where you can get a movie emotion picture royalties, you pay them, and then you can actually download for your example at a school and you would actually download the commercial version of that. It's got a timestamp on it. So it's only good for 24 hours or 48 hours. You tell them how many people are going to be at the event. You pay the royalties based on number of people. And it might be a dollar person or 50 cents a person, depending on how old the movie is. And a lot of guys and gals are making money off of drive movies right now. So, you know, if you've got the video or audio equipment partner up, do a drive in movie or doing outdoor movie and, you know, make some money that way, because a lot of cinemas are closed and you can't get in the movie theaters and you really don't want to be in a movie theater with a hundred people.

(44:17):

You don't know. So, you know, you can sit outside under the stars and, and watch you know, the original top gun. And since we can't watch top gun to this,

(44:26):

Okay,

(44:27):

Are we missing out on that? Is that, was that supposed to be out? It's supposed to be out this week, I think, or next week. And they're pushing it back to December, which if there's a resurgence, that's probably the worst thing to pick, but you know, hopefully there's no resurgence, but anyway, Swank and some other companies, there you go, is Maverick. The pattern's full. So yeah, if you go to those companies, there, there are ways. And it just goes to show you that motion picture industry has figured it out. The audio industry and ASCAP and BMI have not figured it out. And whether it's just too political for them to figure it out ever or there's too many people already in it, which is kinda my opinion. If you, if you make one law and you have to divide up that one law from all the companies that are doing licensing, it's either going to consolidate all those companies into one company or, or make it, you know non-profitable or earn unnecessary for those companies to exist.

(45:30):

What, so to kind of round this out you know, you guys have been so gracious with your time today, and I don't want to hold you all day. I really do appreciate you coming on to do this big takeaway. You know, if I'm a, if I'm someone planning the wedding, I'm trying to figure this out. What, you know, besides obviously just like hire a professional, but what is, what is the big takeaway for both of you guys about what what advice you would have like Adam brought up early on, you know, not having the ceremony music in there, but obviously there's so many emotions that's tied to that. And people were trying to figure that out. You know, keeping it privately or I don't, what, what, what's your advice? What, what should people do? And that doesn't need to be like a, a answer every situation, but you know, kind of a best guess.

(46:18):

Yeah. So I think if you want to keep the emotion in it, download and use the royalty free music so you can pay it's more expensive. I mean, it's not, you're a dollar 99 or whatever it is to go to iTunes or Apple music now, but it is you know, in some cases, five to $25 a song, you own that song. You can use it however you want. And if you can find some emotional music to add to the soundtrack of your wedding ceremony, cause let's face it, you only need a few songs. And you don't have to worry about this at all. I can just go away and you can say, you know what you know, Canon and D if you get a version of Kennedy, that's old enough, there's no problem there. That's not royalty issue. Depending on who's playing it and you can play it yourself. Some of the songs that are, you know, the pre 70 songs you can well, the pre copyright acts songs you can get away with using now for no, no cost, as long as you're the one that's playing it, singing it, you know, have a friend sing a song that's, there's no copyright issues with. But if it's my wedding, I'm going to download something that I know can actually be streamed. If I care about streaming, that much could speak to

(47:30):

Something. I was going to have a live musician on today that actually has worked for the Grammy association. Could you speak to that? Cause I know even with a live band, technically you should have a license.

(47:42):

Yeah, that was my question. Yeah. So there's the Harry Fox agency is the company that does the licensing for theatrical and live music. So you actually have to get the license to perform the song. If you're only performing it and you're performing, it's a small group, then it's not very expensive if you're performing it to put it on a CD or MP three and then reselling it, there's obviously added costs, but I believe it would be Harry Fox that would handle that Harry Fox agency. And again, if you're only doing a couple of songs and you're having somebody play, that's not an issue. The bigger problem is going to be, if for some reason it sounds good enough that Facebook or, or or Twitch, you know, can say that's a copyrighted song, they're going to pull it down. You're gonna have to then prove it. So you know, live musician obviously is going to have the advantage of not sounding like the recorded version. So it's not gonna hit the algorithm right away. But in the future, somebody might click on it as inappropriate or, or copyright violation and you might get like for that, but

(48:51):

It doesn't matter. We're not knowing VOD anyway. Right.

(48:54):

Exactly. But you could do VOD if you've got that in place, if you've got the advanced, you know, the advanced permission. Yeah. Adam, any other takeaways from best to best legally and responsibly, you know, live stream a wedding ceremony.

(49:10):

Yeah. Well, I think that just getting, asking your clients what, what you want to do or asking brides and grooms what they want. Because I think that there's two ways really that you can go two paths. One is, do you want, and do you need this to be interactive? Cause if you need two way communication, you want to say hi to grandma and talk and hand the iPad around whatever it is that zoom, you know what I mean? Or do you just want to broadcast out? Can we just take everything and make it available for people to see and hear possibly? Cause it's finding out those goals that that's, that's, that'll take you down those paths and then whether or not it's private, I would say even recording it won't we won't put it online for you. I imagine read your, you're going to tell your client I'll record and edit and do everything for you after the fact.

(50:01):

But as far as your live portion, maybe it's just one camera. And so even though yours and three cameras or whatever, it may be, one of those is the live camera. So I just, I think just, just getting down to what the clients want and then us explaining them the legalities of each, each step or each, each way to do it is, is a good path to take or a good way to go down because right now I'm okay. All my clients, they have what they want, they know what they need. I kind of got everything lined up. But like you said, you're getting inquiries this past month that people want to do some of these things so that we're capable of doing. And I'm excited about that because I, I love being challenged and doing new things at events.

(50:44):

No, I think, yeah, I think it's great. I mean, it's definitely something that, you know, people are equipped to do and can do, but it is, it's just those asking those right questions and educating people. Cause like I said this for years, it was, well, my cousin had the videographer at his wedding and they were able to use whatever music they wanted. So I wanted to be able to do the same thing. And you know, for years, you know, I had to explain, well, you know, that might've been someone that maybe was doing it as a side hustle and did not worry about their business and all these other things. And so it's just that the same conversations now. So I would just, yeah, like you said that ask the right questions and I think be open to that. Like anything else in a wedding, you know, people don't know what you don't know what you don't know.

(51:30):

Right. And so I think trusting, you know, your videographer or DJ or photographer about anything that you have, but you know, asking these questions and not just assuming, well, this is the way, because just some of the language I was seeing just in the last couple of weeks with posts, you know, you know we need a live stream, must have open copyright to be able to be on Facebook. And you're like, well, how does the, how do they even know about that? You must write me a blank, check them. Yeah. So just, you know, I, and it's tough in a, I know it's everyone's wedding and I know that, you know, you want it to be the way that you want and everything is so chaotic right now. But sometimes you know, the law does come into place. Right. And you need to, there's not that like, it's not a videographer or a DJ thing. This is something that is bigger than anybody that is personally involved in your wedding. Right.

(52:24):

Yeah. And I would, I would just add to that and say, if you've got a client that's a, you know, stuck on that hell, bent on having open copyrights and you know, no such thing just get rid of that client. I mean, that's not your client, if you, if you're gonna, you know, worry about the reputation of your company or getting sued or not being able to, you know, like Adam said, you can, you can do all the production on the backend, but don't put your name to anything of that and make sure you've got something legally that is telling that person, Hey, this is illegal as is it's for demonstration use only or personal use only. And to be able to use this legally, you've got to go through these steps. So, you know, you can kind of do the production and say, just like a movie production. There's, there's different people doing the editing that are doing the music that are doing the hiring. So, you know, the casting, you can say, Hey, I've done my part, but it's on your responsibility. Now, sign to

(53:26):

Take responsibility to get the licensing or whatever to publish this read, have read. Have you ever done that has gotten licensing for one song. A client was hell bent on habit in their video and made the video for them.

(53:38):

So we, you know, we licensed all the songs. You mean for like the highlight videos.

(53:44):

Exactly. Cause it's just one copy of DV or maybe 10 copies you're given to the client, that's it?

(53:49):

Yeah, no. And we, and we do and that, you know, we have, I have subscriptions, I probably pay, I don't know, 1500 a year for the various sites. So we have to get, you know, the songs and whatever. And we do that. But like I said, the difference is you know, it's for that individual thing, you know, I don't know what the licenses are for the live broadcast, but even still it's I think it's the people, the compromise is always okay. Year. Cause like we provide like a private ceremony link that has the, the music as it was either that they cause it's my, you know, my argument is always okay, that's found that's the live music that was playing. We're just capturing the action. It's on a private link. They have no one else that's going to see it. You know, the client has it on a thumb drive and that's it.

(54:35):

But you know, the compromise is always, well, you can't like in your highlight video, you are going to have your first dance, not to your first dance song. Right. Unless it's something now I'm the nerd that when we were getting married, I, we didn't, but I was talking to my wife, why our first answer long should be something that I, you know, licensed. So then we could actually dance to it and then would actually, you know, I was in there, they tried to do that, but you know, but the, the, the, my thing is always, you know, that stuff will be in your private, that you have, right. The raw footage that you have and that we will do it. But I think now it's like with this live streaming, I think the couples are like, why can't have the music that I want anywhere. Right. And that's where I think that I I'm getting scared now talking to clients about right. You know what I'm saying?

(55:22):

Yup. Oh, that's funny.

(55:23):

So yeah, it's, it's tough. Cause it's, you know, for years it was, well, you're going to have one and not the other, and now it's like, well, you might not have any, especially like Jason said with, you know, trying to find royalty free music to walk down the aisle to it. That's not the same as, you know, Christina Perrier or whatever. So well thank you guys so much again for coming on and Jason for hopping on as well. I really appreciate, you know, your expertise. And I think that just the wealth of knowledge, obviously that you have, I mean, this is just incredible. So I really do appreciate you guys coming on and add them for kind of setting this up. You know, if you have any questions about this, please, you know email me reid@bestmadevideos.com more than happy to, to answer questions or put you in contact with some information about this. Cause it is, I know we got a little technical today, but I think that there's a lot of great information and I think more than anything, just showing how much stuff there is out there that you need to consider when you're kind of incorporating live streaming into your wedding. I'm going to put your guys's contact info, websites, everything, any other final thoughts before we go that you wanted to to note?

(56:34):

No, I, if I can give a plug USDJA U S does jockey association, USD, j.org for all the DJs out there. The peep network, the performing entertainers and event professional network, deep network and.org or PDF be networked.com as well. And that will take you to a an association it's our, our partner association, which is good for videographers photographers and other industry professionals where you can also join in and network with us getting your liability insurance or equipment coverage, things like that. We kind of, we're one of the only associations in the country to have the master policy so that the cost is a lot less to go through us than other, other venues and other insurance companies.

(57:23):

Awesome. Adam, you want to promote your Facebook live streams?

(57:27):

Oh yeah. I just, I, you know, I've got so much going on with DJ stuff, con competition with Sam's Tavern look out for that next week on it. And I believe Instagram will be sharing it with all my Facebook. But really I've got a handful, a couple of handfuls of weddings July through October. Otherwise my calendar is pretty wide open. I've only got a handful of weddings that have rescheduled for next year and have come through for next year already. But definitely if you want to have a party, even have a virtual party at your house where you just want a live DJ playing remotely and can take live requests, that's something I am offering as prices starting only a hundred dollars an hour. So I just virtual parties are where it's at. So the copyright on that thing is again, going through the channels that we found, when you do it live, you don't get, yeah, you don't get cut off on the Periscopes and the twitches. So there's still a, we're still trying to help with, with that and just making things happen.

(58:33):

Perfect. If you have a quote, if you're listening, if you have questions for upcoming episodes, we have a great one coming up with venue owners. We're going to do another one with DJs, talking about reception ideas you know, in 20, 20 and beyond. And if you have any questions for any other vendor types, you can go to www.bestmadevideos.com/survey. And we have everything kind of organized by vendor type. If you have questions and www.bestmadevideos.com/subscribe please like, and subscribe to the podcast. This is our new spinoff of our, three-year-old get to know your wedding pro podcast. So any likes and support is great as we move forward and they gig in. Thanks again, you guys so much for your time and thanks, Jason. It was great to meet you virtually.

(59:15):

Thanks for you. Good to meet you as well. Thanks guys.

(59:17):

I'm always a pleasure. Well only sometimes.

(59:23):

Thanks guys.

Episode 2 - Wedding Invitation FAQs

(00:07):

Well, thank you guys so much. I'm so excited today. Holly is a long time friend. We met almost three years ago. Now, one of the first guests ever of my get to know your wedding pro podcast and has really turned into a really good friend over the years. And we've done a lot of wedding shows together and you know, I've met your husband and I've been to your house to record and we've done, you know, videos for you. And I, I called Holly and I said, you know, I really want to put together a round table talking all about just rescheduling and all the different questions right now, a lot of questions about save the dates, invitations, all that stuff. And so I messaged Holly and I said, who do you want to come on this podcast? And she said, you guys, and so we've assembled this wonderful round table. So why don't we start with Camille go, why don't you introduce yourself? And we'll kind of go alphabetical around and then we can get into some questions.

(00:57):

Great. I'm Camille with Robinson Creative Jouse based in Seattle, Washington and Holly. I am Holly Goodman. I own Sablewood Paper Company, just North of Seattle. And I've, I've been around here for a few years now and yeah, that's, that's me and Stephanie, I'm the owner of Chloe Clarke, the Art of Paper. I've been a stationer for 12 years. I'm also a letter press printer. I started my greeting card company under the name Dalia press. And then this last year we did a transition to make a sister brand, which is Chloe Clark and that is entirely focused on wedding invitations.

(01:40):

Perfect. Yeah. And it's, it's so good to have you guys on I think I've told Holly this before, and I know I've talked about it on the, on the other podcast that the invitations and stuff was really one of the only things that Dorothy and I really customized for our wedding. You know, as a wedding vendor and as a guy, I didn't really have a lot of thoughts about a lot of stuff, but we did put a lot of time and energy into the paper goods that we had. And so it's always been great just from the get go to kind of get Holly involved with this from the beginning. And I was counting on the fridge before we got started that we have, I think, six different invitations still that Dorothy's kept on our fridge from all the weddings we've gone to in the last couple of years. So it is a, it is a true thing. Why don't we just start off with kind of just a check in just how's everyone doing right now? I just think it's always kind of appropriate right now. Stephanie, maybe we can start with you and go back around just, you know, how are things going, you know, business we're, you know, things are starting to open up, you know, it's been a little different for you guys, you know, obviously remote working, but how's everything going?

(02:39):

Yeah. It's been unusual. This is definitely nothing we could have ever been prepared for. I think an interesting thing probably for all of us is that when coven first started, we had to address the issue of like how to handle weddings going forward as far as notifying guests. So I think, I mean, at least for me that kept me very busy at the beginning.

(03:00):

And I think now things are teetering off as that's been handled and people are kind of at a pause at this moment. So it's been, it's been quiet, but we're hoping that things will start to open up and stuff. We'll pick back up again

(03:13):

And Hollywood. Right. You okay.

(03:16):

So definitely the same as Stephanie when all of this started, it was, it was still kind of business as usual for me. I didn't really experience any sort of down ticks until about two or three weeks ago when all the postponements have been taken care of already. And people were just kind of like stuck in this waiting game of, do we send out invitations? Do we sit on them? Do we, do we wait to send out postponement announcements until we know when we're going to be in the phase that we need to be in, in order to have our wedding. So things lately have been very slow, but it's been actually kind of nice to be able to focus on more of like the client experience, be able to hone that in a little bit more and make tweaks before diving back into invitations.

(04:00):

And Camille, what about you?

(04:02):

Yeah, I think Stephanie, Holly touched on both. At first, like you said, it was just, it was busy and a lot of people are like, are you okay? Are you still busy? I'm like, we're cranking out postponement announcements. And like, I think for me too, I had, it was a lot of just guiding my client on the anxiety front because I think some of my brides and grooms even just, they didn't want to wait to see what would happen. And I think we were getting information literally on a 24 hour basis of things changing in our area and things continuing to be closed. So I had some, I have some brides that are probably fall winter and they just got tired of waiting. And so they're like just, we're calling it. We're going to do a small celebration that we know that we'll probably be able to happen with no 20 to 30 people.

(04:46):

And then we're going to do a big celebration next year. So I think probably the last month I've been sort of teetering off of just all those summer weddings are basically taken care of and have made decisions. And now we're kind of moving into that next block of, you know, September, October, November. And they're kind of doing that decision of, do we wait until Friday till the next, you know, Jay Inslee and now submit of like, what's going to open. What's not going to open. But yeah, I think it's been, we now have kind of a good idea of everybody for this year, what they're going to do. So that's been a little bit, you know, some weight off my shoulders of like waiting and seeing what's happening. But yeah, it's definitely been interesting. I, I have to say, like I was so excited for this year and I was like, this is it.

(05:30):

We're, we're fully packed and all of that. And then coven hit and we're like, well, I guess this is just how we're going to have to deal with it. But the good news, I guess the silver lining is that, you know, next year is looking like a great celebration already and some are spilling up. So I'm excited for them and I'm excited to kind of be there for my couples to do this again next year. So yeah, I'm always kind of a numbers guy and like into, you know, we're, we're a little more of a high volume, you know, studio just in terms of

(05:58):

The wedding videos. And yeah, I, you know, I always do pride myself, so I'm like, you know, how many weddings we're doing each year or whatever. And it's like, yeah, that's all, you know, certainly thrown out the window now. And it's all kind of, you know, survival mode. It's interesting you guys so talking about slowing down a little bit, you know, we just our August 1st, we just rescheduled yesterday and then our August 15th is kind of on the, on the books right now. Or we have two on the 15th that are kind of wavering. Are you guys, do you feel like everyone you have right now is, is pretty holding steady or how's that going? And who wants to start with that one?

(06:32):

I will, for the most part, almost all of my clients for this year have postponed. I have

(06:40):

Yeah,

(06:40):

Four that are still planning, but nothing through the summer, they're all fall winter weddings and some are out of the country. So that will be interesting to see what happens. But yeah, for the most part, people are just really looking towards 2021.

(06:55):

Okay.

(06:56):

I'd have to agree. Yeah. I have one out of country wedding at the end of September. And that couple was just like, if we don't have a travel ban, we're going, so my husband and I are part of that wedding. So I'm like, sure, it sounds good. We'll be there. But then yeah, like Stephanie said, I have been, I have one October wedding. That's still holding steady with a full guest list, like 200 people in hopes that, you know, will be fully open there, like the end of October. But other than that, it's been all post. So I don't have anything until that late September.

(07:31):

Yeah.

(07:31):

Yeah. Same here. I, my first wedding is September 25th. So everything else before that has been pushed and even I even had a, a November wedding pushed to next November. So everybody's kind of taking it a little bit differently. Some people are like, gung-ho, we're gonna make this happen. However we have to. And others are like, no, we still want the big party. So we're going to have to hold out for another year or so.

(08:01):

Yeah. I want to add something to that too. Like, I feel like everyone, it's hard because when people look to you to ask advice, like, should we cancel? Should we not? What's everyone else doing every single one of my clients this year has canceled or postponed for different reasons. Some have just been anxious about waiting. Didn't want to wait. Some have been pushed out because of venue restrictions. Other people have, you know, they are having a lot of out of country or out of state travel and people are nervous. So they don't want to put that on their guests and they really want to celebrate with everyone. So there really isn't a right formula to say, go forward or go not or not to. And I just basically asked my couples, I'm like, what kind of celebration do you want to have? Do you feel comfortable doing this? If you do, then we'll support you and we'll get everything out when we need to, if not, we're here to help you get respondents out to get cancellation announcements out, all that kind of stuff. So I feel like that's been the tricky part of like, you know, they ask, well, what is everyone else in August doing?

(08:56):

It's like,

(08:56):

Well, there's five of them.

(08:59):

I'm about to give you. So it's really just depending on how you guys feel. So

(09:03):

Yeah, because you guys kind of are, you know, one of the, you gotta be involved in that, right. If you're, if you're a postponing and that's one of the first calls is, okay, how are we going to get this going? And it is tough to be like you said, to be put in that, not to be put like put in that position, but you do feel like, you know, you're trying to answer these questions and, you know, having brides and grooms ask and you're like, well, I don't, you know, I don't know. Right. It really is an individual. I mean, we just signed one for the end of June and I'm like, yeah, cause we're, we're a little,

(09:32):

We're all like, I'm so nervous. You know,

(09:39):

I say, you know, don't spend those deposits. Right. And I mean, we're in a unique position where we can offer the live streaming. And so that makes it a little more sense, right. If you're still going to do one thing I wanted to talk about unrelated to what you guys were saying that, you know, some of the people that are doing you know, a little smaller thing now, and then the later thing next year, and I mean, this isn't even, this is just kind of general a wedding vendor talk. I mean, what do you guys think about that in the splitting of, you know, doing stuff now and doing stuff next year? Cause I certainly have my own thoughts about that.

(10:12):

I think I'll jump in. Cause I have a a mom that I've been working with for over a year now and planning her daughter's wedding has been you know, a lot of fun for her. And so she was really looking forward to having a big blowout event in, at the end of June. So because the ceremony itself is so important, they wanted to keep that on the same day that they were originally planning and do like a fake live stream event. We put together a huge package for them with, you know, ribbon wands and programs and all kinds of fun things for guests to look out while they're, while they're live streaming. But at the same time, they know that all of the, the family members and friends want to be there to celebrate with them. So it makes total sense to, for them to have another event the next year to have they're actually doing it on the anniversary date.

(11:07):

So they're having like a big anniversary party for all the guests. And in that instance, that makes total sense. But I know that from a financial standpoint, for some people that having two separate events might not make a bunch of sense. You know, you might be adding an extra paper goods for something like that, sending out an announcement for your original date and then an announcement for your second date. And that might be too much of a financial burden for people. So I think it kind of comes down to what Camille and Stephanie were saying earlier about, you know, you can't, you can't put all your eggs in one basket just because somebody says that that's the way they're doing things. Everybody's going to be a little bit different and have different needs and requirements for their, for their celebration.

(11:51):

Do you have any thoughts?

(11:54):

I think it also just comes down to what their priority is and I I've had a couple couples cancel and just do a private ceremony with their immediate family because they just really want to get married and they were willing to postpone the party or ignore the party entirely. And so instead for those couples, we're doing more of like a marriage announcement. But then I do think for others, the wedding is one part of it, but the party is a huge part of it. So having to give that up right now is really difficult. And so for those people, it is better just to postpone and push things out and, you know, have what they originally intended.

(12:31):

I think you can do it

(12:33):

Both ways, really elegantly. And I don't know that postponing is necessarily a bad thing at this moment. I think people are really understanding as to why Chris moments are happening. So I know there's a lot of worry about how to let their guests know, but I think people get it and they're very accommodating at this point in time.

(12:52):

I agree. I feel like most of my couples have postponed almost to the anniversary date or have tried to get as close as they can because they have this vision of, you know, a summer wedding and Roche Harbor on the water. And, you know, they really just wanted to have that experience. And they kind of based a lot of their other details around that their four walls around that all that day. So while maybe there was dates later in like a winter open, they said, you know, we're just going to do the full experience the next year. But I also, like Stephanie said, I have couples who were like, we didn't care that much about the ceremony. Like, you know, it's about kind of the party and the reception and the dancing and all that for us. So, you know, they'll do something with friends and family just really close.

(13:33):

I have two couples that are just doing a courthouse wedding on their original date, and then they're moving the biggest celebration to later this year. But that's the one other thing I wanted to touch on is like, this is the one time I feel like, no, one's going to take it personally. Like everyone sort of gets it and that, you know, that's the one worry people think, I think a lot of my couples had was how do I tell them gently that, you know, they're getting uninvited and I'm like, well, if we just look around a little bit, wasn't really a personal choice and you know, it's so it's, it's been interesting to help them word that, but I'm like, you know, anything that you say of like, you know, we decided just to have family there, it's fine. We just decided to have, you know, our 30 closest friends, you know, doing this little party in the backyard at my parents' house, you know, I think most people understand that the decision that they made was the best one for them. So yeah, I think that's, it's just been interesting cause I'm like, it's okay, we're going through a pandemic. Like most of the world will never, ever have to explain this to their guests ever again. So we hope

(14:41):

Piggyback on that. I also think that there are a lot of guests who honestly are kind of grateful that to a certain extent like that the bride and groom or the groom and groom are bright and bright taking this opportunity

(14:52):

To look out for their health and that they're not in a position where they have to make a difficult decision. They want to be there, but they just don't feel health wise that they can. So I think there's a lot of people who are not only respecting those decisions, but they're very grateful that now it's not that I'm to make that decision.

(15:08):

Okay.

(15:09):

No, that's true. It's I had said on the last episode one of the Dorothy's friends, they were, she was going to get married in October and they like a month ago postpone to next year and she was asking me and what my thoughts were. And I said, well, geez, that stuff, cause a lot of our weddings are postponing to, you know, around your date. And so now when you're pushing, but they're going to do they want to do, you know, little get together wedding on their anniversary this year. And you know, Dorothy's asking me, well, what does that mean? That, you know, are we going to be there? You know, are the bright, you know? And I was like, cause you know, of course she's asking me, cause I'm supposed to be IP expert working with her friend on the wedding. And I'm like, I don't know. Right. Like I don't know what that means. And it might just mean her parents and you might have to put your bridesmaid's dress in the, in the closet for a year. I don't know. Right. I mean, but it's, it's kinda like it's tough, but whatever they decide, you know, this is such a unprecedented time, you know,

(16:01):

And also to your point read, like this is an unprecedented time, but we do live in a time where weddings can kind of be whatever you want them to be. We're not bogged down by so much tradition as we were even 10, 15 years ago. So if they want all of the bridesmaids to show up in Brightspace dresses this year and also next year, you can totally do that. You know, I don't think that anybody's in any position to tell you what you should or shouldn't do with your wedding day or postponement. I think it's all up to you guys.

(16:33):

Okay.

(16:33):

I think that's a great point. I am enjoying maybe the, you know, at least in Seattle and you guys are, you know, obviously working with couples and you can work remote and stuff, but you know, for us, it's like that may to October is like such a grind and I am really maybe looking forward to like, maybe we can spread that out, you know, and not have to do 50 weddings and four months. So maybe we can spread that out over over six months or nine months would be really great. The other thing and I guess this goes to paper and, and design and all that. I didn't even think about this and I'm such a guy, but when you know, you're talking about, okay, like we have an August wedding and we're going to move to February and our planners last week were talking, okay, well that means we got a, you know, rethink the design structure and all that. I don't even think about that. Like I'm such a dumb guy. Like I don't even think, well, you can't use the same colors and whatever does that when you guys have the, is that design stuff, is that stuff you guys have to think about too? And maybe Camille, we can start with you and go around.

(17:34):

Yeah. I think it kind of depends on, like I mentioned earlier, a lot of my couples have been wanting to have that same sort of seasonal experience if you will. So a lot of their vendors that have been chosen, especially florals, I mean, you can't, you know, are you going to be importing

(17:50):

For those that aren't in season in our area, if you're moving from a summer to a winter wedding? So most of my, my couples have actually stuck pretty close to the original design and we've actually gotten so far with so many of them designing their invitations around that too. I basically just asked them, you know, do you want to have the same design next year? And all of them have said, yes. I have one couple that is actually moving from, they moved from August of this year to April of next year. And you know, it was kind of up to them and it was like, they were having a very big, like colorful, bright, kind of a little hints of exotic florals and stuff like that. And now it's going to be spring and you know, so they're pulling back some of it, but I really think it's up to you.

(18:32):

Like every single decision that they've made with other vendors, I've kind of just guided them being like, look, this is, you know, fairly easy to change this element, this element, this element. But I've kind of left the door open a little bit for even their kind of their taste to change in a year. I know that even from when I sent my save the dates to when I sent my wedding invitations, I was like, I don't like that anymore. I want to change my colors a little bit. So I know that that's always going to be the case, even if we weren't going through COVID. So I leave the door open a little bit for that, but mostly it's been pretty, pretty straight forward on design and kind of staying within the realm that we had originally created.

(19:10):

Anyone else? I'm sorry. Stephanie, do you want to go ahead? [inaudible] I actually had a, a couple that we, we were moving forward with printing. They did all foil for all of their pieces. And then like, as soon as we pulled the trigger on that like a week later we found out that we weren't going to be able to have the wedding anymore. So now I just shipped those piece, unused pieces off to them to kind of like sit on and, and be sad about but at least they have these beautiful pieces to hold on to, but we since they're moving to next year for their new wedding date, we're just going to be changing the date from the, on those pieces to the new date. And so luckily, like if you're working with a custom stationer like us, then you might be able to get some sort of discount for reprinting from your printer.

(20:16):

It depends on who you're working with of course, but that is, if you do want to keep the same design for your invitation and you don't want to invest more in design costs to change some things, then ask your stationer and say, Hey, like I want to use the same design as we originally started on, can we just get like a reprinting fee or can we, you know, can we just change the date on this one card and get it printed for the same price? There's a lot of options for people that want to keep their invitations in the same, rather changing them. So I think that's the direction a lot of my couples are going is we don't want to change too much because we don't want to pay, you know, extra design fees or anything like that. We've already had to pay so many extra fees to reschedule

(21:01):

Stephanie.

(21:02):

Yeah, I'm very similar to both Holly and Camille. Most of my clients that we've already established a design direction, don't really want to change it. And the majority of those picked dates almost a year exactly from their original wedding date. So style wise, color scheme wise, things really shouldn't have to change, but for the clients that we were earlier in the design process, I pretty much put a big pause on them, shifted them to a new timeline for next year and said like, let's just regroup in January because styles do change. And yeah, they might decide that they don't want to be floral forward on their invites. Now they just want to focus on pinstripes, who knows. So I just want to give them that flexibility because it is a different event now. So yeah, there's for the people that have done it, we've kind of stayed the course, but for those that are very early, we're just kind of taking a little pause.

(21:55):

Yeah. So we have a lot of you know, questions related to, you know, how to, you know, redo things or have the same things and whatever. And I thought it'd be really good to, to obviously bring them on to kind of ask you guys and just get, and I mean, these are, you know, some, some specific things, but I think that obviously we can take some broad lessons out of that. And this first one's we have a November bride and she hasn't sent out save the dates yet because of the, you know, of the situation. And at this point she's not really sure how to handle even sending out, save the dates. And she does a couple different questions, you know, do you send them to the whole guest list with the disclaimer that, you know, the guest list is subject to change or send them to just like immediate family and then send them out more later or to not even bother with save the dates who would like to start with

(22:42):

That? Okay.

(22:43):

Okay. Okay. I was actually reading over this question earlier and I was, I was thinking that I don't think that I would send out save the dates at this point because we are now sitting less than five months out from the wedding date. And I don't recommend sending save the dates any earlier than eight months, because if you send out, save the dates eight months out it might take two weeks for them to get to all of your couples or I'm sorry, all of your guests. And then we immediately have to start on invitations and those have to go out, you know, eight to 12 weeks before your wedding. So it just feels like you're bombarding people with too much paper at that point. And as save the date at this point could be better achieved with a phone call or even, and I hesitate to say this and invite of some kind you know, you, I wouldn't do it personally, but if you really, really want to you need to do it yesterday. You need to just get it out. And

(23:44):

Definitely keep in mind that you're going to need to start doing your invitation design pretty soon to think of really, really narrowed on your guest list and consider who you want to invite, because once you send out invitations, it's really hard to resend that invitation.

(24:01):

Camille.

(24:03):

Yeah, I was going to say that's, what's always hard is like, you know, and some, some couples don't have any sort of, you know, circumstance that's making them decide whether to send them or not. They just don't even know how early to send them. And they're like, Oh my weddings in six months, I should probably send a save the date. And I have what I have done for those who really do want to get some sort of formality around to see if the date is doing an online, save the date. And I used to work for a company called Greenvelope, which is like an online stationary company. And what I've done for them is just created a custom design that is going to match the invitation. So there's some, you know, it looks a little bit cohesive and looks like it's going to match.

(24:42):

It's not some random like template at eBay and have done that for the couples that really have wanted to, but then what I've recommended if they don't want to do it is just to get the invitations out earlier than that we had originally planned and give your guests time to make travel plans, accommodations, and all that. Cause that hesitation you have is like, you send them, like Holly said, and then, you know, a month later they're getting another set of paper. It's like, what was the point? Or but I do understand that hesitation of people being like, well, I want them to know, I want them to have time to plan. So I would probably recommend just sending invitations a little bit earlier than you had thought and given them, give them more time to send in an RSVP and kind of arrange and all that. So that's what I would do,

(25:26):

Stephanie.

(25:28):

Yeah. I'm in complete agreement. I think for this particular situation, it's too close to the actual wedding date. So I would just ignore the, save the date entirely in general. Also I think we should recognize that say the dates are not a requirement. They're wonderful. And I certainly am a proponent of using them, but not everyone has to receive a, the date. So when it comes to us having limited numbers going forward due to COVID just make sure you're sending the, save the dates to the people that you really do intend to send invitations to. And if for whatever reason you think you're going to be able to increase your quantity of invitations and add more people, don't worry if those people didn't get saved the dates in the beginning, it's not a problem. Not everyone has to receive both. They just need the invitation. Is that the, is that a unique situation now with etiquette because of everything that's going on there is that, cause I don't, you know, I don't know, no, no, save the dates. I mean, they literally are just that it is telling someone, we want you to reserve this state in advance and start making plans accordingly. The only real etiquette piece is the invitation itself. And I don't even know that save the dates were really that popular until maybe the last 15, 20 years. So it's one of

(26:44):

Those things. If you're planning your wedding real far out, absolutely. You should be sending save the dates. But it is not a requirement.

(26:51):

Anyone else sending out some that you want to move on to the next one?

(26:55):

I think Stephanie pretty much she took that one and ran with it,

(27:01):

Stephanie. So we have here. Yeah. You have a September wedding. And they're trying to figure out some different options that might fit the guidelines. They might get married cut the guest list and get married at the venue or postpone. But they were having a bridal shower that was going to be thrown and they're trying to figure out the guest list. And so they're trying to figure out the, kind of the etiquette with that. And I just, I know that's not specifically related to kind of like wedding invites, but I still think like, just in terms of like etiquette and kind of tradition and things, how do you feel about, or, or even like doing like bachelorette or bachelor parties or, you know, bridal showers and things like that. And then not necessarily knowing what that guest list is going to entail. And maybe we could start with Camille and go around. I don't know what order we went before. Sorry.

(27:48):

Okay. Yeah. I, you know, I think this one, I sat with this cause I've had this come up a couple of times and I have in particular, a wedding that's in Napa in September that postponed to next year and her bridal shower is in a couple of weeks. And, and things are starting to be lifted in terms of guidelines that have, you know, gatherings and stuff like that. But, you know, I think again I feel like, especially in, I'm going to use the Brighton shower example specifically is that I feel like there's a lot of women in your life that really weren't or men that want to celebrate your day and they want to be there regardless if they're coming to the wedding. I think that most people and most guests will understand if you've cut a guest list or if you're just having family.

(28:29):

But you know, that might be a way for them to celebrate you this year is having that rental shower going on that bachelorette party. And so I wouldn't be too concerned about, you know, feeling bad about, you know, if you're there and you're talking about the wedding, I, you know, I think that it all kind of goes with a grain of salt. And like, if you really are nervous about that, then maybe you do have a smaller gathering. But for me personally, I think by the sobriety and I felt like I was having a smaller wedding later this year and I wasn't sure who was going to go, I'd still want my bridal shower to be special and coming, go into with that notion of like, you know, things are kind of up in the air for us and we're going to be making the decision soon, but I still want to celebrate with all these lovely people in a different way. And so that would be kind of my, my advice.

(29:16):

I totally agree. Absolutely. I, I think that the only, the only thing that I would say in addition to that is if you know that you're having a smaller wedding next year, don't just invite people to your bridal shower just to have them there because,

(29:34):

Hmm.

(29:34):

I don't know if that's, that's just wrong in a normal situation. I think it's just, it kind of feels like to me, like you just want more people, maybe more gifts or something. You know, you, you have to take other people's feelings into consideration for sure. But if you don't really know what's gonna go on next year, you can't, you can't force yourself to limit, I guess, list based on uncertain factors. So my advice to, to this bride would be, or grim would be to, you know, invite who you want to invite and let, let things take their course. You know, if you have to have a smaller wedding later, don't feel bad that those people came to your bridal shower or bachelor party or anything like that. They'll understand. These are weird times that we're in right now, Stephanie.

(30:24):

I completely agree with what folks said in the past. I've been a real stickler about like, if they're not invited to the wedding, you don't invite them to the shower as someone who was once invited to a destination bachelorette party and then not invited to the wedding, it was like, Whoa, didn't know what she was doing. I'm like, gosh, it's an icky feeling. She wanted all of her friends there, but then had a tiny wedding. And so I don't ever suggest anyone does that. But in this situation where you just don't know what your guest count is going to have to look like, absolutely have the people you want in your life, in this moment, they're with you. And then you can make that decision down the road. And I do think again, there's a lot of grace right now. People are giving when it comes to these situations and it'll be fine. They'll understand

(31:13):

One thought that, and just to interject

(31:18):

With this you know, doing the celebrations this year and then moving to next year, I don't know. And you guys might agree or not, and that's fine. I have like a year, you know, postponing the year, year and a half. It's like a really long time. And I think it's really easy for people to look at the calendar and go, okay, you know, flip that page. We're going to do it now, but we still want to do like our bridal shower this year or are like, we Dorothy's going to like a bachelor party this year. And you know, my fear is that's a really long time then to still feel like your planning, your wedding, if that makes sense, instill, you know, you want the eyes on you and, and, and it to be your time. I just worry. I do worry about that. Like that extending the timeout. Cause I know how long it feels and you guys do like, okay, you know, we're going to book a wedding now for, you know, two years from now or whatever. Like I know what that feels like. And I do think a lot of couples that are postponing aren't necessarily like looking at that. Does that make any sense at all?

(32:19):

Anyway?

(32:21):

Well, I think one thing that's interesting is for most of us, we work with couples for a limited period of time. So they come to us maybe for the sake of the day and we work with them through the invites and then obviously like day on stationary menus programs, whatever signage. But that's, you know, maybe one to two map.

(32:40):

And so for those of us, who've already been working with couples that were doing, say the dates and we've mailed out their invites cause they were planning to get married now. And now they're postponing a year. It's like, Oh wow, we have you as a client so much longer now than we ever anticipated. And that was, that's a weird shift. Not only to we're working with these people much longer, but we're also having to make room on our calendars for them going forward. And it's, it's been a big shift for sure. Yeah. I have to agree. I feel like, you know, it's crazy. I'm like looking at my CRM and I'm like re like want to hit archive on me. So I'm like, well, you know, I think again, it's like, I hate to be that like vague answer, like do what feels right. But it's like, it really is sort of, if you feel like you're not going to get the people there that you want to celebrate and you do want to post one and you want it closer to the event.

(33:34):

Cause I get that notion of like, you know, maybe you're having a bridal shower and people are buying things off a registry and all this thing and celebrating and they're, you know, but you're talking a year or year and a half out before that maybe they make the decision to postpone it or, you know, transfer that bridal shower to the next year. I think it just kind of depends, but that's definitely something that a couple of my brides have asked and my grooms and they, you know, they are just kind of leaning on all the vendors of like, what do we do? And, you know, I hate to write that email every time, like whatever, but I just want to support them with however they want to do it. And you know, I think that etiquette rules have kind of gone out the window this year, purely based on the situation.

(34:20):

I will say that in years past, I probably had a little bit of a firmer stance of like, you probably shouldn't invite 20 girls to your bachelorette. Ben aren't invited to the wedding. But I like, you know, this year I'm like, you know, if it makes sense that this might be the only time that grandma comes, make that decision, like make that what feels right for you. If you already know that some people you like, you don't want to wait that year or you know, that they already have other plans or something like maybe this is the only time you will celebrate with them. So I recommend kind of doing it like on a case by case, but that would be my 2 cents of it. And another thing that you can do too, is you can host your bachelorette or excuse me, your bridal shower this year and whoever's hosting.

(35:04):

It can take care of that. But when it gets closer to your postponed wedding, next year, you can always have your own small event. It doesn't have to be over the top. You can get everybody together for drinks or dinner or something. Maybe like your closest girlfriends or your guy, friends, or even family members that live closer. And you can always add an extra event possibly to onto your wedding weekend before your wedding to sort of you know, like gather everybody together and have that closer to your wedding day experience since

(35:37):

You had your bridal shower, a bachelorette party a year ago. So there's lots of different ways to do it. Like Camille said, you know, you, you don't have to like pigeonhole yourself into a certain format any during this time, maybe in like another three years or something, we might go back to a more traditional stance. But you know, now it really is like, whatever makes you guys happy and whatever does the right thing for you.

(36:02):

Perfect. we have a question from Marissa they've decided to postpone until next year. What, what messaging are you guys putting or what do you recommend for that for, you know, putting it on the website and on it,

(36:16):

Anything to, to kind of let them know that they're know postponing, but let's start with Stephanie.

(36:23):

So we have been doing what's I guess now called a change, the date cards, similar to a save the date. So for a lot of our couples, we produced those for print. Or if they prefer to email them out, cause they want to get them out immediately. That was also an option. And essentially, you know, some have been very wordy and gone into all the reasons as to why they've had to postpone it for health reasons, et cetera, et cetera. And some have just been buried like, Hey, guess what? We're changing the dates. And here it is, we'll see you next year. And she's been very short and sweet. And then it has the, the followup of formal invitation to follow. But I think this is becoming an again, it's such a known thing. This isn't like a rare occurrence that everyone's having to do this. So you know, if you want to be really detailed about the wording, you can, but you don't have to people understand

(37:14):

Anyone else. That was pretty good. Yeah.

(37:18):

I think that covered it.

(37:20):

Yeah. I mean, at first I was sending out super detailed announcements like paragraphs and you were like, nobody's gonna, I mean, this is so long. I think everybody kind of gets it at this point. You really just need to send out, like Stephanie was saying, just like, Hey, we changed our date. Here's our new date, more information on our website done.

(37:39):

Exactly. I think that I've gotten a little wordier with what we're calling my cancellation announcements to essentially uninvited guests. If they've chosen to have a smaller and they've gotten a little bit more heartfelt and wordy about, you know, wanting everybody to be there, but they've had to make a tough decision hope you understand all that stuff. But with the change, the date, it's like literally we took the save the day and just change the date and on the top rope, like, you know, we moved our big day or something like that. Very, just short and sweet if they intend to have the same guest list just postponed to next year. Yeah.

(38:13):

And then you said obviously a little more detailed benefits for uninviting people.

(38:19):

Yeah.

(38:19):

Yeah. I think I've only had three couples do this where they've decided to just limit it to like 20 people kind of a backyard. I have one couple, that's keeping the same venue, but they're just unsure of capacity restrictions. And so they're doing the 50 that is allowed right now and just wanted to get them out. You know, and I actually pulled up what we wrote and I can read it. I'm gonna leave the couple's name out, but they wrote to our family and friends due to the ongoing pandemic and the uncertainty in our future, we've made the difficult decision to dramatically reduce the guest list of our wedding. We are so sorry to have to do this, but at this point we have to, at this point in time, we have to cancel the invitation to our wedding.

(39:01):

We hope you understand that this drastic measure we never expected to have to make. We love every single person we invited to our wedding, and this is truly heartbreaking for us. Please hold us in our hearts on the date as we take our vows to each other, although this is not how we envisioned our wedding. We look forward to celebrating with everyone at a later time, we'll be sure to post some photos at our website and then they list the website, sincerely the bride and groom. So I think they just, you know, and I think anyone receiving that would fully understand. So we just did some timing with sending those out first waited a week and a half, two weeks to make sure people got those and then sent the actual wedding invitation to the, to about 20 people who were coming to the wedding.

(39:42):

That's right. And thank you very much for pulling that up. I think that was really helpful to get that. So thank you for that.

(39:47):

Any other thoughts on that one we'll move on?

(39:50):

No, I think that was really beautifully written too. Like I feel like if I received that I would be very touched and sad, but also completely understanding that. Well then absolutely.

(40:00):

Yes. Kayla is seeking advice. She's having a small family owned ceremony with no reception but she still wants friends and family to join immediately after the ceremony. Kind of an informal after wedding cocktail hour, meet up any suggestions, how to word, save the dates in the way that clearly, but delicately sets expectations for non ceremony guests. So they aren't expecting the traditional wedding invitation to fall. And I will preface this, that the most awkward wedding non-car non-related that I ever did was we had I think they had like do hundred people and they only had like 25 go to the ceremony and it was at the Fremont Foundry down in Seattle. And so they did their wedding on the rooftop with like 25 people. And then everyone else did downstairs and weigh them. And like, they didn't tell them that they weren't coming to the ceremony. And then they like came down. They're like, Oh, welcome to the reception. Like, let's go. And it was like the most awkward thing in the world. So trying to avoid that, how would you, it's Holly, let's start with you cause you're always kind of the center spot. Let's start with you. And how would you, how would you delicately let people know you know, this kind of change of what's going on?

(41:12):

I have actually had somebody do something like this before and what we opted for was to send out two separate invitations. One of which went to the guests that were invited to the ceremony and the reception, and it was more of a formal invitation. And the second option was the reception only invite, which basically said in more or less words than this, you know, we're having a very intimate family, only ceremony, but we would love for you to celebrate with us afterwards. And here's the location, here's the date and the time. And that way, putting it in very clear terms like we're having a very small intimate ceremony. It means, you know, you're not necessarily invited to this, but you are very important to us and we want you there to celebrate with us afterwards. And I think that went over pretty well with most of the guests.

(42:04):

I don't the bride didn't say anything that anybody was upset. You know, most people were very gracious to be invited to or grateful to be invited to the reception afterwards. And we're kind of like, okay, cool. Like we don't really need to be at the ceremony anyway. We want to be there for the party. So that again, depends on the type of I guess the type of event that you're having, if you're having like a huge wedding or something, people might be a little, they might feel a little bit differently than if you're just having like a small wedding and there you're leaving out five people that aren't invited to the ceremony. It might feel a little awkward. So definitely consider your guest list and consider the venue and consider all of these things when you're thinking about how to invite certain people to certain events.

(42:53):

Yeah. I've had to do the exact same thing a couple of times and we've handled it the same way, set out two different invitation suites, one that goes to the ceremony and the reception, and then the other that is just reception forward, which sometimes is even on a different day. And I think just using that word wording of, you know, celebrating the marriage. So you're not coming to the wedding or the ceremony or any of that part. You were celebrating the wedding, the marriage that's already happened. Even if it was five minutes prior. And so then, you know, those people are just invited to the reception and I don't, I mean, I've done it a couple of times. I've never heard negative feedback from it. I think people are still very happy to just be a part of the experience, whether they're they're there for the actual ceremony or not.

(43:39):

I have to agree. I'm a, I'm a big proponent on just not surprising your guest list. You just don't want to have to explain that to somebody on your wedding day. So I think this even like, I've actually, I haven't had a couple who have done the two separate and I'm sorry, I have some background noise right now. This is the reality of renovations. But I also, I sort of take that into consideration for people having just a big, like, I think the tradition now is like there's wedding weekends. Like people are invited to multiple events over the course of a weekend. And even then, like, I don't like putting on a, like family and bridal party event on all the invitations. Like I'm like let's tailor the details' card to the guests that should be getting this, the guests should, who should be getting the rehearsal dinner, you know, just so they

(44:24):

Feel a little bit more

(44:26):

Included in the events that they receive on the piece of paper. Cause I would hate to see like a welcome party and then show up and they're like, Oh, you know, friends and family only, you know, and it's like, you know, we're like bridal party only. And so I'm a big proponent of just like not leaving it up for best judgment calls and just saying like, just make the decision now and we will help you on wording on how to get that out to everybody. But yeah, I think Pauline soccer, you hit the nail on the head. It is just having two separate kind of rewarded elements that go out.

(44:58):

Yeah. I think, I think that's the, one of the probably, and we wanted to talk about this anyway. One of the strongest selling points of working with somebody, you know, to customize your stuff is because yeah, if you're trying to go on EO oil, I don't even know the name, like whatever, to like print all the stuff online, like minted or whatever. And you're like, you're trying to order like 16 different whatever where, you know, like I know I work with like a designer for like logos for the website or like the podcast. Right. And I can say like, Hey, you know, it'd be really great if we could get this, it just like in a different size or whatever, they would take me, you know, a million hours online to do, but obviously working with someone. So I guess it comments on that. Right. Just selling the idea of working with someone, you know, to custom, you know, put together invitations and things like that. And who wants to start with that?

(45:49):

[Inaudible]

(45:49):

I I'm happy to I, I think when it comes to weddings, it's kind of one of those, you don't know what you don't know. And so unless you've ever thrown a wedding before, or you've been participating in someone else's wedding very closely, you don't have all the answers to how this goes down. And luckily we come with years of experience of dealing with all sorts of situations now, including pandemics. So we have a breadth of knowledge that we can give to clients and we can work hand in hand on we can work through these weird sticky situations that, yeah, when you go to just a online vendor, you're just it's plug and play. You're just putting in your information, picking your colors, picking a preestablished design and rolling with that. And that's where a lot of times you do stumble across weird etiquette things or little mistakes or no-nos that typically a station or would tell you like, actually you shouldn't word it this way.

(46:46):

The other thing I think is interesting about stationers is sometimes we do get reduced down to just paper and just the invitations to save the dates. And that paper goes on the day of when really most of us come from design backgrounds or art backgrounds and we're basically problem solvers. So in today's world with COVID, there's going to be all these new situations with, you know, how to recreate the space and make things move differently. Or now you've got tables that feel a mile apart from one another. So as designers we can say, okay, well, let's talk about floor graphics now. And how do we incorporate new artwork? And to making that space feel more comfortable, like more homey and close together, or, you know, you've a plexiglass in front

(47:30):

Of a TJ booth. So we're gonna put your monogram on it or do some interesting artwork there. And so those are customizations we can provide as custom stationers that again, you're not just going to be able to get online

(47:41):

Or even really know that that's an option. Excellent point. Thank you, Holly. Any thoughts? Oh, I have so many thoughts about custom stationary. I think one of my big things that I love telling couples about, and they're always so shocked is what happens after you order them. Like, I don't just send your invitations out to, and I don't know how Camille and Stephanie do their own business models, but I don't send just sheets of paper or pieces of paper out to my couples. I assemble everything for them. You know, I seal everything for them. I put your envelope liners in, I put your belly bands on everything is, is created in house mailed to your guests and you don't have to worry about anything. You don't have to deal with the post office. You don't have to worry that you have enough postage on something you don't have to worry about.

(48:32):

Oh my gosh, did I put the wax seal on the right place? Am I going to get charged more for this? There is a level of wisdom that stationers have that the average person may not have because they haven't been doing this for years and years and they haven't made the mistakes that we have. They haven't learned the lessons that we have. And I think that that is one of our biggest assets. It's, it's what differentiates, you know, the DIY bride from the the bride who wants everybody to kind of take care of everything for her and, and handle all of these, these problems that may come up. And we are in a unique position to do that as custom stationers. Excellent.

(49:15):

Yeah, I agree. I feel like it's, it's like having, you know, just kind of the Butler service for stationary and it's true. I feel like it's not necessarily a brighter groom or groom and groom coming to me and saying, you know, we, we want to do it all. Cause we want to save money. We want to do like, it's just, they really don't know what goes into it. And so part of it is the education portion of like, alright, well when we get it, like we do the wax seal here. You have to put a little piece of vellum underneath. You can't get the wax or the, you know, glue gun to hot, all this stuff. And it's like, I remember one of my very first clients years ago, I like typed out this, like what felt like a 12 paragraph instruction guide on how to like glue in her liners properly, you know? And now I'm just like, okay, we provide assembly services. This is what we do. Or if you really want to do it, you're signing something in my contract that says I'm not responsible for what, how he turned out.

(50:11):

I always kind of explain it to them in the forefront. Like we even take it to the post office for you. We make sure that it's weighed properly. We make sure that, you know, it's hand cancelled or all this stuff that, you know, once they hear that they say, Oh, okay. Yeah, I don't want to deal with that. Like that makes me nervous. So part, it is just telling them it's more than just like looking at an envelope and taking it, you know, putting it in your outgoing mail in front of your house. Like I try and just explain the kind of the process after, like Holly said, after you get the paper. And you know, I think to touch on what Stephanie said is that, you know, people think of us as just paper people. And it's so much more than that. You know, if you, if you really think of the day of it's like you're actually providing both a aesthetic and a function to what you're, you're giving your, you know, well, if someone sends me a Pinterest idea of this kind of table number, I'm like, okay, let's think about this really quick.

(50:59):

You're going to be in a very dark room with metallic on acrylic like that. There's no, backlighting, you're not going to be able to see it. Like most people aren't going to be able to even like read what's on there. Let's think about doing it on a white piece of paper, stuff like that. So both providing some sort of what we've dealt with in the past and also kind of, you know, making it pretty and make sure that it all goes together, but it's like we work with acrylic, we work with wood vinyl, large scale printing, digital you know, even working with the planners and the floors to make sure that a seating chart installation or escort cardboard is being put together. I can't tell you how many times I've been like chopping down woods staining and sanding in my garage for these things. And it's like, it's so much more than just paper. So I think that's kind of the fun part of like to tell them, you know, it's all the different things of, of lettering on seashells and stuff like that. So I think that's a a good point to make to people of like what you get when you work with a custom station or

(51:56):

Well, and like you said especially with, you know, how the receptions are going to be, we don't even really know what they're going to look like, but there is going to be a lot more empty space and trying to figure out, you know, like you said, how to make that table feel like it's, you know, still hold me like a wedding would be with only four people or, you know, however all that's going to look. I do think I didn't even think about that. I think that's going to rely a lot on you guys. You know, as well to come of, come up with creative stuff like that,

(52:24):

For sure. And I do think another benefit of working with a stationer. We are one of the only vendors that works with you from the very beginning to the end that you see actual products come through over a series of time, you know, where if you're working with a florist, you'll work with them for a year, but they don't show up until the day where you're receiving our save the dates and the invitations. And then you're seeing our work again on the day of, and so it's really great when you work with a custom station or because they can guide you through how that should look, how it should feel, how it should grow and keeps all those pieces uniform and together and a consistent aesthetic.

(53:04):

Yeah.

(53:04):

Perfect. you guys have been so gracious with your time. I don't want to hold you up too much longer. I have one final kind of question here and I hope this goes okay. So there's been a lot of questions about, you know trying to save you know, spending money and we're trying to save money now and, you know, re sending stuff. I thought maybe if you guys could give a little tip or something that you guys thought of a way to, you know, we had talked earlier, you know, change in the day, but you'll be able to save little cost cutting measures now that we're trying to redo these weddings next year when it comes to, you know, invitations or save the dates or anything else related to that, you guys, I hope this isn't a disaster, but if you guys have, you know, maybe one and we'll start with Camille, just maybe one you know, tip or suggestion that you have for brides and grooms that are kind of trying to figure this out as it relates to your, your industry.

(53:59):

This is, yeah, it's a tricky one. I would say probably if you have already gone down that design route you know, and we're in there saying like, how can we just make sure we're not having to like reinvent the wheel next year, stick with the original design. And like Holly mentioned earlier I've talked with the printer that I work with and they're offering to extend wholesale costing again. Even if price changes next year. So I've kind of locked in some pricing that they've already approved with letter pressing, foiling, all this stuff. Just so they kind of can budget. So yeah, I would say if you already have gone that design route and have already paid for the design services and have, you know, have basically a digital product in hand, just keep it that way. I think if you go back and start to kind of, well, let's add this card, let's recreate the artwork here, then you're opening that box to another kind of round of design design fees,

(54:54):

Holly. I,

(54:57):

I would say absolutely yes to all of that. If you have already sent something out and you need to let guests know that you're going to be changing your date, but you don't know what your data is. You're unsure about these things. I would definitely go the route of sending out a change the date card that doesn't have a date on it that way you won't have to reprint later, if you do have to end up changing that date again, just make it very clear that all new information can be found on your website and tell your new invitations go out next year or whenever that might be. And that's, that's the best way I can think of to save money, at least change the date wise.

(55:34):

Perfect. Stephanie, anything else?

(55:37):

I think these two really covered it. Yeah. Keep it simple. Definitely just don't add to the situation. And yeah, if your design is established, go with that. If budget is a concern and also just have a conversation with your stationer because a lot of us are offering discounts on reprinting and or if, you know, minor changes have to be made. And also a lot of us are working on tighter timelines now. So we're holding off on printing until the very last second so that you can make those edits. So just keep, you know, open dialogue.

(56:13):

Perfect.

(56:14):

You guys have done such a wonderful job today. I really appreciate this the big episode, number two, I wanted to get this information out there. I really do appreciate you guys taking the time. And it's okay if the is no, any other final thoughts or anything, we'll, we'll make sure everyone's information and everything is, is associated with the podcast and the video and everything else.

(56:39):

One thing I would say, if you do plan to get married in 2021 book your stationers now, because we have all of last year's weddings on our plates for next year. So definitely get in touch earlier than you typically. It's kind of my motto generally. And like, if you are thinking about a wedding book, your stationer, I think people often are like, Oh, I need to make sure my venue and my photographer are available. It's like, your stationery is one of those very first people that you should be booking because people often come to me like, Oh, we're getting married in three months. I'm like, I've been booked for over a year. Like, it's just, it's not gonna happen. So I think timing wise the sooner, the better.

(57:18):

Yeah. I definitely think a lot of you know, a couples, they're going to be planning, you know, new, newly newly engaged or whatever are going to find yeah. Availability across the board is going to be a little tight for next year, just with everybody and especially you know, the seasonality of it. I mean, you guys work, you know, all year, luckily, but you know, for, for us and a lot of the stuff I do think it's going to be tight, so hopefully yes, they'll eat that information. Thank you guys again so much. This has been really great. If you have questions for a future episode of the podcast, you can go to www.bestmadevideos.com/survey, And we have it all organized by a vendor type. And you can, you know, if you, if you have a question, we have some great episodes coming up involving, you know, what to know about live streaming for your wedding we're going to do a similar Q and a with wedding venue owners. And then we have one with DJs coming up, talking about kinda what the receptions are gonna look like in theory coming up and that please make sure to like, and subscribe to the podcast. You can go to www.bestmadevideos.com/subscribe And that, that would be very much appreciated as we get this Best Made Weddings® podcast off the ground here with episode number two. So thank you guys again so much and I guess just stay safe and thanks again. Thanks.

Episode 1 - Wedding Planner Roundtable

(00:00:00):

Hey guys, Reid here. I just wanted to hop on before the episode of the podcast today to do a little bit of housekeeping. I want to thank you so much for checking out our very first episode of our new Best Made Weddings® podcast. It's going to be a really fun adventure, getting to sit down and chat with all sorts of different wedding vendors, about all sorts of topics related to weddings and wedding planning and getting questions from you guys. And I think it's going to be a lot of fun please like, and subscribe to the podcast. As we get started on this new adventure, it's incredibly important to like, and subscribe, leave a review. If you go to www.bestmadevideos.com/subscribe, I have a nice, easy page set up, whether you're an Apple podcast user or on Spotify or SoundCloud there's links there for all of 'em. It's incredibly important. And I really do appreciate all the support that you guys have shown us me over the last two going on three years of podcasting now, and that this is going to be a really fun episode today. So stay tuned. Thanks again.

(00:01:12):

Thank you guys so much for being here today. I was joking with Dorothy before I feel like the most popular kid in school that I asked all of my favorite people to come on and everyone said yes. And so it means a lot to to start this podcast and really you know, bring a lot more education. I think it's incredibly valuable to get to know vendors, you know, in, in long form interviews and talking about themselves. But also I think like, as this is an example today, there's so much knowledge with everybody here and just kind of incredible right there, the resources we have. So to be able to share that we have a lot of good questions today which I'm really excited about to tackle too, which is kind of everything going on. You know, with a lot of reschedules and, you know, the pandemic and everything. But I think that a lot of this information is still going to be relevant, you know, a lot, lots of things, you know, lots of different examples going on, you know, for years to come. So thank you guys so much for coming on. Let's just go around real quick, first off and have everyone introduce themselves. Maybe we can go alphabetical order since that's how I put the episode cover together. So Brianne, we can start with you.

(00:02:22):

Okay. I'm BreeAnn Gale owner of Pink Blossom Events and also chapter president for WIPA Seattle. And I've had my business, or actually this November are celebrating 14 years in business. So in addition to weddings, I specialize in corporate celebrations and milestone birthdays

(00:02:40):

And Jen,

(00:02:42):

I'm, Jen, I'm the owner of Jen Leslie Events. We specialize in the planning design and we also do florals. I had my business for six years now and I'm super excited to be here tonight. Thank you. Hi, I'm Lori Losee.

(00:03:00):

I'm the owner of Elegant Affairs. We're based in the South sound out of Lakewood. This coming August, we'll be in business for 15 years. Primarily we do wedding planning and design

(00:03:11):

And Rebecca, hi there I'm Rebecca Grant and I'm the owner of New Creations Wedding Design and Coordination based out of Snohomish and East side area. I specialize in Asian and Pacific Islander weddings. And I'm also director of membership that

(00:03:26):

This is great. I mean, and just, just the, you know, the knowledge that we have. I'm so excited to really tackle some of this stuff today. First off I think we should just go kind of around the horn and, and, and check in and see how everyone's doing kind of, you know, with everything you know, goods and bads, you know, we just booked another wedding today. Obviously people are still postponing, so why don't we go reverse around and Rebecca start with you just kind of check in and how is everything going so far?

(00:03:56):

Why do you start with me in honesty? It's been a very exhausting, I mean, I I've been a planner for 16 years in total and I can never remember in recent memory, anything that has been emotionally draining for both our couples, as well as us as wedding professionals on a large scale basis. So it's, it's definitely been challenging. I also own my wedding venues, so that adds an extra layer of complexity to getting hit two thirds income wise and two thirds couple wise into getting a lot of reschedules done and a lot of keeping couples happy. I will say within the past, honestly, about two, three weeks, we've noticed a very significant uptick with both planning and venue side of starting to get more inquiries coming through. So I think people are realizing that life can't be put on hold. We still need to move forward and look forward to celebrations and have those moments just to be able to see light at the end of the tunnel and be able to celebrate couples and being able to get married. And Lori, how are you doing?

(00:05:07):

You know, I'm playing the roles of mom business owner and school teacher. We've got less than three weeks left of school. So to have a ninth grader and a seventh grader at least they're old enough that they can do schooling on their own, but it's, it's been really challenging being away from the team, being away from my office working from home all the time. And I feel like, and I don't know what the other ladies, I feel like I'm working literally 24 seven, just because we're trying to catch up with the ever changing news and staying abreast of that with our couples and saying, Hey, this is what's going on. So I just feel like I'm just kind of constantly playing catch up with every single vendor and venue and our couples and just making sure everybody has the right information forward if that's reschedule, keeping as scheduled or knowing that what all the options.

(00:05:57):

So it's just kind of a, kind of a carousel of just moving pieces. And, you know, I see the light at the end of the tunnel we're getting there and I just I'm ready to get back to weddings. I miss it. I feel like a part of me is not here just because we've had one wedding right before the shelter order placed, went into effect in March. And it's, it's weird by this time we've had, we would have had a bunch of weddings and so it's, you know, and then each passing weekend when like, Oh, we should have had this wedding. It's, it's, it's kind of a bummer, but you know, knowing that for the reschedule date, that's going to be even better, there's gonna be a lot of love going on.

(00:06:33):

Okay, Jen,

(00:06:36):

I would echo what Lori and Rebecca said, for sure. It's been a mix of emotions, a mix of feelings. I think I'm kind of at the acceptance phase of, okay, I've got a lot of free time this summer. What am I going to do with? It has been my recent thoughts as well as just trying to, and I know we're going to talk about this more later, but just trying to kind of prepare myself for what does the fall look like? What do we need to be thinking about? And then we're already jumping into next year and helping couples with that. So I have days where I'm still really bummed, like I was supposed to be in sun Valley this week for a wedding this weekend and I was really looking forward to, and you know, it's, it's, it's tough. We empathize with our couples for sure. And just what they're going through, but yeah, just taking it day by day.

(00:07:21):

And BreeAnn,

(00:07:22):

I would say this time it's been hard working with our couples, but I think throughout this, I've learned that I still really love my job, which is as crazy as it's been. And I think as a planner we've been pulled in all directions from, you know, our clients helping, which I feel grateful we can. And a majority of them have been the most appreciative of our services. But I also think, you know, we've been pulled in the direction of vendors asking to pick our brain and know what's happening. So that's been exhausting, but we also are no everything that's happening in every aspect of the industry, which is I think helpful. And it's just nice to be insightful, but I still think after all this, I really, this is what I meant to be doing. So I think that's been just clarifying as well.

(00:08:05):

Yeah. It's so tough. I mean, it definitely for, for all you guys to have to stay up on it. I mean, even just when I was logging on today, you know, Como had posted something about, you know, is King County now in, in, you know, the 1.5 or whatever, and like, you know, immediately people are asking, you know, I think the plan is like, okay, so what's going on, right. Because you guys are kind of just that to collective. And I think that it's so tough. And I think BreeAnn, I think we were on the, one of the WIPA calls or the, you were on and I was watching and it was talking about you know, planners really being hurt the most because a lot of the weddings that we are postponing or rescheduling at this point, like you guys were like at the finish line of like, you know, we got a couple of weeks to go and now, you know, like for me, okay, like, we'll move that date to next year. Okay. That's fine. But like for you guys, it like resets that clock.

(00:08:56):

Well, yeah, we were at the peak. We were already there. Like they were ready to send it, get RSVPs and go down the aisle. I mean, we've done majority of the work.

(00:09:04):

Yeah. So it's just, it's, it's just hard, right. Where you guys it is. It's just like setting it back to zero again and doing that so

(00:09:11):

Well, especially for couples that are potentially changing seasons too, when they moved to next year. So that's something that you're completely changing design boards and changing everything up. They could be going from a June wedding to now March or April. So there's all different changes with that too, which is, has been challenging.

(00:09:28):

Yeah. But I also think too, that's, that's a great point. Lori is talking about the clients because they do have the bridesmaid dresses, the groomsmen and attire. So you don't want to change too much. So it's, how do we change what we have, you know, just adapt a little bit. So what do you have planned for like the summer and how do you make it spring looking? Because we don't want to start all over again. So that's what I'm telling people, because I know our couples are just as exhausted and they don't want to start from scratch. So I'm very much saying, okay, this is what we have. Let's just make a few tweaks and not have to worry about, you know, starting from zero.

(00:10:04):

How do you guys feel the couples and we'll, we'll talk, we'll get into postponing and everything, the couples that you guys still have booked, you know, and like, I know Rebecca, you know, we just sign that one for the end of August. How, how are people feeling now? Are they feeling worried? Still are the ones that we still have going, are they still, and who wants to tackle that first?

(00:10:25):

I'll jump on since we, we just booked that end of August one. Yes. I mean, absolutely. There is definitely nervousness amongst the remaining couples from this year. And I've even gotten a couple of couples that are in 2021 that are saying, well, what is this gonna look like? And I'm like, Oh my gosh, I can't even wrap my head around this year. Like, I'm not, you're not even on my radar right now. Let's cross that bridge when we come to it. But yes, I mean, I just had two of my largest events that both were supposed to be an October reschedule to next October. And so it's, you know, so far the majority of August on has hung in there. These two in particular were just, I guess, guest counts, biggest dollar amounts. Most people coming in from out of state that just got really nervous.

(00:11:13):

And so they decided to, to both pull the trigger and postpone to next year. So that does, of course come with a little bit more of a financial hit for couples that are getting just kind of that nervousness because it is a voluntary reschedule. And so having that peace of mind of moving into next year and just feeling a little bit more safe with guest counts and plans in place there are some vendors of course, that do have a reschedule fee. Obviously that's a longer time that I'm working with them. We're now into a two year engagement instead of a one year engagement. So there's a lot of logistics that go along with that, but yes, for the rest of the year, there is definitely a lot of nervousness for sure.

(00:11:54):

Go ahead, Jen.

(00:11:55):

I was just going to, I'm sure the other planners have this situation as well, but we have a couple that was supposed to get married this Saturday, early June. They postpone to late September, but are now getting concerned about late September. And so it's then walking through the process again and trying to kind of like Rebecca mentioned, work through the different fees with the different venues or venues and kind of what they're doing and just trying to reassure them that yes, you did make the right call at the time and you're just working with information that you have. And I know it's really heartbreaking for them and just frustrating to have to go through the whole situation again.

(00:12:32):

Well, and that's exactly what we're doing too, is that we had a couple that were supposed to get married, May 3rd rescheduled to August 9th. And now we're talking tonight and saying, what are all our options? And for me being done in here in Pierce County, you know, cross our fingers, hopefully we're going to be moving into phase two this week, but that all changes between us King County and Snohomish County, which are three big counties that we're doing things in. So it's knowing the information from all the counties and saying, okay, well in Pierce County, we know we should. And that's the hard thing is putting quotations. We should be in this phase by this point and King County, it's kind of one of those will they move into, you know, 1.5 are they going to move into too? So it's hard when you have, you know, different couples in different areas. You know, and you know, we sell the July couple that is pretty gung ho holding their wedding and they're, you know, adaptable to move to, you know, under 50 people, if we get into phase three by the end of July. So it's just a lot of, you know, couples that are, want to be overprepared and couples are like, we're going to go forward and we will just have to adapt if we have to elope well low and then we'll have a party later.

(00:13:43):

Yeah. It's hard. We had a, one of the Dorothy's good friends was going to get married in October and she, you know, they have they're like our age. They have a lot of like elderly, you know, her mom and dad are older. And so you know, they've already postponed. I mean, you know, when, when she had talked to me and I was like, you know, Natalie you're, I have weddings that have rescheduled to, you know, like the Friday, like they were going to be October 3rd. I said, you know, my may, whatever already moved to October 2nd. And now you're already worried. I mean, are you guys worried about that, that domino effect? And we have a lot of questions from the audience. You know, I was actually really surprised you know, pleasantly happy to, to get some we, you know, we had this question from faith and she said, yeah, what are the pros and cons of postponing versus attempting this fall wedding? I'm pretty set on mine happening in September, but I don't quite know what that will look like. Do I tactfully uninvite people to reduce guest count? I mean, what are you guys and maybe we could start with Brianne and work back around. What are you guys advising, you know, for, for fall weddings now,

(00:14:44):

I think right now it's just being realistic and setting where we don't have answers. I know Rebecca and I specifically on an association

(00:14:52):

That's, you know, has direct contacts with people working with the government and, you know, trying to get answers. And we don't have those yet. So being honest with our clients, but also giving them options because not everyone is in a position that wants to postpone or reschedule. And so if they do want to choose to have the wedding, which I think, you know, that's great, but it's knowing that you might have to be flexible and incorporate different safety measures for this year or reduce your guests count. But I think the whole, you know, and also reevaluating the reason behind the wedding is it, you know, just because you guys want to get married and it's the love, and you can have an intimate group and still be as happy because we've all, all of us on here, I've done intimate weddings that have probably been some of the most meaningful to this day. So you can have that fabulous event. But if it is something where all of your guests are traveling out of town and you want that big party, then that's when you might consider, you know, postponing. But I don't think you have to,

(00:15:54):

Jen, what do you think

(00:15:55):

Exactly. Bran nailed it. We've been asking our couples that question of what is the most important thing to you? Is it getting married or is it the big celebration of a party and there's definite benefits to both, for sure. I can eat that. I can relate to that. So our couples have been kind of chosen to go one way or the other, depending on how they want to answer that everyone's financial situation is also very different. I think we're family and friends are, are traveling to, and from plays a factor into this. A lot of Seattle's a great place to live a lot of, or the greater Seattle area. And I think a lot of our couples have only lived here for maybe a couple of years. So everybody was going to be coming to Seattle as a destination to begin with. So that's things to kind of consider and still really personal decision. So I think just walking them through here are your options one way or another and helping them just look at whatever facts we have at hand and then giving them time and space to make that big decision,

(00:16:58):

Or what do you think?

(00:16:59):

No, I totally agree with Jen. I think too, it is presenting your, your couples with all the information. So they feel like they're there, they're empowered to make the decision. You know, the last thing we want is the couples to be forced to say, well, we're, we're kind of already beyond that point where you're going to have to, you can't hold your wedding. So we want to make them feel like they are making that decision, rather the decisions being made for them. You know, when we had our wedding in March, we went from an a 10 day span when all this came about, we went from 171 guest count to 41 so that we can include vendors. And that was important for the couples that we were at the finish line. And, you know, they didn't have a lot of, lot of people coming in from out of state, a lot of people coming even from Eastern Washington.

(00:17:43):

And so they decided to, to live stream their wedding on YouTube and it worked out and, you know, she saying is like, you know, I feel like I'm gonna miss the whole, you know, big, big wedding and that's end of the day, she's like, you know, I loved having the small intimate wedding. It was the most amazing thing. And plus too, she goes, we went from 21 tables down to six tables and all of her centerpieces were just lavish. And she's like, I couldn't have gotten this regardless. So she, so it worked out in that way, but again, it's making the couples feel like they have the power in making the decision for them. And we're also in a time to gasser being understanding with that particular wedding, you know, uninviting a lot of people, they were okay with it. I think at a different time, if you're having to cut for budgetary reasons, people are like, well, why, why am I getting the kind of the list, but now people are totally understanding or giving that option. Like, do you feel comfortable coming to our wedding? And that's the other thing is we've been telling our couples is that, you know, your wedding could look a whole a lot differently. Even going into October, November, people are, you know, could still be wearing masks at that point. And you know, what is that going to look like? And do you feel comfortable and do your guests welcome?

(00:18:58):

Yeah. So we're offering the same thing. We're just really having those conversations with couples kind of coming up on the cusp of possibly being affected. What is the priority to you? Is the priority getting that, you know, getting married and having that done and just the celebration of starting your new life together, or is the priority of the big party? One of the things that I have been informing my couples that okay, if the big party is the priority to you, we still don't know what weddings are going to look like even into 2021. So we're banking on the fact that, okay, hopefully all this will be behind us, you know, into 2021, but we don't know. So I want people to be realistic in the fact that even though we're postponing to try and have kind of what your wedding would have been in 2019, we don't know if it's going to look that way in 2021.

(00:19:47):

So I think it's also just kind of being that reality check of like, we want to support you in whatever direction you want to go, but just know we don't know what that landscape is going to look like. On the flip side of that, I have had couples that the wedding is totally their priority and they have downsized their guest list in order to accommodate ideally moving into phase three where we can have up to 50 people. And that has been quite well as Lori mentioned that families completely understand. And if they want to have a big party later on, so be it, but at least like they know the phase of life that they're in right now and kind of viewed that we're in and just needing to understand that it's going to look a little bit different right now and families get it.

(00:20:35):

I've had several couples move to midweek which I'm really thankful of as a vendor. Cause of course, that frees up the ability to book the weekend, but guests have, they totally understand, like they're like, we're totally going to make this work no matter what. And that's been really refreshing to see that couples are, you know, your wedding day is affected anyway. So move it to midweek. Like you can keep your entire vendor team intact. You can have cheaper rates a lot of the times. So like why not? You know from a personal standpoint for those of you that know me personally, I've been married twice. My first wedding was way back in 2000. And it was huge and it was impersonal and I didn't get to see everybody that I even was there in attendance. And when I had the opportunity to get married a second time in 2010 it was my wedding and it was the people that were the core of is important to us. And we had 80 people and it was great and it was lovely and everything that we wanted it to be decor wise and family wise and feeling wise. So those are kind of my experiences as we've processed bridge

(00:21:54):

Related to that with the downsizing. I know that obviously you guys have said, you know, families are really understanding and friends. Does anyone have any other advice on that? That was a question that came up a lot was just generally, you know, how to handle that. Does anyone else have any other thoughts on that that we haven't touched on?

(00:22:11):

Well, I think, you know, as was mentioned before, people are going to be relieved if they don't have to come a few people. So I think like Lori said, when you're asking a very comfortable, like, if there are, I think at this day, it doesn't hurt to ask, or you're going to hear through the grapevine. Like this family is not comfortable to travel because they're overseas or they have somebody who doesn't have the best health conditions to be in attendance. But I also think a nice note card, or even most of my couples have even chosen just a personal phone call to let them know that their guests count has changed because they want it to be personal. So I think just that personal touch to say, look, this is where we're at. We've had to reduce to only close or even just immediate family and some families. And so people are understanding. And I think as long as you make that personal connection you know, I don't think there's going to be hard feelings right now.

(00:23:03):

Yeah. And I do know a lot of stationaries have come up with specific templates or phrases scenes to be able to help couples through what they're going to send out to their guests. So I do think it does need to be, if you can, a little bit more of a personal approach, like what breathe in with having that direct wrong call, but then follow up with something in the mail in writing. And yeah, a lot of, a lot of local Seattle stationers are willing to help with that. Another, Oh, go ahead, Jen. Sorry. Sorry. Clear communication is most important. So make sure once you have made that decision, that you're being really thorough in your communication and you're updating your wedding website, maybe you're doing a phone

(00:23:46):

Tree. If you can't get to everybody right away. And you're kind of under a time crunch, I'm sending emails as well. It would not hurt to do all three of those options just to make sure that people know what the plan is and they feel considered and, and thought of through this difficult time.

(00:24:04):

Yeah. And I was just going to add, I think, you know, we tell all of our couples to make sure they have a wedding website and obviously we've had a lot of couples reach out to us and say, you know, how do we handle, you know, friends and family and guests like constantly calling, texting saying, you know, wedding taunted, you know, that stresses them out. So we put a little blurb on your website. This is where we're at. And I think too is, you know, people all just want to be part of, you know, the knowledge base. And I think, you know, if any guests are listening you know, be respectful of the couples just because they're already so stressed out about this, the last thing they need to have is just been to be bombarded with questions or like, I really feel like you should cancel. And we've had couples that have had family and friends say, you know, we really think that this is the next step. And then they're like, well, should we do that? Should we not do that? So it's just, you know, communicating with your gas while also guess respecting your decisions that you make. Cause then they didn't, they don't need to come to your wedding if they don't feel comfortable. This is the couple's decision to make.

(00:25:06):

Yeah. No, and that's a good point. I'm glad that you brought up about the stationaries and stuff. That that'll be our, our episode next week. I'm so excited to have a gang of you know, different, you know, invitation designers and things to talk about lots of that stuff. Cause you know, obviously besides, you know, spending a lot of money on that stuff and wanting it to look good, it is like, how do we tactfully? Like, you know, what, what do you send and what do you do? So I'm so glad. Yeah. But that will be stuff we touch on next week too. So that's great. The, the other thing I wanted to talk about moving into later this year you know, is an, obviously we do not know, but you know, what, what weddings are going to look like? I know I'm one of the WIPA calls that I was on, you know, they were talking about having to either put families together or you know, a signed CD with things. I mean, how do you guys, or are we not even at that point yet to start visualizing that stuff? And maybe we could start with Jen and then go kind of we'll figure out in order from there.

(00:26:06):

I'll be very honest. I have not even dived into this too much yet for a couple of reasons. One, we still have a ways until our wedding, our first weddings of the year are occurring and things are moving so quickly and changing that I'm monitoring things and keeping notes, but not implementing anything yet just to wait until we know what is, what phase we're in and what's happening. We also have weddings in multiple different counties. So as Laurie kind of touched on earlier, there's this added pressure to now be knowledgeable about everything in every County and what's happening. So trying to wrap my brain around that and keep it organized and keep my team up to date on what's happening with their particular weddings in different locations. So yes, we're thinking about all those things. We're thinking about less people per table, spacing out the tables a little bit more hand sanitizing additional stations or having a couple of providing hand sanitizer, talking with the vendors around what protocols are they taking and what safety precautions are they putting into place. But I, I don't feel like I have this perfect answer grasp on all of that just yet. Cause I'm still a couple like two and a half months out before our first one. So it's, it's on the forefront, but not quite there yet.

(00:27:26):

I that's BreeAnn and I, I think I am having those conversations with couples, but also not, you know, when they're comfortable to talk about it too. So you know, I think just kind of waiting, but when, until we see actual facts to be, for me to say anything specific, but I think when they have concerns, I'm happy to address those. And I know Rebecca and myself, and two other wedding planners put together a blog series and planning your wedding during the pandemic. And one of them did include safety measures to consider. And so that I think is things that we've done some research just to say, this is what weddings we think might look like and what things to incorporate just to be. So that's on their mind as they're mulling over their decision. Cause I think people are antsy. So the more information we can give now, but I think it's just keeping them in the loop when we find out information is helpful and being positive, but also realistic.

(00:28:26):

And for us, we're really working with the venues and just saying, you know, what are you doing? You know, PP, PPE wise, in terms of, you know, will you be responsible for, you know, fishing and pan and what is your menu and service of your top? And then working our way down again, kind of leading that conversation in some of our early weddings. And then for later on, couples were just kind of just, if they bring it up, we'll kind of go on with that again with different counties and the different restrictions. It's, it's hard to keep track, but as long as the couples feel comfortable and confident in moving ahead and just knowing, you know, again, like what Jen said is just taking, you know, ample notes. I'm like, okay, here's County, we're gonna have to do this. Can Canterbury have to do that. And things like that and not worry, we're going to have to change for layouts. But I'm not going to get things set in stone because again, things are gonna change, you know, as we move forward further into the summer and into the fall. So I actually have a little bit different perspective on this since I do own my own as well.

(00:29:42):

And we are starting to get calls from parents and things like that. Luckily we are outdoor venue with very low touch amount of surfaces. So we have that benefit once we do officially reopened, but we're also of course watching what Snohomish County is doing and what they're going to mandate. So I personally have taken on the responsibility of bringing all this new mission, new owners together, I thing on my plate, but trying to really get a collective group together to really petition our council members as well as petition the Snohomish County health department to say, we want to be proactive about this. We want to know ahead of time, what we need to have in place in order for when we reach whatever fave opening we're at, we can be ready. And that way we're not losing even more weddings given the fact that we're now having to work slash we have to scramble and get all these XYZ in place now, which is now affecting weddings that technically could have happened, but because we didn't have the pieces in place beforehand.

(00:30:44):

Now, we now they can't. So I'm taking on that and they're probably really tired of hearing from me up in Snohomish County that I feel the more noise we can make and really get weddings on our council members and politicians radar, the better for all of us in terms of what I'm directing or my couples on the planning side, it's, again comes down to that comfort level. You know, I'm, I'm telling them what I'm doing from the planner perspective, and then let's have those deeper conversations of what is your cater proactively doing? What is your bartender proactively doing, et cetera, et cetera, but ultimately in my opinion, and it might be the minority opinion, which is totally fine. All of the guests that choose to come to the wedding are adults and they will take on whatever responsibility and whatever role that they feel comfortable with. So as long as I'm protecting myself and my team and my vendors and my couple, that is what I'm concerned about. Guests can, you know, obviously we'll, we'll follow whatever guidelines we need to follow. But I do trust that yes, we'll take care of themselves and, and be respect respectful to the couple, knowing what the rules are in place and knowing that this is affecting their wedding day.

(00:32:01):

That's great. Yeah, no, it's a talking with the, like you said, talking with the County. I, I, it was on one of the WIPA calls and it's clearly like my only knowledge outside of any research I do. But one of the planters who was saying that you know, one of their, they had talked to their governor and like, they hadn't even thought about weddings, right. That someone had written a letter and whoever it was, whatever state and they're like, Oh, we hadn't even thought about that. That it was like Illinois or somewhere over there. And you're like, wow, like, that's crazy to think that, like, I dunno, it's just, yeah. So, so it definitely

(00:32:33):

It's our world, but it's not theirs. And I think the more we can have a seat at the table of how to say three

(00:32:40):

Open and the policies and procedures that are in accordance with how events specifically run the better off we're going to be.

(00:32:48):

I agree. And I know Reed, there was kind of a question on, you know, safety, you know, as we were talking about PBE and who's responsible, I think like Rebecca did say people are going to make their own decision, but I do feel as vendors, we need to consider it for weddings this year. I think it's going to be just health requirements. Catering is absolutely. They will be wearing masks. They will be wearing as much protection as possible. So couples do need to realize that is going to happen. I know majority of wedding vendors as well will be covered. I'm wearing mass. I will be wearing a mask at events for this year just to protect myself. And if I have an event the next weekend, I need to make sure I'm staying healthy. And so I think all of us, there's a majority, you know, a number of people that are going to be getting their temperature taken.

(00:33:37):

Some are going to go get tested before an event. So there's lots of things that people are making their own personal choice. And I think for guests, we cannot require them to wear anything, but, you know, they can advise, but I think it's up to each couple, how they want to, you know, have their event and host it. And as a vendor we can choose to be there or not. If we feel it's not safe obviously that would be financial, you know, that would financially be a burden. But I think if a vendor isn't comfortable, that's their choice and they have the right to, you know, have somebody else in their place.

(00:34:12):

And I think back to the question we were talking about earlier around postponing versus having an intimate wedding now being realistic, like everyone is mentioning about what a wedding right now could look like, are you okay if everyone is in masks and what that looks like? And I think couples just really need to think about that. I don't, I think some are, I just don't know if all of them are thinking that through and from what I've heard the most the masks is kind of the biggest thing that visual and not wanting the wedding focus to be around the Corona virus. And, Oh my gosh, we're all here. This is kind of the first thing, you know, we're out in the world again. But the focus should be on the couple and their love and the celebration that we're having. And so how do you balance those? I don't have an answer. I'm just kind of reiterating what everyone's saying, but you know, how do you balance that? And, and how as a couple and vendors do we prepare for that and think about that. So, yeah, it's, it's tough. This is definitely something none of us have ever prepared for.

(00:35:15):

Yeah. It's tough. I, I don't leave the house a lot, you know, I work from home and that Dorothy goes to the, to the store and I had to go to the dentist last week. It just happen that, you know, the cleaning slide up with whatever and, you know, and I had the mask and I was like, walking on the moon, you know, like what is going on? Like where is, you know, cause, and like you said, you know, people venturing out, it could be, you know, one of the first, really big times that people have gathered, right? Some of these August weddings will definitely be probably the biggest gathering that a lot of these people have been to in a long time. And so that is that's a great point to, to not have the focus beyond that. One of the questions we got it and Brianne kind of touched on this too. I'm kind of reading my mind was people are talking about, you know, like waivers or do, do you know, do guests sign waivers or do, did the venue or, or what, you know, what is that, I mean, have you guys I don't know, has, has any thoughts been put into that yet? Cause I really don't know. Rebecca, do, I guess we'll start and then we'll loop around. Sorry. I always,

(00:36:18):

Okay. So I actually know three of us on this call have, have purchased waivers that we will plan on having our couples sign. We, I feel like because we are kind of at the helm of where couples are at we are in charge of kind of directing them and advising them without making the decision for them. So if they decide to move forward in this climate, you know, we, we want to protect ourselves as business owners. This is our only source of livelihood. And if we are putting that on the line, we want to be sure that we're as protected as possible. If somebody were to get sick or things like that. So yes is the short answer to that is I will be having my planning couples for this year sign waivers

(00:37:09):

And in what in what regard or what, what, you know, what, I don't know, what is too many details, but in what, you know, in what context,

(00:37:17):

The biggest thing is just I don't want to get sued. You know, I mean, let's, let's just cut it, cut to the chase right here. If somebody were to be able, however they could to directly trace back getting sick to that couple's wedding I don't want it to come back onto myself as well. Our planner told us we could have our wedding because it's safe. Well, no, I didn't like I we're, we're all trying to be very, very careful about the verbiage we use specifically because of that. We cannot make the ultimate decision for our couples. It is totally their choice and their comfort level. And then like Brian was mentioning earlier vendor's individual choice to be able to make that decision for them. But in terms of like, we, we cannot lose our livelihood over this. We're already hurting enough through it financially. So if somebody were to come back and see us saying you had us do our wedding, you know, it's just trying to protect us as much as possible from a vendor perspective. Yeah. And to follow up on that, it's really just, it's just a chance for our clients to look at and go, okay, we are acknowledging there's a pandemic we're hosting event. We are the host of this event. You know, that's really what it is to make sure they just consider and know what they're doing. And not that we're that's wrong,

(00:38:35):

But we're just saying that it's their personal choice to host this event.

(00:38:40):

Jen, do you have any thoughts on that?

(00:38:42):

Nope. Well said anything else? No, I think that's perfect. And I, I think most couples are totally understanding of that too. And you know, at the end of the day, like what, you know, both Rebecca and Brianne said is that we need to protect our business and you know, God, God forbid something does happen. You know, we're protected that way.

(00:39:01):

The, the other thing that has been talked about a lot, and this was even before, I mean, this was back in March, you know, when we were talking about all like the forest measure and everything, all these things started coming up, you know, you know, wedding insurance and what does that cover? And, and I know that I had put that in the notes. I didn't know if anyone had any specific thoughts on that. Rebecca is raising her hand. So go,

(00:39:21):

Yeah. So I want to specifically address force majeure because that is something that is getting thrown around a lot from our couples. And I think that it just needs to be put out there civically what that means. So force majora truly means pause in service. It means if there's a hurricane that comes through, you obviously can't have your wedding during that timeframe, but you can have it after the venue rebuilds and you can have it after everybody's working again. Same thing if there's a fire after the venue rebuilds yada yada yada. So it's truly as if the governor or Washington state government is saying, you cannot have your wedding. That is the only time that we are in a Chu forest for an indefinite amount of time, because we know that the time is somewhat finite, given other countries, given the history of this, you know, COVID and what that's looking like, and the scientists that are working on getting cures or lessening symptoms or whatever that might look, we do know that this is for a finite amount of time.

(00:40:27):

So therefore couples do have the opportunity to move their wedding date to an extended date, which again is what most couples are opting to do. But if, if as a couple you're looking at a vendor contract, well, this is a force majeure. It's not, we are giving you the opportunity to reschedule your date. And then if you take the choice to cancel your wedding, because you're just nervous about it or finances or whatever the case might be, we certainly don't hold that against you. But just to know that you're going to probably fall under a cancellation policies on contracts versus under a force majeure,

(00:41:09):

Anyone else?

(00:41:10):

I think Rebecca answered, I mean, answer answered it. I know as planners we've been involved in lots of conversations about contracts with every vendor and yeah, I think Rebecca kind of covered it.

(00:41:23):

That's really our on, and this was another question that came in and just obviously, you know, everybody's handling things differently. You know, with, in terms of, you know, are there fees, are we, you know, whether we doing and where you guys are seeing a lot of value, I think it would be good to kind of go around the horn just to get just a little bit of thoughts about that. You know, I had emailed all of my couples back in March and I said, very specifically, you know, every single wedding is going to be handled on a case by case basis that, you know, no one, like I said, you know, w with our friend that postponed and I told her the same thing. I said, you know, you, you can't feel bad about postponing your October wedding right now while people are still, you know, everyone has different, you know, guests that are coming in and we have couples, you know, that have guests coming from overseas or whatever, you know, everybody's different. So how are you guys handling that and negotiating that, you know, I know Lori, we had a client, you know, that we, I had to go through, you know, stuff with you about, you know, rescheduling fees and how are you guys handling that? And maybe we'll start with Laurie and go down.

(00:42:25):

You know, again, it's a case by case basis. I feel like we've only had to do one rescheduling fee and that was just because they postpone their wedding really early in the process not knowing where we're going to be at. And so we had that conversation with the specific planning package they were having that effectively, we were extending the contract for a full extra year. And that what that was going to look like in terms of outside of the scope of what they originally contracted us for, it's arming our clients with all the education. So if they are postponing is so that they know what steps, and they're not going to be surprised like, Oh, now you're having to pay X amount and we didn't know about it.

(00:43:06):

Yeah. Well, we lost a little bit about your answer in there. The internet was cutting out a little bit, but I think, I think we got what you were saying with the, you know, case by case, I guess just where you guys are kind of navigating all the vendor policies, right. Obviously you guys are seeing that across the board. Are you how are couples handling that with, with, you know, fees or not, or how's that going?

(00:43:28):

I, well, sorry, Jen. I was, yeah. So I would say it depends if the reas, if the wedding let's say was during may or June, there's a huge difference if you're rescheduling a wedding, because ultimately you can not have it that I don't think people are. I mean, across the board, there's not going to be rescheduling these for the most part. But again, it's case by case. Cause it depends when they're rescheduling. And I think every again, every wedding is different and every vendor is different, but there are fees that are not refundable. And I think our contract says a lot, but also it does say if the weddings are being rescheduled in this calendar year versus 2021, where vendors are going to be losing out on expected income because they are moving those events. And so I think that's when rescheduling fees do apply. And I think it's, you know, every vendor has the right, what they feel is best for them financially and what's in their contract. But it is hard

(00:44:32):

Because every wedding is different. Jen. Yep. Definitely. We've seen on the vendor side of things, a little bit of everything, I've seen some vendors that have asked for a portion of the final payment, or let's say they were going to make, they've already made a 50% deposit and they're going to pay the final as it gets closer to the wedding. We've seen some want to charge part of that this year on their original wedding date and then have postponed, let's say that last 25% to a new date if they postpone to next year. We've seen quite a few of the vendors just transfer over that final payment deadline and just write up a new contract one at the end of the contract with the new date on the planning side of things like we talked about earlier on the call, we're in kind of a unique situation because we done a lot of the work prior to the wedding and the wedding day is kind of just the wrap up for us in a way.

(00:45:29):

So I know for me personally, I've been evaluating each of our clients who are choosing to either postpone or whether that is to this year or next year we've been evaluating, you know, how much work has been done today, where are we in the planning process and what are the current States or, you know, what phase are we in and what are the current mandates for that particular wedding? Versus like Brianne was mentioning of, they're just getting nervous and they could potentially have their wedding in October. And we've also seen a little bit of everything. We've had some couples that have just outright canceled. We've had some completely changed their scope and do an intimate wedding this year and more of a cocktail style wedding reception next year. And then we've seen the full postponements till next year. So it's too hard to say, Oh one option for everybody because just like every wedding is unique, every situation that we're encountering,

(00:46:26):

Any other thoughts on that deal? Yeah. I agree completely with all the ladies of, of having unique to each vendor, any couple directly what their priority is and kind of what they're wanting to do. For me personally, I have charged my reschedule fee for a couple do a Saturday on my peak summer months. So that's going to be July through September. Cause obviously that's our only ability, not only ability to make money, but that's the peak of our ability to make a living if we're lucky two years off of one year salary. So it's, it's a lot for us to take on financially to be able, we want to accommodate, but it is varies. I can't find this all to be able to still live and keep our businesses afloat. In addition to that, the couples that are facing, I really, really want to make sure that they're understanding that there's options.

(00:47:25):

You don't need to cut your, your vendors completely. And keep in mind again, this is your vendors only Leehood. So you're down and say is the wedding. And now all of a sudden the scope of florals is less. The scope of catering is less and you're less than retainer or you're choosing to cancel altogether. And that vendor saying, I need to keep my non-refundable retainer. Cause that's what contractually, what you agreed to. Don't think of it as a loss of, in a different way. It doesn't have to be to a wedding. It can be allocated to, if you want to send your mom flowers for the next three months, go for it. If you want to.

(00:48:10):

Okay.

(00:48:10):

Pretty key by your theater. Absolutely. That's allowing that vendor to be able to retain that money that has been paid to them and that they are relying on for their income. And it's also getting you the benefit of being able to still utilize their services without feeling like it's lost.

(00:48:28):

Yeah. The tough thing with the, with the downsizing is yeah. You know, where you're, you know, you contract for this big thing. And then we even had one Oh, they, they were getting married in July and they're moving, but they were like, well, if we, if we get married we do a little ceremony this July at can we like split the hours with you and the next year and like, okay, well now I'm like, you know, that's like two days, you know, that we're reserving, you know, and we ultimately, you know, they, they rescheduled us the next year. They, Rebecca that, and I wanted to talk on this too, is about you know, like I've been charging fees, you know, rescheduling, you know, to prime dates next year is, you know, it sounds like that's the same. Are you guys how are you guys navigating that with your couples?

(00:49:12):

This is a big one that I wanted to talk about with, you know, utilizing not may to August or whatever, right. Like utilizing Fridays or Wednesdays or off season, like, cause you know, so many of ours have been okay, well we were eight, eight this year and we want to be eight, seven next year and you're like, wow, okay. Like you said, that's, you know, two years off of this. So how are you guys? And Lori, maybe we'll start with you or how are you guys are you trying to talk with couples about those different options?

(00:49:43):

Well for us each I have an associate planner, Lisa and we only do one wedding per weekend. It's just more sanity for me, obviously that may change next year, but we do have couples that are moving. This year that have postpone have picked a Monday, Thursday and Friday. So, and luckily we didn't have anything that weekend anyway. Or we were able to have Lisa do the wedding or if it was Lisa's client that I could do it. So we're being very flexible that way. But again, communicating with our clients is

(00:50:14):

It's a gen a jet.

(00:50:18):

Yeah. I wish I had been a little more strict from the beginning about this. I think it was like, Oh, well culminate, anything we want to work with you. And then as

(00:50:28):

Time went on and was like, Oh wait a second. Now all my prime Saturdays, I've been booked with not net new clients with justice 2021. So doing a little bit of backtracking with that, but we got really lucky where as Lori was mentioning, a lot of our clients as well are postponing to Sundays or Thursdays. And so while we also typically take one wedding a weekend, I can definitely see myself working a Thursday wedding and a Saturday wedding that feels a lot more doable than, than back to back and not being able to be at, you know, two ceremony, ceremony, rehearsals, and things like that. So that's been really helpful. And then I have a team as well. There's two other associate planners on my team. So I have been so thankful to have a team because some of the dates that guests have postponed to one of my associates is not available so I can take it on and vice versa.

(00:51:20):

And we I've just been in communication with them on like, you know, I know we normally go over the schedule for next year, a little bit later in the season, but we're doing it sooner, given everything and just trying to kind of be accommodating. But there are already, I know three specific weekends in my head for next year that were already completely booked. The whole team is so it's thinks that's not what I would choose with not having those filled with all brand new clients. But I also understand that none of us saw this coming. You know, our clients didn't ask for this, we didn't ask for this. So just trying to kind of be a little more tactful moving forward and encouraging all day options as we've talked about before today,

(00:52:05):

Brianne,

(00:52:07):

I would say, I think it's, you know, just advising them. I think fees make a difference too. So letting people know if they're choosing more off season, you know, vendors are more flexible and not charging those rescheduling fees. Whereas if it's a prime day, there is that rescheduling fee. But I also look at as the perspective of them. I mean, none of us expected this, our clients, you know, everyone, it's not our choice. But from their perspective, a majority of my clients are from out of state. And so with traveling in, it's been difficult where, you know, weekends are going to be, you know, what's best for them. But also I think giving them options that if somebody is willing to travel in for the weekend, they could miss like a Monday of work or, you know, something like that. But I think we just need to be flexible and work with clients because it's an emotional time for them. And I think if we're saying you can only book, you know, midweek or off peak, then it's just going to cause a bit more attention for another year of planning. So I think it's just all around being open and giving the reality of where they are if it's going to be, you know, off season or peak season

(00:53:16):

Rebecca.

(00:53:17):

Yeah. Surely, you know, again, agreement with all the other ladies. But for me in particular, again, the only time I'm actually sticking

(00:53:26):

To my reschedule fee is if a peak, Saturday has chosen anything else, free of charge, no problem. I'm happy to reschedule you. One of the things that I've been noticing, and I'm not sure if the other ladies can speak to this or not, but a lot of vendors actually don't have a reschedule in their contract. I, I did. So I am protected contractually to have that already existing. The expectation was already set upon signature from the get go. But it's been interesting to see those that are trying to be like, well, I would really love to have her reschedule me cause this is taking a course, you know, a date is now being unable to be booked, but legally and contractually, there was nothing in place beforehand. So it's, it's kind of being caught in the middle a little bit as a planner because you of course want to advocate for your couple, but you also completely understand the vendor's side and for vendor perspective of, you know, the financial aspect of now giving up two dates out of inventory.

(00:54:28):

So it's been interesting to kind of navigate that line as well and be like, and I think a lot of the other vendor teams when I'm trying to move entire teams over, I've gotten a lot of feedback of like, well, what are all the other vendors doing? You know? And so it's, it's, I think that herd the herd mentality, right? Of like, well, if no one else is charging, I don't want to charge. And then I have been very candid and said, you know, I had it in my contract pre COVID, so I am charging. But if you didn't have that, then I, I cannot hold the client's feet to the fire and say you have to pay. So it's been interesting to never go ahead, Jen. Yes.

(00:55:12):

Any vendors listening, if you could please take this time to make sure you have reviewed your contracts, make sure the date is clear at the top of when the event is occurring, that the services are really clear. I can't tell you how much time I spend combing through different vendor contacts, trying to find the information that I need for my clients. And it's not there. Or like Rebecca mentioned, their cancellation policy is extremely weak and does not have a lot in there. I mean, you are only doing yourself a disservice by not having that updated. And it doesn't mean it needs to be ironclad and 12 pages long or anything like that. I mean, we can still be human beings and reasonable, but man, it has been shocking to see the contracts that are coming through and then the pushback that some vendors have been trying to give when it's like, you don't have anything to stand on when your contract is full of holes like this. When I think, and I think for, at least for our team is, you know, the one positive that's come out of this is we've really kind of looked at our contract and figure it out. Okay. If this and that

(00:56:25):

Ben are not doing any contract addendums or we're not doing any new contracts. So for me, that makes me a little nervous when there's not something new. Yes. So it's, it's one of those things where, you know, I tell my clients like, you know, in my professional opinion, if you, they don't want to do a new contract, that's fine, but at least do a contract attend. And that shows what you've already paid. What, what protects you? Because I had the new contract, they sent them didn't even show that they had to pay a new deposit. Like, no, no, no. It's okay. Oh, oops. You have to pay another deposit. And so it's just, that's something, all vendors who take a look at.

(00:57:15):

Yeah. My favorite interaction, we had a, the photographer had posted on Facebook and said you know, something came up about DePaul or re you know, rescheduled fees and stuff. And she was like, well, how, how do you guys do that? How do you enforce that? And I said, well, cause it was in the contract. That's how, that's how he does not, that's not something that you I've seen quite a few funny you know, like the, Oh, I think I'm going to charge him a, you know, a 50% additional retain or whatever. You're like, Oh, okay. Like a little, you can let me know how that, let me know how that's going to go. I, that sounds, you know, it is interesting. I'm hearing, like you said, just the contracts and stuff that haven't been in place.

(00:57:51):

I think what I am saying, I was just going to chime in. Nobody tapped on is people are updating. Maybe they do, or they don't have a reschedule fee, but they're like I think it's a lot of hair and makeup. It's 20, 21 rates that they're requiring once you move to bump up to that. So they might not be doing a reschedule fee, but they're saying it needs to be 20, 21 rates. But I agree. I think it's contracts are really what ultimately we all have to look to and it's making sure every vendor contract is says all the details. And I think as planners, I mean, we do, I think, well, that's why ours are so long because we have seen so many contracts over the years. We're like, Oh, we're adding that, Oh, our contract needs to be changed. So I think as a planner, we have an extraordinarily long contract, whereas others are one page or half a page, which scares the bejesus out of me.

(00:58:41):

I was laughing when Jen said, you know, you don't want to close each contract. And I'm like, well, my, my contract is 12 pages. Yeah,

(00:58:57):

No, I always laugh when I, ours is you know, it's gotten longer over the years. So I do, I always laugh when I sound like the DocuSign, then they're like, you know 10 Oh one, whoever viewed it, 10 of three, they signed it. And I'm like, wow, that was really fast

(00:59:12):

Flip side of this too, is clients are not reading through maybe as much as they should. And then surprised later on when these mystery feasts pop up that were actually never mysterious

(00:59:21):

To begin with. So

(00:59:24):

Th this has been great. You guys have been so wonderful with all your time. I don't want to hold you all day. I'm sure we could talk for many, many hours on this. Is there anything else? You know, we got a lot of questions. I think we touched on a lot of topics. Anything else in particular that you thought that maybe I was a dummy and didn't ask about so far?

(00:59:44):

[Inaudible] No, I get everything. I think we killed it. One quick thing.

(00:59:50):

I think for those vendors that are the first to go through with weddings this year, I would just love for vendors to share more about that experience, how it was, I think since we are all trying to kind of figure this out together and see what's working, what's not, let's leverage each other, like, you know, more brainpower the better. And I would just hope to see a lot of people sharing with the community around those experiences and how it goes. Cause I think I can speak for all of us. We are so excited for the weddings that are going to happen this year and celebrating. And it'll be fun to also cheer on and encourage the vendors that do get to participate in some of those celebrations this year.

(01:00:33):

No, absolutely. I mean, I think if anything, and I've talked about this on our other podcast too, I think if if nothing else from this we have gotten a lot better at communicating with our clients right. And communicating with each other. You know, and, and not that there's been horrible things that have come across from help from all of this, but if there's one benefit, I do think it's that. Right. And I think I've always made the joke that you know, I think we are in a really unique industry where I don't think you would, you know, text or call your plumber at 11 o'clock at night asking, you know, a question about whatever. But I do think, and I'm sure you guys have all had calls and emails and texts at all hours of the day. And that just proves how different, the relationship that we have with our clients. And I do think that that's really cool to see, so,

(01:01:18):

Yeah, sorry, sorry. I would piggyback onto what Jen said. Luckily within Seattle we are a very, very collaborative community. We don't have a lot of cat fights. We don't have a lot of competition with each other. We are very community based. So I think as a vendor team that really helps, but couple on the client side, you need to know like, we, we genuinely care about you like this. We would not be in this job if we, if we didn't like, we're certainly not in it for the money we're in it because we really care about being a part of your celebration and a part of your day. So on the flip side, I would ask that as we're advocating for you and as all of our council members and talking to the health departments, please help us to do the same because you're going to be a louder voice in some ways than we are. Yes, it's our livelihoods. So that's what they're seeing from our perspective, but from a client perspective, I think it's imperative that they hear from you in the three big counties, especially that we want to have our wedding. We are having to postpone. We're having to look at everybody's travel plans. We're having to look at the different hotels they need to hear from you just as badly as they need to hear from us.

(01:02:35):

Yeah. And I think Rebecca kind of took some of what I will, not in a bad way, but it says what I was gonna say, but I know a lot of this topic and what our discussion was more heavy, but I think ultimately like none of us, no vendor likes to look at our fine tools that are, you know, like with you know, the contracts and really go over them. And that's all we're talking about. I think these last few months is all the nitty gritty and like, I like details and everything, but I like the fun details we were talking about, you know, your guests book and why we have this meaningful guests book. So ultimately that's what we'd all rather be talking about. We, our job, we really do not want to be doing all the contracts. We want to be doing the fun thing. So I think that's what of this topic. And the last few months have been really hard for everyone, but we just want, you know, the light at the end of the tunnel, let's talk about all the happy things.

(01:03:24):

Yeah, absolutely. It's been a, yeah, it's definitely been an interesting time and a, this whole, you know, the waiting game and like you said, especially now where we're getting into the time where we would be having a lot of weddings I think is, is probably the most challenging, you know like March is a pretty easy month for best made videos. And so I think, you know, as we get into may and, and I mean, it's like June now. It's crazy. So yeah, it's interesting.

(01:03:49):

Well, good. Well, thank you guys so much again for coming on this kind of inaugural episode of our new podcast Best Made Weddings®. It really means a lot that I asked all of you guys and everyone said yes, and you were all my first choices. And so that means a lot that everyone came on and to share some knowledge and hopefully we can continue to to do this and you know, gets a lots of topics, you know, hopefully moving into more positive things, kind of in the future as we go. But right now, you know, we, we need to touch on things that are you know, front of mine, then that's what it is. If you have a question, you know, for an upcoming episode you can go to www.bestmadevideos.com/survey. And I have a nice you can go by vendor type and ask questions and hopefully we can start getting some more topics, but we do have a five or six episodes kind of lined up now with guests talking about venues and live streaming and, you know, DJs and what is that going to look like? So lots of, I think, good topics I'm gonna link everyone's, you know, websites and things all that information and shout out. So is there anything else before I let you guys go?

(01:04:54):

Thank you.

(01:04:57):

Yeah.

(01:04:57):

Perfect. Well, thanks again, you guys. And hopefully everyone stays safe and thanks again.

(01:05:02):

Thank you.

Episode 0 -

(00:07):

Hey everybody, welcome to Best Made Weddings®, a wedding planning podcast brought to you by Best Made Videos´®. I wanted to come on here today and help establish the podcast feed and fill you guys in on a little bit about what's going on with this new podcast and what to expect in the future. We are approaching year three of our Get to Know Your Wedding Pro® podcast, which has been a great way for us to connect with local wedding vendors in the Seattle area, the Portland area, the entire Pacific Northwest in fact. And it's been really great getting to hear new voices and learn new stories and get insights into all the different wedding vendors that we like to work with. And I was trying to figure out a way to grow the podcast and make it more accessible to everyone, whether they're wanting to learn more about other vendors or if they have specific questions related to videography or florals or you know, invitations or whatever.

(01:18):

And so I thought about starting a sister brand to our Get to Know Your Wedding Pro® podcast called the Best Made Weddings® podcast. And I think it's going to be a really fun and fluid way to get people involved in the podcast, not only past guests that we've had that, you know, maybe people want to hear from. Again, you know, we've had lots of wonderful vendors on in the past that you always kind of feel like once they've told their story on the Get to Know Your Wedding Pro® podcast that you know, there really isn't much of a need to have them come on again even though we want to hear from them. And so the Best Made Weddings®, podcasts is going to be really great because I want to be able to bring on past guests, you know, that we enjoy that have tons and tons of information and knowledge to share.

(02:10):

And what I'm, my goal is at least primarily in the beginning, is to start fielding questions from members of the wedding community and whether that's people that are currently planning the wedding or people that have planned the wedding in the past. Or if you're a wedding vendor and you have questions about another vendor type. So let's say I'm a videographer and I wanted to know, Hey, what's the deal with florals and when, when is the best time for them to come to a wedding? And how can we help kind of work through the timeline to make sure that you have the time that you need and we have the time or, or whatever. If you're a, you know, a past wedding if you were someone planning the wedding and you say, Hey, you know what about DJs just want to have an iPod, you know, play at our wedding, whether, what do people think about that?

(03:04):

And so I want to be able to gather lots of different questions related to a variety of vendor types, everything from alterations to dresses to honeymoons to, you know, renting hotel suites to, you know, bakers and cakes and donuts and all sorts of things. And so I've put together a nice little easy survey. If you go to www.bestmadevideos.com/survey you can go there as many times as you want and submit as many different questions as you would like. And you just go through and select the vendor category that you have a question about and you're able to put your name if you want, and then submit the question. And what I want to do is I want to start collecting these questions and seeing where the interest in our community lies. You know, whether people want to hear about, do we have lots of questions about bartending services?

(04:02):

Are there lots of questions about, you know, calligraphy or invitations. I know right now with save the dates and things, there's a lot of questions about, you know, having to reschedule your wedding and how do we handle that with RSVP cards and what should I do about, you know, adjusting my guest list or whatever. And so I want to be able to start cultivating these questions and then putting together a round table, you know, panels of, of the similar vendor type to, you know, answer and kind of go through. And in real talk, I want to really focus on not really sugar coating. I think it's fair to say that people know me as somewhat of an outspoken and pretty honest voice for what I do. And I want to people to know that when they're listening to this podcast that they can expect the same, you know, open and honest feedback from lots of vendors, whether that's a wedding planner or coordinator or a venue owner or you know, whatever that case may be.

(05:06):

And so I want to go on and assemble these panels and we're going to do this hopefully on a weekly basis. You know, it, if we have insightful conversations, maybe we could stretch out those episodes over the course of a week or two weeks to really maximize the information and the content that we're getting out. But I wanted to assemble, you know, vendors have a like mind of a similar category. Well, I guess not in a like-mind of a, of a like profession and you know, maybe different opinions. And I want to get everybody on and be able to answer those questions. And so we're going to start assembling questions. And then when we know certain vendor types are going to be coming up, we'll you know, look for specific questions from that type and we can even, you know, reach out to people and you know, try to have more submissions, you know, related to whatever category is coming up.

(06:00):

That next week on the podcast. And I just think this is going to be a nice kind of sister brand kind of associated podcast with the Get to Know Your Wedding Pro® podcast. I still obviously want to get to know new talented wedding vendors each week and I think that will be a great kind of entry-level to get to know people and know what they're all about and then we could welcome them on to this Best Made Weddings® podcast to help answer your questions as things arise. I also think that this is going to be a fun podcast because we can just be a little more fluid with it as well. And you know, if there's a topic that's in mind, like you know, obviously right now with you know, the pandemic and everything going on, but if there's, you know, an upcoming wedding show or if there's something that's really trending in the news, you know, we can bring on some people as well or, or maybe start incorporating some fun, you know, guests, co-hosts or whatever to kind of help tackle subjects as they come.

(07:00):

So it's not necessarily just learning the backstory of a new wedding vendor each week, which I do still think it's an incredibly valuable resource. But I think this is just that next logical step as we enter year three of it, Get to Know Your Wedding Pro® podcast to kind of start branching out and really building this community and you know, just really wanting to bring more value not only to the wedding vendors that I know and love so well, but also to, you know, people that have been planning weddings in the past that once you plan a wedding in the future or are currently planning the wedding. And I think there's a lot of information out there and I think that this is a nice kind of accessible way. If you have a question, you're, you know, you're afraid to ask, you can go on, you know, fill out the survey, best made videos.com/survey and you know, feel free to leave your name or not.

(07:56):

And, and there's no you know, there's no shame, right? People can ask the questions they want. If you're a vendor, like I said, and you have questions about other vendors that you always wanted to know, I want this to be a nice open line of communication and I think it's going to be a really fun experiment. And I want to just thank everyone for all of your love and support over the last two years, entering three years of the Get to Know Your Wedding Pro® podcast and we'll see where this goes in the future. So I just kinda wanted to get in here today. This is kind of episode zero. Really establish the podcast feed, get this sent out to iTunes and Spotify and all the other podcasts feeds that we are in with our current podcast and I'll be back soon to keep you updated on next steps of what's going on with the podcast.

(08:48):

But in the meantime feel free to email me, reid@bestmadevideos.com if you have any questions, comments, if you're interested in coming on this podcast or our, Get to Know Your Wedding Pro® podcast. And again, you can go to www.bestmadevideos.com/survey and that's your direct link that's going to get you to the questionnaire to be able to submit questions for the Best Made Weddings® podcast. Thanks again and be sure to check back soon for another episode. This has been Best Made Weddings® check back next week for another episode and still working on that outro.